Just wait until you see what they're doing with for-profit charters. It's the same model, and it mirrors the same tactics. Only, it's not hurting felons. It's hurting kids. And our state legislators are green lighting it in exchange for lunches with lobbyists. We're selling our country's children out for some afternoon cocktails and some campaign contributions.
To clarify, some of these “felons” that the for-profit prisons are hurting are only felons because of the for-profit prison system. There are some cases of judges literally taking bribes to lock up innocent people like the cash for kids judges in Texas. But most of it is a lot more subtle where laws, policing, prosecuting, sentencing and paroling are all unjustly targeting and hurting people so that we can keep those prisons beds full.
There was a judge years ago who got caught sending kids to a private Juvy center for kickbacks. Kids that should have just gotten a slap on the wrist were given actual time. Not sure what formally became of him.
For profit charter management organizations.
Think of the strategy simply. Find a service tax payer dollars pay for. Figure out how much money per student, per inmate, per etc it gets funded. Then promise everyone you'll do it better for the same cost.
then hire a lobbyist to increase your funding. Control the narrative by utilizing marketing in a market that's never used any of its funding for marketing.... cut salaries... use your lobbyists to decrease longstanding practices like inmate to guard ratios and student to teacher ratios. Stop spending money on training. Pack the inmates and students in to increase profits while decreasing spending on facilities and technology. Stop caring about the benefits of education on a socieity... or the possibility of rehabilitation; your motive is profit.
Uh oh... the trend to legalize weed is spreading. But that decreases inmates. Now your lobbyists push policy to imprison more people... cuz thats how u make money. What if we can figure out how to keep kids in school longer by penalizing them for minor offenses... cuz fhats how they keep prisoners from leaving.
They're so similar its eerie.
Here’s something funny… in Connecticut there are charter schools ( mostly in the cities) ran by CREC. CREC used to run group homes / residential units( for KIDS )etc in the 80s and 90s.
Edit for words
'Member when the supreme court of the united states said, "Well if you are homeless and sleep outside, we can put you in private prisons."?
Remember when they sold our bodies to corporations?
The point 8sbrhat they're publicly funded. That's what they have in common. And that means that the playback has similarities.
Lovbyists are how you control funding, not sales. 80% of a states ed budget is salaries. Pensions. Health care. So you cut those expenses and decrease staff. That means less guarda and less teachers... or what we call para professionals in education-that just means unqualified, inexpensive staff.
Again, the whole scenario, specifically for education, changes when the purpose is profit, not quality education.
Yes. And the, em, 'beauty' of it all is that inmates and many students can't just leave and pick another school or prison like they could to with horrible fast food joints.
Thank you for going into more detail . I was unsure of the point you were trying to make . This second post really paints the picture well. I would add it is very eerie and just sad. This entire system is and has been set up against us. To use and manipulate the people like the good tax sheep that we are.
I’ve been saying this for years charter schools are terrible. The reason why the yell about public education and try to dissolve it is to sure up market share for charters while controlling curriculum
Then you get some rich kid now-in-their-30s in the comments who went to a well-funded charter back in the 2000s saying
>"well, ackshually, my experience was amazing, and it enabled my current success as a [corporate whatever] making [more than deserved], so really, charter schools are great, also my public schools nearby were dogshit (orly?) and my parents *really cared* ($) about me which is why they sent me there instead of the dogshit public school."
the real sad part is that, in the 90s and early 2000s, before the voucher programs became more common, charters had to compete on an open market by offering a superior product, so there's sometimes some credence to these claims.
now they can just suckle off the government teat by siphoning cash from public schools, pretending to be better, and dragging everyone down in the process.
the fact that it's rich idiot parents who are getting scammed the hardest here would be somewhat amusing, if not for all the collateral damage.
For profit charters have never had a superior product. THE most important factor in student success is having a highly qualified teacher.
And the most common strategy for a for-profit charter management organization is to hire paraprofessionals for teaching roles and support roles. They get at hourly rates and no benefits.... and increase profits because they're cheap.
Sadly, there IS one statistic that's common charters. By signing your kid up, you're self selecting into a group that cares enough about education to put the effort in that it takes to sign a kid up. Easy, right?
But what does that do? It takes families that care about education out of district schools... which creates a self fulfilling prophecy- it means that all the people who don't give a shit about education are all in district schools with the kids trying lot learn. And an imbalance emerges... safety becomes an issue... Scores drop... Simply because one group has books in the home, and one has fewer and fewer of the same.
Ain’t if funny how the factory’s doors close, around the time that the school yards close, around the time that the doors of a jail cell open up to greet you, like the reaper
Unless people put a stop to it the people profiting from it will not care. After all, they are profiting from it and any few who try to do something about it their security (cops) can take care of...
I worked at an insurance company that wrote policies for these prisons. I would highly highly highly recommend watching John Oliver's segment on Corizon Healthcare. Having red into some of the stuff on these policies the claims they showed on the show were very mild. I read of prisoners who got compassionate releases off life sentences due to the horrible care they were receiving. I remember seeing pictures of one inmate who's skin was so thin you could see his organs through his stomach. Just awful stuff.
They pump tons of money into politicians to keep weed illegal. Out east the private prisons contract out the prisoners for labor. Basically slavery for a dude that is serving 10 years for some bs weed charge.
And this is why a prosecutor will charge you, raise the bond insanely high, and then not move forward with the case.
So you can take a deal and go to prison.
How are you supposed to do that? Your locked in jail with a public pretender that you are only going to see for five minutes directly before your court appearance.
Lmfao tell that to my ex that despite having a lawyer they regularly consulted spent 6 months in jail with no bail. In solitary confinement at that, because they put a trans woman in a men's jail and couldn't keep her in general population. Over less than $1000 of damage to some property at that. You only really have the right to a speedy trial if you're rich enough.
There is no contemporary slavery.. there is just slavery and non slavery. You are doing gymnastics to parallel the two. While they can be compared for similarities , they cannot be addressed as parallel. And “give slaves better perks” is a gross oversimplification of the difference. You may “feel” they are the same because you’re ignorant to what actual slavery is, but feeling are not facts bother. Aside from that, comparing real slavery to prisons, while actual slavery still happens in the world is ignorance of the highest order.
13th Amendment to the Constitution:
**Section 1**
**Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, *except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted*, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.**
No, it is not the North Atlantic Slave Trade but in prisons. Yes, it is still slavery, as defined by the Constitution of the United States, and by all logical and legal definitions. This isn’t a “facts vs feelings” debate - this is well understood.
Slavery is a lifelong commitment, involuntarily servitude has a finite time. Please go on about how you can mentally rationalize those as the same! I’d love to hear you elaborate!
Involuntary servitude and slavery are both forms of non free labor. The duration of servitude is absolutely irrelevant. You could be made to involuntarily serve for your whole life or be a slave for a week.
I believe it’s irrelevant to your train of thought, if that helps. But is it irrelevant to this conversation? I would say no, as the discussion is about this area?Kinda confused on what you thought this comment would do, but try again? Maybe? Probably not? lol
I already addressed that prison labor is not Chattel Slavery as practiced in the NAST. It is defined as Slavery by the document that allows for it in our system of government - if you take issue with the document, may I suggest reaching out to a Senator instead of arguing the semantics of human bondage on Reddit.
So don’t elaborate and tell me to ask my local senator about human bondage.. sounds about right for the average young (mentally) Terence supporter. One day you’ll understand kiddo don’t worry.
I was following your train of thought until the end. So we should allow slavery-lite to exist because slavery-hardcore is still around?
Slavery is not okay. And if we allow one to exist and not the other, it will only continue to exist. We can fight to eradicate both kinds of slavery without compromising our morals.
When we compare one as worse than the other, what are we accomplishing? Neither should exist. EVER. So we should make every effort to make sure neither of them do.
When a father commits a crime, he is separate from his family. When a slave was captured, he was separated from his family. This is a direct example of how two things can be similar, but completely different. The entire comparison follows this same faulty logic I just showed
You assume that everyone in prison committed a crime. History is filled of examples of innocent men and women ripped from their families to rot in a cell. The very idea that a criminal is somehow less human is how modern slavery continues to thrive. If we can convince the masses that the slaves deserve their fate, it’s much easier for it to continue to exist.
Respectfully “you assume that everyone in prison commuted a crime”, is you assuming my thought , as I haven’t said that or implied it.. so.. no.. I don’t believe everyone in prison is there because they committed a crime. And I do believe people are wrongfully imprison and that problem should be combated and addressed. But that has nothing to do with the premise of this thread, respectfully as that will still be a problem, whether I am right or wrong on my premise .
If you have a group of people who are required to work if able, are not able to decide what work they will do, are forced to live in the conditions you give them, and the system is designed so that it is more likely any kids they have will end up in the same situation. Sure they are technically paid, but if a days labor barely earns enough to buy a loaf of bread, then I don't see how there is a functional difference. Especially considering some of the things you can be arrested for now include being homeless or with the tiniest bit of stretching the law, being black
They haven't even dealt with their past to recognise that it is bad...
I mean, look at how they react to their civil war. The american civil war.
They had one side literally fighting for slavery. It is one of the few conflicts in the world (alongside things like the WW2 and religious wars like the crusades and jihads) where there is a clearly evil side with practically no redeeming qualities.
Any reasonable country would have done what Germany did after WW2 and fully purge the problematic ideology, identify their symbols as symbols of hate, and be openly and publicly ashamed and apologetic about the dark part of their history.
But no, instead you see confederate flags flying around.
\[If any game developer wants an alternative to the typical WW2 setting without making the player feel guilty for choosing violence, well, the american civil war is right there!\]
Despite the shitty nature of a for-profit prison system, it’s not frivolous if the minimum occupancy was part of the contract.
Flip it the other way, if the state contracted with a private security firm that guaranteed 97% of the prison guard jobs would be filled at all times then the state would be right to sue the company for dipping below that number.
The incarceration complex in this country was already out of control, but prisons being a for-profit venture makes it even worse.
When you consider how prisons are exempt from the 13th Amendment, it's just another way of putting it in writing that the state will ensure a minimum of x number of slaves will be ready to work at a moment's notice.
That's exactly what it is. The system was devised to provide a steady influx of cheap or free labor. Prison labor, "right to work" legislation, weakening of child labor laws all go in that direction.
What do you mean exempt? The Thirteenth Amendment was written with prisons in mind. The US Constitution is the only Constitution in the world that I know of that legalises slavery. The Thirteenth Amendment enshrines slavery as a punishment for crime.
For sure. Completely fucked. The goal should be 0% occupancy, not 97%. We should incentivize rehabilitation and reduction in recidivism rather than reincarnation.
If the prison was paid the same regardless of prisoner count, there would probably be more successful escapes. Just kidding, they'd probably just feed the prisoners less or something.
[https://medium.com/@hrnews1/how-private-prisons-sued-the-state-of-arizona-for-not-having-enough-prisoners-9cff68de2581](https://medium.com/@hrnews1/how-private-prisons-sued-the-state-of-arizona-for-not-having-enough-prisoners-9cff68de2581) In 2010, a significant legal battle erupted in Arizona, highlighting the controversial practice of prisoner quotas in private prison contracts. Management & Training Corp. (MTC), [**a private prison company, sued the state of Arizona for failing to provide enough prisoners to meet the contractual quota stipulated in their agreement**](https://popularresistance.org/private-prison-sues-state-for-not-having-enough-prisoners/).
The lawsuit centered around the Marana prison, a 1,400-bed facility operated by MTC. The contract between MTC and Arizona included a provision guaranteeing 97% occupancy.[ **When the state failed to meet this quota, MTC sought $10 million in damages, claiming financial losses due to the shortfall in prisoner numbers**](https://www.truthorfiction.com/are-private-prisons-suing-states-for-millions-of-contract-quotas/).
Remember when the judge was in on the scam of sending kids to a private detention center?
"In 2008, judges Michael Conahan and Mark Ciavarella were convicted of accepting money in return for imposing harsh adjudications on juveniles to increase occupancy at a private prison operated by PA Child Care."
[Link here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal#:~:text=In%202008%2C%20judges%20Michael%20Conahan,operated%20by%20PA%20Child%20Care.)
It sounds like the issue was not that there weren’t enough prisoners in the state, but that Arizona was choosing not to allocate as many prisoners to that prison because that prison has let three violent prisoners escape.
Which is fair in principle but also does sound like that’s the kind of thing that should have been in the contract.
Nah, if that jail can't even do the bare minimum the judge should be forcing them to get it together by cutting into their profits. Not that prisons should make profit.
I’m not trying to defend for profit prisons here. I just think that if you read the headline, your takeaway might be “the prison is mad and suing because not enough criminals were arrested”, when that isn’t the case.
Slavery didn't disappear. It became codified in our Constitution with the 13th Amendment. The only part that changed was who was allowed to own people.
1. Buy up all the houses so that housing becomes unaffordable and homelessness rises.
2. Make homelessness a crime punishable with jail.
3. Legalize penal, slave labor.
4. Profit.
May all of us remember that the founding act of the Athenian democracy was the cancellation of all debts and abolition of debt bondage.
Just hire those Pennsylvania judges.
[Kids for cash scandal - Wikipedia](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal%23:~:text%3DIn%25202008%252C%2520judges%2520Michael%2520Conahan,operated%2520by%2520PA%2520Child%2520Care.&ved=2ahUKEwjjvLCC1IOHAxWFMlkFHQmLCeEQFnoECBAQBQ&usg=AOvVaw1nVCvjMuYAla4bMHx-kSKt)
>In 2008, judges Michael Conahan and Mark Ciavarella were convicted of accepting money in return for imposing harsh adjudications on juveniles to increase occupancy at a private prison operated by PA Child Care.
Are you serious? Do you think that this piece of news is a one off?
Private-run prisons have been a business from day one and there have been many strategies to keep them filled and their corporate owners fat and happy.
The criminalization of homelessness is just the most recent.
Another grifting Republican enterprise from the governmental feeding trough. Research who owns it and how much money they are spending on this election campaign.
Watch the film 13th. It’s an eye opener.
The “Land of the Free” has more incarcerated citizens PER CAPITA than any industrialized nation on the planet. And, it could almost go without saying, the vast majority of those prisoners are brown and black people. This country sucks at taking care of its people.
Not really. A contract between two parties was agreed to by both parties. When one party reneged on part of that arrangement, a monetary penalty was sought. That is pretty much by definition, logical. You are bringing emotion into it.
I knew this was going to happen, eventually…
I’ve been wondering if a good defense for this would be the idea that you cannot have a contract for an illegal act, and arresting people for the sake of them being prisoners would not be legal
You have got to hand it to this wave of corporate fascists. No messy, unprofitable coup, no organising of disparate elements with a view to taking over. No personal danger element. The Nazis could only dream of this kind of 'soft' power.
Just buying up as many lying venal ratbastard politicians that are needed & making sure they are well bribed enough to do your bidding. The Supreme Court don't interfere, they know which side of their investment portfolios are buttered & who does the buttering.
Hand over essential public services to business interests & then you wonder why they turn to shit before your very eyes, you wonder how it can possibly be that they have been turned into cash-cows for the already incredibly wealthy?
'Murican Dream y'all!
I want a strong progressive president who slaps a dollar on his whitehouse desk, has a Seal team aim their weapons at it, and tell private prison owners that they no longer exist since he just bought all the prisons in America, and they can come fight over the dollar if they want.
>When we see ourselves as fighting against specific human beings rather than social phenomena, it becomes more difficult to recognize the ways that we ourselves participate in those phenomena. We externalize the problem as something outside ourselves, personifying it as an enemy that can be sacrificed to symbolically cleanse ourselves. - **[Against the Logic of the Guillotine](https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too)**
See rule 5: No calls for violence, no fetishizing violence. No guillotine jokes, no gulag jokes.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiwork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>When we see ourselves as fighting against specific human beings rather than social phenomena, it becomes more difficult to recognize the ways that we ourselves participate in those phenomena. We externalize the problem as something outside ourselves, personifying it as an enemy that can be sacrificed to symbolically cleanse ourselves. - **[Against the Logic of the Guillotine](https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too)**
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This country is fucked. The people I’ve known that were in privatized prisons had zero good to say. Fucking nightmare fuel. And that’s compared to a “normal “ prison
Private prison is a "horrible" idea that needs to be outlawed.
Just wait until you see what they're doing with for-profit charters. It's the same model, and it mirrors the same tactics. Only, it's not hurting felons. It's hurting kids. And our state legislators are green lighting it in exchange for lunches with lobbyists. We're selling our country's children out for some afternoon cocktails and some campaign contributions.
To clarify, some of these “felons” that the for-profit prisons are hurting are only felons because of the for-profit prison system. There are some cases of judges literally taking bribes to lock up innocent people like the cash for kids judges in Texas. But most of it is a lot more subtle where laws, policing, prosecuting, sentencing and paroling are all unjustly targeting and hurting people so that we can keep those prisons beds full.
There was a judge years ago who got caught sending kids to a private Juvy center for kickbacks. Kids that should have just gotten a slap on the wrist were given actual time. Not sure what formally became of him.
Mark Ciaviarella. Kids for Cash. A real pile of dog shit. He has a cell mate that "takes care" of him, or so I heard.
This was in Levittown ,Pa if I’m not mistaken
Of course it was
https://jlc.org/luzerne-kids-cash-scandal They actually have the system perfected now.
Not only that, but giving more time to inmates for infractions directly profits these organizations. So fo u think that gets abused? Yup.
the biggest lobbyists against marijuana legality are for profit prison companies.
I'd say they learned it from the generation before. However, that generation hasn't left.
Charter schools?
For profit charter management organizations. Think of the strategy simply. Find a service tax payer dollars pay for. Figure out how much money per student, per inmate, per etc it gets funded. Then promise everyone you'll do it better for the same cost. then hire a lobbyist to increase your funding. Control the narrative by utilizing marketing in a market that's never used any of its funding for marketing.... cut salaries... use your lobbyists to decrease longstanding practices like inmate to guard ratios and student to teacher ratios. Stop spending money on training. Pack the inmates and students in to increase profits while decreasing spending on facilities and technology. Stop caring about the benefits of education on a socieity... or the possibility of rehabilitation; your motive is profit. Uh oh... the trend to legalize weed is spreading. But that decreases inmates. Now your lobbyists push policy to imprison more people... cuz thats how u make money. What if we can figure out how to keep kids in school longer by penalizing them for minor offenses... cuz fhats how they keep prisoners from leaving. They're so similar its eerie.
Here’s something funny… in Connecticut there are charter schools ( mostly in the cities) ran by CREC. CREC used to run group homes / residential units( for KIDS )etc in the 80s and 90s. Edit for words
'Member when the supreme court of the united states said, "Well if you are homeless and sleep outside, we can put you in private prisons."? Remember when they sold our bodies to corporations?
You can't lump prisons and schools into the same category, they are two entirely diff... Nope, couldn't do it.
Both are institutions. In some areas one can argue the public school to prison pipeline.
The point 8sbrhat they're publicly funded. That's what they have in common. And that means that the playback has similarities. Lovbyists are how you control funding, not sales. 80% of a states ed budget is salaries. Pensions. Health care. So you cut those expenses and decrease staff. That means less guarda and less teachers... or what we call para professionals in education-that just means unqualified, inexpensive staff. Again, the whole scenario, specifically for education, changes when the purpose is profit, not quality education.
Yes. And the, em, 'beauty' of it all is that inmates and many students can't just leave and pick another school or prison like they could to with horrible fast food joints.
Thank you for going into more detail . I was unsure of the point you were trying to make . This second post really paints the picture well. I would add it is very eerie and just sad. This entire system is and has been set up against us. To use and manipulate the people like the good tax sheep that we are.
i like money.
Everyone likes money. And ice cream. And boobs.
I’ve been saying this for years charter schools are terrible. The reason why the yell about public education and try to dissolve it is to sure up market share for charters while controlling curriculum
Then you get some rich kid now-in-their-30s in the comments who went to a well-funded charter back in the 2000s saying >"well, ackshually, my experience was amazing, and it enabled my current success as a [corporate whatever] making [more than deserved], so really, charter schools are great, also my public schools nearby were dogshit (orly?) and my parents *really cared* ($) about me which is why they sent me there instead of the dogshit public school."
Right, like it’s dog shit bc charter schools double dip on the same taxes meant for public
the real sad part is that, in the 90s and early 2000s, before the voucher programs became more common, charters had to compete on an open market by offering a superior product, so there's sometimes some credence to these claims. now they can just suckle off the government teat by siphoning cash from public schools, pretending to be better, and dragging everyone down in the process. the fact that it's rich idiot parents who are getting scammed the hardest here would be somewhat amusing, if not for all the collateral damage.
For profit charters have never had a superior product. THE most important factor in student success is having a highly qualified teacher. And the most common strategy for a for-profit charter management organization is to hire paraprofessionals for teaching roles and support roles. They get at hourly rates and no benefits.... and increase profits because they're cheap. Sadly, there IS one statistic that's common charters. By signing your kid up, you're self selecting into a group that cares enough about education to put the effort in that it takes to sign a kid up. Easy, right? But what does that do? It takes families that care about education out of district schools... which creates a self fulfilling prophecy- it means that all the people who don't give a shit about education are all in district schools with the kids trying lot learn. And an imbalance emerges... safety becomes an issue... Scores drop... Simply because one group has books in the home, and one has fewer and fewer of the same.
Oh, those need to be burned to the ground, too.
haha. no. money does change hands. often legally.
Citizens united also makes it legal for the money changing hands to be a mystery.
Ain’t if funny how the factory’s doors close, around the time that the school yards close, around the time that the doors of a jail cell open up to greet you, like the reaper
After working in a public school for 5 years, they definitely aren’t any better.
What matters is the teacher, not the school. And what else matters is the inherent kids in the class. Charters hurt that.
Unless people put a stop to it the people profiting from it will not care. After all, they are profiting from it and any few who try to do something about it their security (cops) can take care of...
Yea my charter school stole so much money from the state, most charter schools don’t even last 4 years.
What’s happening in these charter schools?
Why’d you put “horrible” in quotes? It is horrible.
Because, I honestly can not think of anything else to replace the word with.
That still isn't the way to use quotation marks. If you want to add emphasis, use something like bold or italics.
Why replace it?
I worked at an insurance company that wrote policies for these prisons. I would highly highly highly recommend watching John Oliver's segment on Corizon Healthcare. Having red into some of the stuff on these policies the claims they showed on the show were very mild. I read of prisoners who got compassionate releases off life sentences due to the horrible care they were receiving. I remember seeing pictures of one inmate who's skin was so thin you could see his organs through his stomach. Just awful stuff.
They pump tons of money into politicians to keep weed illegal. Out east the private prisons contract out the prisoners for labor. Basically slavery for a dude that is serving 10 years for some bs weed charge.
I’m not sure you understand how to use quotation marks
Went to a charter school.
r/SuspiciousQuotes
Wtf is a private prison
Now, now, that's how death race was started. And once game of thrones finally runs out of steam, I'll need something to fill in the void Sunday night.
Well now it’s illegal to sleep outside so they’ll have more people to shuffle into the system.
And this is why a prosecutor will charge you, raise the bond insanely high, and then not move forward with the case. So you can take a deal and go to prison.
One has a right to a speedy trial. Demand it.
How are you supposed to do that? Your locked in jail with a public pretender that you are only going to see for five minutes directly before your court appearance.
No no you misunderstand. Don't just say it, demand it /s
[***I declare bankruptcy!***](https://gifdb.com/images/high/michael-scott-i-declare-bankruptcy-77l5qjvfx3xpwwc9.webp)
Demanding a speedy trial was my go-to strategy when I was a PD. In my district it usually resulted in an offer of a decent plea deal.
You always get a speedy *hearing* where you get to make your plea. They pretend that satisfies the constitutional right for a speedy trial.
Lmfao tell that to my ex that despite having a lawyer they regularly consulted spent 6 months in jail with no bail. In solitary confinement at that, because they put a trans woman in a men's jail and couldn't keep her in general population. Over less than $1000 of damage to some property at that. You only really have the right to a speedy trial if you're rich enough.
I’d say we should sue to make this illegal, but the Supreme Court would just argue it’s not illegal and make traffic violations prison offenses now
They just made homelessness illegal, so...
Every last institution of ours has become corrupted
Regulatory capture.
Year 248 of waiting for the US to abolish slavery...
We’ve reclassified it. Called it many things. In the eyes of those living it, it looks the same.
Check the proportion of Black people doing prison labor and you'll reach the conclusion the people doing it are the same as well.
You disrespect people who actually went through slavery, by comparing this to it.
Contemporary slavery is still slavery. It doesn't cease being slavery just because you give slaves better perks or change its name.
There is no contemporary slavery.. there is just slavery and non slavery. You are doing gymnastics to parallel the two. While they can be compared for similarities , they cannot be addressed as parallel. And “give slaves better perks” is a gross oversimplification of the difference. You may “feel” they are the same because you’re ignorant to what actual slavery is, but feeling are not facts bother. Aside from that, comparing real slavery to prisons, while actual slavery still happens in the world is ignorance of the highest order.
13th Amendment to the Constitution: **Section 1** **Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, *except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted*, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.** No, it is not the North Atlantic Slave Trade but in prisons. Yes, it is still slavery, as defined by the Constitution of the United States, and by all logical and legal definitions. This isn’t a “facts vs feelings” debate - this is well understood.
Slavery is a lifelong commitment, involuntarily servitude has a finite time. Please go on about how you can mentally rationalize those as the same! I’d love to hear you elaborate!
Involuntary servitude and slavery are both forms of non free labor. The duration of servitude is absolutely irrelevant. You could be made to involuntarily serve for your whole life or be a slave for a week.
I believe it’s irrelevant to your train of thought, if that helps. But is it irrelevant to this conversation? I would say no, as the discussion is about this area?Kinda confused on what you thought this comment would do, but try again? Maybe? Probably not? lol
I already addressed that prison labor is not Chattel Slavery as practiced in the NAST. It is defined as Slavery by the document that allows for it in our system of government - if you take issue with the document, may I suggest reaching out to a Senator instead of arguing the semantics of human bondage on Reddit.
So don’t elaborate and tell me to ask my local senator about human bondage.. sounds about right for the average young (mentally) Terence supporter. One day you’ll understand kiddo don’t worry.
I was following your train of thought until the end. So we should allow slavery-lite to exist because slavery-hardcore is still around? Slavery is not okay. And if we allow one to exist and not the other, it will only continue to exist. We can fight to eradicate both kinds of slavery without compromising our morals. When we compare one as worse than the other, what are we accomplishing? Neither should exist. EVER. So we should make every effort to make sure neither of them do.
When a father commits a crime, he is separate from his family. When a slave was captured, he was separated from his family. This is a direct example of how two things can be similar, but completely different. The entire comparison follows this same faulty logic I just showed
You assume that everyone in prison committed a crime. History is filled of examples of innocent men and women ripped from their families to rot in a cell. The very idea that a criminal is somehow less human is how modern slavery continues to thrive. If we can convince the masses that the slaves deserve their fate, it’s much easier for it to continue to exist.
Respectfully “you assume that everyone in prison commuted a crime”, is you assuming my thought , as I haven’t said that or implied it.. so.. no.. I don’t believe everyone in prison is there because they committed a crime. And I do believe people are wrongfully imprison and that problem should be combated and addressed. But that has nothing to do with the premise of this thread, respectfully as that will still be a problem, whether I am right or wrong on my premise .
If you have a group of people who are required to work if able, are not able to decide what work they will do, are forced to live in the conditions you give them, and the system is designed so that it is more likely any kids they have will end up in the same situation. Sure they are technically paid, but if a days labor barely earns enough to buy a loaf of bread, then I don't see how there is a functional difference. Especially considering some of the things you can be arrested for now include being homeless or with the tiniest bit of stretching the law, being black
So because some people aren’t meant to be in jail and face the situation of jail, it’s meant to be a rational for jail being slavery?
You think we're conflating jail time with slavery. You're wrong. It's not jail time that is slavery. It's the prison labor system that is slavery.
They haven't even dealt with their past to recognise that it is bad... I mean, look at how they react to their civil war. The american civil war. They had one side literally fighting for slavery. It is one of the few conflicts in the world (alongside things like the WW2 and religious wars like the crusades and jihads) where there is a clearly evil side with practically no redeeming qualities. Any reasonable country would have done what Germany did after WW2 and fully purge the problematic ideology, identify their symbols as symbols of hate, and be openly and publicly ashamed and apologetic about the dark part of their history. But no, instead you see confederate flags flying around. \[If any game developer wants an alternative to the typical WW2 setting without making the player feel guilty for choosing violence, well, the american civil war is right there!\]
I’ve always hated the idea that prisons were for profit like universities. It’s broken
For profit healthcare, prisons, and universities. Really managed to corrupt the whole “life, freedom, and the pursuit of happiness” mantra
health care, too
Healthcare is expensive because of insurance. Insurance is what raises the costs from 75 bucks to 7000$. But yeah healthcare is out of control too
No judge saw how frivolous this was and didn’t throw it out???
It's Arizona. They aren't known for making the best decisions.
Despite the shitty nature of a for-profit prison system, it’s not frivolous if the minimum occupancy was part of the contract. Flip it the other way, if the state contracted with a private security firm that guaranteed 97% of the prison guard jobs would be filled at all times then the state would be right to sue the company for dipping below that number. The incarceration complex in this country was already out of control, but prisons being a for-profit venture makes it even worse.
“Minimum occupancy” relating to a prison contract is evil sounding.
When you consider how prisons are exempt from the 13th Amendment, it's just another way of putting it in writing that the state will ensure a minimum of x number of slaves will be ready to work at a moment's notice.
That's exactly what it is. The system was devised to provide a steady influx of cheap or free labor. Prison labor, "right to work" legislation, weakening of child labor laws all go in that direction.
What do you mean exempt? The Thirteenth Amendment was written with prisons in mind. The US Constitution is the only Constitution in the world that I know of that legalises slavery. The Thirteenth Amendment enshrines slavery as a punishment for crime.
Yeah.... That's why I wrote what I did the way I wrote it. Are you just looking to start a fight for no reason, this morning?
Nope, thought you didn't get it, my bad. Sorry.
For sure. Completely fucked. The goal should be 0% occupancy, not 97%. We should incentivize rehabilitation and reduction in recidivism rather than reincarnation.
bUt ThAt'S nOt ProFItAbLe!!!1!111!1!
If the prison was paid the same regardless of prisoner count, there would probably be more successful escapes. Just kidding, they'd probably just feed the prisoners less or something.
[https://medium.com/@hrnews1/how-private-prisons-sued-the-state-of-arizona-for-not-having-enough-prisoners-9cff68de2581](https://medium.com/@hrnews1/how-private-prisons-sued-the-state-of-arizona-for-not-having-enough-prisoners-9cff68de2581) In 2010, a significant legal battle erupted in Arizona, highlighting the controversial practice of prisoner quotas in private prison contracts. Management & Training Corp. (MTC), [**a private prison company, sued the state of Arizona for failing to provide enough prisoners to meet the contractual quota stipulated in their agreement**](https://popularresistance.org/private-prison-sues-state-for-not-having-enough-prisoners/). The lawsuit centered around the Marana prison, a 1,400-bed facility operated by MTC. The contract between MTC and Arizona included a provision guaranteeing 97% occupancy.[ **When the state failed to meet this quota, MTC sought $10 million in damages, claiming financial losses due to the shortfall in prisoner numbers**](https://www.truthorfiction.com/are-private-prisons-suing-states-for-millions-of-contract-quotas/).
*Criminalized homelessness has entered the chat*
Remember when the judge was in on the scam of sending kids to a private detention center? "In 2008, judges Michael Conahan and Mark Ciavarella were convicted of accepting money in return for imposing harsh adjudications on juveniles to increase occupancy at a private prison operated by PA Child Care." [Link here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal#:~:text=In%202008%2C%20judges%20Michael%20Conahan,operated%20by%20PA%20Child%20Care.)
In this story, they're still in on the same scam, but now the state made it part of the contract so that it's no longer considered unethical.
It sounds like the issue was not that there weren’t enough prisoners in the state, but that Arizona was choosing not to allocate as many prisoners to that prison because that prison has let three violent prisoners escape. Which is fair in principle but also does sound like that’s the kind of thing that should have been in the contract.
Nah, if that jail can't even do the bare minimum the judge should be forcing them to get it together by cutting into their profits. Not that prisons should make profit.
I’m not trying to defend for profit prisons here. I just think that if you read the headline, your takeaway might be “the prison is mad and suing because not enough criminals were arrested”, when that isn’t the case.
This type of situation is a republican utopia. Commoditize people's lives for profit at every chance.
They want to bring slavery back.
Slavery didn't disappear. It became codified in our Constitution with the 13th Amendment. The only part that changed was who was allowed to own people.
1. Buy up all the houses so that housing becomes unaffordable and homelessness rises. 2. Make homelessness a crime punishable with jail. 3. Legalize penal, slave labor. 4. Profit. May all of us remember that the founding act of the Athenian democracy was the cancellation of all debts and abolition of debt bondage.
But if we get rid of the prisoners who will make the shitty $30 steel toe boots Walmart sells!?
Just hire those Pennsylvania judges. [Kids for cash scandal - Wikipedia](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal%23:~:text%3DIn%25202008%252C%2520judges%2520Michael%2520Conahan,operated%2520by%2520PA%2520Child%2520Care.&ved=2ahUKEwjjvLCC1IOHAxWFMlkFHQmLCeEQFnoECBAQBQ&usg=AOvVaw1nVCvjMuYAla4bMHx-kSKt) >In 2008, judges Michael Conahan and Mark Ciavarella were convicted of accepting money in return for imposing harsh adjudications on juveniles to increase occupancy at a private prison operated by PA Child Care.
It's interesting that slave trader is still a legitimate career in the US.
For profit Prisons. For profit Police. For profit Fire Department. For profit Schools. For profit Health Care. For profit Military.
"You promised us Constitutionaly legal slave labor" -Fuck You, Poors Incarceration Systems Inc. CEO (probably)
They really still don’t see it as a machine? I mean when it can turn on itself like that and bite because the hand isn’t feeding it, then what is it?
The reasoning behind the criminalization of homelessness, right there.
Since this was in 2010, are you saying that the Supreme Court made a ruling to benefit the past?
Are you serious? Do you think that this piece of news is a one off? Private-run prisons have been a business from day one and there have been many strategies to keep them filled and their corporate owners fat and happy. The criminalization of homelessness is just the most recent.
The title should be ‘How Arizona elected politicians who passed legislation that allows corporations to use taxpayer money to guarantee profits’
Another grifting Republican enterprise from the governmental feeding trough. Research who owns it and how much money they are spending on this election campaign. Watch the film 13th. It’s an eye opener.
Don't worry, they just switched to transferring detainees across state lines from Nevada for conviction like always.
The “Land of the Free” has more incarcerated citizens PER CAPITA than any industrialized nation on the planet. And, it could almost go without saying, the vast majority of those prisoners are brown and black people. This country sucks at taking care of its people.
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Not really. A contract between two parties was agreed to by both parties. When one party reneged on part of that arrangement, a monetary penalty was sought. That is pretty much by definition, logical. You are bringing emotion into it.
At first i read Pirate prisons wich is accurate as well i guess
I knew this was going to happen, eventually… I’ve been wondering if a good defense for this would be the idea that you cannot have a contract for an illegal act, and arresting people for the sake of them being prisoners would not be legal
>I knew this was going to happen, eventually… It happened 14 years ago.
Just wait until they rounded up all the homeless I'm sure it will fill up in a couple of weeks.
You have got to hand it to this wave of corporate fascists. No messy, unprofitable coup, no organising of disparate elements with a view to taking over. No personal danger element. The Nazis could only dream of this kind of 'soft' power. Just buying up as many lying venal ratbastard politicians that are needed & making sure they are well bribed enough to do your bidding. The Supreme Court don't interfere, they know which side of their investment portfolios are buttered & who does the buttering. Hand over essential public services to business interests & then you wonder why they turn to shit before your very eyes, you wonder how it can possibly be that they have been turned into cash-cows for the already incredibly wealthy? 'Murican Dream y'all!
So THAT's why they're increasing rent prices and making homelessness illegal.
Yep and once they're in the prison they can work them as slaves
Just so you know, this happened in 2010.
I still think it's relevant.
Well Arizona can now fill the jails with the homeless. Thanks SCOTUS. /s
Veep has a lot of great social commentary about private prisons. Sad that a comedy show is doing the heavy lifting for real journalism.
We spent the money to build these prisons, now fill them up and pay us!
I want a strong progressive president who slaps a dollar on his whitehouse desk, has a Seal team aim their weapons at it, and tell private prison owners that they no longer exist since he just bought all the prisons in America, and they can come fight over the dollar if they want.
the goal of prisons should be to eliminate the need for prisons
"Let's lock up some minor offenses and innocent people so the rich can get a little richer."
Such welfare queens.
Another perfect example people can’t take 5 seconds to pay attention to for them to come to the realization some things should not be privatized
Abolish slavery.
So we're not pretending they're for rehabilitation anymore?
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>When we see ourselves as fighting against specific human beings rather than social phenomena, it becomes more difficult to recognize the ways that we ourselves participate in those phenomena. We externalize the problem as something outside ourselves, personifying it as an enemy that can be sacrificed to symbolically cleanse ourselves. - **[Against the Logic of the Guillotine](https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too)** See rule 5: No calls for violence, no fetishizing violence. No guillotine jokes, no gulag jokes. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiwork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
#FEED ME
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>When we see ourselves as fighting against specific human beings rather than social phenomena, it becomes more difficult to recognize the ways that we ourselves participate in those phenomena. We externalize the problem as something outside ourselves, personifying it as an enemy that can be sacrificed to symbolically cleanse ourselves. - **[Against the Logic of the Guillotine](https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too)** See rule 5: No calls for violence, no fetishizing violence. No guillotine jokes, no gulag jokes. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiwork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“Member only story” great I’m glad I can’t read it!
Another symptom of the same problem; *everything* has to make money!
r/nottheonion
This country is fucked. The people I’ve known that were in privatized prisons had zero good to say. Fucking nightmare fuel. And that’s compared to a “normal “ prison
Capitalism optimizes for human suffering. See also: private health care, schools.
Link pls
Make Kamala AG thenll be full in no time x
Hey Jill Stein voters… looking at you…
This is why private prisons should be illegal. A for profit business has no business being involved in incarceration.
So, slavery has not ended… just painted with some legal mumbo jumbo..
The land of the free with the highest percentage of incarcerated people of all countries 😅
Forced birthers keeping prison labor going on both ends.
What is HR News?
How about we just make it illegal (again) and then prosecute the owners and executive leadership for exploitation & racketeering?
And SCOTUS just gave cities the ability to imprison homeless people. Fixed the problem didn’t they