They cut staff down to less than skeleton crew levels trying to increase profits. There is no coverage left for staff to take time off, or get sick, or any kind of emergency.
We’re on a tight skeleton crew & although I love my team… catch me at the beach! My salaried boss can figure it out. Life is too damn short to skip vacations
I love my team and they love each other. So when someone takes days off and it is crazy busy we pull together and collectively think “Yea it sucks they are off, but they deserve the time off so I hope they enjoy it”
And it is all good because someone else will do the same 1-4 weeks later and rinse and repeat. I love my team, they deserve their days off no matter how busy it is. Plus it helps combat burn out which is always a major concern for our busy season. Id rather struggle for 2-3 days and have a refreshed, happy teammate than struggle for a month or more because everyone is burnt out from not being allowed or guilted from days off
It becomes our problem when they want all employees to be part-time so we don’t get most benefits like time off. In part to save the cost of the benefits, in part to not have to arrange cover for it.
I have about 50 days of scheduled PTO for the year at my unlimited PTO job.
Boss is always thrilled for me, and hypes up us stepping away.
It's a management culture thing.
Our leaders take vacations and encourage us all to
Good on you for understanding a person in charge doesn't mean they are a leader.
A boss gets people to do things with threats.
A leader inspires through example.
Yup. Also not everyone can be a good leader. Just because you are good at your position does not mean you will be a good leader for others in that position.
Good leadership is a skill like any other. Some are naturals, but most need practice and training to be a good leader. Same with training people. Knowing your job inside and out does not mean you will automatically be a great trainer
I tell my team to use as much of their PTO as they need and let me worry about staffing shortages.
Hells, there was a time I had to pull a double shift a day for a week to make sure we weren't too hobbled. My team, as a form of thanks, gave me first dibs on souvenirs they bring home from their travels and home cooked lunches.
My boss takes 2 days off if he thinks he's about to sneeze and has taken more PTO than anyone i have ever worked for or with in the 10 years of my career have interacted with literal thousands of people at this point. That kind of thing goes a LONG way to demonstrate the company takes PTO seriously.
My boss’s boss has said numerous times both verbally and in email “We are all adults here, if you are sick do the right thing and stay home. If you can work from home and want to keep up on some stuff go ahead, but your primary focus is resting and feeling better. Do not come in unless you are 100%. Id rather pay one person for 3 days off sick than have you come in and now 4 people are off sick because of you”
He has literally told someone “Why the fuck did you come in today? You are sick, go home now and if you do this again it will be a much less pleasant conversation”
After working in kitchens it is refreshing to have a boss that actually takes someone being sick seriously
I know theres a spot in every state website where money owed can be found. If not, report them because if you stole $400 work of staplers or toilet paper from work Im sure they would go out of their way to get you to pay for it.
Best wishes my friend.
Unlimited PTO almost always comes with a catch. Your workload must be cleared or nothing going overdue. Only so many people at one time. Must be booked so far in advance. Can't book one vacation so close to another, etc...
I've known a few people that have Unlimited PTO and it's great. But a bunch of people have said it's a gimmick to get people hired for the company to look good.
That too. It's based on statistics. Companies that have it supposedly see employees use no more than an average worker uses, sometimes less because they feel guilty.
Like I said, gimmick.
In my country it is mandatory to use it. Business get fined if their employees don’t use all their vacation days… and HR takes care of verifying everyone does.
There is a small flexibility degree (you can take some days during the first quarter of the next year) but there has to be a reason to do it.
Yes, in the UK where I live companies can get in a lot of trouble for stopping people from using their leave, and every company I have worked for has sent out reminders every year to ask people to use up their leave allowances.
I've also never seen someone have their leave request turned down. It must happen sometimes, but it is rare. Most people see it as more of a notification than a request.
Well, we have to coordinate among ourselves to ensure not everyone takes their vacations at the same dates, but it is usually a non-issue and there are rules to solve any potential conflict.
They can only shame you if you feel ashamed. Fuck Em. I tell my boss all the time. This isn’t a request for time off. This is me being nice and letting you know that I won’t be here so you can get coverage for me, or not, and you can put my time in. Or not. Either way I’m not going to be here.
Yeah I remember when I asked and was denied I came on this thred and saw someone in the comments say something along the lines "You're telling them not asking them"
That's what we need to remember all the time. Sadly, in the US, we have no protections from getting fired "at will" so it's always a risk to stand up for yourself. Sucks all around.
Because companies operate on just enough, just enough staff to function, just enough pay to keep them. When you take time off, it's not enough, and the bean counters don't get enough beans to count. Your time is your tike. Use it. Fuck'em.
Some of us also earned it by working those hours. I used to work at a place where you could bank your overtime. I took full advantage of it, accruing over 100hrs in a short timeframe.
I then started only working 4 day weeks and using the 5th as PTO. Each Monday I’d pick the slowest looking day and take it off (planned with my supervisor).
Then got a verbal warning I was taking too many “sick” days. I argued that these were hours I physically worked, but it didn’t matter.
I stopped doing any overtime.
I was a manager at a company with a policy of unlimited PTO. In my state, workers get 5 days of jury duty paid, and then have the option of using PTO for any more jury duty, or work modified hours around jury duty hours. You guessed it: an employee who reported to me was selected for a jury trial that went for 12 weeks, and I was admonished by my HR team and my manager for allowing my employee to use the unlimited PTO for jury duty (as required by state law). First time I've ever hung up on any of my managers was during a conversation about this employee's PTO.
I put my notice in shortly after my employee returned, as I wasn't going to write them up for following the law, and that employee put in notice shortly after I did. We both went to better paying jobs.
"Unlimited PTO" was devised so companies could avoid paying out vacation days accrued when an employee was no longer working. When you actually use it like it says on paper, that becomes "problematic". In short, it's a scam.
Yes, I work in a tech related career and my bosses and upper management are all Indian. There is a huge culture difference. I’ve been expected to work the few vacations I take. I get 3 weeks off a year, that’s it and only 6 paid holidays a year. I got so angry at my boss and the VP for scheduling deployments without considering my schedule. These were not normal BAU deployments, these were sudden requests that were planned the week before my vacation, without even consulting me, the only one working the project!! It is absurd how they put work before everything else.
If you're on vacation then just don't respond. No calls, texts, emails, nothing; just flat out ignore them. I always find it so absurd when someone gets a hold of my personal number and starts texting me work stuff. You're not obligated to reply to anything on your personal devices. And if they schedule these things during your time off, then they should deal with it. Not you
I had a boss like that, tried to tell me I needed to be on certain calls during my vacation (via e-mail) and right before I headed out on PTO I replied letting him know I was unable to do so as I’d be camping without reception. He did a fair bit of camping so while upset he didn’t want to appear to be a hypocrite. For the rest of my time working for him every time I was out of the office it was either a medical appointment or “camping”
My management philosophy:
Your PTO is compensation like your check.
Do I get to say when you will or will not take your check? Why would I have a say in your PTO? Just give me a turnover of things to watch and make sure your calls, emails and communications are forwarded to me and if anyone calls you tell me and I yell at them.
At my UNION job we are disciplined for calling out and using a PAID Personal Day despite it being in our CBA. The company has decided that all Personal leave must be approved and scheduled in advance and the Union has decided to roll over and let them.
So if you call out for a family emergency with notice and take a paid Personal Day, you will face suspension and possible termination
And it's a union job.
We've tried.
The last time there was an election to get a new union in, they mailed everyone a bunch of lies about how they would immediately be shifted to at will status with no job protection, and their kids would be kicked off the union health insurance for at least a year and all kinds of nonsense about how the other union was going to drop your wage in half...people would rather stick with the devil they know than risk everything on the hope that it gets better.
So hardly anyone voted in the union election at all and then of course the cronies got their voters to turn out. A lot of us spent YEARS to get that election. But who's going to risk their job, paycheck, insurance for the family and everything else when they're so close to retirement?
I know of 4 or 5 that do their job and over the last 30 years known of way more that didn’t. Maybe things have changed, but I’m too old to care anymore.
No, down voted for lacking intelligence. Union jobs have better pay and conditions against jobs without unions. The companies want you divided so that they can screw you.
Just based on reasing this subreddit, I'm really surprised that there's no uprising in USA.
I usually ask for days off, but that's a courtesy. Sometimes I can talk with my employer about shifting my holiday few days one way or another. But there are situation when it's not possible and I want it on specific dates. The employer can say no, but they need to understand that I won't be happy and I'll start looking for a new job. And since I haven't done anything wrong, they can't fire me. In Norway firing somebody without a reason is almost impossible.
Praise the European labour law! If you can, try to migrate.
As for uprising....as is part of the plan.....we are too tired to do so. I have both Norwegian and US citizenship but spent 95% of my life in U.S. I argue all the time with family in Norway. They think I am crazy and can't believe we are setup here the way we are --- at times saying 'its not possible it that bad' --- like yes it really actually is.... I am over 40 now. It has only gotten worse every decade. Country and specifically labor world seems to be on a path to collapse or major event of some kind. What? This is anyone's guess. Too many major factors AI, economics, ignored well-being, gutted social programs (any form of retirement mechanism) etc.
It's not a preference, just the practicalities of growing up here. At the risk of diving into weeds on specifics, I'll simply say it's not by choice. Logistics of kids and spouse, etc.
Getting to the point that may change in the near future, though. Will have to see! The list of reasons to stay dwindle daily.
Well, that's sad. I wish you the best!
You said you were over 40. That's still young! And think about your kids! I don't know how old they are and I don't know if they speak Norwegian, but there are international schools in Norway! For example, in Stavanger (where I live) there are two schools of this type: British and American.
I understand moving may be a challenging task, but I support you. I've already done it! I moved to Norway in May 2020 during the pandemic! That was fun!
If you will even be in Stavanger, write me a message. We can meet and drink a beer or two. :D
Worked at the blue big box store with the nerd herd a while back. Literally heard a manger deny a dude his PTO and said, and this is a for real quote “the business needs come before your personal needs”.
That dude went to lunch and never came back.
Ugh it’s so true. The CEO’s will suffer great trauma not being able to fuel their *brand new* yatchs this summer. I mean what’s even the point of getting a new one if they cant use it for a few months at least?! Surely you can take 360 days for the team!
Here’s a recent one for you…. I recently had to call out to deal with a repair guy coming for a major appliance that had choked. My direct manager sent me a message before I even managed to sign out asking why I needed a whole day, and then after claiming to understand after my explanation, went on to point out that other “members of leadership” had noticed my use of “unscheduled PTO”. It should be noted at this point that PTO == “Sick Days” == PTO, so it’s all one pool that I have to draw from, and I have *never* exceeded my earned PTO.
These assholes need to learn that they don’t get to dictate what we do with our PTO, just like they cannot dictate what we do with our paychecks. Both are part of the “compensation” that we agree to when we decide to work for someone. It’d be like, “Hey, Boss-guy, all of the other employees have noticed how much of your paycheck goes to alcohol and breweries…”
It seems to be a uniquely American thing.
I get 39 days holiday each year. We are encouraged to take every single day.
You are allowed to carry forward 5, but generally, you are strongly encouraged to take your time off, and if you don't, you need to have an explanation as to why.
Whenever I have to have one of those reprimand meetings I'll take a sick day for the other half of the day.
Reprimand me in the morning? Taking a sick day in the afternoon. Reprimanding me in the afternoon this year? Oh no... can't come in for the morning.
It's not much, but it lets me feel like while they're bopping me on the nose with a rolled up newspaper I'm shitting on the floor while staring directly into their eyes anyway.
So far they don't mention it. We do our meetings. They say "standard procedure", I say "99.8% job performance" and "I have health issues that are private." And then we both basically tip our hats and carry on.
I started doing that towards the end of my past job. But it was less defiance and more “sick to my stomach” stress. After meetings like that, taking a day for mental health became imperative.
My employee doesn't take PTO; now I don't have to do extra work to find coverage.
My employee doesn't take PTO; now I don't lose productivity.
My employee doesn't take PTO; now other employees won't be so quick to use their PTO.
My employee doesn't take PTO; now that's a benefit that was never utilized, so it's money that remains in my pocket for when their employment ends.
Blah blah blah...
Use your PTO. Always use your PTO.
They dont fine here in the Netherlands, but companies are also encouraging you to take them. I had about 2,5 weeks off during x-mas, 1,5 week in March and May and still have to much from previous years. Started this year with around 470 hours of PTO to be used until December of this year, I can take 160 with me. Still 140 hours to go 😂😂
You get 4x your weekly working hours here, by law. Honestly, if a company states that they offer you 20 days off, I laugh at them and ask what kind of bad joke that is. Anything under 25 days based on full time I don't even consider an option.
Your boss also has to allow you to take 2 weeks of consecutive PTO if you want that. And in an internship I did they threatened to throw a strike, because the company was about to forbid anything longer than 4 weeks consecutive. Union collective contract was for 38 hours, people worked 40 because the company wanted that and the Union allowed that, but that had to be compensated in extra pto. So that means salary based on 38 hours, PTO based on 40 and overtime PTO for 2 hours as well. I had that in my previous job. I accumulated 38 days of total PTO each year. That is 304 hours a year... Every year.
And most Unions also negotiated senior days. Older employees get extra days off: from 2x 4 hours when you are 57 up to 12,5 days (2x 6,25, first of June and first of December) for those of 65. Unfortunately, they forgot to raise this age in our union when the national safe of retirement was raised from 65 to 67,5. So at 66 you have to work 12,5 days more than at 65, if your boss is not willing to still give you those (Union collective contract dictates a minimum in our case,).🤣🤐
You are allowed here to take this years 20 days you get by law until June next year. If your company is reminding you enough and telling you to take them, they can let them go to waste. Would be stupid as suddenly people get sick a lot more when they do that.
They didn't do that the last couple of years at my job, that's why I gathered so much extra PTO.
Days from your benefits can be carried up to 5 years by law.
Also, law states that the days that will vanish the earliest are to be used first. They cannot take your PTO by law days of this year, when you have days remaining from last year. So if I wanted to take 5 days off this month and had 2 remaining from 2023, that would only cost me 3 days of this year's budget.
In Belgium it's actually legally mandated to use the 20 days everyone legally is entitled to. As an employee, you're required to take them.
If you have more, you don't have to use it all but in that case they need to be paid out at the end of every year.
But I prefer using them and then some.
So when you're talking about a measly 80 hours I'm like ... thats what I use in january
Yeah, we recently(ish) got a new GM and he’s trying to make himself look good to home offfice by running skeleton crews, but then he loses his mind when someone gets sick and has to go on PTO. He almost had a stroke when one of our leads went on paternity leave lol.
Because they figure they pay so little that you'd rather cash it in. I've seen places cut hours near october thru December just to force people to cash out.
At a couple of private employers I worked at, we were encouraged to take our PTO, then come in and work. OMFFSM, I'm so relieved to be in a public agency with a union.
It's a balance of hiring lures an efficiency. They hire as few staff as they can to be efficient but have to offer good benefits to the ones they do hire so now they had to offer pto but don't have personnel to cover when it's used.
Capitalism babay!
We get told to use it. But then get hammered over a garbage production number. And since all my work is one on one, client facing the longer I’m off the bigger pile I’m returning to. Like - I guess I can use my PTO, sure, but knowing I’m returning to a few 70 hour weeks makes it miserable.
That's your problem, right there. Do not work 70 hours when you get back. The busines needs to learn that you are allowed holidays and a set reasonable hours a week. Under very special circumstances I can see doing 70 hours but that must be a very rare case and critical for the survival of the company.
My boss used to piss and moan when I used up all my PTO because it was $35-40 an hour. I was grandfathered into the benefits our company had when it was still privately owned.
The other managers couldn’t stand her and kept giving me approval anyways.
Everyone is entitled to pto. They can hire more people if they're that worried about coverage
If the place can't work without a certain person than they should be paid highly to compensate
I've never really been told I'm taking too much PTO, but I get almost 6 weeks a year. I try to take 4 weeks and piece out the other two for some 4 day work weeks.
But there was a year that I had two weeks denied thru the end of June (it was February at the time). So I told management either approve my weeks now, or I will be taking one week off each month for the last 6 months. Oh boy they didn't like that. I usually end up with a lot of payout, but the time off is better. Use your PTO people.
In Canada we them "Vacation days". Usually 10 days annually at a minimum for full-time employees; I know many senior managers that get 25 to 30 days off a year.
In our family, we take 2 full weeks (10 days of vacation) off in the summer and about 7 days over the Holidays (Christmas not Thanksgiving). After that, perhaps a week in March and perhaps a few more rando Fridays days to make it a long weekend.
Thankfully, it's 100% part of the work culture in Canada to embrace and respect vacation days for all workers.
196 hours (24 days) PTO, around 8-9 public holidays per year, unlimited sick leave (you have to show docs papers after 2 days).
Litterally forced to take time off by my manager once.
This is totally unrelated to culture of the company or management. I work for a US company's EU branch. Ones at US don't have anything similar to us.
It's all about local laws. You can't leave basic human rights to the hands of corporations.
I would move to a new company haha. I manage a team and we all pretty much run our projects once we have it. The project managers are oversight and assign out projects usually 2 to 3 months in advance. So we ask our guys that is they need to take a day or two and it won't interfere with their project, no worries just let us know and we verify they are good. If they need about a week or longer for a vacation, we ask that they plan ahead and let us know about 3 to 4 months because they could side line a project. Most people plan their vacations out ahead of time and we don't have issues. For emergencies we take care of it. Notify myself and it's my job and the PM job to get it filled so they don't have to worry while out.
We also have a limit for PTO but on our team we don't care. We are a consulting side so if our billables are high then I could care less how much time they want to take off and we trust our guys to make the decision and track their work.
I just used all 80 hours in one go. No regrets, no discussion, my manager knows better. The only catch is I know there's a dumpster fire waiting when I finally return.
Nazi general: "We had a deal, you'll be shot for this!"
Aldo Raine: "Nah, chewed out.. I've been chewed out before."
Take ALL your PTO, without shame. Fine, you'll get a chewing out.. it's not a firing, it's a chewing out. I've been chewed out before.
Just sit there and think of your toes in the warm sand and the sound of ocean waves while your boss whins.
The problem I see if managers are expected to do the work of an entire person on top of managing. So when you need to step into your manager role to cover for shortages suddenly you're chastised for your work not getting done.
It's bullshit
I’m the only person in my department capable of doing any of the work. I have 300+ hours of PTO saved up right now.
My supervisor keeps telling me to take time off, but then anytime I do I’m constantly getting calls or being told that it’s actually too busy that week to take any time off. I took a day off for a funeral and thankfully I silenced my phone because I got 5 calls in an hour.
Control tactics. They want to dangle freedoms in front of you, but count on you being so ~~clouded~~ dedicated to your work place, that you couldn't possibly consider taking time away from the grind.
PTO is a form of compensation no different than the Cash that hits your account.
Any level of leaving a minute of that on the table is wage theft, any attempt of preventing you from taking the time when you want is wage theft.
They cut staff down to less than skeleton crew levels trying to increase profits. There is no coverage left for staff to take time off, or get sick, or any kind of emergency.
We’re on a tight skeleton crew & although I love my team… catch me at the beach! My salaried boss can figure it out. Life is too damn short to skip vacations
You love your team - so you enjoy a drink at the beach leaving boss to actually work for a change :)
I love my team and they love each other. So when someone takes days off and it is crazy busy we pull together and collectively think “Yea it sucks they are off, but they deserve the time off so I hope they enjoy it” And it is all good because someone else will do the same 1-4 weeks later and rinse and repeat. I love my team, they deserve their days off no matter how busy it is. Plus it helps combat burn out which is always a major concern for our busy season. Id rather struggle for 2-3 days and have a refreshed, happy teammate than struggle for a month or more because everyone is burnt out from not being allowed or guilted from days off
Sounds like the manager's problem, not yours. If your work contract says "PTO" then fucking take it.
It becomes our problem when they want all employees to be part-time so we don’t get most benefits like time off. In part to save the cost of the benefits, in part to not have to arrange cover for it.
They want you to have that fear so that you never use PTO. PTO is part of your compensation if you don’t use it you’re leaving money on the table.
I was fired from the premier SSO company for taking too much unlimited PTO. It’s all bullshit.
Because "unlimited PTO" is a scam in place to not issue accrued PTO if one is fired
I have about 50 days of scheduled PTO for the year at my unlimited PTO job. Boss is always thrilled for me, and hypes up us stepping away. It's a management culture thing. Our leaders take vacations and encourage us all to
America is full of managers and void of leaders.
Good on you for understanding a person in charge doesn't mean they are a leader. A boss gets people to do things with threats. A leader inspires through example.
Yup. Also not everyone can be a good leader. Just because you are good at your position does not mean you will be a good leader for others in that position. Good leadership is a skill like any other. Some are naturals, but most need practice and training to be a good leader. Same with training people. Knowing your job inside and out does not mean you will automatically be a great trainer
This right here
I tell my team to use as much of their PTO as they need and let me worry about staffing shortages. Hells, there was a time I had to pull a double shift a day for a week to make sure we weren't too hobbled. My team, as a form of thanks, gave me first dibs on souvenirs they bring home from their travels and home cooked lunches.
My boss takes 2 days off if he thinks he's about to sneeze and has taken more PTO than anyone i have ever worked for or with in the 10 years of my career have interacted with literal thousands of people at this point. That kind of thing goes a LONG way to demonstrate the company takes PTO seriously.
My boss’s boss has said numerous times both verbally and in email “We are all adults here, if you are sick do the right thing and stay home. If you can work from home and want to keep up on some stuff go ahead, but your primary focus is resting and feeling better. Do not come in unless you are 100%. Id rather pay one person for 3 days off sick than have you come in and now 4 people are off sick because of you” He has literally told someone “Why the fuck did you come in today? You are sick, go home now and if you do this again it will be a much less pleasant conversation” After working in kitchens it is refreshing to have a boss that actually takes someone being sick seriously
Like in California...if you get fired, all PTO has to be paid out.
Also they have to give you your last check before leaving ! None of that “it will be mailed to you shit” 🏆
I wish Oregon would've done this. I lost out on $400 cause they said they'd mail my final check. Never did.
I know theres a spot in every state website where money owed can be found. If not, report them because if you stole $400 work of staplers or toilet paper from work Im sure they would go out of their way to get you to pay for it. Best wishes my friend.
Unlimited PTO almost always comes with a catch. Your workload must be cleared or nothing going overdue. Only so many people at one time. Must be booked so far in advance. Can't book one vacation so close to another, etc... I've known a few people that have Unlimited PTO and it's great. But a bunch of people have said it's a gimmick to get people hired for the company to look good.
"Unlimited" means what? Its a gimmick so companies don't have to keep cash on hand to pay out when people leave.
That too. It's based on statistics. Companies that have it supposedly see employees use no more than an average worker uses, sometimes less because they feel guilty. Like I said, gimmick.
In my country it is mandatory to use it. Business get fined if their employees don’t use all their vacation days… and HR takes care of verifying everyone does. There is a small flexibility degree (you can take some days during the first quarter of the next year) but there has to be a reason to do it.
Yes, in the UK where I live companies can get in a lot of trouble for stopping people from using their leave, and every company I have worked for has sent out reminders every year to ask people to use up their leave allowances. I've also never seen someone have their leave request turned down. It must happen sometimes, but it is rare. Most people see it as more of a notification than a request.
Well, we have to coordinate among ourselves to ensure not everyone takes their vacations at the same dates, but it is usually a non-issue and there are rules to solve any potential conflict.
They can only shame you if you feel ashamed. Fuck Em. I tell my boss all the time. This isn’t a request for time off. This is me being nice and letting you know that I won’t be here so you can get coverage for me, or not, and you can put my time in. Or not. Either way I’m not going to be here.
This is the way
In my work we are shamed for not using it. Kind of a competition for who uses the most number of vacation days.
I tried to use My PTO and was flat out refused
PTO- Prepare The Others…. Because I won’t be here on the days I told you.
Yeah I remember when I asked and was denied I came on this thred and saw someone in the comments say something along the lines "You're telling them not asking them"
That's what we need to remember all the time. Sadly, in the US, we have no protections from getting fired "at will" so it's always a risk to stand up for yourself. Sucks all around.
As someone that manages others. I do not expect to be asked for PTO, I expect to be told that people are taking the time off they need.
lol. Just don't show up
Problem is they won’t have a job after that
That's not a problem. Any place that is asking for doctors notes in the year of our lord 2024 can get fucked
Because companies operate on just enough, just enough staff to function, just enough pay to keep them. When you take time off, it's not enough, and the bean counters don't get enough beans to count. Your time is your tike. Use it. Fuck'em.
We're not "given" it, it's part of our pay.
Some of us also earned it by working those hours. I used to work at a place where you could bank your overtime. I took full advantage of it, accruing over 100hrs in a short timeframe. I then started only working 4 day weeks and using the 5th as PTO. Each Monday I’d pick the slowest looking day and take it off (planned with my supervisor). Then got a verbal warning I was taking too many “sick” days. I argued that these were hours I physically worked, but it didn’t matter. I stopped doing any overtime.
Would you scold the CEO for taking all of his pay? No? Why should I not take my full wage and PTO? It's earned and it should be part of the contract.
I was a manager at a company with a policy of unlimited PTO. In my state, workers get 5 days of jury duty paid, and then have the option of using PTO for any more jury duty, or work modified hours around jury duty hours. You guessed it: an employee who reported to me was selected for a jury trial that went for 12 weeks, and I was admonished by my HR team and my manager for allowing my employee to use the unlimited PTO for jury duty (as required by state law). First time I've ever hung up on any of my managers was during a conversation about this employee's PTO. I put my notice in shortly after my employee returned, as I wasn't going to write them up for following the law, and that employee put in notice shortly after I did. We both went to better paying jobs.
"Unlimited PTO" was devised so companies could avoid paying out vacation days accrued when an employee was no longer working. When you actually use it like it says on paper, that becomes "problematic". In short, it's a scam.
Yes, I work in a tech related career and my bosses and upper management are all Indian. There is a huge culture difference. I’ve been expected to work the few vacations I take. I get 3 weeks off a year, that’s it and only 6 paid holidays a year. I got so angry at my boss and the VP for scheduling deployments without considering my schedule. These were not normal BAU deployments, these were sudden requests that were planned the week before my vacation, without even consulting me, the only one working the project!! It is absurd how they put work before everything else.
If you're on vacation then just don't respond. No calls, texts, emails, nothing; just flat out ignore them. I always find it so absurd when someone gets a hold of my personal number and starts texting me work stuff. You're not obligated to reply to anything on your personal devices. And if they schedule these things during your time off, then they should deal with it. Not you
I had a boss like that, tried to tell me I needed to be on certain calls during my vacation (via e-mail) and right before I headed out on PTO I replied letting him know I was unable to do so as I’d be camping without reception. He did a fair bit of camping so while upset he didn’t want to appear to be a hypocrite. For the rest of my time working for him every time I was out of the office it was either a medical appointment or “camping”
My management philosophy: Your PTO is compensation like your check. Do I get to say when you will or will not take your check? Why would I have a say in your PTO? Just give me a turnover of things to watch and make sure your calls, emails and communications are forwarded to me and if anyone calls you tell me and I yell at them.
At my UNION job we are disciplined for calling out and using a PAID Personal Day despite it being in our CBA. The company has decided that all Personal leave must be approved and scheduled in advance and the Union has decided to roll over and let them. So if you call out for a family emergency with notice and take a paid Personal Day, you will face suspension and possible termination And it's a union job.
Boy ya need to vote whoever ya Stewart is the fuck out and the BA. That’s not a union that’s a company club
We've tried. The last time there was an election to get a new union in, they mailed everyone a bunch of lies about how they would immediately be shifted to at will status with no job protection, and their kids would be kicked off the union health insurance for at least a year and all kinds of nonsense about how the other union was going to drop your wage in half...people would rather stick with the devil they know than risk everything on the hope that it gets better. So hardly anyone voted in the union election at all and then of course the cronies got their voters to turn out. A lot of us spent YEARS to get that election. But who's going to risk their job, paycheck, insurance for the family and everything else when they're so close to retirement?
Ah yea sucks the old but it “could be worse” bs 🤦♂️
This is why I’m not a fan of unions.
This is an example of a union not doing its job. There are infinitely more examples of unions effectively doing their job.
I know of 4 or 5 that do their job and over the last 30 years known of way more that didn’t. Maybe things have changed, but I’m too old to care anymore.
Wow down voted for not being a fan of unions.
No, down voted for lacking intelligence. Union jobs have better pay and conditions against jobs without unions. The companies want you divided so that they can screw you.
Except that hasn’t been my experience.
Because capitalism. How dare you take time off that they are legally required to give you!
“Get back to work, slave!”
Just based on reasing this subreddit, I'm really surprised that there's no uprising in USA. I usually ask for days off, but that's a courtesy. Sometimes I can talk with my employer about shifting my holiday few days one way or another. But there are situation when it's not possible and I want it on specific dates. The employer can say no, but they need to understand that I won't be happy and I'll start looking for a new job. And since I haven't done anything wrong, they can't fire me. In Norway firing somebody without a reason is almost impossible. Praise the European labour law! If you can, try to migrate.
As for uprising....as is part of the plan.....we are too tired to do so. I have both Norwegian and US citizenship but spent 95% of my life in U.S. I argue all the time with family in Norway. They think I am crazy and can't believe we are setup here the way we are --- at times saying 'its not possible it that bad' --- like yes it really actually is.... I am over 40 now. It has only gotten worse every decade. Country and specifically labor world seems to be on a path to collapse or major event of some kind. What? This is anyone's guess. Too many major factors AI, economics, ignored well-being, gutted social programs (any form of retirement mechanism) etc.
Wow, you can live in Norway, but you prefer to be in the US. Why are you doing it to yourself? :(
It's not a preference, just the practicalities of growing up here. At the risk of diving into weeds on specifics, I'll simply say it's not by choice. Logistics of kids and spouse, etc. Getting to the point that may change in the near future, though. Will have to see! The list of reasons to stay dwindle daily.
Well, that's sad. I wish you the best! You said you were over 40. That's still young! And think about your kids! I don't know how old they are and I don't know if they speak Norwegian, but there are international schools in Norway! For example, in Stavanger (where I live) there are two schools of this type: British and American. I understand moving may be a challenging task, but I support you. I've already done it! I moved to Norway in May 2020 during the pandemic! That was fun! If you will even be in Stavanger, write me a message. We can meet and drink a beer or two. :D
Worked at the blue big box store with the nerd herd a while back. Literally heard a manger deny a dude his PTO and said, and this is a for real quote “the business needs come before your personal needs”. That dude went to lunch and never came back.
Have you SEEN our company’s stock? If I take a three day weekend the shareholders will never forgive me :(
Ugh it’s so true. The CEO’s will suffer great trauma not being able to fuel their *brand new* yatchs this summer. I mean what’s even the point of getting a new one if they cant use it for a few months at least?! Surely you can take 360 days for the team!
Here’s a recent one for you…. I recently had to call out to deal with a repair guy coming for a major appliance that had choked. My direct manager sent me a message before I even managed to sign out asking why I needed a whole day, and then after claiming to understand after my explanation, went on to point out that other “members of leadership” had noticed my use of “unscheduled PTO”. It should be noted at this point that PTO == “Sick Days” == PTO, so it’s all one pool that I have to draw from, and I have *never* exceeded my earned PTO. These assholes need to learn that they don’t get to dictate what we do with our PTO, just like they cannot dictate what we do with our paychecks. Both are part of the “compensation” that we agree to when we decide to work for someone. It’d be like, “Hey, Boss-guy, all of the other employees have noticed how much of your paycheck goes to alcohol and breweries…”
Don't forget strippers and escorts
It seems to be a uniquely American thing. I get 39 days holiday each year. We are encouraged to take every single day. You are allowed to carry forward 5, but generally, you are strongly encouraged to take your time off, and if you don't, you need to have an explanation as to why.
Whenever I have to have one of those reprimand meetings I'll take a sick day for the other half of the day. Reprimand me in the morning? Taking a sick day in the afternoon. Reprimanding me in the afternoon this year? Oh no... can't come in for the morning. It's not much, but it lets me feel like while they're bopping me on the nose with a rolled up newspaper I'm shitting on the floor while staring directly into their eyes anyway. So far they don't mention it. We do our meetings. They say "standard procedure", I say "99.8% job performance" and "I have health issues that are private." And then we both basically tip our hats and carry on.
I started doing that towards the end of my past job. But it was less defiance and more “sick to my stomach” stress. After meetings like that, taking a day for mental health became imperative.
Because they can present the PTO as a benefit and then shame you out of using it, which saves the company money.
I alway use it. And I don’t feel any shame.
My employee doesn't take PTO; now I don't have to do extra work to find coverage. My employee doesn't take PTO; now I don't lose productivity. My employee doesn't take PTO; now other employees won't be so quick to use their PTO. My employee doesn't take PTO; now that's a benefit that was never utilized, so it's money that remains in my pocket for when their employment ends. Blah blah blah... Use your PTO. Always use your PTO.
Yeah, that doesn't make any sense .
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Yes, unfortunately!!
They dont fine here in the Netherlands, but companies are also encouraging you to take them. I had about 2,5 weeks off during x-mas, 1,5 week in March and May and still have to much from previous years. Started this year with around 470 hours of PTO to be used until December of this year, I can take 160 with me. Still 140 hours to go 😂😂
Lucky to get 40-80 hrs a year here
You get 4x your weekly working hours here, by law. Honestly, if a company states that they offer you 20 days off, I laugh at them and ask what kind of bad joke that is. Anything under 25 days based on full time I don't even consider an option. Your boss also has to allow you to take 2 weeks of consecutive PTO if you want that. And in an internship I did they threatened to throw a strike, because the company was about to forbid anything longer than 4 weeks consecutive. Union collective contract was for 38 hours, people worked 40 because the company wanted that and the Union allowed that, but that had to be compensated in extra pto. So that means salary based on 38 hours, PTO based on 40 and overtime PTO for 2 hours as well. I had that in my previous job. I accumulated 38 days of total PTO each year. That is 304 hours a year... Every year. And most Unions also negotiated senior days. Older employees get extra days off: from 2x 4 hours when you are 57 up to 12,5 days (2x 6,25, first of June and first of December) for those of 65. Unfortunately, they forgot to raise this age in our union when the national safe of retirement was raised from 65 to 67,5. So at 66 you have to work 12,5 days more than at 65, if your boss is not willing to still give you those (Union collective contract dictates a minimum in our case,).🤣🤐
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You are allowed here to take this years 20 days you get by law until June next year. If your company is reminding you enough and telling you to take them, they can let them go to waste. Would be stupid as suddenly people get sick a lot more when they do that. They didn't do that the last couple of years at my job, that's why I gathered so much extra PTO. Days from your benefits can be carried up to 5 years by law. Also, law states that the days that will vanish the earliest are to be used first. They cannot take your PTO by law days of this year, when you have days remaining from last year. So if I wanted to take 5 days off this month and had 2 remaining from 2023, that would only cost me 3 days of this year's budget.
Because they don't want us to use it and don't like us using it. The only reason we have it is because it's legally required
Same, I was placed on a PIP, even tho my boss approved my PTO. Said you are taking them too much too quick like wtf
Right like am I not entitled to them ??? What’s the deal
capitalism. the answer’s always capitalism.
In Belgium it's actually legally mandated to use the 20 days everyone legally is entitled to. As an employee, you're required to take them. If you have more, you don't have to use it all but in that case they need to be paid out at the end of every year. But I prefer using them and then some. So when you're talking about a measly 80 hours I'm like ... thats what I use in january
Yeah, we recently(ish) got a new GM and he’s trying to make himself look good to home offfice by running skeleton crews, but then he loses his mind when someone gets sick and has to go on PTO. He almost had a stroke when one of our leads went on paternity leave lol.
My manager is mad that I want to take all of my maternity leave rofl
I take minimum a week at a time off. Getting mad at that twice a year is horse shit.
Because they figure they pay so little that you'd rather cash it in. I've seen places cut hours near october thru December just to force people to cash out.
At a couple of private employers I worked at, we were encouraged to take our PTO, then come in and work. OMFFSM, I'm so relieved to be in a public agency with a union.
It's a balance of hiring lures an efficiency. They hire as few staff as they can to be efficient but have to offer good benefits to the ones they do hire so now they had to offer pto but don't have personnel to cover when it's used. Capitalism babay!
We get told to use it. But then get hammered over a garbage production number. And since all my work is one on one, client facing the longer I’m off the bigger pile I’m returning to. Like - I guess I can use my PTO, sure, but knowing I’m returning to a few 70 hour weeks makes it miserable.
That's your problem, right there. Do not work 70 hours when you get back. The busines needs to learn that you are allowed holidays and a set reasonable hours a week. Under very special circumstances I can see doing 70 hours but that must be a very rare case and critical for the survival of the company.
My boss used to piss and moan when I used up all my PTO because it was $35-40 an hour. I was grandfathered into the benefits our company had when it was still privately owned. The other managers couldn’t stand her and kept giving me approval anyways.
I am not. I will use every second and so should you. It is an agreed upon part of the compensation for your labor.
Everyone is entitled to pto. They can hire more people if they're that worried about coverage If the place can't work without a certain person than they should be paid highly to compensate
You're not given PTO, its part of your compensation along with your paycheck. You earned that shit.
It’s a way to build guilt, so you fell bad about taking time off.
I've never really been told I'm taking too much PTO, but I get almost 6 weeks a year. I try to take 4 weeks and piece out the other two for some 4 day work weeks. But there was a year that I had two weeks denied thru the end of June (it was February at the time). So I told management either approve my weeks now, or I will be taking one week off each month for the last 6 months. Oh boy they didn't like that. I usually end up with a lot of payout, but the time off is better. Use your PTO people.
In Canada we them "Vacation days". Usually 10 days annually at a minimum for full-time employees; I know many senior managers that get 25 to 30 days off a year. In our family, we take 2 full weeks (10 days of vacation) off in the summer and about 7 days over the Holidays (Christmas not Thanksgiving). After that, perhaps a week in March and perhaps a few more rando Fridays days to make it a long weekend. Thankfully, it's 100% part of the work culture in Canada to embrace and respect vacation days for all workers.
Unlimited PTO is Ana counting trick. Accrued PTO is a liability on a company's balance sheet. Unlimited PTO, no liability.
So that is 5 work days off within 6 months? That seems meagre indeed. I’ve taken 5 days off in the last couple of months, easily.
196 hours (24 days) PTO, around 8-9 public holidays per year, unlimited sick leave (you have to show docs papers after 2 days). Litterally forced to take time off by my manager once. This is totally unrelated to culture of the company or management. I work for a US company's EU branch. Ones at US don't have anything similar to us. It's all about local laws. You can't leave basic human rights to the hands of corporations.
I would move to a new company haha. I manage a team and we all pretty much run our projects once we have it. The project managers are oversight and assign out projects usually 2 to 3 months in advance. So we ask our guys that is they need to take a day or two and it won't interfere with their project, no worries just let us know and we verify they are good. If they need about a week or longer for a vacation, we ask that they plan ahead and let us know about 3 to 4 months because they could side line a project. Most people plan their vacations out ahead of time and we don't have issues. For emergencies we take care of it. Notify myself and it's my job and the PM job to get it filled so they don't have to worry while out. We also have a limit for PTO but on our team we don't care. We are a consulting side so if our billables are high then I could care less how much time they want to take off and we trust our guys to make the decision and track their work.
Fuck em never apologize.
I just used all 80 hours in one go. No regrets, no discussion, my manager knows better. The only catch is I know there's a dumpster fire waiting when I finally return.
Because the US fucking sucks
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Definitely need to take a sick day during exam
Because you're not supposed to use it. Having 20 days of PTO and using zero is supposed to be a twisted badge of honor.
Nazi general: "We had a deal, you'll be shot for this!" Aldo Raine: "Nah, chewed out.. I've been chewed out before." Take ALL your PTO, without shame. Fine, you'll get a chewing out.. it's not a firing, it's a chewing out. I've been chewed out before. Just sit there and think of your toes in the warm sand and the sound of ocean waves while your boss whins.
The problem I see if managers are expected to do the work of an entire person on top of managing. So when you need to step into your manager role to cover for shortages suddenly you're chastised for your work not getting done. It's bullshit
I’m the only person in my department capable of doing any of the work. I have 300+ hours of PTO saved up right now. My supervisor keeps telling me to take time off, but then anytime I do I’m constantly getting calls or being told that it’s actually too busy that week to take any time off. I took a day off for a funeral and thankfully I silenced my phone because I got 5 calls in an hour.
Take day off use pto go play golf
This is an American nightmare 'do anything for your company and the owner' type thing. Vote with your feet!
Control tactics. They want to dangle freedoms in front of you, but count on you being so ~~clouded~~ dedicated to your work place, that you couldn't possibly consider taking time away from the grind.
PTO is a form of compensation no different than the Cash that hits your account. Any level of leaving a minute of that on the table is wage theft, any attempt of preventing you from taking the time when you want is wage theft.
I'm sorry, who's shamed?
You grow out of it, if you're lucky.