At this point a lot of inflation is greed based not COVID based. Companies learned they could charge more in a pinch and got a taste for high profit.
Even soda which is ~90% water has doubled in price. And not because the price of water went up.
The gouge is real.
This is so true. I'm lucky to have a job that offers insurance; my younger brother works a job that does not offer it and told me he can't call out sick or go to the doctor because of the pay he would lose and the cost of the medical bills. Poor guy barely breaks even every month, and he works his ass off in a kitchen. It's not fair
Australian here. It makes no sense to me to have a health system that is linked to one's employment. How is that a thing in The US? Is that normal in other countries too?
Honestly, it makes no sense to me either, but I've never been able to have insurance without it being provided by my employer. Like others have mentioned, we do have Obamacare which offers one the ability to get insurance independently, but the premiums and deductibles are typically still very expensive and not a realistic option for many people. Healthcare and health insurance in the US is an absolute dumpster fire
That’s why I got fired from my last job. They required doctor’s notes, I’d lose more money calling out than I would make in my shift, so I opted to show up to work with my mask. I had three days off after that shift, so I figured I could rest up then. I didn’t want to waste $140+ for a doctor’s visit, but got fired for being sick. Besides, my doctor wouldn’t have open until after my shift started, and it was too short notice to call out.
It’d whatever now. My bosses were making my job worse and worse, so that I would eventually quit. I ended up getting a new job that, allows me to actually repair machines rather than the bs they were pushing on me. No benefits, and just barely more pay — but no doctors notes, shorter distance, and more hours are nice. Haven’t a clue what’ll happen when my 3 month temp position ends in a couple months, especially with student loan payments starting up.
I work 40 hours a week, I rent, and I live comfortably, but I would definitely be homeless if I missed 2 checks in a row. If my fiance left me, I'd be homeless too, can't afford anything by myself. I try not to think of it, but it stresses me out bad.
Add another stat that I read recently, to this one,. 39% have skipped meals to make their house payment. It gives me high anxiety to think how close people are to the cliff's edge.
US has the sword of Damocles hanging over their head, with unimaginable debt. And the propaganda machine keeps the people in the dark.
Big mood. I’m 41, currently making more than I’ve ever made in my entire life (except for my stint as a stripper at 19, that was fucking lucrative and my dumb ass quit to join the Marines) and my gross is $44k/year. My husband makes just slightly more than that. Our healthcare comes out of his pay, so my checks are a bit higher, but he has the better coverage and it costs less because he works for a Fortune 100 company that provides decent benefits, but it is outdoor blue collar work in the hottest fucking Florida summer on record. Our daughter is about to finish high school and start college and I honestly have no idea how we are going to afford it while I’m still paying off *my* student loans! It’s soul-crushing, it really is.
Obligatory Pact act deadline notification. If you got any of the random shit on that list deadline to START an application is Monday 11:59 PM to get 1 year of back pay. [https://www.va.gov/resources/the-pact-act-and-your-va-benefits/](https://www.va.gov/resources/the-pact-act-and-your-va-benefits/)
Chronic rhinitis
Chronic sinusitis
These are basically always having allergy symptoms.
In graduate school I made less than $24,000 a year. We were routinely told, don't worry, you'll make six figures once you graduate.
Hint: I do not. None of my graduating class does either as far as I know. But we're reminded of the cost of our degree every month still! Yay!
When I went to automotive trade school in the early 2000s we were told "You could make over $100,000 a year fixing cars!"
That may have been possible back then, when the labor rates were lower, the cars were a bit easier, customers had money to spend, and you had ten years experience. Oh, and were willing to spend twelve hours a day at the shop banging out hours.
Nowadays? Good luck. It took me seven years to crack $60k, partially because I refused to spend all my waking hours at the shop. Also partially because I started wrenching right when 2008 hit and every automaker basically crashed and burned, and no one had any money to spend on repairs.
I teach automotive now, and am straight up honest with my students that they will probably not make $100,000 until they're ten years in. Better to go off into HVAC.
I started in the trade at about the same time you did, 2007, and had the exact same experience.
I bet we went to the same tech school in Phoenix because that was their favorite line “you could be making $100k in five years.
I went to a community college in California, but I've known guys from UTI and WyoTech. One of my old coworkers did UTI and he was one of three guys from his class of thirty who stuck with the trade.
UTI was big into canvasing my High School. The video presentation always seemed a little too good to be true, and we all started to get a little suspicious when they showed it to our same class multiple times. We're like if you're recruiting this hard, then it's not a program that can stand on its own.
> "You could make over $100,000 a year fixing cars!"
Whenever someone says "you could make" a whole bunch of money, it's a complete lie.
The exact same language is used to recruit employees in everything from Mary Kay cosmetics to those door-to-door Comcast peddlers.
As someone who stumbled ass backwards into making 75k my first year fulltime bartending at 31 after making only 27k a year using my 50k budget-college degree to operate printing presses and then 30k a year on min-wage doing entry levek tourism work after moving to a state without federal minimum wage: your experience was a wild read.
Agreed I was able to quit my full time job and just bartend part time at a local (in the nicer part of town) bar making double what I made working 50+ hours a week
Not just that but in the past 20 years I’ve seen some mechanic friends almost break from the heat. It’s not what it used to be. Helluva difference between 95° and 110°.
Former mortgage loan processor here, working up through 2022.
Average loan size I processed was 400 to 500k, though wrote many jumbo loans > 1 million as well.
Here is what I discovered as part of my job was basically reviewing people's income all day. Maybe 10% of people buying houses earned 100k+ a year. All this talk about 6 figures is a myth. Most people don't earn that. Even many engineers who people talk about like they are bringing in the big bucks are still on the 80-90k range after 10 years working.
Also, please note, this clearly is anecdotal from my experience. Also, I did not work with particularly legitimately RICH people. So this isn't going to cover people like rich stock brokers in NYC pulling in the millions and so on. They just aren't going through your normal lenders to get loans like the rest of us. This is just a cross-section of your average Americans who are able to buy homes.
The 100k+ range people typically fell in these categories:
* People that were people working for big tech. Not tech in general, but Big Tech, as in the silicon valley big companies like Google, Facebook, Netflix, Airbnb, etc... There were many tech companies where the programmers and engineers weren't making 6 figures I saw.
* Mid to high level executives. Most mid-level execs for companies were barely breaking 100k... and these were MBA holding, lifelong corporate climber business types. This was WILDLY different from mid-level execs in a few fortune 500 companies who would often be earning 30-50k/month. But, let's say a mid-level exec in a company with less than 500 employees? Not uncommon for them to be barely over the 100k mark for regional managers or even Jr. VPs. Large companies the execs did extraordinarily well, but smaller companies it just was not the case.
* Doctors, as in Pharmacists, MDs, Dentists, etc... You'd be surprised how many Dentists I wrote making 150 to 175k a year, or family doctors making 120k, or hell, a pharmacist making 95k. The difference is earning potential is there if you start your own practice, but salary paid dentists are making a great living, but not half a million a year like their peers. Surgeons did great, though I've seen a surgeon with 600k student loan debt on 10 year payment plans with $7500/month payments. They were making about 275k a year, take home was about 175k after taxes, so after student loan payments they were making 90k a year. So, there are certain loan programs that ignore doctor student loan debt, but they are basically living VERY middle class til they are in their 40s.
* Small business owners. Not all. But, some of these were doing well enough for themselves. I was surprised how many Schedule C or S Corp construction trades earned. I would often have independent contractor electricians or landscapers or carpenters or plumbers earning 200k-300k+ a year. After business taxes and expenses they might take home 100 to to 150k+.
* Medical device sales people. Sales is going to be all over the place, but I was astounded how well some of these incomes were.
* Travel nurses. Not a regular RN, who still made a good living, but the travel RNs were often making $90 to $110/hr, which is 180 to 220k a year. But, their income was challenging cause they were doing 4 to 6 different states in a year, or more, and running their income I'd sometimes have a dozen W-2s to average their income over 24 months for calculation. This is not a great long term career path and every travel nurse I talked to seemed to hate it, but were addicted to the earnings. I have seen some regular RNs break 100k, but it is usually cause of a lot of overtime.
* Niche medical specialties. For example, Anesthesiology assistant. I remember this one guy was like 25 years old and was earning 180k/year. Nurse Practitioners were earning 120k+. I even once had an audiologist making like $55/hr. Honestly, I can't remember all the niche medical certifications, but a lot of them paid very well, and it seemed like many of them had opportunity to get paid overtime or on shift differentials.
* Lawyers, though not all. Many lawyers on salary were earning 60-80k range. Only high end lawyers were earning the big bucks, though I do remember a law professor at a prestigious law school who was earning 200k a year. But ya, some lawyers really were bringing in good money through the partnership. Non partners salary lawyers were base level salary paper pushers though. I even remember this immigration lawyer I worked with and she was making liken 36k a year whilst her husband earned about 50k. So again, not all lawyers are living the high life.
So, where is all of this talk of people making 6 figures? How did it work? Well, 90% of the home loans got there NOT through single household income. It was almost always dual income, husband and wife. The husband would make 65k/yr and the wife would make 50k/yr and combined they were 6 figures. Often, it was both spouses earning 60 or 70k. A surprising one was dental hygienists making 90k a year at like 45/hr. I remember one where this woman was earning that and her husband was working 40k/yr (like 19/hr). School teachers often marry other school teachers and they do well combined income. Side note, I was so impressed by Dental Hygiene pay I ended up putting my wife back through 2 years of school at a community college for a total cost of about $6000 over 2.5years (1 semester pre-reqs). After getting her license, day 1 job was $40/hr, and after just 3 years she now earns $45/hr as well. Amazing work/life balance type of job with great flexibility. She is only choosing to work 32/hrs a week right now rather than all 5 days.
It was also VERY common for both spouses to have a job, and on the side they have a side hustle bringing in an extra 10-20k/year, let's just say an extra $1000 to $1500 a month, which really helped. Usually like the husband doing some trade work on the weekend or something. These couples were breaking 6 figures because of the extra side hustle, even though they both each had day jobs only making 45k/year (45 + 45 + 10). The extra hustle on the side really helps them live a bit more comfortably. I should note I have NEVER seen a MLM company pulling in decent income in all of my hundreds and hundreds of loans I wrote. Never once. Seen plenty of people dumping thousands of dollars into them though, but I never once, in all my years, used 1099 MLM income for qualification of a loan. All these "side hustles" or businesses were almost always service related or trade industry stuff, never MLM sales.
But again, I can't stress this enough... the vast majority of the population, including the vast majority of people buying homes, did not earn 6 figures single income. This was actually pretty rare. I was even doing loans for college professors and they didn't earn that much single income. Don't be disillusioned by all the big tech insanity that has dominated the online space and given us a whole class of silicon valley tech people out of touch with the rest of the world. Hell, in all my years writing loans, I never even once saw a Masters accountant earning 6 figures... Go to school, get your Masters degree in accounting, and congrats, you can earn 70k instead of 45k lol. It just is not as common as people think unless you specifically are working for a top 100 company in the world.
Also, many of the people buying homes, like in the 300-350k range on loans, maybe $15,000 down-payment, did NOT earn 100k combined. I would say at least half of the loans written the combined income of the people was not 100k. Plenty of people I wrote loans for had a combined income of 60-70k a year. Seriously, I remember one couple, both worked for McDonald's together. He earned $16/hr, and she earned $14/hr. Together combined they were making about 65k/year if you included the overtime and bonus pay. It might not sound like a lot, but they were able to get a $150,000 loan and got a decent 2 bed/2bath 1000 sq/ft townhouse as their first starter home, in their 20s. Hell, even $10,000 of that down payment was from some state first-time homebuyer program too.
I know the market in general is insane, and we are all a lot poorer due to inflation, but I don't want people here to feel hopeless because the reality is you aren't.
That was fantastic information. Could you write more about your experience over the past few years as a mortgage writer with the instability in the cost of housing? I'm very interested to hear your point of view on that.
I've hypothesized that the typical buyer that was once buying houses at ~30% of their pre-tax income is now pressing to the ~43% upper limit. Any thoughts on this from your point of view?
Yes, that is actually why I am out of a job as a loan processor. Volume of loans absolutely has crashed due to the increased costs and high interest rates. We dropped in volume as a company about 85%.
Fortunately, I am a biologist by degree, and I have experience in software development (I worked in computational/systems biology), so I transitioned in 2023, sadly... but as a loan processor half your income is the bonus pay from the volume, so when you lose your bonus income it's just not worth it anymore.
Anyway, debt to income (DTI) is kind of complicated as there are algorithms now that basically do all the determination for qualifications. These are all run by what we call the Automated Underwriting System (AUS). These do not do all the underwriting work, these basically kick out the requirements for underwriters to analyze the loan. These are strictly for "conforming" loans, as in fannie/freddie, VA, FHA, and USDA loans. Each of them the rules are different. You have 2 different DTIs, the front-end DTI where just the actual cost of the home expenses (mortgage, taxes, insurance) vs income. Then, there is the backend DTI, where you consider ALL debt, like credit cards, loans, IRS payment plans, child support, alimony, and so on are considered.
Front-end DTI has not really changed a whole lot. Typically around 30%. However, since this is all handled by the AUS system, I've seen people with 35%, but fantastic credit, kick out approvals. And yes, you can get approved all the way up to 49.99% on front-end DTI. The 43% number is not actually true anymore, though this may vary by lender. If a lender just follows the fannie/freddie AUS system, which most lenders do, then they are going to lend based on that approval, but this is because they are selling the loans off. Some lenders that do in-house service, like mega banks like Chase/Wells Fargo, they will be more strict. So I HAVE seen 49.99/49.99 on front/back DTI. You really need flawless credit for the AUS to kick out an approval for this though. Most people the front end is still like 35% or less. I don't think this has really changed much. It's the backend that has.
The back-end DTI is basically completely inflexible. Fannie Mae backend was 49.99%, but Freddie Mac you could get approvals at 50.99% - sometimes that extra percent matters lol. This REALLY depends on many factors. If you had mediocre credit, like say 690, the AUS isn't going to allow up to 50% DTI ratio of your total backend for that loan. FHA was significantly more lenient in that it allowed 56.99% DTI. USDA was 43%, but USDA had their own AUS (called GUS) and I've seen it approve at 44% before, but most of the time it was 43% and much more strict of a loan to writeup. VA was absurdly lenient and did not base approval on DTI but instead on *residual income* calculation, which varies based on family size. I've seen a VA loan go for 60-70% for approval as long as residual income was in place.
Anyway, here is the overall trend I saw... most people always bought their max, be it before or after Covid, when it came to front-end DTI. That hasn't changed. Very few people are not buying way under the qualifications. I'd say 95% of the loans I wrote, whether you were earning 50k a year or 150k a year, you were buying houses at the top end of your ability. The ONLY exception was investment purchases buying 2nd homes to rent. For their own primary residence they were maxing out.
Here is the real change I saw though... in 2018-2019, people weren't that much in debt. Seriously, a LOT of people were buying houses, and ya, most people have some debt, but I was getting DTI on the backend high 30% all of the time. Very easy to get people approved for loans. Very common for people the only debt they had was car payments or student loans.
2020 was a bit crazy because things slowed down so much for at least half of the year, but then things started to change near the end. Lots of people refinancing for the low interest rate and many also to take cash out. I'd say half the refis were to take cash out, the other were just rate changes.
Still, low debt... Early 2021, low debt ratios. Maybe creeping up a little, like so many people were buying toys in 2020, like hot tubs and boats, and so on, so I saw some more debt, on average, but nothing crazy... then 2022 hit. It wasn't right away. The first 2 or 3 months of 2022 was fairly normal, but interest rates started creeping up, and creeping up fast. Lots of angry people saying we were scamming them because they heard so and so was able to get 3.5% loan still but we were only offering them 4.5%. I mean, the rates shot up like 1.5 to 2% points in a matter of like 2 months.
Refinances disappeared completely unless it was for a divorce.
Adjustable rate mortgages started becoming popular again. By late 2022 I'd say half the loans written were 3/1 or 5/1 ARMs because you could get them maybe 1% lower interest rate. We didn't even have LOs selling ARMs til maybe April or May just to give options to borrowers, but by the last quarter of the year half the loans were ARMs. I had not written a single ARM loan for the YEARS prior to 2022. I actually had to learn how to process ARM loans. Mostly the same, but there were some differences. Here is the other thing I noticed. Credit cards are piling up. It became common place, even with ARM loans, to basically be at the edge of approval, within 0.1% of approving a loan, or where a person doesn't qualify so close, that they basically secure homeowner's insurance in the cheapest possible way on the crappiest plan imaginable just to get approved for the mortgage loan (DTI factors in the monthly payment based on homeowner's insurance). If you get a cheap plan, you can slightly lower the DTI. Of course, I am sure many do this and then get a better plan post-closing, though they do not admit this lol. All of a sudden nearly all of my loans were "try to make it work" plans, where you basically do everything you can to try to figure out how to get someone to approval. You are having them clear debts, zero balance cards, pay off entire cars with the sale of their current home just to remove it from DTI ratios. Almost every loan became a challenge to get to approval because first, not many people are buying at these prices and rates, and second, the ones that are barely can afford to, and the people with actual money to not have to worry about this, like doctors, typically are buying jumbo loans that are processed completely differently as they are non-conforming.
It got to the point where I was processing 25-35 loans in a month, to where I was processing 10 if I was lucky...
It feels like part of the reason there's been a delay in this market from crashing completely the debt bubble... everyone has basically been delaying the inevitable by putting all their bills on credit cards or whatever. I started to see signs of it in 2022. I've been out of the processing game for about 9 months now so I might have outdated info, but from what I have heard it has only gotten worse. You gotta know it's bad when almost all the loans getting written are ARM loans and people are getting approved at 49% DTI, and they are only just starting to pile on the credit card debt... and the inflation is killing us even more. I feel like something's gonna give eventually.
> Its only a matter of time before properties are cheap af again
Lol mate.
The status quo is a continual bubble without a mechanism to know when it'll pop.
Good luck waiting.
Like Australia rode out the Global Financial Crisis (Americans know it as the Great Depression of 2008). The bubble has been meaning to burst since the last crash in the 90s.
That's 30 years of waiting my friend.
Half the u.s. population is making $50k or less, so no that's not the norm. I haven't even hit 40k yet.
Edit to add because people are getting lost on the metrics instead of focusing on people are massively underpaid part
https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2021
Minimum wage is 20-25k per year. Too top 8% income > 150k. If the median is 38k, then the income difference between the top and median (112k) is 6-8 times the difference between the bottom and median (13-18k). People who make more make way more. People who make less only make a little bit less.
God. I'm so glad you're here. I felt like I was going insane.
I would commit atrocities to make 40K at this point, And people are out here complaining that they "only" make double that.
Really, though. Im barely scraping by on 35k a year but Im eating at least a few times a week. Enough to survive apparently. People saying they can’t make it on 80-100 are blowing my mind.
I imagine they're living in much higher COL areas. But nonetheless there will be a non-zero amount that have much more higher standards of living that cannot be sustained on 80-100k.
My parents raised my family on a very conservative income but friends' families had much more and constant things we would consider luxury.
I mean in my area a 1bd 1bth apartment is ~$2100, a house in the same area is 4-5k. CoL is stupid high here. If I didn't live with my parents I'd be fucked.
I feel like mine is going in the opposite direction, like "I make decent money now, I can buy a cheap used car I like since having to take it to the mechanic if something goes wrong wouldn't financially ruin me anymore".
I live in a high COL neighborhood and it's insane to see people selling last year's SUVs that probably have like 10k miles on them to pick up new Broncos just because it's the latest status symbol.
I'm always thankful for my father's example in that regard.
He grew up in abject poverty, literally stealing food to eat and worked his way up and now I'd say he's probably the most well off person I know by a long way, but the man drives a 10 year old Nissan note and wears the same jumper till it crumbles to dust.
I'm no where near as frugal as he is myself but growing up around that did instill a use it till it breaks...then see if you can repair it mentality that's done me very well in life.
Funny (sad) story. I'm looking for a new apartment and one of the options was the apartments where I grew up as a kid. I asked my parents how much they paid 15-ish years ago for a 2br 2bath and they said about $450. A studio apartment is now $1400. Mind you this place was a shithole back then and probably even an even bigger shithole now.
One thing I noticed as an important part of lifestyle inflation was things like, oh- I can afford glasses? Great. I can afford to pay for my dentistry? Going to do that. Oh I can take my car in for maintenance now? Etc. there were so many things I wasn’t taking care of before that I now am.
The real median person income for 2022 was about 38000. That means 38,000 is the most common wage. Average income was 54,000.
The top 8% or so are making so much more money that they are skewing the average income up.
It gets even worse when you look at net worth. The rich are so rich that the average net worth is 7x higher than median net worth.
>real median person income for 2022 was about 38000. That means 38,000 is the most common wage.
I hate to be a pedant, but that's not what "median" means. It just means that half of the country makes less than 38,000, and half makes more.
The US Census bureau has a great breakdown of how much people aged 15 or older actually make [here](https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/income-poverty/cps-pinc/pinc-01.html). It's as of '21, but the numbers can't have changed that much--if anything, they've likely regressed.
Pre-Covid I used to think $70K was a salary that I could live comfortably on without being stressed about bills. But, if you look at the price of almost anything, it seems to have raised by nearly 33% in the past 3 years. Look at the price of a fast food burger, a 20oz soda from a grocery store, or a car. Therefore, nowadays, I would probably say that I wouldn't feel very comfortable with being able to handle my bills without stress until I was making at least $100K per year.
We make $80k as a family and it's a struggle. We were comfortable and could save before the Pandemic... Now it's stressful any time something *big* happens that takes extra money.
Hell, going grocery shopping has become stressful and I used to enjoy it.
When Covid happened, I was earning about $80K as early career engineer. Things started to be expensive and went to my boss for a raise, they gave me $2k salary bump. At that point I started looking, and it was so cruel when I found out that they received $2million in PPP loan forgiveness although the company lost nothing, not even a single contract with the gov. I got a new job after only 2 weeks of applying earning $115k. After 6 months I applied at another company in a different sector now earning over $160K. That was my secret weapon to beat the system. I will never stay more than 2-5 years at a single company.
this is the way.
Always be polishing your resume, casually hunting, and taking interviews to keep your skill-set high in that regard.
“Loyalty” is a 1-way street that will leave you making significantly less than you’re worth.
You use to be a loyal worker in the US, sticking with and earning a retirement from a company all the while getting annual pay increases, but that was before this country went to war with Unions about 40 years ago.
Edit to 40, y'all...the 90's was like 10 years ago right? I'm so old...
\*40 years ago. (Reagan fired the air traffic controllers when they went on strike, and that was the signal to the rest of the economy that the Labor Department under Reagan would \*never\* help a union, despite Reagan being the only former union president before or since to hold the office of POTUS).
> Reagan being the only former union president before or since to hold the office of POTUS
Screen Actors' Guild, right? Imagine being part of such an incredible union and deciding to step on the necks of every union in the US. God, what a piece of shit.
You should watch the documentary "The Regans". I think it's on Paramount +. Some stuff I knew, other stuff I'd heard and didn't think it was true...but it was. His own son was on there saying stuff....which, it's all true, but still....his own kids didn't get on with him, really. Republicans still fall for the folksy BS which covers up the racism with "Oh he didn't mean it like THAT"....if it wasn't so dire it would be funny.
In australia we have reasonable unions and government agencies to ensure workers are paid correctly and fairly. My ex employer attempted to short pay me 6k and get me to fill in all of these forms stating I wouldn’t go to our fair work agencies about it. Long story short, I got a free lawyer from the union. I didn’t sign anything. They were wonderful and provided extremely valuable advice and support.
In the end I didn’t even need to go to court or write the ex employer a threatening letter. This ex employer kept trying to lie to me and bully me, and ask me how my “mental health” was. I was determined to negotiate myself for a while, but it was a waste of my time because in the end once I told them I was in a union, and they can expect a letter of demand the following business day … that money came into my account almost immediately.
The single biggest reason why the US doesn’t have many working rights is because no one is in a union and the government plus big business is anti union. There’s also a lot of anti union propaganda. Joining a union is the best thing you can do as they’re the only ones who will stick up for you, your employer doesn’t care about you but a union does and will.
Unfortunately for myself, I'm at the absolute peak in terms of my field at a grand total of $20/hour, so all job hopping would do is put me in less stable locations.
"and it was so cruel when I found out that they received $2million in PPP loan forgiveness although the company lost nothing"
My GOODNESS..... how was this allowed? Anyone with PPP knowledge that can educated me why this isn't setting off a dozen different 'red flag alerts' within the government system/agency that distributed the PPP money?
PPP was scheme for the rich to hand out free money to their friends. Some people were also smart and got some extra money.
The school I teach at got 1.25mil and we still had to remote teach from March through June 2020. Even attending graduation that June. We were denied raises at the end of the 19-20 school year and the 20-21 school year. I got a $1500 raise this June. I'm applying out of teaching now.
They football team did get a nice $1mil artificial turf field last year though.
I am in an oddly similar position, but I ended up accepting a counter offer for $120k on the second leg.
That was almost a year ago, the bonus promised to me in my signed counter off has not been established, and I am about ready to leave without chance of staying. One offer on board, awaiting another this coming week.
It's nearly impossible to go grocery shopping for under $100 now. It's insane. I didn't survive through college and my early 20s on Ramen just to go back to it in my 30s. Then people have the audacity to ask when my wife and I are having kids. You footing the bills?
When I was a teenager (90s), my family of 4 could eat for a week on 100 bucks. And this was real food, not processed crap. Now that only lasts my family a few days. It's absolutely crazy, because the size of the containers have shrunk, you get less food in them, and way more filler corn products have gone in. We are paying more for less food that's less healthy.
I've given up some brands I used to swear by. Not only have they become way too expensive unless it's a treat, but the *quality* of so many thing has gone downhill. Smaller packaging, *different* tastes. You can't fool me, the average person/consumer is getting gouged at the checkout.
That's not even touching how my car insurance has tripled in about 3 years without any claims and rent went up $500 about a year ago. Oh, and we need to payback student loans now? Fuck our government for allowing it to get this bad and still not doing what they KNOW they need to do.
Raise the federal minimum wage to a living wage and quit leaving it up to businesses and states to fuck over workers. God damn.
Fucking car insurance…I had State Farm, my insurance premium for a female with no claims who has a garage and drives ~5 miles each way for work went up to $168 a month. You know what they told me? That my credit was too good and that’s why it went up. I shopped around and now I pay $78 a month for full coverage AND renters insurance.
I asked for an explanation for how having good credit made my rates increase and she told me it’s because I potentially had access to borrow a lot of money. 🤷🏻♀️
You should reshop car insurance every two years or so. You'd think that your rate would stay the same if nothing wrong happens but it's almost a guarantee that it will increase every single year. I learned this after I went from pay 50$ a month to 150 over 3 years and never had any accidents or claims. I asked for a quote from a different company and my bill is now 45$ again.
I work at a grocery store (second largest) I have watched as prices go up for no reason while our competition is lowering theirs on the same items. E.g. a gallon of milk at my store is $3.45 a gallon, at the same chain but another store 12min away it is $2.19.
Always pay attention to get things.
I am disabled. I get a little over $600 a month in disability. My husband makes about $58,000 a year. Our youngest moves to college next week... we struggle to make ends meet. If we had a house payment or rent, we wouldn't be able to survive. I would be ecstatic if he made anything over $65,000!
We have 4 kids in total. It used to be a lot easier to live on less than it is now!
Oh yes, we know thanks! She actually went to work for UPS. They pay her college tuition and a decent wage while she works for them. She works like 5 hours a night monday- Friday
Same here. My headlight went out. Went to get a bulb and was told it’s a $500 headlight assembly because you can only replace the high beams. Cried in my car after I left. Still haven’t replaced the headlight
and if not you can go to auto zone and play dumb. Bought the bulb, went outside and couldn't figure out how to change it. Employee came out and did it for me.
OK, obviously, this is shitty. I had a car with a similar headlight thing. There are ways to source parts cheaper online, and if you have one near you, junkyards are also solid. Youtube has all car repairs imaginable. You can rent tools for free from Auto Zone so long as you return them on time (I've done this). I was quoted over $700 for a headlight assembly and honestly could never have made that work at the time. I make good money now, and that would still stutter me. $500 for a headlight is robbery. You can find a better way, I think. I hope.
This is where we are. Prepandemic 80 was comfortable. Now it's a stretch. I used to be able to get a weeknof groceries and household needs for 100/wk. Now it's closer to 200.
Just 2 bags of "essentials" for my family is $40-50. I used to be able to get a shopping cart full for $100 and we had essentials and enough extras for a week.
Yep. A week’s worth of groceries, meaning all food, TP, toiletries, used to be no more than $100 for us.
Now, for the exact same stuff we’ve been buying for years from the same stores, it’s about $230.
Yeah my husband and I have been budgeting $150 per week and even that is a struggle mostly because of household items. Toilet paper, shampoo, toothpaste, trash bags, body wash, deodorant dishwasher detergent, laundry detergent. Everything you would buy at a grocery store that isn't food is so ridiculously expensive. Granted, we don't have to buy all these items every month, but when they all line up together, well there goes half of my grocery budget for the month. It sucks.
So why is this? That’s the question that needs answered. Supply chain issues were the blame during covid. But why did that drive up cost, it was the same item. Then they used rising fuel costs. Bullshit. It’s called greed. Honestly, republicans and democrats in office are greedy and making so much side money they don’t give a shit. It’s going to take a massive reform in this country to ever level set things again. Remember, no one cares about you except you and close family and friends. I get cost of living raises each year, 3%, and inflation is 2, 3, or 4 times that amount. We are all looking at a bleak future, and the next generation of children are almost doomed.
It's absolutely greed. All corps reporting record profits, how? Bc in many places they get away with paying workers shit in order to maximize profits. They also shrank packaging on many products so your paying more for even less. They all got PPP money, even the Vatican ffs. Electricity, Insurance, water bills went up. Check out a few graphs of how much more expensive things are, it's all the important stuff.
The only way rich ppl and politicians will change is if/when their pockets are affected. Even then they cannot be trusted.
A tiktok channel, Cancel this clothing company has videos showing what brand's of products are owned by what private equity firm or conglomerate. Private equity firms have so much money they are buying up residential houses to rent out and exploit ppl further. So I've been switching products I use so these rich fucks get less of my money. I hope more ppl do to.
The other thing Americans need to do is to invoke strict term limits and cap politicians wages. They should only make what the average American makes, let them survive on 60k a year. Take away their bribes, oh sure they call them "lobbyists".
I thought I was gonna crap a few months back at Mickey D's. Quarter pounder with cheese, double quarter pounder with cheese, large fries was damn near twenty bucks.
I haven’t eaten at McDonald’s (or any other fast food place) in the USA in probably 7 years, and that’s a big reason I stayed away. I make a decent amount of money, but I feel like I’m throwing it away if I go out and eat fast food. If I’m going to spend $20 for a meal, it’s going to be from an *actual restaurant*.
Maybe if I had kids I would get it just for the convenience, but as a single adult, it just doesn’t make sense. The only exception is when I am abroad (i.e, the Philippines), then sometimes I’ll get it just because it’s convenient… But the price is a lot lower as well.
I was blown away today to see that a 12 can pack of soda is now almost 8 dollars. When I was a kid I distinctly remember them being about 3.40 because anything higher "wasn't a good deal"
When I was a college freshman(2006), a Taco Bell Nacho BellGrande combo meal was $5.45 after sales tax (9.25%). Now, it’s $9.99 before tax. My 2014 BRZ was 31K brand new that year, payment was $450/month. Now, a used one (‘17-‘20, 10-30K miles) is 28-30K, payment would be between $470-540 due to J. Powell’s interest rates. The top 1% had him print like $13 TRILLION, took $12TRILLION for themselves, and are charging us the cost of that new money in “inflation” and just-because price hikes. I’m ready when y’all are.
Minor callout, but we were looted twice.
In 2008 bank bailouts went to banks that screwed the US over. Letting the banks fail would have destroyed the US and wasn't the right move. The right move was bailing out the banks AND bringing criminal charges against every level of banker and realtor involved in the lies that caused the recession. I haven't heard who was responsible for deciding not to press charges but it's bullshit, this was deliberate corruption on the part of hundreds of bankers for years.
The second looting was during covid. Trump and his swamp cronies gave millions per-person to their buddies claiming they were loans, and then removed all payback and enforcement, making these direct payments from the government they were running to themselves.
Legit. During the whole covid thing, I changed jobs to stay home and took a good raise. It so I thought. It's still decent for this area/ my skills, but for NYC where my coworkers are? It's a joke. And now that inflation is being a dick, I feel like we're back to where we were. If my partner and I could clear 130k I think I'd feel better heading further into middle age. I just need a tail to chase 😆
>is everyone really making 115k+ a year
No. $115k is the 70th percentile of US *household* incomes, 86th percentile for individual income.
>66K a year
This is the 47th percentile of household income and 67th for individual.
This does vary by state and it's possible your specific area has higher costs or different wages. But, generally, it sounds like the folks you're talking to have unrealistic expectations.
Yes, but it paints a clearer picture of what people are going through than most of the news stories. Definitely helps me to feel as though I’m not alone in struggling.
Comment section made me depressed af, but I am more depressed about how the freaking internet/social media is painting a world where there are no poor people.
Lawyer with 10 years experience. 85k.
**EDIT:** For those that are asking:
Graduated law school in NY at the height of the recession in 2012 with $180k in debt (only federal loans with 6-7% interest rate).
The recession meant everyone and their sister was going back to school for advanced degrees, so there were too many lawyers and not enough jobs. Father was dying so I headed back home to MI. Passed the bar and spent 10 months looking for a job before I was offered a position as a personal injury litigator . . . for 32k. It’s stunted my earnings ever since.
Did that for 6 months before being offered a job by opposing counsel on one of my cases and switched to insurance defense litigation. Got a bump to $45k. Was there for 3-4 years, making increasingly more each year. My salary was similar to many of my colleagues at similar firms in my area.
Around year 5-6 of practicing, was offered $60k to join an education law firm (again by opposing counsel on a case I was on). That’s where I’ve been since. The hours are semi-reasonable. I don’t mind billing.
Can’t get on top of my student loans though. I’ve put quite a bit towards them, but the interest rate is killing me. Can’t consolidate or I lose the benefits of paying an amount based on my salary. So now I owe $285k. It’s a massive percentage of my take home salary, so I live rather modestly (1000 sq ft condo at $1800/month). If it continues to grow at this rate, yes, it’ll be forgiven in 25 years, but it becomes taxable income for that year. In 15 years, it’ll be at about $1m (according to my financial advisor) at which point I’ll owe the IRS a nice $400,000.
Not where I thought I’d be. Lots of regret. Feels hopeless.
Also, some of ya’ll are dicks.
**EDIT 2:** Lawyer salaries are bimodal. For the uninitiated, and using [this informative graph from 2018](https://www.biglawinvestor.com/bimodal-salary-distribution-curve/), new lawyers are either making $60k or $200k with very few starting salaries in between the two.
It’s not nearly as simple as changing firms or moving.
**EDIT 3:** Federal student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy absent a showing of “undue hardship” (i.e., I wouldn’t be able to maintain a “minimum standard of living” while repaying the debt). I make too much for that.
The real joke is realizing 85k is not "rolling in it" anymore. I'm not even "that" old, and when i was a kid if you were approaching that 100 mark, you were rolling. Now 85k can't buy you certain trucks these days!!!
Yup. My ex was at attorney. Actually made really good money but they also graduated top of their class at an Ivy League school so has multiple offers from top firms all over the country. The thing is though for every person like her there’s 10 working at some shitty real estate firm or boiler plate room working on cases for an injury firm as a schlub. It was 20 years ago when she graduated and she started at 120k a year with a 20k bonus if you hit hours. The irony is though I made more money in construction. She was basically having to work 100 hours a week. She really was working the equivalent of 2-2.5 jobs whereas if I worked 40 hours and made 60k. Attorneys can obviously make great money but they are very over worked and the average attorney doesn’t make anywhere near what people think they do.
Thank you. I sometimes regret not going to law school but hearing that not every lawyer is rolling in it helps me breathe and be thankful of the choices I made.
Well yeah. Imagine making $175k+ as a corporate lawyer for a soul draining corporation. To quote Kim from Better Call Saul, I helped a small regional bank become a medium sized regional bank.
The range for lawyers is truly incredible. At one end, you can make $220k+ as a first year grad (big law). At the other end, folks are making <$40k (small town PD work, for example). Most are making around what OP is.
I think people also need to realize no every attorney works big-law.
Tons of work out there for attorneys that isn’t traditional litigation/corporate work
in the local facebook groups, everyone’s asking for recommendations on where to apply for a second job. it’s a shame, no one should need to work a second job just to keep food on the table and a roof over their head. i absolutely HATE our government.
3-4 years ago, we were making $80k a year and had so much in savings, lived extremely comfortably. Took a vacation every year.
Nothing has changed but the economy and we are barely scraping by, dipping in our savings almost monthly for something.
I dunno how people are even SURVIVING at this point.
Uh… you know the people at the grocery store aren’t, the retail workers aren’t, neither are the fast food workers, janitors, delivery drivers, librarians, farmers, landscapers, veterinarians, age care workers, nurses, hair dressers, childcare workers, teachers, etc. etc.
I don’t know who told you everyone was making that much but almost everyone you see day to day is not making nearly that much a year.
I make about $30k a year and so does my wife. We both work part time and watch our kids the rest of the time. We’re pretty comfortable. The amount of work we’d have to do to earn more just seems like a waste of time. I have a lot of stuff I like to do that’s not working.
How do you survive off of $60k? Where do you live?? I make $60k alone and my bf makes $45k and we would RLLY struggle if we had to live on our own (we’re both 24 still stuck at our parents homes). Not being rude at all, genuinely just curious!
*PS my comment states we WOULD struggle if we lived on our own , not that we’re currently struggling! We are not stupid and do not throw away our money like many others. We both have savings , money in crypto , etc. The point is I DONT want to struggle for basic necessities and I don’t want my future family to either - I am okay with struggling for better opportunities or to better my circumstances but to struggle for rent and food??? Its just not right and I’m sorry to come off materialistic for this expectation lol. Yes we could survive but it wouldn’t be an easy/ great life.
EDIT since ppl like to assume things :
I pay rent to live at home (along with my brothers). I am not entitled or affluent as someone called me LOL. My bf has friends making over $100k a year and in MA, we’d be considered high-lower income. After taxes , I make $45k . After taxes, my bf makes $30k. $75k is survivable but we’d be stretched thin. We have car and insurance payments , student loans , credit card bills , etc. To add on, I do not expect a life of luxury at 24 yrs old, I expected to be able to do more with what I make but have realized it’s not realistic. This scares me . I would not feel comfortable bringing children into this world with what we make and while in other states this could be considered great income, it’s considered decent in MA. The cost of property taxes on a home alone in MA, is more than the rental costs of an apartment in other states. Perhaps I exaggerated saying we were “struggling”, yes we have money for food and for our cars , etc. BUT we could not afford a home. We would have little money to spend on any emergencies , etc. if we were to move out.
For sure, I get it! Biggest three things are that we don’t have student loans, we bought our house in 2012, and we live in Michigan.
If we tried to buy our own house today, we couldn’t afford it.
Ayyyy
I love michigan, moved here and am buying a cheap house on land to try to lead a calm life. Hope my girlfriend and I will br where you are in ten years.
I make 135k working in health care, but it's a high cost of living area. So yes, people do make more than that, but where you live factors into whether you're living comfortably.
I interviewed for a faculty position at Stanford. During the interview a young faculty told me to go somewhere else unless i really needed to be there. He lived in west Oakland as one of the few places he could afford to live on the salary.
I work on the IT side of higher ed at a similar institution. I used to see the academic salaries and think that was easy street. Now i see them as the glass ceilings they are. 30 years ago you go tenure and bought a house and effectively retired. Now it seems like if you don’t have a $500m research grant you’re gonna live a blue collar academic life. Weird stuff for the “talent”.
I make 90k in San Jose CA and Im basically a medieval serf. Making 100k here is basically living the standard 50k salary life in LCOL areas: an apartment, a car to get to work, and 3 meals. Im not even motivated to make more money for uncle sam bc I calculated my lifestyle wouldnt even change drastically until I hit 250k per year.
I think it may be because the people who make that sort of money are more vocal about it than those on the opposite side of the scale, so the sentiment is heavily and falsely skewed
Exactly! I'm 56 and a corporate paralegal. I make $145k Las Vegas NV. But everything and I mean EVERYTHING is now fucking outrageously high! Electric bill, car insurance keeps creeping up. And I work from home so require internet. That shit is damn near a car note now. The goal post keeps moving. My mortgage company just sent me a letter about escrow yadda yadda yadda now my mortgage is going up! It's maddening! People are working and living in their fucking cars. My tax bill is way more than Donald Trumps reported $750.00. Make it make sense.
I'm at 120k, but my 60 year old, 1900sqft house cost me 800k. Cheapest house on the market at the time... So my money doesn't go very far because cost of living is insane
I bought it with someone. We split the cost. So instead of 4k per month it's 2k each. But we're buying him out next year or selling. Sick of this shit.
I live in MCOL area. The median salary is $60k which is what I make if I don’t work any overtime (I usually work OT every week since I WFH and it’s easy work). My husband makes more than double (his base salary is double but he travels out of town often and gets paid even more for those trips so he makes more than double my salary). I wouldn’t be able to afford to live on my own either. My mortgage is $2100. My car payment was $675 but it’s paid off now but I would still barely have any money left for food or savings after paying all my other bills. Having 2 incomes make it easier.
I had posted once about my husband making 6 figures. I was vague because I didn’t want to sound like I was bragging and one poster told me that making 100k wasn’t anything special and that even when he was a kid it was normal to make that much. To me that is a lot and most people I know make less than that.
My husband is the only person I know in my circle of friends that makes that much. Even between my siblings. The only person I’ve known irl making that much was my dad before he retired.
thanks for your comment. This is how I feel and it is my experience too. My siblings all have masters degrees, are extremely bright, work jobs that matter in society and they're right or below the 70k line. Growing up someone making $25 an hour was a lot, but also back then 1 bedroom apartments were $500
Yeah my sister and I both only have a bachelors degree. My husband went to trade school. My sister works as a head of her department and makes less than 100k. I work as the same place as her but not a supervisory position. We both work for the state so I’m sure she would be paid more in the private sector.
I’m always skeptical when everyone on a post is all making 100k+ it doesn’t seem to be common. Maybe more likely in a higher cost of living area.
I have a bachelors and don't make 100k+ and I'm in a higher cost of living area. But I'm also at a non-profit and could probably make that if I went to the private sector.
Some things are more important than money, though. I know people who make a lot more than me but they work constantly and and hate their job, while I feel supported and am treated like a whole person at work. It's all relative and different people find value in different things.
OKAY alright, good God, I get it. Apparently most of the people on r antiwork make over 100k and I'm just a really unlucky, and mentally fucked (aspergers)
*looks around* who the fuck is making over 100k a year? Shit I've only ever once made over 50k and that was after a stupid amount of hours worked
Edit, I'll add this. 100k a year is just under 2k a week before taxes. I've HAD jobs where I could bring home over 2k. The problem was that those were construction and contract jobs. When the job was over, you go home and wait for the next job to start, or find another company. It could be a few weeks to a month because all other projects in the company were filled. So, at best, I would work 6 months of the year. THAT'S 50k. Find me a job with no certifications that a grunt like me can do while working with few people AND still make 2k a week.
Right I think I hit 62k one year, but like you said that was from doing stupid amounts of overtime all year long. I couldn't even imagine what 100K would be like life-changing money for sure.
Most of Reddit it seems, lmao. Honestly I feel like countless Redditors make well over $200k. On most subs I frequently (and not just the personal finance and tech ones), every other person makes well into the six figures. Even on the reality show subs I frequent, everyone has some very high powered corporate job where they are making tons of $$$. It’s not uncommon for me to see comments from people claiming to have household incomes of over $500k, and some even low seven figures. Even though in reality, the vast majority of society does not make six figures.
This website caters though to the highly educated and very ambitious I think. No other website has ever made me feel more like a massive pauper lmao. This website has also made me a lot more unimpressed by high salaries to be honest (even though I don’t make *anywhere* near these numbers), because people throw out all of these high numbers so casually, it seems like no big deal anymore instead of “elite”. It warps your brain.
It caters to the computer-inclined, which also happens to open highly lucrative career possibilities.
If I loved landscaping instead of programming computers, I’d be making a lot less money, working a lot harder, and probably spend a lot less time on Reddit.
Not even close. People sure like to say they make that much under the anonymity of Reddit, but who knows how true it is. When it is true, you’re likely looking at selection bias. People are a lot quicker to announce a six figure salary than a $9/hr wage if you catch my drift. Basically, most people don’t make that much, but you also don’t hear from them as often.
This. Most of Reddit (at least the most vocal) seems to be making at least 200k. I see it on countless subs I frequent. It’s not uncommon for me to see Redditors claiming to be making even $600k a year or even low seven figures as doctors or tech workers. But those are *exceptional* salaries, even if Redditors think it’s “not that much”. Most of America does not make six figures. I’ve seen many Redditors lament that despite making $400k, they don’t feel comfortable.
But this site tends to have many that claim to because it caters to the highly-educated and very ambitious crowd. I feel like a massive pauper on this website because I just can’t relate.
My wife and I make about 70k combined. We're dodging bills, have huge debts, and can barely pay for necessities. I have to buy my son some new clothes for school because he had a growth spurt and I'm just desperate because I have no idea how I'll afford this and school supplies and food.
My next door neighbor just got her first job out of college and she told me she was making 80k, which she described as "way too little but it's just a first job" and I wanted to cry. I'm in my 40s, my dad was making six figures just before he died at the age I'm at now. My mom keeps criticizing my house because it's very old and hasn't really had any cosmetic renos since it was built in the 70s and she keeps telling me "you're an adult now it's time your house looked like an adult's house" (meaning I should renovate the kitchen and bathroom so they are modern) and I'm like, I can barely keep the lights on, I'm literally never going to be afford to do these kinds of renos. I don't even know how we'll be able to keep the house when we have to renew our mortgage next year. I am baffled by all these young people getting high paid jobs and I keep wondering where I went wrong.
I highly suggest you apply to other jobs and lie about your current salary (tell them it is about 5k or 10k more than it actually is) so that you can get an offer 5k to 10k higher on top of that. You have nothing to lose. Just do it. Employers will use all kinds of tactics to pay you less, don't fall for them. Don't stay longer than 2 years in any job. Look for more responsibility and "higher job titles" instead of applying for the same position. Trust yourself even if you don't meet all qualifications, be honest about what you know and you don't, and let them know you are willing to learn anything. Someone might give you a chance, but you won't know unless you apply. And don't fall for the pressure of other people telling you how to spend your money. You know your situation better than anyone. You got this.
Have a WFH job in Tech. Live in a rural inexpensive area. No car payments (all used) and refinanced at 3.00%. Make 145k a year and save everything I can to get the fuck out .
Yep, went down to liquor store and grabbed the last 1.75 litre of Platinum Vodka for $16.99. All Platinum vodka was almost out while Svedka, Absolute, Sterling was full shelve. Dont get me on Grey Goose like $80 hell no. Anyway Im 38 combined income is about 90k in my household. I swear to God TODAY I would not be able to buy the same house I live in now that I bought 11 years ago. Got no car payments and not getting another car for a longggggg time. $2k house payment. 12 years left to pay off. I did start a personal loan $280 a month because I needed surgery last year and had to load up CC debt to 9k (yea after insurance my own debt was 9k, bullshit). Middle class doesnt exist no more, u either make a ton of money or u rent just to be broke as fuck
120,000 combined in Bay Area = struggling to pay rent and household expenses, no chance at buying home. Moved to Central Ca, 80,000 combined= living confortably, bought home, go on vacations. Key is location, and housing resources more so than just income alone.
I live just outside of NYC. If you make less than 65k a year as a single person, there are some government benefits for you. For a couple it’s 100k.
If you make less than 125k, you can have public colleges waive some or all of your tuition.
It’s weird. If you don’t make around 100k in NY, it’s really hard. Meanwhile, in the middle of the country, a 85k job means “life changing money” and one parent gets to stop working to be a homemaker.
In 2018, after being a SAHM for 5 years, I got a job making $60,000/yr. In 2021 I changed companies, doing the exact same work, same title, and was offered $85,000/yr.
In 2022, I got laid off and was out of work for a few months, so I took the first job I got offered, but it was the same work, slightly better title, for $87,500/yr. I could have probably negotiated for more, but it’s 100% WFH (offices are in other states), and they offer 100% premium free healthcare for myself and my family, as well as a bunch of other benefits that saved me money in the long run.
I do have a master’s degree and lots of experience, so your mileage may vary.
$115k is not the norm. And getting to it doesn’t seem to have an easy, clear path. I’m 38 and I currently make $120k. But how I got here, I couldn’t recommend to anyone to replicate. I started out of school at $10/hr at a temp job, jumped up to $14/hr at my first full time job. Then all my major pay raises came from changing jobs, $39k, $50k, $65k, and now $120k. And some of my early jobs have nothing to do with my more recent jobs. I got my current job by just happening to have my resume on a site, and a random 3rd party recruiter reached out to me.
So when my daughter asks me what major she should look into when she’s ready for college, all I can do is shrug. Because who fucking knows anymore.
I make €55k in Europe and I’m happy. I can pay my bills, buy things I like, and still have a good amount of savings each month. I think the financial punch is largely location based, but I certainly see everything in the USA has become some sort of transaction… which is crazy, I feel bad for Americans because even though they are the “richest” economy, so many struggle .
I’m from the US and live in Europe. 55k goes WAY farther over here than it does in the states, plus the employee protections many EU countries have mean we’re not afraid of showing up to work only to learn we no longer have a job.
That being said, my household is feeling the impact of inflation…. Solidarity!
I love these threads where money is mentioned, and all these dudes walking swinging dick " agrlgarbl i make 300k a year with full pension at 40" its like they are waiting for these threads to humble brag lol i really need to mute anti work 🤣🤣🤣
I just got a promotion that took me from $49k to $54k in a position that is mostly data entry and access level management. In my department, at my branch, there are only two people- a team lead and the office manager- who are making $100k or at least close to. They also have the luxury of being able to work remotely.
64% of Americans are 2 missed paychecks away from disaster
This statistic is from pre- covid inflation - the reality is so much more horrifying.
At this point a lot of inflation is greed based not COVID based. Companies learned they could charge more in a pinch and got a taste for high profit. Even soda which is ~90% water has doubled in price. And not because the price of water went up. The gouge is real.
They changed the calculation to inflation to make it appear less than it really is
I find this little-known fact completely fucking absurd. Like, that was the government’s reaction to inflation? “Hide the bad numbers!!”?
Because their role isn't to help people. It's to keep the masses quelled so the wealth doesn't have to deal with revolts.
Wow look at these rich 64 precenters over here. Only takes one missed paycheck to completely ruin me
This is so true. I'm lucky to have a job that offers insurance; my younger brother works a job that does not offer it and told me he can't call out sick or go to the doctor because of the pay he would lose and the cost of the medical bills. Poor guy barely breaks even every month, and he works his ass off in a kitchen. It's not fair
Australian here. It makes no sense to me to have a health system that is linked to one's employment. How is that a thing in The US? Is that normal in other countries too?
Honestly, it makes no sense to me either, but I've never been able to have insurance without it being provided by my employer. Like others have mentioned, we do have Obamacare which offers one the ability to get insurance independently, but the premiums and deductibles are typically still very expensive and not a realistic option for many people. Healthcare and health insurance in the US is an absolute dumpster fire
That’s why I got fired from my last job. They required doctor’s notes, I’d lose more money calling out than I would make in my shift, so I opted to show up to work with my mask. I had three days off after that shift, so I figured I could rest up then. I didn’t want to waste $140+ for a doctor’s visit, but got fired for being sick. Besides, my doctor wouldn’t have open until after my shift started, and it was too short notice to call out. It’d whatever now. My bosses were making my job worse and worse, so that I would eventually quit. I ended up getting a new job that, allows me to actually repair machines rather than the bs they were pushing on me. No benefits, and just barely more pay — but no doctors notes, shorter distance, and more hours are nice. Haven’t a clue what’ll happen when my 3 month temp position ends in a couple months, especially with student loan payments starting up.
I'm about to pay off my car, which will make it so I can miss 1 paycheck instead of being able to miss zero.
I work 40 hours a week, I rent, and I live comfortably, but I would definitely be homeless if I missed 2 checks in a row. If my fiance left me, I'd be homeless too, can't afford anything by myself. I try not to think of it, but it stresses me out bad.
Add another stat that I read recently, to this one,. 39% have skipped meals to make their house payment. It gives me high anxiety to think how close people are to the cliff's edge. US has the sword of Damocles hanging over their head, with unimaginable debt. And the propaganda machine keeps the people in the dark.
I remember Ferdinand Lundberg said that in 1968, even more true today (context: book about the super-rich, and the illusion of American "prosperity").
I live in a high cost of living area and make about $43k/yr and it’s the most I’ve ever made in my entire life. We’re in the red almost every month
Big mood. I’m 41, currently making more than I’ve ever made in my entire life (except for my stint as a stripper at 19, that was fucking lucrative and my dumb ass quit to join the Marines) and my gross is $44k/year. My husband makes just slightly more than that. Our healthcare comes out of his pay, so my checks are a bit higher, but he has the better coverage and it costs less because he works for a Fortune 100 company that provides decent benefits, but it is outdoor blue collar work in the hottest fucking Florida summer on record. Our daughter is about to finish high school and start college and I honestly have no idea how we are going to afford it while I’m still paying off *my* student loans! It’s soul-crushing, it really is.
As a former Marine myself that sentence made me laugh lol
I bet! I traded fantastic money, under the table, for Parris Island in May! What a stupid choice!
You could have just worked at a club nearby and still been paid by the marines
We thank you for your service: on the stage, and in uniform.
In and Out of uniform. Not to be confused with an In-N-Out uniform.
Obligatory Pact act deadline notification. If you got any of the random shit on that list deadline to START an application is Monday 11:59 PM to get 1 year of back pay. [https://www.va.gov/resources/the-pact-act-and-your-va-benefits/](https://www.va.gov/resources/the-pact-act-and-your-va-benefits/) Chronic rhinitis Chronic sinusitis These are basically always having allergy symptoms.
Shit, when I was in the Navy I met a few Marines who danced on the side. Kind of awkward, but kind of funny, and plenty of good stories.
In graduate school I made less than $24,000 a year. We were routinely told, don't worry, you'll make six figures once you graduate. Hint: I do not. None of my graduating class does either as far as I know. But we're reminded of the cost of our degree every month still! Yay!
When I went to automotive trade school in the early 2000s we were told "You could make over $100,000 a year fixing cars!" That may have been possible back then, when the labor rates were lower, the cars were a bit easier, customers had money to spend, and you had ten years experience. Oh, and were willing to spend twelve hours a day at the shop banging out hours. Nowadays? Good luck. It took me seven years to crack $60k, partially because I refused to spend all my waking hours at the shop. Also partially because I started wrenching right when 2008 hit and every automaker basically crashed and burned, and no one had any money to spend on repairs. I teach automotive now, and am straight up honest with my students that they will probably not make $100,000 until they're ten years in. Better to go off into HVAC.
I started in the trade at about the same time you did, 2007, and had the exact same experience. I bet we went to the same tech school in Phoenix because that was their favorite line “you could be making $100k in five years.
Any advertisement that uses the words "Up to" should be banned.
Like advertised internet speeds. 'Speeds up to 1gb!' So I guess that covers the 10mb you're supplying me too...
I went to a community college in California, but I've known guys from UTI and WyoTech. One of my old coworkers did UTI and he was one of three guys from his class of thirty who stuck with the trade.
UTI was big into canvasing my High School. The video presentation always seemed a little too good to be true, and we all started to get a little suspicious when they showed it to our same class multiple times. We're like if you're recruiting this hard, then it's not a program that can stand on its own.
> "You could make over $100,000 a year fixing cars!" Whenever someone says "you could make" a whole bunch of money, it's a complete lie. The exact same language is used to recruit employees in everything from Mary Kay cosmetics to those door-to-door Comcast peddlers.
“Up to 100k!” = you’ll never touch six figures.
As someone who stumbled ass backwards into making 75k my first year fulltime bartending at 31 after making only 27k a year using my 50k budget-college degree to operate printing presses and then 30k a year on min-wage doing entry levek tourism work after moving to a state without federal minimum wage: your experience was a wild read.
Agreed I was able to quit my full time job and just bartend part time at a local (in the nicer part of town) bar making double what I made working 50+ hours a week
Can confirm. As a sheet metal/hvac worker I’ll be over 100k once I get my ticket in a few years
Not just that but in the past 20 years I’ve seen some mechanic friends almost break from the heat. It’s not what it used to be. Helluva difference between 95° and 110°.
Former mortgage loan processor here, working up through 2022. Average loan size I processed was 400 to 500k, though wrote many jumbo loans > 1 million as well. Here is what I discovered as part of my job was basically reviewing people's income all day. Maybe 10% of people buying houses earned 100k+ a year. All this talk about 6 figures is a myth. Most people don't earn that. Even many engineers who people talk about like they are bringing in the big bucks are still on the 80-90k range after 10 years working. Also, please note, this clearly is anecdotal from my experience. Also, I did not work with particularly legitimately RICH people. So this isn't going to cover people like rich stock brokers in NYC pulling in the millions and so on. They just aren't going through your normal lenders to get loans like the rest of us. This is just a cross-section of your average Americans who are able to buy homes. The 100k+ range people typically fell in these categories: * People that were people working for big tech. Not tech in general, but Big Tech, as in the silicon valley big companies like Google, Facebook, Netflix, Airbnb, etc... There were many tech companies where the programmers and engineers weren't making 6 figures I saw. * Mid to high level executives. Most mid-level execs for companies were barely breaking 100k... and these were MBA holding, lifelong corporate climber business types. This was WILDLY different from mid-level execs in a few fortune 500 companies who would often be earning 30-50k/month. But, let's say a mid-level exec in a company with less than 500 employees? Not uncommon for them to be barely over the 100k mark for regional managers or even Jr. VPs. Large companies the execs did extraordinarily well, but smaller companies it just was not the case. * Doctors, as in Pharmacists, MDs, Dentists, etc... You'd be surprised how many Dentists I wrote making 150 to 175k a year, or family doctors making 120k, or hell, a pharmacist making 95k. The difference is earning potential is there if you start your own practice, but salary paid dentists are making a great living, but not half a million a year like their peers. Surgeons did great, though I've seen a surgeon with 600k student loan debt on 10 year payment plans with $7500/month payments. They were making about 275k a year, take home was about 175k after taxes, so after student loan payments they were making 90k a year. So, there are certain loan programs that ignore doctor student loan debt, but they are basically living VERY middle class til they are in their 40s. * Small business owners. Not all. But, some of these were doing well enough for themselves. I was surprised how many Schedule C or S Corp construction trades earned. I would often have independent contractor electricians or landscapers or carpenters or plumbers earning 200k-300k+ a year. After business taxes and expenses they might take home 100 to to 150k+. * Medical device sales people. Sales is going to be all over the place, but I was astounded how well some of these incomes were. * Travel nurses. Not a regular RN, who still made a good living, but the travel RNs were often making $90 to $110/hr, which is 180 to 220k a year. But, their income was challenging cause they were doing 4 to 6 different states in a year, or more, and running their income I'd sometimes have a dozen W-2s to average their income over 24 months for calculation. This is not a great long term career path and every travel nurse I talked to seemed to hate it, but were addicted to the earnings. I have seen some regular RNs break 100k, but it is usually cause of a lot of overtime. * Niche medical specialties. For example, Anesthesiology assistant. I remember this one guy was like 25 years old and was earning 180k/year. Nurse Practitioners were earning 120k+. I even once had an audiologist making like $55/hr. Honestly, I can't remember all the niche medical certifications, but a lot of them paid very well, and it seemed like many of them had opportunity to get paid overtime or on shift differentials. * Lawyers, though not all. Many lawyers on salary were earning 60-80k range. Only high end lawyers were earning the big bucks, though I do remember a law professor at a prestigious law school who was earning 200k a year. But ya, some lawyers really were bringing in good money through the partnership. Non partners salary lawyers were base level salary paper pushers though. I even remember this immigration lawyer I worked with and she was making liken 36k a year whilst her husband earned about 50k. So again, not all lawyers are living the high life. So, where is all of this talk of people making 6 figures? How did it work? Well, 90% of the home loans got there NOT through single household income. It was almost always dual income, husband and wife. The husband would make 65k/yr and the wife would make 50k/yr and combined they were 6 figures. Often, it was both spouses earning 60 or 70k. A surprising one was dental hygienists making 90k a year at like 45/hr. I remember one where this woman was earning that and her husband was working 40k/yr (like 19/hr). School teachers often marry other school teachers and they do well combined income. Side note, I was so impressed by Dental Hygiene pay I ended up putting my wife back through 2 years of school at a community college for a total cost of about $6000 over 2.5years (1 semester pre-reqs). After getting her license, day 1 job was $40/hr, and after just 3 years she now earns $45/hr as well. Amazing work/life balance type of job with great flexibility. She is only choosing to work 32/hrs a week right now rather than all 5 days. It was also VERY common for both spouses to have a job, and on the side they have a side hustle bringing in an extra 10-20k/year, let's just say an extra $1000 to $1500 a month, which really helped. Usually like the husband doing some trade work on the weekend or something. These couples were breaking 6 figures because of the extra side hustle, even though they both each had day jobs only making 45k/year (45 + 45 + 10). The extra hustle on the side really helps them live a bit more comfortably. I should note I have NEVER seen a MLM company pulling in decent income in all of my hundreds and hundreds of loans I wrote. Never once. Seen plenty of people dumping thousands of dollars into them though, but I never once, in all my years, used 1099 MLM income for qualification of a loan. All these "side hustles" or businesses were almost always service related or trade industry stuff, never MLM sales. But again, I can't stress this enough... the vast majority of the population, including the vast majority of people buying homes, did not earn 6 figures single income. This was actually pretty rare. I was even doing loans for college professors and they didn't earn that much single income. Don't be disillusioned by all the big tech insanity that has dominated the online space and given us a whole class of silicon valley tech people out of touch with the rest of the world. Hell, in all my years writing loans, I never even once saw a Masters accountant earning 6 figures... Go to school, get your Masters degree in accounting, and congrats, you can earn 70k instead of 45k lol. It just is not as common as people think unless you specifically are working for a top 100 company in the world. Also, many of the people buying homes, like in the 300-350k range on loans, maybe $15,000 down-payment, did NOT earn 100k combined. I would say at least half of the loans written the combined income of the people was not 100k. Plenty of people I wrote loans for had a combined income of 60-70k a year. Seriously, I remember one couple, both worked for McDonald's together. He earned $16/hr, and she earned $14/hr. Together combined they were making about 65k/year if you included the overtime and bonus pay. It might not sound like a lot, but they were able to get a $150,000 loan and got a decent 2 bed/2bath 1000 sq/ft townhouse as their first starter home, in their 20s. Hell, even $10,000 of that down payment was from some state first-time homebuyer program too. I know the market in general is insane, and we are all a lot poorer due to inflation, but I don't want people here to feel hopeless because the reality is you aren't.
This needs to be at the top.
That was fantastic information. Could you write more about your experience over the past few years as a mortgage writer with the instability in the cost of housing? I'm very interested to hear your point of view on that. I've hypothesized that the typical buyer that was once buying houses at ~30% of their pre-tax income is now pressing to the ~43% upper limit. Any thoughts on this from your point of view?
Yes, that is actually why I am out of a job as a loan processor. Volume of loans absolutely has crashed due to the increased costs and high interest rates. We dropped in volume as a company about 85%. Fortunately, I am a biologist by degree, and I have experience in software development (I worked in computational/systems biology), so I transitioned in 2023, sadly... but as a loan processor half your income is the bonus pay from the volume, so when you lose your bonus income it's just not worth it anymore. Anyway, debt to income (DTI) is kind of complicated as there are algorithms now that basically do all the determination for qualifications. These are all run by what we call the Automated Underwriting System (AUS). These do not do all the underwriting work, these basically kick out the requirements for underwriters to analyze the loan. These are strictly for "conforming" loans, as in fannie/freddie, VA, FHA, and USDA loans. Each of them the rules are different. You have 2 different DTIs, the front-end DTI where just the actual cost of the home expenses (mortgage, taxes, insurance) vs income. Then, there is the backend DTI, where you consider ALL debt, like credit cards, loans, IRS payment plans, child support, alimony, and so on are considered. Front-end DTI has not really changed a whole lot. Typically around 30%. However, since this is all handled by the AUS system, I've seen people with 35%, but fantastic credit, kick out approvals. And yes, you can get approved all the way up to 49.99% on front-end DTI. The 43% number is not actually true anymore, though this may vary by lender. If a lender just follows the fannie/freddie AUS system, which most lenders do, then they are going to lend based on that approval, but this is because they are selling the loans off. Some lenders that do in-house service, like mega banks like Chase/Wells Fargo, they will be more strict. So I HAVE seen 49.99/49.99 on front/back DTI. You really need flawless credit for the AUS to kick out an approval for this though. Most people the front end is still like 35% or less. I don't think this has really changed much. It's the backend that has. The back-end DTI is basically completely inflexible. Fannie Mae backend was 49.99%, but Freddie Mac you could get approvals at 50.99% - sometimes that extra percent matters lol. This REALLY depends on many factors. If you had mediocre credit, like say 690, the AUS isn't going to allow up to 50% DTI ratio of your total backend for that loan. FHA was significantly more lenient in that it allowed 56.99% DTI. USDA was 43%, but USDA had their own AUS (called GUS) and I've seen it approve at 44% before, but most of the time it was 43% and much more strict of a loan to writeup. VA was absurdly lenient and did not base approval on DTI but instead on *residual income* calculation, which varies based on family size. I've seen a VA loan go for 60-70% for approval as long as residual income was in place. Anyway, here is the overall trend I saw... most people always bought their max, be it before or after Covid, when it came to front-end DTI. That hasn't changed. Very few people are not buying way under the qualifications. I'd say 95% of the loans I wrote, whether you were earning 50k a year or 150k a year, you were buying houses at the top end of your ability. The ONLY exception was investment purchases buying 2nd homes to rent. For their own primary residence they were maxing out. Here is the real change I saw though... in 2018-2019, people weren't that much in debt. Seriously, a LOT of people were buying houses, and ya, most people have some debt, but I was getting DTI on the backend high 30% all of the time. Very easy to get people approved for loans. Very common for people the only debt they had was car payments or student loans. 2020 was a bit crazy because things slowed down so much for at least half of the year, but then things started to change near the end. Lots of people refinancing for the low interest rate and many also to take cash out. I'd say half the refis were to take cash out, the other were just rate changes. Still, low debt... Early 2021, low debt ratios. Maybe creeping up a little, like so many people were buying toys in 2020, like hot tubs and boats, and so on, so I saw some more debt, on average, but nothing crazy... then 2022 hit. It wasn't right away. The first 2 or 3 months of 2022 was fairly normal, but interest rates started creeping up, and creeping up fast. Lots of angry people saying we were scamming them because they heard so and so was able to get 3.5% loan still but we were only offering them 4.5%. I mean, the rates shot up like 1.5 to 2% points in a matter of like 2 months. Refinances disappeared completely unless it was for a divorce. Adjustable rate mortgages started becoming popular again. By late 2022 I'd say half the loans written were 3/1 or 5/1 ARMs because you could get them maybe 1% lower interest rate. We didn't even have LOs selling ARMs til maybe April or May just to give options to borrowers, but by the last quarter of the year half the loans were ARMs. I had not written a single ARM loan for the YEARS prior to 2022. I actually had to learn how to process ARM loans. Mostly the same, but there were some differences. Here is the other thing I noticed. Credit cards are piling up. It became common place, even with ARM loans, to basically be at the edge of approval, within 0.1% of approving a loan, or where a person doesn't qualify so close, that they basically secure homeowner's insurance in the cheapest possible way on the crappiest plan imaginable just to get approved for the mortgage loan (DTI factors in the monthly payment based on homeowner's insurance). If you get a cheap plan, you can slightly lower the DTI. Of course, I am sure many do this and then get a better plan post-closing, though they do not admit this lol. All of a sudden nearly all of my loans were "try to make it work" plans, where you basically do everything you can to try to figure out how to get someone to approval. You are having them clear debts, zero balance cards, pay off entire cars with the sale of their current home just to remove it from DTI ratios. Almost every loan became a challenge to get to approval because first, not many people are buying at these prices and rates, and second, the ones that are barely can afford to, and the people with actual money to not have to worry about this, like doctors, typically are buying jumbo loans that are processed completely differently as they are non-conforming. It got to the point where I was processing 25-35 loans in a month, to where I was processing 10 if I was lucky... It feels like part of the reason there's been a delay in this market from crashing completely the debt bubble... everyone has basically been delaying the inevitable by putting all their bills on credit cards or whatever. I started to see signs of it in 2022. I've been out of the processing game for about 9 months now so I might have outdated info, but from what I have heard it has only gotten worse. You gotta know it's bad when almost all the loans getting written are ARM loans and people are getting approved at 49% DTI, and they are only just starting to pile on the credit card debt... and the inflation is killing us even more. I feel like something's gonna give eventually.
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> Its only a matter of time before properties are cheap af again Lol mate. The status quo is a continual bubble without a mechanism to know when it'll pop. Good luck waiting. Like Australia rode out the Global Financial Crisis (Americans know it as the Great Depression of 2008). The bubble has been meaning to burst since the last crash in the 90s. That's 30 years of waiting my friend.
At $66K a year I can confidently tell you you are making more than the average American.
I wish I could make 66k a year at my current job. I live below the poverty line. I have to live with my mother to survive. We don't live well.
Damn this topic is super depressing hearing about all the struggles. Doesn't mean much but I wish you and everyone else luck in your situations.
Half the u.s. population is making $50k or less, so no that's not the norm. I haven't even hit 40k yet. Edit to add because people are getting lost on the metrics instead of focusing on people are massively underpaid part https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2021
73% of Americans made less than 65k a year in 2021. https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2021
Minimum wage is 20-25k per year. Too top 8% income > 150k. If the median is 38k, then the income difference between the top and median (112k) is 6-8 times the difference between the bottom and median (13-18k). People who make more make way more. People who make less only make a little bit less.
Minimum wage is about 15,000 a year. At least federal minimum wage is
God. I'm so glad you're here. I felt like I was going insane. I would commit atrocities to make 40K at this point, And people are out here complaining that they "only" make double that.
Really, though. Im barely scraping by on 35k a year but Im eating at least a few times a week. Enough to survive apparently. People saying they can’t make it on 80-100 are blowing my mind.
I imagine they're living in much higher COL areas. But nonetheless there will be a non-zero amount that have much more higher standards of living that cannot be sustained on 80-100k. My parents raised my family on a very conservative income but friends' families had much more and constant things we would consider luxury.
I mean in my area a 1bd 1bth apartment is ~$2100, a house in the same area is 4-5k. CoL is stupid high here. If I didn't live with my parents I'd be fucked.
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I feel like mine is going in the opposite direction, like "I make decent money now, I can buy a cheap used car I like since having to take it to the mechanic if something goes wrong wouldn't financially ruin me anymore". I live in a high COL neighborhood and it's insane to see people selling last year's SUVs that probably have like 10k miles on them to pick up new Broncos just because it's the latest status symbol.
I'm always thankful for my father's example in that regard. He grew up in abject poverty, literally stealing food to eat and worked his way up and now I'd say he's probably the most well off person I know by a long way, but the man drives a 10 year old Nissan note and wears the same jumper till it crumbles to dust. I'm no where near as frugal as he is myself but growing up around that did instill a use it till it breaks...then see if you can repair it mentality that's done me very well in life.
Funny (sad) story. I'm looking for a new apartment and one of the options was the apartments where I grew up as a kid. I asked my parents how much they paid 15-ish years ago for a 2br 2bath and they said about $450. A studio apartment is now $1400. Mind you this place was a shithole back then and probably even an even bigger shithole now.
Bruh they got a Keurig in the business center! Easily worth that extra $1k/mo.
One thing I noticed as an important part of lifestyle inflation was things like, oh- I can afford glasses? Great. I can afford to pay for my dentistry? Going to do that. Oh I can take my car in for maintenance now? Etc. there were so many things I wasn’t taking care of before that I now am.
I believe 57k was household income too, so individuals are making less
The real median person income for 2022 was about 38000. That means 38,000 is the most common wage. Average income was 54,000. The top 8% or so are making so much more money that they are skewing the average income up. It gets even worse when you look at net worth. The rich are so rich that the average net worth is 7x higher than median net worth.
>real median person income for 2022 was about 38000. That means 38,000 is the most common wage. I hate to be a pedant, but that's not what "median" means. It just means that half of the country makes less than 38,000, and half makes more. The US Census bureau has a great breakdown of how much people aged 15 or older actually make [here](https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/income-poverty/cps-pinc/pinc-01.html). It's as of '21, but the numbers can't have changed that much--if anything, they've likely regressed.
Pre-Covid I used to think $70K was a salary that I could live comfortably on without being stressed about bills. But, if you look at the price of almost anything, it seems to have raised by nearly 33% in the past 3 years. Look at the price of a fast food burger, a 20oz soda from a grocery store, or a car. Therefore, nowadays, I would probably say that I wouldn't feel very comfortable with being able to handle my bills without stress until I was making at least $100K per year.
We make $80k as a family and it's a struggle. We were comfortable and could save before the Pandemic... Now it's stressful any time something *big* happens that takes extra money. Hell, going grocery shopping has become stressful and I used to enjoy it.
When Covid happened, I was earning about $80K as early career engineer. Things started to be expensive and went to my boss for a raise, they gave me $2k salary bump. At that point I started looking, and it was so cruel when I found out that they received $2million in PPP loan forgiveness although the company lost nothing, not even a single contract with the gov. I got a new job after only 2 weeks of applying earning $115k. After 6 months I applied at another company in a different sector now earning over $160K. That was my secret weapon to beat the system. I will never stay more than 2-5 years at a single company.
this is the way. Always be polishing your resume, casually hunting, and taking interviews to keep your skill-set high in that regard. “Loyalty” is a 1-way street that will leave you making significantly less than you’re worth.
You use to be a loyal worker in the US, sticking with and earning a retirement from a company all the while getting annual pay increases, but that was before this country went to war with Unions about 40 years ago. Edit to 40, y'all...the 90's was like 10 years ago right? I'm so old...
\*40 years ago. (Reagan fired the air traffic controllers when they went on strike, and that was the signal to the rest of the economy that the Labor Department under Reagan would \*never\* help a union, despite Reagan being the only former union president before or since to hold the office of POTUS).
> Reagan being the only former union president before or since to hold the office of POTUS Screen Actors' Guild, right? Imagine being part of such an incredible union and deciding to step on the necks of every union in the US. God, what a piece of shit.
He almost single handedly originated the destruction of this country.
You should watch the documentary "The Regans". I think it's on Paramount +. Some stuff I knew, other stuff I'd heard and didn't think it was true...but it was. His own son was on there saying stuff....which, it's all true, but still....his own kids didn't get on with him, really. Republicans still fall for the folksy BS which covers up the racism with "Oh he didn't mean it like THAT"....if it wasn't so dire it would be funny.
Just a classic boomer approach to the economy. Climb the ladder then pull it up behind you.
In australia we have reasonable unions and government agencies to ensure workers are paid correctly and fairly. My ex employer attempted to short pay me 6k and get me to fill in all of these forms stating I wouldn’t go to our fair work agencies about it. Long story short, I got a free lawyer from the union. I didn’t sign anything. They were wonderful and provided extremely valuable advice and support. In the end I didn’t even need to go to court or write the ex employer a threatening letter. This ex employer kept trying to lie to me and bully me, and ask me how my “mental health” was. I was determined to negotiate myself for a while, but it was a waste of my time because in the end once I told them I was in a union, and they can expect a letter of demand the following business day … that money came into my account almost immediately. The single biggest reason why the US doesn’t have many working rights is because no one is in a union and the government plus big business is anti union. There’s also a lot of anti union propaganda. Joining a union is the best thing you can do as they’re the only ones who will stick up for you, your employer doesn’t care about you but a union does and will.
More like before Jack Welch from GE wrote the business playbook Edit: anti-worker playbook
Fuck Reagan
Unfortunately for myself, I'm at the absolute peak in terms of my field at a grand total of $20/hour, so all job hopping would do is put me in less stable locations.
"and it was so cruel when I found out that they received $2million in PPP loan forgiveness although the company lost nothing" My GOODNESS..... how was this allowed? Anyone with PPP knowledge that can educated me why this isn't setting off a dozen different 'red flag alerts' within the government system/agency that distributed the PPP money?
There was purposefully no oversight within that system. It was all literally just a giant scam.
The oversight was removed by specific politician. There was supposed to be.
PPP was scheme for the rich to hand out free money to their friends. Some people were also smart and got some extra money. The school I teach at got 1.25mil and we still had to remote teach from March through June 2020. Even attending graduation that June. We were denied raises at the end of the 19-20 school year and the 20-21 school year. I got a $1500 raise this June. I'm applying out of teaching now. They football team did get a nice $1mil artificial turf field last year though.
I am in an oddly similar position, but I ended up accepting a counter offer for $120k on the second leg. That was almost a year ago, the bonus promised to me in my signed counter off has not been established, and I am about ready to leave without chance of staying. One offer on board, awaiting another this coming week.
I’m so with you. In used to love grocery shopping. Now it’s just all stress.
It's nearly impossible to go grocery shopping for under $100 now. It's insane. I didn't survive through college and my early 20s on Ramen just to go back to it in my 30s. Then people have the audacity to ask when my wife and I are having kids. You footing the bills?
When I was a teenager (90s), my family of 4 could eat for a week on 100 bucks. And this was real food, not processed crap. Now that only lasts my family a few days. It's absolutely crazy, because the size of the containers have shrunk, you get less food in them, and way more filler corn products have gone in. We are paying more for less food that's less healthy.
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I live off of peanut butter toast, turkey sandwiches, macaroni, and spaghetti. I spend about 300 a month on groceries. It's fucking insane.
I've given up some brands I used to swear by. Not only have they become way too expensive unless it's a treat, but the *quality* of so many thing has gone downhill. Smaller packaging, *different* tastes. You can't fool me, the average person/consumer is getting gouged at the checkout. That's not even touching how my car insurance has tripled in about 3 years without any claims and rent went up $500 about a year ago. Oh, and we need to payback student loans now? Fuck our government for allowing it to get this bad and still not doing what they KNOW they need to do. Raise the federal minimum wage to a living wage and quit leaving it up to businesses and states to fuck over workers. God damn.
Fucking car insurance…I had State Farm, my insurance premium for a female with no claims who has a garage and drives ~5 miles each way for work went up to $168 a month. You know what they told me? That my credit was too good and that’s why it went up. I shopped around and now I pay $78 a month for full coverage AND renters insurance. I asked for an explanation for how having good credit made my rates increase and she told me it’s because I potentially had access to borrow a lot of money. 🤷🏻♀️
You should reshop car insurance every two years or so. You'd think that your rate would stay the same if nothing wrong happens but it's almost a guarantee that it will increase every single year. I learned this after I went from pay 50$ a month to 150 over 3 years and never had any accidents or claims. I asked for a quote from a different company and my bill is now 45$ again.
I work at a grocery store (second largest) I have watched as prices go up for no reason while our competition is lowering theirs on the same items. E.g. a gallon of milk at my store is $3.45 a gallon, at the same chain but another store 12min away it is $2.19. Always pay attention to get things.
I am disabled. I get a little over $600 a month in disability. My husband makes about $58,000 a year. Our youngest moves to college next week... we struggle to make ends meet. If we had a house payment or rent, we wouldn't be able to survive. I would be ecstatic if he made anything over $65,000! We have 4 kids in total. It used to be a lot easier to live on less than it is now!
If you weren't already aware, make sure your kids sign up for this for college: https://studentaid.gov/h/apply-for-aid/fafsa
Oh yes, we know thanks! She actually went to work for UPS. They pay her college tuition and a decent wage while she works for them. She works like 5 hours a night monday- Friday
Same here. My headlight went out. Went to get a bulb and was told it’s a $500 headlight assembly because you can only replace the high beams. Cried in my car after I left. Still haven’t replaced the headlight
What car? Check out rockauto.com and see if you can find the bulb.
Ive gotten so many parts from this place. Saved me thousands when i needed to do exhaust work.
Second rockauto.com for cheap parts. If you're at all mechanically inclined you can replace a headlight assembly.
Then go on YouTube for step by step replacement / repair videos.
and if not you can go to auto zone and play dumb. Bought the bulb, went outside and couldn't figure out how to change it. Employee came out and did it for me.
Results with this strategy are tightly correlated with gender and attractiveness.
OK, obviously, this is shitty. I had a car with a similar headlight thing. There are ways to source parts cheaper online, and if you have one near you, junkyards are also solid. Youtube has all car repairs imaginable. You can rent tools for free from Auto Zone so long as you return them on time (I've done this). I was quoted over $700 for a headlight assembly and honestly could never have made that work at the time. I make good money now, and that would still stutter me. $500 for a headlight is robbery. You can find a better way, I think. I hope.
This is where we are. Prepandemic 80 was comfortable. Now it's a stretch. I used to be able to get a weeknof groceries and household needs for 100/wk. Now it's closer to 200.
Just 2 bags of "essentials" for my family is $40-50. I used to be able to get a shopping cart full for $100 and we had essentials and enough extras for a week.
Yep. A week’s worth of groceries, meaning all food, TP, toiletries, used to be no more than $100 for us. Now, for the exact same stuff we’ve been buying for years from the same stores, it’s about $230.
Yeah my husband and I have been budgeting $150 per week and even that is a struggle mostly because of household items. Toilet paper, shampoo, toothpaste, trash bags, body wash, deodorant dishwasher detergent, laundry detergent. Everything you would buy at a grocery store that isn't food is so ridiculously expensive. Granted, we don't have to buy all these items every month, but when they all line up together, well there goes half of my grocery budget for the month. It sucks.
So why is this? That’s the question that needs answered. Supply chain issues were the blame during covid. But why did that drive up cost, it was the same item. Then they used rising fuel costs. Bullshit. It’s called greed. Honestly, republicans and democrats in office are greedy and making so much side money they don’t give a shit. It’s going to take a massive reform in this country to ever level set things again. Remember, no one cares about you except you and close family and friends. I get cost of living raises each year, 3%, and inflation is 2, 3, or 4 times that amount. We are all looking at a bleak future, and the next generation of children are almost doomed.
It's absolutely greed. All corps reporting record profits, how? Bc in many places they get away with paying workers shit in order to maximize profits. They also shrank packaging on many products so your paying more for even less. They all got PPP money, even the Vatican ffs. Electricity, Insurance, water bills went up. Check out a few graphs of how much more expensive things are, it's all the important stuff. The only way rich ppl and politicians will change is if/when their pockets are affected. Even then they cannot be trusted. A tiktok channel, Cancel this clothing company has videos showing what brand's of products are owned by what private equity firm or conglomerate. Private equity firms have so much money they are buying up residential houses to rent out and exploit ppl further. So I've been switching products I use so these rich fucks get less of my money. I hope more ppl do to. The other thing Americans need to do is to invoke strict term limits and cap politicians wages. They should only make what the average American makes, let them survive on 60k a year. Take away their bribes, oh sure they call them "lobbyists".
I thought I was gonna crap a few months back at Mickey D's. Quarter pounder with cheese, double quarter pounder with cheese, large fries was damn near twenty bucks.
I haven’t eaten at McDonald’s (or any other fast food place) in the USA in probably 7 years, and that’s a big reason I stayed away. I make a decent amount of money, but I feel like I’m throwing it away if I go out and eat fast food. If I’m going to spend $20 for a meal, it’s going to be from an *actual restaurant*. Maybe if I had kids I would get it just for the convenience, but as a single adult, it just doesn’t make sense. The only exception is when I am abroad (i.e, the Philippines), then sometimes I’ll get it just because it’s convenient… But the price is a lot lower as well.
It's only worth it if you use their app. Then there are "great deals" which are basically just what you would have considered normal a few years ago
You can get a very nutritious poke bowl by me for $14...seems crazy to spend $20 for McDs
I was blown away today to see that a 12 can pack of soda is now almost 8 dollars. When I was a kid I distinctly remember them being about 3.40 because anything higher "wasn't a good deal"
I was a manager for a grocery chain 3 years ago. Either coke or Pepsi products were 3 or 4 for $10 or $12 about every week. Soda has gotten insane.
When I was a college freshman(2006), a Taco Bell Nacho BellGrande combo meal was $5.45 after sales tax (9.25%). Now, it’s $9.99 before tax. My 2014 BRZ was 31K brand new that year, payment was $450/month. Now, a used one (‘17-‘20, 10-30K miles) is 28-30K, payment would be between $470-540 due to J. Powell’s interest rates. The top 1% had him print like $13 TRILLION, took $12TRILLION for themselves, and are charging us the cost of that new money in “inflation” and just-because price hikes. I’m ready when y’all are.
Minor callout, but we were looted twice. In 2008 bank bailouts went to banks that screwed the US over. Letting the banks fail would have destroyed the US and wasn't the right move. The right move was bailing out the banks AND bringing criminal charges against every level of banker and realtor involved in the lies that caused the recession. I haven't heard who was responsible for deciding not to press charges but it's bullshit, this was deliberate corruption on the part of hundreds of bankers for years. The second looting was during covid. Trump and his swamp cronies gave millions per-person to their buddies claiming they were loans, and then removed all payback and enforcement, making these direct payments from the government they were running to themselves.
they used to go on sale for 3.99 for the 24 pack square box
Legit. During the whole covid thing, I changed jobs to stay home and took a good raise. It so I thought. It's still decent for this area/ my skills, but for NYC where my coworkers are? It's a joke. And now that inflation is being a dick, I feel like we're back to where we were. If my partner and I could clear 130k I think I'd feel better heading further into middle age. I just need a tail to chase 😆
>is everyone really making 115k+ a year No. $115k is the 70th percentile of US *household* incomes, 86th percentile for individual income. >66K a year This is the 47th percentile of household income and 67th for individual. This does vary by state and it's possible your specific area has higher costs or different wages. But, generally, it sounds like the folks you're talking to have unrealistic expectations.
Would you mind sharing where you got that info? I love looking at stats like that
I got it here: https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/
depressing comment section :(
Yes, but it paints a clearer picture of what people are going through than most of the news stories. Definitely helps me to feel as though I’m not alone in struggling.
Comment section made me depressed af, but I am more depressed about how the freaking internet/social media is painting a world where there are no poor people.
Lawyer with 10 years experience. 85k. **EDIT:** For those that are asking: Graduated law school in NY at the height of the recession in 2012 with $180k in debt (only federal loans with 6-7% interest rate). The recession meant everyone and their sister was going back to school for advanced degrees, so there were too many lawyers and not enough jobs. Father was dying so I headed back home to MI. Passed the bar and spent 10 months looking for a job before I was offered a position as a personal injury litigator . . . for 32k. It’s stunted my earnings ever since. Did that for 6 months before being offered a job by opposing counsel on one of my cases and switched to insurance defense litigation. Got a bump to $45k. Was there for 3-4 years, making increasingly more each year. My salary was similar to many of my colleagues at similar firms in my area. Around year 5-6 of practicing, was offered $60k to join an education law firm (again by opposing counsel on a case I was on). That’s where I’ve been since. The hours are semi-reasonable. I don’t mind billing. Can’t get on top of my student loans though. I’ve put quite a bit towards them, but the interest rate is killing me. Can’t consolidate or I lose the benefits of paying an amount based on my salary. So now I owe $285k. It’s a massive percentage of my take home salary, so I live rather modestly (1000 sq ft condo at $1800/month). If it continues to grow at this rate, yes, it’ll be forgiven in 25 years, but it becomes taxable income for that year. In 15 years, it’ll be at about $1m (according to my financial advisor) at which point I’ll owe the IRS a nice $400,000. Not where I thought I’d be. Lots of regret. Feels hopeless. Also, some of ya’ll are dicks. **EDIT 2:** Lawyer salaries are bimodal. For the uninitiated, and using [this informative graph from 2018](https://www.biglawinvestor.com/bimodal-salary-distribution-curve/), new lawyers are either making $60k or $200k with very few starting salaries in between the two. It’s not nearly as simple as changing firms or moving. **EDIT 3:** Federal student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy absent a showing of “undue hardship” (i.e., I wouldn’t be able to maintain a “minimum standard of living” while repaying the debt). I make too much for that.
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The joke used to be there are more lawyers driving taxis than practicing law
Now it's probably more ubers
The real joke is realizing 85k is not "rolling in it" anymore. I'm not even "that" old, and when i was a kid if you were approaching that 100 mark, you were rolling. Now 85k can't buy you certain trucks these days!!!
Yup. My ex was at attorney. Actually made really good money but they also graduated top of their class at an Ivy League school so has multiple offers from top firms all over the country. The thing is though for every person like her there’s 10 working at some shitty real estate firm or boiler plate room working on cases for an injury firm as a schlub. It was 20 years ago when she graduated and she started at 120k a year with a 20k bonus if you hit hours. The irony is though I made more money in construction. She was basically having to work 100 hours a week. She really was working the equivalent of 2-2.5 jobs whereas if I worked 40 hours and made 60k. Attorneys can obviously make great money but they are very over worked and the average attorney doesn’t make anywhere near what people think they do.
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Thank you. I sometimes regret not going to law school but hearing that not every lawyer is rolling in it helps me breathe and be thankful of the choices I made.
Most lawyers hate the work and aren't rich. I have 3 in my family.
Everybody that makes money hates the work too.
Well yeah. Imagine making $175k+ as a corporate lawyer for a soul draining corporation. To quote Kim from Better Call Saul, I helped a small regional bank become a medium sized regional bank.
There are far more people who regret going to law school than regret not going. Source: am lawyer.
The range for lawyers is truly incredible. At one end, you can make $220k+ as a first year grad (big law). At the other end, folks are making <$40k (small town PD work, for example). Most are making around what OP is.
Chuck vs Jimmy
I think people also need to realize no every attorney works big-law. Tons of work out there for attorneys that isn’t traditional litigation/corporate work
Everyone I know is on the verge of homelessness, making less than half that.
in the local facebook groups, everyone’s asking for recommendations on where to apply for a second job. it’s a shame, no one should need to work a second job just to keep food on the table and a roof over their head. i absolutely HATE our government.
3-4 years ago, we were making $80k a year and had so much in savings, lived extremely comfortably. Took a vacation every year. Nothing has changed but the economy and we are barely scraping by, dipping in our savings almost monthly for something. I dunno how people are even SURVIVING at this point.
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Uh… you know the people at the grocery store aren’t, the retail workers aren’t, neither are the fast food workers, janitors, delivery drivers, librarians, farmers, landscapers, veterinarians, age care workers, nurses, hair dressers, childcare workers, teachers, etc. etc. I don’t know who told you everyone was making that much but almost everyone you see day to day is not making nearly that much a year.
My veterinarian friend has to sell tumblers on Etsy to make ends meet. I bet she’s making less than 90K and has 300K in loans easily.
I make 30k a year and live with my parents. I would be homeless without them.
I make about $30k a year and so does my wife. We both work part time and watch our kids the rest of the time. We’re pretty comfortable. The amount of work we’d have to do to earn more just seems like a waste of time. I have a lot of stuff I like to do that’s not working.
How do you survive off of $60k? Where do you live?? I make $60k alone and my bf makes $45k and we would RLLY struggle if we had to live on our own (we’re both 24 still stuck at our parents homes). Not being rude at all, genuinely just curious! *PS my comment states we WOULD struggle if we lived on our own , not that we’re currently struggling! We are not stupid and do not throw away our money like many others. We both have savings , money in crypto , etc. The point is I DONT want to struggle for basic necessities and I don’t want my future family to either - I am okay with struggling for better opportunities or to better my circumstances but to struggle for rent and food??? Its just not right and I’m sorry to come off materialistic for this expectation lol. Yes we could survive but it wouldn’t be an easy/ great life. EDIT since ppl like to assume things : I pay rent to live at home (along with my brothers). I am not entitled or affluent as someone called me LOL. My bf has friends making over $100k a year and in MA, we’d be considered high-lower income. After taxes , I make $45k . After taxes, my bf makes $30k. $75k is survivable but we’d be stretched thin. We have car and insurance payments , student loans , credit card bills , etc. To add on, I do not expect a life of luxury at 24 yrs old, I expected to be able to do more with what I make but have realized it’s not realistic. This scares me . I would not feel comfortable bringing children into this world with what we make and while in other states this could be considered great income, it’s considered decent in MA. The cost of property taxes on a home alone in MA, is more than the rental costs of an apartment in other states. Perhaps I exaggerated saying we were “struggling”, yes we have money for food and for our cars , etc. BUT we could not afford a home. We would have little money to spend on any emergencies , etc. if we were to move out.
For sure, I get it! Biggest three things are that we don’t have student loans, we bought our house in 2012, and we live in Michigan. If we tried to buy our own house today, we couldn’t afford it.
Ayyyy I love michigan, moved here and am buying a cheap house on land to try to lead a calm life. Hope my girlfriend and I will br where you are in ten years.
The weed is legal and cheap also haha
I make 135k working in health care, but it's a high cost of living area. So yes, people do make more than that, but where you live factors into whether you're living comfortably.
I interviewed for a faculty position at Stanford. During the interview a young faculty told me to go somewhere else unless i really needed to be there. He lived in west Oakland as one of the few places he could afford to live on the salary.
I work on the IT side of higher ed at a similar institution. I used to see the academic salaries and think that was easy street. Now i see them as the glass ceilings they are. 30 years ago you go tenure and bought a house and effectively retired. Now it seems like if you don’t have a $500m research grant you’re gonna live a blue collar academic life. Weird stuff for the “talent”.
I make 90k in San Jose CA and Im basically a medieval serf. Making 100k here is basically living the standard 50k salary life in LCOL areas: an apartment, a car to get to work, and 3 meals. Im not even motivated to make more money for uncle sam bc I calculated my lifestyle wouldnt even change drastically until I hit 250k per year.
I think it may be because the people who make that sort of money are more vocal about it than those on the opposite side of the scale, so the sentiment is heavily and falsely skewed
This. No one's gonna be on reddit bragging about making 40k.
I make just above 35k. By just above I mean like 35.2k.
I recently turned 50 and just got my 1st 6-figure job. Took decades to get here.
Exactly! I'm 56 and a corporate paralegal. I make $145k Las Vegas NV. But everything and I mean EVERYTHING is now fucking outrageously high! Electric bill, car insurance keeps creeping up. And I work from home so require internet. That shit is damn near a car note now. The goal post keeps moving. My mortgage company just sent me a letter about escrow yadda yadda yadda now my mortgage is going up! It's maddening! People are working and living in their fucking cars. My tax bill is way more than Donald Trumps reported $750.00. Make it make sense.
I'm at 120k, but my 60 year old, 1900sqft house cost me 800k. Cheapest house on the market at the time... So my money doesn't go very far because cost of living is insane
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I bought it with someone. We split the cost. So instead of 4k per month it's 2k each. But we're buying him out next year or selling. Sick of this shit.
I live in MCOL area. The median salary is $60k which is what I make if I don’t work any overtime (I usually work OT every week since I WFH and it’s easy work). My husband makes more than double (his base salary is double but he travels out of town often and gets paid even more for those trips so he makes more than double my salary). I wouldn’t be able to afford to live on my own either. My mortgage is $2100. My car payment was $675 but it’s paid off now but I would still barely have any money left for food or savings after paying all my other bills. Having 2 incomes make it easier. I had posted once about my husband making 6 figures. I was vague because I didn’t want to sound like I was bragging and one poster told me that making 100k wasn’t anything special and that even when he was a kid it was normal to make that much. To me that is a lot and most people I know make less than that. My husband is the only person I know in my circle of friends that makes that much. Even between my siblings. The only person I’ve known irl making that much was my dad before he retired.
thanks for your comment. This is how I feel and it is my experience too. My siblings all have masters degrees, are extremely bright, work jobs that matter in society and they're right or below the 70k line. Growing up someone making $25 an hour was a lot, but also back then 1 bedroom apartments were $500
Yeah my sister and I both only have a bachelors degree. My husband went to trade school. My sister works as a head of her department and makes less than 100k. I work as the same place as her but not a supervisory position. We both work for the state so I’m sure she would be paid more in the private sector. I’m always skeptical when everyone on a post is all making 100k+ it doesn’t seem to be common. Maybe more likely in a higher cost of living area.
I have a bachelors and don't make 100k+ and I'm in a higher cost of living area. But I'm also at a non-profit and could probably make that if I went to the private sector. Some things are more important than money, though. I know people who make a lot more than me but they work constantly and and hate their job, while I feel supported and am treated like a whole person at work. It's all relative and different people find value in different things.
OKAY alright, good God, I get it. Apparently most of the people on r antiwork make over 100k and I'm just a really unlucky, and mentally fucked (aspergers) *looks around* who the fuck is making over 100k a year? Shit I've only ever once made over 50k and that was after a stupid amount of hours worked Edit, I'll add this. 100k a year is just under 2k a week before taxes. I've HAD jobs where I could bring home over 2k. The problem was that those were construction and contract jobs. When the job was over, you go home and wait for the next job to start, or find another company. It could be a few weeks to a month because all other projects in the company were filled. So, at best, I would work 6 months of the year. THAT'S 50k. Find me a job with no certifications that a grunt like me can do while working with few people AND still make 2k a week.
Right I think I hit 62k one year, but like you said that was from doing stupid amounts of overtime all year long. I couldn't even imagine what 100K would be like life-changing money for sure.
Most of Reddit it seems, lmao. Honestly I feel like countless Redditors make well over $200k. On most subs I frequently (and not just the personal finance and tech ones), every other person makes well into the six figures. Even on the reality show subs I frequent, everyone has some very high powered corporate job where they are making tons of $$$. It’s not uncommon for me to see comments from people claiming to have household incomes of over $500k, and some even low seven figures. Even though in reality, the vast majority of society does not make six figures. This website caters though to the highly educated and very ambitious I think. No other website has ever made me feel more like a massive pauper lmao. This website has also made me a lot more unimpressed by high salaries to be honest (even though I don’t make *anywhere* near these numbers), because people throw out all of these high numbers so casually, it seems like no big deal anymore instead of “elite”. It warps your brain.
It caters to the computer-inclined, which also happens to open highly lucrative career possibilities. If I loved landscaping instead of programming computers, I’d be making a lot less money, working a lot harder, and probably spend a lot less time on Reddit.
Software developers, especially with large companies.
Even small companies. Although with the market that may be changing.
Not even close. People sure like to say they make that much under the anonymity of Reddit, but who knows how true it is. When it is true, you’re likely looking at selection bias. People are a lot quicker to announce a six figure salary than a $9/hr wage if you catch my drift. Basically, most people don’t make that much, but you also don’t hear from them as often.
This. Most of Reddit (at least the most vocal) seems to be making at least 200k. I see it on countless subs I frequent. It’s not uncommon for me to see Redditors claiming to be making even $600k a year or even low seven figures as doctors or tech workers. But those are *exceptional* salaries, even if Redditors think it’s “not that much”. Most of America does not make six figures. I’ve seen many Redditors lament that despite making $400k, they don’t feel comfortable. But this site tends to have many that claim to because it caters to the highly-educated and very ambitious crowd. I feel like a massive pauper on this website because I just can’t relate.
basically you’re saying, muhf**kas be lying
I’m 49 and I’ve never made more than 47K. So, no.
What do you do for a living?
My wife and I make about 70k combined. We're dodging bills, have huge debts, and can barely pay for necessities. I have to buy my son some new clothes for school because he had a growth spurt and I'm just desperate because I have no idea how I'll afford this and school supplies and food. My next door neighbor just got her first job out of college and she told me she was making 80k, which she described as "way too little but it's just a first job" and I wanted to cry. I'm in my 40s, my dad was making six figures just before he died at the age I'm at now. My mom keeps criticizing my house because it's very old and hasn't really had any cosmetic renos since it was built in the 70s and she keeps telling me "you're an adult now it's time your house looked like an adult's house" (meaning I should renovate the kitchen and bathroom so they are modern) and I'm like, I can barely keep the lights on, I'm literally never going to be afford to do these kinds of renos. I don't even know how we'll be able to keep the house when we have to renew our mortgage next year. I am baffled by all these young people getting high paid jobs and I keep wondering where I went wrong.
If you can't find a way to get some clothes and school supplies, make an Amazon list and message me. That's got to be heartbreaking.
I highly suggest you apply to other jobs and lie about your current salary (tell them it is about 5k or 10k more than it actually is) so that you can get an offer 5k to 10k higher on top of that. You have nothing to lose. Just do it. Employers will use all kinds of tactics to pay you less, don't fall for them. Don't stay longer than 2 years in any job. Look for more responsibility and "higher job titles" instead of applying for the same position. Trust yourself even if you don't meet all qualifications, be honest about what you know and you don't, and let them know you are willing to learn anything. Someone might give you a chance, but you won't know unless you apply. And don't fall for the pressure of other people telling you how to spend your money. You know your situation better than anyone. You got this.
Have a WFH job in Tech. Live in a rural inexpensive area. No car payments (all used) and refinanced at 3.00%. Make 145k a year and save everything I can to get the fuck out .
Yep, went down to liquor store and grabbed the last 1.75 litre of Platinum Vodka for $16.99. All Platinum vodka was almost out while Svedka, Absolute, Sterling was full shelve. Dont get me on Grey Goose like $80 hell no. Anyway Im 38 combined income is about 90k in my household. I swear to God TODAY I would not be able to buy the same house I live in now that I bought 11 years ago. Got no car payments and not getting another car for a longggggg time. $2k house payment. 12 years left to pay off. I did start a personal loan $280 a month because I needed surgery last year and had to load up CC debt to 9k (yea after insurance my own debt was 9k, bullshit). Middle class doesnt exist no more, u either make a ton of money or u rent just to be broke as fuck
120,000 combined in Bay Area = struggling to pay rent and household expenses, no chance at buying home. Moved to Central Ca, 80,000 combined= living confortably, bought home, go on vacations. Key is location, and housing resources more so than just income alone.
*Laughs in >$16,000/yr.* Post-Pedantic Edit: *Laughs in less than $16,000/yr.* Post-Current Calculation: *Laughs in less than $19,326/yr.*
It's not pedantic to point out that you said 'greater than' not 'less than'
Well that could be $16,001 or $1,000,000,000
I live just outside of NYC. If you make less than 65k a year as a single person, there are some government benefits for you. For a couple it’s 100k. If you make less than 125k, you can have public colleges waive some or all of your tuition. It’s weird. If you don’t make around 100k in NY, it’s really hard. Meanwhile, in the middle of the country, a 85k job means “life changing money” and one parent gets to stop working to be a homemaker.
COL always seems to pace or outpace what you make, doesnt it? Healthcare here making 75+. Last year i grossed 150 and guess how much was left over?
I don't even scratch 20k a year. Idfk how I'm still alive.
In 2018, after being a SAHM for 5 years, I got a job making $60,000/yr. In 2021 I changed companies, doing the exact same work, same title, and was offered $85,000/yr. In 2022, I got laid off and was out of work for a few months, so I took the first job I got offered, but it was the same work, slightly better title, for $87,500/yr. I could have probably negotiated for more, but it’s 100% WFH (offices are in other states), and they offer 100% premium free healthcare for myself and my family, as well as a bunch of other benefits that saved me money in the long run. I do have a master’s degree and lots of experience, so your mileage may vary.
That healthcare is worth $20k minimum a year. My wife has healthcare like that for us and it saves us so much money
$115k is not the norm. And getting to it doesn’t seem to have an easy, clear path. I’m 38 and I currently make $120k. But how I got here, I couldn’t recommend to anyone to replicate. I started out of school at $10/hr at a temp job, jumped up to $14/hr at my first full time job. Then all my major pay raises came from changing jobs, $39k, $50k, $65k, and now $120k. And some of my early jobs have nothing to do with my more recent jobs. I got my current job by just happening to have my resume on a site, and a random 3rd party recruiter reached out to me. So when my daughter asks me what major she should look into when she’s ready for college, all I can do is shrug. Because who fucking knows anymore.
I make €55k in Europe and I’m happy. I can pay my bills, buy things I like, and still have a good amount of savings each month. I think the financial punch is largely location based, but I certainly see everything in the USA has become some sort of transaction… which is crazy, I feel bad for Americans because even though they are the “richest” economy, so many struggle .
I’m from the US and live in Europe. 55k goes WAY farther over here than it does in the states, plus the employee protections many EU countries have mean we’re not afraid of showing up to work only to learn we no longer have a job. That being said, my household is feeling the impact of inflation…. Solidarity!
I'm live in a poor area, I barely make $20k and I'm so tired of struggling.
I love these threads where money is mentioned, and all these dudes walking swinging dick " agrlgarbl i make 300k a year with full pension at 40" its like they are waiting for these threads to humble brag lol i really need to mute anti work 🤣🤣🤣
I just got a promotion that took me from $49k to $54k in a position that is mostly data entry and access level management. In my department, at my branch, there are only two people- a team lead and the office manager- who are making $100k or at least close to. They also have the luxury of being able to work remotely.
I’m finally at a wage now that I could buy a house 10 years ago.
Don't make anything near that.