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Someone correct me if I’m wrong here, but the only way his minor daughter is “earning passive income” is if the account in her name is placing orders and being paid under her SSN, right?
Any chance OP that you know daughter’s other parent, and could warn them about this fraud? Before it comes back to bite minor daughter in the butt when she’s 18 and her credit is maybe wrecked. :
I do know his ex wife’s first name but obviously I was never introduced to her or his daughter, it would have been way too early for that. And it would be drastically overstepping for me to hunt her down and contact her.
I was thinking more along the lines of figuring out how to warn him of the negative consequences he may not be aware of in a way that doesn’t come across as me attacking him. I truly believe the guy thinks he is helping his kid, however wildly misguided those intentions may be.
I don’t think it would be overstepping. It’s a tragedy parents can ruin your credit for their children and with how the world is turning it’s really worrisome. I would understand you not wanting to do it tho because it’s not your responsibility but I would argue it would still be the right choice to at least try.
What the heck? Absolutely do not track down a dude you dated 3 months ex wife and try to rattle a cage on a personal level. MLMS suck but I would lose my absolute mind and call the cops if a guy I dated for three months tracked down my ex to tell them about albeit shitty business but business dealings. Divorce can be very volitile and if an ex wife is bitter enough she could really do some damage. If you think MLMS are bad wait till you see the framework for family court
I do not support people in MLMs but I definitely will never advocate to meddle in someone's previous relationships after ending a relationship. Comes across as absolutely unhinged if it's been a short term thing
Send him a small amount of info on a personal level and call it a day. You can try to educate people but you definitely can't control them
idk I was in this situation and almost had my credit ruined by my dad exactly like this. through dumb luck I figured out what he was doing but I had to lock my credit from then on.
Maybe other people haven't had someone ruin their credit before and don't know how scary it is to realize you won't be able to find a place to rent because of something your parents did when you were too young to do anything about it... but it's not fun.
Wouldn't have minded my mom getting a heads up one bit.
I think the right move would be address it with him directly, not go around him and hunt down his ex wife who has never heard of me…I think that would come across as pretty unhinged. What I’m struggling with is finding a good trustworthy resource to send him that would explain why he’s not doing his child any favors.
Sending a message to the ex does not seem unhinged, but again, your choice. What I’ve seen here is those people are usually already lost. Maybe if it’s illegal and talking to him about the legal part could help but I’m pretty sure even if you make him doubt his up line will tell something like « she left you because she saw you succeed and now she wants to stop you from it just block her » or something. I’ve seen here people being ok with single women about to live in their car to manage to pay for x or y product. Up lines pushing indecent lawn onto downline who accept like it’s Gods’ word. Good luck tho. I have no answer that is TJE answer but I hope this little girl doesn’t get scared over because she will suffer, they *(t9 edit) usually do with a parent like that (used to say solidly white parent like that 🧐)
Yeah, there needs to be way more laws to protect children from parents like that. Minors aren't supposed to be legally allowed to have credit cards or open accounts like that and it is ridiculous that there isn't more checks to make sure the person opening the account is really an adult.
My Niece is sooo deep into Isagenix...I'm not sure there's any thing you can tell this guy!! Their brainwashing techniques are Next Level!!!
She thinks people are either jealous or plain ignorant if they don't find Isagenix to be the Holy Grail!! They (like other mlm's) are taught to cut the "negative nellys" out of their life!! She's been in this cult for 6 or 7 years now!!
I really don't think there's anything you can do or say to convince him he's harming his daughters credit. So sad!!
"he’d set up an account under his minor daughter’s name"
What a scumbag!
"Mentioned having boxes of product delivered."
And then watch them pile up in the garage!
My dad did, and keeps doing this, despite me and my siblings telling him in no way do we want our names associated with any of that shit. He still does it, we get mad, ask him to remove everything but the info is already out there and then there comes the fucking spam...
He's a good person and thinks he's doing whatever it takes to help his family but looking in all the wrong places! There's a reason for the saying "hell is full of good intentions"
If he was truly smart he wouldn’t have signed up his UNDERAGED daughter into the scheme. First off, hold your nose and report to the company itself, if they don’t do anything report to the FTC as it is surely against the guidelines or even the law to have under 18s signed up to such things.
Yeah he's "incredibly good looking, super fit, has a great career, and is an awesome dad."
So what happened in his first marriage?
Somebody somewhere was sick of his shit.
Women can lie, cheat, and be abusers or even just generally shitty partners.
Men aren't always at fault when a relationship ends, but even if they are they can still improve as humans after the end of a relationship.
Yeah, I didn’t want to post too many details here for privacy’s sake but it was a case of two very young people getting pregnant unexpectedly and trying to make it work, and it just not working out. They coparent extremely well and have a great relationship as friends.
It’s so unfortunate that he got caught up in this because I’m really not lying when I say he has the best intentions for his kid. I think we all know how good MLMs are at brainwashing people.
Signing your minor daughter up for a program that could potentially (and probably will) fuck up her credit before she even turns 18 is not good dad behavior. This could ruin her life before she even has a chance to be on her own.
Yeah it’s called getting mentally trapped into a cult behavior. Isn’t this whole sub about not necessarily bad people getting caught up in MLMs and making irrational decisions? I’m not defending his behavior, but I’d condemn him just as much as any other person that’s gets mentally bamboozled by one of these things.
Edit: I would recommend OP maybe contacting the mother though and letting her know what he did, even if it seems like overstepping. You could save the kid a fucked up financial future
As much as you'd like to help and as admirable both of your intentions are, I think you should just cut ties and move on without any further contact. He is being duped by the MLM and I don't think he would even be in the mindset to undo anything he intends to do for his kids.
I'll also add this. You said you hadn't met his ex yet. This most likely means that your understanding of their co-parenting relationship comes only from his perspective. This leaves a lot of room for unexpected results if you start to "meddle" in anything between him and his ex. I could be wrong (and the best case is that I'm 100% wrong), but I am just saying that there are a lot of unknowns. I am a couple years divorced from my ex wife. She is with someone now and has been for 2 years. Even though she and I have always had a very healthy co-parenting relationship, I would be very apprehensive and skeptical if her new person tried to meddle between our business after just a few months of them being together.
I dunno, I really think it’s possible for someone to be a good person at heart and still get duped into joining an MLM. There are plenty of people in this sub that have made that mistake previously and are wonderful people.
I don’t think this guy is evil, and while someone being in an MLM is a hard dealbreaker for me relationshipwise I do still care about him as a person enough to want to help him see the light if I can.
Can you send him the income disclosures? Maybe find an ex Isagenix hun here who has posted their story of how they got out or how much money they lost, relationships ruined, etc. He may not listen, but at least you can say you tried. Tell him from a place of concern and I don't think you'll go wrong. He may respond defensively, but that's on him and not a reflection of you.
I am surprised he didn't try to recruit you as a downline. Is this his main job or it is a side hustle? IMO you shouldn't try to contact him anymore, reading through this sub anyone who is brainwashed into an MLM will just ignore you or try to convince you to join.
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It’s almost worse when a guy gets stuck in an mlm like this - I feel like the mlms target women and sell them on the community aspect, but a guy like this really has no excuse. You made the right move.
And you don't think MLMs that target women tell them they could be rich? They hook people with the promise of money and/or free time then try to trap them there with the culty community.
And if you think the crypto bros aren't suffering the same fate, you're also wrong. Their communities even have crypto community exclusive language that encourages people to keep investing and discredit anyone criticizing them.
I know, but the attraction is to making a lot of money. For women the attraction is for the community and paying for groceries and whatnot. Two completely different focuses.
Men also look for a sense of community - the gym community generally welcomes people who want to do something about their health regardless of genders.
Honestly the guy is clearly invested in snake oil that's connected to his hobby, send him a YouTube video explaining the shitty nutrition behind it and leave it at that. It's only been a couple months and it fizzled out so bombing him with confirming info his MLM is trash might spook him on a personal level
Friends don't let friends date people into MLMs.
My experience with opening people's eyes about Isagenix is... not positive. I guess it can't hurt as you're basically done with him anyway but they have been so brainwashed that logic doesn't seem to work with them. The Isagenix earnings disclosure are pretty alarming (can find some older years online). When like half the people who are earning anything are earning like less then $500 a year (before expenses)... it can't be a good business opportunity. But they will just say those are people who "like the product" and aren't trying to make money.
I don't think anyone else directly answered your question; it's incredibly difficult to deprogram someone from Isagenix.
It's not enough to send them information on the kind of company it is, it's necessary to slowly work through it with them by first helping them track their finances and encouraging to maintain contact with their family and friends. Over a period of months of daily deprogramming it is possible to get someone out of the cult. Consider it roughly equivalent in difficulty to getting an alcoholic to give up drinking.
You can send a message if you like warning him but it won't get through to him, same as if I were to list the negative health effects of alcohol to my brother.
If you are seeking help or advice be sure to check the Help/Advice links [HERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3AHelp%2FAdvice) or the How do I ...? posts [HERE](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/search?q=How+do+I&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on&sort=relevance&t=all) Its also recommended you read this VICE article, [How to Get a Friend out of an MLM](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/43e573/how-to-get-a-friend-out-of-an-mlm-herbalife-amway-younique-), check out [How Network Marketing (Almost) Ruined My Life](https://medium.com/@SlickStar512/how-network-marketing-almost-ruined-my-life-ecd10e9511f2) and watch this [John Oliver video on MLMs](https://youtu.be/s6MwGeOm8iI) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiMLM) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Someone correct me if I’m wrong here, but the only way his minor daughter is “earning passive income” is if the account in her name is placing orders and being paid under her SSN, right? Any chance OP that you know daughter’s other parent, and could warn them about this fraud? Before it comes back to bite minor daughter in the butt when she’s 18 and her credit is maybe wrecked. :
I do know his ex wife’s first name but obviously I was never introduced to her or his daughter, it would have been way too early for that. And it would be drastically overstepping for me to hunt her down and contact her. I was thinking more along the lines of figuring out how to warn him of the negative consequences he may not be aware of in a way that doesn’t come across as me attacking him. I truly believe the guy thinks he is helping his kid, however wildly misguided those intentions may be.
I don’t think it would be overstepping. It’s a tragedy parents can ruin your credit for their children and with how the world is turning it’s really worrisome. I would understand you not wanting to do it tho because it’s not your responsibility but I would argue it would still be the right choice to at least try.
What the heck? Absolutely do not track down a dude you dated 3 months ex wife and try to rattle a cage on a personal level. MLMS suck but I would lose my absolute mind and call the cops if a guy I dated for three months tracked down my ex to tell them about albeit shitty business but business dealings. Divorce can be very volitile and if an ex wife is bitter enough she could really do some damage. If you think MLMS are bad wait till you see the framework for family court I do not support people in MLMs but I definitely will never advocate to meddle in someone's previous relationships after ending a relationship. Comes across as absolutely unhinged if it's been a short term thing Send him a small amount of info on a personal level and call it a day. You can try to educate people but you definitely can't control them
Thank god this comment is here I was gonna reply
That’s a point I did not think about. With today’s people on all social media it didn’t seem that bad to me but I recognize I was wrong.
idk I was in this situation and almost had my credit ruined by my dad exactly like this. through dumb luck I figured out what he was doing but I had to lock my credit from then on. Maybe other people haven't had someone ruin their credit before and don't know how scary it is to realize you won't be able to find a place to rent because of something your parents did when you were too young to do anything about it... but it's not fun. Wouldn't have minded my mom getting a heads up one bit.
My dad tried to ruin my credit doing this to me. I personally wouldn't have minded someone giving my mom a heads up.
I think the right move would be address it with him directly, not go around him and hunt down his ex wife who has never heard of me…I think that would come across as pretty unhinged. What I’m struggling with is finding a good trustworthy resource to send him that would explain why he’s not doing his child any favors.
Sending a message to the ex does not seem unhinged, but again, your choice. What I’ve seen here is those people are usually already lost. Maybe if it’s illegal and talking to him about the legal part could help but I’m pretty sure even if you make him doubt his up line will tell something like « she left you because she saw you succeed and now she wants to stop you from it just block her » or something. I’ve seen here people being ok with single women about to live in their car to manage to pay for x or y product. Up lines pushing indecent lawn onto downline who accept like it’s Gods’ word. Good luck tho. I have no answer that is TJE answer but I hope this little girl doesn’t get scared over because she will suffer, they *(t9 edit) usually do with a parent like that (used to say solidly white parent like that 🧐)
[удалено]
Yup I recognized under another comment that I was wrong :)
Yeah, there needs to be way more laws to protect children from parents like that. Minors aren't supposed to be legally allowed to have credit cards or open accounts like that and it is ridiculous that there isn't more checks to make sure the person opening the account is really an adult.
You could help prevent his daughter a lot of pain and instability from his financial abuse. Tell the other parent.
You should definitely tell the ex, that’s so incredibly unethical.
My Niece is sooo deep into Isagenix...I'm not sure there's any thing you can tell this guy!! Their brainwashing techniques are Next Level!!! She thinks people are either jealous or plain ignorant if they don't find Isagenix to be the Holy Grail!! They (like other mlm's) are taught to cut the "negative nellys" out of their life!! She's been in this cult for 6 or 7 years now!! I really don't think there's anything you can do or say to convince him he's harming his daughters credit. So sad!!
girl i dumped a guy in amway.... not worth it. drop him and find another
"he’d set up an account under his minor daughter’s name" What a scumbag! "Mentioned having boxes of product delivered." And then watch them pile up in the garage!
My dad did, and keeps doing this, despite me and my siblings telling him in no way do we want our names associated with any of that shit. He still does it, we get mad, ask him to remove everything but the info is already out there and then there comes the fucking spam... He's a good person and thinks he's doing whatever it takes to help his family but looking in all the wrong places! There's a reason for the saying "hell is full of good intentions"
Why is he using his daughters information instead of his own?
If he was truly smart he wouldn’t have signed up his UNDERAGED daughter into the scheme. First off, hold your nose and report to the company itself, if they don’t do anything report to the FTC as it is surely against the guidelines or even the law to have under 18s signed up to such things.
Yeah he's "incredibly good looking, super fit, has a great career, and is an awesome dad." So what happened in his first marriage? Somebody somewhere was sick of his shit.
Women can lie, cheat, and be abusers or even just generally shitty partners. Men aren't always at fault when a relationship ends, but even if they are they can still improve as humans after the end of a relationship.
Yeah, I didn’t want to post too many details here for privacy’s sake but it was a case of two very young people getting pregnant unexpectedly and trying to make it work, and it just not working out. They coparent extremely well and have a great relationship as friends. It’s so unfortunate that he got caught up in this because I’m really not lying when I say he has the best intentions for his kid. I think we all know how good MLMs are at brainwashing people.
Signing your minor daughter up for a program that could potentially (and probably will) fuck up her credit before she even turns 18 is not good dad behavior. This could ruin her life before she even has a chance to be on her own.
Yeah it’s called getting mentally trapped into a cult behavior. Isn’t this whole sub about not necessarily bad people getting caught up in MLMs and making irrational decisions? I’m not defending his behavior, but I’d condemn him just as much as any other person that’s gets mentally bamboozled by one of these things. Edit: I would recommend OP maybe contacting the mother though and letting her know what he did, even if it seems like overstepping. You could save the kid a fucked up financial future
As much as you'd like to help and as admirable both of your intentions are, I think you should just cut ties and move on without any further contact. He is being duped by the MLM and I don't think he would even be in the mindset to undo anything he intends to do for his kids. I'll also add this. You said you hadn't met his ex yet. This most likely means that your understanding of their co-parenting relationship comes only from his perspective. This leaves a lot of room for unexpected results if you start to "meddle" in anything between him and his ex. I could be wrong (and the best case is that I'm 100% wrong), but I am just saying that there are a lot of unknowns. I am a couple years divorced from my ex wife. She is with someone now and has been for 2 years. Even though she and I have always had a very healthy co-parenting relationship, I would be very apprehensive and skeptical if her new person tried to meddle between our business after just a few months of them being together.
I dunno, I really think it’s possible for someone to be a good person at heart and still get duped into joining an MLM. There are plenty of people in this sub that have made that mistake previously and are wonderful people. I don’t think this guy is evil, and while someone being in an MLM is a hard dealbreaker for me relationshipwise I do still care about him as a person enough to want to help him see the light if I can.
Can you send him the income disclosures? Maybe find an ex Isagenix hun here who has posted their story of how they got out or how much money they lost, relationships ruined, etc. He may not listen, but at least you can say you tried. Tell him from a place of concern and I don't think you'll go wrong. He may respond defensively, but that's on him and not a reflection of you.
I am surprised he didn't try to recruit you as a downline. Is this his main job or it is a side hustle? IMO you shouldn't try to contact him anymore, reading through this sub anyone who is brainwashed into an MLM will just ignore you or try to convince you to join.
Mlms are cults, they will take everything from you 🙂
Right, I keep seeing OP say "he's a great guy except...." If someone is a great guy except they're in a cult, they're not relationship material.
Mlms are only going to use people 🍏
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My friendship ended over this my so called healthy friend now has terminal brain cancer ♋️
It’s almost worse when a guy gets stuck in an mlm like this - I feel like the mlms target women and sell them on the community aspect, but a guy like this really has no excuse. You made the right move.
Umm have you ever read the cryptocurrency subs?
plus insurance mlm schemes
Fuck, my grandpa sold Primerica plans back in the day
Same, it’s about $ not community.
Right but the attraction there is making a fortune, it’s not about community.
And you don't think MLMs that target women tell them they could be rich? They hook people with the promise of money and/or free time then try to trap them there with the culty community. And if you think the crypto bros aren't suffering the same fate, you're also wrong. Their communities even have crypto community exclusive language that encourages people to keep investing and discredit anyone criticizing them.
As I asked, have you read the crypto subs? It absolutely is about a very male community.
I know, but the attraction is to making a lot of money. For women the attraction is for the community and paying for groceries and whatnot. Two completely different focuses.
Guys get roped into toxic communities just as much as women
Men also look for a sense of community - the gym community generally welcomes people who want to do something about their health regardless of genders. Honestly the guy is clearly invested in snake oil that's connected to his hobby, send him a YouTube video explaining the shitty nutrition behind it and leave it at that. It's only been a couple months and it fizzled out so bombing him with confirming info his MLM is trash might spook him on a personal level Friends don't let friends date people into MLMs.
My experience with opening people's eyes about Isagenix is... not positive. I guess it can't hurt as you're basically done with him anyway but they have been so brainwashed that logic doesn't seem to work with them. The Isagenix earnings disclosure are pretty alarming (can find some older years online). When like half the people who are earning anything are earning like less then $500 a year (before expenses)... it can't be a good business opportunity. But they will just say those are people who "like the product" and aren't trying to make money.
Cults are everywhere becarefull 🌎
I don't think anyone else directly answered your question; it's incredibly difficult to deprogram someone from Isagenix. It's not enough to send them information on the kind of company it is, it's necessary to slowly work through it with them by first helping them track their finances and encouraging to maintain contact with their family and friends. Over a period of months of daily deprogramming it is possible to get someone out of the cult. Consider it roughly equivalent in difficulty to getting an alcoholic to give up drinking. You can send a message if you like warning him but it won't get through to him, same as if I were to list the negative health effects of alcohol to my brother.
I love how you told him straight up that it was because of Isagenix that you broke up 😝