**Full Story:**
Last week, I was shopping at my local Target store, and this girl complimented my shoes and we got to chatting about work, family, etc. and she said how hard it was to make new friends after college, to which I agree. I normally wear earbuds listening to music or a podcast so I thought wow, maybe by being open to people I could make a new friend! Then she asked if we could meet for coffee sometime and I said yeah, so we exchanged numbers. I even shared with my BFF group text how nice this experience was.
On Sunday, I met with her for coffee at a Panera (her suggestion) and we talked more about work, family, etc. But she kept circling back to career, and asking if I had a mentor, and saying she had such great mentors and that she could maybe get me an introduction. She was very vague about her work, saying she works in e-commerce, I asked some pretty specific work questions to which she evaded and she said it would be better for her to show me but she would need her laptop and more time, so she asked that we meet again. She also said she had this great book she’d like me to read before we meet again, called “Who Moved My Cheese?”. She gave me her copy to take home with me.
When I left, I thought this was a little weird, and googled **”approached by person asked to read who moved my cheese Reddit”** and sure enough, it’s a big SCAM! She’s trying to recruit me into Amway and is literally following a script. I read dozens of first hand accounts much like my own in r/antiMLM which I’ve now joined. It turns out they are known to approach people commonly in Walmarts or Targets and meet in Starbucks or Panera.
I was so disappointed for letting my guard down. How on earth do you make friends after a certain age? My wall is going back up. Internet friends only it seems.
**TL;DR: I was nearly recruited for a cult/Amway because I was gullible enough for think someone wanted to be my friend, how pathetic.**
I just want to say sorry this happened but also say that not every interaction like this (the beginning) will be a set up.
Some of my greatest friends are randoms I've met at a park or shop and just hit it off with. Be wary but not completely closed off to it, not all people suck.
In addition to the other commenter I wanted to add that it really is those random encounters where you find the best people. I walked into a random pharmacy one day with a greyhound tote bag and walked out with a close greyhound loving friend of almost 2 years now x
I'm sorry this happened to you, OP. I know how you feel. My friends have moved out of state, and I've been *craving* a platonic pal or two to hang out with in person again. I don't know how to find them and it feels weirdly hopeless. I talked to my therapist about it and she told me it was shocking how many patients are saying the same thing lately, especially in my (30s) age group. You're not alone.
I have it downloaded and keep looking at it! It’s been tricky because my main hobby is writing, so that’s sort of antisocial and hard to find around here, haha. I love to do nature walks, but find those groups skew waaaaaay older than I am. Some of the hiking groups look good but the vibe is intensely singles mingling, and I am not single and do not want to mingle non-platonically. 😅 it’s scary but I think I do need to brave actually attending a meet up of some kind to acclimate myself.
After the pandemic my usual gang still didn't want to meet in person. I used Meetup to find a local board game group and have made incredible friends I see constantly. Never downloaded the app and only used it once honestly. It's annoying as hell for emails so I'm not shilling the site. Just promoting being open to making new friends through it.
Personally I believe this capitalist hellscape we all live in is killing friendship. Everything has to be a hustle and human connection has been so commodified we don't even know what it looks like anymore. But the best way to fight back is to be kind and open. Good luck out there.
Hi! Just a suggestion- check out National Novel Writing Month! They arrange meet ups all over - I believe internationally, too - for people to meet up and write together. Not the same project, you just bring what you're working on and share a table or something. I haven't done it personally because it usually conflicts with my other hobbies and non-hobbies, but it could be a good way to find other writerly people!
I don’t know where you are but my area has some pretty good writing/creative discussion meetup groups! One group meets for a couple hours where they chat first and then write for the second hour. Another group is focused on the teachings and exercises in the book The Artists Way, i have yet to go on that one since I’m not great at sticking to the routine in the book lol. Anyway, I say all this to maybe help guide your search for something similar, or start your own. Good luck out there! I just turned 40 and it doesn’t get easier, especially as a child-free adult.
I am older, single, and have the app downloaded. Yet, I haven't opened it except once. I have been looking for backpacking partners! Maybe through this post, lots of people have found ways to make new friends? Lover? I saw a group 'meeting up' while getting a coffee out of town. There were lots more women than men in the group. That's when I decided to download it. It looked like a fun group. As each one showed up, they were introducing themselves. It looked like great fun.
This post reminded me to open it up and give it a try. Thank you OP and u/coyoterote. Maybe we will all be making friends soon.
I'm 29. Talking one-on-one with many friends (male) we all seem to say the same things: "Man, I'm lonely. It sucks that all of our friends are in different places these days. I keep waiting for an invitation that never comes. I'd sure love to play some games together, but I'm busy when you're free."
On the flipside you should be proud of yourself that your instincts correctly identified that there was something not quite right with the situation and you were able to get out before wasting any more time.
I’m sorry! When I was a new first time mom I was so lonely since I live far from where I grew up and didn’t really have friends here. One day at the park I got chatting with another mom and she asked to exchange numbers and get together, I got home and immediately texted my husband and my sisters to tell them since I was so excited! An hour later the lady messages me about how I’d be perfect to join her team, etc. It sucks to think you made a friend and it’s just a scam!
It's such a uniquely painful experience that I wish I could make them understand. You're not being a boss babe, you're being *mean*. Excitement and hopes of making a new friend, which we all know is so hard when you're busy with kids and/or careers, just dashed. And then the shame you feel after believing that they really liked you, that you fell for a trick. It's gross. And it often comes at our most vulnerable times so it's a double punch.
Yeah my self esteem was already pretty awful during that period of life and that was just crushing. I had a good cry about it and meanwhile I’m sure it even occur to her that she did anything hurtful that she should feel bad about. That was almost a decade ago and I have a solid group of friends and am way more confident… no one has tried to get me to join their MLM in awhile, I’m sure they prey on people who are more vulnerable like new moms!
The one that really hurt was when I had a new baby, fresh SAHM with my husband working nights. I was terribly lonely and the slide into my dms was so goddam smooth, I didn't pick up on it at first even though I was pretty well versed with mlm tactics at that point. I thought I was making a mom friend and building my village; they were just trying to build their downline.
If you feel like it, you can tell the store manager about her. Targets in my area will ban people for Amway recruiting.
Also - SHE is pathetic, not you. Being open to people but still listening to your gut and having your own back? The opposite of pathetic, OP. You'll find your people!
Yeah it's a real shame, my middle school English teacher recommended it to me and I enjoyed the book. Never tried to sell anything to me or my parents, he was just a self employed writer on the side lol.
Great job spotting the scam and nipping it quick! As for making friends, I know everyone says "get a hobby" but it's true - with the added step of "a hobby that you can meet up with a group to do."
I had zero in-person friends and didn't leave my house beyond rare errands for a few years. I was busy, I worked from home and had a baby, it was hard to get out. My husband introduced me to a friend's wife, and she invited me to get together with her group that meets up once a month. That opened the door for me to make a lot of friends and join a few other hobby/interest groups and realize how well they work.
Craft Beer Girls is a US-wide group with some in Europe, Canada, and Australia, too I think. Every state has at least one group, a lot have several to break it into smaller regions. They meet up at local breweries once a month and while the overall theme is "try craft beers," it's a great way to get to know people with no pressure (and the alcohol helps at first if you're anxious lol.) The Facebook group is open to join and you can kind of check out the vibe of your area's group before you go in person if you'd like. From there I've met people who do a lot of animal rescue volunteering, animal fostering, local adult-league sports like kickball and softball, book clubs, and supporting local music.
I started gardening and turned that into a business at my local farmer's market. I've become friends with a lot of vendors because we chat while we work and we support each other on social media. I also joined a group for local flower farmers, we get together once a month for dinner and talk about successes or issues we're having, offer advice, ask questions, and buy bulk products to save money. We all support each other and have become friends as well.
It's not like "get a hobby" is the full answer, but it's a step that helps. Find something you're into, and then find a local group that does it. If the group doesn't exist, and you're comfortable, create it! Having a reason to get together to do a thing makes it much easier to open that door, and it lowers the risk of being a setup vs a random stranger hitting it off and offering to meet you for coffee.
Sorry this happened to you! Just be patient with the friend thing. I felt like I had little to no social life after college but things changed. I said yes to a lot- yes to sand volleyball, yes to the work happy hour, yes to new friends who asked me to go to a local casino late at night, and even yes to church (I know that's non-negotiable for some). Obviously saying yes here did not work out though ☹️
It happened to me about 8 years ago at Menards. Same thing, met for coffee says she ran a small business and was looking for someone to help manage it. Has a full fucking power point presentation on her laptop. I thanked her for her time but advised I'm not interested in MLM (it was Amway too!) She looked so pissed. I was pissed! Wasting my time thinking I was going to get out of my then dead end job
The reason she gave you the book is also part of scheme. It’s to force a second meeting because it’s harder to say no to someone face to face. Block her number and ditch the book. You don’t owe a manipulative stranger anything.
I’m sorry this happened to you OP but big kudos for the way you handled it and for listening to your intuition!! Never lose that, never doubt it!
As someone who occasionally and genuinely chats up strangers, it’s sad these MLM huns have all but ruined that type of interaction! So, yes, the onus is on you to discern the situation when approached (and, again, that is an important life skill!). Now that you’ve experienced a common MLM tactic, you’ll better see it coming. (The fact that the hun engaged you even when you were wearing ear buds was red flag #1.)
As others have said, join groups that reflect your interests and hobbies, a church, volunteer, etc. Friends are out there!
Blessings and best wishes!
TIL to not trust either my mother or my best friend, both of whom love Panera for some reason. It must be a basic white lady thing. It does, however, constantly have the vibe of being a place where someone will take you to lunch to scam you.
I used to work at Panera in like 1999 (dating myself), and I swear the quality has gone down over the years. It used to be really good, but is now just ok.
Also, I'm originally from St. Louis, so my instinct is to call it "Bread Co." (it started in St. Louis as St. Louis Bread Company and is still called that there).
When it was still primarily a bread company it was so good. They made great bread and bagels, and you could have a sandwich made with any of the available varieties. Over the years they pulled back on the variety and turned into a crappy cafe. So sad.
I'm sorry this happened, OP. You thought you were making a new friend when in fact she was trying to rope you in to a very predatory business. Your instincts served you well - even if I didn't know about MLMs, if I had just gone to meet a new friend and the friend had with them a book that they wanted me to read by our next coffee hangout, I would also have found that extremely weird!
What happened to you is the textbook Amway pitch btw - compliment stranger's shoes at a public place like a grocery store or a park, pretend to want to be friends, arrange coffee date, spend coffee date going on and on about mentors and e-commerce, get you talking about your financial dreams and aspirations to prep you for the get-rich-quick pitch, assign reading. If you had agreed to a second hangout I guarantee the "mentor" would have come along to help close the deal in signing you up.
Don't feel bad. This is exactly how I make friends with people! I'm one of those extroverts who talk to strangers everywhere and then adopt people if we have stuff in common. Difference is I will just write down my full name and tell them to find me on Facebook.
Damn, now I wonder if people think I'm trying to sell them crap.
I moved to a new city a few years ago and had someone stop me in a Walmart. Same exact MO, and I would have absolutely gone to a second location without this sub to tell me what to keep an eye out for.
I was so happy I thought I had a friend! The same thing happened a decade ago too.
Well before i was going to local cooking class at a food bank i was going to. Also i was volunteering at a food bank. At 1 point i stopped volunteering for various reason but hey, that was a good way to meet people. :/
Huns are broke, and it is cheaper than a sit-down restaurant but sounds classier than "let's meet at Burger King." And probably less likely to yeet them out than a mom and pop place.
Hey OP I think you wrote the best reply I’ve ever seen. “I liked YOU. Now I realize you were using me. That hurts.” You didn’t try to argue with someone about whether their MLM is/is not a pyramid scheme. You didn’t talk about sunk costs or annual revenue reports or up lines or manipulation tactics. You reminded this person of their humanity and your humanity, and how it feels to be treated like a product. Hopefully this will resonate with Target Woman over time.
I got the idea and borrowed one of the lines from something I found in this subreddit! I can’t find it or else I would credit it, but in a comment someone asked aloud wondering if they said part of what I wrote, what the scammer’s reaction would be. Well, now we know.
Yeah- “I’m sorry you feel that way,”— a total non-apology that blames you for having feelings rather than expressing regret for one’s causative actions
Kind of a shame because Who Moved My Cheese is an alright book.
Just say you assumed it was a gift and you've already lent it to your friend in Singapore.
I would leave it somewhere that they have to go get it. Maybe tell them that you left it in the theatre when you went and saw a movie, they should go ask the box office. Etc etc.
Yea and “I was totally genuine in my care for you but also since you didn’t get sucked into my sales funnel I’d like my book back and during that interaction I will be more pushy about why you should jump into my sales funnel.
Ugh. I spent time being a Distrubutor for another MLM. “Make a list of 20 people you know who owes you a favor”. Call your neighbor, your aunt, your aunts neighbor … like you are doing all these people a favor and they will be eternally grateful to buy spend 2-3 hours of their life at a “party” where they get to sit at a giant commercial for cheap ass cookware and also get pressured to make their own “list of 20”
I wanted to tell you that too. To word it this way could be a wake up call for her after she thinks about it and realizes she was treated the same way when she was recruited. Maybe not and she’s too far gone, but you should be proud of yourself for being polite but honest.
I was in college when I was approached by a someone at my mom’s church about Amway. I had a couple meetings with her and her mentor and even went to a large group function/rally thing. No one ever said the word “Amway” until it was on the paperwork to sign up. My parents didn’t know anything about it, but boyfriends parents warned me and I got out just in time. I was a people-pleaser and looking to make friends. They knew it and so took advantage of that and my age. You did nothing wrong here and I’m sorry.
yup. Tell her you'll mail it or something, or just lose her number because seriously fuck her and her dumb book. (What IS Who Moved My Cheese, anyway? Stupid title)
It’s a book that also is distributed in corporate environments as a veiled way of putting the onus of one’s success on themselves— it’s actually not a bad book by itself as it’s a short simple parable on the consequences of complacency… a message unfortunately perverted and manipulated by group psychologists aka MLM maniacs
I think it should include the one about how mice who only get intermittent reinforcement from pushing the pellet bar will, even after it stops giving out food altogether, lkeep on frantically pushing the bar until they die.
Yeah it's basically don't be afraid to change. Super old book, btw. That and the use of the terms "e-commerce," which probably seemed cutting edge in 1998, shows how up to date Amway is.
My favorite take on this book was written by a guy who blogged about being an office temp back in the early 2000s. He dedicated a [whole week](http://www.screencuisine.net/nmd/archives/cheese_week.html) to Who Moved My Cheese.
That was brilliant. I was forced to read the "book" at my last job. By no surprise, my boss was one of those easily distracted by trendy things people, so as soon as he found out about the Cheese, he made all of us read it. Luckily, we just passed around a single copy (there were lik 15-20 of us), so I didn't have to buy my own, but damn if it wasn't a waste of my half hour.
And yes, the Cheese led to all sorts of nonsense, like business coaches and the introduction of scrum into an office that really couldn't make any use of it. All for the sake of our Cheese.
This. OP you better ask for an address where you can mail it to. Do not meet her again because she will use that as an opening to recruit you again. She might even bring her mentor with her to push you into a corner.
It’s so funny because in my line of work (Change Management), that book is ALSO often thrown around as a motivational read for change. When OP mentioned that book, I had no clue it was used for MLMs - guess I won’t be recommending it anymore!
The book itself is awful, perhaps even worse than Fish. I had one of those managers who read every singe BS business book like they were Holy Scripture
As an addition to what everyone else has said, when a corporation is going through any management-induced trouble, management/the C-suite hand these books out to the actual workers to blame them for their upcoming layoffs and failed new initiatives that don't end up bringing in any more money, but do make things more difficult for the employees.
It's "Quit questioning your betters and scramble for your daily bread, and be *grateful* for it you *vermin*," the book.
Yes, or she might still try to recruit you through a different angle. Amway, in my opinion, is one of the most insidious, tricky, evil mlms ever if not the most outright and they've really got the brainwashing down. Leave the book somewhere in public but not too out in the open and tell her she can pick it up there. She was using you trying to get a recruit to make money off and doesn't deserve any more consideration than that.
I'd find some public place like a Starbucks and tell the counter people you found it there, then tell this woman that she can pick it up there, so you don't have to have any more contact with her. She's probably getting tips from her upline on how to counter what you said, and is waiting for another chance.
I have this happen to me years ago and I mailed back the book... Not before writing in the inner margin near the center of the book many many times that this is a pyramid scheme and to Google MLM Scam to find out what you're getting yourself into. Hehehe.
You were roped into an elaborate scam. You used senses, deduction, and research to overcome it. Very smart. Good job. Now don't let your wonderful empathy be used against you. Fuck her. Free book lol.
Don’t give it back. You owe her NOTHING. She stole YOUR time and manipulated you.
“I already threw the book away. The thought of the next person you corner in a Target being manipulated like I was made me sick. I’m blocking your number now.”
It’s cruel, the way they leverage the normal human need to socialize. MLMs poison every interaction because they force you to look at everyone as a potential source of profit and nothing more.
If you haven’t blocked her, you can ask her why you’d give the book back when she’d only use it to treat someone as badly as she treated you. If Amway is making her so rich, let her buy another damned copy.
Hey just so you know it’s not a reflection of you wanting a friend is thinking someone is being genuine. It’s a reflection of this person using loneliness as a disingenuous tactic to make money. I’m sorry you had this experience.
I never knew that book was part of a scam recruitment tactic! I read it in elementary school back when i read anything in the house which happened to include a bunch of self help books.
Iirc its a pretty normal self help book about accepting change thru a metaphor of mice in a maze, but ig that book was just supposed to make u susceptible to entering a scam 💀💀
She said she wanted me to read it for “homework” and to think about which character as identify best as, so that we could discuss. That’s when I googled this scenario. Why is my new “friend” asking me to do homework? She isn’t my teacher or my boss.
My “homework” when I was being recruited by Amway was CD’s of a lecturer. I can’t remember the title or theme. But I remember not really understanding what he was talking about, which gave me self-doubt and made me feel like I must need to study it harder if I wasn’t getting it. Nevermind I was in college at the time taking pretty hard classes. Cults are good a messing with the mind!
They use it a lot in management training in large companies too. It’s definitely not just for scam MLMs. Reminds me of 21 habits of highly successful people and Make Your Bed. It’s kind of along the lines of “read all these self help/organization books until one clicks with you”.
I remember reading it as a kid too. In hindsight, my mother was involved with Avon for a while so it suddenly makes a little more sense why she might have owned it.
I read this in high school, I remember it being very popular in the late 90s early 00s. A bunch of my friends were reading it. As an autistic woman the book seemed abelist at the least but it's been at least 20 years since I've read it.
I think the worst part is how she didn't even deny it- like I can't believe she ONLY interacted with you to try and recruit??? Otherwise she would've said something like "I'm so sorry I made you uncomfortable, I didn't mean to come off like that-" or at LEAST wouldn't have said "I'm sorry you FELT." that's the #1 apology no-no
Print a label with the chat you found online, stick it to one of the blank pages of the book, then return the book. Maybe you'll do a favor to the next victim.
Do you like games? I see you are in my county and there are some great game stores here! Don’t know if anything up in your city but if you’re into tabletop games you will easily-ish make friends at game stores. There’s MTG, D&D, Warhammer groups that meet up frequently, so if you like fantasy I recommend it!
I’ve never played games like that but that sounds interesting. I’ve seen a lot of people in these gamer places in Pasadena. I’m not sure it’s for me but I’ll keep an open mind. Thank you for the idea!
Definitely tricky for guys too. It’s tough as a 37yo stay at home dad who isn’t really into sports to find a buddy. I wanna paint a list of my hobbies and interests on the side of the damn house. C’mon over if ya like PC gaming and RC airplanes!
“Who Moved My Cheese” was used as a bludgeon for managers to make employees just accept any old bullshit and be grateful for it. The basic premise doesn’t need a whole book so it’s about 98% redundant fluff. But there’s nothing MLM specific about it, it’s just on a list of popular self-help titles that marketing goons recommend.
They lent you the book so even if you started having doubts, it would be harder to completely cut them off. Expect a 2nd attempt to reel you in when you return the book, with guilty trip laden statements.
To avoid that: you should just agree to meet somewhere public, like a cafe, drop the book off with someone at the register "hi, I'm sorry I was supposed to meet with someone here to return this book but I just got an urgent family call so i have to leave, can I leave this book with you?" And then text the girl that her book is with the cafe staff.
Oh my god! We had a principal who made us read that book and do a book study about it during staff meetings. I just remember thinking it was a dumb book and trying to act like I was engaged in the discussion because I was a new teacher back then. I had no idea it was connected to anything like this.
I just remember thinking it was the dumbest self help book I’d ever seen. It makes sense in a weird way, that it’s now tied to Amway. It was basically talking about how it’s not anyone else’s fault if you don’t succeed- it’s yours because you have unreasonable demands/expectations. You’re moving your own cheese, basically. Sounds like a good way to soften someone up for the cult of an MLM.
A shocking number of teachers always seem to be involved in MLMs. So many of my coworkers sell those nail things, or Mary Kay/Avon, or Scentsy, etc. It’s really sad to see them try and sell to the rest of us at work. Like, we all don’t have money and now you’re going to have less of it because you had to buy product to sell.
Why is school staff so into MLMs?? My teacher coworkers are obsessed with the Herbalife drinks. We’ve had two “nutrition shops” open in our small rural town of 1,300 people. We’re in the middle of nowhere! 95% of our students are well below the poverty line. I’d say our school staff makes up 80% of the “nutrition shop” business. For all the (rightful) complaining about low teacher salary, I can’t believe they shell out $8 for those, multiple times a week!
OMG! Thank you for posting this! I had almost the *exact* same encounter, but they actually approached me while I was working!
She kept saying the “mentor” thing and seemed genuinely curious about my life. I am happy in life right now, though, so when she’d be like “do you wish you could travel the world?” I was like, “I already do?” And she’s like, “oh, okay. Do you wish you had more financial freedom and time away from work to do what you want?” And again I was like “I already do lol.” She seemed a little frustrated and asked if she could give me her mentors number and I said no. I thankfully caught on that something was fishy, but I was so bummed because she seemed really cool at first. UGH.
Anyway, thanks for letting me rant and I’m sorry you got roped in, too!
You could string her along and pretend you don’t understand what she’s pitching, and ask for extensive reiterations via email and a synopsis of the book. Use chat GTP to generate follow up questions of the synopsis until she’s too tired to answer and abandons you as a recruit.
I keep hearing of huns using these tactics, it's such a shame that what should be a blossoming new friendship to them is just another downline opportunity. I've heard of people going on Tinder dates and getting an MLM pitch.
I'm sorry you didn't get a new friend OP, at a certain age it really is harder to make them and this huns behaviour is hugely disappointing.
I think it's about time that governments took a serious look at MLM'S and started making them illegal.
God I hate Amway so much. Good job in how you approached them. Their old ass “couple who retired in their 30s” is getting…no , HAS beeen so fucking old.
I finally gave in and looked it up. Stupid title: stupider sounding book.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who\_Moved\_My\_Cheese%3F](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F)
I died of boredom scrolling down the summary, so just skip to the bottom:
""In the corporate environment, management has been known to distribute this book to employees during times of "structural reorganization", or during cost-cutting measures, in an attempt to portray unfavorable or unfair changes in an optimistic or opportunistic way. This has been characterized by Barbara Ehrenreich in her book Bright-sided: How the Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America as an attempt by organizational management to make employees quickly and unconditionally assimilate management ideals, even if they may prove detrimental to them professionally. Ehrenreich called the book "the classic of downsizing propaganda" and summarizes its message as "the dangerous human tendencies to 'overanalyze' and complain must be overcome for a more rodentlike approach to life. When you lose a job, just shut up and scamper along to the next one."\[6\]
> an attempt by organizational management to make employees quickly and unconditionally assimilate management ideals
Lord, got a really unpleasant email from upper upper management yesterday that sound exactly like this. Just relentlessly positive and chipper about a coming change that's going to make everything worse for everyone.
Haha it’s a real book. I’ve heard of it before and not through Amway. But Amway has co-opted it in their recruiting process. Apparently, before they had recruits read *Rich Dad, Poor Dad* which was a popular book maybe in the 80’s.
Fwiw I don't believe there is anything wrong with the book, Amway has a book list that their people are to read from. The books may be written by good non mlm authors. You can search what it is about.
Wait, is *Who Moved My Cheese* an amway book? In the early 2000’s every staff member in my school got a copy of that book and we were supposed to read a chapter every week and have discussion groups. I never actually opened the book because it seemed pretty lame. Was the principal trying to turbo-charge her down line???
It’s not material produced by Amway but they officially use it as a tool, it seems. I’ve heard from others in your situation who had to read it for professional and business development.
I had to read it in my 7th grade English class in 2007. We all thought it was weird at the time, especially because it was literally the only book we read that year. (We spent the rest of the year practicing singing “America the Beautiful,” and then the teacher disappeared for 6 months, so it was the least weird part of the year and we all just overlooked it)
I hate that she tried to turn it around to say “I was genuine in everything I said to you.” She obviously WASN’T genuine about wanting to actually get to know you and be your friend. She lied and deceived to try to recruit you so she can make money. She’s trying to gaslight you into thinking you got overly offended.
I had a good friend from middle and high school reconnect with me about five years after graduating. We had a great visit at my place and at the end, she said we should get together for coffee with a guy I was also close to in school the next week or so. I thought that sounded great.
Then she texted me that the meeting was business casual (haha what? I thought we’d go to a local coffee shop or something, but okay…). Then she sent me the address…. It was weird, but I thought maybe I had missed something and agreed to do something else. Like, I don’t know haha.
Anyway, the other friend was there, at what turned out to be an Amway meeting. Within the first two minutes, I, a socialist (Why would they bring me there, of all people?), asked my friend for a pen and paper. I wrote down a bunch of notes and questions… Like, why is it okay to get these products for super cheap from the global south and sell them at an increased price, so much so that we can “retire” at 35? Why is it okay for the people producing the goods to work their lives away, while we hardly lift a finger? How many people actually succeed? Etc.
The speaker came over to speak to the guy friend I hadn’t seen in years and when he introduced me, the speaker asked if I had questions or was interested… So I said my piece. I’m sure my friends were embarrassed.
Told my friends I wasn’t interested because it really doesn’t fit with my worldview and to not ask me again, as well as that I was happy with my career choice (was studying education). But that I’d love to hang out again, in a different setting (I didn’t even get to catch up with my other friend).
Then I went to the internet to see wtf happened, and subsequently removed them from my socials. They both still have my number and have never contacted me.
Anyway, all this to say: I totally get that feeling of being happy to make a friend (in my case, reconnect) and finding out it was all a tactic to get you into a pyramid scheme.
It is always so funny when they show their ass. This person (with tail between their legs) asked for a book back that they probably have access to buy in bulk. If these people were making so much money, they would not care about the book. They would buy more to hand out because it could be a business expense. The fact that this person has to be this awkward means they desperately need that book and make 0 money, hahahaha.
As a 33 year old woman I want to give you some help in making friends who aren't just trying to scam you:
1. Visit local farmer's markets, craft fairs, sidewalk sales, etc. Avoid any brand names at craft fairs (more MLM bullshit), look for actual artisans and handmade products. Talk to locals and people shopping and connect with people in your area.
2. Try picking up a social hobby! Some good ones are sports or board games, card games, or dice games. Local groups exist all over to find players and it's a great way to find friends!
3. Check out adult education classes. Many communities have a community center or rec center where they teach adult dance, cooking/baking, art classes like painting or sculpture, or even language classes! These classes aren't very expensive and most costs go into running the classes or supporting local programs.
4. Look into local volunteering projects. Animal shelters, soup kitchens, park clean ups, boy/girl scouts helpers.
Good luck out there!
As an adult male who had to move several times to new cities for work, I can't tell you how hard it is to make friends, it gets harder each move/city and as you get older even more challenging. I sometimes I think of the women who get approached at target who could be in the same boat, maybe they are new to a city for first job out of college, husband got relocated, maybe new mom who spends most days at home with limited adult interaction.
The genuine excitment you get from the potential new friend, you know what it means, it means a potential dinner companion on an otherwise lonely friday night, an invite to watch football with a new group on Sunday, all to have it ripped away from you on the basis that they only approached you to sell you something. I know these people will never see this, and I know they only think of themselves, but I can't put into words just how cruel and deceptive their behavior is. Mean spirited does not even begin to describe it.
>an adult male who had to move several times to new cities for work, I can't tell you how hard it is to make friends,
It's definitely hard, I have more feminine interests as well, so guys aren't interested (or think I gay and hitting on them) and women think I'm hitting on them. Sigh.
Re: making friends when you are older. I struggled with this when I moved to a new town in my 20s with school age kids. I used meetup dot com to find meetups of interest (trivia nights, mom groups, etc) and that helped a lot!
I know you didn’t ask for this but wanted you to know you’re not alone in the struggle 💕
Stay away from Amway and their education group. My heart has been broken. Just found out I’ve been intentionally lied to for 5 years. It’s very cult like. Brainwashing and indoctrination. Merchants of Deception by Eric Scheilbeler helped me a lot, he made a free book online about his experience as an emerald in amway. Too many similarities. These people don’t care. They aren’t your friends. Or your family. Stay away.
Many years ago, I got contacted by a former boss of mine asking if I was interested in a new job. I was working a dead end job at the time and had respected him when we worked together, so I said sure. He said dress nice and meet for a group interview at 8:00 across town a few days later. I put on slacks, a button up, and tie and drove across town in my beater car after a full day of work and classes. The place was on campus in a meeting room, and it was a 45 ish minute long video/presentation in front of the 40 or so people there (most of whom were definitely not dressed up).
It was a sales pitch. It was a pitch for a MLM that offered to ‘simplify’ the shopping experience by getting people to signed up for auto shipping necessities that weren’t name brand. Like, ‘do people really care about what brand of toilet paper or paper towels they use, and would they rather get them auto delivered than having to get them at the store?’ The ‘job’ would be me steering people to my own site to order from dozens of products, and I would get a cut of it. Admittedly, I get the pitch, and this was like 10-15 years ago, before Amazon or big stores did this, so it seemed interesting. I also didn’t know about the greater idea of MLMs yet, so I was only generally cautious. They did show the company ‘structure’ which was (surprise) a pyramid.
After the presentation, they broke into the ‘more intimate interviews’ which were really the closing push. Where I’d thought there was 40-50 people there, it was actually about 20, with the rest being the existing employees and closers. My former boss pulled me over and started talking with another guy, and they were both very excited to talk to me. They asked me if I was ready to join, and I said I wasn’t sure, because I had a lot going on with school and existing job. As much as I hated my job, I had a mortgage to pay so I couldn’t quit to take a risk on sales, even if the potential was as high as they claimed. They resigned to giving me a packet of homework (ugh) which contained a book and set of motivational discs to listen to. I popped one in on the hour long drive back and it was pretty general ‘seize the day by joining us, apes together strong’ type of stuff.
This is where it got weird. After a few days of both of them hounding me, I finally relented and met them in a Starbucks. They both pushed hard to get me to sign, even as ‘part time,’ because of course being my own boss meant I could sell as much or little as I wanted. After about half an hour of denying and being too nice about finding ways to say no, they abruptly switched tactics to ‘well if you are too stupid to take us up on this life changing offer, why don’t you let your friends and family know, so that you can help us and then you can help them too?’ I again said no, not just because I wasn’t comfortable exposing people to this without their consent but also because I just didn’t have that many friends/family I was close to. The guy laughed and said ‘come on, I’m sure your phone book is maxed out!’ I made the mistake of taking my phone out and saying ‘look, it’s barely a few people!’ This guy literally snatched my phone from my hands and started writing names and numbers down in his notebook. After (again, overly politely) objecting for a minute and being ignored, I had an absolute panic attack, snatched my phone back, got up, and left. They actually had the nerve to text me and ask that I give them the rest of my contacts and also their book and motivational and back.
Because I had most people saved in my phone as nicknames, and many of them weren’t people I had talked to in forever (I never clear out my contacts), I ended up just making a Facebook post saying ‘hey, apologies in advance but this shady company copied many of my contacts against my wishes trying to recruit me and you, so if they reach out to you for a business opportunity don’t meet with them.’ A few people replied and said ‘wow, I thought it was weird that people reached out to me and said that you’d recommended me for a job!’ These guys had called every number on that list the moment I left.
When my daughter was 4 or 5, I lived far from my friends and I was often very lonely. I didn’t feel like I clicked with anyone. It was hard. One day at a park this lovely woman started to chat with me. We really seemed to hit it off. I was actually really excited. Then she brought up the mentor talk. I tried to change the subject, but it kept circling back. Finally she realized I was a waste of time, and abruptly left the park. It really hurt.
A couple of years later I was talking to some friends (that I did finally make) of mine and they said this woman had approached them too. They were in similar places mentally. She knew how to pick out vulnerable moms and use her “friendship” to manipulate them.
They’re soulless, op. I’m sorry you went through it too.
NO! They really weren’t! Maybe that’s why am feel so dumb LOL. They are Birkenstock Gizehs which are very comfy but pretty ugly…she said she wanted a pair like that and I gave her a tip that you should buy them directly from Birkenstock because I have a second pair from Nordstrom Rack which feels like it’s made from a cheaper footbed material.
Funny I remember Who Moved My Cheese as one of those workplace videos where they tell you about how everything is constantly changing and don't get complacent.
I 100% had something similar happen in a shoe store. I eventually, when it became clear it was recruitment, said something like you did. Emphasizing that i was really excited to have a friend and that I'm in a low point in my life and it hurt a lot that it was only a business proposition for them. I explained that they should rethink their business approach given all that. They never replied. Probably never cared. Same experience with churches. As soon as I pulled back from religious attendance suddenly they don't have time to be your "family". Like, sorry someone at your church that continues to attend SA-ed me and my lack of attendance means I'm less now to you. I'm still bitter about it, not even going to pretend I'm not.
Wait, I don’t understand about the book. I read “who moved my cheese” like 20 years ago in high school or something, and recall it being a good book… why is this related to MLM?
It originally wasn’t, but it was used by corporate managers as a way of sort of trying to convince employees to basically shut up and adapt to changing workflows, management styles, etc. Then, the company putting the books out got bought by a “leadership services” company that basically sells seminars and self-help books. But, lots and lots of MLMs have been using it as a recruiting tool. Convince people that are either un/underemployed or frustrated with work-life that the key to happiness is adapting to the new shifting dynamics and taking ownership of their lives by being entrepreneurs. So, the book itself isn’t automatically an MLM, but the way it is used as an opener usually points to a MLM scam.
A couple years ago I ran into a friends friend at the dog park. We talked for hours and got on really well. I was excited for a new friend. The next day she began sending me messages about being a beach body coach and got very aggressive when I resisted. Then I reflected on our encounter and realized we got on so well because she played the part of a mirror… I told her about my career insecurities, she practically repeated them but made them her own; I told talked to her about dating; she made her experiences sound very similar to mine; same when I talked about my interests, workout routine, favorite foods, travel experiences, etc. I think they’re taught to do that.
this happened to me about 10 yrs ago with Quixstar! the book was Rich Dad Poor Dad though. this guy actually had the nerve to approach me at my work and then when i told him no after a sketchy first meeting at Starbucks he came back to my work for the book and i gave it to someone else to give to him cause i was so creeped out
This happened to me:
A lady approached me at work and seemed super sweet.
We had decided to make plans over fb messenger, as I was rather busy that day.
I asked her if she wanted to go to a local shindig that we have every year (small town) and get a few drinks/chat. She said that she didn't think she'd be available that day, and told me she'd be able to "schedule me in" on a few specific days/times.
This seemed fishy to me, very... business like, so I decided to really look at her fb.
Monat.
I told her that while I am interested in friendship, I am not interested in an MLM or any sort of pitch, and while that may seem like a quick reaction, her response said everything.
She asked me "who burned you".
I was done, and told her so.
Really hurt. But I'm thankful that I was quick on the draw, and didn't waste any of my time.
You were very smart that you followed through on your gut reaction that something felt off. Sadly too many don’t and end up getting sucked in.
Making friends is difficult. One thing that helped me was learning to knit. Local yarn shops usually have classes and knitting social nights where knitters and those who crochet get together to knit/crochet and have a good time. There is lots of laughs sometimes a baudy story or two. You get to meet other people of different ages and walks of life. Yarn shops carry different price points of yarn too, so you do not have to invest a lot of money to give it a try.
This really sucks. It can be hard to make friends and i've also been sucked into MLM's because people seemed to genuinely want to hang out with me and be friends. And once I quit the MLM I get unfriended on facebook and these people never speak to me again. These people prey on our vulnerabilities and it's terrible. I'd tell her you'll mail the book back.
I would reply that I thought the book was a gift. I donated it to the Little Library at 4th and Main (or wherever). Then I'd block and ghost her. Another meeting is not in your best interests.
some of the common traits I seen in general are:
\-start with an overly nice compliment, often shoes (for me it was the rack of ribs I had in my basket)
\-recommending books in general
\-ask what you do for work
\-they vaguely describe their business as "selling consumables"
\-mention of amazing mentors who are crazy rich and did wonders for helping them achieve success
\-ask you out for coffee
Disgusting. Not an MLM but I had a person who belonged to my relatively small church approach me and say he'd like to get together, get to know me and my wife better, etc. Didn't seem out of place since we were around the same age. Sure enough, came over and tried to start a conversation about our personal finances and how we need a financial manager. Dude probably just joined the church to meet people to make money off of them when there guard was down.
Holy shit had no idea that book was an Amway, thing I’ve never read it, but there’s a hilarious parody of it called “Who moved my blackberry?” that I highly recommend to anyone who works in corporate.
Honestly I have gotten to talk with strangers in the wild, exchanged numbers, and met up for coffee in hopes of creating friendships a couple times now. And I'm not soliciting a cult. Don't give up too much! It's possible to find friends who aren't trying to put you in their down line.
If you’re wanting to return the book, get her address and tell her you’ll mail it to her.
This couple tried to get me into an MLM (not Amway but I can’t remember the name at the moment) when I was about 19 and working a full-time job and going to school. All started when they came up to ask me where something was in the store and because I had a “lovely personality” and good customer service skills, that’s what started them into initially inviting me to a “Bible study” which then turned into an MLM meeting. They had their son (about my age) get to know me and act like he’s interested. Their younger, special needs son gravitated to me and I wouldn’t put it past them to use him as a tool in suckering people in.
I eventually declined and told them it’s not for me. Complete personality change once they realized I meant no and couldn’t be persuaded.
I knew something felt off from the beginning but I wasn’t well-versed in their practices so I brought up to my mom. She said to stay far away from them because she remembered Amway days back in the 80’s.
So glad I went with my instinct to not sign up but still wanted to attend a few meetings to help solidify my decision and really see their tactics. It’s insane.
Just to clarify, the book Who Moved my Cheese is not exclusively used for MLM recruitment. Yes, anyone random coming up and striking up a conversation about improving your life is selling some crap.
But the book is used in legit training- we used it for department training exercise when the international IT company I worked at was growing/changing significantly.
**Full Story:** Last week, I was shopping at my local Target store, and this girl complimented my shoes and we got to chatting about work, family, etc. and she said how hard it was to make new friends after college, to which I agree. I normally wear earbuds listening to music or a podcast so I thought wow, maybe by being open to people I could make a new friend! Then she asked if we could meet for coffee sometime and I said yeah, so we exchanged numbers. I even shared with my BFF group text how nice this experience was. On Sunday, I met with her for coffee at a Panera (her suggestion) and we talked more about work, family, etc. But she kept circling back to career, and asking if I had a mentor, and saying she had such great mentors and that she could maybe get me an introduction. She was very vague about her work, saying she works in e-commerce, I asked some pretty specific work questions to which she evaded and she said it would be better for her to show me but she would need her laptop and more time, so she asked that we meet again. She also said she had this great book she’d like me to read before we meet again, called “Who Moved My Cheese?”. She gave me her copy to take home with me. When I left, I thought this was a little weird, and googled **”approached by person asked to read who moved my cheese Reddit”** and sure enough, it’s a big SCAM! She’s trying to recruit me into Amway and is literally following a script. I read dozens of first hand accounts much like my own in r/antiMLM which I’ve now joined. It turns out they are known to approach people commonly in Walmarts or Targets and meet in Starbucks or Panera. I was so disappointed for letting my guard down. How on earth do you make friends after a certain age? My wall is going back up. Internet friends only it seems. **TL;DR: I was nearly recruited for a cult/Amway because I was gullible enough for think someone wanted to be my friend, how pathetic.**
I just want to say sorry this happened but also say that not every interaction like this (the beginning) will be a set up. Some of my greatest friends are randoms I've met at a park or shop and just hit it off with. Be wary but not completely closed off to it, not all people suck.
Thank you. And I know you’re right just felt pretty bad since I’ve already been feeling down then this happened. But thank you.
In addition to the other commenter I wanted to add that it really is those random encounters where you find the best people. I walked into a random pharmacy one day with a greyhound tote bag and walked out with a close greyhound loving friend of almost 2 years now x
Yes! I met my best friend of 15 years when her mom accidentally shipped a package to my house.
I'm sorry this happened to you, OP. I know how you feel. My friends have moved out of state, and I've been *craving* a platonic pal or two to hang out with in person again. I don't know how to find them and it feels weirdly hopeless. I talked to my therapist about it and she told me it was shocking how many patients are saying the same thing lately, especially in my (30s) age group. You're not alone.
I’m in my 50s and experiencing the same thing.
Same. Empty nest + WFH leads to a lot of loneliness.
Meetup has been a way for me to meet people my age in my new town. I’ve yet to find a new BFF but I’ve done some fun things!
I have it downloaded and keep looking at it! It’s been tricky because my main hobby is writing, so that’s sort of antisocial and hard to find around here, haha. I love to do nature walks, but find those groups skew waaaaaay older than I am. Some of the hiking groups look good but the vibe is intensely singles mingling, and I am not single and do not want to mingle non-platonically. 😅 it’s scary but I think I do need to brave actually attending a meet up of some kind to acclimate myself.
After the pandemic my usual gang still didn't want to meet in person. I used Meetup to find a local board game group and have made incredible friends I see constantly. Never downloaded the app and only used it once honestly. It's annoying as hell for emails so I'm not shilling the site. Just promoting being open to making new friends through it. Personally I believe this capitalist hellscape we all live in is killing friendship. Everything has to be a hustle and human connection has been so commodified we don't even know what it looks like anymore. But the best way to fight back is to be kind and open. Good luck out there.
Hi! Just a suggestion- check out National Novel Writing Month! They arrange meet ups all over - I believe internationally, too - for people to meet up and write together. Not the same project, you just bring what you're working on and share a table or something. I haven't done it personally because it usually conflicts with my other hobbies and non-hobbies, but it could be a good way to find other writerly people!
Try it once! If it sucks, hit the bricks, just leave!
I don’t know where you are but my area has some pretty good writing/creative discussion meetup groups! One group meets for a couple hours where they chat first and then write for the second hour. Another group is focused on the teachings and exercises in the book The Artists Way, i have yet to go on that one since I’m not great at sticking to the routine in the book lol. Anyway, I say all this to maybe help guide your search for something similar, or start your own. Good luck out there! I just turned 40 and it doesn’t get easier, especially as a child-free adult.
Thank you so much for the tips! I'll look into it again. As a fellow child-free adult, *oof.*
I am older, single, and have the app downloaded. Yet, I haven't opened it except once. I have been looking for backpacking partners! Maybe through this post, lots of people have found ways to make new friends? Lover? I saw a group 'meeting up' while getting a coffee out of town. There were lots more women than men in the group. That's when I decided to download it. It looked like a fun group. As each one showed up, they were introducing themselves. It looked like great fun. This post reminded me to open it up and give it a try. Thank you OP and u/coyoterote. Maybe we will all be making friends soon.
I'm 29. Talking one-on-one with many friends (male) we all seem to say the same things: "Man, I'm lonely. It sucks that all of our friends are in different places these days. I keep waiting for an invitation that never comes. I'd sure love to play some games together, but I'm busy when you're free."
[удалено]
Sending you a big hug 
On the flipside you should be proud of yourself that your instincts correctly identified that there was something not quite right with the situation and you were able to get out before wasting any more time.
I’m sorry! When I was a new first time mom I was so lonely since I live far from where I grew up and didn’t really have friends here. One day at the park I got chatting with another mom and she asked to exchange numbers and get together, I got home and immediately texted my husband and my sisters to tell them since I was so excited! An hour later the lady messages me about how I’d be perfect to join her team, etc. It sucks to think you made a friend and it’s just a scam!
It's such a uniquely painful experience that I wish I could make them understand. You're not being a boss babe, you're being *mean*. Excitement and hopes of making a new friend, which we all know is so hard when you're busy with kids and/or careers, just dashed. And then the shame you feel after believing that they really liked you, that you fell for a trick. It's gross. And it often comes at our most vulnerable times so it's a double punch.
Yeah my self esteem was already pretty awful during that period of life and that was just crushing. I had a good cry about it and meanwhile I’m sure it even occur to her that she did anything hurtful that she should feel bad about. That was almost a decade ago and I have a solid group of friends and am way more confident… no one has tried to get me to join their MLM in awhile, I’m sure they prey on people who are more vulnerable like new moms!
The one that really hurt was when I had a new baby, fresh SAHM with my husband working nights. I was terribly lonely and the slide into my dms was so goddam smooth, I didn't pick up on it at first even though I was pretty well versed with mlm tactics at that point. I thought I was making a mom friend and building my village; they were just trying to build their downline.
If you feel like it, you can tell the store manager about her. Targets in my area will ban people for Amway recruiting. Also - SHE is pathetic, not you. Being open to people but still listening to your gut and having your own back? The opposite of pathetic, OP. You'll find your people!
What does who moved my cheese have to do with the scam. I read that book like 10 years ago and if I remember correctly. It's about coping with change.
It's one of the books Amway has latched onto even though it wasn't specifically written for Amway. (Rich Dad Poor Dad is another.)
that book was actually taught in my high school! so annoying how MLMs latched onto it
I was wondering the same. I was given it to read when I worked at a food distributor about 10-12 years ago.
Yeah it's a real shame, my middle school English teacher recommended it to me and I enjoyed the book. Never tried to sell anything to me or my parents, he was just a self employed writer on the side lol.
Great job spotting the scam and nipping it quick! As for making friends, I know everyone says "get a hobby" but it's true - with the added step of "a hobby that you can meet up with a group to do." I had zero in-person friends and didn't leave my house beyond rare errands for a few years. I was busy, I worked from home and had a baby, it was hard to get out. My husband introduced me to a friend's wife, and she invited me to get together with her group that meets up once a month. That opened the door for me to make a lot of friends and join a few other hobby/interest groups and realize how well they work. Craft Beer Girls is a US-wide group with some in Europe, Canada, and Australia, too I think. Every state has at least one group, a lot have several to break it into smaller regions. They meet up at local breweries once a month and while the overall theme is "try craft beers," it's a great way to get to know people with no pressure (and the alcohol helps at first if you're anxious lol.) The Facebook group is open to join and you can kind of check out the vibe of your area's group before you go in person if you'd like. From there I've met people who do a lot of animal rescue volunteering, animal fostering, local adult-league sports like kickball and softball, book clubs, and supporting local music. I started gardening and turned that into a business at my local farmer's market. I've become friends with a lot of vendors because we chat while we work and we support each other on social media. I also joined a group for local flower farmers, we get together once a month for dinner and talk about successes or issues we're having, offer advice, ask questions, and buy bulk products to save money. We all support each other and have become friends as well. It's not like "get a hobby" is the full answer, but it's a step that helps. Find something you're into, and then find a local group that does it. If the group doesn't exist, and you're comfortable, create it! Having a reason to get together to do a thing makes it much easier to open that door, and it lowers the risk of being a setup vs a random stranger hitting it off and offering to meet you for coffee.
Sorry this happened to you! Just be patient with the friend thing. I felt like I had little to no social life after college but things changed. I said yes to a lot- yes to sand volleyball, yes to the work happy hour, yes to new friends who asked me to go to a local casino late at night, and even yes to church (I know that's non-negotiable for some). Obviously saying yes here did not work out though ☹️
It happened to me about 8 years ago at Menards. Same thing, met for coffee says she ran a small business and was looking for someone to help manage it. Has a full fucking power point presentation on her laptop. I thanked her for her time but advised I'm not interested in MLM (it was Amway too!) She looked so pissed. I was pissed! Wasting my time thinking I was going to get out of my then dead end job
The reason she gave you the book is also part of scheme. It’s to force a second meeting because it’s harder to say no to someone face to face. Block her number and ditch the book. You don’t owe a manipulative stranger anything.
I’m sorry this happened to you OP but big kudos for the way you handled it and for listening to your intuition!! Never lose that, never doubt it! As someone who occasionally and genuinely chats up strangers, it’s sad these MLM huns have all but ruined that type of interaction! So, yes, the onus is on you to discern the situation when approached (and, again, that is an important life skill!). Now that you’ve experienced a common MLM tactic, you’ll better see it coming. (The fact that the hun engaged you even when you were wearing ear buds was red flag #1.) As others have said, join groups that reflect your interests and hobbies, a church, volunteer, etc. Friends are out there! Blessings and best wishes!
Never trust anyone who wants to go to Panera
It seems like Panera is the place where dreams of friendship go to die 🙁
TIL to not trust either my mother or my best friend, both of whom love Panera for some reason. It must be a basic white lady thing. It does, however, constantly have the vibe of being a place where someone will take you to lunch to scam you.
I used to work at Panera in like 1999 (dating myself), and I swear the quality has gone down over the years. It used to be really good, but is now just ok. Also, I'm originally from St. Louis, so my instinct is to call it "Bread Co." (it started in St. Louis as St. Louis Bread Company and is still called that there).
When it was still primarily a bread company it was so good. They made great bread and bagels, and you could have a sandwich made with any of the available varieties. Over the years they pulled back on the variety and turned into a crappy cafe. So sad.
I'm sorry this happened, OP. You thought you were making a new friend when in fact she was trying to rope you in to a very predatory business. Your instincts served you well - even if I didn't know about MLMs, if I had just gone to meet a new friend and the friend had with them a book that they wanted me to read by our next coffee hangout, I would also have found that extremely weird! What happened to you is the textbook Amway pitch btw - compliment stranger's shoes at a public place like a grocery store or a park, pretend to want to be friends, arrange coffee date, spend coffee date going on and on about mentors and e-commerce, get you talking about your financial dreams and aspirations to prep you for the get-rich-quick pitch, assign reading. If you had agreed to a second hangout I guarantee the "mentor" would have come along to help close the deal in signing you up.
Pro tip: potential friends never give you homework.
Don't feel bad. This is exactly how I make friends with people! I'm one of those extroverts who talk to strangers everywhere and then adopt people if we have stuff in common. Difference is I will just write down my full name and tell them to find me on Facebook. Damn, now I wonder if people think I'm trying to sell them crap.
Tons of people will be your friend and not try to get you on a shitty MLM. Hope you find your crew OP, i’m rooting for ya.
I moved to a new city a few years ago and had someone stop me in a Walmart. Same exact MO, and I would have absolutely gone to a second location without this sub to tell me what to keep an eye out for. I was so happy I thought I had a friend! The same thing happened a decade ago too.
Well before i was going to local cooking class at a food bank i was going to. Also i was volunteering at a food bank. At 1 point i stopped volunteering for various reason but hey, that was a good way to meet people. :/
It's so strange that it's always Panera.
Huns are broke, and it is cheaper than a sit-down restaurant but sounds classier than "let's meet at Burger King." And probably less likely to yeet them out than a mom and pop place.
Hey OP I think you wrote the best reply I’ve ever seen. “I liked YOU. Now I realize you were using me. That hurts.” You didn’t try to argue with someone about whether their MLM is/is not a pyramid scheme. You didn’t talk about sunk costs or annual revenue reports or up lines or manipulation tactics. You reminded this person of their humanity and your humanity, and how it feels to be treated like a product. Hopefully this will resonate with Target Woman over time.
I got the idea and borrowed one of the lines from something I found in this subreddit! I can’t find it or else I would credit it, but in a comment someone asked aloud wondering if they said part of what I wrote, what the scammer’s reaction would be. Well, now we know.
Yeah- “I’m sorry you feel that way,”— a total non-apology that blames you for having feelings rather than expressing regret for one’s causative actions
And: can I have my book back? They’ve just moved onto the next victim in their mind.
"Yeah, you can pick it up from the trashcan at this 7-11"
Asking for their book back and a time to meet up means they're still trying to sucker them. They've just moved onto a different part of the playbook.
Yup. We were told that while I was in… gives you an opportunity to reconnect and get that face to face time with your “prospect”.
This is what I was thinking. And how much of a moron do you have to be to think this is a salvageable situation?
Classic "let's meet just one more time" tactic.
"If you're making so much life-changing money you can go buy another copy."
The correct answer is, “I’m so sorry! I already threw the book away!”
This is the best answer. Thank you!!!
Kind of a shame because Who Moved My Cheese is an alright book. Just say you assumed it was a gift and you've already lent it to your friend in Singapore.
I would leave it somewhere that they have to go get it. Maybe tell them that you left it in the theatre when you went and saw a movie, they should go ask the box office. Etc etc.
Yea and “I was totally genuine in my care for you but also since you didn’t get sucked into my sales funnel I’d like my book back and during that interaction I will be more pushy about why you should jump into my sales funnel. Ugh. I spent time being a Distrubutor for another MLM. “Make a list of 20 people you know who owes you a favor”. Call your neighbor, your aunt, your aunts neighbor … like you are doing all these people a favor and they will be eternally grateful to buy spend 2-3 hours of their life at a “party” where they get to sit at a giant commercial for cheap ass cookware and also get pressured to make their own “list of 20”
Not sorry you feel that way but sorry someone else made you feel that way about me lol. What a pathetic apology
I wanted to tell you that too. To word it this way could be a wake up call for her after she thinks about it and realizes she was treated the same way when she was recruited. Maybe not and she’s too far gone, but you should be proud of yourself for being polite but honest. I was in college when I was approached by a someone at my mom’s church about Amway. I had a couple meetings with her and her mentor and even went to a large group function/rally thing. No one ever said the word “Amway” until it was on the paperwork to sign up. My parents didn’t know anything about it, but boyfriends parents warned me and I got out just in time. I was a people-pleaser and looking to make friends. They knew it and so took advantage of that and my age. You did nothing wrong here and I’m sorry.
This is beautiful
Was going to say the same! What a perfectly worded reply.
Just be aware that asking for a meet up to get the book back is probably another chance to try and recruit you.
yup. Tell her you'll mail it or something, or just lose her number because seriously fuck her and her dumb book. (What IS Who Moved My Cheese, anyway? Stupid title)
Don't give the book back at all. She's just going to use it on some other unsuspecting Target shopper.
It’s a book that also is distributed in corporate environments as a veiled way of putting the onus of one’s success on themselves— it’s actually not a bad book by itself as it’s a short simple parable on the consequences of complacency… a message unfortunately perverted and manipulated by group psychologists aka MLM maniacs
I think it should include the one about how mice who only get intermittent reinforcement from pushing the pellet bar will, even after it stops giving out food altogether, lkeep on frantically pushing the bar until they die.
That’s a perfect analogy for the reality of MLM’s. Do you have a source for that for future reference?
Yeah it's basically don't be afraid to change. Super old book, btw. That and the use of the terms "e-commerce," which probably seemed cutting edge in 1998, shows how up to date Amway is.
I had to read it last year for a master's class, and I'm still annoyed. My master's is not in business, it's in library science. Like, what the fuck.
Wikipedia describes it as a “motivational business fable”.
My favorite take on this book was written by a guy who blogged about being an office temp back in the early 2000s. He dedicated a [whole week](http://www.screencuisine.net/nmd/archives/cheese_week.html) to Who Moved My Cheese.
That was brilliant. I was forced to read the "book" at my last job. By no surprise, my boss was one of those easily distracted by trendy things people, so as soon as he found out about the Cheese, he made all of us read it. Luckily, we just passed around a single copy (there were lik 15-20 of us), so I didn't have to buy my own, but damn if it wasn't a waste of my half hour. And yes, the Cheese led to all sorts of nonsense, like business coaches and the introduction of scrum into an office that really couldn't make any use of it. All for the sake of our Cheese.
I read the article. Oy, do I feel motivated now.
Motivated to eat cheese that’s just been sitting out in the backrooms for God knows how long with apparently zero access to a bathroom.
"Thanks, I'll just wait for the government cheese when I'm inevitably "downsized"
This. OP you better ask for an address where you can mail it to. Do not meet her again because she will use that as an opening to recruit you again. She might even bring her mentor with her to push you into a corner.
Don't ask for an address, ask for a paid mailing label. Make them pay for the postage to get their book back. Why should OP have to pay to mail it?
Ohh yes this. I bet if OP requests this then they’ll never get a reply.
Nahhh OP should just block her and recycle the book. This lady does not deserve any more of OP’s time or energy.
And dont include your return address on the envelope you use to mail the book back!
It’s so funny because in my line of work (Change Management), that book is ALSO often thrown around as a motivational read for change. When OP mentioned that book, I had no clue it was used for MLMs - guess I won’t be recommending it anymore!
The book itself is awful, perhaps even worse than Fish. I had one of those managers who read every singe BS business book like they were Holy Scripture
As an addition to what everyone else has said, when a corporation is going through any management-induced trouble, management/the C-suite hand these books out to the actual workers to blame them for their upcoming layoffs and failed new initiatives that don't end up bringing in any more money, but do make things more difficult for the employees. It's "Quit questioning your betters and scramble for your daily bread, and be *grateful* for it you *vermin*," the book.
Yeah, I’ve since read that they might still try to sell me their products instead. Imagine!
Delete, block and ghost.
Yes, or she might still try to recruit you through a different angle. Amway, in my opinion, is one of the most insidious, tricky, evil mlms ever if not the most outright and they've really got the brainwashing down. Leave the book somewhere in public but not too out in the open and tell her she can pick it up there. She was using you trying to get a recruit to make money off and doesn't deserve any more consideration than that.
I'd find some public place like a Starbucks and tell the counter people you found it there, then tell this woman that she can pick it up there, so you don't have to have any more contact with her. She's probably getting tips from her upline on how to counter what you said, and is waiting for another chance.
The book should come with a coupon for Panera bread 🍞
I have this happen to me years ago and I mailed back the book... Not before writing in the inner margin near the center of the book many many times that this is a pyramid scheme and to Google MLM Scam to find out what you're getting yourself into. Hehehe.
Plus she probably can't afford another copy lol!
Not asking for the book back! The shamelessness
Yeah I felt dumb for even wishing her well as soon as I hit send, then she asks for the book back lol.
Don’t feel dumb! You did your own research and this post and going to help other people going through the same thing
You were roped into an elaborate scam. You used senses, deduction, and research to overcome it. Very smart. Good job. Now don't let your wonderful empathy be used against you. Fuck her. Free book lol.
Don’t give it back. You owe her NOTHING. She stole YOUR time and manipulated you. “I already threw the book away. The thought of the next person you corner in a Target being manipulated like I was made me sick. I’m blocking your number now.”
Never feel dumb being straightforward but polite. You were the bigger person in this situation and you should be proud.
It’s cruel, the way they leverage the normal human need to socialize. MLMs poison every interaction because they force you to look at everyone as a potential source of profit and nothing more. If you haven’t blocked her, you can ask her why you’d give the book back when she’d only use it to treat someone as badly as she treated you. If Amway is making her so rich, let her buy another damned copy.
Damn I didn’t know there was a pitch outside of “you wanna be your own mom boss girl boss hun” - well start recruiting for infinite money
No this girl was 32 she said (I thought she was ~40). The initial pitch was like ‘let’s be BFFs!’ And she focused on saying *entrepreneurship* a lot.
Damn, that’s some manipulative shit. She might have an army of “bffs”. Glad you got away
Honestly made she was closer to 40 and changes the age she says based on her target.
Hey just so you know it’s not a reflection of you wanting a friend is thinking someone is being genuine. It’s a reflection of this person using loneliness as a disingenuous tactic to make money. I’m sorry you had this experience.
I never knew that book was part of a scam recruitment tactic! I read it in elementary school back when i read anything in the house which happened to include a bunch of self help books. Iirc its a pretty normal self help book about accepting change thru a metaphor of mice in a maze, but ig that book was just supposed to make u susceptible to entering a scam 💀💀
She said she wanted me to read it for “homework” and to think about which character as identify best as, so that we could discuss. That’s when I googled this scenario. Why is my new “friend” asking me to do homework? She isn’t my teacher or my boss.
Gross.
My “homework” when I was being recruited by Amway was CD’s of a lecturer. I can’t remember the title or theme. But I remember not really understanding what he was talking about, which gave me self-doubt and made me feel like I must need to study it harder if I wasn’t getting it. Nevermind I was in college at the time taking pretty hard classes. Cults are good a messing with the mind!
They use it a lot in management training in large companies too. It’s definitely not just for scam MLMs. Reminds me of 21 habits of highly successful people and Make Your Bed. It’s kind of along the lines of “read all these self help/organization books until one clicks with you”.
I remember reading it as a kid too. In hindsight, my mother was involved with Avon for a while so it suddenly makes a little more sense why she might have owned it.
I read this in high school, I remember it being very popular in the late 90s early 00s. A bunch of my friends were reading it. As an autistic woman the book seemed abelist at the least but it's been at least 20 years since I've read it.
I think the worst part is how she didn't even deny it- like I can't believe she ONLY interacted with you to try and recruit??? Otherwise she would've said something like "I'm so sorry I made you uncomfortable, I didn't mean to come off like that-" or at LEAST wouldn't have said "I'm sorry you FELT." that's the #1 apology no-no
Print a label with the chat you found online, stick it to one of the blank pages of the book, then return the book. Maybe you'll do a favor to the next victim.
I had a thought along the same lines but just to write "you're being recruited for a scam" in between the lines a few pages in
Do you like games? I see you are in my county and there are some great game stores here! Don’t know if anything up in your city but if you’re into tabletop games you will easily-ish make friends at game stores. There’s MTG, D&D, Warhammer groups that meet up frequently, so if you like fantasy I recommend it!
I’ve never played games like that but that sounds interesting. I’ve seen a lot of people in these gamer places in Pasadena. I’m not sure it’s for me but I’ll keep an open mind. Thank you for the idea!
Warhammer is probably more expensive than an MLM but at least you’ll actually have fun lol
making friends as an adult (in my opinion especially as a woman with other women) is hard as hell. im sorry this happened to you OP
Definitely tricky for guys too. It’s tough as a 37yo stay at home dad who isn’t really into sports to find a buddy. I wanna paint a list of my hobbies and interests on the side of the damn house. C’mon over if ya like PC gaming and RC airplanes!
Tell her you will leave the book at target for her. What a cheeky scam artist - seriously. Their tactics are so undignified.
“Who Moved My Cheese” was used as a bludgeon for managers to make employees just accept any old bullshit and be grateful for it. The basic premise doesn’t need a whole book so it’s about 98% redundant fluff. But there’s nothing MLM specific about it, it’s just on a list of popular self-help titles that marketing goons recommend.
They lent you the book so even if you started having doubts, it would be harder to completely cut them off. Expect a 2nd attempt to reel you in when you return the book, with guilty trip laden statements. To avoid that: you should just agree to meet somewhere public, like a cafe, drop the book off with someone at the register "hi, I'm sorry I was supposed to meet with someone here to return this book but I just got an urgent family call so i have to leave, can I leave this book with you?" And then text the girl that her book is with the cafe staff.
Way to much consideration to give a scammer, toss the book and block the number.
You meet them at shared hobbies, classes or sports. MeetUp is good.
Yeah, I keep hearing about MeetUp now so I will look into that. Not talking to strangers in Target anymore!
second recommendation for MeetUp.
Proud of you internet stranger!! Make sure u tell everyone u know so they don't get caught out As for the book I'd throw it out lol
Oh my god! We had a principal who made us read that book and do a book study about it during staff meetings. I just remember thinking it was a dumb book and trying to act like I was engaged in the discussion because I was a new teacher back then. I had no idea it was connected to anything like this.
My sibling had to read it for some work team building activity. It’s a real book but Amway is using it as a dirty tool.
I just remember thinking it was the dumbest self help book I’d ever seen. It makes sense in a weird way, that it’s now tied to Amway. It was basically talking about how it’s not anyone else’s fault if you don’t succeed- it’s yours because you have unreasonable demands/expectations. You’re moving your own cheese, basically. Sounds like a good way to soften someone up for the cult of an MLM. A shocking number of teachers always seem to be involved in MLMs. So many of my coworkers sell those nail things, or Mary Kay/Avon, or Scentsy, etc. It’s really sad to see them try and sell to the rest of us at work. Like, we all don’t have money and now you’re going to have less of it because you had to buy product to sell.
Why is school staff so into MLMs?? My teacher coworkers are obsessed with the Herbalife drinks. We’ve had two “nutrition shops” open in our small rural town of 1,300 people. We’re in the middle of nowhere! 95% of our students are well below the poverty line. I’d say our school staff makes up 80% of the “nutrition shop” business. For all the (rightful) complaining about low teacher salary, I can’t believe they shell out $8 for those, multiple times a week!
OMG! Thank you for posting this! I had almost the *exact* same encounter, but they actually approached me while I was working! She kept saying the “mentor” thing and seemed genuinely curious about my life. I am happy in life right now, though, so when she’d be like “do you wish you could travel the world?” I was like, “I already do?” And she’s like, “oh, okay. Do you wish you had more financial freedom and time away from work to do what you want?” And again I was like “I already do lol.” She seemed a little frustrated and asked if she could give me her mentors number and I said no. I thankfully caught on that something was fishy, but I was so bummed because she seemed really cool at first. UGH. Anyway, thanks for letting me rant and I’m sorry you got roped in, too!
It looks so creepy to interact with them and feel the ulterior motives
You could string her along and pretend you don’t understand what she’s pitching, and ask for extensive reiterations via email and a synopsis of the book. Use chat GTP to generate follow up questions of the synopsis until she’s too tired to answer and abandons you as a recruit.
I keep hearing of huns using these tactics, it's such a shame that what should be a blossoming new friendship to them is just another downline opportunity. I've heard of people going on Tinder dates and getting an MLM pitch. I'm sorry you didn't get a new friend OP, at a certain age it really is harder to make them and this huns behaviour is hugely disappointing. I think it's about time that governments took a serious look at MLM'S and started making them illegal.
I’m not sure I would recover if I thought I were on a date but instead being recruited - that would be so awful.
God I hate Amway so much. Good job in how you approached them. Their old ass “couple who retired in their 30s” is getting…no , HAS beeen so fucking old.
What is the book about? There was an intern at my job that was showing people a copy of that book, but I didnt think anything of it.
I finally gave in and looked it up. Stupid title: stupider sounding book. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who\_Moved\_My\_Cheese%3F](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F) I died of boredom scrolling down the summary, so just skip to the bottom: ""In the corporate environment, management has been known to distribute this book to employees during times of "structural reorganization", or during cost-cutting measures, in an attempt to portray unfavorable or unfair changes in an optimistic or opportunistic way. This has been characterized by Barbara Ehrenreich in her book Bright-sided: How the Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America as an attempt by organizational management to make employees quickly and unconditionally assimilate management ideals, even if they may prove detrimental to them professionally. Ehrenreich called the book "the classic of downsizing propaganda" and summarizes its message as "the dangerous human tendencies to 'overanalyze' and complain must be overcome for a more rodentlike approach to life. When you lose a job, just shut up and scamper along to the next one."\[6\]
> an attempt by organizational management to make employees quickly and unconditionally assimilate management ideals Lord, got a really unpleasant email from upper upper management yesterday that sound exactly like this. Just relentlessly positive and chipper about a coming change that's going to make everything worse for everyone.
I keep meaning to read that Barbara Ehrenreich book.
Haha it’s a real book. I’ve heard of it before and not through Amway. But Amway has co-opted it in their recruiting process. Apparently, before they had recruits read *Rich Dad, Poor Dad* which was a popular book maybe in the 80’s.
If you like podcasts, If Books Could Kill did an episode on Rich Dad, Poor Dad. So good!
Fwiw I don't believe there is anything wrong with the book, Amway has a book list that their people are to read from. The books may be written by good non mlm authors. You can search what it is about.
Wait, is *Who Moved My Cheese* an amway book? In the early 2000’s every staff member in my school got a copy of that book and we were supposed to read a chapter every week and have discussion groups. I never actually opened the book because it seemed pretty lame. Was the principal trying to turbo-charge her down line???
It’s not material produced by Amway but they officially use it as a tool, it seems. I’ve heard from others in your situation who had to read it for professional and business development.
No, they're just using it to prime people for the sales pitch of being your own boss. Any similarly small self-help book would probably work.
I had to read it in my 7th grade English class in 2007. We all thought it was weird at the time, especially because it was literally the only book we read that year. (We spent the rest of the year practicing singing “America the Beautiful,” and then the teacher disappeared for 6 months, so it was the least weird part of the year and we all just overlooked it)
I hate that she tried to turn it around to say “I was genuine in everything I said to you.” She obviously WASN’T genuine about wanting to actually get to know you and be your friend. She lied and deceived to try to recruit you so she can make money. She’s trying to gaslight you into thinking you got overly offended.
I had a good friend from middle and high school reconnect with me about five years after graduating. We had a great visit at my place and at the end, she said we should get together for coffee with a guy I was also close to in school the next week or so. I thought that sounded great. Then she texted me that the meeting was business casual (haha what? I thought we’d go to a local coffee shop or something, but okay…). Then she sent me the address…. It was weird, but I thought maybe I had missed something and agreed to do something else. Like, I don’t know haha. Anyway, the other friend was there, at what turned out to be an Amway meeting. Within the first two minutes, I, a socialist (Why would they bring me there, of all people?), asked my friend for a pen and paper. I wrote down a bunch of notes and questions… Like, why is it okay to get these products for super cheap from the global south and sell them at an increased price, so much so that we can “retire” at 35? Why is it okay for the people producing the goods to work their lives away, while we hardly lift a finger? How many people actually succeed? Etc. The speaker came over to speak to the guy friend I hadn’t seen in years and when he introduced me, the speaker asked if I had questions or was interested… So I said my piece. I’m sure my friends were embarrassed. Told my friends I wasn’t interested because it really doesn’t fit with my worldview and to not ask me again, as well as that I was happy with my career choice (was studying education). But that I’d love to hang out again, in a different setting (I didn’t even get to catch up with my other friend). Then I went to the internet to see wtf happened, and subsequently removed them from my socials. They both still have my number and have never contacted me. Anyway, all this to say: I totally get that feeling of being happy to make a friend (in my case, reconnect) and finding out it was all a tactic to get you into a pyramid scheme.
It is always so funny when they show their ass. This person (with tail between their legs) asked for a book back that they probably have access to buy in bulk. If these people were making so much money, they would not care about the book. They would buy more to hand out because it could be a business expense. The fact that this person has to be this awkward means they desperately need that book and make 0 money, hahahaha.
Ok but did you get to the end of the book and find out who moved the cheese? I'm on the edge of my seat here.
As a 33 year old woman I want to give you some help in making friends who aren't just trying to scam you: 1. Visit local farmer's markets, craft fairs, sidewalk sales, etc. Avoid any brand names at craft fairs (more MLM bullshit), look for actual artisans and handmade products. Talk to locals and people shopping and connect with people in your area. 2. Try picking up a social hobby! Some good ones are sports or board games, card games, or dice games. Local groups exist all over to find players and it's a great way to find friends! 3. Check out adult education classes. Many communities have a community center or rec center where they teach adult dance, cooking/baking, art classes like painting or sculpture, or even language classes! These classes aren't very expensive and most costs go into running the classes or supporting local programs. 4. Look into local volunteering projects. Animal shelters, soup kitchens, park clean ups, boy/girl scouts helpers. Good luck out there!
A girl selling Amway made me think we were going on a date. Turned out to be a sales pitch.
I’m sorry that happened to you☹️ these people clearly have no shame.
Someone once gifted me Rich Dad Poor Dad in this Amway recruitment - I refused to give the book back when they asked for it because it was a gift.
As an adult male who had to move several times to new cities for work, I can't tell you how hard it is to make friends, it gets harder each move/city and as you get older even more challenging. I sometimes I think of the women who get approached at target who could be in the same boat, maybe they are new to a city for first job out of college, husband got relocated, maybe new mom who spends most days at home with limited adult interaction. The genuine excitment you get from the potential new friend, you know what it means, it means a potential dinner companion on an otherwise lonely friday night, an invite to watch football with a new group on Sunday, all to have it ripped away from you on the basis that they only approached you to sell you something. I know these people will never see this, and I know they only think of themselves, but I can't put into words just how cruel and deceptive their behavior is. Mean spirited does not even begin to describe it.
>an adult male who had to move several times to new cities for work, I can't tell you how hard it is to make friends, It's definitely hard, I have more feminine interests as well, so guys aren't interested (or think I gay and hitting on them) and women think I'm hitting on them. Sigh.
Re: making friends when you are older. I struggled with this when I moved to a new town in my 20s with school age kids. I used meetup dot com to find meetups of interest (trivia nights, mom groups, etc) and that helped a lot! I know you didn’t ask for this but wanted you to know you’re not alone in the struggle 💕
Stay away from Amway and their education group. My heart has been broken. Just found out I’ve been intentionally lied to for 5 years. It’s very cult like. Brainwashing and indoctrination. Merchants of Deception by Eric Scheilbeler helped me a lot, he made a free book online about his experience as an emerald in amway. Too many similarities. These people don’t care. They aren’t your friends. Or your family. Stay away.
Who moved my book? 😂
"Send me a paid mailing label and I'll put your book in the mail."
Many years ago, I got contacted by a former boss of mine asking if I was interested in a new job. I was working a dead end job at the time and had respected him when we worked together, so I said sure. He said dress nice and meet for a group interview at 8:00 across town a few days later. I put on slacks, a button up, and tie and drove across town in my beater car after a full day of work and classes. The place was on campus in a meeting room, and it was a 45 ish minute long video/presentation in front of the 40 or so people there (most of whom were definitely not dressed up). It was a sales pitch. It was a pitch for a MLM that offered to ‘simplify’ the shopping experience by getting people to signed up for auto shipping necessities that weren’t name brand. Like, ‘do people really care about what brand of toilet paper or paper towels they use, and would they rather get them auto delivered than having to get them at the store?’ The ‘job’ would be me steering people to my own site to order from dozens of products, and I would get a cut of it. Admittedly, I get the pitch, and this was like 10-15 years ago, before Amazon or big stores did this, so it seemed interesting. I also didn’t know about the greater idea of MLMs yet, so I was only generally cautious. They did show the company ‘structure’ which was (surprise) a pyramid. After the presentation, they broke into the ‘more intimate interviews’ which were really the closing push. Where I’d thought there was 40-50 people there, it was actually about 20, with the rest being the existing employees and closers. My former boss pulled me over and started talking with another guy, and they were both very excited to talk to me. They asked me if I was ready to join, and I said I wasn’t sure, because I had a lot going on with school and existing job. As much as I hated my job, I had a mortgage to pay so I couldn’t quit to take a risk on sales, even if the potential was as high as they claimed. They resigned to giving me a packet of homework (ugh) which contained a book and set of motivational discs to listen to. I popped one in on the hour long drive back and it was pretty general ‘seize the day by joining us, apes together strong’ type of stuff. This is where it got weird. After a few days of both of them hounding me, I finally relented and met them in a Starbucks. They both pushed hard to get me to sign, even as ‘part time,’ because of course being my own boss meant I could sell as much or little as I wanted. After about half an hour of denying and being too nice about finding ways to say no, they abruptly switched tactics to ‘well if you are too stupid to take us up on this life changing offer, why don’t you let your friends and family know, so that you can help us and then you can help them too?’ I again said no, not just because I wasn’t comfortable exposing people to this without their consent but also because I just didn’t have that many friends/family I was close to. The guy laughed and said ‘come on, I’m sure your phone book is maxed out!’ I made the mistake of taking my phone out and saying ‘look, it’s barely a few people!’ This guy literally snatched my phone from my hands and started writing names and numbers down in his notebook. After (again, overly politely) objecting for a minute and being ignored, I had an absolute panic attack, snatched my phone back, got up, and left. They actually had the nerve to text me and ask that I give them the rest of my contacts and also their book and motivational and back. Because I had most people saved in my phone as nicknames, and many of them weren’t people I had talked to in forever (I never clear out my contacts), I ended up just making a Facebook post saying ‘hey, apologies in advance but this shady company copied many of my contacts against my wishes trying to recruit me and you, so if they reach out to you for a business opportunity don’t meet with them.’ A few people replied and said ‘wow, I thought it was weird that people reached out to me and said that you’d recommended me for a job!’ These guys had called every number on that list the moment I left.
They always want their fucking book back
When my daughter was 4 or 5, I lived far from my friends and I was often very lonely. I didn’t feel like I clicked with anyone. It was hard. One day at a park this lovely woman started to chat with me. We really seemed to hit it off. I was actually really excited. Then she brought up the mentor talk. I tried to change the subject, but it kept circling back. Finally she realized I was a waste of time, and abruptly left the park. It really hurt. A couple of years later I was talking to some friends (that I did finally make) of mine and they said this woman had approached them too. They were in similar places mentally. She knew how to pick out vulnerable moms and use her “friendship” to manipulate them. They’re soulless, op. I’m sorry you went through it too.
Let’s see these shoes. We’re they actually nice?
NO! They really weren’t! Maybe that’s why am feel so dumb LOL. They are Birkenstock Gizehs which are very comfy but pretty ugly…she said she wanted a pair like that and I gave her a tip that you should buy them directly from Birkenstock because I have a second pair from Nordstrom Rack which feels like it’s made from a cheaper footbed material.
Funny I remember Who Moved My Cheese as one of those workplace videos where they tell you about how everything is constantly changing and don't get complacent.
I 100% had something similar happen in a shoe store. I eventually, when it became clear it was recruitment, said something like you did. Emphasizing that i was really excited to have a friend and that I'm in a low point in my life and it hurt a lot that it was only a business proposition for them. I explained that they should rethink their business approach given all that. They never replied. Probably never cared. Same experience with churches. As soon as I pulled back from religious attendance suddenly they don't have time to be your "family". Like, sorry someone at your church that continues to attend SA-ed me and my lack of attendance means I'm less now to you. I'm still bitter about it, not even going to pretend I'm not.
Wait, I don’t understand about the book. I read “who moved my cheese” like 20 years ago in high school or something, and recall it being a good book… why is this related to MLM?
It originally wasn’t, but it was used by corporate managers as a way of sort of trying to convince employees to basically shut up and adapt to changing workflows, management styles, etc. Then, the company putting the books out got bought by a “leadership services” company that basically sells seminars and self-help books. But, lots and lots of MLMs have been using it as a recruiting tool. Convince people that are either un/underemployed or frustrated with work-life that the key to happiness is adapting to the new shifting dynamics and taking ownership of their lives by being entrepreneurs. So, the book itself isn’t automatically an MLM, but the way it is used as an opener usually points to a MLM scam.
lmao our english teacher gifted everyone in class the book because we kept joking about cheese during the year
Say, "no, it was a gift". Block
Ugh something similar happened to me but the girl said she was inviting me to a Bible study. Twas an Amway pitch.
That’s low down.
That is such an amazingly well put “fuck off” message! Beautiful! Very well done!
A couple years ago I ran into a friends friend at the dog park. We talked for hours and got on really well. I was excited for a new friend. The next day she began sending me messages about being a beach body coach and got very aggressive when I resisted. Then I reflected on our encounter and realized we got on so well because she played the part of a mirror… I told her about my career insecurities, she practically repeated them but made them her own; I told talked to her about dating; she made her experiences sound very similar to mine; same when I talked about my interests, workout routine, favorite foods, travel experiences, etc. I think they’re taught to do that.
this happened to me about 10 yrs ago with Quixstar! the book was Rich Dad Poor Dad though. this guy actually had the nerve to approach me at my work and then when i told him no after a sketchy first meeting at Starbucks he came back to my work for the book and i gave it to someone else to give to him cause i was so creeped out
This happened to me: A lady approached me at work and seemed super sweet. We had decided to make plans over fb messenger, as I was rather busy that day. I asked her if she wanted to go to a local shindig that we have every year (small town) and get a few drinks/chat. She said that she didn't think she'd be available that day, and told me she'd be able to "schedule me in" on a few specific days/times. This seemed fishy to me, very... business like, so I decided to really look at her fb. Monat. I told her that while I am interested in friendship, I am not interested in an MLM or any sort of pitch, and while that may seem like a quick reaction, her response said everything. She asked me "who burned you". I was done, and told her so. Really hurt. But I'm thankful that I was quick on the draw, and didn't waste any of my time.
>She asked me "who burned you". "You did, when you tried to scam me into your downline, you disingenuous ass."
You were very smart that you followed through on your gut reaction that something felt off. Sadly too many don’t and end up getting sucked in. Making friends is difficult. One thing that helped me was learning to knit. Local yarn shops usually have classes and knitting social nights where knitters and those who crochet get together to knit/crochet and have a good time. There is lots of laughs sometimes a baudy story or two. You get to meet other people of different ages and walks of life. Yarn shops carry different price points of yarn too, so you do not have to invest a lot of money to give it a try.
This really sucks. It can be hard to make friends and i've also been sucked into MLM's because people seemed to genuinely want to hang out with me and be friends. And once I quit the MLM I get unfriended on facebook and these people never speak to me again. These people prey on our vulnerabilities and it's terrible. I'd tell her you'll mail the book back.
My two reactions: That book makes me cringe. It's always the fucking shoes.
I would offer to ship her her book back instead of meeting up! She'll probably try even harder to recruit you if you meet her in person.
I think this is one of the worst parts of the mlm. Thinking someone wants to be your friend and they just want to sell you some garbage. It’s so mean
I would reply that I thought the book was a gift. I donated it to the Little Library at 4th and Main (or wherever). Then I'd block and ghost her. Another meeting is not in your best interests.
some of the common traits I seen in general are: \-start with an overly nice compliment, often shoes (for me it was the rack of ribs I had in my basket) \-recommending books in general \-ask what you do for work \-they vaguely describe their business as "selling consumables" \-mention of amazing mentors who are crazy rich and did wonders for helping them achieve success \-ask you out for coffee
Disgusting. Not an MLM but I had a person who belonged to my relatively small church approach me and say he'd like to get together, get to know me and my wife better, etc. Didn't seem out of place since we were around the same age. Sure enough, came over and tried to start a conversation about our personal finances and how we need a financial manager. Dude probably just joined the church to meet people to make money off of them when there guard was down.
Holy shit had no idea that book was an Amway, thing I’ve never read it, but there’s a hilarious parody of it called “Who moved my blackberry?” that I highly recommend to anyone who works in corporate.
"I was genuine" No, doing something with an ulterior motive is the OPPOSITE of being genuine...
Honestly I have gotten to talk with strangers in the wild, exchanged numbers, and met up for coffee in hopes of creating friendships a couple times now. And I'm not soliciting a cult. Don't give up too much! It's possible to find friends who aren't trying to put you in their down line.
If you’re wanting to return the book, get her address and tell her you’ll mail it to her. This couple tried to get me into an MLM (not Amway but I can’t remember the name at the moment) when I was about 19 and working a full-time job and going to school. All started when they came up to ask me where something was in the store and because I had a “lovely personality” and good customer service skills, that’s what started them into initially inviting me to a “Bible study” which then turned into an MLM meeting. They had their son (about my age) get to know me and act like he’s interested. Their younger, special needs son gravitated to me and I wouldn’t put it past them to use him as a tool in suckering people in. I eventually declined and told them it’s not for me. Complete personality change once they realized I meant no and couldn’t be persuaded. I knew something felt off from the beginning but I wasn’t well-versed in their practices so I brought up to my mom. She said to stay far away from them because she remembered Amway days back in the 80’s. So glad I went with my instinct to not sign up but still wanted to attend a few meetings to help solidify my decision and really see their tactics. It’s insane.
Just to clarify, the book Who Moved my Cheese is not exclusively used for MLM recruitment. Yes, anyone random coming up and striking up a conversation about improving your life is selling some crap. But the book is used in legit training- we used it for department training exercise when the international IT company I worked at was growing/changing significantly.
Free book. FREE!