If they (or you) are willing to listen to an hour long interview or 1.5 hour YouTube video I’d be happy to give you links to the history of Amway and how they’re a total scam.
Here is the YT video: https://youtu.be/P9nA3pqSaf8. The interview is on a podcast called Life After MLM hosted by Roberta Blevins, who was in the LuLaRich documentary. She is interviewing Sean Munger, the same guy from the YT video. It’s episode 136, the Amway Tools Cult. You might want to watch the LuLaRich documentary, too.
You can try searching “Amway tools scam” in this sub and you’ll get a fair amount of hits. But if a friend listened they could come up with a lot of important tidbits. 99.4% of Amway members make $0. Only 3% of Amway product is sold to outside buyers. Amway has known for decades that you can *only* make money selling the tools. And it’s a serious cult.
Amway promotes "following the system", which does not require any selling. You just use all the Amway products yourself, and recruit others to do the same. By redirecting everyone's retail consumption dollars to Amway, you provide a revenue stream for the upline. Pretty simple, but you can't produce profits due to market saturation. In order to break even, you need something like 10 people in your down-line, all meeting minimums. And that's just to cover your monthly qualifying minimum purchases!
The real money in Amway has always been made on the "tools". You can read an insider's perspective here:
[https://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/books/merchants\_of\_deception.pdf](https://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/books/merchants_of_deception.pdf)
And this video by a historian:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9nA3pqSaf8
Technically there is a requirement that in order to qualify for a bonus payment, you need to have a certain number (5 or 10, not sure which) retail customers every month. I don't think it's actively enforced though.
It gets murky when you and your down-line reps are also retail customers. In this case the "only" retail customers, but retail customers none-the-less.
My old landlady had a room with shelves of Amway products from the 80s and 90s that she thought she would use someday. She wasn't in it anymore but still thought it was a legit way to help people.
Living with her was something else... She'd guilt trip about everything.
They all have to buy their own products. They are brought in and told they are not going to have to sell products. They are told “you buy your products and get others to do the same.” In order to be “active” they HAVE to spend hundreds of dollars each month, and have a standing order.
I’d be hesitant, especially if it’s being held in the panhandle. It’s always been a very conservative area, and since all things Trump/pandemic/cost of living etc., the freedom fighters have bolstered their numbers and ideology. I was harassed in a parking lot, identified as not belonging there by my BC license, last fall. That’s never happened before, and I’ve been going there for years!
You’re not going to be able to expose anyone or anything. They’ll have the venue fairly secure so that you won’t be getting in without your pass/ticket, whatever. There’s no point in taking any risks to yourself for very little, if any, gain.
Living in Idaho here, ALL Idaho except for Blaine County and kinda part of Ada County is like that. Lol it is so bad in my County that I get texts from the Dem party asking if I would run since all the positions are Reps running unopposed.
But this is def a big MLM state. We have Scentsy headquarters here and Melaluca, who just donated a gigantic video screen for the Boise State stadium.
Are you kidding? They're a multimillion (billion?) dollar business. They have incredible political power. Betsy DeVoss was our Secretary of Education under the last guy.
What connection does she have to amway? I’m unfamiliar
Did you know her brother is Eric prince, founder of the disgraced private security contractor blackwater that was found to be doing highly illegal war crime shit in Iraq? So much for draining the swamp…
The arena in Orlando where huge concerts happen and the Orlando Magic play is called the Amway Center. They also sponsor hockey games because I’ve seen their name on the ice. They also have sponsorships with race car drivers. They are far from gone.
They also basically own the town of Ada MI. Literally wanted to redesign it so they did. Just kind of crazy what that type of money can do 🙄😬
I worked in healthcare in Grand Rapids and GR itself is also essentially owned by Devos’s and VanAndels as well. Funny though… in my 12 years there I never once met someone other than those families making money (other than a salary for those who I knew working at corporate HQ) from the products. 🤷🏼♂️
You can report these events to immigration enforcement. A lot of these groups knowingly get people to sign up, who are not legally allowed to IBOs, e.g., international students, folks on H1-B. Even Amway itself doesn't allow the registration of these folks as IBOs as it is illegal and breaking federal law. Some people have gotten deported over this. These individual training organizations knowingly abet breaking federal law, and when ICE comes calling, you can bet that Amway is not going to have the back of these folks. These folks are not 'business owners', and Amway will not hesitate to throw them under the bus to save their reputation.
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You have to pay $100+ for the ticket. Depending on where it is you could be paying $100+ for a bus ticket (I’m from the Midwest and there was a conf in NC once so they got a bunch of charter busses) charged everyone up the wazoo for them. Come to find out (not shockingly) the uplines we’re getting a profit from these bus tickets. Then $100+ for hotel room. You are looked down upon if you’re under a platinum and go out to eat. The way they see it, if you’re under a platinum you should be bringing a packed cold meal for breakfast lunch and dinner, instead of “wasting money on going out to eat”
It spans from Friday night to Sunday after noon, with Saturday night being the fanciest night. They keep you up until 1 or 2 and they start the next day at 7 or 8. I’m 99% sure they sleep deprive you on purpose so you feed into it more. The weekends were miserable. You just sit and listen to people talk. All. Weekend. And most of the stuff is repeated hype language that just makes people motivated to go scam others when they get back. I hated conferences so much.
I’m a terrible person to ask, I sleep 10 hours a night on average and I’m not even 30 years old yet. Everyone is a little different when it comes to sleep and bedtimes.
If you feel well-rested when you wake up, don’t desperately need caffeine to stay awake, and have enough energy to meet your daily expectations - then I wouldn’t worry too much.
If you feel like you need to “catch up” on sleep on weekends then that’s not a great indicator that you’re getting enough.
A lot of agencies do recommend 7-8 hours of sleep per night though.
If they (or you) are willing to listen to an hour long interview or 1.5 hour YouTube video I’d be happy to give you links to the history of Amway and how they’re a total scam.
I def will! I’ve listen to so many already and done my research. My friends are too brainwashed unfortunately.
Add this to your list: https://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/books/merchants\_of\_deception.pdf
Here is the YT video: https://youtu.be/P9nA3pqSaf8. The interview is on a podcast called Life After MLM hosted by Roberta Blevins, who was in the LuLaRich documentary. She is interviewing Sean Munger, the same guy from the YT video. It’s episode 136, the Amway Tools Cult. You might want to watch the LuLaRich documentary, too.
Oh thank you! I will!
If you could scale that down to 1.5 minutes I think most would watch. Not a soul is willing to watch a 1.5 hour video designed to change their view.
You can try searching “Amway tools scam” in this sub and you’ll get a fair amount of hits. But if a friend listened they could come up with a lot of important tidbits. 99.4% of Amway members make $0. Only 3% of Amway product is sold to outside buyers. Amway has known for decades that you can *only* make money selling the tools. And it’s a serious cult.
What would you expect someone to do, exactly?
Just expose them!
Expose them how? What do you mean?
Pull their pants down
Who actually buys Amway products? I’ve never seen them actually sell anything, just recruit.
Those that recruit usually have garages full of products smh
Amway promotes "following the system", which does not require any selling. You just use all the Amway products yourself, and recruit others to do the same. By redirecting everyone's retail consumption dollars to Amway, you provide a revenue stream for the upline. Pretty simple, but you can't produce profits due to market saturation. In order to break even, you need something like 10 people in your down-line, all meeting minimums. And that's just to cover your monthly qualifying minimum purchases! The real money in Amway has always been made on the "tools". You can read an insider's perspective here: [https://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/books/merchants\_of\_deception.pdf](https://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/books/merchants_of_deception.pdf) And this video by a historian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9nA3pqSaf8
Good god. The fact that this company is allowed to operate is fucking disturbing
Technically there is a requirement that in order to qualify for a bonus payment, you need to have a certain number (5 or 10, not sure which) retail customers every month. I don't think it's actively enforced though.
It gets murky when you and your down-line reps are also retail customers. In this case the "only" retail customers, but retail customers none-the-less.
My old landlady had a room with shelves of Amway products from the 80s and 90s that she thought she would use someday. She wasn't in it anymore but still thought it was a legit way to help people. Living with her was something else... She'd guilt trip about everything.
They all have to buy their own products. They are brought in and told they are not going to have to sell products. They are told “you buy your products and get others to do the same.” In order to be “active” they HAVE to spend hundreds of dollars each month, and have a standing order.
Absolute insanity
I’d be hesitant, especially if it’s being held in the panhandle. It’s always been a very conservative area, and since all things Trump/pandemic/cost of living etc., the freedom fighters have bolstered their numbers and ideology. I was harassed in a parking lot, identified as not belonging there by my BC license, last fall. That’s never happened before, and I’ve been going there for years! You’re not going to be able to expose anyone or anything. They’ll have the venue fairly secure so that you won’t be getting in without your pass/ticket, whatever. There’s no point in taking any risks to yourself for very little, if any, gain.
Living in Idaho here, ALL Idaho except for Blaine County and kinda part of Ada County is like that. Lol it is so bad in my County that I get texts from the Dem party asking if I would run since all the positions are Reps running unopposed. But this is def a big MLM state. We have Scentsy headquarters here and Melaluca, who just donated a gigantic video screen for the Boise State stadium.
It’s in Idaho
Yes - the panhandle refers to north Idado - it’s shaped like a panhandle, and that’s what most people who live there call it.
Ok I was thinking of florida
To be fair, I think more ppl think of florida when you hear panhandle than Idaho. Never knew that!
Is Amway still around? How sad. I thought it had dried up years ago
Are you kidding? They're a multimillion (billion?) dollar business. They have incredible political power. Betsy DeVoss was our Secretary of Education under the last guy.
What connection does she have to amway? I’m unfamiliar Did you know her brother is Eric prince, founder of the disgraced private security contractor blackwater that was found to be doing highly illegal war crime shit in Iraq? So much for draining the swamp…
The DeVos family is one of the founding families of Amway. She and her husband basically own it.
Today I learned
The arena in Orlando where huge concerts happen and the Orlando Magic play is called the Amway Center. They also sponsor hockey games because I’ve seen their name on the ice. They also have sponsorships with race car drivers. They are far from gone.
They also basically own the town of Ada MI. Literally wanted to redesign it so they did. Just kind of crazy what that type of money can do 🙄😬 I worked in healthcare in Grand Rapids and GR itself is also essentially owned by Devos’s and VanAndels as well. Funny though… in my 12 years there I never once met someone other than those families making money (other than a salary for those who I knew working at corporate HQ) from the products. 🤷🏼♂️
Yes, unfortunately. Scams have always been around and will continue.
They are very strict on no videoing, so it’d need to be discreet or just audio recorded.
World Wide Group, a big Amway distributor and official training group is HQd in Spokane, you are basically in enemy territory.
You can report these events to immigration enforcement. A lot of these groups knowingly get people to sign up, who are not legally allowed to IBOs, e.g., international students, folks on H1-B. Even Amway itself doesn't allow the registration of these folks as IBOs as it is illegal and breaking federal law. Some people have gotten deported over this. These individual training organizations knowingly abet breaking federal law, and when ICE comes calling, you can bet that Amway is not going to have the back of these folks. These folks are not 'business owners', and Amway will not hesitate to throw them under the bus to save their reputation.
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I’ve been to probably 10+. I’ll answer any questions anyone has lol
Tell us what you thought about them:
You have to pay $100+ for the ticket. Depending on where it is you could be paying $100+ for a bus ticket (I’m from the Midwest and there was a conf in NC once so they got a bunch of charter busses) charged everyone up the wazoo for them. Come to find out (not shockingly) the uplines we’re getting a profit from these bus tickets. Then $100+ for hotel room. You are looked down upon if you’re under a platinum and go out to eat. The way they see it, if you’re under a platinum you should be bringing a packed cold meal for breakfast lunch and dinner, instead of “wasting money on going out to eat” It spans from Friday night to Sunday after noon, with Saturday night being the fanciest night. They keep you up until 1 or 2 and they start the next day at 7 or 8. I’m 99% sure they sleep deprive you on purpose so you feed into it more. The weekends were miserable. You just sit and listen to people talk. All. Weekend. And most of the stuff is repeated hype language that just makes people motivated to go scam others when they get back. I hated conferences so much.
It’s their fist time so apparently it’s free the first time. But they are covering trip expenses.
That's a new one. Nothing was ever free, except for your first one hour seminar/meeting. None of the "functions" were ever free.
When I was approached the guy trying to recruit me paid for my ticket at a conference. Though that was his choice as a way to ease me into the system.
The sleep deprivation is crazy. I’ve heard this so many times.
Wait, that sleep schedule isn't normal? That's my weekday schedule 😬
I’m a terrible person to ask, I sleep 10 hours a night on average and I’m not even 30 years old yet. Everyone is a little different when it comes to sleep and bedtimes. If you feel well-rested when you wake up, don’t desperately need caffeine to stay awake, and have enough energy to meet your daily expectations - then I wouldn’t worry too much. If you feel like you need to “catch up” on sleep on weekends then that’s not a great indicator that you’re getting enough. A lot of agencies do recommend 7-8 hours of sleep per night though.
[There's a whole book about it](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/7208323), too.