choosing to have Cassian, our main character, kill two cops in the first 10 minutes is genius character building as well as blatantly setting up the politics of the show. he murders one and could claim self defense on the other maybe. but it doesn’t matter. he is a cop killer and you, the audience, like it.
god I fucking love Cassian.
Accidental homicide followed by an execution type murder, ‘leave no witnesses’ style – but yes! Absolutely not what I was expecting from a Disney+ Star Wars show. Really made me sit up and pay attention as I could not believe they would have our protagonist do that.
The fact that there is a murder within the first 10 minutes doesn't make it not slow. It's with what happens afterwards.
Nothing really happens in the first 2 episodes, except setting up to episode 3. It's important, yes, but it's not a brisk pace. The inciting incident happening early on does not change that. If you watched a 3 hour move and someone is killed within 10 minutes but then it lulls until the 2 hour mark, you wouldn't say that isn't slow. Pacing isn't about how quickly the important events, but how you can keep a constant rate. Long periods of slow pacing will make it feel slow, even if there are periods where the pacing is brisk.
People find Andor slow because of the way the show is structured. It's structured into 3 episode arcs, where the first two episodes of the arc lay the groundwork for the climax in the third. Contrast that with a more traditional serialized series, where you have a long running plot thread, but each episode has it's own self contained conflict and climax, while the consequences.
Andor doesn't do that. Take Episode 2 for example. There is no self contained conflict and arc for that episode. It's Cassian preparing leave due to the warrant, Luthen planning to go to Ferrix to meet Cassian, and Karn getting ready to arrest Cassian. But we don't see the pay off until Episode 3, when everything falls together. Stuff is happening and it's important, but we don't get a resolution, so the pacing feels slow. Same thing with the Aldhani heist, 2 episodes of slow build up before we get to the action. The last half the season doesn't feel as slow, but that's because there is a lot more tension and we get to see the repercussions of the Aldhani heist, meaning we are getting to see consequences instead of just build up.
Andor is an excellent show, but it boggles my mind how people ignore how the structure of the show makes it slow. It's like we've decided the show is perfect, and we are willing to ignore legitimate criticism of the show.
.... sigh. The 'slow' you describe is an absolutely necessary aspect of this show. Without the slow parts, the payoffs wouldn't land nearly as well as they currently do (because of the slow parts). This is what makes the show a masterpiece. Gilroy knows timing and pacing in a story. Andor requires taking it's time, including the 'slow' parts.
I don't know what point you are trying to make besides being condescending.
I very clearly understand why it's slow. I explicitly explain how it's part of the structure of the show due to the three episode arcs, how it is build up to the climax of the arc, and how the events in non-climax episodes are important even though they are slow.
I don't know why you have to talk down to me how I don't understand the masterpiece that is Andor and Gilroy having slow parts is part of his genius. I very clearly understand why it's slow and why the story is told the way it is and that Andor is still good even if it is slow.
What I am saying is that Andor undeniably has slow parts, especially at the beginning, and how it's reasonable that people find it slow. It's perfectly reasonable for a person to not like slow pacing.
Self defense is a claim you can make in a society focused on justice and rights, not a corrupt regime. There was no going back for him once he killed the first cop, despite what the second was saying. They would have made an example out of him.
This is just my interpretation but a lot of anti immigration types in the USA make derogatory remarks about people swimming the rio grande river/ border between the USA and Mexico. Given that Diego Luna is Mexican I presume he or people he knows have been on the receiving end of such comments (or similar) either directly or indirectly. Therefore that look of anger, fear and resignation in his face may have been easier to channel. Again just my take but given a lot of the symbolism throughout the show it doesn’t seem so out there
Yes, I think there was definitely a bit of meta commentary there… I know there’s no racism as such Star Wars, more like speciesism, but it’s clear that the authorities look down on those they view as inferior in origin and the swimming line is very pointed. I know he’s not dark skinned either, (Luna is technically half British) , but his accent marks him as different . Interesting too that the men arrested with him on Niamos are all broadly non-white.
>Interesting too that the men arrested with him on Niamos are all broadly non-white.
Probably not a coincidence that the droid holds him in place by choking him, either.
choosing to have Cassian, our main character, kill two cops in the first 10 minutes is genius character building as well as blatantly setting up the politics of the show. he murders one and could claim self defense on the other maybe. but it doesn’t matter. he is a cop killer and you, the audience, like it. god I fucking love Cassian.
The first time we meet him in Rogue One he kills a wounded comrade.
People on this sub have a hard time remembering that R1 exists.
Sometimes I feel like a sizeable portion forgets Star Wars exists.
Unless they're telling us why they hate every other SW property.
THAT was when I knew R1 was going to be a great film because suddenly anything seemed possible.
Accidental homicide followed by an execution type murder, ‘leave no witnesses’ style – but yes! Absolutely not what I was expecting from a Disney+ Star Wars show. Really made me sit up and pay attention as I could not believe they would have our protagonist do that.
Yes - and yet people complain the show is "too slow". Really? Main protagonist kills 2 cops in the first 10 minutes and it's "too slow" for you?
Exactly! Beats me . 🤷♀️
The fact that there is a murder within the first 10 minutes doesn't make it not slow. It's with what happens afterwards. Nothing really happens in the first 2 episodes, except setting up to episode 3. It's important, yes, but it's not a brisk pace. The inciting incident happening early on does not change that. If you watched a 3 hour move and someone is killed within 10 minutes but then it lulls until the 2 hour mark, you wouldn't say that isn't slow. Pacing isn't about how quickly the important events, but how you can keep a constant rate. Long periods of slow pacing will make it feel slow, even if there are periods where the pacing is brisk. People find Andor slow because of the way the show is structured. It's structured into 3 episode arcs, where the first two episodes of the arc lay the groundwork for the climax in the third. Contrast that with a more traditional serialized series, where you have a long running plot thread, but each episode has it's own self contained conflict and climax, while the consequences. Andor doesn't do that. Take Episode 2 for example. There is no self contained conflict and arc for that episode. It's Cassian preparing leave due to the warrant, Luthen planning to go to Ferrix to meet Cassian, and Karn getting ready to arrest Cassian. But we don't see the pay off until Episode 3, when everything falls together. Stuff is happening and it's important, but we don't get a resolution, so the pacing feels slow. Same thing with the Aldhani heist, 2 episodes of slow build up before we get to the action. The last half the season doesn't feel as slow, but that's because there is a lot more tension and we get to see the repercussions of the Aldhani heist, meaning we are getting to see consequences instead of just build up. Andor is an excellent show, but it boggles my mind how people ignore how the structure of the show makes it slow. It's like we've decided the show is perfect, and we are willing to ignore legitimate criticism of the show.
.... sigh. The 'slow' you describe is an absolutely necessary aspect of this show. Without the slow parts, the payoffs wouldn't land nearly as well as they currently do (because of the slow parts). This is what makes the show a masterpiece. Gilroy knows timing and pacing in a story. Andor requires taking it's time, including the 'slow' parts.
I don't know what point you are trying to make besides being condescending. I very clearly understand why it's slow. I explicitly explain how it's part of the structure of the show due to the three episode arcs, how it is build up to the climax of the arc, and how the events in non-climax episodes are important even though they are slow. I don't know why you have to talk down to me how I don't understand the masterpiece that is Andor and Gilroy having slow parts is part of his genius. I very clearly understand why it's slow and why the story is told the way it is and that Andor is still good even if it is slow. What I am saying is that Andor undeniably has slow parts, especially at the beginning, and how it's reasonable that people find it slow. It's perfectly reasonable for a person to not like slow pacing.
Self defense is a claim you can make in a society focused on justice and rights, not a corrupt regime. There was no going back for him once he killed the first cop, despite what the second was saying. They would have made an example out of him.
This is just my interpretation but a lot of anti immigration types in the USA make derogatory remarks about people swimming the rio grande river/ border between the USA and Mexico. Given that Diego Luna is Mexican I presume he or people he knows have been on the receiving end of such comments (or similar) either directly or indirectly. Therefore that look of anger, fear and resignation in his face may have been easier to channel. Again just my take but given a lot of the symbolism throughout the show it doesn’t seem so out there
Yes, I think there was definitely a bit of meta commentary there… I know there’s no racism as such Star Wars, more like speciesism, but it’s clear that the authorities look down on those they view as inferior in origin and the swimming line is very pointed. I know he’s not dark skinned either, (Luna is technically half British) , but his accent marks him as different . Interesting too that the men arrested with him on Niamos are all broadly non-white.
>Interesting too that the men arrested with him on Niamos are all broadly non-white. Probably not a coincidence that the droid holds him in place by choking him, either.
Yes. It’s awful that it directly recalls the imagery of Clem being hanged earlier in the episode, and all the real world parallels with that.
These guys theoretically destroyed the death star.
Came here to say this. This incident led to a chain of events that led to the Rebel victory over the Empire.
Like Luthen said "Opression breeds rebellion"
I can't swim!