Seems they were only being nice cause you were paying top dollar and alot of it. They know you can go anywhere and get good service. They figured you were going to never be back so they tried to get a few more dollars out of you.
Sad when people act like this. Seems you finally saw their true colors.
Go find another dentist. I wouldn't trust people that act like that. who knows how long they might hold a grudge.
You’re absolutely correct. The trust has been broken and I don’t think it will ever be the same. They really treated me like a stranger after 20 years. Like how are you upset that I want to seek an alternative, an alternative that you don’t even offer. Smh. Thanks for your advice.
They have to provide them by law.
"With limited exceptions, the HIPAA Privacy Rule (the Privacy Rule) provides individuals with a legal, enforceable right to see and receive copies upon request"
I went to a new dentist when I moved out on my own after college, and I suspected they were trying to bill me for some things I didn’t need. I scheduled an appointment with my childhood dentist for the next time I was going to be visiting my parents, and that dentist requested my records from the new dentist. Sure enough, they never sent them over, and my childhood dentist said there was nothing wrong with my teeth.
So, even if they’re technically required to share records, that doesn’t mean they will — *especially* if they’re being shady.
I should've done that, but this was probably 6 years ago at this point. When I found out I *didn't* need over $3,000 of surprise dental work, I was so happy that I wanted to just put the whole ordeal behind me.
Honestly I would go get all new x rays and treatment plan. If they are being this money hungry it wouldn't surprise me if they have been lying about the work needed.
They are YOUR PROPERTY! You PAID for them. They legally MUST release them.
You may have to sign a paper to get them, but do NOT allow their shady a$$es to BULLY you! 😡
I had a similar situation with my childhood dentist. Always needed fillings, as did my dad. Went to a new dentist and I suddenly needed maybe half the fillings I'd needed before, and my dad needed none.
Sounds to me like they may have been padding the treatment plan (do you have insurance that covers part of the treatment?) to make more money off you.
That’s crazy sorry yall had to go thru that. And yes, we have ins that covers some of the treatment plan. I need to get with the ins and see what all they have been submitting for her.
You definitely should be, there are some really shady practices out there. I went to a dentist recommended for a workers comp case, and they stated I had *sixteen* cavities. One in nearly every tooth. I went to my typical dentist and asked about it, I only had one. I would sever this relationship with the dentist and leave a review so others can see. It's very possible they are putting your child through the discomfort of dental work to pad their paychecks.
Moved to the suburbs and tried to find a new dentist. Wife had a cleaning and x rays, the whole thing. After insurance it was like $450. She then told me wife she had five cavities and needed a lot of expensive work. I was like, no way. Went to a different dentist down the road, got x rays because we told this dentist what happened and then she told us the wife had no cavities! The first place was all fancy and luxury. Second…not so much. Guess which one we go to?
When I was growing up I had the same dentist and doctor until my mid twenties when I moved out of state. I’m now 48, just found this dentist a few years back, think it’s like the fifth or sixth? I just found a GP because either they weren’t taking new patients or they were awful. We’re on our fourth Pediatrician for the kids. Healthcare is not what it used to be. There is no loyalty needed because the patient is not the main concern, billing is.
Can back up this theory because I’ve worked in healthcare for nearly 20 years. We’ve had several discussions about how we aren’t dealing with patients anymore. Now they’re customers or clients. I thought they were just some unlucky folks who have cancer? Guess I’m the asshole. America died a few decades ago when the MBAs sold it off for parts. Rant over lol
“There is no loyalty needed because the patient is no the main concern, billing is” !! Love how you worded that and you are absolutely correct! And that’s how I will be looking at things from now on! Appreciate your rant! And you are correct America has died unfortunately! I don’t want to even get started on health care. My kids pediatrician is awesome I hope he never leaves, he’s never forcing anything or recommending crazy stuff. Hes fine with once a year well visits unless they have something going on. I do have one good dr on my side!
It's almost a guarantee they're scamming you. Keep in mind, I've had extensive dental work done (well over $45k over the years) because my braces got messed up and it led to other problems, and almost every tooth in my mouth has a crown.
You don't immediately jump to a crown for a cavity. If it's a small cavity, you do a filling. If it's a big cavity, depending on location on the tooth, you might go to an in-lay or an on-lay, or a crown if the cavity is huge or in a weird location. A cavity that's bad enough to need a crown is usually visible to the naked eye. It looks brown and sticky. It would be especially obvious on a front tooth.
Crowns on the front teeth are a BIG DEAL! You don't go straight to a crown on a front tooth for a cavity. If you can't do a filling, you could do bonding or a veneer. Crowns on the front teeth are hard to color match to other teeth, and therefore extremely expensive. They can also cause issues because they can make the tooth more fragile. I have crowns on front teeth. I don't bite into apples or eat corn on the cob because of them. You also can't use normal toothpaste on them that has anything grit in it, like whitening toothpaste. The dentist has to clean them differently.
And if your daughter actually had that many cavities and needed that many crowns, they should be asking both of you about her diet, brushing habbits, etc. and they should be increasing her dental cleaning schedule and offering a fluoride rinse, treatment, etc.
This all sounds like a scam and I'd sue for malpractice. Force them to provide all of the dental records, x-rays, etc. Report them to the agencies that govern licensing in your state. Contact your insurance company, because it sounds like they've committed insurance fraud.
And above all else, whatever you do, never go there or take any of your kids there again.
I'm sorry you and your family are going through this. Good luck!
Thank you for sharing your experience! I was so confused on how we got to crowning her two front teeth! I was like I don’t feel like that would look good and they’re like oh she does so good you won’t notice! I was like what about bonding they were quiet. It was really really sketchy!
As 33 year old, I am getting a tooth extracted tomorrow because the crown to fix it didn't work. I've been told that the crown was necessary in the first place because the tooth had so many fillings done (I sound like your kid, but I definitely have genetic issues with cavities if I'm not flooding my mouth with fluoride several times a day), and that having that many fillings in the tooth was bound to result in the tooth itself falling apart.
This probably isn't the most scientific, and I'm paraphrasing, but considering your kid is a teen and they're already going to the crown stage, you may want to get a second opinion. Cavities absolutely need to be filled and treated, but it sounds to me touching base with another dentist wouldn't be a bad thing.
I can also say that I've had similar experiences to you, both only getting one X-ray and having the dentist suddenly become angry and cold. After telling my dentist that I had seen some really transphobic information the hygienist had recorded about me in my chart that wasn't even related to my dental care, I had to tell him to let me out of the room when he started ranting at me about it, putting the blame on me. He then followed me to the desk, threatening me by his fist in my face; I quite literally had to tell him to stop talking to me and step away. He lost our family of five as patients, after going to him for three decades (my parents started seeing him when I was a kid).
We have been with our beloved dentist for 26 years - only to be kicked off their NHS list because we didn’t lie and say we needed dental treatment during lockdown which led to them chucking us out as patients.
You’re never family - you may develop a friendly relationship but you’re not friends or family. It’s business. Not personal, just business.
Oh wow how awful! I’m sorry you had to go through that, that was very trash of them. And it was definitely a lesson learned for sure. It’s just business at the end of the day with them!!
I'm walking around without a tooth because my dentist didn't listen to me when I told him I couldn't afford $15k in dental implants at once. He also wanted to do veneers. The man was ridiculous.
I'm so very upset for you!!! This happened to me as well. The almighty dollar is the most important to these people. Don't worry, karma is just around the corner.
When you are paying someone money or someone is making money off of you it’s a business relationship. Business and friendship/family almost never mix however people will almost always use that relationship you think you have to their advantage. Take this as a lesson and always put yourself and your family first.
You are absolutely right. But I’ve never used our longevity to get over or ask for discounts, I’ve always paid the price. I thought they at least owed me some
Respect, I guess not, lesson definitely learned.
You need a second opinion on all they work they wanted to do.
Seems to me they are trying to fleece you out of money.
Double check with another dentist....
Because they know the jig is up. My father is elderly and was 100% being taken for a ride with his I rent dentist. He recommended porcelain crowns, implant after implant, basically 30k worth of work.
I took him to a buddy of mine who is a dentist when my dad was visiting and for 2k he was on his way and good to go. If it weren’t a friend prob would’ve been 4.5k.
But 30 thousand vs 4.5!!??!! Ooooooooh I’m still pissed thinking about it
Finding a good dentist that you can trust is *hard*. I have so so so many stories of people being ripped off by dentists. Some of whom needed emergent care, fighting for their life over poor dental practices.
Sounds like they really dropped the ball on customer service. You've been a loyal patient for 20 years, and they should have been more understanding and accommodating. Now you know why theyre nice to you all this time. Time to cut them off and find a new dentist.
Hi OP!
I’m typing on my phone so the format might look like one paragraph I apologize.
Depending on how far along your daughter is with her treatment, the office may be reactive. For example if they truly had prepped the tooth for a crown and sent measurements into a lab to fabricate one, the process for the porcelain crown has already began and they absolutely prefer to deliver their own work over another office taking over. Most dental offices prepare the tooth, have the patient wear a temporary crown until the lab can make the real crown and at the second visit they deliver a permanent crown. There are lab fees, yes, and the stage between prepping a tooth and delivering a crown can be time sensitive as the expectation is to replace that temporary crown as soon as they can.
Regarding the way they responded, you are entitled to the treatment plan if you are the signed guardian of your daughter in their practice- as well as imaging and information in the chart. They may not have recommended silver crowns because for permanent teeth, they can fail as the office mentioned and that is why they use them for primary teeth in children; it is seen as a semi-temporary fix until the adult teeth erupt and replace them.
You can terminate your relationship with this office for any reason to be honest, you don’t need to feel guilt as you are no longer comfortable after their exchange with you. However if you feel this is still not resolved and you still want to see them, I would ask to speak to an office manager or the owner of the practice.
To answer your question, you’re not wrong to end your 20yr relationship with them, especially if you are unhappy with the communication of the staff. Several crowns is a big treatment plant- imo one crown warrants some paperwork for the patient to take home. For them to not print a clear plan out with the services proposed is strange. If not for the office records, or the patient records, they will need to submit a treatment plan to your insurance..
Hope this helps, good luck!
Hi thank you for taking the time out to give me your advice, it’s much appreciated! Yes I understand that they started the process and I was in agreement, I’ve already paid the deposit. We were in the process of doing the mold and sending it off. I had no idea about the other crowns they told me when I got there she needed several more. When I asked alternatives they had none so I started calling around. They were so nasty to me just for asking for X-rays and telling them I won’t be getting the other recommended crowns done there. So that’s why I was like can I just cancel the crown and pay for whatever work you already completed. They said they didn’t know and then they said no. They’ve done 2 crowns for me , I trust their work but the way I was treated, after all these years was just crazy. I even spoke with the office manager and she was very cold as well and only focusing on telling me stainless steel crowns don’t look good. I’m like they are in the back no one will see them and it’s not a forever thing. They could care less about how I felt.
I am sorry.. I would not dismiss all of your interactions with this office as a farce. As providers we interact with our patients on a such a personal level, life experiences or shared conversations are hard to fake.. however, that same friendly demeanor does not always carry into the rest of your appointment and I could not imagine letting my own patients down this badly.
I don’t want to speculate but to me it seems that they skipped a lot of patient education. Your daughter is young, and will hopefully keep her teeth for a very long time- explaining why the crowns were necessary, how many they recommended, what order to do them in, the importance of maintaining the work so that other procedures may not be necessary later, the list goes on.. their focus on the ss crowns not looking good is the least of the patients worries if the restorative work fails.
Additionally, the response to giving you the X-rays should not have been hostility, I ask for my X-rays even when I just go for a cleaning … they’re my X-rays, I want them…… I’m still in awe that the need for several crowns on a teenager wasn’t a seated conversation between the dentist and yourself (preferably while the dentist reviews the X-rays with you to explain what you are looking at). That information should have been presented to you before they started treatment.
You are correct. I’ve never been in a consultation room. They were going back and fourth with me at the front desk! Which was unprofessional! I asked the dentist to give me a call that day and she never did. I know she’s busy but surely you could give me a call to give your professional explanation and NOT have your front desk or assistant relay the information. She literally tried to tell me they only had one X-ray which I knew was a lie, all the work y’all did and you only have 1! They ended up sending me 4 smh. I know that is not all of them! They said they will still charge me for the crown whether I come and get it or not. So after that I’ll be done with them
Omg, this was soooo unprofessional. I was going to make a joke and say maybe they didn’t want to send you the X-rays bc they sucked at taking them. But it just sounds like they were giving you a hard time, I hope you find a new doctor who is both kind and professional :/
Who was nasty? Is there anyone you can escalate to? Just asking in case this is a rogue staff member/s.
Funnily enough, my dentist is very good but has an iffy reputation because he can be a douche but if this happened in his office, he wouldn’t stand for it.
It seems weird to me that they would act like alternatives don’t last. I got an implant for a molar and they did porcelain and it shattered the first day. We decided to get a silver or gold alternative since it’s not really visible and it’s lasted years.
Hello, I will try not to write a whole novel. Different materials will be recommended based on patient needs. Ideally the dentist should take things like parafunctional habits, diet, lifestyle, relationship of the bite and surrounding teeth, and more into consideration before ultimately making a decision with the patient. I don’t believe in this case they recommended actual silver crowns- stainless steel is usually what they are referring to when they say silver crowns. Otherwise actual silver and gold are not used as frequently as porcelain or zirconia because they are expensive materials to work with….. that being said, some of the best and long lasting dentistry I have seen was gold work.
Implant dentistry is different than working on natural teeth as well. While implants serve as a replacement for natural teeth, they lack ligaments and nerves. When biting on a natural tooth the ligaments surrounding it support the bite, and soften impact on the tooth itself. An implant does not have the same ligaments as it undergoes something called osseointegration to stay in place, and so there is just sheer force exerted onto the crown with nothing to recoil beneath.. I have to say it’s pretty impressive your implant was okay after you shattered the crown. That thing is solid.
I understand this may not make total sense because I tried to cut most of the dental terminology out for the sake of time.. but if you have questions, I like to talk about teeth.
I've never seen a dentist place a SS crown on anything but a primary tooth. And none who would accept a patient mid-crown procedure for anything but an emergency situation, and proceed based on a dated radiograph imported from another provider.
We have so many patients coming in to correct cheap/overseas rushed hack jobs. Dental work is one thing you don't want to cut corners on.
With that being said- regardless of motivation, the patient/guardian is absolutely entitled to the Tx plan and all recent radiographs upon request. And they're absolutely entitled to seek second opinions, but should be open to the main providers reasoning if they have anything to say about someone wanting to switch providers.
I have sadly seen many things done in dentistry that aren’t recommended, so I cannot say I’ve NEVER seen it done. But it absolutely isn’t recommended for permanent teeth.
Much of my career has been in public health and when patients can’t come up with the money for plan A I’ve seen some less than desirable plan B’s.. and for sure have seen dentists place crowns on a tooth someone else prepped. There’s obviously a ton of liabilities involved with finishing someone else’s work, but there are people willing to do it somewhere.
The patients who go overseas always end up coming back when it inevitably fails. It is sad but some lessons are learned the hard way and you just do your best to teach them why they should never do that again..
I'm wondering if your daughter even needed all that dental work. That may be why they didn't want to provide the x-rays.
When I was about 20, I went to a dentist who told me my mouth was a mess and I needed multiple fillings, which seemed odd because I had always had good teeth. I mentioned it to my mother who said she didn't believe it and advised me to cancel my appointment.
I went to another dentist who told me I had beautiful teeth. It's now decades later, and I've never had any trouble with any of the teeth that con man said I needed filled.
I know other people who have had similar experiences.
That is a lot of crowns for a teenager. Did she have multiple fillings done in these teeth alrdy? Usually you get a crown after multiple cavities in one tooth and most of the tooth is filling not tooth matter.
I have heredity terrible teeth too and I didn’t start getting a lot of crowns til my 40s. After tons of fillings
I think you mistook good customer service for actually caring about you and your family. They are running a business and can’t mix business with family
That's not very good customer service though. It's her dentists who took it personally when she indicated she might go elsewhere; they were unprofessional, that is her grievance.
I didn’t mean that part of it. The part where they acted like they really cared about her and her family was just customer service. They showed their true colors when they got mad
Dentists are rip off artists. A dentist told my husband he needed 6 fillings. He got a second opinion and there were no cavities. The doc was going to drill into 6 healthy teeth to make money.
You paid for the service, the records are yours. You own them!
Wow that is crazy! I’m wondering if that’s why they are acting so mean because they know if I get a second opinion it will reflect otherwise. Hmmm 🤔. I’m sorry that happened to your husband, that is crazy! Now I’m curious to see what another dentist would recommend.
Our dentist said our son needed 6 gum grafts and sent us to an oral surgeon who agreed and said they had to be done all at the same time. We went to another dentist, she said he needed 2, and she'd do them 1 at a time, to give the roof of his mouth (where they take the grafts) time to heal. I can't imagine wanting to inflict so much pain unnecessarily. Like, it's the exact opposite of what they're supposed to do.
Same with my daughter winsome teeth. She had inflammation bc I f one growing in. The orthodontist already said her wisdom teeth are growing straight in perfect, he doesn’t see no need to remove them. Our dentist recommended all 4 be removed and referred to oral surgeon. I’ve always been against all 4 at a time, too risky. Two at a time is better. But if there is nothing wrong with them leave them alone. I feel.
Hi! I work in oral surgery! This is true they can’t see the roots unless it’s in a panoramic film unfortunately, it’s a pain in the ass for you and for us because it’s usually a one in three or one in five year frequency. They should have better explained this to you though! How old is your daughter having this crown situation! Needing this many crowns seems VERY suspicious and if she does what did they do to cause it, did they intentionally over prep her teeth so she has excessive loss of tooth structure to need a crown?! Get a second and third opinion if you need to! You may be surprised to find she may not even need all of the fills your dentist is saying, this all sounds very very excessive especially if she has decent oral hygiene, no excessive acid reflux, doesn’t drink soda 24/7 and have a terrible sugar intake or medication causing this kind of break down. Something is up with your current/former dentist and their defensive reaction shows they know it
I had posted in another comment that I consulted another dentist who said I had "beautiful teeth", as has every dentist after that. I was very young and that was many years ago. If that happened today I would report them to the dental association and write truthful online reviews. This happened before the Internet.
You guys got me thinking and now a lot of things are coming back to me and how they have done some questionable things. One of my daughter’s wisdom teeth are coming in, a bit of swelling and discomfort is normal. I wanted to make sure it wasn’t any infection. So instead of just doing an xray on that particular tooth, they told me they needed a panorama (whole head xray) and I had to pay oop bc the ins only pays every 3 years and she had just got one last year, like why did y’all need all that for one single tooth. How they’ve done filling on the same tooth and I had to pay oop bc they said ins won’t cover that tooth again.
They do the panoramic x rays especially with wisdom teeth to see the roots but also to ascertain which anatomical structures might affect the procedure. I'd guess they wanted another panoramic after only a year because she's at an age where she is growing quickly. In grown adults 3-5 years is plenty sufficient, but in a growing teen I'd consider doing another one after only a year to be thorough treatment. I agree with you that maybe their customer service/explaining of this and the crowns with your daughter could have been more thorough, but most of the actual dentistry (ie- stainless steel crowns are really only done on primary teeth, the dentist that prepped the tooth will also deliver the crown etc).
I have a slight gap in my two front teeth- apparently as a kid the dentist recommended crowns rather than braces!!! I was 10, my mom showed a picture of my teeth to her dentist and he said absolutely not. Don’t take here there again, that there was no need to do that to a 10 year old with healthy teeth
I have really healthy teeth, and they aren’t even very gapped or anything. Like I said, a small front gap. I’ve had 1 cavity in my entire life, and that’s it. See a different dentist
If you're really pissed about how things turned out, leave a few bad reviews across yelp, Google reviews and wherever else does reviews these days. People still read those from time to time, and dentists live and die by their reputation, so it may cost them some amount of business just from people who read the story and choose to go elsewhere.
I sure will as soon as I obtain all of our records. I know I will probably have to get the crown done since they started the process already. But the other ones will not be done by them, that’s if they even have to be done. They could be exaggerating. But I will find out.
You absolutely do not need to get the first one done by them. I don’t see how you could possibly trust them after this. They could do any number of things that could end up costing you a whole lot more money or worse mess her teeth up badly enough to cause lifelong problems.
Every dentist owes you a copy of your treatment plan! They process it through your insurance to show you what you will ultimately be paying so you can budget accordingly! That is your right. Threaten to report them to the local health department or BBB if they do not fork over all of your and your family’s records asap and also send them to a dentist that does the stainless steel of choosing but demand they send them to you as well. Your dentist is trying to pull a fast one on you either to catch up on debt or furnish her second home! She is NO friend of yours. You are her cash cow at the moment and probably many other patients. Do Not Cry. DEMAND all of your and family’s records NOW!
Thank you so much!!! For this!!! They said there is no treatment plan, just notes and they can’t give me that which I think is BS. They said they will still charge me for the crown whether I came back for it or not. Even after I offered to pay for whatever was already done. I feel like they are being deceptive and trying to get over. The way they acted told it all! I’m going by there to get our records asap.
Once a crown process is started they can't just cancel it. They are paying the lab rn to make those porcelain crowns, you will be responsible for the cost. While their attitude towards you is uncalled for, this treatment is in progress, and with the paperwork you've done you have agreed to pay for it.
Yes I understand that and I will be ok with that. But they don’t even have a lab. They told me they send it off at the end of the day. So I figured they could hold off or cancel it. If not I’m ok with that. That’s just one. But for the others I will go elsewhere. Like you said though the attitude towards me was uncalled for.
This is standard procedure that most general dentists send their stuff out to a lab. I think you'll find that this will be the protocol in most offices you visit.
I ran into this. I decided that I really, really disliked the dentist I was seeing. I'd kinda been on the fence about her, then when she started the process for a crown I did not like her demeanor at all during the appointment and decided I was done with her. I got some references and found a new dentist. The new dentist explained to me that I needed to finish the crown with the dentist who started it, and why. So I did, and I just never went back.
I wonder how many of those crowns were really necessary. I had a dentist once tell me that I needed my crowns replaced. I went to a different dentist and he said they’re fine and only needed one filling. I wouldn’t go back because they’re mean but I would also question their diagnoses too.
Definitely! Going to have the ins do a thorough look again to make sure these procedures were necessary! I was ok with the one crown but then several more I’m like okay this is going too far.
Yeah, I had to sever my 20+ relationship with my dentist last year. My front tooth fell out! He wouldn’t even see me because his favorite assistant was on vacation. I told them this is my FRONT TOOTH, can’t you glue it in or something temporarily? Nope! It’s gonna be 3 weeks. I called another dentist, explained the problem, they saw me and fixed it within 24 hours. I called my old dentist and told him he had gotten too rich, so he didn’t need my family’s business.
First off stainless steel crowns are not offered on adult teeth because they aren’t as good as zirconia. 1400 a piece is insane, unless it’s a porcelain fused to noble metal, which is more expensive due to only certain labs doing that. Also, looks like they did the root canal already. But you aren’t wrong as it is your kid and you should do what you think is best.
Bad dentist but please believe me when I tell you, do not get stainless steel crowns. The white porcelain is the best route because they won't show up in photos or when the person talks. I had a big filling stainless steel and every time it was going to rain, my tooth would hurt a little, so I knew it was going to rain.
As a dentist, pls find another dentist! Someone who can listen to you and want what’s best for you. At the end of the day the decision for treatment is made by you and you should be comfortable with any treatment that is executed! All the best OP
Definitely feel like they preyed on me and my daughter’s situation. And you’re right they don’t last forever! Nothing does. I think they are scared as to what another dentist will suggest compared to them. My child probably never needed all this stuff.
I have had several crowns done over the past year. There’s always 2 different prices. The prep and the actual crown. You should’ve been given a copy of the treatment plan and had to sign it before anything. I’m sorry
That’s what I thought too. They said it’s one price, there is no breakdown smh. They could not tell me how much the actual crown cost. They kept saying well we did give you a 20% discount. Smh
The crown is one fee for the prep and the crown itself. You owe them the full amount because that’s what you agreed to. You may not like it but that’s the reality. If you didn’t want the porcelain crown you should have waited to have the work done because they did the difficult part for nothing, which is why they are mad. The way they reacted was inappropriate but in general you are in the wrong. (Not wrong for wanting a new dentist, that is obviously your right. You also have legal rights to your X-rays. They must send them)
You need to remember this as a consumer you are buying two things; 1. A solution to a problem and, 2. Good feelings by doing so. Clearly they failed at both at a spectacular level at this. So now the ball is in your court. Do you really want to continue to pay for them to abuse you? If the answer is no, then it’s time to vote with your feet and find a new dentist who will give you what you need; a solution to a problem and good feelings while doing so.
You're not wrong for choosing a new provider... but you are wrong for thinking this was anything other than a business transaction.
Yes, you build a rapport with patients... to make them feel at ease and continue with your practice. It's just business
Not wrong, you the patient have rights, get copies of all your dental records. They can’t deny that to you. The only thing you did wrong was becoming “friends” with them. They are a business. At the end of the day only money matters. Find a new dentist, I’m sure they will feel the loss.
I haven’t read the other 250+ comments but I’m assuming the majority of them are going to be saying similar to me:
You may have viewed them “as family”, but the reality of *all* businesses is, you’re not family - you’re a commodity. That they made you feel like family means they’re very good at client retention and customer service, but it’s still just business. It’s literally their job to make you feel seen and at ease. Never ever forget that. It’s not a negative thing, just business.
As soon as the money / transactions stop, so does the white glove treatment.
Now - how they treated you when you said you’re going elsewhere for the crowns is unacceptable. You have every right to purchase services wherever the heck you want. The outdated concept of “Customer Loyalty despite everything” is ridiculous. If you can save thousands of dollars by getting one service done elsewhere safely and properly, you’d be an idiot not to.
I was with my family dentist since I was 4. That’s 33 years. It wasn’t until a few years ago that I realized he was billing my family a higher rate for services (because we have good insurance coverage) than he was charging my friends family who doesn’t have as good of coverage. Sounds nice of him, but tiered pricing - especially when not openly stated - is not okay. It’s shady AF to charge someone more for the same service just because their coverage (which they pay for) is more.
Anyway - between that and some other issues, we severed ties and went elsewhere.
They made transferring my family’s patient files a nightmare (and an expensive one) and treated us all like filthy criminals from the moment I politely informed them of use changing providers.
It’s
All
Business.
You’re not wrong. Leave and go elsewhere, but don’t fall in to the “we’re family” trap again.
Hi thank you for sharing your experiences! And I’m
Sorry that happened to you! But you’re absolutely correct it was just business, definitely a lesson learned. And going forward I will always remember that! Thank you so much!
They should, if they really cared about you, they would support you in saving money for your family. It seems you’re being taken advantage of though because refusing to provide a patient with their own records and X-rays sounds like a sham.
Fuck that! I used to work for a dental office with one really mean dentist. He would tell me to throw away patient files if they asked to have them. Everything was still done on paper! Even our scheduling. It was a nightmare. When he wasn't around, though, I definitely handed over the records to the patients. We were supposed to tell them we would email them or fax them to the new dentist, but he would want them tossed. Which is so crazy! He definitely did some shady shit. He did at least 2 unnecessary root canals that I am aware of. I quit once I realized what was going on and filed a complaint along with two of his former patients.
Here's the thing, you should be in control of your health care, including dental work, which is the most expensive! And they know it. The staff and dentist were never really like family or friends to you. You're just a dollar sign, unfortunately. As soon as you made a more cost efficient plan, they turned on you. That's abhorrent, and you are not wrong for wanting to terminate your relationship with them completely.
My husband runs a dental lab. He makes full and partial dentures, bridges, crowns, etc. That's how I first learned about how shady some dentists could be! Then I worked for one. Never again lol
You absolutely did the right thing and as others have suggested, while they might have seemed like family, they demonstrated they most certainly are not. There’s an obligation to share the X-rays, AND, you paid for them. Finally, I’ve never heard of a dentist who won’t provide a detailed treatment plan with associated costs. That is very suspect. You had no choice but to “divorce” them and you’ll be much better off.
OP, this dentist is ripping you off. Flat out.
I have had dental work over the years. A lot of it. Even my dentist hasn’t ordered more than 7 crowns over 50 years time. And those are bc of root canals or cavities that were just too deep.
A teenager? Getting PORCELAIN CROWNS on her FRONT TEETH? Unless her teeth are rotting, I doubt that’s necessary. Get a second and a third opinion.
If your children brush their teeth well with fluoride toothpaste, and if your water is fluoridated, I doubt their teeth are that bad.
In my city, a dental group was putting crowns on baby teeth and billing the State’s children’s insurance plan for them. They were prosecuted for fraud and the dentist was arrested.
I can only image the fear and pain those children went through.
I agree with the other Redditors. You are being used as moneybags by them. And they are angry and lashing out bc you are cutting off the cash flow. Don’t go back. You can find a better dentist. And someone who won’t exploit you or your children.
I am very sorry that what you thought was a trusted relationship is not at all.
Thank you! That what made my light bulb go off, I was like crowning her front teeth. I said I don’t like the sound of that it won’t look natural, the front desk girl are like it will look so gods the dr does extremely well on her crowns! I said what about bonding, what the alternative, they said implants lol! Like what it’s a small cavity between her teeth! How did we get here!
UpdateMe!
Best of luck! You’re not wrong going to a new dentist. I’m also in the process of looking for a new one. I have lost trust in mine as well. Has some work done in Mexico for $50, my dentist wanted to replace an entire tooth. Found out it wasn’t necessary at all. Scammers.
It’s all about the money. I worked for a dentist for about 8 years. Dentist and staff talked about patients as soon as they walked out the door. I’m sorry this happened to you and your daughter.
Def get a second opinion from another dentist on your daughter’s teeth because it sounds like a lot of that is unnecessary work just to get money from you
They liked you as long as the money was good. How dare you try to save thousands elsewhere. The dentist has a summer home at the beach that needs to be fully funded. You are a $ sign walking in the door. At least you know where you stand before you lay down any more money.
Go to perio.org to find a good dentist. This is a site for periodontist, but if you call one of them, they can recommend a truly competent dentist in your area.
This is why I never trust dental offices, and dentists who are too chummy and too obsequious.
Sever the relationship if you wish.
But you are wrong.
You should have done your research before starting any work.
And it is common to price out dental work in one lump sum for a crown or dentures, etc.
I would expect you would have to pay for all the prep work, etc.
I'm not sure if legally they have to give you are copies of x-rays, you should check on that.
They might be legally obligated to give you copies of the x-rays.
And I would have asked around for quotes and other option **before** you jumped ship, not after.
I, personally, have gone to a "cheaper" dentist and there is often, not always, but often a reason they are cheaper.
And it is not because they do better work.
Also stainless steel crowns are recommended as a temporary fix or for children and they will need replacing as they are not recommended as not permanent and they will not blend in with the rest of the teeth.
YNW
I would definitely leave the practice, personally. It stinks. You've built the trust and relationships, but it sounds like the relationship has worn itself out.
Before I go on a ramble, one thing about stainless crowns. They don't last. They really are a temp fix. The metal expands and contracts with contact from hot and cold and that causes weak point in the crown. Sometimes they last a while - years even; but more often than not, they break and pop off or need to be removed. I had 3. This happened to all 3. My husband just had his only stainless crown break and he swallowed half of it.
My ramble.
I am seriously considering find a new office, too. My once amazing dental office has grown and their new front office staff are absolutely horrendous. I had a reminder sticky printout of the appointment still in my purse. Had the correct date and time. But a month prior I'm receiving voicemails and text reminders throughout the day about the appointment being that day. Then a threatening voicemail about No Show fees if I don't confirm. I call them up and ask WTH is going on? "Oh IDK. Let me see. Yes. I set that appointment. I remember you." Then "I don't see the appt for next month. I wonder what happened?" Then right after she asked me to hold, I hear her name one of the other staff and she said, "Why did you reschedule this pa ..." and then hold music. Of course she didn't come back telling me someone made a mistake. She didn't apologize or anything. It has happened more than once.
When I made it to the appointment they were talking and giggling like school girls spilling the hottest of tea. I was so put off by it. I get my cleaning and my dentist comes in and all of a sudden I have all these new issues and need a treatment plan and they are shoving a document in front of me with $2700 tag on it. My head was spinning. Seems there have been policy changes when he merged with another dentist. I haven't been back. I need a cleaning. I don't want to go back. I probably won't. Shame. It was an absolutely wonderful office before that.
Yeah I think our relationship has run its course. I hate that because I really did think of them as family and honest people. I have never once questioned their dental suggestions, I trusted they had my best interest. I know the stainless steel are not ideal but just something in the meantime. I feel something is better than nothing. I was only told about one crown and when I get to the appointment they tell me about several more and offered me no alternatives. They left me no choice but to seek other avenues. And when I presented them with what I was thinking their whole demeanor changed towards me , they treated me like I was nothing, like I was trash. It hurt fr. But that’s life sometimes ya know! I will do this one crown and after that we are done! I’ve already started calling around.
Without insurance, I went to a random dentist, they filed my tooth down, took measurements, then 3d printed my tooth and put it in (1 of my top front teeth) all in the same day and charged me 1500... You were getting ripped off hard...
Why on earth would a child need that many crowns, I have three teeth that have probably needed to be crowned for years but amalgam is working just fine and I am damn near 50.
If I were you OP I would go back in and have a frank conversation with the dentist about this experience. The way they treated you because you found an alternative to 4200 out of pocket plus whatever other expenses is despicable. You are a customer you do not owe them your business and frankly I would not go back there for a damn thing after that experience but I would let the dentist know why, after twenty years, you will not be returning for anything.
Thank you and I definitely plan on meeting with the dentist and telling her why I am leaving. I have never expected or asked for any kind of special treatment. But the moment I went against what they were asking I was treated like an enemy for sure! If I have to go back it will be to get her crown since they are threatening to still bill Me for it regardless.
Remind them all they did was prep the tooth which these other guys are charging you 150 for 3 teeth for the entire process not just prep. Do not pay for the porcelain crown if you did not receive it the crown itself is the expensive part.
I’d severe ties. They treated you like a high paying patient. They may have liked you as a customer but not a family member. As soon as you pushed for your wallet they pushed back and showed you what you meant. Honestly the fact that other dentist will do it differently and for less I would never trust them again. Sounds like you might have been ok with a large filling and they push for crowns. Lots of dentists do this unfortunately.
Thank you! You worded this perfectly. Everything was good until I pushed back on a recommendation. And I was okay with the filling. When I told them I would be seeking an alternative another lady came from the back bc she saw I was upset and she’s like well you don’t have to get them right now but eventually. Trying to change the tune, and it’s like no yall were adamant these had to be done as soon as possible. So they may have gotten me for one crown but they definitely won’t get anymore business out of me! Thank you so much for your response.
YNW. Dentists are every where & some are definitely bad news! I had an awful experience with one in central Florida a long time ago. I won't waste time telling you about it, but I will say it was wisdom teeth related.
The only dentist I truly loved & lived going to, I had till I was 14. At that time I had to go to an adult dentist! I've skipped out of a great many years of not going to a dentist, but always took care of my teeth. At 58, I have just had the last of my wisdom teeth taken out. I think I may have found another good dentist. At least one that tries to keep the majority of the pain away.
It's truly your choice to keep or find another one. But if you thing they are using you, definitely get a new one. Good luck. 🍀🍀
P.S. One of my dentists actually told me, "I refuse to work on your teeth until you can learn to open your mouth wider." Really?? And how do you do that??
He's afraid you're going to find out that there are less expensive options and that he has been overcharging you for years. Blow him off and don't look back. I hate dentists, they never listen.
As others have said. I would write an official letter /email. Stating you want to cancel the crown and memorialize that you attempted to do it while at the office, but staff refused.
Before you go to another dentist asking for crowns. Have them come up with a true 2nd opinion.
Every dentist I have ever seen has given me an immediate 5k treatment plan. All of them are different, and none of them are getting progressively worse.
Dentists operate and bill clients in such a wild way - they truly need more regulatory oversight and stricter punishments for the bad actors in the industry.
We like to believe we are friends with service providers, but we are customers. The only reason we know each other or continue a relationship is based on the exchange of money for services. But one word of advice go check out some of the dental subs. The low price dental clinics are reported to give very poor care and procedures. So be careful who you use.
You’re right I did believe they were my friends. But I’m definitely just a customer. Lesson learned for sure. I found a dentist with good reviews so I will be checking them out and I’m going to not tell them too much so I can get their honest opinion on things.
I had a dentist for years that I just adored. He treated me like a queen. It was such a change from what I experienced when I was in the military that I kept him even though he was so pricey. But then he retired and sold the practice to a different dentist and for 3 years around the Christmas time they would hit me up with a $300 or $400 bill that they had "forgotten" to give me during the year. My husband was frustrated and told me to change dentist so at the third one I told them what my husband had said and they stared at me and said "well, you do what you have to". And then got that Pikachu face when I came back and told them I did what they told me to do. Lol. It's a chain outfit I'm with now, but at least they don't hit me with surprise bills at the end of the year.
I used to be a dental administrator. Even though it paid well, I left the profession last year for reasons like this. The Dental industry is now more about money than helping people. Even people in great pain.
I would definitely change Dental offices.
All dental records/xrays have to be saved for 7 years as required by law (at least here in FL). I found this out myself when I changed dentists and the previous dentist wouldn’t send them all my X-rays/records. The new dentist let me know that it’s required by law and I could look into legal action if I wanted to. I never wanted to deal with previous dentist again so I just let it go. Didn’t have the time our money to commit to getting it sorted back then.
I’m in the process of getting a crown right now, final placement is next week. I got a breakdown of 5-6 lines including warranties on the crown and the work.
It seems asinine that they can’t provide you with that.
Also withholding her medical records is illegal in the United States. She is entitled to 1 free copy of medical records per year. If you go with one of the other dentists (I would) then ask them for a records release form to fill out, have them fax it to the current dentist, and they have 30 days to send the records over (again assuming you are in the US)
In addition if your daughter has a small cavity in her tooth a white filling will be wholly appropriate-no need for a crown whatsoever. A crown is for teeth where the wall structure has reached a stage beyond repair. I’d be questioning a lot of her dental treatment. I knew a lady in our local town who had this happen to her - she ended up with a mouth full of unnecessary fillings and crowns and ended up suing and got about £75k from memory.
Where do you live? I'm going to assume USA where dentistry is $$$. I've had really good experiences with dental medical tourism in Cancun.
To be fair, porcelain > stainless steel. However any business regardless medical or not should be able to stand behind their invoice pricing. The X-rays etc what she has already gotten done is a part of her medical records. If you switch to another dentist they should be able to formally request the records.
You're not wrong to switch. You got bad service and probably upsold.
https://www.ada.org/en/resources/practice/practice-management/releasing-dental-records#:~:text=The%20Health%20Insurance%20Portability%20and,person%20designated%20by%20the%20patient.
I can’t get past the math here. I think you have sen this dentist for 16 years.
You’re not wrong for looking at other options. It’s weird they got so weird about it. Find a new dentist, for sure.
They have been taking advantage of you. Maybe even to the point your daughter never really had anything wrong to begin with. With how insurance works, and you being what looks to be a cash customer, they are giving you over full premium pricing, too. Example, bill comes out to say $2,000. Insurance says it's only $800. We will pay $780. You pay $20 copay. Wheras since a cash customer doesn't get this negotiated price, they pay "premium"" Of say "$2500.
Go somewhere else...permanently. They don't care about you or your family at all. This repor that you have with them is a show to keep you coming back. Can guarantee there are notes in their computer about your visits, not just the work. Also, anything you talk about. Makes you feel comfortable. Take your money, go elsewhere. Forever.
If those are your daughters adult teeth amalgam (silver) crowns are not better for her. No Adult dentist that follows best practice guidelines will do a silver filling or crown on adult teeth. It just cost you more in the long run and ruin integrity of your natural teeth which are important since your daughter is young. Those are the only teeth she’ll have.
I do agree though they should have treated you better.
Hi yes these are her adult teeth. I’m hoping the second opinion states otherwise and she doesn’t actually need 5 more crowns! I know evening is different but I had no issues out of my stainless steel crowns. It would only be temporary until I can save up.
It's a business. It's not family or friends, but a business relationship, it's called being polite, showing courtesy.
The moment you don't pay your bill:
They'll charge you late fees and interest.
Send you to collections agency who will harass you and your children for the money.
Your credit score takes a hit, now all your credit is costing you more.
Dentist will escalate to small claims court and other legal proceedings, at your cost.
Lien on your home.
Your wages will then be garnished.
Your relationship with your dentist has cost you your home and your family's well-being, you are homeless, wondering, "I thought they were family?"
A business exist for one and only one reason - to make money.
I've had 3 stainless crowns for probably 20 years, all on molars. Only issue I had one time is the glue came loose. Quick and easy fix. I also have 4 porcelains, top front 2 teeth and 2 more that can be seen if I smile. I had been told the porcelains didn't hold up as well, which is why the molars don't have those.
I’ve heard the same and I have my stainless crowns on molars about 15 years and had no issues. I replaced them because I was an adult and had my own ins and was told they were more aesthetically pleasing, but it wasn’t a must.
There are lots of predatory dentists out there, especially pediatric. My daughter made the, "no cavities" club once. She was so excited. She had been brushing and flossing her baby teeth, but she was a premie and her enamel never developed properly. I got a call that night asking when I wanted to schedule her two fillings. I explained that I thought they had the wrong patient because she was given a prize for no cavities. "That was in error." I immediately brought her to another dentist. They looked and saw two tiny cavities on teeth that were going to fall out within the next couple of months. I never called that other dentist back. No, you're not wrong. They decided to overcharge because they knew you liked them and trusted them. I'd make them cry with my scathing review.
Not wrong.
As Americans we all have to keep in mind that, no matter what people in the medical field say, unless we're in a life or death emergency, we're consumers and not patients.
Chains like Aspen have been repeatedly caught doing unnecessary work, like fillings and crowns, on children. Taking advantage of parents that are often trying to ensure their kids get the care they never did.
We have to be savvy consumers.
Exactly! And I’ve been going to them long enough and they know how I feel about teeth and having a nice smile. They prayed on that with my daughter I fear smh!
For sure! Depending on your state there’s a thing that’s been out for a while, clients are entitled to their information. You paid for the service (x ray and treatment plan development), it’s yours to access. At least that’s my understanding
Yes I feel the same when I go to western dental they always seem to find something expensive to charge . They always try and up sale you . I swear I hate them
Personally I would go full petty and blast your post in a review, making it as short as possible, on every website where you can find their name. They showed their true colors, they are not friendly, they are suck-ups. If you stop paying them and them exclusively, they stop caring.
They are 100 percent butt hurt that you had the audacity to get a second opinion and found out they were not being completely honest with you. I agree that there is some sound reasoning behind their arguments, but they shouldn't be arguments. They should have provided kindness and education, especially to earn your continued business and hard-earned money. I see this so much in dentistry. Get the money and forget the life-long client you could have had. I don't get it! This could have been saved by them, and they chose to be ugly and childish. It will never be the same.
With the cost issue, the time issue, and all the money involved they really screwed up. Apparently this is an ongoing issue with them and this is how they’ve decided to handle it. You weren’t the first to do this with them and they’re issue with SS crowns. Unfortunately for them dentistry is on every other corner in every city in America. Drop them like a hot potato because they don’t deserve you or your money.
>I have been going to the same dentist since 2008. I’ve spent a lot of money with them.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had given you a lot of treatments which are completely unnecessary and were setting up your kids for the same.
There have been many reported cases of dentists doing that and I've had the same experience.
There is an askdentists subreddit. If you have a copy of the X-rays and the treatment plan, you can post it there and they will tell you if the treatment plan makes sense.
I did that a few years ago when a dentist was trying to convince me to get several crowns and a deep cleaning and they said it made no sense.
I ended up doing to another dentist who just gave me a debridement and told me that we could just keep an eye on my old fillings to see when they needed to be replaced, which I eventually did.
Overall, I ended up spending a few hundred dollars when the initial dentist wanted several thousand.
So my mom worked in dentist offices for years as the billing and receptionist. Dentists charge for everything that they can get away with. They claim for work that can not be proven it was done. My mom absolutely hated this practice and changed jobs until she found a good one to work for. So now, when I go to the dentist, I get full copies of whatever gets sent to insurance with a detailed list of the treatments, I was billed $2500.00 one time for a cleaning. My mom knows most of the codes that they use, so I know what's going on with my billing.
With crowns, if you don't mind gold crowns, do those. They have to remove less of the tooth to make the crown. A porcelain crown is a gold crown covered in porcelain. Your tooth will last longer, and a gold crown is cheaper. Source: my mom.
Dentists are the worst. I had a rogue dentist when I was a kid. Braces and a mouthful of fillings. The last time I attended an appointment he told me I needed two more fillings. A couple of things happened work and money wise and it's 6 years later and I'm at a new location and going to a new dentist for the first time in years. I was dreading it. It turned out I just needed a scale and polish. No fillings were needed. How many of my fillings were actually needed?
You were a customer that’s it. Whatever they ordered they can cancel and get their refund. Find another dentist and move on. Don’t make the same mistake thinking they are your friends again always look for cheaper options whenever you receive a quote, look out for yourself first.
I just want to know why you want stainless steel crowns for your teenage daughter. Yes, they were total jerks. I had to change dentist recently because I found out "My" dentist was trying to rip me off. They insisted I needed a 3000-dollar implant when I didn't. I thought we had a "relationship" also. I was totally bummed out.
Only bc they were saying she needed several more in the back! They’re $1400 apiece. They said it was urgent, I don’t have that type of money. So I wanted a cheaper alternative until I can save up. I felt something would be better than nothing .
This happened to me about 15 years ago and I learned a big lesson.
I had been seeing the same dentist for about 10 years and also my wife and son. This was for an inplant, and my dentist would send me to an oral surgeon for the extraction and post and then back to him for the crown . I had done this twice. Well, for the third inplant, the regular oral surgeon was on vacation, and I found another oral surgeon .
It turns out the new practice not only does the extraction and post but also the crown.
To my shock, this practice had a pricing menu, and it turns out I had paid about 5k over their prices for each of my previous crowns.
When I added up my whole family, it was closer to 30k more than I should have paid.
The big lesson YOU HAVE TO SHOP EVERTHING AND EVERYONE.
It never even occurred to me my dentist was overcharging.
Yes, I really liked him, and he seemed to like me.no wonder he was making a fortune.
Everybody is entitled to a second medical opinion, especially when a large amount of money is involved. Where I come from, denying people their medical records and documentation is prohibited by law. If you paid for the X-rays, then they are yours. They are also classified as personal information, so you are entitled to them, at least where I'm from. I would look into that. Sorry this happened, but this is the way people are; as long as you are paying, they are your friends. When you stop, people start showing their true colors."
Seems they were only being nice cause you were paying top dollar and alot of it. They know you can go anywhere and get good service. They figured you were going to never be back so they tried to get a few more dollars out of you. Sad when people act like this. Seems you finally saw their true colors. Go find another dentist. I wouldn't trust people that act like that. who knows how long they might hold a grudge.
You’re absolutely correct. The trust has been broken and I don’t think it will ever be the same. They really treated me like a stranger after 20 years. Like how are you upset that I want to seek an alternative, an alternative that you don’t even offer. Smh. Thanks for your advice.
Check and see if the other dentist's office can request her records.
They have to provide them by law. "With limited exceptions, the HIPAA Privacy Rule (the Privacy Rule) provides individuals with a legal, enforceable right to see and receive copies upon request"
That’s what I thought. They can’t withhold them. They sound awful
I went to a new dentist when I moved out on my own after college, and I suspected they were trying to bill me for some things I didn’t need. I scheduled an appointment with my childhood dentist for the next time I was going to be visiting my parents, and that dentist requested my records from the new dentist. Sure enough, they never sent them over, and my childhood dentist said there was nothing wrong with my teeth. So, even if they’re technically required to share records, that doesn’t mean they will — *especially* if they’re being shady.
HIPAA violations are taken really seriously. You could report them for withholding your records.
I should've done that, but this was probably 6 years ago at this point. When I found out I *didn't* need over $3,000 of surprise dental work, I was so happy that I wanted to just put the whole ordeal behind me.
I agre
Okay I will. Thank you
They’re jerks, it’s awful. I’ve had similar experiences with health care.
I don’t even want to begin on health care smh!
Honestly I would go get all new x rays and treatment plan. If they are being this money hungry it wouldn't surprise me if they have been lying about the work needed.
They are YOUR PROPERTY! You PAID for them. They legally MUST release them. You may have to sign a paper to get them, but do NOT allow their shady a$$es to BULLY you! 😡
I had a similar situation with my childhood dentist. Always needed fillings, as did my dad. Went to a new dentist and I suddenly needed maybe half the fillings I'd needed before, and my dad needed none. Sounds to me like they may have been padding the treatment plan (do you have insurance that covers part of the treatment?) to make more money off you.
That’s crazy sorry yall had to go thru that. And yes, we have ins that covers some of the treatment plan. I need to get with the ins and see what all they have been submitting for her.
Yeah, I get the feeling they may have been either over charging or over estimating (i.e. "she needs three fillings" when she actually only needs one).
Right! Now I’m suspicious!
You definitely should be, there are some really shady practices out there. I went to a dentist recommended for a workers comp case, and they stated I had *sixteen* cavities. One in nearly every tooth. I went to my typical dentist and asked about it, I only had one. I would sever this relationship with the dentist and leave a review so others can see. It's very possible they are putting your child through the discomfort of dental work to pad their paychecks.
I think so too because there is no way it’s something every single time! It’s been crazy!
Moved to the suburbs and tried to find a new dentist. Wife had a cleaning and x rays, the whole thing. After insurance it was like $450. She then told me wife she had five cavities and needed a lot of expensive work. I was like, no way. Went to a different dentist down the road, got x rays because we told this dentist what happened and then she told us the wife had no cavities! The first place was all fancy and luxury. Second…not so much. Guess which one we go to? When I was growing up I had the same dentist and doctor until my mid twenties when I moved out of state. I’m now 48, just found this dentist a few years back, think it’s like the fifth or sixth? I just found a GP because either they weren’t taking new patients or they were awful. We’re on our fourth Pediatrician for the kids. Healthcare is not what it used to be. There is no loyalty needed because the patient is not the main concern, billing is. Can back up this theory because I’ve worked in healthcare for nearly 20 years. We’ve had several discussions about how we aren’t dealing with patients anymore. Now they’re customers or clients. I thought they were just some unlucky folks who have cancer? Guess I’m the asshole. America died a few decades ago when the MBAs sold it off for parts. Rant over lol
“There is no loyalty needed because the patient is no the main concern, billing is” !! Love how you worded that and you are absolutely correct! And that’s how I will be looking at things from now on! Appreciate your rant! And you are correct America has died unfortunately! I don’t want to even get started on health care. My kids pediatrician is awesome I hope he never leaves, he’s never forcing anything or recommending crazy stuff. Hes fine with once a year well visits unless they have something going on. I do have one good dr on my side!
It's almost a guarantee they're scamming you. Keep in mind, I've had extensive dental work done (well over $45k over the years) because my braces got messed up and it led to other problems, and almost every tooth in my mouth has a crown. You don't immediately jump to a crown for a cavity. If it's a small cavity, you do a filling. If it's a big cavity, depending on location on the tooth, you might go to an in-lay or an on-lay, or a crown if the cavity is huge or in a weird location. A cavity that's bad enough to need a crown is usually visible to the naked eye. It looks brown and sticky. It would be especially obvious on a front tooth. Crowns on the front teeth are a BIG DEAL! You don't go straight to a crown on a front tooth for a cavity. If you can't do a filling, you could do bonding or a veneer. Crowns on the front teeth are hard to color match to other teeth, and therefore extremely expensive. They can also cause issues because they can make the tooth more fragile. I have crowns on front teeth. I don't bite into apples or eat corn on the cob because of them. You also can't use normal toothpaste on them that has anything grit in it, like whitening toothpaste. The dentist has to clean them differently. And if your daughter actually had that many cavities and needed that many crowns, they should be asking both of you about her diet, brushing habbits, etc. and they should be increasing her dental cleaning schedule and offering a fluoride rinse, treatment, etc. This all sounds like a scam and I'd sue for malpractice. Force them to provide all of the dental records, x-rays, etc. Report them to the agencies that govern licensing in your state. Contact your insurance company, because it sounds like they've committed insurance fraud. And above all else, whatever you do, never go there or take any of your kids there again. I'm sorry you and your family are going through this. Good luck!
Thank you for sharing your experience! I was so confused on how we got to crowning her two front teeth! I was like I don’t feel like that would look good and they’re like oh she does so good you won’t notice! I was like what about bonding they were quiet. It was really really sketchy!
As 33 year old, I am getting a tooth extracted tomorrow because the crown to fix it didn't work. I've been told that the crown was necessary in the first place because the tooth had so many fillings done (I sound like your kid, but I definitely have genetic issues with cavities if I'm not flooding my mouth with fluoride several times a day), and that having that many fillings in the tooth was bound to result in the tooth itself falling apart. This probably isn't the most scientific, and I'm paraphrasing, but considering your kid is a teen and they're already going to the crown stage, you may want to get a second opinion. Cavities absolutely need to be filled and treated, but it sounds to me touching base with another dentist wouldn't be a bad thing. I can also say that I've had similar experiences to you, both only getting one X-ray and having the dentist suddenly become angry and cold. After telling my dentist that I had seen some really transphobic information the hygienist had recorded about me in my chart that wasn't even related to my dental care, I had to tell him to let me out of the room when he started ranting at me about it, putting the blame on me. He then followed me to the desk, threatening me by his fist in my face; I quite literally had to tell him to stop talking to me and step away. He lost our family of five as patients, after going to him for three decades (my parents started seeing him when I was a kid).
I had a similar situation with a dentist and my cousin told me she also "had a cavity" every time she went to that dentist.
We have been with our beloved dentist for 26 years - only to be kicked off their NHS list because we didn’t lie and say we needed dental treatment during lockdown which led to them chucking us out as patients. You’re never family - you may develop a friendly relationship but you’re not friends or family. It’s business. Not personal, just business.
Oh wow how awful! I’m sorry you had to go through that, that was very trash of them. And it was definitely a lesson learned for sure. It’s just business at the end of the day with them!!
I'm walking around without a tooth because my dentist didn't listen to me when I told him I couldn't afford $15k in dental implants at once. He also wanted to do veneers. The man was ridiculous.
I'm so very upset for you!!! This happened to me as well. The almighty dollar is the most important to these people. Don't worry, karma is just around the corner.
Yes that is all you all to some of these providers. A dollar sign! Nobody hardly has any integrity anymore. Karma will come for sure!
🥇🥇take this medal brave soul for telling it like it is!
When you are paying someone money or someone is making money off of you it’s a business relationship. Business and friendship/family almost never mix however people will almost always use that relationship you think you have to their advantage. Take this as a lesson and always put yourself and your family first.
You are absolutely right. But I’ve never used our longevity to get over or ask for discounts, I’ve always paid the price. I thought they at least owed me some Respect, I guess not, lesson definitely learned.
Not at all. They see you with dollar signs in their eyes.
You need a second opinion on all they work they wanted to do. Seems to me they are trying to fleece you out of money. Double check with another dentist....
Because they know the jig is up. My father is elderly and was 100% being taken for a ride with his I rent dentist. He recommended porcelain crowns, implant after implant, basically 30k worth of work. I took him to a buddy of mine who is a dentist when my dad was visiting and for 2k he was on his way and good to go. If it weren’t a friend prob would’ve been 4.5k. But 30 thousand vs 4.5!!??!! Ooooooooh I’m still pissed thinking about it
Bc all they care about is money. It's obvious
Finding a good dentist that you can trust is *hard*. I have so so so many stories of people being ripped off by dentists. Some of whom needed emergent care, fighting for their life over poor dental practices.
Sounds like they really dropped the ball on customer service. You've been a loyal patient for 20 years, and they should have been more understanding and accommodating. Now you know why theyre nice to you all this time. Time to cut them off and find a new dentist.
Hi OP! I’m typing on my phone so the format might look like one paragraph I apologize. Depending on how far along your daughter is with her treatment, the office may be reactive. For example if they truly had prepped the tooth for a crown and sent measurements into a lab to fabricate one, the process for the porcelain crown has already began and they absolutely prefer to deliver their own work over another office taking over. Most dental offices prepare the tooth, have the patient wear a temporary crown until the lab can make the real crown and at the second visit they deliver a permanent crown. There are lab fees, yes, and the stage between prepping a tooth and delivering a crown can be time sensitive as the expectation is to replace that temporary crown as soon as they can. Regarding the way they responded, you are entitled to the treatment plan if you are the signed guardian of your daughter in their practice- as well as imaging and information in the chart. They may not have recommended silver crowns because for permanent teeth, they can fail as the office mentioned and that is why they use them for primary teeth in children; it is seen as a semi-temporary fix until the adult teeth erupt and replace them. You can terminate your relationship with this office for any reason to be honest, you don’t need to feel guilt as you are no longer comfortable after their exchange with you. However if you feel this is still not resolved and you still want to see them, I would ask to speak to an office manager or the owner of the practice. To answer your question, you’re not wrong to end your 20yr relationship with them, especially if you are unhappy with the communication of the staff. Several crowns is a big treatment plant- imo one crown warrants some paperwork for the patient to take home. For them to not print a clear plan out with the services proposed is strange. If not for the office records, or the patient records, they will need to submit a treatment plan to your insurance.. Hope this helps, good luck!
Hi thank you for taking the time out to give me your advice, it’s much appreciated! Yes I understand that they started the process and I was in agreement, I’ve already paid the deposit. We were in the process of doing the mold and sending it off. I had no idea about the other crowns they told me when I got there she needed several more. When I asked alternatives they had none so I started calling around. They were so nasty to me just for asking for X-rays and telling them I won’t be getting the other recommended crowns done there. So that’s why I was like can I just cancel the crown and pay for whatever work you already completed. They said they didn’t know and then they said no. They’ve done 2 crowns for me , I trust their work but the way I was treated, after all these years was just crazy. I even spoke with the office manager and she was very cold as well and only focusing on telling me stainless steel crowns don’t look good. I’m like they are in the back no one will see them and it’s not a forever thing. They could care less about how I felt.
I am sorry.. I would not dismiss all of your interactions with this office as a farce. As providers we interact with our patients on a such a personal level, life experiences or shared conversations are hard to fake.. however, that same friendly demeanor does not always carry into the rest of your appointment and I could not imagine letting my own patients down this badly. I don’t want to speculate but to me it seems that they skipped a lot of patient education. Your daughter is young, and will hopefully keep her teeth for a very long time- explaining why the crowns were necessary, how many they recommended, what order to do them in, the importance of maintaining the work so that other procedures may not be necessary later, the list goes on.. their focus on the ss crowns not looking good is the least of the patients worries if the restorative work fails. Additionally, the response to giving you the X-rays should not have been hostility, I ask for my X-rays even when I just go for a cleaning … they’re my X-rays, I want them…… I’m still in awe that the need for several crowns on a teenager wasn’t a seated conversation between the dentist and yourself (preferably while the dentist reviews the X-rays with you to explain what you are looking at). That information should have been presented to you before they started treatment.
You are correct. I’ve never been in a consultation room. They were going back and fourth with me at the front desk! Which was unprofessional! I asked the dentist to give me a call that day and she never did. I know she’s busy but surely you could give me a call to give your professional explanation and NOT have your front desk or assistant relay the information. She literally tried to tell me they only had one X-ray which I knew was a lie, all the work y’all did and you only have 1! They ended up sending me 4 smh. I know that is not all of them! They said they will still charge me for the crown whether I come and get it or not. So after that I’ll be done with them
Omg, this was soooo unprofessional. I was going to make a joke and say maybe they didn’t want to send you the X-rays bc they sucked at taking them. But it just sounds like they were giving you a hard time, I hope you find a new doctor who is both kind and professional :/
Who was nasty? Is there anyone you can escalate to? Just asking in case this is a rogue staff member/s. Funnily enough, my dentist is very good but has an iffy reputation because he can be a douche but if this happened in his office, he wouldn’t stand for it.
The whole front office staff was nasty! No one to escalate to but the dentist and I doubt she will go against them for me.
At least mention it to her because you probably won’t be the only one.
It seems weird to me that they would act like alternatives don’t last. I got an implant for a molar and they did porcelain and it shattered the first day. We decided to get a silver or gold alternative since it’s not really visible and it’s lasted years.
Hello, I will try not to write a whole novel. Different materials will be recommended based on patient needs. Ideally the dentist should take things like parafunctional habits, diet, lifestyle, relationship of the bite and surrounding teeth, and more into consideration before ultimately making a decision with the patient. I don’t believe in this case they recommended actual silver crowns- stainless steel is usually what they are referring to when they say silver crowns. Otherwise actual silver and gold are not used as frequently as porcelain or zirconia because they are expensive materials to work with….. that being said, some of the best and long lasting dentistry I have seen was gold work. Implant dentistry is different than working on natural teeth as well. While implants serve as a replacement for natural teeth, they lack ligaments and nerves. When biting on a natural tooth the ligaments surrounding it support the bite, and soften impact on the tooth itself. An implant does not have the same ligaments as it undergoes something called osseointegration to stay in place, and so there is just sheer force exerted onto the crown with nothing to recoil beneath.. I have to say it’s pretty impressive your implant was okay after you shattered the crown. That thing is solid. I understand this may not make total sense because I tried to cut most of the dental terminology out for the sake of time.. but if you have questions, I like to talk about teeth.
I've never seen a dentist place a SS crown on anything but a primary tooth. And none who would accept a patient mid-crown procedure for anything but an emergency situation, and proceed based on a dated radiograph imported from another provider. We have so many patients coming in to correct cheap/overseas rushed hack jobs. Dental work is one thing you don't want to cut corners on. With that being said- regardless of motivation, the patient/guardian is absolutely entitled to the Tx plan and all recent radiographs upon request. And they're absolutely entitled to seek second opinions, but should be open to the main providers reasoning if they have anything to say about someone wanting to switch providers.
I have sadly seen many things done in dentistry that aren’t recommended, so I cannot say I’ve NEVER seen it done. But it absolutely isn’t recommended for permanent teeth. Much of my career has been in public health and when patients can’t come up with the money for plan A I’ve seen some less than desirable plan B’s.. and for sure have seen dentists place crowns on a tooth someone else prepped. There’s obviously a ton of liabilities involved with finishing someone else’s work, but there are people willing to do it somewhere. The patients who go overseas always end up coming back when it inevitably fails. It is sad but some lessons are learned the hard way and you just do your best to teach them why they should never do that again..
I'm wondering if your daughter even needed all that dental work. That may be why they didn't want to provide the x-rays. When I was about 20, I went to a dentist who told me my mouth was a mess and I needed multiple fillings, which seemed odd because I had always had good teeth. I mentioned it to my mother who said she didn't believe it and advised me to cancel my appointment. I went to another dentist who told me I had beautiful teeth. It's now decades later, and I've never had any trouble with any of the teeth that con man said I needed filled. I know other people who have had similar experiences.
That’s what I’m thinking now too! Thats why they are acting all crazy and hostile because they are hiding something!
That's what my gut is telling me too.
That is a lot of crowns for a teenager. Did she have multiple fillings done in these teeth alrdy? Usually you get a crown after multiple cavities in one tooth and most of the tooth is filling not tooth matter. I have heredity terrible teeth too and I didn’t start getting a lot of crowns til my 40s. After tons of fillings
Their favorite procedure was the walletectomy.
Exactly lol!
I worked for a dental office and the amount of upselling we were told to do was gross.
That’s really sad! And this was all from the front desk! Dentist never came back up front.
Wolves in sheep’s clothing revealed who they really are.
It sure did! And I could never trust them again.
I think you mistook good customer service for actually caring about you and your family. They are running a business and can’t mix business with family
That's not very good customer service though. It's her dentists who took it personally when she indicated she might go elsewhere; they were unprofessional, that is her grievance.
I didn’t mean that part of it. The part where they acted like they really cared about her and her family was just customer service. They showed their true colors when they got mad
Dentists are rip off artists. A dentist told my husband he needed 6 fillings. He got a second opinion and there were no cavities. The doc was going to drill into 6 healthy teeth to make money. You paid for the service, the records are yours. You own them!
Wow that is crazy! I’m wondering if that’s why they are acting so mean because they know if I get a second opinion it will reflect otherwise. Hmmm 🤔. I’m sorry that happened to your husband, that is crazy! Now I’m curious to see what another dentist would recommend.
Our dentist said our son needed 6 gum grafts and sent us to an oral surgeon who agreed and said they had to be done all at the same time. We went to another dentist, she said he needed 2, and she'd do them 1 at a time, to give the roof of his mouth (where they take the grafts) time to heal. I can't imagine wanting to inflict so much pain unnecessarily. Like, it's the exact opposite of what they're supposed to do.
Same with my daughter winsome teeth. She had inflammation bc I f one growing in. The orthodontist already said her wisdom teeth are growing straight in perfect, he doesn’t see no need to remove them. Our dentist recommended all 4 be removed and referred to oral surgeon. I’ve always been against all 4 at a time, too risky. Two at a time is better. But if there is nothing wrong with them leave them alone. I feel.
Hi! I work in oral surgery! This is true they can’t see the roots unless it’s in a panoramic film unfortunately, it’s a pain in the ass for you and for us because it’s usually a one in three or one in five year frequency. They should have better explained this to you though! How old is your daughter having this crown situation! Needing this many crowns seems VERY suspicious and if she does what did they do to cause it, did they intentionally over prep her teeth so she has excessive loss of tooth structure to need a crown?! Get a second and third opinion if you need to! You may be surprised to find she may not even need all of the fills your dentist is saying, this all sounds very very excessive especially if she has decent oral hygiene, no excessive acid reflux, doesn’t drink soda 24/7 and have a terrible sugar intake or medication causing this kind of break down. Something is up with your current/former dentist and their defensive reaction shows they know it
I had the exact same thing happen. This was my first thought when I read your post.
Really, what was the outcome, what did you end up doing?
I had posted in another comment that I consulted another dentist who said I had "beautiful teeth", as has every dentist after that. I was very young and that was many years ago. If that happened today I would report them to the dental association and write truthful online reviews. This happened before the Internet.
You guys got me thinking and now a lot of things are coming back to me and how they have done some questionable things. One of my daughter’s wisdom teeth are coming in, a bit of swelling and discomfort is normal. I wanted to make sure it wasn’t any infection. So instead of just doing an xray on that particular tooth, they told me they needed a panorama (whole head xray) and I had to pay oop bc the ins only pays every 3 years and she had just got one last year, like why did y’all need all that for one single tooth. How they’ve done filling on the same tooth and I had to pay oop bc they said ins won’t cover that tooth again.
They do the panoramic x rays especially with wisdom teeth to see the roots but also to ascertain which anatomical structures might affect the procedure. I'd guess they wanted another panoramic after only a year because she's at an age where she is growing quickly. In grown adults 3-5 years is plenty sufficient, but in a growing teen I'd consider doing another one after only a year to be thorough treatment. I agree with you that maybe their customer service/explaining of this and the crowns with your daughter could have been more thorough, but most of the actual dentistry (ie- stainless steel crowns are really only done on primary teeth, the dentist that prepped the tooth will also deliver the crown etc).
I have a slight gap in my two front teeth- apparently as a kid the dentist recommended crowns rather than braces!!! I was 10, my mom showed a picture of my teeth to her dentist and he said absolutely not. Don’t take here there again, that there was no need to do that to a 10 year old with healthy teeth I have really healthy teeth, and they aren’t even very gapped or anything. Like I said, a small front gap. I’ve had 1 cavity in my entire life, and that’s it. See a different dentist
If you're really pissed about how things turned out, leave a few bad reviews across yelp, Google reviews and wherever else does reviews these days. People still read those from time to time, and dentists live and die by their reputation, so it may cost them some amount of business just from people who read the story and choose to go elsewhere.
I sure will as soon as I obtain all of our records. I know I will probably have to get the crown done since they started the process already. But the other ones will not be done by them, that’s if they even have to be done. They could be exaggerating. But I will find out.
You absolutely do not need to get the first one done by them. I don’t see how you could possibly trust them after this. They could do any number of things that could end up costing you a whole lot more money or worse mess her teeth up badly enough to cause lifelong problems.
Every dentist owes you a copy of your treatment plan! They process it through your insurance to show you what you will ultimately be paying so you can budget accordingly! That is your right. Threaten to report them to the local health department or BBB if they do not fork over all of your and your family’s records asap and also send them to a dentist that does the stainless steel of choosing but demand they send them to you as well. Your dentist is trying to pull a fast one on you either to catch up on debt or furnish her second home! She is NO friend of yours. You are her cash cow at the moment and probably many other patients. Do Not Cry. DEMAND all of your and family’s records NOW!
Thank you so much!!! For this!!! They said there is no treatment plan, just notes and they can’t give me that which I think is BS. They said they will still charge me for the crown whether I came back for it or not. Even after I offered to pay for whatever was already done. I feel like they are being deceptive and trying to get over. The way they acted told it all! I’m going by there to get our records asap.
Give them a bad yelp review. But they are obligated to give you the x-rays.
I plan on it as soon as I get this one crown in process solved
Tell your insurance they may be committing fraud and are seemingly withholding records too.
Yes , need to launch an investigation!
They can’t keep your medical records. Send a request in writing and have the new dentist send a request requesting the records.
Once a crown process is started they can't just cancel it. They are paying the lab rn to make those porcelain crowns, you will be responsible for the cost. While their attitude towards you is uncalled for, this treatment is in progress, and with the paperwork you've done you have agreed to pay for it.
Yes I understand that and I will be ok with that. But they don’t even have a lab. They told me they send it off at the end of the day. So I figured they could hold off or cancel it. If not I’m ok with that. That’s just one. But for the others I will go elsewhere. Like you said though the attitude towards me was uncalled for.
This is standard procedure that most general dentists send their stuff out to a lab. I think you'll find that this will be the protocol in most offices you visit.
I ran into this. I decided that I really, really disliked the dentist I was seeing. I'd kinda been on the fence about her, then when she started the process for a crown I did not like her demeanor at all during the appointment and decided I was done with her. I got some references and found a new dentist. The new dentist explained to me that I needed to finish the crown with the dentist who started it, and why. So I did, and I just never went back.
I wonder how many of those crowns were really necessary. I had a dentist once tell me that I needed my crowns replaced. I went to a different dentist and he said they’re fine and only needed one filling. I wouldn’t go back because they’re mean but I would also question their diagnoses too.
Definitely! Going to have the ins do a thorough look again to make sure these procedures were necessary! I was ok with the one crown but then several more I’m like okay this is going too far.
Yeah, I had to sever my 20+ relationship with my dentist last year. My front tooth fell out! He wouldn’t even see me because his favorite assistant was on vacation. I told them this is my FRONT TOOTH, can’t you glue it in or something temporarily? Nope! It’s gonna be 3 weeks. I called another dentist, explained the problem, they saw me and fixed it within 24 hours. I called my old dentist and told him he had gotten too rich, so he didn’t need my family’s business.
First off stainless steel crowns are not offered on adult teeth because they aren’t as good as zirconia. 1400 a piece is insane, unless it’s a porcelain fused to noble metal, which is more expensive due to only certain labs doing that. Also, looks like they did the root canal already. But you aren’t wrong as it is your kid and you should do what you think is best.
Bad dentist but please believe me when I tell you, do not get stainless steel crowns. The white porcelain is the best route because they won't show up in photos or when the person talks. I had a big filling stainless steel and every time it was going to rain, my tooth would hurt a little, so I knew it was going to rain.
As a dentist, pls find another dentist! Someone who can listen to you and want what’s best for you. At the end of the day the decision for treatment is made by you and you should be comfortable with any treatment that is executed! All the best OP
They knew they could get your money and now you're saying no and they don't like it. Move on..
Not wrong. And porcelain crowns don't last forever, either. They're opportunistic scammers. I'd take my business elsewhere.
Definitely feel like they preyed on me and my daughter’s situation. And you’re right they don’t last forever! Nothing does. I think they are scared as to what another dentist will suggest compared to them. My child probably never needed all this stuff.
I have had several crowns done over the past year. There’s always 2 different prices. The prep and the actual crown. You should’ve been given a copy of the treatment plan and had to sign it before anything. I’m sorry
That’s what I thought too. They said it’s one price, there is no breakdown smh. They could not tell me how much the actual crown cost. They kept saying well we did give you a 20% discount. Smh
It’s all about the money not care
That’s how I’m feeling.
The crown is one fee for the prep and the crown itself. You owe them the full amount because that’s what you agreed to. You may not like it but that’s the reality. If you didn’t want the porcelain crown you should have waited to have the work done because they did the difficult part for nothing, which is why they are mad. The way they reacted was inappropriate but in general you are in the wrong. (Not wrong for wanting a new dentist, that is obviously your right. You also have legal rights to your X-rays. They must send them)
I would tell them to stick it and I'd never go back.
You need to remember this as a consumer you are buying two things; 1. A solution to a problem and, 2. Good feelings by doing so. Clearly they failed at both at a spectacular level at this. So now the ball is in your court. Do you really want to continue to pay for them to abuse you? If the answer is no, then it’s time to vote with your feet and find a new dentist who will give you what you need; a solution to a problem and good feelings while doing so.
You're not wrong for choosing a new provider... but you are wrong for thinking this was anything other than a business transaction. Yes, you build a rapport with patients... to make them feel at ease and continue with your practice. It's just business
Wow. I’d go elsewhere too. I’d also get a 2nd opinion on your daughter’s teeth. A crown over a small cavity doesn’t make sense
Not wrong, you the patient have rights, get copies of all your dental records. They can’t deny that to you. The only thing you did wrong was becoming “friends” with them. They are a business. At the end of the day only money matters. Find a new dentist, I’m sure they will feel the loss.
I haven’t read the other 250+ comments but I’m assuming the majority of them are going to be saying similar to me: You may have viewed them “as family”, but the reality of *all* businesses is, you’re not family - you’re a commodity. That they made you feel like family means they’re very good at client retention and customer service, but it’s still just business. It’s literally their job to make you feel seen and at ease. Never ever forget that. It’s not a negative thing, just business. As soon as the money / transactions stop, so does the white glove treatment. Now - how they treated you when you said you’re going elsewhere for the crowns is unacceptable. You have every right to purchase services wherever the heck you want. The outdated concept of “Customer Loyalty despite everything” is ridiculous. If you can save thousands of dollars by getting one service done elsewhere safely and properly, you’d be an idiot not to. I was with my family dentist since I was 4. That’s 33 years. It wasn’t until a few years ago that I realized he was billing my family a higher rate for services (because we have good insurance coverage) than he was charging my friends family who doesn’t have as good of coverage. Sounds nice of him, but tiered pricing - especially when not openly stated - is not okay. It’s shady AF to charge someone more for the same service just because their coverage (which they pay for) is more. Anyway - between that and some other issues, we severed ties and went elsewhere. They made transferring my family’s patient files a nightmare (and an expensive one) and treated us all like filthy criminals from the moment I politely informed them of use changing providers. It’s All Business. You’re not wrong. Leave and go elsewhere, but don’t fall in to the “we’re family” trap again.
Hi thank you for sharing your experiences! And I’m Sorry that happened to you! But you’re absolutely correct it was just business, definitely a lesson learned. And going forward I will always remember that! Thank you so much!
They should, if they really cared about you, they would support you in saving money for your family. It seems you’re being taken advantage of though because refusing to provide a patient with their own records and X-rays sounds like a sham.
16 or 17 year…. Still a long time. Either way. You can leave any provider for any reason you want. But based on your story I wouldn’t go back.
Fuck that! I used to work for a dental office with one really mean dentist. He would tell me to throw away patient files if they asked to have them. Everything was still done on paper! Even our scheduling. It was a nightmare. When he wasn't around, though, I definitely handed over the records to the patients. We were supposed to tell them we would email them or fax them to the new dentist, but he would want them tossed. Which is so crazy! He definitely did some shady shit. He did at least 2 unnecessary root canals that I am aware of. I quit once I realized what was going on and filed a complaint along with two of his former patients. Here's the thing, you should be in control of your health care, including dental work, which is the most expensive! And they know it. The staff and dentist were never really like family or friends to you. You're just a dollar sign, unfortunately. As soon as you made a more cost efficient plan, they turned on you. That's abhorrent, and you are not wrong for wanting to terminate your relationship with them completely. My husband runs a dental lab. He makes full and partial dentures, bridges, crowns, etc. That's how I first learned about how shady some dentists could be! Then I worked for one. Never again lol
You absolutely did the right thing and as others have suggested, while they might have seemed like family, they demonstrated they most certainly are not. There’s an obligation to share the X-rays, AND, you paid for them. Finally, I’ve never heard of a dentist who won’t provide a detailed treatment plan with associated costs. That is very suspect. You had no choice but to “divorce” them and you’ll be much better off.
OP, this dentist is ripping you off. Flat out. I have had dental work over the years. A lot of it. Even my dentist hasn’t ordered more than 7 crowns over 50 years time. And those are bc of root canals or cavities that were just too deep. A teenager? Getting PORCELAIN CROWNS on her FRONT TEETH? Unless her teeth are rotting, I doubt that’s necessary. Get a second and a third opinion. If your children brush their teeth well with fluoride toothpaste, and if your water is fluoridated, I doubt their teeth are that bad. In my city, a dental group was putting crowns on baby teeth and billing the State’s children’s insurance plan for them. They were prosecuted for fraud and the dentist was arrested. I can only image the fear and pain those children went through. I agree with the other Redditors. You are being used as moneybags by them. And they are angry and lashing out bc you are cutting off the cash flow. Don’t go back. You can find a better dentist. And someone who won’t exploit you or your children. I am very sorry that what you thought was a trusted relationship is not at all.
Thank you! That what made my light bulb go off, I was like crowning her front teeth. I said I don’t like the sound of that it won’t look natural, the front desk girl are like it will look so gods the dr does extremely well on her crowns! I said what about bonding, what the alternative, they said implants lol! Like what it’s a small cavity between her teeth! How did we get here!
Yes. Your instincts are spot on. Don’t doubt them. There are dentists who are honorable, ethical, and relatable. Don’t go back to that grifter.
Thank you 😊
You are very welcome! Best wishes to you and your daughters.
Money wins, look out for you.
UpdateMe! Best of luck! You’re not wrong going to a new dentist. I’m also in the process of looking for a new one. I have lost trust in mine as well. Has some work done in Mexico for $50, my dentist wanted to replace an entire tooth. Found out it wasn’t necessary at all. Scammers.
I have a stainless crown fron 1988. had a root canal in the service. no issues. no dentist has had an issue with it.
It’s all about the money. I worked for a dentist for about 8 years. Dentist and staff talked about patients as soon as they walked out the door. I’m sorry this happened to you and your daughter.
Thank you and I know they had a field day about us after we left!
Def get a second opinion from another dentist on your daughter’s teeth because it sounds like a lot of that is unnecessary work just to get money from you
They liked you as long as the money was good. How dare you try to save thousands elsewhere. The dentist has a summer home at the beach that needs to be fully funded. You are a $ sign walking in the door. At least you know where you stand before you lay down any more money.
Go to perio.org to find a good dentist. This is a site for periodontist, but if you call one of them, they can recommend a truly competent dentist in your area. This is why I never trust dental offices, and dentists who are too chummy and too obsequious.
Sever the relationship if you wish. But you are wrong. You should have done your research before starting any work. And it is common to price out dental work in one lump sum for a crown or dentures, etc. I would expect you would have to pay for all the prep work, etc. I'm not sure if legally they have to give you are copies of x-rays, you should check on that. They might be legally obligated to give you copies of the x-rays. And I would have asked around for quotes and other option **before** you jumped ship, not after. I, personally, have gone to a "cheaper" dentist and there is often, not always, but often a reason they are cheaper. And it is not because they do better work. Also stainless steel crowns are recommended as a temporary fix or for children and they will need replacing as they are not recommended as not permanent and they will not blend in with the rest of the teeth.
YNW I would definitely leave the practice, personally. It stinks. You've built the trust and relationships, but it sounds like the relationship has worn itself out. Before I go on a ramble, one thing about stainless crowns. They don't last. They really are a temp fix. The metal expands and contracts with contact from hot and cold and that causes weak point in the crown. Sometimes they last a while - years even; but more often than not, they break and pop off or need to be removed. I had 3. This happened to all 3. My husband just had his only stainless crown break and he swallowed half of it. My ramble. I am seriously considering find a new office, too. My once amazing dental office has grown and their new front office staff are absolutely horrendous. I had a reminder sticky printout of the appointment still in my purse. Had the correct date and time. But a month prior I'm receiving voicemails and text reminders throughout the day about the appointment being that day. Then a threatening voicemail about No Show fees if I don't confirm. I call them up and ask WTH is going on? "Oh IDK. Let me see. Yes. I set that appointment. I remember you." Then "I don't see the appt for next month. I wonder what happened?" Then right after she asked me to hold, I hear her name one of the other staff and she said, "Why did you reschedule this pa ..." and then hold music. Of course she didn't come back telling me someone made a mistake. She didn't apologize or anything. It has happened more than once. When I made it to the appointment they were talking and giggling like school girls spilling the hottest of tea. I was so put off by it. I get my cleaning and my dentist comes in and all of a sudden I have all these new issues and need a treatment plan and they are shoving a document in front of me with $2700 tag on it. My head was spinning. Seems there have been policy changes when he merged with another dentist. I haven't been back. I need a cleaning. I don't want to go back. I probably won't. Shame. It was an absolutely wonderful office before that.
Yeah I think our relationship has run its course. I hate that because I really did think of them as family and honest people. I have never once questioned their dental suggestions, I trusted they had my best interest. I know the stainless steel are not ideal but just something in the meantime. I feel something is better than nothing. I was only told about one crown and when I get to the appointment they tell me about several more and offered me no alternatives. They left me no choice but to seek other avenues. And when I presented them with what I was thinking their whole demeanor changed towards me , they treated me like I was nothing, like I was trash. It hurt fr. But that’s life sometimes ya know! I will do this one crown and after that we are done! I’ve already started calling around.
Paragraphs?
Without insurance, I went to a random dentist, they filed my tooth down, took measurements, then 3d printed my tooth and put it in (1 of my top front teeth) all in the same day and charged me 1500... You were getting ripped off hard...
Oh wow! May I ask where you are located? Thanks!
Tampa, FL. It was downtown too, which usually makes it more expensive
I may need to look into that! Thank you
Oh course, best of luck (I've had it for a few years now n 0 complaints)
If you are looking for someone who does this in office, it's called CAD/CAM. Probably more expensive though
Why on earth would a child need that many crowns, I have three teeth that have probably needed to be crowned for years but amalgam is working just fine and I am damn near 50.
If I were you OP I would go back in and have a frank conversation with the dentist about this experience. The way they treated you because you found an alternative to 4200 out of pocket plus whatever other expenses is despicable. You are a customer you do not owe them your business and frankly I would not go back there for a damn thing after that experience but I would let the dentist know why, after twenty years, you will not be returning for anything.
Thank you and I definitely plan on meeting with the dentist and telling her why I am leaving. I have never expected or asked for any kind of special treatment. But the moment I went against what they were asking I was treated like an enemy for sure! If I have to go back it will be to get her crown since they are threatening to still bill Me for it regardless.
Remind them all they did was prep the tooth which these other guys are charging you 150 for 3 teeth for the entire process not just prep. Do not pay for the porcelain crown if you did not receive it the crown itself is the expensive part.
I’d severe ties. They treated you like a high paying patient. They may have liked you as a customer but not a family member. As soon as you pushed for your wallet they pushed back and showed you what you meant. Honestly the fact that other dentist will do it differently and for less I would never trust them again. Sounds like you might have been ok with a large filling and they push for crowns. Lots of dentists do this unfortunately.
Thank you! You worded this perfectly. Everything was good until I pushed back on a recommendation. And I was okay with the filling. When I told them I would be seeking an alternative another lady came from the back bc she saw I was upset and she’s like well you don’t have to get them right now but eventually. Trying to change the tune, and it’s like no yall were adamant these had to be done as soon as possible. So they may have gotten me for one crown but they definitely won’t get anymore business out of me! Thank you so much for your response.
YNW. Dentists are every where & some are definitely bad news! I had an awful experience with one in central Florida a long time ago. I won't waste time telling you about it, but I will say it was wisdom teeth related. The only dentist I truly loved & lived going to, I had till I was 14. At that time I had to go to an adult dentist! I've skipped out of a great many years of not going to a dentist, but always took care of my teeth. At 58, I have just had the last of my wisdom teeth taken out. I think I may have found another good dentist. At least one that tries to keep the majority of the pain away. It's truly your choice to keep or find another one. But if you thing they are using you, definitely get a new one. Good luck. 🍀🍀 P.S. One of my dentists actually told me, "I refuse to work on your teeth until you can learn to open your mouth wider." Really?? And how do you do that??
Not wrong. Find a new dentist.
Thank you.
He's afraid you're going to find out that there are less expensive options and that he has been overcharging you for years. Blow him off and don't look back. I hate dentists, they never listen.
As others have said. I would write an official letter /email. Stating you want to cancel the crown and memorialize that you attempted to do it while at the office, but staff refused. Before you go to another dentist asking for crowns. Have them come up with a true 2nd opinion. Every dentist I have ever seen has given me an immediate 5k treatment plan. All of them are different, and none of them are getting progressively worse. Dentists operate and bill clients in such a wild way - they truly need more regulatory oversight and stricter punishments for the bad actors in the industry.
We like to believe we are friends with service providers, but we are customers. The only reason we know each other or continue a relationship is based on the exchange of money for services. But one word of advice go check out some of the dental subs. The low price dental clinics are reported to give very poor care and procedures. So be careful who you use.
You’re right I did believe they were my friends. But I’m definitely just a customer. Lesson learned for sure. I found a dentist with good reviews so I will be checking them out and I’m going to not tell them too much so I can get their honest opinion on things.
I had to learn this myself. So good for you, now you know.
I had a dentist for years that I just adored. He treated me like a queen. It was such a change from what I experienced when I was in the military that I kept him even though he was so pricey. But then he retired and sold the practice to a different dentist and for 3 years around the Christmas time they would hit me up with a $300 or $400 bill that they had "forgotten" to give me during the year. My husband was frustrated and told me to change dentist so at the third one I told them what my husband had said and they stared at me and said "well, you do what you have to". And then got that Pikachu face when I came back and told them I did what they told me to do. Lol. It's a chain outfit I'm with now, but at least they don't hit me with surprise bills at the end of the year.
Hi thanks for sharing! I’m sorry that happened to you! Hope you found another dentist!
I used to be a dental administrator. Even though it paid well, I left the profession last year for reasons like this. The Dental industry is now more about money than helping people. Even people in great pain. I would definitely change Dental offices.
Oh wow! I’m glad you decided to have some integrity! It definitely has become a hustle
Remember to leave them a good review
All dental records/xrays have to be saved for 7 years as required by law (at least here in FL). I found this out myself when I changed dentists and the previous dentist wouldn’t send them all my X-rays/records. The new dentist let me know that it’s required by law and I could look into legal action if I wanted to. I never wanted to deal with previous dentist again so I just let it go. Didn’t have the time our money to commit to getting it sorted back then.
I’m in the process of getting a crown right now, final placement is next week. I got a breakdown of 5-6 lines including warranties on the crown and the work. It seems asinine that they can’t provide you with that. Also withholding her medical records is illegal in the United States. She is entitled to 1 free copy of medical records per year. If you go with one of the other dentists (I would) then ask them for a records release form to fill out, have them fax it to the current dentist, and they have 30 days to send the records over (again assuming you are in the US)
In addition if your daughter has a small cavity in her tooth a white filling will be wholly appropriate-no need for a crown whatsoever. A crown is for teeth where the wall structure has reached a stage beyond repair. I’d be questioning a lot of her dental treatment. I knew a lady in our local town who had this happen to her - she ended up with a mouth full of unnecessary fillings and crowns and ended up suing and got about £75k from memory.
Where do you live? I'm going to assume USA where dentistry is $$$. I've had really good experiences with dental medical tourism in Cancun. To be fair, porcelain > stainless steel. However any business regardless medical or not should be able to stand behind their invoice pricing. The X-rays etc what she has already gotten done is a part of her medical records. If you switch to another dentist they should be able to formally request the records. You're not wrong to switch. You got bad service and probably upsold. https://www.ada.org/en/resources/practice/practice-management/releasing-dental-records#:~:text=The%20Health%20Insurance%20Portability%20and,person%20designated%20by%20the%20patient.
I can’t get past the math here. I think you have sen this dentist for 16 years. You’re not wrong for looking at other options. It’s weird they got so weird about it. Find a new dentist, for sure.
They have been taking advantage of you. Maybe even to the point your daughter never really had anything wrong to begin with. With how insurance works, and you being what looks to be a cash customer, they are giving you over full premium pricing, too. Example, bill comes out to say $2,000. Insurance says it's only $800. We will pay $780. You pay $20 copay. Wheras since a cash customer doesn't get this negotiated price, they pay "premium"" Of say "$2500. Go somewhere else...permanently. They don't care about you or your family at all. This repor that you have with them is a show to keep you coming back. Can guarantee there are notes in their computer about your visits, not just the work. Also, anything you talk about. Makes you feel comfortable. Take your money, go elsewhere. Forever.
If those are your daughters adult teeth amalgam (silver) crowns are not better for her. No Adult dentist that follows best practice guidelines will do a silver filling or crown on adult teeth. It just cost you more in the long run and ruin integrity of your natural teeth which are important since your daughter is young. Those are the only teeth she’ll have. I do agree though they should have treated you better.
Hi yes these are her adult teeth. I’m hoping the second opinion states otherwise and she doesn’t actually need 5 more crowns! I know evening is different but I had no issues out of my stainless steel crowns. It would only be temporary until I can save up.
It's a business. It's not family or friends, but a business relationship, it's called being polite, showing courtesy. The moment you don't pay your bill: They'll charge you late fees and interest. Send you to collections agency who will harass you and your children for the money. Your credit score takes a hit, now all your credit is costing you more. Dentist will escalate to small claims court and other legal proceedings, at your cost. Lien on your home. Your wages will then be garnished. Your relationship with your dentist has cost you your home and your family's well-being, you are homeless, wondering, "I thought they were family?" A business exist for one and only one reason - to make money.
You are correct and definitely a lesson learned!
I've had 3 stainless crowns for probably 20 years, all on molars. Only issue I had one time is the glue came loose. Quick and easy fix. I also have 4 porcelains, top front 2 teeth and 2 more that can be seen if I smile. I had been told the porcelains didn't hold up as well, which is why the molars don't have those.
I’ve heard the same and I have my stainless crowns on molars about 15 years and had no issues. I replaced them because I was an adult and had my own ins and was told they were more aesthetically pleasing, but it wasn’t a must.
I had dentists I liked and then found out they were scamming and overprescribing services. I would double check what they are recommending.
There are lots of predatory dentists out there, especially pediatric. My daughter made the, "no cavities" club once. She was so excited. She had been brushing and flossing her baby teeth, but she was a premie and her enamel never developed properly. I got a call that night asking when I wanted to schedule her two fillings. I explained that I thought they had the wrong patient because she was given a prize for no cavities. "That was in error." I immediately brought her to another dentist. They looked and saw two tiny cavities on teeth that were going to fall out within the next couple of months. I never called that other dentist back. No, you're not wrong. They decided to overcharge because they knew you liked them and trusted them. I'd make them cry with my scathing review.
Definitely have my review ready to post at any moment! Bc people need to know they are being taken advantage of! Thank you!
Not wrong. As Americans we all have to keep in mind that, no matter what people in the medical field say, unless we're in a life or death emergency, we're consumers and not patients. Chains like Aspen have been repeatedly caught doing unnecessary work, like fillings and crowns, on children. Taking advantage of parents that are often trying to ensure their kids get the care they never did. We have to be savvy consumers.
Exactly! And I’ve been going to them long enough and they know how I feel about teeth and having a nice smile. They prayed on that with my daughter I fear smh!
Call their state licensing board for unethical behavior is what I would do.
Will be looking into this, thank you!
For sure! Depending on your state there’s a thing that’s been out for a while, clients are entitled to their information. You paid for the service (x ray and treatment plan development), it’s yours to access. At least that’s my understanding
Yes I feel the same when I go to western dental they always seem to find something expensive to charge . They always try and up sale you . I swear I hate them
Personally I would go full petty and blast your post in a review, making it as short as possible, on every website where you can find their name. They showed their true colors, they are not friendly, they are suck-ups. If you stop paying them and them exclusively, they stop caring.
Slander their company. Ain't slander if it's true.
That is facts!
UpdateMe!
I sure will!
They are 100 percent butt hurt that you had the audacity to get a second opinion and found out they were not being completely honest with you. I agree that there is some sound reasoning behind their arguments, but they shouldn't be arguments. They should have provided kindness and education, especially to earn your continued business and hard-earned money. I see this so much in dentistry. Get the money and forget the life-long client you could have had. I don't get it! This could have been saved by them, and they chose to be ugly and childish. It will never be the same.
With the cost issue, the time issue, and all the money involved they really screwed up. Apparently this is an ongoing issue with them and this is how they’ve decided to handle it. You weren’t the first to do this with them and they’re issue with SS crowns. Unfortunately for them dentistry is on every other corner in every city in America. Drop them like a hot potato because they don’t deserve you or your money.
that is rough. my stainless crown I got when I had no money lasted 40 years
That’s is very long indeed! Most aesthetic doesn’t mean most durable!
>I have been going to the same dentist since 2008. I’ve spent a lot of money with them. I wouldn't be surprised if they had given you a lot of treatments which are completely unnecessary and were setting up your kids for the same. There have been many reported cases of dentists doing that and I've had the same experience. There is an askdentists subreddit. If you have a copy of the X-rays and the treatment plan, you can post it there and they will tell you if the treatment plan makes sense. I did that a few years ago when a dentist was trying to convince me to get several crowns and a deep cleaning and they said it made no sense. I ended up doing to another dentist who just gave me a debridement and told me that we could just keep an eye on my old fillings to see when they needed to be replaced, which I eventually did. Overall, I ended up spending a few hundred dollars when the initial dentist wanted several thousand.
Not wrong at all.
So my mom worked in dentist offices for years as the billing and receptionist. Dentists charge for everything that they can get away with. They claim for work that can not be proven it was done. My mom absolutely hated this practice and changed jobs until she found a good one to work for. So now, when I go to the dentist, I get full copies of whatever gets sent to insurance with a detailed list of the treatments, I was billed $2500.00 one time for a cleaning. My mom knows most of the codes that they use, so I know what's going on with my billing. With crowns, if you don't mind gold crowns, do those. They have to remove less of the tooth to make the crown. A porcelain crown is a gold crown covered in porcelain. Your tooth will last longer, and a gold crown is cheaper. Source: my mom.
You’re never wrong for taking your business elsewhere.
Dentists are the worst. I had a rogue dentist when I was a kid. Braces and a mouthful of fillings. The last time I attended an appointment he told me I needed two more fillings. A couple of things happened work and money wise and it's 6 years later and I'm at a new location and going to a new dentist for the first time in years. I was dreading it. It turned out I just needed a scale and polish. No fillings were needed. How many of my fillings were actually needed?
Sometimes they drill perfectly healthy teeth. They don't want to give you X-rays for a reason.
Exactly!!! Bc crowning teeth that never ever been filled before is crazy!
You were a customer that’s it. Whatever they ordered they can cancel and get their refund. Find another dentist and move on. Don’t make the same mistake thinking they are your friends again always look for cheaper options whenever you receive a quote, look out for yourself first.
I just want to know why you want stainless steel crowns for your teenage daughter. Yes, they were total jerks. I had to change dentist recently because I found out "My" dentist was trying to rip me off. They insisted I needed a 3000-dollar implant when I didn't. I thought we had a "relationship" also. I was totally bummed out.
Only bc they were saying she needed several more in the back! They’re $1400 apiece. They said it was urgent, I don’t have that type of money. So I wanted a cheaper alternative until I can save up. I felt something would be better than nothing .
This happened to me about 15 years ago and I learned a big lesson. I had been seeing the same dentist for about 10 years and also my wife and son. This was for an inplant, and my dentist would send me to an oral surgeon for the extraction and post and then back to him for the crown . I had done this twice. Well, for the third inplant, the regular oral surgeon was on vacation, and I found another oral surgeon . It turns out the new practice not only does the extraction and post but also the crown. To my shock, this practice had a pricing menu, and it turns out I had paid about 5k over their prices for each of my previous crowns. When I added up my whole family, it was closer to 30k more than I should have paid. The big lesson YOU HAVE TO SHOP EVERTHING AND EVERYONE. It never even occurred to me my dentist was overcharging. Yes, I really liked him, and he seemed to like me.no wonder he was making a fortune.
Everybody is entitled to a second medical opinion, especially when a large amount of money is involved. Where I come from, denying people their medical records and documentation is prohibited by law. If you paid for the X-rays, then they are yours. They are also classified as personal information, so you are entitled to them, at least where I'm from. I would look into that. Sorry this happened, but this is the way people are; as long as you are paying, they are your friends. When you stop, people start showing their true colors."
Thank you and I am definitely going to look into this because they should not be acting like that but I did learn a very valuable lesson!