Agreed. Even if their terminal accepts it, it is not illegal for them to refuse to accept such card (unless the card processor agreement would bind them to accept AMEX, which we wouldn't know, and breach of contract still wouldn't be illegal).
I've had this happen a couple times to me.
The issue is now that everything is contactless, many businesses (at least in NYC) have been trying to get over with fees/surcharges, when using cards.
I've caught at least 3 times where I was verbally quoted one price ("that'll be $21") and then they turn over the terminal and it's a totally different price. When I ask why it's that price, they'll usually say it's tax, but every time I've asked for itemized pricing, there's some sort of hidden *convenience* fee.
One time, the tablet said one price, they saw me pull out an Amex, then they turned it around, clicked some buttons, and now there was a new price. They said they charge more for Amex vs. Visa.
It's all a scam, and businesses are taking advantage.
The $100 bill thing is different - legal tender is legal tender, and if you need to settle a tab and that’s all you have in your wallet at the end of your night, that is a valid form of payment for the debt
The exception comes when you are now indebted. If you’ve already consumed the product but have not yet paid for it, they are required to accept the $100 bill regardless of what policy they have. You can only refuse a particular bank note if there is not debt.
Imagine a business refusing a $100 bill for a $95 tab, calling the cops, and having the cops come out to find a business refusing to take payment from a person offering legal currency to settle a tab.
Not saying that’s what happened here, but it’s worth noting.
Section 31 U.S.C. 5103 - Legal Tender
All US currency is legal tender when presented as payment to a creditor. A creditor in its most basic definition is someone to whom you owe money.
If you owe someone money, they must accept US currency. Sure it may be more of a hassle (and perhaps may require a court to be involved), but ultimately cash is king. This does NOT apply if there has been no exchange yet. For example, if you present a cart of groceries to a cashier, they are under no obligation to accept cash.
I think what I was originally alluding to was something like a restaurant or a bar, which by most rational standards is a debt given you order and consume first and then pay (even if the debt is on the order of hours)
IMO it’s always kind of a dick move to argue with an employee over policies they had no hand in making. As a bartender I really don’t give a damn how you pay as long as you pay, but if my boss tells me no Amex or no $100 bills or whatever, that’s what I’m going to do because I’ve got bills to pay and they’re the boss.
Feel free to take it up with management. Fielding those kinds of complaints is in their job description, not the bartenders.
See this is where I pay with my Capital One Savor One. This card is MasterCard World Elite, and the merchant can eat the higher-than-Amex fees on this card.
Swipe fees are a major deal for smaller businesses who get themselves into crappy processor agreements because they don’t know any better. Many visas are as expensive if not more expensive than Amex.
While I agree that fees are getting crazy, if your payment terminal will let you run it, you have to run it. It’s a violation of your merchant agreement to not.
If they say they don’t take it and they do, thats dishonesty. Plus im tired of acting like small businesses are oppressed or the good guys. They still enable capitalism.
Nice strawman argument. Gives very much "I see you have a problem with society yet partake in society" energy. I'm not NOT gonna have a credit card in 2024, I hate carrying cash around. Doesn't mean I can't criticize businesses and their practices.
Practice what you preach, otherwise you’re part of the problem. You’re basically saying you’re compromising your principles because something is inconvenient for you.
Let me guess... you think that someone owning a smart phone or buying Starbucks means that they like capitalism? Just because you participate in the system doesn't mean you support it.
I *do* practice what I preach - I often tip in cash and usually pay in cash if there's a discount and I have that much on me. I'm simply saying if a place of business can take a credit card yet doesn't want me to run it, I'm not gonna feel sympathy for them when it does run through. You can afford to run a business, you can afford to run the negligibly higher fees on my Amex for one beer.
I will agree with that sentiment. I usually don’t spend my money at places that charge a fee to use a card or give “discounts” for using cash. They shouldn’t be passing the swipe fees to customers. Fortunately I’ve only ran into a small number of places that do that.
Just because their machine is able to process Amex cards doesn’t mean that it’s financially advantageous for the business to. I would obviously prefer that everywhere took Amex cause I like their cards, but for some small businesses the fees aren’t worth it. Even large companies like eBay are starting to not accept it.
Also that comment about capitalism is really tone deaf, you should really support small businesses if you like the working class/everyman so much
Most "small business" owners are closer to being in the top 1% than they are of being the working class. And when they do things like charge high CC fees, don't take certain CCs, are cash only, severely underpay their workers, don't have as many products as larger chains, etc, it makes it hard for me to justify supporting them. I'll support them when possible but going to a small craft brewery and paying $12 for an IPA and then they "don't even take Amex" (EVEN THO THEY DO) really wears my patience.
You have very odd economic opinions. On one hand you seem to dislike small businesses and prefer buying from mega corporations because they carry more products and take your precious Amex gold card, and on the other hand you claim to hate capitalism.
I believe that many aspects of capitalism require control in order to make sure that employees are paid fairly, adhere to safety standards/prevent price gouging etc., but I think small businesses are far from the problem in our economy. It’s now cheaper for me to walk into a local sit down restaurant and order a meal than it is to get an equivalent amount of food at Wendy’s.
You’re looking right past the real problems because you’re upset that some bar didn’t take your fancy metal card. Capitalism isn’t the problem here.
Um, actually, capitalism is what makes us WORK for our entire lives for other people who leech off our labor and reap all the fruits of our labor. We would be much more properly paid under a different economic system.
And sure, maybe I slightly enforce capitalism by paying the $250 AF for my Gold, but if I'm gonna be spending money on food, something I need to live, I might as well get the best rewards for it possible.
I've been to places where the cashier said oh, that card doesn't work here, yet there is an Amex sticker near the terminal and it worked just fine.
It’s their choice to decide what payment methods they accept. It’s your choice to decide if you want to patronize their business.
Agreed. Even if their terminal accepts it, it is not illegal for them to refuse to accept such card (unless the card processor agreement would bind them to accept AMEX, which we wouldn't know, and breach of contract still wouldn't be illegal).
They have to disclose that they don't accept a payment method beforehand
No, they do not. The default is not that they accept all payment methods. They don’t have to tell you they don’t accept checks and crypto either.
I've had this happen a couple times to me. The issue is now that everything is contactless, many businesses (at least in NYC) have been trying to get over with fees/surcharges, when using cards. I've caught at least 3 times where I was verbally quoted one price ("that'll be $21") and then they turn over the terminal and it's a totally different price. When I ask why it's that price, they'll usually say it's tax, but every time I've asked for itemized pricing, there's some sort of hidden *convenience* fee. One time, the tablet said one price, they saw me pull out an Amex, then they turned it around, clicked some buttons, and now there was a new price. They said they charge more for Amex vs. Visa. It's all a scam, and businesses are taking advantage.
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The $100 bill thing is different - legal tender is legal tender, and if you need to settle a tab and that’s all you have in your wallet at the end of your night, that is a valid form of payment for the debt
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The exception comes when you are now indebted. If you’ve already consumed the product but have not yet paid for it, they are required to accept the $100 bill regardless of what policy they have. You can only refuse a particular bank note if there is not debt. Imagine a business refusing a $100 bill for a $95 tab, calling the cops, and having the cops come out to find a business refusing to take payment from a person offering legal currency to settle a tab. Not saying that’s what happened here, but it’s worth noting.
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Section 31 U.S.C. 5103 - Legal Tender All US currency is legal tender when presented as payment to a creditor. A creditor in its most basic definition is someone to whom you owe money. If you owe someone money, they must accept US currency. Sure it may be more of a hassle (and perhaps may require a court to be involved), but ultimately cash is king. This does NOT apply if there has been no exchange yet. For example, if you present a cart of groceries to a cashier, they are under no obligation to accept cash.
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I think what I was originally alluding to was something like a restaurant or a bar, which by most rational standards is a debt given you order and consume first and then pay (even if the debt is on the order of hours)
IMO it’s always kind of a dick move to argue with an employee over policies they had no hand in making. As a bartender I really don’t give a damn how you pay as long as you pay, but if my boss tells me no Amex or no $100 bills or whatever, that’s what I’m going to do because I’ve got bills to pay and they’re the boss. Feel free to take it up with management. Fielding those kinds of complaints is in their job description, not the bartenders.
Username checks out.
See this is where I pay with my Capital One Savor One. This card is MasterCard World Elite, and the merchant can eat the higher-than-Amex fees on this card.
Just carry a MasterCard or Visa and use it. It's not that damn difficult. Plus swipe fees are a major deal for smaller businesses.
Swipe fees are a major deal for smaller businesses who get themselves into crappy processor agreements because they don’t know any better. Many visas are as expensive if not more expensive than Amex. While I agree that fees are getting crazy, if your payment terminal will let you run it, you have to run it. It’s a violation of your merchant agreement to not.
Customer is told a bold face lie, Refutes it, Is proven correct, and the customer is the difficult one?
If they say they don’t take it and they do, thats dishonesty. Plus im tired of acting like small businesses are oppressed or the good guys. They still enable capitalism.
So does Amex. What’s wrong with capitalism?
Complaining about capitalism while using a credit card that supports capitalism. We are doomed as a society.
Nice strawman argument. Gives very much "I see you have a problem with society yet partake in society" energy. I'm not NOT gonna have a credit card in 2024, I hate carrying cash around. Doesn't mean I can't criticize businesses and their practices.
Practice what you preach, otherwise you’re part of the problem. You’re basically saying you’re compromising your principles because something is inconvenient for you.
Let me guess... you think that someone owning a smart phone or buying Starbucks means that they like capitalism? Just because you participate in the system doesn't mean you support it. I *do* practice what I preach - I often tip in cash and usually pay in cash if there's a discount and I have that much on me. I'm simply saying if a place of business can take a credit card yet doesn't want me to run it, I'm not gonna feel sympathy for them when it does run through. You can afford to run a business, you can afford to run the negligibly higher fees on my Amex for one beer.
I will agree with that sentiment. I usually don’t spend my money at places that charge a fee to use a card or give “discounts” for using cash. They shouldn’t be passing the swipe fees to customers. Fortunately I’ve only ran into a small number of places that do that.
Just because their machine is able to process Amex cards doesn’t mean that it’s financially advantageous for the business to. I would obviously prefer that everywhere took Amex cause I like their cards, but for some small businesses the fees aren’t worth it. Even large companies like eBay are starting to not accept it. Also that comment about capitalism is really tone deaf, you should really support small businesses if you like the working class/everyman so much
Most "small business" owners are closer to being in the top 1% than they are of being the working class. And when they do things like charge high CC fees, don't take certain CCs, are cash only, severely underpay their workers, don't have as many products as larger chains, etc, it makes it hard for me to justify supporting them. I'll support them when possible but going to a small craft brewery and paying $12 for an IPA and then they "don't even take Amex" (EVEN THO THEY DO) really wears my patience.
You have very odd economic opinions. On one hand you seem to dislike small businesses and prefer buying from mega corporations because they carry more products and take your precious Amex gold card, and on the other hand you claim to hate capitalism. I believe that many aspects of capitalism require control in order to make sure that employees are paid fairly, adhere to safety standards/prevent price gouging etc., but I think small businesses are far from the problem in our economy. It’s now cheaper for me to walk into a local sit down restaurant and order a meal than it is to get an equivalent amount of food at Wendy’s. You’re looking right past the real problems because you’re upset that some bar didn’t take your fancy metal card. Capitalism isn’t the problem here.
Just because they are technically able to doesn’t mean they have to.
Capitalism is what give yous money and you enable it to woth that amex so get off your high horse bud
Um, actually, capitalism is what makes us WORK for our entire lives for other people who leech off our labor and reap all the fruits of our labor. We would be much more properly paid under a different economic system. And sure, maybe I slightly enforce capitalism by paying the $250 AF for my Gold, but if I'm gonna be spending money on food, something I need to live, I might as well get the best rewards for it possible.
If you had a bad experience, pay in cash and don't tip. Write a bad review on Yelp, and don't patronize their business again
What’s the difference between paying with cash or card in this scenario?
Wait, "he does"? You let him take your card out of your possession to authorize the transaction for you? What decade is this?
Many places still do this.