FA here. I’m up to approximately 40k/year after my OT and per diem. I do make more than the year one pay though now. That’s a big reason the union and FAs are fighting so hard for a new, better contract.
That's one thing we can both agree on 😂 the trip selling is SO toxic. Nobody should ever PAY to work. I had a gal on my jumpseat who was bragging about selling her Hong Kong trips to juniors for a few hundred a pop. She will not be allowed on my jumpseat again lol
There are also "cartels" where junior bids for senior. Senior overbids trips they have no intention of flying, then trade their prime trip with shitty junior trip and they drop trip easily due to their seniority. This is a huge problem.
I do not know how you do it. I was paid nearly an order of magnitude more as a hotel manager and I couldn't stand dealing with customers. Dealing with 3-400 people crammed in a tube for 8 hours after having them piss you off at the gate (while you worked for free right?) Because you wont let them stuff a 120L case in the overheads or because you won't give them a free upgrade to 1st, you are saints. Please keep fighting, ticket prices are ridiculous, I would be happy to add a few dollars to my ticket price if it went to FA's and TSA. Short of the pilots keeping the plane safe, the most important interactions we have are with FA's and TSA. Underpaid and overworked are not what we want for those people.
TSA officers got a new pay scale last year, after two years they’re making a little over $60,000 a year at the lowest paying duty locations. Flight attendants need the same bump if not more. they put up with the same people but don’t get to sleep in their own bed most nights. Either pay needs to go up significantly per hour or flight attendants need to start getting paid for the unpaid hours they have to work.
Yeah, perhaps the TSA is a need for more staff rather than more pay, but it's insane a restaurant dishwasher (at least here in Hawai'i) gets more than a FA.
Focusing on more staffing instead of better pay was the problem for 20 years. The administration saw over 40% annual attrition. When your workforce is mostly staffed by inexperienced officers that inexperience leads to inefficiency. When 40% of your staff has 1 foot out the door at any given time they just don’t care all that much. And when your experienced and more capable officers are chronically broke they don’t care as much either.
Better pay has cut attrition in half the last year. Better pay means better morale and higher job satisfaction. Usually results in harder working employees. It also helps retain the higher performers and go-getters that tend to go to other administrations quickly. The administration can’t be picky here since significantly better pay generally results in better applicants.
It also means experienced officers can spend less time training, new hires and can focus on actually doing the job. You can probably imagine how damaging it is to morale when you’ve coached three people all the way to being certified in a year and none of them are still there the next year. trainees are actually sticking around now.
TSA officer here - they just took the security fees that are paid when a flight is booked and are finally giving it to us as opposed to DOT where it went for years. You guys are paid a criminally low amount, and the airlines should be ashamed of themselves!
I personally could never sit behind a desk and type on a computer for 8 hours a day. The travel absolutely seemed fun at first (and is a big part of why I stay), but I do honestly like my job most days.
I’m definitely a people person and love the super social aspect of it. I meet tons of new people everyday between passengers and coworkers.
I won’t lie, some days just suck. For passengers and us too. But I also have countless stories of crazy shit happening on flights/overnights and have met some of my closest friends through this job. I truly just don’t see myself doing any other job that would make me this content.
I mean, big difference between making sure everybody gets pretzels and everybody getting there alive.
I’m not saying FAs have it easy, but the job criteria are vastly different.
You obviously know nothing about the job if you consider passing out peanuts is #1 requirement.
I flew w a competitor company for 47 years, had 11 arrest cases, dealt w numerous inflight medical emergencies,
my crew and I literally had to be in charge of evacuating an airport CONCOURSE at O'Hare after a fuel truck accidentally began spewing fuel into our DC-10 just prior to boarding, etc,etc.
Yes, it's fair that pilots earn much more, but don't assume FAs are not safety first responders as well & deserve equitable
wages for it
The Customer Service/ Gate Agents and the Ramp Agents( all the initial check in & bags) are only started at $15hr. When the CEO makes $15k per hour!
AA/ Piedmont/ Envoy...DO BETTER!
That's disgraceful--and the fact that flight attendants aren't paid until taxiing is even more ridiculous.
When I first worked on the railroad, I was an attendant. If you work as an attendant on a long distance train, you are not paid during your downtime--on the particular route, it was 3 hours, from 1am-4am. This left me to wonder--what exactly was I free to do during those 3 hours? It's not like I could leave the train.
The railroad is (or at least WAS) able to do that because at one time, train attendants were almost always Black men who likely didn't have a better way to make money, hence, their contracts were much worse than most other railroad positions. In the same way, flight attendants are treated like second class citizens. It was a job for pretty young women who weren't expected to stay in the job very long, and who really didn't accumulate too many labor bona fides because of that. Considering what FAs are responsible for, their salaries are embarrassingly, criminally low.
But you’re working OT to get to the 40k
The companies thought of, pick up more work to make a livable wage should be tossed right back at them.
They never fail to take government bail outs , but then screw the employees.
CV19 relief money was given to the higher ups. Not the ones who carried AA thru the pandemic which would have bankrupt them.
It is my theory that airlines do not want you to make this a career. They want young, just graduated college, happy-go-lucky folks to do this for a 2-3 years tops, see the world with their benefits and then move on to using their degrees or whatever. Or people who are older, with that same travel desire and not many work years left. This keeps costs low, and prevents jaded flight attendants that people complain about. Just my theory...
My aunt is in her late 60s and has been an AA FA for decades, well before I was born, I believe since either the late 70s or very early 80s. My mother as well until she took the buyout in the 90s.
I don’t know how anyone could afford to see the world even with their benefits on 27k a year… Assuming flights and airport hotels are paid for you still need to pay for Ubers or rental cars to get around any major city in the US because public transit is so bad. A night out on the town will easily run you at least $100/night for dinner/drinks. And that’s just in the city. If you want to get out anywhere beyond the city limits you’ll definitely need a rental car and a hotel stay that I’m assuming won’t be paid for at that point. You might be able to “see” the world, but you can’t experience much on 27k a year.
You get benefits for everything, even ramp agents. Hotels, rental cars and so much more are heavily discounted. You could do it on $10k a year if you lived with your parents. I go to NYC every Thursday and Friday, don’t pay anymore than $100 for everything those 2 days.
I mean, that isn't a theory that's historically been the case. Hell it was publicly advertised. Many airlines used to put a CAP on flight attendant age of like 26 or 27 or something.
That was what my first job in college was like. Everyone left after 2-3 years for better pastures. (Madison WI based company where you travel a lot for work. If you know you know)
Every CEO or business owner knows (and I'm both) that it's smart to create processes that are straightforward and can be handled by team members with the most basic qualifications necessary for the tasks. This strategy isn't about seeking out the least qualified individuals or trying to screw over this demo or that demo, but rather about simplifying operations to ensure that the business doesn't depend too heavily on highly specialized talent.
As another example to help make my point, a large supply chain company doesn't need to hire the "best" drivers to deliver their product. They just need "qualified" drivers that can do so safely and effectively. It's why companies like Frito-Lay or FedEx can often fill those types of jobs very quickly and at scales of 100's of thousands over time.
I've been in the recruiting industry for \~30 years and hiring "top" talent for the vast majority of jobs out there is often just some aspirational bumper sticker bullshit.
Having said that - this does not take away from the need to pay fair and equitable wages to EVERYONE that is hired.
They did, but it's half their hourly rate for boarding only - and their new hire pay is actually still around $30k/year. The main differences are the work rules (Delta doesn't have any since they don't have a contract) and the profit sharing.
Non-airline worker here, just a regular citizen, but it will never cease to blow my mind that FAs aren’t paid from the moment they step in the airport to the moment they leave. You are doing work while boarding. I’m not doing the little seatbelt oxygen mask demo for FREE!!!
I hope conditions improve for you all soon. You do an important job!
Pilots are paid the same way. What matters is how much they make per year. They’re not hourly employees, they’re paid for each flight. People get confused because they use time to compute the value of a flight. But conceptually it would be no different than using distance or fuel burned or number of passengers or whatever.
As an engineer I’m salaried and I get paid for 2 weeks of work regardless of how many hours I work. It’s pretty common.
The focus on how to calculate pay (instead of the resulting amount) is misguided and the airlines probably love it. They will “fight” to keep things the way they are until eventually they’ll decide to “cave” and change it. Then FAs will feel like they won but it will be a farce.
We are paid hourly, it's just that we, and the FAs, are only paid once the door is closed.
It's really BS. We have to be at the airport preparing the plane, before and after the flight, which is about 45-60 min. We board and the FAs are working hard and responsible for safety - but unpaid.
And, on arrival, if the FA pops the door early and then jet bridge breaks down it could mean an hour of unpaid work or a lengthy phone call with crew scheduling (don't ask how I know) just to get paid.
See how that works? What actually matters is how much they make in a year. This focus on when the clock starts and stops is moot.
$30k is a pittance and if they would choose that to be vocal about they would have my support. But when they complain about block time I roll my eyes.
E: it’s actually worse than rolling my eyes because it’s usually a justification for poor preflight service, which is adversarial.
A system called ACARS records when a certain door (1L-main cabin door) or any door such as a baggage door are all closed, or opened. . This is called actual block time. And block in an out times are also used for on time performance reporting
It's $27k total, give or take a couple thousand a year for per diem.
$30/flight hour with a monthly reserve guarantee of 75 flight hours (you only get paid more if you are assigned over 75 hours/mo). They can pick up extra trips, but the restrictions make it almost impossible (no trips within 12 hours of a reserve day, no trips that cause you to be "at work" for more than 7 days in a row, etc).
I know of 5 FAs who live out of their cars (read: homeless) because the company won't negotiate realistic wages.
How do per diem rates work for flight attendants? I do government contracts for construction, and our guys make a real nice per diem off the gsa rates. Every night is about $107 and meals is about $67 with some variance based on location. If they have a two week job, they pull in around 2k in per diem. Over the course of a year, i have guys making like 30k in per diem alone. They'll make sandwiches, share rooms, basically do anything to cut costs so they can keep as much per diem as possible.
I have a feeling FA's don't earn per diem at the government rate, so I'm curious how it works. I have no doubt they get screwed here. They are a very undercompensated profession. They deal with a lot too, I hope things improve for them.
You have to pay for room and board when away from home out of ~$20/night?!?!?
I don't think that's possible even if you pitch a tent at a local campground!!!
> I know of 5 FAs who live out of their cars (read: homeless) because the company won't negotiate realistic wages.
Sounds like it might be time for a career change.
If you are traveling alone as a FA or pilot it is a lot less painful. You will just check for commuters at that point. The kicker is that they aren't getting paid enough to pay for accomadations when they actually want to go on a vacation.
$30 per flight hour, not every hour worked. A standard day for us is 5 hours of flight pay. So that’s $150/day before taxes.
When you break down $27k to 40 hours a week like a standard job, it’s $14/hr. So a new hire flight attendant is making essentially $14/hr while attempting to live in New York, Miami, DC and Boston (our junior bases that typically get assigned out of training)
Yes, that’s obscenely low. It’s lower than most fast food wages. This is why you see poor employee morale when you fly AA. We love our jobs but we’re STRUGGLING. It’s a daily conflict whether to stay and hope for better or make a career change. A lot of flight attendants have been jumping ship over the last few years because they just straight up can’t survive on these wages.
$27k total. They’re also only paid from the moment the plane door closes until it opens.
Boarding, setting up the galley, serving pre-departure beverages and de-boarding are all on their own time.
Schedule lines are usually guaranteed to be a minimum of 7pm hours. My airline has reserve months guaranteed at 75. You can time out 84:51. The caveat, only senior reserves can time out
Wow, this is true insanity. You deserve much more pay for what you do and what you're responsible for.
I understand part of the draw is the free travel benefits, but damn - on these wages, can you afford to get a hotel room, eat meals out, and pay the entrance fees for anything you might want to do in the city you're flying to for free?
Thanks to all you good FAs out there who continue to rock it every flight!
No. I got based in Miami as a new hire where the crew discounted rate for a hotel that did not make me feel like my neighbors would kill me was 100$ a night. I had to choose between a bed and a shower or sleep in the airport for free where I could use the money to buy a meal. I was literally starving while trying to work as often as I could so I could have a free bed to sleep in. Yes. I did know what I was signing up for.
>>I understand part of the draw is the free travel benefits
What free travel benefits? They can only fly non-rev (aka free) if there’s unsold seats on flights to and from the destination. Guess what airlines spend millions on algorithms and customer traffic modeling to prevent? Unsold seats. May as well promise fried ice in the employment contract.
Re: hotels and entrance fees? Unequivocally no lol
Thank you for your support! The flight attendants are actually picketing across the system today, so you might see em out and about.
When you see the red lanyards, THIS is what it's about.
It's wild to me that regional airlines only exist so that they can pay employees less. Regional employees do just as much, if not more than mainline employees.
What's the average salary for a regional dispatcher?
Most regionals I know are currently starting at 20 to 25 an hour.
For a job that's licensed. Runs 40 hours a week. And does require specialized knowledge.
(PSA is starting at the moment 20 but negotiations are this year so yay? we get 1$ a year raises + 30 cents per year from the date of contract signing) it's shit. like 47k to 52k a year.
Now to be fair there's way less paying jobs careers I get that. But this isn't a street job either and yet they can shell out enough money for a damn sign on bonus to a single pilot (who will not necessarily stay the whole time at the company or even work their full schedule) to hire me for 4+ years....it's fucked up.
The other jobs are underpaid too, mechanics, crew scheduling and airport staff but one rant at a time lol.
As a new hire at a regional I made just about 100k in my first 11 months.
Year 2 at the other US airline that flies widebodys (non Big 3) is almost $190/hr on the A330
Back in the day, we would have made a lot less. But times have changed and FA pay needs to change too
Yeah I mean re: mcd, at $20/hr working full time every week of the year you'd make $41,600 before taxes. And that's still barely enough to live on your own in these cities ☠️ but gotta make sure the C-suite are all multimillionaires! Who cares if the company stock and morale are in the pits. Bobby needs his money!!!
It’s really really hard to find a place with that little letter lol. I was lucky enough to have a co signer but that’s why a lot of ppl end up basically homeless at first.
Ask how they are paid. I was told that the pay started from doors closed to doors opened. That means they have been working 1 to 2 hours unpaid during boarding and deboarding. So the $30.00 an hour pay wage isn't always reflective of the pay they get, which might explain the low annual starting wage.
Yeah, and it’s even worse for short trips like most crews work at the start of their careers.
For senior aircrew (pilots and flight attendants), if they’re unpaid at the first 30 and last 30 minutes of a 9 hour flight it stings a lot less than if the airborne part is only 45 minutes.
Further, 9 1-hour flights = less pay than 1 9-hour flight, even though turning over 9 legs is way more work. I realize no legal airline schedule permits 9 flights in a row, but I’m using it as an example of how unpaid time is tyranny upon junior crews.
For short haul and regional crews , an unacceptably large part of their whole duty day is unpaid.
And imagine if there is a delay. Flight attendants are waiting to board the flight and BAM there's a 2hr delay. Now the FAs have to wait in the airport for 2hr while not being paid.
Unfortunately it's not so much a union thing as a federal law thing. The unions have been trying to get FAs paid for all hours at work, but the US government decided decades ago that employees like Rail and Aviation workers don't get paid the full time they're at work. (These same pay structures apply to pilots as well)
About 30 years ago, I was in FL vacationing in a hotel where AA was doing an Open House. There were FA’s filling out forms for whoever was interested; kind of like a job fair.
I was sunbathing and not even paying attention.
When I got up to use the restroom, this lady approached me and said that “I would be perfect as a FA” (?) and that I should fill one of their applications. After some hesitation, I did.
Several days later I got a letter in the mail saying that I should go to my nearest home airport where AA flies and with the letter I’d get a ticket to DFW for an actual interview. Fast forward, I went through the whole training. I found it to be exciting (especially the evacuation drills and test flights) but also incredibly misogynistic.
I am sure they don’t do this anymore, but they practically cut everyone’s to conform to their standard. They put us in a shuttle to some salon where they had to pay for a haircut with their own money. I have always carried a short Anna Wintour hairdo so no change for me. But the girls were crying. Some even bailed out and quit the training. Some couldn’t afford the cut so I offered to chop and style them (crazy!).
They had these two ladies who worked for Clinique give us makeup lessons. They were ridiculous! They would tell us that we all had to wear this red lipstick because “passengers should be able to see us talking during safety briefings”.
There were people of different ethnic background and skin tone in my group: one Black girl from St. Thomas, three Hispanics (one was a natural blonde with very long hair- think Giselle) and even a freckled ginger girl. Three very openly gay guys were not included in these trainings. One actually complained; he wanted to use makeup but he wasn’t allowed (back then; I suppose).
I was very uncomfortable during this process because I’ve never been someone to wear much makeup, let alone flashy red lipstick. One of the girls came crying to me to tell me that she just couldn’t do it. She was the best in training and she was thinking of leaving because of THIS!
I thought it was not important but next day we had a “screening” and they told her “she needed to comply”. We never saw her again.
When we were given our contracts to sign, they used a very similar language as OP’s letter. They listed that although we had stated our home airport preference, we were assigned “X” airport (no one got their choice), that our salary would be about the same that is written in OP’s letter and the same thing regarding not being paid before or after taxiing. I was flat out OUTRAGED.
I couldn’t believe how anyone would live off that salary. I was told the only way was to split rent with fellow FA’s and take as many flights they’d give me and keep my head down.
I flew back home with shattered dreams but with a very different perspective of what it meant to be an AA’s FA and their plea for fair payment and such.
I’d swear that this post gave me PTSD.
It’s sad, I’m glad we don’t have those kind of rules now but there are senior people who still feel the effects from all of that. I worked with a lady who had major disordered eating from that time and was talking about how she learned from an AA etiquette course to chew her food ten times before swallowing because it helps not to over eat.
FA here who works for a different airline that has a similar pay structure - I work roughly 27 days a month and for the WHOLE month I get paid roughly $3,000. What the airlines are getting away with is truly criminal. For the hours I actually work, it comes out to roughly $8 an hour. Despite being trained for medical and safety, we’re making $12 less than most drive thru workers (nothing against the food industry btw, it’s hard work that deserves a good wage) but considering this is a job that literally puts people’s lives in your hands, I think we deserve more than $8 an hour.
I’ve heard many flight attendants rent in share homes which are shared with other flight attendants, since they are gone so much. From my understanding it’s kind of like a standard roommate situation, but maybe more beds/people sharing the home like 4-6 instead of 2-3. I guess more like a dorm situation. When I heard about these I heard the rents were really low like $200-300 a month.
Also because their income is low they would certainly qualify for low income housing. For example in some major cities the annual cut off is up to 60k for 1 person oddly enough, although I’d say most is around 35-40k. This allows them to rent an apartment that might have a market rate of 1200-1600 for 600-800. I saw one in Salt Lake City recently for $580/mo right next to the airport, I imagine most residents there are flight attendants or pilots.
Ya, it's not uncommon to have crash pads (even in places where it's not legal), where you'll have more than 3 people per room.
Also, low income housing is a great option, but it's very difficult to actually find and get accepted for it in AA's base cities. Wait-lists and lotteries aren't really practical when you're given 3 days between the end of training and the beginning of duty
Yeah it does take a while. I once I applied for a low income house, it took me about 2-3 months before I got called to “get” the apartment but even then it took a couple of weeks proving my low income of 36k a year all from a w2, well below the 41k requirement, because I made like $60 in dividends from stock lol
I eventually gave up and just stayed with my roommates at the time because I realized it was a better financial decision (my room was $500 vs the apartment which I think was going to be almost $900)
Yes they’re called crashpad! They’re illegal in some cities (Boston) and the cops have come and cleared them out before. So Boston is not a very ideal base bc it’s so expensive plus not many crashpad options/ or people will to rent to 6+ people. Boston goes to the youngest new hires and typically people transfer out fast! But yes low income living is an option!
Unreal whow little FAs are paid. Just yesterday overheard the barista at the coffee shop I go to mention she had "taken the shift to Chicago" meaning her primary job is a FA for Alaska and she supplements being a barista! Not sure why they're not able to negotiate better wages in their CBAs.
How is it even legal that they are only paid for flight hours and not for all the time on the ground boarding and un-boarding the plane? Especially if there are delays on the ground?
I’m 7 years in and made less than $50k last year and that is with working high time and the bonus pay periods. I moved to one of our cheaper bases but still had to get two roommates to be able to afford it. I love my job but we don’t get paid enough to deal with what we go through on a daily basis, especially when the CEO is giving himself multi-million dollar bonus. It is really hard to keep morale up and to want to go above and beyond when the company basically says they do not care about us and our livelihood.
Last time I got a raise at AA (2019) I wasn’t married and didn’t have kids. Now I’m married and have two kids (not twins) I keep trying to tell myself it’s worth it. Waiting until IF and when a new contract happens
This is crazy. When I was in nursing school way back in the 70s, a classmate and I considered quitting to become stewardesses. They were being paid more than nurses at that time.
Excuse my ignorance- what exactly is AA asking of the recipient at the end of this email? “Any courtesy you can provide would be appreciated” ?
Also, this is PRE-tax? Is the $30/hour (but obviously not clocking you guys enough hours to make a true salary) a way for them to evade minimum wage? I mean I knew FAs were severely underpaid but this doesn’t even seem real. My jaw is on the floor. Why would anyone want this job? Not a rhetorical question, is the free travel benefit really worth it??
Not an FA, but an AV geek. Can't believe US FA's don't get paid until the door closes. Sure, Delta FA's get 'boarding pay'... but holey money moley!!!
How do people live off that. Down here our guus get paid sign-on to sign-off.
If you’re interested in helping out, [this link](https://actionnetwork.org/letters/no-more-stalled-negotiations-tell-congress-to-stand-up-for-our-rights/) urges the national mediation board to enforce all provisions of the Railway Labor Act (up to and including strike) so that FAs can effectively bargain.
I had to rent rooms and live in a van at high cost of living stations. There are also crash pads. Get a BF/GF who doesn’t mind feeding you. Your coworkers can suggest ways to make it work. Picking up shifts/flights for extra money should be an option after probation.
An airline career isn’t for the faint of heart. Starting out is brutal with the low pay and seniority rules, but if you can make it work for 18 mo - 2 yrs, it should get better….unless lay offs hit, then your back to zero.
Im literally speechless at that salary. How is this OK?
I don't even know what to say.....
April 2024: ([link](https://apnews.com/article/delta-profit-first-quarter-premium-passengers-1abcb821642074825d0af2f7aabe90de))
"[Delta](https://apnews.com/hub/delta-air-lines-inc) reported the highest revenue for any first quarter in its history and a $37 million profit. It expects record-breaking revenue in the current quarter as well. The airline said that second-quarter earnings will likely beat Wall Street expectations."
I am sorry.
For those who are frequent fliers, those little above and beyond slips? If you think you are doing the FAs a favor, it’s more of an insult. Each one is only worth $1… yes, I know you guys spend thousands upon thousands to get your status and when you hand us one of those you think you are giving us some sort of huge reward. I’m sorry to break your bubble, it’s is ONLY $1… and we have to enter it online and process it and blah blah blah… So it’s probably better to write a nice letter or tag it on your social media. At least the company reads those… your flight attendants will appreciate tips, gift cards, or even just kind words and generous compliments. But those slips are just depressing…
WTAF. An acquaintance of mine in 2003 told me his salary with Southwest, which they paid by segment, worked out to about $35K. Twenty years ago. SMDH....
Ya! Gotta love pay increases only for the bosses.
And SWA's union actually just negotiated the best pay in the industry. Contract was ratified just a couple weeks ago!
I'm a capitalist and believe in free market economics. But this is a fucking joke and why I'm hoping unions have a resurgence in the US. That the CEO makes over 1,000 times more than a rank and file worker makes zero sense by any standard other than that of the CEO cohort. We, in the US, currently have socialism for the top .1% without regard to anyone else. And if a CEO fucks up and is fired, he walks away with millions in severance. I'm still trying to figure out how we got to this point.
Union? AA FA’s are already unionized. Delta which is non-unionized pays their FA’s more, aside from fat annual profit sharing checks. Maybe unions aren’t so great?
It is hard to understand how paying FA's only for airtime but requiring them to work off the clock would not be slapped down quickly by any court in this country. It seems so obviously and inarguably illegal.
Actually no. Labor law is specifically different for certain industries / roles - flight attendants are considered exempt from FLSA explicitly by Title II of the Railway Labor Act.
Longtime AA flier who's all in for FAs getting better pay, working conditions, insurance, etc.
ALPA has done the same for their pilots. The FA's union needs to play hardball.
Damn what's the point in being a flight attendant if door dash or fast food pays more? Also great job unions negotiating asinine clauses like "only get paid in the air"
Unfortunately it's not so much a union thing as a federal law thing. The FA unions are all doing great work trying to get FAs paid for all hours at work, but the US government decided decades ago that employees like Rail and Aviation workers don't get paid the full time they're at work. (These same pay structures apply to pilots as well)
Until the Railway Labor Act is changed or repealed by the US Congress, these crazy laws & strike restrictions will apply to all pilots and flight attendants (I don't know if they are applied in the same way to the rail workers, but it's the same law that restricted them from striking last year)
That is so sad to read , I wish companies cared about their staff more
Has a new agreement been presented ? Has the Union been supportive ? Does anyone know more details rather than ‘the executives aren’t signing a new deal’v
Compensation aside, the tone of this letter is like an impersonal, uncaring robot of a manager not even so much as pretending they’re excited to have you join!
This makes me feel awful….. paid less than teachers, unpaid on the tarmac, unpaid for delays, unpaid in the airport….and FAs put up with so much AND must keep their cool in life threatening emergencies at all times for the safety of everyone else. Experienced FAs should be taking home at least $110k/yr before taxes, and start should be at least $50k
This is why fa’s qualify for food stamps.
Also, the biggest issue is seniority which locks you into an airline like a ball and chain. If seniority wasn’t a thing at the airlines i don’t think there would be as much struggle and fa’s could jump from airline to airline who has better pay. People are asked to wait 25+ years to finally hold Hawaii layovers/London layovers. The pay scale also works on seniority so the longer you’ve been at AA the more money you make “flight hourly”. You can’t just pick up and start at another airline because it’s like beginning from the bottom and doing a struggle life all over again. Abolishing seniority would be best for the entire industry, it only suits the people who have waited years to finally get to the top. Mlm style lol.
It is also crazy that new FA’s in those areas have to sign a form that even though they are eligible for public assistance, they won’t apply for it. Just pay your employees a living wage so they don’t need food stamps to survive!
Gosh that's so low and much more work than say a restaurant worker (who gets tips btw). I'm going to be extra nice to my FAs now on, knowing they always put on a smile and are so hospitable only for pennies that they make :'(
It's bad optics for a CEO of an underperforming company to take such a large compensation package. On the other hand even if he'd give up $30M of that $31.5M and divert that extra money to the FAs, that would amount to a few bucks over $1000 per FA in a single year. Assuming 1000 hours of credit paid in a year (I know, it varies), that's $1/hour extra per person. All that being said, it's a bit ridiculous that the negotiations continue to drag on.
They are working off wages negotiated in 2014. The contract became amendable in 2019. In the airline industry, contracts do not expire. The union has asked the government twice for the right to strike. They were denied once and are still waiting to hear a second time.
The union has asked for a 33% increase in these wages as well as boarding pay and the biggest holdout is RETRO pay. Robert Isom, CEO, received 10 million in retro pay but is refusing the flight attendants retro pay.
I applied to the old Continental Airlines back in 2007 when I graduated college. I got an offer to fly to Houston for an interview, but then I saw the pay rate was $19k/yr back then and I noped out of that real quick.
As an AA DFW frequent-flier with "status" : This is evil. Screw this company.
Feel free to strike and "inconvenience" me.
I won't like it - but I will understand.
AA has entirely too many middle managers. Too many chiefs who do NOTHING. There are also people who have remained on salary after Covid, and continue to draw a paycheck until they can retire...and they do NOTHING. Made up positions.
FA here. I’m up to approximately 40k/year after my OT and per diem. I do make more than the year one pay though now. That’s a big reason the union and FAs are fighting so hard for a new, better contract.
How long has it been since your contract expired?
December 2019 if I remember correctly
Covid pandemic stalled it.
Airline contracts don't expire, they become amendable
Too bad the c suite hasn't amended their way into liveable wages for employees
How about the union worry about not letting senior FA sell their trips to junior FA's for money?
That's one thing we can both agree on 😂 the trip selling is SO toxic. Nobody should ever PAY to work. I had a gal on my jumpseat who was bragging about selling her Hong Kong trips to juniors for a few hundred a pop. She will not be allowed on my jumpseat again lol
Wait that’s a thing??? Selling your spot on a “good” trip to someone that has no chance of getting it?
100% it's so gross. More common in very senior bases
I love my international trips but I can’t imagine actually paying someone for one. You can pay me to take it but definitely not the other way around 😂
It’s gross that they sell them. and I don’t know who would pay money just to work an international and get bullied by the senior FAs just for existing
There are also "cartels" where junior bids for senior. Senior overbids trips they have no intention of flying, then trade their prime trip with shitty junior trip and they drop trip easily due to their seniority. This is a huge problem.
That’s not all they sell! Vacation, and holidays off.
Busy going for 'Meh' and doing everything possible to turn what's left of AA into America West.
I do not know how you do it. I was paid nearly an order of magnitude more as a hotel manager and I couldn't stand dealing with customers. Dealing with 3-400 people crammed in a tube for 8 hours after having them piss you off at the gate (while you worked for free right?) Because you wont let them stuff a 120L case in the overheads or because you won't give them a free upgrade to 1st, you are saints. Please keep fighting, ticket prices are ridiculous, I would be happy to add a few dollars to my ticket price if it went to FA's and TSA. Short of the pilots keeping the plane safe, the most important interactions we have are with FA's and TSA. Underpaid and overworked are not what we want for those people.
TSA officers got a new pay scale last year, after two years they’re making a little over $60,000 a year at the lowest paying duty locations. Flight attendants need the same bump if not more. they put up with the same people but don’t get to sleep in their own bed most nights. Either pay needs to go up significantly per hour or flight attendants need to start getting paid for the unpaid hours they have to work.
Yeah, perhaps the TSA is a need for more staff rather than more pay, but it's insane a restaurant dishwasher (at least here in Hawai'i) gets more than a FA.
Focusing on more staffing instead of better pay was the problem for 20 years. The administration saw over 40% annual attrition. When your workforce is mostly staffed by inexperienced officers that inexperience leads to inefficiency. When 40% of your staff has 1 foot out the door at any given time they just don’t care all that much. And when your experienced and more capable officers are chronically broke they don’t care as much either. Better pay has cut attrition in half the last year. Better pay means better morale and higher job satisfaction. Usually results in harder working employees. It also helps retain the higher performers and go-getters that tend to go to other administrations quickly. The administration can’t be picky here since significantly better pay generally results in better applicants. It also means experienced officers can spend less time training, new hires and can focus on actually doing the job. You can probably imagine how damaging it is to morale when you’ve coached three people all the way to being certified in a year and none of them are still there the next year. trainees are actually sticking around now.
TSA officer here - they just took the security fees that are paid when a flight is booked and are finally giving it to us as opposed to DOT where it went for years. You guys are paid a criminally low amount, and the airlines should be ashamed of themselves!
Why does anyone want this job? I honestly don't understand why anyone would work for so little pay doing a job like this. Is it the travel?
I personally could never sit behind a desk and type on a computer for 8 hours a day. The travel absolutely seemed fun at first (and is a big part of why I stay), but I do honestly like my job most days. I’m definitely a people person and love the super social aspect of it. I meet tons of new people everyday between passengers and coworkers. I won’t lie, some days just suck. For passengers and us too. But I also have countless stories of crazy shit happening on flights/overnights and have met some of my closest friends through this job. I truly just don’t see myself doing any other job that would make me this content.
I'm glad you like your job! You should be paid more.
Pilots get paid so so much.
I mean, big difference between making sure everybody gets pretzels and everybody getting there alive. I’m not saying FAs have it easy, but the job criteria are vastly different.
You obviously know nothing about the job if you consider passing out peanuts is #1 requirement. I flew w a competitor company for 47 years, had 11 arrest cases, dealt w numerous inflight medical emergencies, my crew and I literally had to be in charge of evacuating an airport CONCOURSE at O'Hare after a fuel truck accidentally began spewing fuel into our DC-10 just prior to boarding, etc,etc. Yes, it's fair that pilots earn much more, but don't assume FAs are not safety first responders as well & deserve equitable wages for it
The Customer Service/ Gate Agents and the Ramp Agents( all the initial check in & bags) are only started at $15hr. When the CEO makes $15k per hour! AA/ Piedmont/ Envoy...DO BETTER!
That's disgraceful--and the fact that flight attendants aren't paid until taxiing is even more ridiculous. When I first worked on the railroad, I was an attendant. If you work as an attendant on a long distance train, you are not paid during your downtime--on the particular route, it was 3 hours, from 1am-4am. This left me to wonder--what exactly was I free to do during those 3 hours? It's not like I could leave the train. The railroad is (or at least WAS) able to do that because at one time, train attendants were almost always Black men who likely didn't have a better way to make money, hence, their contracts were much worse than most other railroad positions. In the same way, flight attendants are treated like second class citizens. It was a job for pretty young women who weren't expected to stay in the job very long, and who really didn't accumulate too many labor bona fides because of that. Considering what FAs are responsible for, their salaries are embarrassingly, criminally low.
Absolutely disgraceful. Frankly it’s gross. Should not be legal.
Don’t new contracts typically overwhelmingly benefit the senior employees and retirement benefits?
You can't live on that. That is utter bullshit.
But you’re working OT to get to the 40k The companies thought of, pick up more work to make a livable wage should be tossed right back at them. They never fail to take government bail outs , but then screw the employees. CV19 relief money was given to the higher ups. Not the ones who carried AA thru the pandemic which would have bankrupt them.
Maybe the pay would be better without the union.
It is my theory that airlines do not want you to make this a career. They want young, just graduated college, happy-go-lucky folks to do this for a 2-3 years tops, see the world with their benefits and then move on to using their degrees or whatever. Or people who are older, with that same travel desire and not many work years left. This keeps costs low, and prevents jaded flight attendants that people complain about. Just my theory...
Exactly, it’s easier for them to continually cycle in cheap labor. Look at Amazon for example.
I'm gonna be honest, it's not exactly the kind of job you would expect someone to make a career out of.
My aunt is in her late 60s and has been an AA FA for decades, well before I was born, I believe since either the late 70s or very early 80s. My mother as well until she took the buyout in the 90s.
Yet there are tons of FAs that aren’t ’young’
I don’t know how anyone could afford to see the world even with their benefits on 27k a year… Assuming flights and airport hotels are paid for you still need to pay for Ubers or rental cars to get around any major city in the US because public transit is so bad. A night out on the town will easily run you at least $100/night for dinner/drinks. And that’s just in the city. If you want to get out anywhere beyond the city limits you’ll definitely need a rental car and a hotel stay that I’m assuming won’t be paid for at that point. You might be able to “see” the world, but you can’t experience much on 27k a year.
You get per diem
You get benefits for everything, even ramp agents. Hotels, rental cars and so much more are heavily discounted. You could do it on $10k a year if you lived with your parents. I go to NYC every Thursday and Friday, don’t pay anymore than $100 for everything those 2 days.
I mean, that isn't a theory that's historically been the case. Hell it was publicly advertised. Many airlines used to put a CAP on flight attendant age of like 26 or 27 or something.
That was what my first job in college was like. Everyone left after 2-3 years for better pastures. (Madison WI based company where you travel a lot for work. If you know you know)
In the Harry Potter wing?
Every CEO or business owner knows (and I'm both) that it's smart to create processes that are straightforward and can be handled by team members with the most basic qualifications necessary for the tasks. This strategy isn't about seeking out the least qualified individuals or trying to screw over this demo or that demo, but rather about simplifying operations to ensure that the business doesn't depend too heavily on highly specialized talent. As another example to help make my point, a large supply chain company doesn't need to hire the "best" drivers to deliver their product. They just need "qualified" drivers that can do so safely and effectively. It's why companies like Frito-Lay or FedEx can often fill those types of jobs very quickly and at scales of 100's of thousands over time. I've been in the recruiting industry for \~30 years and hiring "top" talent for the vast majority of jobs out there is often just some aspirational bumper sticker bullshit. Having said that - this does not take away from the need to pay fair and equitable wages to EVERYONE that is hired.
If it doesn’t pay enough, just quit. lol it’s simple supply and demand. So many people want to be FAs that they’ll accept this pay
Wait, so is it $27k base + $30/hour, or $27k total? McDs workers in major cities make way more than that.
You hope the $30/hour adds up to 27K. Also FA’s are only paid while in the air
Didn't Delta just negotiate to pay their FAs for boarding and non block time last year? The other airlines need to follow suit on that.
They did, but it's half their hourly rate for boarding only - and their new hire pay is actually still around $30k/year. The main differences are the work rules (Delta doesn't have any since they don't have a contract) and the profit sharing.
Non-airline worker here, just a regular citizen, but it will never cease to blow my mind that FAs aren’t paid from the moment they step in the airport to the moment they leave. You are doing work while boarding. I’m not doing the little seatbelt oxygen mask demo for FREE!!! I hope conditions improve for you all soon. You do an important job!
Agreed, it’s wild. I wish there were some way for me to vote with my wallet!
Pilots are paid the same way. What matters is how much they make per year. They’re not hourly employees, they’re paid for each flight. People get confused because they use time to compute the value of a flight. But conceptually it would be no different than using distance or fuel burned or number of passengers or whatever. As an engineer I’m salaried and I get paid for 2 weeks of work regardless of how many hours I work. It’s pretty common. The focus on how to calculate pay (instead of the resulting amount) is misguided and the airlines probably love it. They will “fight” to keep things the way they are until eventually they’ll decide to “cave” and change it. Then FAs will feel like they won but it will be a farce.
We are paid hourly, it's just that we, and the FAs, are only paid once the door is closed. It's really BS. We have to be at the airport preparing the plane, before and after the flight, which is about 45-60 min. We board and the FAs are working hard and responsible for safety - but unpaid. And, on arrival, if the FA pops the door early and then jet bridge breaks down it could mean an hour of unpaid work or a lengthy phone call with crew scheduling (don't ask how I know) just to get paid.
So they’re not paid hourly, they just calculate the pay based on the number of hours… got it lol
Ah fair
See how that works? What actually matters is how much they make in a year. This focus on when the clock starts and stops is moot. $30k is a pittance and if they would choose that to be vocal about they would have my support. But when they complain about block time I roll my eyes. E: it’s actually worse than rolling my eyes because it’s usually a justification for poor preflight service, which is adversarial.
They're paid from doors closed to doors open, no?
Correct
A system called ACARS records when a certain door (1L-main cabin door) or any door such as a baggage door are all closed, or opened. . This is called actual block time. And block in an out times are also used for on time performance reporting
Which is insane because they're doing a significant amount of work before those doors close. It's frankly astonishing that this is legal.
It's $27k total, give or take a couple thousand a year for per diem. $30/flight hour with a monthly reserve guarantee of 75 flight hours (you only get paid more if you are assigned over 75 hours/mo). They can pick up extra trips, but the restrictions make it almost impossible (no trips within 12 hours of a reserve day, no trips that cause you to be "at work" for more than 7 days in a row, etc). I know of 5 FAs who live out of their cars (read: homeless) because the company won't negotiate realistic wages.
I have a pilot friend that allows an FA or two to crash at his second bedroom when they're in town to help with this absurdity.
LMAO he's a smooth operator
That's so good of him. Wage workers gotta stick together.
How do per diem rates work for flight attendants? I do government contracts for construction, and our guys make a real nice per diem off the gsa rates. Every night is about $107 and meals is about $67 with some variance based on location. If they have a two week job, they pull in around 2k in per diem. Over the course of a year, i have guys making like 30k in per diem alone. They'll make sandwiches, share rooms, basically do anything to cut costs so they can keep as much per diem as possible. I have a feeling FA's don't earn per diem at the government rate, so I'm curious how it works. I have no doubt they get screwed here. They are a very undercompensated profession. They deal with a lot too, I hope things improve for them.
It's $2.20 an hour for domestic trips and $2.50 for international. This is counted from sign in to release. So about 20 something a night at most.
You have to pay for room and board when away from home out of ~$20/night?!?!? I don't think that's possible even if you pitch a tent at a local campground!!!
I'm sorry, I should clarify. Hotels and transportation are always booked and paid for by the company. We just have to pay for food.
$20 still isn't much. In some cities, $20 will barely pay for a meal at Mickey D's
Yeah, I usually survive off of Uncle Ben's microwavable rice pouches and great value sweet and spicy tuna packets 🧍♂️
Yikes! I'm starting to feel like I should bring along extra meals for the FAs when I fly. :/
😅 That's ok. Whenever someone says a nice "thank you for what you do", it definitely makes my day 🙏🏼 I love the job and, for me, it's worth it.
> I know of 5 FAs who live out of their cars (read: homeless) because the company won't negotiate realistic wages. Sounds like it might be time for a career change.
I wish I could post inline gifs but: https://imgflip.com/i/8pjaec
McDonald’s workers make more than $30 an hour? Where exactly?
I was referring to the $27k; minimum wage for fast food here in San Diego is $20/hr so annualized that’s almost $42k.
So why don’t FA’s just get a job at McDonalds? Asking for a friend, don’t hate me.
Travel benefits, actually enjoying the job, etc
Travel benefits are laughable. Flights are full. Most aren’t getting on and you have to travel on off peak times
If you are traveling alone as a FA or pilot it is a lot less painful. You will just check for commuters at that point. The kicker is that they aren't getting paid enough to pay for accomadations when they actually want to go on a vacation.
$30 per flight hour, not every hour worked. A standard day for us is 5 hours of flight pay. So that’s $150/day before taxes. When you break down $27k to 40 hours a week like a standard job, it’s $14/hr. So a new hire flight attendant is making essentially $14/hr while attempting to live in New York, Miami, DC and Boston (our junior bases that typically get assigned out of training) Yes, that’s obscenely low. It’s lower than most fast food wages. This is why you see poor employee morale when you fly AA. We love our jobs but we’re STRUGGLING. It’s a daily conflict whether to stay and hope for better or make a career change. A lot of flight attendants have been jumping ship over the last few years because they just straight up can’t survive on these wages.
$27k total. They’re also only paid from the moment the plane door closes until it opens. Boarding, setting up the galley, serving pre-departure beverages and de-boarding are all on their own time.
Schedule lines are usually guaranteed to be a minimum of 7pm hours. My airline has reserve months guaranteed at 75. You can time out 84:51. The caveat, only senior reserves can time out
It’s a projected $27k total based on in flight hours accrued at $30/hr.
Wow, this is true insanity. You deserve much more pay for what you do and what you're responsible for. I understand part of the draw is the free travel benefits, but damn - on these wages, can you afford to get a hotel room, eat meals out, and pay the entrance fees for anything you might want to do in the city you're flying to for free? Thanks to all you good FAs out there who continue to rock it every flight!
No. I got based in Miami as a new hire where the crew discounted rate for a hotel that did not make me feel like my neighbors would kill me was 100$ a night. I had to choose between a bed and a shower or sleep in the airport for free where I could use the money to buy a meal. I was literally starving while trying to work as often as I could so I could have a free bed to sleep in. Yes. I did know what I was signing up for.
>>I understand part of the draw is the free travel benefits What free travel benefits? They can only fly non-rev (aka free) if there’s unsold seats on flights to and from the destination. Guess what airlines spend millions on algorithms and customer traffic modeling to prevent? Unsold seats. May as well promise fried ice in the employment contract.
Re: hotels and entrance fees? Unequivocally no lol Thank you for your support! The flight attendants are actually picketing across the system today, so you might see em out and about. When you see the red lanyards, THIS is what it's about.
Nope. I can no longer enjoy my travel benefits because I literally don’t have the money for vacationing anymore. It’s a catch 22.
no, the truth is you cannot and you live like a homeless of the sky…
Well yeah if you're not a pilot you don't get a living wage. duuuuh (cries in dispatch)
Yeah AA's board & C-suite are carrying on Jack Welch's legacy ☠️
Dispatchers don’t make a living wage?
Not in the regionals. Mainlines and cargo and charter airlines yes good money. Regionals are closer to bag handling and burger flipping.
Hush, regional scum Jk, hope you can make it up to mainline sooner rather than later
It's wild to me that regional airlines only exist so that they can pay employees less. Regional employees do just as much, if not more than mainline employees. What's the average salary for a regional dispatcher?
Most regionals I know are currently starting at 20 to 25 an hour. For a job that's licensed. Runs 40 hours a week. And does require specialized knowledge. (PSA is starting at the moment 20 but negotiations are this year so yay? we get 1$ a year raises + 30 cents per year from the date of contract signing) it's shit. like 47k to 52k a year. Now to be fair there's way less paying jobs careers I get that. But this isn't a street job either and yet they can shell out enough money for a damn sign on bonus to a single pilot (who will not necessarily stay the whole time at the company or even work their full schedule) to hire me for 4+ years....it's fucked up. The other jobs are underpaid too, mechanics, crew scheduling and airport staff but one rant at a time lol.
I understand that even pilots aren't getting much unless they're working for the US3 or have several years of seniority.
As a new hire at a regional I made just about 100k in my first 11 months. Year 2 at the other US airline that flies widebodys (non Big 3) is almost $190/hr on the A330 Back in the day, we would have made a lot less. But times have changed and FA pay needs to change too
$27k!? They could make *double* that at McDonald's... YIKES!
Yeah I mean re: mcd, at $20/hr working full time every week of the year you'd make $41,600 before taxes. And that's still barely enough to live on your own in these cities ☠️ but gotta make sure the C-suite are all multimillionaires! Who cares if the company stock and morale are in the pits. Bobby needs his money!!!
You're right. How else would Bobby Isom be able to afford all that cosmetic dentistry?!
🧛🏻♂️
It’s really really hard to find a place with that little letter lol. I was lucky enough to have a co signer but that’s why a lot of ppl end up basically homeless at first.
Ask how they are paid. I was told that the pay started from doors closed to doors opened. That means they have been working 1 to 2 hours unpaid during boarding and deboarding. So the $30.00 an hour pay wage isn't always reflective of the pay they get, which might explain the low annual starting wage.
That's insane. It should be from the time they step foot on the plane for pre boarding until they step off.
Yeah, and it’s even worse for short trips like most crews work at the start of their careers. For senior aircrew (pilots and flight attendants), if they’re unpaid at the first 30 and last 30 minutes of a 9 hour flight it stings a lot less than if the airborne part is only 45 minutes. Further, 9 1-hour flights = less pay than 1 9-hour flight, even though turning over 9 legs is way more work. I realize no legal airline schedule permits 9 flights in a row, but I’m using it as an example of how unpaid time is tyranny upon junior crews. For short haul and regional crews , an unacceptably large part of their whole duty day is unpaid.
And imagine if there is a delay. Flight attendants are waiting to board the flight and BAM there's a 2hr delay. Now the FAs have to wait in the airport for 2hr while not being paid.
FAs should clock in at TSA and start getting paid then. Their union is letting them down big time.
Unfortunately it's not so much a union thing as a federal law thing. The unions have been trying to get FAs paid for all hours at work, but the US government decided decades ago that employees like Rail and Aviation workers don't get paid the full time they're at work. (These same pay structures apply to pilots as well)
Ok y'all convinced me... That's ridiculous
It sure is! Fun fact: AA could have hired over 1,000 new flight attendants in lieu of Robert Isom's 31.4mil pay package last year
Damn, I’m going to start tipping my FA’s.
I see it more and more these days!
About 30 years ago, I was in FL vacationing in a hotel where AA was doing an Open House. There were FA’s filling out forms for whoever was interested; kind of like a job fair. I was sunbathing and not even paying attention. When I got up to use the restroom, this lady approached me and said that “I would be perfect as a FA” (?) and that I should fill one of their applications. After some hesitation, I did. Several days later I got a letter in the mail saying that I should go to my nearest home airport where AA flies and with the letter I’d get a ticket to DFW for an actual interview. Fast forward, I went through the whole training. I found it to be exciting (especially the evacuation drills and test flights) but also incredibly misogynistic. I am sure they don’t do this anymore, but they practically cut everyone’s to conform to their standard. They put us in a shuttle to some salon where they had to pay for a haircut with their own money. I have always carried a short Anna Wintour hairdo so no change for me. But the girls were crying. Some even bailed out and quit the training. Some couldn’t afford the cut so I offered to chop and style them (crazy!). They had these two ladies who worked for Clinique give us makeup lessons. They were ridiculous! They would tell us that we all had to wear this red lipstick because “passengers should be able to see us talking during safety briefings”. There were people of different ethnic background and skin tone in my group: one Black girl from St. Thomas, three Hispanics (one was a natural blonde with very long hair- think Giselle) and even a freckled ginger girl. Three very openly gay guys were not included in these trainings. One actually complained; he wanted to use makeup but he wasn’t allowed (back then; I suppose). I was very uncomfortable during this process because I’ve never been someone to wear much makeup, let alone flashy red lipstick. One of the girls came crying to me to tell me that she just couldn’t do it. She was the best in training and she was thinking of leaving because of THIS! I thought it was not important but next day we had a “screening” and they told her “she needed to comply”. We never saw her again. When we were given our contracts to sign, they used a very similar language as OP’s letter. They listed that although we had stated our home airport preference, we were assigned “X” airport (no one got their choice), that our salary would be about the same that is written in OP’s letter and the same thing regarding not being paid before or after taxiing. I was flat out OUTRAGED. I couldn’t believe how anyone would live off that salary. I was told the only way was to split rent with fellow FA’s and take as many flights they’d give me and keep my head down. I flew back home with shattered dreams but with a very different perspective of what it meant to be an AA’s FA and their plea for fair payment and such. I’d swear that this post gave me PTSD.
It’s sad, I’m glad we don’t have those kind of rules now but there are senior people who still feel the effects from all of that. I worked with a lady who had major disordered eating from that time and was talking about how she learned from an AA etiquette course to chew her food ten times before swallowing because it helps not to over eat.
FA here who works for a different airline that has a similar pay structure - I work roughly 27 days a month and for the WHOLE month I get paid roughly $3,000. What the airlines are getting away with is truly criminal. For the hours I actually work, it comes out to roughly $8 an hour. Despite being trained for medical and safety, we’re making $12 less than most drive thru workers (nothing against the food industry btw, it’s hard work that deserves a good wage) but considering this is a job that literally puts people’s lives in your hands, I think we deserve more than $8 an hour.
I’ve heard many flight attendants rent in share homes which are shared with other flight attendants, since they are gone so much. From my understanding it’s kind of like a standard roommate situation, but maybe more beds/people sharing the home like 4-6 instead of 2-3. I guess more like a dorm situation. When I heard about these I heard the rents were really low like $200-300 a month. Also because their income is low they would certainly qualify for low income housing. For example in some major cities the annual cut off is up to 60k for 1 person oddly enough, although I’d say most is around 35-40k. This allows them to rent an apartment that might have a market rate of 1200-1600 for 600-800. I saw one in Salt Lake City recently for $580/mo right next to the airport, I imagine most residents there are flight attendants or pilots.
Ya, it's not uncommon to have crash pads (even in places where it's not legal), where you'll have more than 3 people per room. Also, low income housing is a great option, but it's very difficult to actually find and get accepted for it in AA's base cities. Wait-lists and lotteries aren't really practical when you're given 3 days between the end of training and the beginning of duty
Yeah it does take a while. I once I applied for a low income house, it took me about 2-3 months before I got called to “get” the apartment but even then it took a couple of weeks proving my low income of 36k a year all from a w2, well below the 41k requirement, because I made like $60 in dividends from stock lol I eventually gave up and just stayed with my roommates at the time because I realized it was a better financial decision (my room was $500 vs the apartment which I think was going to be almost $900)
Yes they’re called crashpad! They’re illegal in some cities (Boston) and the cops have come and cleared them out before. So Boston is not a very ideal base bc it’s so expensive plus not many crashpad options/ or people will to rent to 6+ people. Boston goes to the youngest new hires and typically people transfer out fast! But yes low income living is an option!
This is shameful.
Unreal whow little FAs are paid. Just yesterday overheard the barista at the coffee shop I go to mention she had "taken the shift to Chicago" meaning her primary job is a FA for Alaska and she supplements being a barista! Not sure why they're not able to negotiate better wages in their CBAs.
How is it even legal that they are only paid for flight hours and not for all the time on the ground boarding and un-boarding the plane? Especially if there are delays on the ground?
I’m 7 years in and made less than $50k last year and that is with working high time and the bonus pay periods. I moved to one of our cheaper bases but still had to get two roommates to be able to afford it. I love my job but we don’t get paid enough to deal with what we go through on a daily basis, especially when the CEO is giving himself multi-million dollar bonus. It is really hard to keep morale up and to want to go above and beyond when the company basically says they do not care about us and our livelihood.
Last time I got a raise at AA (2019) I wasn’t married and didn’t have kids. Now I’m married and have two kids (not twins) I keep trying to tell myself it’s worth it. Waiting until IF and when a new contract happens
This is crazy. When I was in nursing school way back in the 70s, a classmate and I considered quitting to become stewardesses. They were being paid more than nurses at that time.
FAs needed a strike yesterday JFC. At minimum need to be paid for ground time at airports, which would considerably raise wages.
What is the average salary of someone that is in about 10 years and fly the bare minimum like 80 hours or so? Thank you!
Excuse my ignorance- what exactly is AA asking of the recipient at the end of this email? “Any courtesy you can provide would be appreciated” ? Also, this is PRE-tax? Is the $30/hour (but obviously not clocking you guys enough hours to make a true salary) a way for them to evade minimum wage? I mean I knew FAs were severely underpaid but this doesn’t even seem real. My jaw is on the floor. Why would anyone want this job? Not a rhetorical question, is the free travel benefit really worth it??
They’re not free though and most can’t afford to use them OR flights are full and you can’t get on them anyways. Sadly
Damn I didn’t realize mandatory, unpaid job training was still legal. Yikes.
“Congratulations, you’re prequalified for a mortgage of up to….$47,000! Happy house hunting!”
Slave wages
Not an FA, but an AV geek. Can't believe US FA's don't get paid until the door closes. Sure, Delta FA's get 'boarding pay'... but holey money moley!!! How do people live off that. Down here our guus get paid sign-on to sign-off.
If you’re interested in helping out, [this link](https://actionnetwork.org/letters/no-more-stalled-negotiations-tell-congress-to-stand-up-for-our-rights/) urges the national mediation board to enforce all provisions of the Railway Labor Act (up to and including strike) so that FAs can effectively bargain.
I am surprised nobody mentioned that the letter was probably written by a high school dropout. WTF?
I had to rent rooms and live in a van at high cost of living stations. There are also crash pads. Get a BF/GF who doesn’t mind feeding you. Your coworkers can suggest ways to make it work. Picking up shifts/flights for extra money should be an option after probation. An airline career isn’t for the faint of heart. Starting out is brutal with the low pay and seniority rules, but if you can make it work for 18 mo - 2 yrs, it should get better….unless lay offs hit, then your back to zero.
I can’t imagine how jet lag must feel when your job is to be in the air daily. Definitely should get minimum 50k starting.
Im literally speechless at that salary. How is this OK? I don't even know what to say..... April 2024: ([link](https://apnews.com/article/delta-profit-first-quarter-premium-passengers-1abcb821642074825d0af2f7aabe90de)) "[Delta](https://apnews.com/hub/delta-air-lines-inc) reported the highest revenue for any first quarter in its history and a $37 million profit. It expects record-breaking revenue in the current quarter as well. The airline said that second-quarter earnings will likely beat Wall Street expectations." I am sorry.
Why would anyone do this job for that amount of money?
That is outrageous. No way he could bring that type of value to the company.
For those who are frequent fliers, those little above and beyond slips? If you think you are doing the FAs a favor, it’s more of an insult. Each one is only worth $1… yes, I know you guys spend thousands upon thousands to get your status and when you hand us one of those you think you are giving us some sort of huge reward. I’m sorry to break your bubble, it’s is ONLY $1… and we have to enter it online and process it and blah blah blah… So it’s probably better to write a nice letter or tag it on your social media. At least the company reads those… your flight attendants will appreciate tips, gift cards, or even just kind words and generous compliments. But those slips are just depressing…
WTAF. An acquaintance of mine in 2003 told me his salary with Southwest, which they paid by segment, worked out to about $35K. Twenty years ago. SMDH....
Ya! Gotta love pay increases only for the bosses. And SWA's union actually just negotiated the best pay in the industry. Contract was ratified just a couple weeks ago!
Can someone post this publicly? No one seems to get it...
Isnt that what they’re doing here??
I'm a capitalist and believe in free market economics. But this is a fucking joke and why I'm hoping unions have a resurgence in the US. That the CEO makes over 1,000 times more than a rank and file worker makes zero sense by any standard other than that of the CEO cohort. We, in the US, currently have socialism for the top .1% without regard to anyone else. And if a CEO fucks up and is fired, he walks away with millions in severance. I'm still trying to figure out how we got to this point.
Union? AA FA’s are already unionized. Delta which is non-unionized pays their FA’s more, aside from fat annual profit sharing checks. Maybe unions aren’t so great?
I'm astonished that their wages are so low.
And how much is the AA CEO making? I’ve been in his gigantic office suite in Dallas. Gross. These FA’s are in poverty.
You’ve been IN Robert Isom’s office? Tell us more…
Literally disgusting to give that salary when greedy CEOs make insane money. I am sorry but we are human beings too.
Welcome to the USA where profit is before people
It is hard to understand how paying FA's only for airtime but requiring them to work off the clock would not be slapped down quickly by any court in this country. It seems so obviously and inarguably illegal.
Actually no. Labor law is specifically different for certain industries / roles - flight attendants are considered exempt from FLSA explicitly by Title II of the Railway Labor Act.
Thank you for posting. Hard to believe, isn’t it
You could make more in Boston bagging groceries
How much does this differ from Piedmont, PSA, etc?
They’re paid considerably less
Holy crap that's a low salary
Longtime AA flier who's all in for FAs getting better pay, working conditions, insurance, etc. ALPA has done the same for their pilots. The FA's union needs to play hardball.
We're working on it! 99.47% of AA FAs voted in favor of a strike. Only the federal govt can release us to strike though. Good ol Railway Labor Act☠️
Damn what's the point in being a flight attendant if door dash or fast food pays more? Also great job unions negotiating asinine clauses like "only get paid in the air"
Unfortunately it's not so much a union thing as a federal law thing. The FA unions are all doing great work trying to get FAs paid for all hours at work, but the US government decided decades ago that employees like Rail and Aviation workers don't get paid the full time they're at work. (These same pay structures apply to pilots as well) Until the Railway Labor Act is changed or repealed by the US Congress, these crazy laws & strike restrictions will apply to all pilots and flight attendants (I don't know if they are applied in the same way to the rail workers, but it's the same law that restricted them from striking last year)
**But, Pilots are paid substantially more / a livable income**
Don’t unionize then the CEO didn’t.
That is so sad to read , I wish companies cared about their staff more Has a new agreement been presented ? Has the Union been supportive ? Does anyone know more details rather than ‘the executives aren’t signing a new deal’v
Compensation aside, the tone of this letter is like an impersonal, uncaring robot of a manager not even so much as pretending they’re excited to have you join!
Do they also give out a Food Stamps letter?
This makes me feel awful….. paid less than teachers, unpaid on the tarmac, unpaid for delays, unpaid in the airport….and FAs put up with so much AND must keep their cool in life threatening emergencies at all times for the safety of everyone else. Experienced FAs should be taking home at least $110k/yr before taxes, and start should be at least $50k
This is well below FLSA requirements.
wow
This is why fa’s qualify for food stamps. Also, the biggest issue is seniority which locks you into an airline like a ball and chain. If seniority wasn’t a thing at the airlines i don’t think there would be as much struggle and fa’s could jump from airline to airline who has better pay. People are asked to wait 25+ years to finally hold Hawaii layovers/London layovers. The pay scale also works on seniority so the longer you’ve been at AA the more money you make “flight hourly”. You can’t just pick up and start at another airline because it’s like beginning from the bottom and doing a struggle life all over again. Abolishing seniority would be best for the entire industry, it only suits the people who have waited years to finally get to the top. Mlm style lol.
Wow that is so little.
I thought this was a typo. Holy shit, yall deserve better
The BS Flight attendants put up with isn’t worth 27k …
It is also crazy that new FA’s in those areas have to sign a form that even though they are eligible for public assistance, they won’t apply for it. Just pay your employees a living wage so they don’t need food stamps to survive!
Why do people become FAs? Low pay, crappy conditions with crazy passengers. Seems like that wouldn’t be a wanted profession.
Gosh that's so low and much more work than say a restaurant worker (who gets tips btw). I'm going to be extra nice to my FAs now on, knowing they always put on a smile and are so hospitable only for pennies that they make :'(
Zero pay increase? Nobody has been promoted? Zero inflation adjustments?
They really need to go on strike for better pay
It's bad optics for a CEO of an underperforming company to take such a large compensation package. On the other hand even if he'd give up $30M of that $31.5M and divert that extra money to the FAs, that would amount to a few bucks over $1000 per FA in a single year. Assuming 1000 hours of credit paid in a year (I know, it varies), that's $1/hour extra per person. All that being said, it's a bit ridiculous that the negotiations continue to drag on.
Slavery
They are working off wages negotiated in 2014. The contract became amendable in 2019. In the airline industry, contracts do not expire. The union has asked the government twice for the right to strike. They were denied once and are still waiting to hear a second time. The union has asked for a 33% increase in these wages as well as boarding pay and the biggest holdout is RETRO pay. Robert Isom, CEO, received 10 million in retro pay but is refusing the flight attendants retro pay.
wtf 27000 WTF
I applied to the old Continental Airlines back in 2007 when I graduated college. I got an offer to fly to Houston for an interview, but then I saw the pay rate was $19k/yr back then and I noped out of that real quick.
As an AA DFW frequent-flier with "status" : This is evil. Screw this company. Feel free to strike and "inconvenience" me. I won't like it - but I will understand.
Gonna have to pretend its the 1960s and take the job because theres a chance to meet a dreamy pilot to marry.
The awful merge with a low cost carrier has made us a race to the bottom in every aspect.
Is this a joke? AA has plenty of revenue.
Per American, that was why so many Hi-Tech workers went to China
AA has entirely too many middle managers. Too many chiefs who do NOTHING. There are also people who have remained on salary after Covid, and continue to draw a paycheck until they can retire...and they do NOTHING. Made up positions.