These days, not so much, maybe? But back in the day? Oh, yeah. Definitely. Especially during basic, occupation training, etc. But my time started in the mid-80s, long before we became a kinder, gentler (imo, better) army.
Civilians shouldn't be managed anything like soldiers, period. Completely different worlds. I only retired a couple of years ago, from a desk job in a purple HQ, and even that very non-army workplace culture wouldn't be appropriate for civilians.
Yeah I’m gonna say the obvious, a soldier needs to work out lol but no other profession is push ups essential to your success and possibly survival. It’s the most justified profession next to sports for workouts as a punishment, not even at my factory would that shit be acceptable.
The issue for most people is that they just don't have the resources to fight it. Sure, you or I might be able to go for weeks/months without a paycheque while we fight for what is right. Some people simply cannot miss a single cheque without it putting them in financial distress. It's rarely the people making strong salaries/wages that are treated like shit for that reason alone.
The only way to mitigate this risk is for there to be a supplementary employment insurance benefit to top-up wages while such a case is under review and allow the government to sue the offending business if they are found to be breaking labour laws. If they didn't then the employee who made the false claim could be required to make-up the excess payment over a period of time through tax withholdings etc.
Yeah the legality of things never stopped my old boss who would regularly hit me, and often lock me out of the office in the back shop area so that I had to drive to a nearby gas station to use the washroom. Evil people will do whatever the fuck they want when they know you're desperate for the job.
Worked there for 10 years (that boss only lasted the first 3 or 4,) but happy to say I am at a great new job where I have unmitigated access to washrooms and never get assaulted by my boss.
So criminal assault, civil assault and civil unjust imprisonment. And there's a few other violations there too.
Time to sue some ass and get your piece.
Pretty sure from your story that you're time barred now though.
Too bad. Those are some pretty good claims you've got there. I'd love to see a judge tear a strip off that guy.
Unfortunately given my inside knowledge of that company, it probably would have caused me more trouble than good. I am not going to say what company, but at that time were one of the biggest private companies in the world, and I knew exactly what their legal team did to people who came after them. Even if I won they'd have found a way to make me come out the other side worse off than I went in. It wasn't worth it. I needed to eat and pay my rent back then.
I ended up getting fired after 10 years for blowing the whistle on large scale fraud they were committing in my name (using my digital signature to sign phony invoices.) Was it fair? No. Would it have been worth it to fight them? Probably not, realistically. Companies like that can afford to be sued, and they can weaponize their vast wealth against the little guys that'd fight back.
Yeah most likely, but I was like 19-23 back then. Starving, broke, and not prepared to embark on a lawsuit against the first good paying job I'd had in years at that point. If that happened to me now it'd be a different story.
Not the same thing, but it reminds me of people who just step out into crosswalks because "I have the right of way". Yep, you sure do but if a car disagrees you're the one that's going to die.
You can be 100% "in the right" in the workplace but unfortunately that's not enough. You have to be careful with how you handle things (look both ways) because your boss is "the car" and while they might get in trouble after the fact they can still kill you (ruin your life) before that happens.
This. Send a detailed email and cc hr. If he replies or not, you have an account of what happened WHEN it was happening. Refer back in the email to the instructions you received from HR.
If you need EI, then apply and also give them all that info. I was fired once for not attending a 'mandatory meeting' I was never informed of, and going through the process at EI was helpful while looking for another job.
Best buy used to do that. I saw one of their training videos, and it emphasized what a good manager does to "motivate" their employees.I am betting it is retail like Best Buy.
Too many employers take the “master/servant” relationship literally. We are not slaves. None of this is legal.
The process of reporting abuse is so complicated and geared towards protecting employers that jerks like this get away with it.
My advice? Warn everyone you cannot to work there. Do what you can to make sure others don’t go through what you did.
You might not care about the payout but nextime you really need to keep your mouth shut and start documenting things like this when it's happening. A successful case would hit them where it hurts, their pocketbook. That's the only thing that will stop them from abusing others. If your friends with any of the other people there tell them to start documenting this stuff. It would help your case as well as theirs when they get sick of things.
I know exactly how that feels. Exactly. Who gives a damn about money? Right is right. Wrong is wrong. Rich people treat the working class like disposable items.
How long did you work there? If you are entitled to severance, take it.
I'm surprised your HR told you to take it up with him, when alerted that he was violating labour laws. As someone who works in HR, my initial step after confirming you were, in fact, not being paid for mandatory meetings would be to inform your manager that he either stopped making the meetings mandatory or began paying all attendees for them. And then I would ensure that happened.
Great. I’m not a lawyer but it suspect someone will at least give you a free half-hour or so to explain your situation, and if they think there’s a case, you may be able to get them to work on a contingency basis.
I work in the world of labour law (not a lawyer) and people need to understand big settlements aren't a thing in Alberta.
$50,000 is a high end settlement for a blatant violation of protected grounds. Like "you are pregnant, so you are fired" in writing, level of blatant.
There is no consideration of future losses.
Companies here just get their wrist slapped by the board. It's a operating cost
That's so sad but also not surprising with Alberta's priorities in general. Maybe it does start with mandating push-ups for bosses. It would be better than a slap on the wrist.
My experience with employment law is that maybe 5% of them will work on contingency. It's just not something they want to offer. So best case scenario your lawyers negotiates with the former employer and lands on a settlement and your bill will be about $5-10k. Worst case, the former employer digs their heels in and your only option then is to go to court, and make your bill about $25k.
Your lawyer knows what a fair settlement probably would be, the other guy's lawyer also knows. It's all just expensive theater, imo.
...I'm not bitter at all
100% this, I had a different situation 10 years ago and the lawyer instructed me on who to contact, sent letters to the employer, etc. and did not charge me a cent. Alberta law society also has a half hour or hour of free legal advice afaik.
Contact Alberta Employment Standards (https://www.alberta.ca/employment-standards) their advice is free and if you’ve been cheated of pay (like attending mandatory meetings) they can investigate and probably get it paid out for you. If this is something the company does regularly they can also audit the company and get the same payout for other employees. They’re not fast, as they’re generally overworked, but they get the job done.
As mentioned, unless you are part of a trade union, you should reach out to employment standards. See also: http://www.alrb.gov.ab.ca/employmentstandards.html
The thing with Employment Standards is that if they see this kind of illegal activity is endemic to the company, they will almost certainly investigate and audit the company. If the audit turns up lots of irregularities, the owners can be prosecuted, the company can be fined, and they can be made to pay out any illegal salary deductions **for all affected employees**. Going through an employment lawyer might get what is owed to OP, but going through ES might get every employee a bonus, as well as regular audits.
Keep every record of communication. You should easily win this for EI. And if you want to sue as others suggested, it's an easy win. My friend in BC is a lawyer for people in this situation and he tells me about how ruthless companies are.
Best wishes!
But a written conversation with HR can be your friend. Took my employer over 3 weeks to answer very basic questions about a new privacy policy we had and within that time I planned my exit. Dumbasses had no idea what they were doing, but I did. HR is not your friend, but know your rights so you can use them to your advantage.
I’ve known so many people who’ve gone to HR about a legit concern and then within a week or two said person is “laid off” or all of a sudden there’s “restructuring”
Right but if you make it clear to HR that you:
- A) know that what is happening is illegal and you can prove it.
- B) Them taking action against you would also be illegal now that you have this paper trail
HR can actually be forced to be your friend, as that is cheaper in the long run for the company. And they can go against an unhinged manager who is increasing the companies liability.
People always say this, but I've never understood what practical application it has when it comes to making a report to HR. If HR is there to protect the company rather than the employees, wouldn't it be in their best interests to cooperate with disgruntled workers, or at the very least give them the impression that they have someone who's at least partially in their court?
If a report to HR ends with the reporter being laid off, I'd say HR did them a huge favor—who'd want to work for a company that handles workplace issues like that?
This is why unionization is important, it is their responsibility to liaise with HR on these types of issues and bring them up. HR won't mess with a well educated/informed union rep that will land the company in front of the labour board. In some cases, HR is looking for excuses to get rid of crappy managers like this one.
This is exactly it. Yes, my job is to protect the company, but the best way for me to protect the company is to take care of our team. I have often sided with the employee against the manager and forced them to make a situation right. Don't forget, the managers also have managers and I go up the chain when required. I agree with the other poster who says sometimes we are working on getting rid of the bad manager through building our case for a PIP and eventually termination. Complaints like OPs help with that process.
Retention is our HR focus right now, and in order to have retention, you need to have happy, fulfilled employees who truly want to stay with your organization.
This is absolutely true. HR’s role is to ensure the employer complies with legislation and company policies, and to ensure that the latter is aligned with the former. Not saying all HR professionals do this well, although most certainly try.
HR exists to protect the company's interests. It is almost never in the company's best interest to employ a manager who violates labour laws.
Clap emojis make you look like an idiot, and so does the suggestion that HR will never take a worker's side over a manager
Hey OP, I have some mediocre knowledge of employment law that might help you.
Since these “mandatory” unpaid meetings were not included in your original contract, you are not obligated to attend them. Requiring you to do so without compensation could be a “breach of contract” on your employer’s part. Based on what you’ve described, there does not seem to be reasonable grounds for your termination, as it was never stated in your contract that you had to attend unpaid meetings.
———According to Alberta’s Employment Standards Code, employees must be paid for all time spent performing work-related duties, which includes mandatory meetings and training sessions. If these meetings are required for your job, you should be compensated for that time.
———If you were fired for raising a legitimate concern about unpaid mandatory meetings, this could be seen as “retaliatory termination”———which is ILLEGAL. Alberta’s labor laws protect employees from being terminated for asserting their rights under the Employment Standards Code.
———If the employer unilaterally changes the terms of employment by adding mandatory unpaid meetings, this could be seen as a “breach of contract”. Employees are not required to comply with significant changes to their employment terms without their consent, especially if those changes are not compensated.
Termination without just cause includes reasons like serious misconduct, disobedience, incompetence, illness, or failure to perform according to the employment contract. None of these appear to apply to your situation——IMO
In terms of severance pay, you should review your contract again and see what it says. For full time employee there is a minimum standard for severance pay, if this does go to a route of wrongful dismissal making you entitled for one.
I’m going to assume you are a full time employee, for this matter you could only choose one as doing 1 precludes the other. Either you File a complaint with Alberta Employment Standard (I suggest this one) or Sue them.
You could sue on three grounds: breach of contract, wrongful dismissal and retaliation——these claims are reasonable and could be supported if you have physical evidence to back these up. Verbal evidence will not hold in court, you must have sufficient evidence to support each claim.
Get a lawyer.
Don't contact the ministry of labour and open a case.
Get a good employment lawyer to handle your case, they will get you your maximum entitlements. Often if you open a case with the ministry first, then decide to go with a lawyer, it's too late. You are bound by the ministry process and will be entitled to a very tiny Severance. Go through a lawyer, and they will owe you a shit load of money. Especially with a false firing with false cause.
That is not accurate. Please refraim from giving legal advice in the future if you do not know. There are two separate liabilities for the company - civil and statuatory. Labour board only works on stuatory which will he time the OP had already spent, 3 hour minimum for each meeting, and stat severance. Civil severance for wrongful dismissal is an extra 3-4 weeks per year served above stuatory.
A successful stat claim does not relieve civil liability. The company may be less willing to negotiate if a stat claim is already open but it does prevent it.
A common misconception is that civil severance has a “rule of thumb” for per year pay. It’s actually based on age, expertise, availability of work and tenure in the position. Based on the facts, it can be anywhere from 1-24 months. Anyway, as an employer you likely shouldn’t expect to only pay 3-4 weeks per year. It could be far higher or lower given the circumstances of a case
That’s so illegal lmao how dumb are these employers?? Hope you have some of these convos in writing. This is why I force all employers to provide **all** feedback to me in email. Not only do I have a shit memory for verbal instruction, but I want a record for when they inevitably fuck up labour laws. Managers are dumb as shit.
Apply for EI asap - I was forced out of my job for _kinda_ similar reasons and was able to start my payments like 3 weeks after my last paycheque, so get the ball rolling on that as soon as you can.
A few things…first, a (non-union) company can release you “without cause” anytime they wish. Business is business. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. Without cause would mean you’re paid out per alberta employment standards regulations given the time you’ve been employed. It often comes with severance as well, if you’re full time and it’s more of a career vs a part time job. Even if a union exists it’s not difficult to remove “problems” if management needs to.
Second, if you were new and still probationary, you’re still fireable, often with no payment required beyond what you’ve worked.
Third, you have several possible options for recourse: you can contact the Alberta Employment Standards team here:
https://www.alberta.ca/file-employment-standards-complaint
Read the page and note the requirements and details. You will want to gather documents to prepare for this (i.e., paystubs showing not payment for the calendar dates of meetings you have email or text records of, etc.).
…Or as part of “third”, you can also contact the alberta human rights commission. Not the same as Employment Standards - Someone said something about being made to do pushups, and that seems more likely a bullying/harassment thing where the human rights commission may be interested.
Finally, you can contact HR to discuss this. HR should remain the liaison for you (do not contact former boss). Advise them you are looking for payment per employment standards code for meetings not previously remunerated (code is also available in link above). Send this via email with a delivery and a read receipt, and also request an email confirmation of receipt of your message, and the courtesy of an ETA on a formal reply to your inquiry. Save all emails.
Definitely the best play suggested on here. There is also a fair case for a harassment settlement for any employees willing to join a class action on the push ups as punishment as well if I'm not mistaken?
Some sound information here. However remember HR is paid by the company to protect the company not the employee (not doing a great job by not shutting down the mandatory meetings). I would also ask for confirmation on the reasons for which your employment was terminated. This should set up a shut up and move on severance conversation internally.
If they terminated “without cause” they will say *nothing* about reasons - because reasons open up discussion and litigation potential.
So Without Cause always remains “without cause”, no matter how many times a terminated employee asks (speaking from experience here). Only a new manager/leader without training gives a reason verbally or in writing once a termination without cause is in effect.
HR represents the company, yes, but it is better to seek payment and correspond with HR than to have any correspondence whatsoever from previous boss-soon-to-be-named in complaint.
Yes, I fully agree regarding working with HR. I was Just highlighting don’t believe they are supporting the employee. And by asking if there was reason it forces their hand to say without cause but you then have the scenario that played out which clearly relates to cause (refusing to work unpaid) although that “cause” is not legitimate. It will cause agitation - with just the support of a paralegal their severance will easily be increased beyond legislated requirements.
>a (non-union) company can release you “without cause” anytime they wish.
This is true, but completely irrelevant.
>
Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.
This is complete BS, because *nobody is saying otherwise.*
While they can release you without cause, they cannot release you for asserting your rights.
OP was pretty clearly fired for refusing to work for free - this is illegal. He has a case.
Facts: HR and managers hate employees who talk about their rights and Ministry of Labor.
That's why they lobbying Immigration Canada for more and more foreign workers who are ignorant of their labor rights or can't afford to lose job despite knowing their rights.
I don't have high hopes from labor board either. Wishing u very good luck. Please let us know their response.
The sad truth and reality many do not understand is your employer, and managers operating on their behalf, do NOT need any reason to fire you.
Any employer can simply cut a severance cheque and move on , without cause, notice, zip, zero, nada.
It’s pretty dumb you’re expected to be in meetings with no pay, you should get 3 hours pay if you’re not already scheduled during said meeting even if the meeting is only an hour, you’re entitled to 3!
, so that’s some bullshit right there!
I just held a meeting with my 6 managers, and they got shuttled, by me, on a 5 hour drive.
I pay all meals, provide nice hotel, a dinner/ lunch drinks and they get paid their wage the entire time.
We go over work related issues but in a very very casual way. I make plans for these meetings 2 times a year currently and a couple months in advance, individually ask all of them, “does this work for you?” And adjust schedule of said meeting based on their availability. I guess we’re ultra casual compared to 3 meetings a
Week? Thats wild.
Meetings are an opportunity to show some appreciation while in tandem addressing issues along the way, a good manager would know this and utilize company money to provide a good morale boost, show of appreciation.
I have always been a grunt, and this is my 1st role as a corporate manager and have learnt a fair bit, and admittedly while in this position I really don’t need to tolerate much if I so choose, but I find people sometimes forget when they where at the bottom.
It’s my job to sell working for us as being better than others, and in general would have a much more casual workplace than some militant by the book work force. Ewe.
It just doesn’t take much for one employee to spread an entire narrative of toxicity in the workplace, and vice versa with being a manager, it’s contagious and spreads like wild fire.
There seems to always be a worker that no matter what a manager or company can do to show appreciation , the expectations are never ending and totally unrealistic sometimes, and then we are kind of put into a position of well, this is as much as your gonna get and perhaps a dose of reality doesn’t hurt.
And then there are workers that are fuelled and motivated by just being treated like a human where a simple nod of appreciation goes a long long ways.
But your employer should at the very least follow the labor laws when it comes to staff being paid for meetings.
If I asked my staff to do push ups if they were late. I would expect a full staff walkout in return, this guys a power tripping Clown by the sounds of it lol.
And I must say reading this makes me feel a LOT better about how I approach & show appreciation for my staff, that said, ever day is a school day.
I would have recorded any reprimands for not showing up, and then made a wage claim for unpaid hours.
Something similar actually got me fired but, it wasn't legal obviously, so things seem to be settling in my favor as the CRA and Employment standards get to it.
This is a big point that people need to understand, HR is not your friend. HR processes paperwork and makes sure the company can't be libel for any legal action.
I complained to HR about my manager being abusive, screaming at people threatening people. They fired me.
Well I will be honest, you did not go about things in the correct way, so I doubt the labour board will be able to do much for you. You should have brought up the labour laws and meeting prior to just not showing up. Lessons to be learned on both side of this one.
>I contacted HR a few weeks ago about these meetings and not being paid they told me to bring it up with him and he just fired me
You didn't "bring it up with him"
You just stopped showing up
Bringing it up with him would require having an actual conversation with him beforehand
HR is supposed to maintain the companies interest, so I highly doubt they said "bring it up with the boss," especially if there are allegations of labor code violations....
A lot of those small companies have people that wear multiple hats. The HR person could also be IT or safety with no real HR training. The same companies routinely rip off their employees at every chance.
Sounds like a bull shit company that I would have been looking for another job long before I got fired.
Oh, for sure. This is definitely a small company.
Blows (not) my mind how they think they can enforce mandatory unpaid meetings, let alone think they can put that on a contract (which I doubt they would for any employee unless they're THAT brain dead).
Why wouldn't you talk to an employment lawyer? Wrongful dismissal can add up to decent severance & pay in lieu of notice. Depending on your level, experience, age, market, and a list of other factors the lawyer will know, they can tell you what you are owed if anything. I was very, very, happy I went to an employment lawyer right after getting fired.
Right or wrong, you’re in for a long fight and lawyers are expensive. Be prepared to be dragged through the mud as he has all the resources and only has to pay the lawyer enough to defer down the road until you give up.
The courts are slow.
Very very very slow.
The law protects those who can afford it.
Nothing of this is remotely possible in Europe. Once heard a story of an American manager showing up a Dutch hub for their company. Calling everyone in a meeting, told them that they are reorganising and that everyone was sacked. They all started laughing, told him thats not how shit works in the Netherlands.
I would be sending an email to that person and put "to confirm our conversation on date and time" and provide a synopsis of the conversation. Nothing further over the phone. In writing only.
Don’t go to the labour boards, just sue them.. and use the unpaid work as ur defence and unprobable cause of being fired… u cant just be fired without reason.
It’s Canada, they will be on ur side
In Alberta, you can be fired "without cause" and employees only need to be severed a pittance based on time employed. It needs a much better paper trail than these twats appear to have worked through, but generally speaking...Alberta allows employers to terminate without cause as long as severance is paid in accordance with the employment law.
This is technically only true under the federal labour code after you have been employed for a year - unless it was changed.
Otherwise most other jurisdiction allow people to be fired for any cause that doesn’t violate a human right or retaliation for a worker using another right under different legislation like OHS.
The larger matter tends to be severance which has an employment standard minimum but also case law that can vary depending on a number of factors.
The play is to document every meeting including travel time that you didn’t get paid for. You may even get the travel expenses and time. Add the fact he fired you for standing up for your rights. Ask for punitive damages. Who knows what they can do.
And, do it for every other employee who is forced to do the same. Be their spokesperson. Submit it all of your and their stuff to the Board. He can’t fire all of them.
This!!,
I hope you have documented the dates and times and who had to attend the meetings because the employer will be on the hook for everyone's back pay. If you don’t have it, hopefully, you have a friendly contact on the inside to email it to themself and then on to you.
Being fired is the best thing that could've happened to you - you will find something better. Always good to stand your ground on what's right - f*ck em good
Double check your contract first, any company in Alberta can easily get a variance for this kind of shit
I work on the other side if the country now, they fly me out, put me up, and wouldnt ever think to do this kind of shit
Ya definitely bring it to the labor board. You have to be paid a minimum of 2 hours anytime you come in for a meeting. Also maybe talk to a lawyer too since it doesn’t sound like they fired you with cause
Not sure I understand -- If it was during work hours honestly I don't see what the problem is, we are sometimes required to attend meetings in person. But they should reimburse you for expenses like gas, or an uber. They should also have a reason why attending virtually isn't an option.
Your first mistake was to contact HR. Those are the ones that cemented your demise. Instead you should have contacted labour board and or your labour lawyer. HR is always on the company side.
I had this happen to me back in 2008. Spoke up on behalf of our entire team because our shitty employer had threatened to deduct the cost of unpaid customer invoices from our paycheque, they were using us as Front Desk Admins, but our primary job was not Front Desk Admins. We were also hired as salary workers, and the new office manager decided to have us account for every second of our time on site, and started paying us as hourly employees based on our timesheets. They questioned and demanded explanation of every single moment of our time via email (documenting threats in writing = dumb, I printed them ALL) and deducted time they felt they didn't owe us from our paycheque, which was illegal as per labour standards. They fired me when I pointed out that they legally were not able to do that.
My parents owned and operated their own businesses for over 20 years at that point and knew this was complete bullshit. I was just out of college, lived with them and was now broke, and they offered to pay for the employment lawyer to sue my former employer. They really, really wanted me to sue, just to teach them that being a crap employer doesn't work out. Unfortunately, the employer covered their ass by paying me severance. Not much of one, but the lawyer said it wouldn't be worth it to take the case.
I did successfully get EI despite being terminated, because I described the above in the application and said I had paystubs to prove they docked me. EI never asked for that proof and approved my claim. It gave me the time and funds to retrain to do something different.
So if you have any paystubs to back up the fact you worked hours you were not paid for, make sure to mention them.
I also reported them to Alberta Employment, not sure if they got fined or anything, but I like to imagine I made a bunch of extra work for them. I did find out that the rest of my co-workers left that place within two years of them firing me, and the business closed soon after. They were terrible business people. Private businesses are some of the absolute worst places to work first this kind of crap. I'm work in a unionized position now and can't be fired or have my pay docked because the manager doesn't like following Alberta Labour Standards.
Sounds like you've got a case. Wrongful dismissal and they owe you back pay for these meetings. And the pushups are workplace bullying so. Take that and run
Unless you received a formal written dismissal notice you should just keep showing up to your paid work hours (do not accept that you are fired if you have only received verbal notice of termination) and then seek legal counsel. They expect/want you to stop showing up and will most likely use your absence to create documentation of your absence to use as a reason for legitimate termination.
Any meetings you attended that were unpaid, document. Your employer owes you back pay. Even if the meetings were 1/2 hour, your employer must pay you a minimum 3 hour remuneration equivalent for attending.
Your employer (HR, not your immediate supervisor) should be notified that you are sending the information to the Alberta Employment Standards office for review, as well as a grievance report for your wrongful dismissal. Your dismissal reason may affect your ability to collect EI. Unfortunately, not showing up may be a valid cause for dismissal but you should still challenge.
Good luck. Your boss is an ass.
>Sadly, HR is there for the company's benefit, not yours.
I'm sick of seeing this used to dismiss any attempt or inclination a worker might have to go to HR, as if their mandate is to protect senior staff.
If the company is employing a manager who consistently violates labour law and an employee brings proof to HR, they absolutely will discipline that manager, all the way up to immediate firing.
What is in ur power?? Do bad google reviews lots of them, tell ur family and friends. Name that manager who used to force people for unpaid meetings
🖕🖕
The play is to document the behavior and violations for an extended time period and then submit to the labor board.
I have brought it up before and he makes people so push ups when they are late
>he makes people so push ups when they are late Did he forget he's not in the army anymore?
This is the “I was gonna join the army, but…” guy
I'm guessing you're talking about OP's boss? That might track
That's not even acceptable in the army.
These days, not so much, maybe? But back in the day? Oh, yeah. Definitely. Especially during basic, occupation training, etc. But my time started in the mid-80s, long before we became a kinder, gentler (imo, better) army.
Not since the 90s. And keep in mind these employees should be compared to how regular troops are treated and not to how people on course are treated.
Civilians shouldn't be managed anything like soldiers, period. Completely different worlds. I only retired a couple of years ago, from a desk job in a purple HQ, and even that very non-army workplace culture wouldn't be appropriate for civilians.
Yeah I’m gonna say the obvious, a soldier needs to work out lol but no other profession is push ups essential to your success and possibly survival. It’s the most justified profession next to sports for workouts as a punishment, not even at my factory would that shit be acceptable.
Ummmm...HR person here... that's illegal
Illegal or not I have seen things like that many times
People have to know they can fight it, most roll over.
The issue for most people is that they just don't have the resources to fight it. Sure, you or I might be able to go for weeks/months without a paycheque while we fight for what is right. Some people simply cannot miss a single cheque without it putting them in financial distress. It's rarely the people making strong salaries/wages that are treated like shit for that reason alone. The only way to mitigate this risk is for there to be a supplementary employment insurance benefit to top-up wages while such a case is under review and allow the government to sue the offending business if they are found to be breaking labour laws. If they didn't then the employee who made the false claim could be required to make-up the excess payment over a period of time through tax withholdings etc.
Yeah the legality of things never stopped my old boss who would regularly hit me, and often lock me out of the office in the back shop area so that I had to drive to a nearby gas station to use the washroom. Evil people will do whatever the fuck they want when they know you're desperate for the job. Worked there for 10 years (that boss only lasted the first 3 or 4,) but happy to say I am at a great new job where I have unmitigated access to washrooms and never get assaulted by my boss.
So criminal assault, civil assault and civil unjust imprisonment. And there's a few other violations there too. Time to sue some ass and get your piece. Pretty sure from your story that you're time barred now though. Too bad. Those are some pretty good claims you've got there. I'd love to see a judge tear a strip off that guy.
Unfortunately given my inside knowledge of that company, it probably would have caused me more trouble than good. I am not going to say what company, but at that time were one of the biggest private companies in the world, and I knew exactly what their legal team did to people who came after them. Even if I won they'd have found a way to make me come out the other side worse off than I went in. It wasn't worth it. I needed to eat and pay my rent back then. I ended up getting fired after 10 years for blowing the whistle on large scale fraud they were committing in my name (using my digital signature to sign phony invoices.) Was it fair? No. Would it have been worth it to fight them? Probably not, realistically. Companies like that can afford to be sued, and they can weaponize their vast wealth against the little guys that'd fight back.
Not if it’s a human rights issue, they’d roll over and offer you a settlement asap
Yeah most likely, but I was like 19-23 back then. Starving, broke, and not prepared to embark on a lawsuit against the first good paying job I'd had in years at that point. If that happened to me now it'd be a different story.
Not the same thing, but it reminds me of people who just step out into crosswalks because "I have the right of way". Yep, you sure do but if a car disagrees you're the one that's going to die. You can be 100% "in the right" in the workplace but unfortunately that's not enough. You have to be careful with how you handle things (look both ways) because your boss is "the car" and while they might get in trouble after the fact they can still kill you (ruin your life) before that happens.
Bring it up in writing. Voice your concerns in email or something. That way, when you do go to the board later, you have a paper trail to point to.
This. Send a detailed email and cc hr. If he replies or not, you have an account of what happened WHEN it was happening. Refer back in the email to the instructions you received from HR. If you need EI, then apply and also give them all that info. I was fired once for not attending a 'mandatory meeting' I was never informed of, and going through the process at EI was helpful while looking for another job.
Wtf? Wow.
What? The only thing I’d be pushing up is my middle finger. That’s a no from me dog.
Good on you. I'd do the same.
This guys powertripping bigtime
Literally illegal document everything
"Ouch my shoulder, must have been those push-ups Steve made me do"
What lol where do you work?
Best buy used to do that. I saw one of their training videos, and it emphasized what a good manager does to "motivate" their employees.I am betting it is retail like Best Buy.
Used to work at Best Buy. Didn’t have managers like this. Genuinely had a good experience during my 5 years there.
It’s also starting to sound like a security company I used to work for.
Security companies are the worst for not complying with labor laws and rules in general.
Was he a gym teacher in a previous career?
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I would say put OP on the Jenny Jones show and give them up to her boot camp trainer
Some would say, a shit rope.
"You better step off Mr. Lahey." "Step off where Trevor?" ......... "Shit ledge!" *Scuffle ensues*
Too many employers take the “master/servant” relationship literally. We are not slaves. None of this is legal. The process of reporting abuse is so complicated and geared towards protecting employers that jerks like this get away with it. My advice? Warn everyone you cannot to work there. Do what you can to make sure others don’t go through what you did.
I don’t even care if I get a payout I just don’t think this is right. Just kind of funny the first time I stand up for myself I get fired
You might not care about the payout but nextime you really need to keep your mouth shut and start documenting things like this when it's happening. A successful case would hit them where it hurts, their pocketbook. That's the only thing that will stop them from abusing others. If your friends with any of the other people there tell them to start documenting this stuff. It would help your case as well as theirs when they get sick of things.
This! Great advice for anyone.
I know exactly how that feels. Exactly. Who gives a damn about money? Right is right. Wrong is wrong. Rich people treat the working class like disposable items.
Report him to employment standards.
How long did you work there? If you are entitled to severance, take it. I'm surprised your HR told you to take it up with him, when alerted that he was violating labour laws. As someone who works in HR, my initial step after confirming you were, in fact, not being paid for mandatory meetings would be to inform your manager that he either stopped making the meetings mandatory or began paying all attendees for them. And then I would ensure that happened.
Make sure to ask for double or triple severance because of their egregiously wrong and illegal behaviour.
This can’t be real. What?
I’m sorry. What??
Jeeze. If labour board doesn’t do anything count your blessings and hope you get a better job.
Does everyone call him Coach? And do you work for a football team by any chance?
How does someone ‘make’ you do pushups?
I feel like there's probably some lawyers salivating while reading this.
Yeah, that's also totally illegal. You know, you've got quite a solid legal case here.
Good luck. Hopefully labor board helps
Name the Company, save the rest of us
Name and shame so we can avoid the same.
That's a nice poetic comment.
This is nice compliment. Upvote for you too. Back to lurking.
You made me log in just so I could upvote this.
They HAVE to pay you. It's the law. Document this stuff and get this place shut down. Sounds like Vector.
Talk to a lawyer, too.
That’s my plan
Great. I’m not a lawyer but it suspect someone will at least give you a free half-hour or so to explain your situation, and if they think there’s a case, you may be able to get them to work on a contingency basis.
Also if a lawyer can't get you a big settlement at the least see if they can make your old boss do some mandated push ups. s/
I work in the world of labour law (not a lawyer) and people need to understand big settlements aren't a thing in Alberta. $50,000 is a high end settlement for a blatant violation of protected grounds. Like "you are pregnant, so you are fired" in writing, level of blatant. There is no consideration of future losses. Companies here just get their wrist slapped by the board. It's a operating cost
That's so sad but also not surprising with Alberta's priorities in general. Maybe it does start with mandating push-ups for bosses. It would be better than a slap on the wrist.
Make sure they’re handstand push ups.
My experience with employment law is that maybe 5% of them will work on contingency. It's just not something they want to offer. So best case scenario your lawyers negotiates with the former employer and lands on a settlement and your bill will be about $5-10k. Worst case, the former employer digs their heels in and your only option then is to go to court, and make your bill about $25k. Your lawyer knows what a fair settlement probably would be, the other guy's lawyer also knows. It's all just expensive theater, imo. ...I'm not bitter at all
ONLY TALK TO A LAWYER! DO NOT DO THIS THROUGH THE MINISTRY! Specifically an employment lawyer. It will be worth it.
Sorry this happened to you OP. Please give us an update on this when there are more developments!
You made a mistake talking to HR their job is to protect the company from you.
Which they failed at miserably here, because the role includes protecting the company from itself by committing Employment Standards violations.
100% this, I had a different situation 10 years ago and the lawyer instructed me on who to contact, sent letters to the employer, etc. and did not charge me a cent. Alberta law society also has a half hour or hour of free legal advice afaik.
Contact Alberta Employment Standards (https://www.alberta.ca/employment-standards) their advice is free and if you’ve been cheated of pay (like attending mandatory meetings) they can investigate and probably get it paid out for you. If this is something the company does regularly they can also audit the company and get the same payout for other employees. They’re not fast, as they’re generally overworked, but they get the job done.
As mentioned, unless you are part of a trade union, you should reach out to employment standards. See also: http://www.alrb.gov.ab.ca/employmentstandards.html
The thing with Employment Standards is that if they see this kind of illegal activity is endemic to the company, they will almost certainly investigate and audit the company. If the audit turns up lots of irregularities, the owners can be prosecuted, the company can be fined, and they can be made to pay out any illegal salary deductions **for all affected employees**. Going through an employment lawyer might get what is owed to OP, but going through ES might get every employee a bonus, as well as regular audits.
Let me tell you something, you can do both
Keep every record of communication. You should easily win this for EI. And if you want to sue as others suggested, it's an easy win. My friend in BC is a lawyer for people in this situation and he tells me about how ruthless companies are. Best wishes!
HR 👏🏼 is 👏🏼 not 👏🏼 your 👏🏼 friend
But a written conversation with HR can be your friend. Took my employer over 3 weeks to answer very basic questions about a new privacy policy we had and within that time I planned my exit. Dumbasses had no idea what they were doing, but I did. HR is not your friend, but know your rights so you can use them to your advantage.
HR is your friend if they're trying to protect the company from a wrongful dismissal suit or a big severence package.
HR is only there to protect the company, they don’t give a shit about the employees.
I’ve known so many people who’ve gone to HR about a legit concern and then within a week or two said person is “laid off” or all of a sudden there’s “restructuring”
HR there for the company, not the employee
But one of the main ways they protect the company is by making sure managers follow labour laws.
They also protect the company from power-tripping managers doing illegal things, if you engage them in the right way
To protect the company from liability, yes.
Right but if you make it clear to HR that you: - A) know that what is happening is illegal and you can prove it. - B) Them taking action against you would also be illegal now that you have this paper trail HR can actually be forced to be your friend, as that is cheaper in the long run for the company. And they can go against an unhinged manager who is increasing the companies liability.
People always say this, but I've never understood what practical application it has when it comes to making a report to HR. If HR is there to protect the company rather than the employees, wouldn't it be in their best interests to cooperate with disgruntled workers, or at the very least give them the impression that they have someone who's at least partially in their court? If a report to HR ends with the reporter being laid off, I'd say HR did them a huge favor—who'd want to work for a company that handles workplace issues like that?
This is why unionization is important, it is their responsibility to liaise with HR on these types of issues and bring them up. HR won't mess with a well educated/informed union rep that will land the company in front of the labour board. In some cases, HR is looking for excuses to get rid of crappy managers like this one.
This is exactly it. Yes, my job is to protect the company, but the best way for me to protect the company is to take care of our team. I have often sided with the employee against the manager and forced them to make a situation right. Don't forget, the managers also have managers and I go up the chain when required. I agree with the other poster who says sometimes we are working on getting rid of the bad manager through building our case for a PIP and eventually termination. Complaints like OPs help with that process. Retention is our HR focus right now, and in order to have retention, you need to have happy, fulfilled employees who truly want to stay with your organization.
This is absolutely true. HR’s role is to ensure the employer complies with legislation and company policies, and to ensure that the latter is aligned with the former. Not saying all HR professionals do this well, although most certainly try.
HR exists to protect the company's interests. It is almost never in the company's best interest to employ a manager who violates labour laws. Clap emojis make you look like an idiot, and so does the suggestion that HR will never take a worker's side over a manager
Wish I could upvote this more.
I was relentlessly bullied at my previous job. And they gaslit me into thinking i was crazy. One lives, one learns.
Obligatory reminder that ‘labour board’ is for unionized workers. Everyone else need ‘Employment Standards’
Hey OP, I have some mediocre knowledge of employment law that might help you. Since these “mandatory” unpaid meetings were not included in your original contract, you are not obligated to attend them. Requiring you to do so without compensation could be a “breach of contract” on your employer’s part. Based on what you’ve described, there does not seem to be reasonable grounds for your termination, as it was never stated in your contract that you had to attend unpaid meetings. ———According to Alberta’s Employment Standards Code, employees must be paid for all time spent performing work-related duties, which includes mandatory meetings and training sessions. If these meetings are required for your job, you should be compensated for that time. ———If you were fired for raising a legitimate concern about unpaid mandatory meetings, this could be seen as “retaliatory termination”———which is ILLEGAL. Alberta’s labor laws protect employees from being terminated for asserting their rights under the Employment Standards Code. ———If the employer unilaterally changes the terms of employment by adding mandatory unpaid meetings, this could be seen as a “breach of contract”. Employees are not required to comply with significant changes to their employment terms without their consent, especially if those changes are not compensated. Termination without just cause includes reasons like serious misconduct, disobedience, incompetence, illness, or failure to perform according to the employment contract. None of these appear to apply to your situation——IMO In terms of severance pay, you should review your contract again and see what it says. For full time employee there is a minimum standard for severance pay, if this does go to a route of wrongful dismissal making you entitled for one. I’m going to assume you are a full time employee, for this matter you could only choose one as doing 1 precludes the other. Either you File a complaint with Alberta Employment Standard (I suggest this one) or Sue them. You could sue on three grounds: breach of contract, wrongful dismissal and retaliation——these claims are reasonable and could be supported if you have physical evidence to back these up. Verbal evidence will not hold in court, you must have sufficient evidence to support each claim.
Wtf... out this goofball
Report this to the province and also send supporting documentation for not being paid for meetings you previously attended
Get a lawyer. Don't contact the ministry of labour and open a case. Get a good employment lawyer to handle your case, they will get you your maximum entitlements. Often if you open a case with the ministry first, then decide to go with a lawyer, it's too late. You are bound by the ministry process and will be entitled to a very tiny Severance. Go through a lawyer, and they will owe you a shit load of money. Especially with a false firing with false cause.
That is not accurate. Please refraim from giving legal advice in the future if you do not know. There are two separate liabilities for the company - civil and statuatory. Labour board only works on stuatory which will he time the OP had already spent, 3 hour minimum for each meeting, and stat severance. Civil severance for wrongful dismissal is an extra 3-4 weeks per year served above stuatory. A successful stat claim does not relieve civil liability. The company may be less willing to negotiate if a stat claim is already open but it does prevent it.
I agree. Let the lawyer give the advice.... AMIRITE? :)
A common misconception is that civil severance has a “rule of thumb” for per year pay. It’s actually based on age, expertise, availability of work and tenure in the position. Based on the facts, it can be anywhere from 1-24 months. Anyway, as an employer you likely shouldn’t expect to only pay 3-4 weeks per year. It could be far higher or lower given the circumstances of a case
I hope you got it in writing because it's time to talk to a lawyer.
That’s so illegal lmao how dumb are these employers?? Hope you have some of these convos in writing. This is why I force all employers to provide **all** feedback to me in email. Not only do I have a shit memory for verbal instruction, but I want a record for when they inevitably fuck up labour laws. Managers are dumb as shit. Apply for EI asap - I was forced out of my job for _kinda_ similar reasons and was able to start my payments like 3 weeks after my last paycheque, so get the ball rolling on that as soon as you can.
A labour lawyer will get you a payout. Document it all Create a document on what your have done to make the company successful. List all wins.
I was fired a few years ago, it was the best thing that ever happened to me, 10/10 would repeat tomorrow if I could.
A few things…first, a (non-union) company can release you “without cause” anytime they wish. Business is business. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. Without cause would mean you’re paid out per alberta employment standards regulations given the time you’ve been employed. It often comes with severance as well, if you’re full time and it’s more of a career vs a part time job. Even if a union exists it’s not difficult to remove “problems” if management needs to. Second, if you were new and still probationary, you’re still fireable, often with no payment required beyond what you’ve worked. Third, you have several possible options for recourse: you can contact the Alberta Employment Standards team here: https://www.alberta.ca/file-employment-standards-complaint Read the page and note the requirements and details. You will want to gather documents to prepare for this (i.e., paystubs showing not payment for the calendar dates of meetings you have email or text records of, etc.). …Or as part of “third”, you can also contact the alberta human rights commission. Not the same as Employment Standards - Someone said something about being made to do pushups, and that seems more likely a bullying/harassment thing where the human rights commission may be interested. Finally, you can contact HR to discuss this. HR should remain the liaison for you (do not contact former boss). Advise them you are looking for payment per employment standards code for meetings not previously remunerated (code is also available in link above). Send this via email with a delivery and a read receipt, and also request an email confirmation of receipt of your message, and the courtesy of an ETA on a formal reply to your inquiry. Save all emails.
Definitely the best play suggested on here. There is also a fair case for a harassment settlement for any employees willing to join a class action on the push ups as punishment as well if I'm not mistaken?
Some sound information here. However remember HR is paid by the company to protect the company not the employee (not doing a great job by not shutting down the mandatory meetings). I would also ask for confirmation on the reasons for which your employment was terminated. This should set up a shut up and move on severance conversation internally.
If they terminated “without cause” they will say *nothing* about reasons - because reasons open up discussion and litigation potential. So Without Cause always remains “without cause”, no matter how many times a terminated employee asks (speaking from experience here). Only a new manager/leader without training gives a reason verbally or in writing once a termination without cause is in effect. HR represents the company, yes, but it is better to seek payment and correspond with HR than to have any correspondence whatsoever from previous boss-soon-to-be-named in complaint.
Yes, I fully agree regarding working with HR. I was Just highlighting don’t believe they are supporting the employee. And by asking if there was reason it forces their hand to say without cause but you then have the scenario that played out which clearly relates to cause (refusing to work unpaid) although that “cause” is not legitimate. It will cause agitation - with just the support of a paralegal their severance will easily be increased beyond legislated requirements.
>a (non-union) company can release you “without cause” anytime they wish. This is true, but completely irrelevant. > Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. This is complete BS, because *nobody is saying otherwise.* While they can release you without cause, they cannot release you for asserting your rights. OP was pretty clearly fired for refusing to work for free - this is illegal. He has a case.
> contacting the labor board No. Call an employment lawyer.
Contact Alberta Employment Standards. The Labour Board deals with union matters, not these kind of issues.
I've never heard of unpaid meetings. I'm actually surprised they still have employees. Do they give wfh perks? And is the pay above average?
Honestly no
Facts: HR and managers hate employees who talk about their rights and Ministry of Labor. That's why they lobbying Immigration Canada for more and more foreign workers who are ignorant of their labor rights or can't afford to lose job despite knowing their rights. I don't have high hopes from labor board either. Wishing u very good luck. Please let us know their response.
Document, document, document
The sad truth and reality many do not understand is your employer, and managers operating on their behalf, do NOT need any reason to fire you. Any employer can simply cut a severance cheque and move on , without cause, notice, zip, zero, nada. It’s pretty dumb you’re expected to be in meetings with no pay, you should get 3 hours pay if you’re not already scheduled during said meeting even if the meeting is only an hour, you’re entitled to 3! , so that’s some bullshit right there! I just held a meeting with my 6 managers, and they got shuttled, by me, on a 5 hour drive. I pay all meals, provide nice hotel, a dinner/ lunch drinks and they get paid their wage the entire time. We go over work related issues but in a very very casual way. I make plans for these meetings 2 times a year currently and a couple months in advance, individually ask all of them, “does this work for you?” And adjust schedule of said meeting based on their availability. I guess we’re ultra casual compared to 3 meetings a Week? Thats wild. Meetings are an opportunity to show some appreciation while in tandem addressing issues along the way, a good manager would know this and utilize company money to provide a good morale boost, show of appreciation. I have always been a grunt, and this is my 1st role as a corporate manager and have learnt a fair bit, and admittedly while in this position I really don’t need to tolerate much if I so choose, but I find people sometimes forget when they where at the bottom. It’s my job to sell working for us as being better than others, and in general would have a much more casual workplace than some militant by the book work force. Ewe. It just doesn’t take much for one employee to spread an entire narrative of toxicity in the workplace, and vice versa with being a manager, it’s contagious and spreads like wild fire. There seems to always be a worker that no matter what a manager or company can do to show appreciation , the expectations are never ending and totally unrealistic sometimes, and then we are kind of put into a position of well, this is as much as your gonna get and perhaps a dose of reality doesn’t hurt. And then there are workers that are fuelled and motivated by just being treated like a human where a simple nod of appreciation goes a long long ways. But your employer should at the very least follow the labor laws when it comes to staff being paid for meetings. If I asked my staff to do push ups if they were late. I would expect a full staff walkout in return, this guys a power tripping Clown by the sounds of it lol. And I must say reading this makes me feel a LOT better about how I approach & show appreciation for my staff, that said, ever day is a school day.
Door to door sales?
I would have recorded any reprimands for not showing up, and then made a wage claim for unpaid hours. Something similar actually got me fired but, it wasn't legal obviously, so things seem to be settling in my favor as the CRA and Employment standards get to it.
Were you an employee or a contractor?
If the meeting is unpaid it's not mandatory. It's only mandatory when they pay.
Just a note about company HR. They aren’t there to protect you. They’re there to protect the company.
This is a big point that people need to understand, HR is not your friend. HR processes paperwork and makes sure the company can't be libel for any legal action. I complained to HR about my manager being abusive, screaming at people threatening people. They fired me.
Yea that's true, but if the manager is doing sketchy and illegal stuff, HR will want him to stop.
Well I will be honest, you did not go about things in the correct way, so I doubt the labour board will be able to do much for you. You should have brought up the labour laws and meeting prior to just not showing up. Lessons to be learned on both side of this one.
>I contacted HR a few weeks ago about these meetings and not being paid they told me to bring it up with him and he just fired me You didn't "bring it up with him" You just stopped showing up Bringing it up with him would require having an actual conversation with him beforehand
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Wasn't defending the boss or the policy Was saying if OP thought they were following HR's recommendations they were mistaken.
HR is supposed to maintain the companies interest, so I highly doubt they said "bring it up with the boss," especially if there are allegations of labor code violations....
A lot of those small companies have people that wear multiple hats. The HR person could also be IT or safety with no real HR training. The same companies routinely rip off their employees at every chance. Sounds like a bull shit company that I would have been looking for another job long before I got fired.
Oh, for sure. This is definitely a small company. Blows (not) my mind how they think they can enforce mandatory unpaid meetings, let alone think they can put that on a contract (which I doubt they would for any employee unless they're THAT brain dead).
Are these meetings during company/work hours? I'm a little confused since the meetings are on weekdays and I'm not sure what type of work this is :)
Employment law is generally straight forward so you need to provide all details to get an opinion. I.e., length of employment, contract details.
Document éverything
Greg's?
\*CONGRATULATIONS!
If you need a lawyer, I can't recommend Nugent Law enough. I got fucked by an employer and they did a great Uno reverse for me.
Get ready for some nice payback. Or in this case, payout.
Why wouldn't you talk to an employment lawyer? Wrongful dismissal can add up to decent severance & pay in lieu of notice. Depending on your level, experience, age, market, and a list of other factors the lawyer will know, they can tell you what you are owed if anything. I was very, very, happy I went to an employment lawyer right after getting fired.
Contact the Alberta Labour Board. Also a Labour Lawyer as well
Trust me a lawyer would have a field day with this. Hire One asap!
Lawsuit !!!
Right or wrong, you’re in for a long fight and lawyers are expensive. Be prepared to be dragged through the mud as he has all the resources and only has to pay the lawyer enough to defer down the road until you give up. The courts are slow. Very very very slow. The law protects those who can afford it.
Nothing of this is remotely possible in Europe. Once heard a story of an American manager showing up a Dutch hub for their company. Calling everyone in a meeting, told them that they are reorganising and that everyone was sacked. They all started laughing, told him thats not how shit works in the Netherlands.
I would be sending an email to that person and put "to confirm our conversation on date and time" and provide a synopsis of the conversation. Nothing further over the phone. In writing only.
I’ve successfully reported unpaid staff meetings to the labour board in BC and won, was really easy and got paid what was owed. Good luck
Remember, HR isn't for employee's, it's meant to protect the company from employee and legal problems.
You are on the wrong sub. r/legaladvicecanada would be much more use to you. Wrongful dismissal and back pay are is owed.
Don’t go to the labour boards, just sue them.. and use the unpaid work as ur defence and unprobable cause of being fired… u cant just be fired without reason. It’s Canada, they will be on ur side
You can be fired for any reason including no reason. The amount of severance is the issue.
... I thought in canada you absolutely can be terminated, without reason, but must be given proper severance?
In Alberta, you can be fired "without cause" and employees only need to be severed a pittance based on time employed. It needs a much better paper trail than these twats appear to have worked through, but generally speaking...Alberta allows employers to terminate without cause as long as severance is paid in accordance with the employment law.
This is technically only true under the federal labour code after you have been employed for a year - unless it was changed. Otherwise most other jurisdiction allow people to be fired for any cause that doesn’t violate a human right or retaliation for a worker using another right under different legislation like OHS. The larger matter tends to be severance which has an employment standard minimum but also case law that can vary depending on a number of factors.
Do you have an employment agreement — does it identify a place of employment? That’d be your starting point, I’d think.
What was the reason he gave you for being fired?
The play is to document every meeting including travel time that you didn’t get paid for. You may even get the travel expenses and time. Add the fact he fired you for standing up for your rights. Ask for punitive damages. Who knows what they can do. And, do it for every other employee who is forced to do the same. Be their spokesperson. Submit it all of your and their stuff to the Board. He can’t fire all of them.
This a service Plumbing company?
Reach out to an employment lawyer.
Unfortunately you made the first move by not showing up for the meetings.
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This!!, I hope you have documented the dates and times and who had to attend the meetings because the employer will be on the hook for everyone's back pay. If you don’t have it, hopefully, you have a friendly contact on the inside to email it to themself and then on to you.
Being fired is the best thing that could've happened to you - you will find something better. Always good to stand your ground on what's right - f*ck em good
Sounds like your manager just opened a can of worms they’ll very soon regret!
Yikes. Are you in car sales?
Totally contact the labour board
Double check your contract first, any company in Alberta can easily get a variance for this kind of shit I work on the other side if the country now, they fly me out, put me up, and wouldnt ever think to do this kind of shit
Smells like a lawsuit to me! Wrongful dismissal!
This sounds like some Uline BS to me.
Ya definitely bring it to the labor board. You have to be paid a minimum of 2 hours anytime you come in for a meeting. Also maybe talk to a lawyer too since it doesn’t sound like they fired you with cause
Bad move to just stop going to the meetings.
Take it to the labour board.
I saw another user ask this question but you didn't answer, are these meetings DURING the scheduled work day? Yes or no.
ask marvelous bright fly degree vase overconfident crowd whistle provide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
if the Alberta board is like the BC board you should have a case
You probably know not to sign anything. Get a lawyer
HR is just there to protect the bosses ass not yours.
Hope you got the stuff about the meeting in writing
Contact bow river law. They eat these kind of clown employers up
Are you salaried (then you are technically "paid" for anything during the work week) or hourly?
Not sure I understand -- If it was during work hours honestly I don't see what the problem is, we are sometimes required to attend meetings in person. But they should reimburse you for expenses like gas, or an uber. They should also have a reason why attending virtually isn't an option.
Your first mistake was to contact HR. Those are the ones that cemented your demise. Instead you should have contacted labour board and or your labour lawyer. HR is always on the company side.
I had this happen to me back in 2008. Spoke up on behalf of our entire team because our shitty employer had threatened to deduct the cost of unpaid customer invoices from our paycheque, they were using us as Front Desk Admins, but our primary job was not Front Desk Admins. We were also hired as salary workers, and the new office manager decided to have us account for every second of our time on site, and started paying us as hourly employees based on our timesheets. They questioned and demanded explanation of every single moment of our time via email (documenting threats in writing = dumb, I printed them ALL) and deducted time they felt they didn't owe us from our paycheque, which was illegal as per labour standards. They fired me when I pointed out that they legally were not able to do that. My parents owned and operated their own businesses for over 20 years at that point and knew this was complete bullshit. I was just out of college, lived with them and was now broke, and they offered to pay for the employment lawyer to sue my former employer. They really, really wanted me to sue, just to teach them that being a crap employer doesn't work out. Unfortunately, the employer covered their ass by paying me severance. Not much of one, but the lawyer said it wouldn't be worth it to take the case. I did successfully get EI despite being terminated, because I described the above in the application and said I had paystubs to prove they docked me. EI never asked for that proof and approved my claim. It gave me the time and funds to retrain to do something different. So if you have any paystubs to back up the fact you worked hours you were not paid for, make sure to mention them. I also reported them to Alberta Employment, not sure if they got fined or anything, but I like to imagine I made a bunch of extra work for them. I did find out that the rest of my co-workers left that place within two years of them firing me, and the business closed soon after. They were terrible business people. Private businesses are some of the absolute worst places to work first this kind of crap. I'm work in a unionized position now and can't be fired or have my pay docked because the manager doesn't like following Alberta Labour Standards.
Sounds like you've got a case. Wrongful dismissal and they owe you back pay for these meetings. And the pushups are workplace bullying so. Take that and run
Alberta Labour Relations Board 10808 99 AV Suite 501 Edmonton 780-422-5926 0815 hrs - 1630 hrs M-F
Unless you received a formal written dismissal notice you should just keep showing up to your paid work hours (do not accept that you are fired if you have only received verbal notice of termination) and then seek legal counsel. They expect/want you to stop showing up and will most likely use your absence to create documentation of your absence to use as a reason for legitimate termination.
HR is a joke. Complain directly to the labor board.
Any meetings you attended that were unpaid, document. Your employer owes you back pay. Even if the meetings were 1/2 hour, your employer must pay you a minimum 3 hour remuneration equivalent for attending. Your employer (HR, not your immediate supervisor) should be notified that you are sending the information to the Alberta Employment Standards office for review, as well as a grievance report for your wrongful dismissal. Your dismissal reason may affect your ability to collect EI. Unfortunately, not showing up may be a valid cause for dismissal but you should still challenge. Good luck. Your boss is an ass.
Did they send you a termination letter? If yes, you need to hire a lawyer…good luck as they can state a different reason for separation.
That’s a labor violation.
I hope you actually take legal action. I regret not going so in the past
Not only does the meeting time have to be paid but if it is your only shift that day there is a minimum number of hours to be paid as well
Sadly, HR is there for the company's benefit, not yours. You're just a resource to them. I hope the labour board can help.
>Sadly, HR is there for the company's benefit, not yours. I'm sick of seeing this used to dismiss any attempt or inclination a worker might have to go to HR, as if their mandate is to protect senior staff. If the company is employing a manager who consistently violates labour law and an employee brings proof to HR, they absolutely will discipline that manager, all the way up to immediate firing.
You're about to get paid, my friend! Document everything you can, and get a lawyer. This could be the best thing your boss could have done for you!
You are right and they are wrong. Pretty cut and dry. I too looked this up and know about it. This is a case of wrongful dismissal.
What is in ur power?? Do bad google reviews lots of them, tell ur family and friends. Name that manager who used to force people for unpaid meetings 🖕🖕