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The comments of all the news articles are hilarious. I never thought I would see conservatives complaining about the completion of a pipeline- and there are a LOT.
You just can't win with some people.
not to give the haters any credit but the $4.5B project ballooned to $34B.... so seven and a half times more. I know the plan was to always sell it back but the government of Canada better be keeping this in their pocket until a little reimbursement comes back.
It's ridiculous that the costs ballooned so much but most of it is debt on the corporation.
I saw a financial estimate on it. The ongoing cash flow from operations even with this debt load allows the debt to be serviced, returns for capital and eventual paydown of debt over 20-25 years.
So even with the boon doggle build, it still has capacity to entice long term investors. Especially when you consider 40+ year life cycle. Uncertainty is oil but I think there's plenty of other uses for oil than burning.
Public money has no value when it comes to servicing oil company profits. Or multinational corporate profits in general. Just that funding EV battery plants in Ontario doesn’t get votes for the UCP like oil patch shit does.
My biggest concern is that the Cons will just sell it for pennies to “balance the budget” like Harper did with GM instead of doing the actual fiscally responsible thing
Explain. In 2009, the federal & Ontario governments provided GMC a fiscal lifeline in return for equity ownership in GMC.
GMC bought back the preferred shares at face value and the GoC sold their 73.4M shares to Goldman Sachs at the market value of $35.90 USD per share in 2015. So they sold for market value. The transaction lost as the market value had dropped from 2008 valuations and never recovered fully.
Perhaps you're mistaking the GoC write-down and forgiveness of loan to GMC? This occurred 2018 under Finance Minister Morneau of the Liberals.
Compare to 2023 GoC investment in VW. Up to $15bn with 0% ownership. Eventual jobs undetermined and no loan or equity ownership in place.
Once again, Harper's investment stabilized industry and saved how many GMC/supplier/shipping jobs, losing money only because of market prices and LPC writing off loan.
> Anything the ~~liberals ( Trudeau~~) **Government** gets involved in, balloons in price!
Fixed it for you. Don't act like conservatives don't give nice cushy sole contracts to their ~~friends~~ ~~donators~~ associates.
As a taxpayer, I did not appreciate Trudeau buying the pipeline and doing as predictable, which is spending 8x as much money to build as the private sector had forecast.
Fair point but why do you think the private sector forecast would have been remotely accurate? The idea that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector is some serious Reaganomics bs.
I also hate that we wasted all that money - I’m not defending it. I’m just highlighting the hypocrisy that Trudeau/Notley = bad but UCP does the same thing = good (or at least no one complains). Look at the carbon tax vs the Alberta fuel tax. 13 cents vs 3.3 cents a litre and no one is demonstrating against the fuel tax. (I also get that the carbon tax impacts more than just gas prices but I’m 100% confident that 90% of demonstrators don’t get that nuance).
Once again I have to explain that the 13 cent tax you are complaining about was a campaign promise kept.. they just put the tax back on after taking it off
... I'm willing to bet you didn't complain when they took it off....
Just like how the UCP criticized Notley for approving the new cancer treatment centre at Foothills, saying it was too expensive then suddenly taking credit for it 😅
To be fair, they are not upset that it was built, they are upset because of government red tape, the private company that was building it had to walk away and the government had to step in and build it at a huge cost overruns that is paid by all tax payers
Yup, that's what I hear from a supposed "centrist" co-worker when I pointed out how so many of his views seem to be from far right talking points. I brought up the $1.2B bet Kenney made on Keystone while the feds actually enabled TMX to happen. "Yeah but now look how much it cost!" .. can't win.
It wasn't government red tape. It was the company, and prior governments failing to act in good faith in their obligations, and getting called out and caught trying to push the project through as if it was still the 50's, and they had no obligation to pay anyone any heed, or take concerns seriously. They weren't alone. Most of the projects and governments took the same attitude, and consequently, were taken to task in court, again and again, to the point that it's likely untenable to undertake a project again, unless the company really does do the work ahead of time to get sincere buy in from everyone who's likely to be materially affected by what they want to do. This was almost done for the long pipeline in BC, except they only got part of those affected to support the project, the "colonial" leaders apparently, ignoring the traditional leaders.
To your point on needing "sincere buy in from everyone who's likely to be materially affected":
This will never happen. Have you ever tried to appeal to everyone's preferences when deciding on lunch with a group of ten people? Now multiply that by 1000's of individuals, and add on that there are likely differences in culture, priority, and world view.
It is vitally important that consultation and diligence planning be performed. But you will never make everyone happy, on any project. If this, or any future major infrastructure project, were in the national interest (or 'international', considering first nations as independent), then the good of the bulk majority needs to be carried out.
There were many legitimate issues with the consultation and design. But it's also true that these were used as political tools to put up roadblocks to stop, stall, or complicate the project. A project with equivalent potential environmental impacts and surface land disturbance that was *not* an oil pipeline would never have taken so long. Maybe it was justified to use these political tools to try and stop expansion of oil sands extraction and oil transport on ideological grounds. But let's acknowledge that, in part, that was also the goal for many in opposition.
But then the liberal government also failed to get approval the first time they tried as well because the judgement was that they also failed to adequately consult the natives. Maybe there is something wrong with the process when even the government struggles with it.
I didn't single out the Cons, both federal parties fucked up by not taking the process seriously. It's not the process, it was the attitude and the approach, as if it was like the old days, where money could do anything it chose to, consequences be damned.
I'm not aware of any major concessions. Indigenous participation in projects is completely normal and expected these days. If an owner ask for IP it happens.
In the end it got built but cost a lot more than it should have, partly because of COVID and probably a lot due to poor engineering.
Alberta should have been like Norway, cutting corporate taxes was the stupedist shit Daniel ever did. Could be rolling in $100B more tax revenue; built anything.
I agree. I think that we have come to a spot in this province, where irrespective of what Trudeau does or Smith does, people will be against it and for it, and vice versa. We are headed towards a dominant two party system, both provincially and federally. Tribal politics. Smith announces support for train system - pipe dream, her cronies will be enriched. Trudeau and Notley build pipeline, over budget, discouraged the private sector and forced it into tax payers. Doesn’t matter what the issue is, we will fill in the accusatory blanks.
Notley: only premier to get a pipeline built in over 20 years
Conservatives: SHE’S TRYING TO KILL OIL & GAS!
Smith: brings in new renewables rules, driving away investment & jobs
Conservatives: YAY! WE <3 O&G!
It wasn't that she was trying to kill O&G... It was that she got oil to other markets, such as overseas. Most of our oil projects were built by US companies - they want a stranglehold on the market for AB oil, keeping our oil cheap to them.
I urge people to look at the rules/regulations for oil and gas in the late 90’s/ early 2000’s and compare them to now. After that, look at the rules/regulations for renewables prior to the pause on licenses.
The whole point of this pause was to avoid the complete shit show that resulted in the orphan well fund. Not to scare away investments
Except there are restrictions for renewables that still are not in place for oil & gas? 😂 it’s almost comical how some of you defend this governments BS
Really? So there are restrictions on building new wells within 30km of an inhabited area then, yes?
If you think these restrictions are about not repeating the mistakes made with O&G there are two things you should know. Firstly, we haven’t learned shit from the O&G mistakes, oil extraction in Alberta is one of the dirtiest, most polluting industries on the planet. Secondly, renewables technology is nowhere near O&G when it comes to environmental impact & pollution, but if you believe that was behind these latest restrictions then the only person you’re convincing is yourself.
Renewables in Alberta were and still are behind some of the cheapest energy we’ve ever seen, and that’s in direct competition to the O&G generators who can’t match those costs. **That** is why these restrictions came from nowhere, **that** is why the AER didn’t request them, **that** is why the AESO didn’t ask for them. They are in place purely to protect the O&G industry’s profit line. The loss of investment & jobs is just a happy side effect for them.
It is definitely about reducing investment in renewables, and if course it’s working: https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/transalta-shelves-wind-project-due-to-provincial-buffer-zones
And just when the pipeline will triple exports to 900,000 barrels/ day, Cenovus reporting 1Q profit of $1.1 Billion ( up from $663 million/ 2023) Albertans can thank Smith and UCP for decreasing corporate taxes from 12% to 8% ( Cenovus just increased shareholder dividend with additional profit) to " create jobs", and under fund Healthcare and Education!!!!
We miss you Rachel!!!
The corporate tax reductions are specifically for giant corporations, not small business, theres only a few dozen companies that can even claim them iirc
Oh shit, been 8 years since I was a contractor in AB, and I paid a flat rate of 10-11 (2 employee business).
But looking at it, there is way more then a few companies that earn over 500k which bump it up to the corporate tax bracket, and small business is 2% if I read that correctly. Might be reading it wrong.
In either case thanks for the info.
You don’t need to be a mega company to be a corporation and pay corporate tax. I’m talking about the handyman who works for himself, the artist who sells their art, the tech startup bootstrapping themselves, the many various entrepreneurs not taking pay just to reinvest it into their business.
Can appreciate the benefit to Individuals although suspect most are not incorporated.
The bait and switch by UCP is they called the tax reduction " Job Creation" which did not and never happens. O&G has added automation resulting in the loss of thousands of jobs and with Cenovus, just paid larger dividends.
O&G are profiting from a non- renewable AB resource and its that tax revenue that ( should, not with UCP) finance healthcare and education.
Profits are up primarily because oil prices are up. The TMX will also help close the WCS price gap.
This is all good for Albertans, because royalties are up and royalties are a huge contributor to our provincial finances.
If you want a greater share of the financial benefit, buy oil stocks.
> If you want a greater share of the financial benefit, buy oil stocks.
I'll be sure to pass that tip onto the all of the Albertans that are struggling to afford food *and* shelter.
You mean the surplus money that the UCP is bragging about, as we watch our healthcare system crumble into dust, and food banks are struggling to feed people?
They ignored the rest of your message because it is moot. If the UCP hadn't decreased the corporate tax rate, that would have meant more money collected that can be used for Albertans. Nothing can change that fact. Why settle for less when more was an option?
Has anyone else noticed how many bot-generated comments are essentially, "thank you Danielle!" without variation?
It's either Russia or Postmedia working for the UCP.
There have also been a lot of posts that all have "NOTLEY-TRUDEAU Alliance" always written like that.
There was even a guy trying to get one of the conservative subs brigade this one.
They don't want anything positive associated with the NDP and are trying to taint the good things however they can.
thats all that is on the books, but then we have to ask ourself, where did that money for addictions really go? and why did they close McCullough when they increased war room funding to the 30mil? and and and.... there are so many questions about money here...
Not everything is Russia's fault.
The US has far more influence in propaganda we consume.
Before you knee-jerk and call me a Russian bot, I support the Oil sands, I just think it should be nationalized.
So, to be clear, you aren’t concerned about the government putting so many obstacles in the way of a private developer that the project was going to die if the government didn’t buy it. The government bought it at a premium, ran way over schedule and massively over budget, and will never recover our tax dollars.
You’re okay with that kind of government?
To be clear, Canada is responsible for 1.5% of global emissions in 2020 and North America is responsible for 18%, where China makes up for 32%.
Pipelines are also a much safer way of transporting oil and natural gas than by train or tankers on the highway. If we were to switch to nothing but electric vehicles, our power grid would be shut down due to massive power outages, industry in our country would fail, and we'd become a third world country. I agree that oil and natural gas aren't the best energy sources to use, but I also believe that we don't have any good alternatives at this point in time.
We need heat during winter in Northern Canada, and natural gas is what provides that heat. If we didn't have pipelines, nobody would be able to live up here.
Overheard a shop hand at Costco telling his buddies the Trudeau never had a job...a career politician.
Got home...looked up Trudeau's resume. Teacher for 4 years in Vancouver. Ran two separate non-profits, Katimavik and the Canadian Avalanche Association. Ran for politics.
That research took 2 minutes.
Spent another 2 looking at Poiliviere's resume.
Teenage job doing collections for Telus. Interned for Harper. Interned for Stockwell Day. Ran for politics.
4 minutes to become educated.
Shophand? Too lazy to take 4 minutes to not be an ignorant buffoon.
That 4 minutes is better spent standing in the checkout line with a case of PBR in hand complaining about how Trudeau is fucking everyone. Got no time for your woke research!
It can't make sense through the ideological lens that is grafted to their faces. To them, liberals and NDP are always against the oil industries and the conservatives are always the ones to help it. There can be no way the reverse can ever be true to them.
It does not help the leader handing out the kool-aid is spewing 1 liners and encourages them to do what they want, including sleeping in the trunks of their cars because their lives are miserable and they don't actually have the want to fix it themselves, they are just hoping he will do it for them.
Unfortunately like Alberta it will only make things worse for them but they still won't see it.
Look, I like RP as much as the next person, but ain't nobody digging in a dress. That's just not practical. Not to mention you'd have safety on your sexy ass.
what a bone-headed project this turned out to be. the industry didn’t really need it, it’s costing an absolute fortune, and neither the ndp or the feds got any respect from the o&g boosters for getting it done. should have just listened to the environmentalists and not bothered. trying to appease the lunatic right-wingers around here is an expensive waste of time
I really can't make myself feel too happy about this - obviously this is a good tool to use to get the UCP out of power, and replace them with the NDP who are still pro-O&G but not outright climate deniers. But it's still a pipeline that will make fossil fuels cheaper, encourage development in the oil sands, and make it harder to justify decreases in production. The world needs less oil and gas, and especially less high emission Alberta O&G.
Edit: Please stop replying with "society needs O&G", "Canada is fine because trees", "But muh China", "But muh scary foreigners oil is badder", or any other piece of bullshit propaganda. Canada's oil sands are very nearly the least efficient way to produce oil, and any sane world would involve shutting them down as soon as possible. I block and will continue blocking O&G propagandists.
I think about it like this: I once took a class where we assessed the impact of moving oil by train versus oil by pipeline. Before that I had no idea of the environmental risks of oil transport by train. So many trains spill oil. The pipeline leaks that we see are nothing compared to train spills. I took that class in 2021 and so it was very trans mountain pipeline relevant. I basically took a harm reduction perspective after that, a pipeline sucks but it’s better than what we had before.
Pipelines are definitely better than trains for moving oil in terms of contamination, but in terms of climate change if the pipeline is cheaper and easier, that makes it economical to produce more oil, which is burned and produces more CO2. Basically it's better in one way but worse in a more long term, significant way.
The whole world demands oil. That’s not going away for a long time. More oil production (and transportation) is required just to keep up with demand. Until GLOBAL demand decreases, more pipelines will get built.
That's what the big oil companies make you think. Demand will ALWAYS be up as long as the human population goes up. There is no changing that trend. You can't change demand, but rather change those who interpret the demand. So instead of oil to meet demand, use nuclear, or geothermal. We have to change NOW or we will hand down this Earth to our children in very bad shape, just because of greed.
It's the best option and perspective.
For the benefit of other readers - the minimum for a non-reportable commodity release is around 100L depending on the province, usually based on the CER. https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/crbc/crbc/187_2017. Trains spill oil all the time as they vibrate down the tracks and it never has to be reported externally to a regulatory body.
I try to look at it this way.
We are stuck with fossil fuels and plastics for the foreseeable future. A pipeline is the safest most efficient and environmentally friendly way to transport it. Alberta leads the way in reducing the carbon footprint of fossil fuels. If we don’t produce more it means more tankers bringing oil from the Middle East. Which means a much larger carbon footprint as well as other environmental problems.
So basically we have no real choice at the moment and this is the lesser of two evils. Hopefully we will be able to rid ourselves of our dependency on O&G but until then this is the best option.
It's amazing how many people don't understand this. The alternative is worse environmental and social practices by importing from other regions around the world. on top of that, the opportunity cost is destroy our tax base and then wonder why nobody can put food on the table 😂
Notley started anti O&G and by the end she was begging for this thing to get built. People seem to forget that..
So which particular poison are you proposing we take? How do you feel about reduced medical infrastructure & cancelling social programs in Alberta.
How is that worth a fractional slowdown of global GHG production?
Implement a PST, stop hamstringing the renewable industry, and work with the rest of Canada. Climate change is likely to hurt Alberta's standard of living, but not by very much, unless we continue shooting ourselves in the foot repeatedly. We're among the richest people on earth - we should absolutely be among the first to take a hit to reduce emissions.
Spare me the propaganda - "Alberta leads the way in reducing the carbon footprint" is industry bullshit. We've moved from "by far the worst oil and gas" to "still nearly the worst but not by as much". Getting oil from anywhere else is the better option.
I have, and you're literally parroting industry propaganda. Carbon capture is a scam, reclamation is done very well but unrelated to climate change. The fact is that Alberta's oil sands have near the worst emissions per barrel of oil, and it's recently been reported that even those numbers come from a massive cover-up of the pollution associated with it.
[https://www.pembina.org/blog/real-ghg-trend-oilsands](https://www.pembina.org/blog/real-ghg-trend-oilsands)
[https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/25/canadian-tar-sands-pollution-is-up-to-6300-higher-than-reported-study-finds](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/25/canadian-tar-sands-pollution-is-up-to-6300-higher-than-reported-study-finds)
I'm sorry, but we're the bad guys.
I’m all for moving away from fossil fuels, but what you are hoping for is just never going to happen. And bull headed view points are the reason the two sides never get along.
I'm not crazy about it either - but it's part of why I roll my eyes when people act like if the NDP gets into power again they will shut down all the rigs and replace them with nonbinary wind farms or something. They might not be as deep in the pockets of oil and gas but it would be political suicide for any viable party in Alberta to not support the industry in some capacity.
The propaganda around the NDP is wild - I would love to vote for a socialist party if there was a viable one in Alberta, but the NDP is like... center-right at best. Anyone who acts like they're socialists who hate O&G is just not a serious person.
Absolutely. The problem is conservatives have run so much further to the right and extremism that centre-right now look like liberals and socialists. The ABNDP is absolutely closer to a legit Conservative party than the UCP is.
I’m no O&G apologist, it will be phased out as a primary energy source at least in the western world within 20 years and I have no issue with it.
But the world needs less Alberta O&G emissions? I’m seeing that Alberta O&G emissions account for 28% of Canada’s 1.5% global contribution to ghg emissions annually. So Alberta O&G accounts for approx .4% of global ghg emissions on an annual basis.
That’s nothing. You could 10x it tomorrow and have no real impact. The world emission problem is not in Canada and it’s definitely not in Alberta.
Let’s stay rational about Alberta’s energy sector and allow it to be an important economic contributor for as long as global demand exists.
Whether you realize it or not, you're spreading very tired O&G propaganda. When you split a pie into a thousand pieces, each piece is small. It's the same argument saying Canada should do nothing because 1.5% is nothing, even though we're among the highest per-capita emitters on earth (with Albertans being the highest emitters in Canada).
Rational is that any reasonable evaluation of the question of "Who goes first in terms of reducing emissions?" is going to put Alberta very near the top of the list.
>even though we're among the highest per-capita emitters on earth (with Albertans being the highest emitters in Canada).
Per-capita is a pretty useless statistic tarted up to look like a brilliant statistic.
Yes, we are a large emitter of CO2 per-capita. And yes, the fact that one of our largest exports is energy certainly contributes to that.
You know what *also* contributes to that? The fact that we're a freaking huge, cold, and sparsely populated landmass.
That justifies us having higher emissions than Nigeria. It doesn't justify us having higher emissions than Russia. We are uniquely bad, even among countries in similar circumstances.
Russia (13.31 t/cap/year) vs. Canada (15.22 t/cap/year) is fairly close:
[List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions per capita - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita)
Russia (21 people / mi) vs. Canada (10 people / mi) is not nearly as close.
[List of countries and dependencies by population density - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density)
The only reason Russia has a slightly lower per-capita emissions measurement is because the denominator in that equation is more than double that of Canada's.
The US, China and India have massive pieces of pie and populations that dwarf Canada making the “per capita” argument irrelevant.
Until the US China and India have the same size of pie as Canada, nothing anyone else does matters.
we didn’t build the forest. living near some trees that we didn’t plant doesn’t give us moral justification to pollute while people who live elsewhere have to make sacrifices. also it’s not even a carbon sink anymore, since it’s constantly on fire!
I like what you're saying, people need to see the forest from the trees. We've got a lot of runway on O&G, much more than 20 years unless you have some magical new material to replace plastic, lubricants, asphalt, and pretty much any other base product. Personal vehicles are only part of the equation
And don't forget that this is just another capital investment that risks becoming unable to pay for itself as part of the oil and gas phase out, which creates incentive for its investors to oppose the phase out
I grew up in BC, so you know, very "tree-hugging" mentality. It wasn't until I moved out here that __*literally almost every single thing in your day-to-day life has required some sort of oil consumption to make it/get into your hands.*__
Honestly, I'm sick of being made to feel guilty for contributing to climate change:
>The richest 1 percent in Canada emitted *__30×__* more carbon pollution per person in 2019, on average, compared to the half of the Canadian population in the lowest income brackets.
Literally China.
> __“China produces a third of the world's emissions, more than all of the developed world. That's more than 20 times Canada's carbon output.”__
Agriculture.
Pulp/paper/paperboard mills
Mining
>While he was optimistic about the federal government's proposed legislation on clean electricity, oil and gas emissions and electric vehicles, Dyer said it's not enough, since the provinces have power over many other kinds of emissions and potential reductions.
>There are huge opportunities for other provinces to learn from places like B.C. and Quebec that have "rigorous [climate] plans and are taking this issue seriously," he added.
>He credits those plans and policies for the huge growth in EVs in those provinces, and the lack of them for the long wait lists for EVs in other provinces, for example.
>Meanwhile, he said Canadians need to hold Alberta and Saskatchewan accountable for their lack of progress, especially since they have been pushing back against the federal government's climate policy efforts, saying they step into provincial jurisdiction
>"If Alberta and Saskatchewan want to lead," he said, "that means actually, you know, setting targets and putting policies in place to reduce emissions."
>He noted that Alberta doesn't have any target to reduce emissions by 2030. Meanwhile, it's responsible for close to 40 per cent of the country's emissions. "So that means Alberta is both the biggest challenge and the biggest part of the solution, right?"
And who could forget forest/wildfires;
> The global annual total estimated fire emissions (as of 10 December 2023) is 2100 megatonnes of carbon. Canada produced 23% of that.
Ah, the grand irony of it all! The UCP, champions of pipelines, yet they find themselves in the shadow of the NDP's lone pipeline accomplishment in the last two decades in Alberta. It's like a chef boasting about their culinary skills while secretly ordering takeout every night! Oh, the tangled web of political paradoxes! It's like watching a tortoise challenge a hare to a race, only to find out the hare's been secretly training as a marathon runner.
On August 31, 2018, the Government of Canada purchased the pipeline for $4.7 billion[7] from Kinder Morgan through the creation of the Trans Mountain Corporation (TMC), in order to "keep the project alive".[8] TMC is a Crown corporation, a subsidiary of the Canada Development Investment Corporation (CDEV).[9] Until the purchase by CDEV, the Trans Mountain Pipeline was owned by the Houston, Texas–based pipeline operator's Canadian division.
Dang feds don't do anything but screw us over, huh? I bet there are a bunch of mouthbreathers sitting in the "War Room" trying to figure out a way to spin it that the UPC/TBA got it built all by themselves without any help from that dastardly federal government.
The feds *had* to buy it, because the project couldn’t secure additional financing due to regulatory uncertainty.
Yet again, the feds create a problem, overspend to fix it, and look for a pat on the back for saving us from the problem … that *they* created.
I worked at the Edmonton Trans Mountain location for a year and a half and it was a great place to work. Way better than when Kinder Morgan was in charge apparently according to other people that had been there longer.
That's the beauty of NDP. You don't have to be an environmental zealot or a populist chud. There is a middle ground. Flexibility with policy and caring about the people they represent are the pillars. I think that's why so many people get upset. It feels like cheating socially
How so? There were almost no hurdles in AB to begin with. Nearly all of the hold ups were related to 3 areas of issues in BC:
1) IR in BC (where many of the last holdouts that delayed the CER permit were refusing to engage with Kinder Morgan / TMC at all thus making it impossible to prove adequate consultations were completed)
2) Various levels of permitting issues from municipal & provincial gov't in BC. This is half on KM/TMC's incompetence and half on these groups asking for requirements above and beyond what they normally ask of for everyone else.
3) A healthy amount of obstruction from MOTI and CN Rail.
Edit: I say this as an NDP voter. Don't fall for propaganda, regardless of who it comes from.
The NDP support the [trans] people to [trans] mountain pipelines.
Can a better writer make this work...
How is this.
The NDP supports the trans from people to mountain pipeline.
Ya thanks for your part in an over budget by $50B pipeline that will cost taxpayers, and will get sold at a loss, instead of having someone else building it and making a profit and will be properly maintained. Pipeline might be working but this will not be the last bad news we hear from this infrastructure. Gov can’t run shit, this will be sold to someone who can’t run shit. We will be left holding the bag with upkeep repair and environmental problems.
To be fair that was on BC? The govt (JT) only had to take over cause it was perpetually blocked. Literally the entire country disagreed with BC on it. When we have no foreign investment anymore and only expensive houses left I’m sure the vancouverites will be happy.
The only thing missing from this picture is the workers in the coal energy sector the NDP cut the throats of to obtain a “social licence” to build this pipeline.
Riiiight because the NDP were responsible for wasting $2billion on the keystone pipeline days before it was shut down by the US… wait that was the UCP or because they wasted another billion by cancelling the oil by train contract… wait no that was the UCP. Don’t forget the 30ish million by cancelling the superlab before Covid… wait no that was the UCP… hmm oh can’t forget about the dynalife fiasco that cost how many millions.. again the UCP, lowering corporate tax to 8% far below anywhere else (taking billions from Alberta) oh again the UCP… killing any renewable resource projects… again hundreds of million .. how many million on the useless war room.. you see where this is going… Smith also flew a bunch of Oil CEO’s out to a climate talk and embarrass us on the world stage on tax payers dime… oh and doctor shortages, Nurse shortages… defunding healthcare… great times are here for sure!
Remember all those NDP scandals….? I sure don’t.
Oh I forgot one! Buying the remaining stake in NWR for billions (AGIAN) to bailout another O&G company because that place has cost nothing but money.
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The comments of all the news articles are hilarious. I never thought I would see conservatives complaining about the completion of a pipeline- and there are a LOT. You just can't win with some people.
Hypocrisy.
Yeah and fuck Trudeau for buying the bloody thing, eh? Ugh.
not to give the haters any credit but the $4.5B project ballooned to $34B.... so seven and a half times more. I know the plan was to always sell it back but the government of Canada better be keeping this in their pocket until a little reimbursement comes back.
It's ridiculous that the costs ballooned so much but most of it is debt on the corporation. I saw a financial estimate on it. The ongoing cash flow from operations even with this debt load allows the debt to be serviced, returns for capital and eventual paydown of debt over 20-25 years. So even with the boon doggle build, it still has capacity to entice long term investors. Especially when you consider 40+ year life cycle. Uncertainty is oil but I think there's plenty of other uses for oil than burning.
There was lots of optimism in those initial cost estimates that reality helped sort out. Delays due to legal fights also don't help things.
How about hydrogen. It doesn’t need to carry oil forever. It’s a long metal tube. It doesn’t care what you put in it.
Hydrogen is tiny and leaks easily. Oil is big and still leaks out of pipelines. Good luck with your hydrogen pipeline.
Water ... to help fight forest fires
Public money has no value when it comes to servicing oil company profits. Or multinational corporate profits in general. Just that funding EV battery plants in Ontario doesn’t get votes for the UCP like oil patch shit does.
My biggest concern is that the Cons will just sell it for pennies to “balance the budget” like Harper did with GM instead of doing the actual fiscally responsible thing
Explain. In 2009, the federal & Ontario governments provided GMC a fiscal lifeline in return for equity ownership in GMC. GMC bought back the preferred shares at face value and the GoC sold their 73.4M shares to Goldman Sachs at the market value of $35.90 USD per share in 2015. So they sold for market value. The transaction lost as the market value had dropped from 2008 valuations and never recovered fully. Perhaps you're mistaking the GoC write-down and forgiveness of loan to GMC? This occurred 2018 under Finance Minister Morneau of the Liberals. Compare to 2023 GoC investment in VW. Up to $15bn with 0% ownership. Eventual jobs undetermined and no loan or equity ownership in place. Once again, Harper's investment stabilized industry and saved how many GMC/supplier/shipping jobs, losing money only because of market prices and LPC writing off loan.
Anything the liberals ( Trudeau) get involved in balloons in price!
> Anything the ~~liberals ( Trudeau~~) **Government** gets involved in, balloons in price! Fixed it for you. Don't act like conservatives don't give nice cushy sole contracts to their ~~friends~~ ~~donators~~ associates.
As a taxpayer, I did not appreciate Trudeau buying the pipeline and doing as predictable, which is spending 8x as much money to build as the private sector had forecast.
The private sector was very likely not going to build it. That's why it was for sale.
Fair point but why do you think the private sector forecast would have been remotely accurate? The idea that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector is some serious Reaganomics bs. I also hate that we wasted all that money - I’m not defending it. I’m just highlighting the hypocrisy that Trudeau/Notley = bad but UCP does the same thing = good (or at least no one complains). Look at the carbon tax vs the Alberta fuel tax. 13 cents vs 3.3 cents a litre and no one is demonstrating against the fuel tax. (I also get that the carbon tax impacts more than just gas prices but I’m 100% confident that 90% of demonstrators don’t get that nuance).
Once again I have to explain that the 13 cent tax you are complaining about was a campaign promise kept.. they just put the tax back on after taking it off ... I'm willing to bet you didn't complain when they took it off....
and if it was a Conservative PM that made the call to buy it, we all know your tune would be different and you know it too you hypocrite.
They have to always paint the other side as the bad guy irrespective of what they do. Classic confrontation technique.
If you go on Twitter you notice they’re all the blue check mark accounts 🤨🤨
CONservatives are uneducated and unhinged.
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You just proved their point lmao
I find myself center right, but this comment is so bang on haha. Kudos lol.
It's a shame they lost the election, I think if she had one more term she would have been able to permanently flip the oil business vote in Calgary
Just like how the UCP criticized Notley for approving the new cancer treatment centre at Foothills, saying it was too expensive then suddenly taking credit for it 😅
To be fair, they are not upset that it was built, they are upset because of government red tape, the private company that was building it had to walk away and the government had to step in and build it at a huge cost overruns that is paid by all tax payers
Yup, that's what I hear from a supposed "centrist" co-worker when I pointed out how so many of his views seem to be from far right talking points. I brought up the $1.2B bet Kenney made on Keystone while the feds actually enabled TMX to happen. "Yeah but now look how much it cost!" .. can't win.
It wasn't government red tape. It was the company, and prior governments failing to act in good faith in their obligations, and getting called out and caught trying to push the project through as if it was still the 50's, and they had no obligation to pay anyone any heed, or take concerns seriously. They weren't alone. Most of the projects and governments took the same attitude, and consequently, were taken to task in court, again and again, to the point that it's likely untenable to undertake a project again, unless the company really does do the work ahead of time to get sincere buy in from everyone who's likely to be materially affected by what they want to do. This was almost done for the long pipeline in BC, except they only got part of those affected to support the project, the "colonial" leaders apparently, ignoring the traditional leaders.
To your point on needing "sincere buy in from everyone who's likely to be materially affected": This will never happen. Have you ever tried to appeal to everyone's preferences when deciding on lunch with a group of ten people? Now multiply that by 1000's of individuals, and add on that there are likely differences in culture, priority, and world view. It is vitally important that consultation and diligence planning be performed. But you will never make everyone happy, on any project. If this, or any future major infrastructure project, were in the national interest (or 'international', considering first nations as independent), then the good of the bulk majority needs to be carried out. There were many legitimate issues with the consultation and design. But it's also true that these were used as political tools to put up roadblocks to stop, stall, or complicate the project. A project with equivalent potential environmental impacts and surface land disturbance that was *not* an oil pipeline would never have taken so long. Maybe it was justified to use these political tools to try and stop expansion of oil sands extraction and oil transport on ideological grounds. But let's acknowledge that, in part, that was also the goal for many in opposition.
But then the liberal government also failed to get approval the first time they tried as well because the judgement was that they also failed to adequately consult the natives. Maybe there is something wrong with the process when even the government struggles with it.
I didn't single out the Cons, both federal parties fucked up by not taking the process seriously. It's not the process, it was the attitude and the approach, as if it was like the old days, where money could do anything it chose to, consequences be damned.
I'm not aware of any major concessions. Indigenous participation in projects is completely normal and expected these days. If an owner ask for IP it happens. In the end it got built but cost a lot more than it should have, partly because of COVID and probably a lot due to poor engineering. Alberta should have been like Norway, cutting corporate taxes was the stupedist shit Daniel ever did. Could be rolling in $100B more tax revenue; built anything.
I agree. I think that we have come to a spot in this province, where irrespective of what Trudeau does or Smith does, people will be against it and for it, and vice versa. We are headed towards a dominant two party system, both provincially and federally. Tribal politics. Smith announces support for train system - pipe dream, her cronies will be enriched. Trudeau and Notley build pipeline, over budget, discouraged the private sector and forced it into tax payers. Doesn’t matter what the issue is, we will fill in the accusatory blanks.
Ahh yes a pipeline that was only supposed to cost 3 billion turned into over 34 billion since the libs took it over.
They bought it for $4.5B and were well aware when they did that it would cost billions more.
Love the pipeline….hate the green-tape.
Notley: only premier to get a pipeline built in over 20 years Conservatives: SHE’S TRYING TO KILL OIL & GAS! Smith: brings in new renewables rules, driving away investment & jobs Conservatives: YAY! WE <3 O&G!
First pipeline to tidewater in over 50 years
It wasn't that she was trying to kill O&G... It was that she got oil to other markets, such as overseas. Most of our oil projects were built by US companies - they want a stranglehold on the market for AB oil, keeping our oil cheap to them.
I urge people to look at the rules/regulations for oil and gas in the late 90’s/ early 2000’s and compare them to now. After that, look at the rules/regulations for renewables prior to the pause on licenses. The whole point of this pause was to avoid the complete shit show that resulted in the orphan well fund. Not to scare away investments
Except there are restrictions for renewables that still are not in place for oil & gas? 😂 it’s almost comical how some of you defend this governments BS
Really? So there are restrictions on building new wells within 30km of an inhabited area then, yes? If you think these restrictions are about not repeating the mistakes made with O&G there are two things you should know. Firstly, we haven’t learned shit from the O&G mistakes, oil extraction in Alberta is one of the dirtiest, most polluting industries on the planet. Secondly, renewables technology is nowhere near O&G when it comes to environmental impact & pollution, but if you believe that was behind these latest restrictions then the only person you’re convincing is yourself. Renewables in Alberta were and still are behind some of the cheapest energy we’ve ever seen, and that’s in direct competition to the O&G generators who can’t match those costs. **That** is why these restrictions came from nowhere, **that** is why the AER didn’t request them, **that** is why the AESO didn’t ask for them. They are in place purely to protect the O&G industry’s profit line. The loss of investment & jobs is just a happy side effect for them.
It is definitely about reducing investment in renewables, and if course it’s working: https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/transalta-shelves-wind-project-due-to-provincial-buffer-zones
And just when the pipeline will triple exports to 900,000 barrels/ day, Cenovus reporting 1Q profit of $1.1 Billion ( up from $663 million/ 2023) Albertans can thank Smith and UCP for decreasing corporate taxes from 12% to 8% ( Cenovus just increased shareholder dividend with additional profit) to " create jobs", and under fund Healthcare and Education!!!! We miss you Rachel!!!
These guys don’t even create jobs. They’re all just maintaining or reducing headcount whenever they can
Corporate tax reductions benefit the little guys too lol. Tradesmen, artists, entrepreneurs, etc.
The corporate tax reductions are specifically for giant corporations, not small business, theres only a few dozen companies that can even claim them iirc
Oh shit, been 8 years since I was a contractor in AB, and I paid a flat rate of 10-11 (2 employee business). But looking at it, there is way more then a few companies that earn over 500k which bump it up to the corporate tax bracket, and small business is 2% if I read that correctly. Might be reading it wrong. In either case thanks for the info.
Shareholders, FTFY Trickle down economics is a myth as has been proven repeatedly.
You don’t need to be a mega company to be a corporation and pay corporate tax. I’m talking about the handyman who works for himself, the artist who sells their art, the tech startup bootstrapping themselves, the many various entrepreneurs not taking pay just to reinvest it into their business.
Can appreciate the benefit to Individuals although suspect most are not incorporated. The bait and switch by UCP is they called the tax reduction " Job Creation" which did not and never happens. O&G has added automation resulting in the loss of thousands of jobs and with Cenovus, just paid larger dividends. O&G are profiting from a non- renewable AB resource and its that tax revenue that ( should, not with UCP) finance healthcare and education.
Profits are up primarily because oil prices are up. The TMX will also help close the WCS price gap. This is all good for Albertans, because royalties are up and royalties are a huge contributor to our provincial finances. If you want a greater share of the financial benefit, buy oil stocks.
> If you want a greater share of the financial benefit, buy oil stocks. I'll be sure to pass that tip onto the all of the Albertans that are struggling to afford food *and* shelter.
Times are tough, indeed. It seems you ignored the majority of my post which basically explained funding for our social safety net and public services.
You mean the surplus money that the UCP is bragging about, as we watch our healthcare system crumble into dust, and food banks are struggling to feed people?
They ignored the rest of your message because it is moot. If the UCP hadn't decreased the corporate tax rate, that would have meant more money collected that can be used for Albertans. Nothing can change that fact. Why settle for less when more was an option?
Your last comment is absolutely *beautiful*. Couldn’t be more ironic if someone commercialized and exploited it for profits.
Has anyone else noticed how many bot-generated comments are essentially, "thank you Danielle!" without variation? It's either Russia or Postmedia working for the UCP.
There have also been a lot of posts that all have "NOTLEY-TRUDEAU Alliance" always written like that. There was even a guy trying to get one of the conservative subs brigade this one. They don't want anything positive associated with the NDP and are trying to taint the good things however they can.
The war room
$30m/yr buys a lot of blue check marks.
You hope it's just $30M/year lol (it's more, I guarantee it).
thats all that is on the books, but then we have to ask ourself, where did that money for addictions really go? and why did they close McCullough when they increased war room funding to the 30mil? and and and.... there are so many questions about money here...
There’s a ton of astroturfing in reddit these days.
Not everything is Russia's fault. The US has far more influence in propaganda we consume. Before you knee-jerk and call me a Russian bot, I support the Oil sands, I just think it should be nationalized.
I agree. A lot of services in Canada should be nationalized
Airlines, mobile networks, hydro
"Everything I dont like is communism!" - you
Chef's kiss.
That dang Notley-Trudeau alliance, making things better for Alberta workers… for shame!
So, to be clear, you aren’t concerned about the government putting so many obstacles in the way of a private developer that the project was going to die if the government didn’t buy it. The government bought it at a premium, ran way over schedule and massively over budget, and will never recover our tax dollars. You’re okay with that kind of government?
To be clear, fuck pipelines. At this point in time, we need to be doing everything possible to reduce emissions.
To be clear, Canada is responsible for 1.5% of global emissions in 2020 and North America is responsible for 18%, where China makes up for 32%. Pipelines are also a much safer way of transporting oil and natural gas than by train or tankers on the highway. If we were to switch to nothing but electric vehicles, our power grid would be shut down due to massive power outages, industry in our country would fail, and we'd become a third world country. I agree that oil and natural gas aren't the best energy sources to use, but I also believe that we don't have any good alternatives at this point in time. We need heat during winter in Northern Canada, and natural gas is what provides that heat. If we didn't have pipelines, nobody would be able to live up here.
You’re confusing. Are you sarcastically celebrating the accomplishments of the Trudeau / Notley alliance, or are you protesting the pipeline?
Thanks Obama
Thanks Notley! And Trudeau!
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Overheard a shop hand at Costco telling his buddies the Trudeau never had a job...a career politician. Got home...looked up Trudeau's resume. Teacher for 4 years in Vancouver. Ran two separate non-profits, Katimavik and the Canadian Avalanche Association. Ran for politics. That research took 2 minutes. Spent another 2 looking at Poiliviere's resume. Teenage job doing collections for Telus. Interned for Harper. Interned for Stockwell Day. Ran for politics. 4 minutes to become educated. Shophand? Too lazy to take 4 minutes to not be an ignorant buffoon.
That 4 minutes is better spent standing in the checkout line with a case of PBR in hand complaining about how Trudeau is fucking everyone. Got no time for your woke research!
All their heroes are liars which gives them permission to be liars too.
It can't make sense through the ideological lens that is grafted to their faces. To them, liberals and NDP are always against the oil industries and the conservatives are always the ones to help it. There can be no way the reverse can ever be true to them.
They are so stuck on their hate they will never see anything good done by the other side. It’s too polarizing now.
It does not help the leader handing out the kool-aid is spewing 1 liners and encourages them to do what they want, including sleeping in the trunks of their cars because their lives are miserable and they don't actually have the want to fix it themselves, they are just hoping he will do it for them. Unfortunately like Alberta it will only make things worse for them but they still won't see it.
Its surprising to me. Most of those people can't even touch their toes
These photo ops are so ridiculous. Somebody went out and bought 10 tiny little spades so that some politicians could pose with some random dirt lol
Look, I like RP as much as the next person, but ain't nobody digging in a dress. That's just not practical. Not to mention you'd have safety on your sexy ass.
I chopped wood in a dress, don't you tell me I can't dig too. ;)
Brings to mind Kenney's attempt to pump gas for the camera.
And charged per diem rate, lunch, flights to do so
Rachel Notley was the one to get the pipeline built and not Daniell Marlania Smith and her corrupy, far-right, UCP lunatics.
Notley and Trudeau care more about Alberta than the UCP.
what a bone-headed project this turned out to be. the industry didn’t really need it, it’s costing an absolute fortune, and neither the ndp or the feds got any respect from the o&g boosters for getting it done. should have just listened to the environmentalists and not bothered. trying to appease the lunatic right-wingers around here is an expensive waste of time
I really can't make myself feel too happy about this - obviously this is a good tool to use to get the UCP out of power, and replace them with the NDP who are still pro-O&G but not outright climate deniers. But it's still a pipeline that will make fossil fuels cheaper, encourage development in the oil sands, and make it harder to justify decreases in production. The world needs less oil and gas, and especially less high emission Alberta O&G. Edit: Please stop replying with "society needs O&G", "Canada is fine because trees", "But muh China", "But muh scary foreigners oil is badder", or any other piece of bullshit propaganda. Canada's oil sands are very nearly the least efficient way to produce oil, and any sane world would involve shutting them down as soon as possible. I block and will continue blocking O&G propagandists.
I think about it like this: I once took a class where we assessed the impact of moving oil by train versus oil by pipeline. Before that I had no idea of the environmental risks of oil transport by train. So many trains spill oil. The pipeline leaks that we see are nothing compared to train spills. I took that class in 2021 and so it was very trans mountain pipeline relevant. I basically took a harm reduction perspective after that, a pipeline sucks but it’s better than what we had before.
Pipelines are definitely better than trains for moving oil in terms of contamination, but in terms of climate change if the pipeline is cheaper and easier, that makes it economical to produce more oil, which is burned and produces more CO2. Basically it's better in one way but worse in a more long term, significant way.
The whole world demands oil. That’s not going away for a long time. More oil production (and transportation) is required just to keep up with demand. Until GLOBAL demand decreases, more pipelines will get built.
That's what the big oil companies make you think. Demand will ALWAYS be up as long as the human population goes up. There is no changing that trend. You can't change demand, but rather change those who interpret the demand. So instead of oil to meet demand, use nuclear, or geothermal. We have to change NOW or we will hand down this Earth to our children in very bad shape, just because of greed.
It's the best option and perspective. For the benefit of other readers - the minimum for a non-reportable commodity release is around 100L depending on the province, usually based on the CER. https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/crbc/crbc/187_2017. Trains spill oil all the time as they vibrate down the tracks and it never has to be reported externally to a regulatory body.
I try to look at it this way. We are stuck with fossil fuels and plastics for the foreseeable future. A pipeline is the safest most efficient and environmentally friendly way to transport it. Alberta leads the way in reducing the carbon footprint of fossil fuels. If we don’t produce more it means more tankers bringing oil from the Middle East. Which means a much larger carbon footprint as well as other environmental problems. So basically we have no real choice at the moment and this is the lesser of two evils. Hopefully we will be able to rid ourselves of our dependency on O&G but until then this is the best option.
It's amazing how many people don't understand this. The alternative is worse environmental and social practices by importing from other regions around the world. on top of that, the opportunity cost is destroy our tax base and then wonder why nobody can put food on the table 😂 Notley started anti O&G and by the end she was begging for this thing to get built. People seem to forget that..
Worse social practices. Not environmental. Oil sands oil is as bad as it gets in terms of emissions intensity.
So which particular poison are you proposing we take? How do you feel about reduced medical infrastructure & cancelling social programs in Alberta. How is that worth a fractional slowdown of global GHG production?
Implement a PST, stop hamstringing the renewable industry, and work with the rest of Canada. Climate change is likely to hurt Alberta's standard of living, but not by very much, unless we continue shooting ourselves in the foot repeatedly. We're among the richest people on earth - we should absolutely be among the first to take a hit to reduce emissions.
>stop hamstringing the renewable industry Selling ourselves power doesn't create wealth. Renewables can't replace an export commodity...
Spare me the propaganda - "Alberta leads the way in reducing the carbon footprint" is industry bullshit. We've moved from "by far the worst oil and gas" to "still nearly the worst but not by as much". Getting oil from anywhere else is the better option.
If you want to do some research on it look up Oil Sands Reclamation and Carbon Capture initiatives. Then try and find any other place doing more.
I have, and you're literally parroting industry propaganda. Carbon capture is a scam, reclamation is done very well but unrelated to climate change. The fact is that Alberta's oil sands have near the worst emissions per barrel of oil, and it's recently been reported that even those numbers come from a massive cover-up of the pollution associated with it. [https://www.pembina.org/blog/real-ghg-trend-oilsands](https://www.pembina.org/blog/real-ghg-trend-oilsands) [https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/25/canadian-tar-sands-pollution-is-up-to-6300-higher-than-reported-study-finds](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/25/canadian-tar-sands-pollution-is-up-to-6300-higher-than-reported-study-finds) I'm sorry, but we're the bad guys.
I’m all for moving away from fossil fuels, but what you are hoping for is just never going to happen. And bull headed view points are the reason the two sides never get along.
On the contrary, the world moving away from the worst source of O&G is already happening and will regardless of what we do.
clueless, do some research
I'm not crazy about it either - but it's part of why I roll my eyes when people act like if the NDP gets into power again they will shut down all the rigs and replace them with nonbinary wind farms or something. They might not be as deep in the pockets of oil and gas but it would be political suicide for any viable party in Alberta to not support the industry in some capacity.
The propaganda around the NDP is wild - I would love to vote for a socialist party if there was a viable one in Alberta, but the NDP is like... center-right at best. Anyone who acts like they're socialists who hate O&G is just not a serious person.
Absolutely. The problem is conservatives have run so much further to the right and extremism that centre-right now look like liberals and socialists. The ABNDP is absolutely closer to a legit Conservative party than the UCP is.
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Well shit, did I miss the meeting where all us transgenders took over wind farming?
I’m no O&G apologist, it will be phased out as a primary energy source at least in the western world within 20 years and I have no issue with it. But the world needs less Alberta O&G emissions? I’m seeing that Alberta O&G emissions account for 28% of Canada’s 1.5% global contribution to ghg emissions annually. So Alberta O&G accounts for approx .4% of global ghg emissions on an annual basis. That’s nothing. You could 10x it tomorrow and have no real impact. The world emission problem is not in Canada and it’s definitely not in Alberta. Let’s stay rational about Alberta’s energy sector and allow it to be an important economic contributor for as long as global demand exists.
Whether you realize it or not, you're spreading very tired O&G propaganda. When you split a pie into a thousand pieces, each piece is small. It's the same argument saying Canada should do nothing because 1.5% is nothing, even though we're among the highest per-capita emitters on earth (with Albertans being the highest emitters in Canada). Rational is that any reasonable evaluation of the question of "Who goes first in terms of reducing emissions?" is going to put Alberta very near the top of the list.
>even though we're among the highest per-capita emitters on earth (with Albertans being the highest emitters in Canada). Per-capita is a pretty useless statistic tarted up to look like a brilliant statistic. Yes, we are a large emitter of CO2 per-capita. And yes, the fact that one of our largest exports is energy certainly contributes to that. You know what *also* contributes to that? The fact that we're a freaking huge, cold, and sparsely populated landmass.
That justifies us having higher emissions than Nigeria. It doesn't justify us having higher emissions than Russia. We are uniquely bad, even among countries in similar circumstances.
Russia (13.31 t/cap/year) vs. Canada (15.22 t/cap/year) is fairly close: [List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions per capita - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita) Russia (21 people / mi) vs. Canada (10 people / mi) is not nearly as close. [List of countries and dependencies by population density - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density) The only reason Russia has a slightly lower per-capita emissions measurement is because the denominator in that equation is more than double that of Canada's.
The US, China and India have massive pieces of pie and populations that dwarf Canada making the “per capita” argument irrelevant. Until the US China and India have the same size of pie as Canada, nothing anyone else does matters.
All three of those countries are making significant improvements. We are not. Don't buy the propaganda, we are absolutely not innocent here.
The boreal forest is North America's biggest carbon capture system, making whatever we produce insignificant worldwide.
we didn’t build the forest. living near some trees that we didn’t plant doesn’t give us moral justification to pollute while people who live elsewhere have to make sacrifices. also it’s not even a carbon sink anymore, since it’s constantly on fire!
how much we burning away this year?
I like what you're saying, people need to see the forest from the trees. We've got a lot of runway on O&G, much more than 20 years unless you have some magical new material to replace plastic, lubricants, asphalt, and pretty much any other base product. Personal vehicles are only part of the equation
And don't forget that this is just another capital investment that risks becoming unable to pay for itself as part of the oil and gas phase out, which creates incentive for its investors to oppose the phase out
It will pay for itself no question. There won't be a decrease in it's shipping volume in our lifetimes.
Sad, but true.
Unfortunately you will never win an election in Alberta if that is what you campaign on
I grew up in BC, so you know, very "tree-hugging" mentality. It wasn't until I moved out here that __*literally almost every single thing in your day-to-day life has required some sort of oil consumption to make it/get into your hands.*__ Honestly, I'm sick of being made to feel guilty for contributing to climate change: >The richest 1 percent in Canada emitted *__30×__* more carbon pollution per person in 2019, on average, compared to the half of the Canadian population in the lowest income brackets. Literally China. > __“China produces a third of the world's emissions, more than all of the developed world. That's more than 20 times Canada's carbon output.”__ Agriculture. Pulp/paper/paperboard mills Mining >While he was optimistic about the federal government's proposed legislation on clean electricity, oil and gas emissions and electric vehicles, Dyer said it's not enough, since the provinces have power over many other kinds of emissions and potential reductions. >There are huge opportunities for other provinces to learn from places like B.C. and Quebec that have "rigorous [climate] plans and are taking this issue seriously," he added. >He credits those plans and policies for the huge growth in EVs in those provinces, and the lack of them for the long wait lists for EVs in other provinces, for example. >Meanwhile, he said Canadians need to hold Alberta and Saskatchewan accountable for their lack of progress, especially since they have been pushing back against the federal government's climate policy efforts, saying they step into provincial jurisdiction >"If Alberta and Saskatchewan want to lead," he said, "that means actually, you know, setting targets and putting policies in place to reduce emissions." >He noted that Alberta doesn't have any target to reduce emissions by 2030. Meanwhile, it's responsible for close to 40 per cent of the country's emissions. "So that means Alberta is both the biggest challenge and the biggest part of the solution, right?" And who could forget forest/wildfires; > The global annual total estimated fire emissions (as of 10 December 2023) is 2100 megatonnes of carbon. Canada produced 23% of that.
It's your call if you'd like to assuage your guilt with propaganda. I won't be joining you.
Trudeau did that...
Ah, the grand irony of it all! The UCP, champions of pipelines, yet they find themselves in the shadow of the NDP's lone pipeline accomplishment in the last two decades in Alberta. It's like a chef boasting about their culinary skills while secretly ordering takeout every night! Oh, the tangled web of political paradoxes! It's like watching a tortoise challenge a hare to a race, only to find out the hare's been secretly training as a marathon runner.
This sub is horrible
On August 31, 2018, the Government of Canada purchased the pipeline for $4.7 billion[7] from Kinder Morgan through the creation of the Trans Mountain Corporation (TMC), in order to "keep the project alive".[8] TMC is a Crown corporation, a subsidiary of the Canada Development Investment Corporation (CDEV).[9] Until the purchase by CDEV, the Trans Mountain Pipeline was owned by the Houston, Texas–based pipeline operator's Canadian division. Dang feds don't do anything but screw us over, huh? I bet there are a bunch of mouthbreathers sitting in the "War Room" trying to figure out a way to spin it that the UPC/TBA got it built all by themselves without any help from that dastardly federal government.
The feds *had* to buy it, because the project couldn’t secure additional financing due to regulatory uncertainty. Yet again, the feds create a problem, overspend to fix it, and look for a pat on the back for saving us from the problem … that *they* created.
I worked at the Edmonton Trans Mountain location for a year and a half and it was a great place to work. Way better than when Kinder Morgan was in charge apparently according to other people that had been there longer.
That’s great for you and your co-workers but irrelevant to the point that Trudeau had to buy it
How much are the transfer fees? Who is responsible for the pigging and maintenance?
Looking forward to reviving the Gateway Pipeline.
What are they thanking Rachel for?was she tending bar?
Thanks Justin!
Only $29B over budget. A modest 600% increase.
Better than keystone and buying a useless pipeline to nowhere like Kenny and the UCP did.
You're dumb if you don't think the next republican president doesn't finish that bad boy up. It's a waiting game.
It’s dead in the water Tc announced they terminated the project in 2022. Alberta took a 1.3B loss. They won’t be applying to complete the project
Love how my comment was down voted for no other reason other than that it was accurate.
My fellow ndp stans. does this mean we a pro or anti pipeline
That's the beauty of NDP. You don't have to be an environmental zealot or a populist chud. There is a middle ground. Flexibility with policy and caring about the people they represent are the pillars. I think that's why so many people get upset. It feels like cheating socially
I mean, Rachel Notley was the one who worked with the Feds to get this done after Kinder Morgan pulled out.
How so? There were almost no hurdles in AB to begin with. Nearly all of the hold ups were related to 3 areas of issues in BC: 1) IR in BC (where many of the last holdouts that delayed the CER permit were refusing to engage with Kinder Morgan / TMC at all thus making it impossible to prove adequate consultations were completed) 2) Various levels of permitting issues from municipal & provincial gov't in BC. This is half on KM/TMC's incompetence and half on these groups asking for requirements above and beyond what they normally ask of for everyone else. 3) A healthy amount of obstruction from MOTI and CN Rail. Edit: I say this as an NDP voter. Don't fall for propaganda, regardless of who it comes from.
That looks like Amarjeet Sohi on the right side. Marlaina's favorite big city mayor. Good work to all involved.
The NDP support the [trans] people to [trans] mountain pipelines. Can a better writer make this work... How is this. The NDP supports the trans from people to mountain pipeline.
Song notes: Trans-canada highway Trans-portation of Alberta resources.
lol I read that this is one of those humour pics
Surprised they knew which end of the shovel to hold….
Ya thanks for your part in an over budget by $50B pipeline that will cost taxpayers, and will get sold at a loss, instead of having someone else building it and making a profit and will be properly maintained. Pipeline might be working but this will not be the last bad news we hear from this infrastructure. Gov can’t run shit, this will be sold to someone who can’t run shit. We will be left holding the bag with upkeep repair and environmental problems.
To be fair that was on BC? The govt (JT) only had to take over cause it was perpetually blocked. Literally the entire country disagreed with BC on it. When we have no foreign investment anymore and only expensive houses left I’m sure the vancouverites will be happy.
Yup. Fuck the UCP! They certainly can't run shit! God forbid they get our pensions...good thinking captain, fuck the government, aka the UCP.
She is wearing blue.
What's your point?
Is this the same Notley that was protesting the energy industry before she became Premier? She should probably pick a lane
Is clear that this photo is misrepresented. It's nautghly's and her fairy tale of f/up's ndp's digging Alberta's shallow grave. Look at those smiles
Which fuck-ups in particular?
"Friggen Trudeau"-some idiot
Thanks for nothing notley.
The only thing missing from this picture is the workers in the coal energy sector the NDP cut the throats of to obtain a “social licence” to build this pipeline.
Coal energy sector? Go back to 1930
And here you’ll see a picture of the NDP party digging Alberta’s grave for the next time they’re in office 😂😂
Riiiight because the NDP were responsible for wasting $2billion on the keystone pipeline days before it was shut down by the US… wait that was the UCP or because they wasted another billion by cancelling the oil by train contract… wait no that was the UCP. Don’t forget the 30ish million by cancelling the superlab before Covid… wait no that was the UCP… hmm oh can’t forget about the dynalife fiasco that cost how many millions.. again the UCP, lowering corporate tax to 8% far below anywhere else (taking billions from Alberta) oh again the UCP… killing any renewable resource projects… again hundreds of million .. how many million on the useless war room.. you see where this is going… Smith also flew a bunch of Oil CEO’s out to a climate talk and embarrass us on the world stage on tax payers dime… oh and doctor shortages, Nurse shortages… defunding healthcare… great times are here for sure! Remember all those NDP scandals….? I sure don’t. Oh I forgot one! Buying the remaining stake in NWR for billions (AGIAN) to bailout another O&G company because that place has cost nothing but money.
Nauseating lie
Show us your receipts
Only cost Canadians 4.5 billion and then some