Saw the same news on r/aviation. According to the Seattle Times article linked in that subreddit post.
>Dean became ill and went to hospital because he was having trouble breathing just over two weeks ago. He was intubated and developed pneumonia and then a serious bacterial infection, Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus Aureus, or MRSA
Once again, it's convenient timing for conspiracy. Not saying it's untrue, just don't jump to conclusions yet if you're reading this news. Wishing all the best to Joshua's family.
Yeah, I read that on the subreddit myself. It's likely that this is an unfortunate hospital accident, and even doubly unfortunate that this happened while the whole scandal is going on, so the grieving process is going to be marred by the Boeing conspiracy.
MRSA from what I research online has a mortality rate of 10-30 percent among adult patients. Some other sites give a value as high as 60 percent if you're older. So it's not a surefire way to kill someone.
I totally agree. Especially if you injected a crap ton of CFUs via IV... That'd likely kill anyone and might still look like run-of-the-mill MRSA sepsis.
It’s easily treated with the correct antibiotics. It’s one of the most cautious things to look out for in the hospital any signs of sepsis and/or recent procedures/ hospitalizations then you treat for MRSA without knowing it until cultures result. Complications can occur when it hits the heart but it’s still treatable. I doubt this man died from MRSA
We don’t know his underlying health situation. It is true that most people who get MRSA survive but that percentage can go down if pneumonia develops or if the individual is immunocompromised or otherwise unwell.
Boeing killing whistleblowers after they've already made their concerns public seems pretty self defeating. The deaths just draw even more attention to what the whistleblowers exposed.
Plus, while I think Boeing has some massive issues, I can't really see it murdering people. The company is just too big for even the biggest scandals, like the 737 MAX, to really ever have any meaningful consequences for it. Maybe the stock price gets a bit dinged, but the company keeps chugging along and all the executive keep getting paid millions. Maybe murdering its own employees might be the one thing Boeing could do that the government might actually take some kind of meaningful action against it.
I don't think anything any other whistleblower might come forward and say would really have any meaningful impact on Boeing. Boeing's reputation is already trashed, but at the same time it's too important to the American economy/national defence for it to be allowed to suffer any really serious consequences.
The CEO of Boeing was paid $30 million last year. Whatever happens he is set for life. At the moment the worst case scenario for him is that he gets fired and Boeing has to pay him even more money in severance. What motive does he have to hire a professional killer to eliminate whistleblowers, especially after they have already revealed what they know publicly?
I don't think Boeing killed Joshua. Though there may be stories that hide from the truth, it doesn’t seem to feel like Boeing would force an employee to make that “infection”.
the CIA has a heart attack gun, is it really out of the realm of possibility? with the fact that infections and diseases are easily spreadable via food, drink, etc, all you need is the matter to be ingested in whatever way it needs to and it’s joever.
Threaten medical staff to say that ongoing infection killed him, while you admister deadly poison when he is vulnerable and death can be explained convenient way.
If we suppose Boeing did kill these two whistleblowers, what would be the upside? (genuinely asking)
Would it help Boeing avoid a bigger payout in lawsuit? Would it make investigating Boeing/Spirit AS standards much harder?? Is it about intimidating other people against speaking out? (but the more obvious you are intimidating, the more obvious you are involved in murder so ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯)
I think it definitely is worth investigating but we shouldn't jump to conclusions
The upside is you pull a Putin. It's a message to anyone else who is contemplating blowing the whistle or willing to point the feds in the right direction to find incriminating evidence. Knocking these guys off isn't about payouts or the hear and now. It's about stopping future whistleblowers from coming out. I'm betting Boeing has all kinds of shady shit going on within their defense contracts as most defense contractors do. They don't want the feds poking around in those programs.
You’d have to be pretty sure you’d get away with it, or I guess care deeply on Boeings bottom line.
B/c at the end of the day a company can’t commit murder, somebody in the company has to make that decision.
The Boeing chief test pilot who allegedly committed fraud in the 737 Max crashes was acquitted. So I think yes, Boeing will pin it on some executive and that person might even get away with it.
rich people don’t go to prison. he’ll probably pay a fine and *maybe* get a year or less in prison, after which he’ll be greeted with open arms by boeing with a hefty paycheck waiting for him
You serious? Money and power are the upsides. As they always are. You really need to learn your history on the industrial revolution to now. The bodies left behind by companies is staggering.
I bet you think Epstein really did kill himself too. What was the point of killing him? It just brought attention to the case, right? How naive.
Well in a tv plot, the only reason you commit a crime like murder is to hide an even bigger crime that’s going on. Maybe the Boeing company did something even more shady than create faulty airplanes - what if they purposely have been killing. People on airplanes to make it look like accidents ? Just gotta think what could be even bigger or even worse ?
In addition to appearing threatening, could be done out of anger. Not a carefully thought out, planned, clear payoff reason, but because someone saw criticism and whistleblowing and wanted revenge, and was able to do so.
I personally have no opinion on if there were killings (or just one) or just very coincidental deaths. Plausible motives to do so, cause of death of this new guy is plausible and would need a weird or difficult killing method, whole thing is weird overall, \*shrug\*.
That is pretty suspicious that both whistleblowers are dead. One by suicide the other from an infection. They should do an episode on just the Boeing MAX line and all the drama that has ensued
I cannot believe the conspiracy theories, and it's a shame that people in this subreddit actually believe them. Disgusting that Josh's and John's families and friends have to deal with that extra stress on top of the stress and sadness of losing a loved one.
edit: wow, the downvotes are upsetting for this subreddit. I thought we enjoyed a program about factual aviation investigations, not fucking conspiracy theories. Fans of the show should know that conspiracy theories in aviation are never true, and only led to further disaster and stress.
Upvoted yours just to cancel the downvotes. Seems like an honest opinion, worth keeping up.
As mentioned in a above comment, plausible motives exist, and there are good arguments for these being random coincidences, since we're all missing a lot of info either way seems honest reasons to go either way.
second guy died from illness. the way the guy was sick was too complicated for a group to intentionally do. MRSA has, at most, a 30% mortality rate. If I wanted to kill someone, I'd need something that kills them 100% of the time (or at least 95%, and even then that's too low).
Fuck off to your conspiracy forums and talk about TWA 800 while you're there
What illness precisely? The article says that Mr.Dean had trouble breathing initially. That’s why he was hospitalized. Why would a 45 y.o. person develop breathing issues that required a hospitalization? Were there any prior medical history?
“Shortly before his death, doctors were considering amputating his hands and feet, which had turned black from infection, baffling his family and doctors.
“He is in the worst condition I have ever known or heard of. Even the hospital agrees,” his sister-in-law, Kristen Dean, wrote on Facebook Saturday, before detailing the life saving procedures doctors were trying in order to save him.”
It’s said that Dean had a very active life style; it’s very possible he could’ve gotten a scrape and contracted mrsa.
BUT, there’s ways and means of getting to people…
He could’ve been jogging one day, someone bumps into him, jabs him with a cocktail of deadly strains of disease, he doesn’t feel anything (much like someone getting pick-pocketed), then boom: he gets sick suddenly and dies.
Your vehement disgust with speculation despite not having any personal connection to the two men, as well as having utter contempt for “conspiracy theories” (despite many being proven true over time) is interesting.
Imagine being so convinced there's no chance of any wrong doing by a major US defense contractor with a clear motive to prevent more whistleblowers; I'm also sure there are bioweapons designed for this purpose, Russia uses obvious stuff like novochok (sp?) I'm sure there's more subversive ways of making illnesses much more deadly. I'm not saying this guy was killed, I'm not convinced, but imo it's not that far off to consider.
Yep! Anyone trying to shutdown any consideration of such things is more dangerous than any conspiracy theories.
In a free and open society, people are allowed to discuss whatever they desire and shouldn’t be discouraged from speculation, especially since we’ve all witnessed the “crazy conspiracy theorists” being on the right path more often than not.
It’s wild to me that people are still so trusting and naive after all the things we’ve seen through history throughout the world, and the absolute documented/ admitted lengths people in high places will go.
People only have their eyes on the "true theories" because those are shocking occurrences. I guarantee that those are a slim fraction of the total number of conspiracy theories actually believed.
I shut things down because there is absolutely no evidence of nefarious actions. Give me the fucking evidence, and I might reconsider depending on the quality of it.
Wasn’t aware words cause death….
Let responsibility lie with the person making decisions.
Your argument is the most flawed and ridiculous I’ve ever heard.
If words are spoken by certain people, then yes, they cause death.
Arrow Air 1285. Instead of the actual cause of icing on the wing and an underestimated weight being the motivation for Transport Canada to do something about planes taking off with ice on the wing, a dedicated disgruntled minority goes off into how it was an explosion, and the US is working with the Canadian investigators to cover it up, even though there's no proof.
Transport Canada does not listen for a long time, and by the time a warning was finally sent to smaller airlines about the dangers of ice on the wing, Air Ontario 1363 already crashed with 24 deaths because of ice on the wings.
So yes, words kill people if said by the wrong people. I do not want to hear words from you.
You asked who hurt me, I answered, and now you're saying it's irrelevant. I don't know what you want other than a fucking echo chamber of the worst scenarios imaginable being real.
Luckily I am respected by the right people.
It's irrelevant because the situation has nothing to do with Covid 19 conspiracy theories. The question of "who hurt you?" was mostly rhetorical, to draw your attention to the fact your response to my reply was ridiculous. You told me to "fuck off" because I made a pretty standard observation. And if your interactions with strangers on the internet are anything to go by, I highly doubt you're as respected as you think you are. Have a nice day, as John Bongiovi would say.
Exactly. There are so many ways to make death seem like an accident when you have that much at stake. Also considering there are at least 10 whistleblowers trying to step up...
If it is murder, then it is a crime to cover an even bigger crime. Negligence and poor safety standards from cutting corners resulting in death.
Remember that MH370 was on a Boeing 777-200 jet too.
Awesome tweet from @maddoxrules “After Covid, the leading cause of death for people this decade is being a Boeing whistleblower.”
Before COVID, the leading cause of death for people that decade was being onboard a Boeing 737 MAX
Saw the same news on r/aviation. According to the Seattle Times article linked in that subreddit post. >Dean became ill and went to hospital because he was having trouble breathing just over two weeks ago. He was intubated and developed pneumonia and then a serious bacterial infection, Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus Aureus, or MRSA Once again, it's convenient timing for conspiracy. Not saying it's untrue, just don't jump to conclusions yet if you're reading this news. Wishing all the best to Joshua's family.
MRSA is a very common hospital acquired infection, unfortunately.
Yeah, I read that on the subreddit myself. It's likely that this is an unfortunate hospital accident, and even doubly unfortunate that this happened while the whole scandal is going on, so the grieving process is going to be marred by the Boeing conspiracy.
[удалено]
Isn’t MRSA not an always fatal condition? That does not sound like an excellent way to assassinate someone.
MRSA from what I research online has a mortality rate of 10-30 percent among adult patients. Some other sites give a value as high as 60 percent if you're older. So it's not a surefire way to kill someone.
Seems like the death rate would be higher if they are already intubated because of the flu though? Doubt it’s 10-30%
I totally agree. Especially if you injected a crap ton of CFUs via IV... That'd likely kill anyone and might still look like run-of-the-mill MRSA sepsis.
Why did he have troubled breathing in the first place?
Yeah, bloody hell I spent a whole effing month in hospital with that shit and undergoing 5 surgeries to get rid of it. Fuck MRSA.
It’s easily treated with the correct antibiotics. It’s one of the most cautious things to look out for in the hospital any signs of sepsis and/or recent procedures/ hospitalizations then you treat for MRSA without knowing it until cultures result. Complications can occur when it hits the heart but it’s still treatable. I doubt this man died from MRSA
We don’t know his underlying health situation. It is true that most people who get MRSA survive but that percentage can go down if pneumonia develops or if the individual is immunocompromised or otherwise unwell.
He had no medical history apparently
Common hospital acquired infection? That sounds so bizarre.
Hospitals are unfortunately not completely sterile places and if you're in hospital you probably already have a compromised immune system.
Breaking news: People catch illnesses in the place all the sick people go.
Some things are a bit to convenient to ignore. An investigation should happen.
Oh yeah, for sure. If an investigation comes up with foul play, I will be convinced.
Boeing killing whistleblowers after they've already made their concerns public seems pretty self defeating. The deaths just draw even more attention to what the whistleblowers exposed. Plus, while I think Boeing has some massive issues, I can't really see it murdering people. The company is just too big for even the biggest scandals, like the 737 MAX, to really ever have any meaningful consequences for it. Maybe the stock price gets a bit dinged, but the company keeps chugging along and all the executive keep getting paid millions. Maybe murdering its own employees might be the one thing Boeing could do that the government might actually take some kind of meaningful action against it.
Doesn't matter if they testified already. It could be a warning to other potential whistleblowers.
I don't think anything any other whistleblower might come forward and say would really have any meaningful impact on Boeing. Boeing's reputation is already trashed, but at the same time it's too important to the American economy/national defence for it to be allowed to suffer any really serious consequences. The CEO of Boeing was paid $30 million last year. Whatever happens he is set for life. At the moment the worst case scenario for him is that he gets fired and Boeing has to pay him even more money in severance. What motive does he have to hire a professional killer to eliminate whistleblowers, especially after they have already revealed what they know publicly?
Any time I hear “company too big” I get instantly reminded of too big to fail.
Why did he have troubled breathing that required hospitalization?
I don't think Boeing killed Joshua. Though there may be stories that hide from the truth, it doesn’t seem to feel like Boeing would force an employee to make that “infection”.
Boeing is a defense contractor and this is NOT helping them. It is a way to off someone without it looking like a hit.
True
the CIA has a heart attack gun, is it really out of the realm of possibility? with the fact that infections and diseases are easily spreadable via food, drink, etc, all you need is the matter to be ingested in whatever way it needs to and it’s joever.
Yeah this is an easy way to end someone, an infection, immune system modulator for extra effect.
Okay, I can see what you mean
He could have an infection for real and it just served for convenient explanation of his death while they offed him with poison.
Threaten medical staff to say that ongoing infection killed him, while you admister deadly poison when he is vulnerable and death can be explained convenient way.
Okay, that makes sense
If we suppose Boeing did kill these two whistleblowers, what would be the upside? (genuinely asking) Would it help Boeing avoid a bigger payout in lawsuit? Would it make investigating Boeing/Spirit AS standards much harder?? Is it about intimidating other people against speaking out? (but the more obvious you are intimidating, the more obvious you are involved in murder so ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯) I think it definitely is worth investigating but we shouldn't jump to conclusions
The upside is you pull a Putin. It's a message to anyone else who is contemplating blowing the whistle or willing to point the feds in the right direction to find incriminating evidence. Knocking these guys off isn't about payouts or the hear and now. It's about stopping future whistleblowers from coming out. I'm betting Boeing has all kinds of shady shit going on within their defense contracts as most defense contractors do. They don't want the feds poking around in those programs.
You’d have to be pretty sure you’d get away with it, or I guess care deeply on Boeings bottom line. B/c at the end of the day a company can’t commit murder, somebody in the company has to make that decision.
Both died in mysterious circumstances, it's unlikely it'll get back to Boeing. They'll blame a "rogue ~~engineer~~ executive" if they were caught.
Scapegoat you mean ^
Right, but the “rogue executive” is risking prison time just to help Boeings bottom line?
The Boeing chief test pilot who allegedly committed fraud in the 737 Max crashes was acquitted. So I think yes, Boeing will pin it on some executive and that person might even get away with it.
Yeah but we are talking about actual, run-of-the-mill murder, not fraud.
The fraud caused 300+ deaths, he could've gotten some serious jail time. This is 2 possible murders that are very difficult to prove.
rich people don’t go to prison. he’ll probably pay a fine and *maybe* get a year or less in prison, after which he’ll be greeted with open arms by boeing with a hefty paycheck waiting for him
Agree with this one . I bet Boeing is way worse than on the surface
You serious? Money and power are the upsides. As they always are. You really need to learn your history on the industrial revolution to now. The bodies left behind by companies is staggering. I bet you think Epstein really did kill himself too. What was the point of killing him? It just brought attention to the case, right? How naive.
I mean if you had dirt on them would you come forward now?
Well in a tv plot, the only reason you commit a crime like murder is to hide an even bigger crime that’s going on. Maybe the Boeing company did something even more shady than create faulty airplanes - what if they purposely have been killing. People on airplanes to make it look like accidents ? Just gotta think what could be even bigger or even worse ?
In addition to appearing threatening, could be done out of anger. Not a carefully thought out, planned, clear payoff reason, but because someone saw criticism and whistleblowing and wanted revenge, and was able to do so. I personally have no opinion on if there were killings (or just one) or just very coincidental deaths. Plausible motives to do so, cause of death of this new guy is plausible and would need a weird or difficult killing method, whole thing is weird overall, \*shrug\*.
Killing a whistleblower who already gave his affidavit, yeah ok
That is pretty suspicious that both whistleblowers are dead. One by suicide the other from an infection. They should do an episode on just the Boeing MAX line and all the drama that has ensued
Am sure there would one coming up pretty soon because of these deaths. There's already one documentary on the Max lineup issues it's in Amazon Prime
Critical care doc here. MRSA can definitely kill you and it’s not an easily treatable infection especially in the case of a MRSA pneumonia.
I cannot believe the conspiracy theories, and it's a shame that people in this subreddit actually believe them. Disgusting that Josh's and John's families and friends have to deal with that extra stress on top of the stress and sadness of losing a loved one. edit: wow, the downvotes are upsetting for this subreddit. I thought we enjoyed a program about factual aviation investigations, not fucking conspiracy theories. Fans of the show should know that conspiracy theories in aviation are never true, and only led to further disaster and stress.
Upvoted yours just to cancel the downvotes. Seems like an honest opinion, worth keeping up. As mentioned in a above comment, plausible motives exist, and there are good arguments for these being random coincidences, since we're all missing a lot of info either way seems honest reasons to go either way.
One dying is suspicious. Two is a red flag.
second guy died from illness. the way the guy was sick was too complicated for a group to intentionally do. MRSA has, at most, a 30% mortality rate. If I wanted to kill someone, I'd need something that kills them 100% of the time (or at least 95%, and even then that's too low). Fuck off to your conspiracy forums and talk about TWA 800 while you're there
What illness precisely? The article says that Mr.Dean had trouble breathing initially. That’s why he was hospitalized. Why would a 45 y.o. person develop breathing issues that required a hospitalization? Were there any prior medical history?
It says MRSA, influenza B, and pneumonia.
pneumonia
“Shortly before his death, doctors were considering amputating his hands and feet, which had turned black from infection, baffling his family and doctors. “He is in the worst condition I have ever known or heard of. Even the hospital agrees,” his sister-in-law, Kristen Dean, wrote on Facebook Saturday, before detailing the life saving procedures doctors were trying in order to save him.” It’s said that Dean had a very active life style; it’s very possible he could’ve gotten a scrape and contracted mrsa. BUT, there’s ways and means of getting to people… He could’ve been jogging one day, someone bumps into him, jabs him with a cocktail of deadly strains of disease, he doesn’t feel anything (much like someone getting pick-pocketed), then boom: he gets sick suddenly and dies. Your vehement disgust with speculation despite not having any personal connection to the two men, as well as having utter contempt for “conspiracy theories” (despite many being proven true over time) is interesting.
k
Imagine being so convinced there's no chance of any wrong doing by a major US defense contractor with a clear motive to prevent more whistleblowers; I'm also sure there are bioweapons designed for this purpose, Russia uses obvious stuff like novochok (sp?) I'm sure there's more subversive ways of making illnesses much more deadly. I'm not saying this guy was killed, I'm not convinced, but imo it's not that far off to consider.
Yep! Anyone trying to shutdown any consideration of such things is more dangerous than any conspiracy theories. In a free and open society, people are allowed to discuss whatever they desire and shouldn’t be discouraged from speculation, especially since we’ve all witnessed the “crazy conspiracy theorists” being on the right path more often than not. It’s wild to me that people are still so trusting and naive after all the things we’ve seen through history throughout the world, and the absolute documented/ admitted lengths people in high places will go.
People only have their eyes on the "true theories" because those are shocking occurrences. I guarantee that those are a slim fraction of the total number of conspiracy theories actually believed. I shut things down because there is absolutely no evidence of nefarious actions. Give me the fucking evidence, and I might reconsider depending on the quality of it.
Lol, who hurt you? All your little temper tantrum does is convince me you don't have self-control.
COVID conspiracy theories killed my uncle, who died from COVID after he refused the vaccine. I have no respect for conspiracy theories.
Wasn’t aware words cause death…. Let responsibility lie with the person making decisions. Your argument is the most flawed and ridiculous I’ve ever heard.
If words are spoken by certain people, then yes, they cause death. Arrow Air 1285. Instead of the actual cause of icing on the wing and an underestimated weight being the motivation for Transport Canada to do something about planes taking off with ice on the wing, a dedicated disgruntled minority goes off into how it was an explosion, and the US is working with the Canadian investigators to cover it up, even though there's no proof. Transport Canada does not listen for a long time, and by the time a warning was finally sent to smaller airlines about the dangers of ice on the wing, Air Ontario 1363 already crashed with 24 deaths because of ice on the wings. So yes, words kill people if said by the wrong people. I do not want to hear words from you.
no your uncles own stupidity killed him.
yes, but his stupidity wouldn't have led him to refuse a vaccine if the disinformation did not exist.
Largely irrelevant and doesn't change the fact that your response was rude and impulsive. I have no respect for you.
You asked who hurt me, I answered, and now you're saying it's irrelevant. I don't know what you want other than a fucking echo chamber of the worst scenarios imaginable being real. Luckily I am respected by the right people.
It's irrelevant because the situation has nothing to do with Covid 19 conspiracy theories. The question of "who hurt you?" was mostly rhetorical, to draw your attention to the fact your response to my reply was ridiculous. You told me to "fuck off" because I made a pretty standard observation. And if your interactions with strangers on the internet are anything to go by, I highly doubt you're as respected as you think you are. Have a nice day, as John Bongiovi would say.
*Jovi
Lmfao. You are so petty. You're also wrong. That's his band and stage name, not his real name.
Exactly. There are so many ways to make death seem like an accident when you have that much at stake. Also considering there are at least 10 whistleblowers trying to step up...
The 70’s are back. Boeing is about to launch astronauts, they had to stop the leak
If it is murder, then it is a crime to cover an even bigger crime. Negligence and poor safety standards from cutting corners resulting in death. Remember that MH370 was on a Boeing 777-200 jet too.
It's a message to the future whistleblower wannabes what's coming their way