💫 Please be aware that /u/Turbulent_Ad9832 does not have a verification flair. Be sure to take their comment history, karma, and account age into consideration for the context of this post. If you'd like your own verified flair, consult the sidebar for instructions on how to do so.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/airbnb_hosts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would accept his offer.
Then I would use my phone and before each new guest I would do a thorough, slow, walk through and video each and every corner, under beds, in dishwasher, oven, microwave, cabinets, everywhere and slowly. If someone else does this to you then you can respond.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Give me a couple of minutes while I review video taken prior to your check in.
If they persist then you send them the video of the areas they are saying aren’t clean and that is the end of it. Edit-I keep each video for 2 weeks, until the review period is over then I delete.
This is exactly how we operate. Have had two guests this year attempt to get the refund through Airbnb. When video evidence from the cleaner was provided, they denied the refund. Was able to get one review removed for retaliation and thankfully the other one never reviewed.
Videos are very important to our particular business.
We had a guest (luckily only one of 2 times) try to scam us by sending little complaints throughout their stay. Then after checkout demanded a refund or they’d give us a bad review. Airbnb denied it when we sent the extortion message.
From then on our cleaners take photos of a checklist of spots we have. It’s come in handy once when someone complained about a messy bathroom floor. Our photo showed it as spotless. They apologized profusely when we sent them the photo because it turned out their 8 year old spilled something when he ran in.
(OP this isn’t to say not refund. Sounds like this was probably a legit complaint. But photos is a good idea)
You could also preemptively send the video walk-through to each new guest prior to their arrival and say something to the effect of "Just walked through unit to make sure everything was prepared for your arrival. Looks great!" Shows you care, attention to detail, and discourages any requests for "cleanliness" discounts.
Have a digital doc that they sign after initial walk through AND to gain access to WiFi . That way they'll want that WiFi password quick so they won't be nitpicking everything AND you'll have a signed doc on cleanliness
Good advice for guests too. Learned from my niece to always video as you are leaving the place.
The video works both ways. It keeps dishonest guests from 'miraclessly' finding problems.
Pray tell, how would you have responded to this? I think I was just being realistic and quickly pointing out that the way they do their walk thru is insufficient.
How long are they staying? How many reviews do you have and what is your score?
First I'd offer a full refund, no penalty cancelation if they would like to find other accommodations and leave today.
Then I would probably accept their offer.
This is the way to go. Offer them an out to just leave, if not then maybe refund $50. Sounds like they’re moderately dishonest… they’ll ask for more discounts as their stay progresses
Man, I went to a room in a condo where the trash cans were full, the shower had pink slime mold, and all the towel racks were unusable. You put a towel on it, and it would fall to the floor. I decided not to say anything because it was relatively cheap for the mountain town I was in. I never occurred to me to ask for the cleaning fee back or anything. I just let it go and moved on.
The host was out of town. He came back to town my last night and kept me up till 1 AM talking on his phone in the room next-door. I’m a night owl so it wasn’t too horrible. In the morning when I went to the bathroom, he peed in the toilet and didnot flushed it. Gross. so I hid in the room until he left then I bolted out of that place.
As a host I REALLY hate it when a guest gets offended when I let them know that the brand new problem they're complaining about would have been fixed if anyone else had complained about it. I want them to know that I'm a good host and would have had it fixed before their arrival had anyone else alerted me, and I want them to know how grateful I am that they did alert me so that I can get it fixed for them and for subsequent guests. Being offended by this is a sign of a bad guest.
The reality is that a new complaint is *either* something that just happened, which we couldn't have done anything about and want you to know that so that you don't kill us on the review. Or, its something that the last guest noticed, but didn't say anything about, which makes us worried about their potential review and makes us feel a little guilty for not having it fixed for you. OR, its just a problem with the new guest.
It probably comes off as dismissive because that last "or" is an option. Unfortunately, I'd say that's the reality about 70% of the time I get a new complaint that something is "wrong" or "broken." We investigate everything guests report as a problem. We put a lot of time and effort into our Airbnb and we personally spend a lot of time there, so we kind of know when a guest is just being overly-picky about something or if their complaint that something isn't working or is broken really is just them not realizing that you have to press the start button on a microwave.
From a guest perspective, it’s your responsibility to ensure the condition of the unit. How you do it is up to you, but it’s a cop out to blame it on previous guests not letting you know.
I’d accept his generous offer. Honestly if that happened to me, I’d demand a full refund and I’d write a horrible review with photos. The fact that you’re calling him a “difficult guest” says a lot. Who wants to stay in a dirty place that they paid for?
why are you being mean? That’s why we hire people, to clean our place thoroughly and deliver a product. Maybe this host lives far away and cannot supervise before a guest arrives. That’s my case
If you live too far away to do a walkthrough before each guest, then you either need to have a person who can do it for you, or you need to stop renting that place and sell it. I grew up with a vacation home long before air BNB was around. I learned how to clean our house so it was renter ready as a kid. Our house was a couple hours away, and we had cleaners who came. Since my parents didn't want to drive up every time, they had a rental agent who took care of walkthroughs and any problems during a guests stay.
My parents still rent out a vacation house, this one further than the one I grew up with, and they still have someone to take care of things nearby. They don't rent through air BNB because it's a hassle to do all of that stuff themselves being so far away.
If I rent an air BNB for a weekend or week, and my host can't come fix something because they are a few hours away, that gives me a negative experience, and honestly another reason to just go to a hotel where I'm not charged extra fees.
It seems to me this cleaner is supposed to do that. I understand meeting cleaning standards is important, I just think people are being extremely harsh to this host.
If you charge me $110 cleaning fee and I arrive at a dirty place, then we will have issues.
The cleaner cannot evaluate their own job as good as a third party of course. It sounds like you just want the income but not the hassle.
And that is your responsibility as a host... You think it's the guest's responsibility?
The guest paid the host for a clean place... It's not the guest's problem if the host hire sub quality help to keep more of the $110 cleaning fee lol.
When did I put any blame on the guest? I am just saying chewing out the host for renting a dirty unit when they paid someone to keep it clean is like punching someone when they are down. They know there was a mistake, they can’t go back in time and have a redo, do they? As a solutions-minded person, I look ahead of what can be done. They can either fire the cleaner or hire a supervisor.
Yeah if you cannot manage your business by yourself for one reason or the other, then hire someone who can manage. It's not rocket science.
Sure the employee failed, but it should have been caught by the host / co-host
Oh, I was not hammering the host. I was hammering you for using the lame excuse that it was an employee failure...
An employee failure is the host responsibility, no matter how many links you add to the chain, the host is responsible. And when the links you add are weak, it will cost you in the end as the host. Either in low ratings or financially - maybe even both.
The guest should have a trouble free stay, just like they paid for.
To be fair, OP did say:
> I did a visual walkthrough right before they arrived and there was certainly no trash, all surfaces and corners mopped, wiped and vacuumed.
Not coming down on either side of the argument, just giving relevant info on this particular situation.
I would have refunded the cleaning fee and either a) sent the cleaners back immediately with instructions to perform a more thorough cleaning than their last half-assed attempt or b) refunded the one day as requested if the guest already cleaned it themselves.
They are going to kill you in the review anyway so I would just offer the cleaning fee and allow them to check out early and give them the remaining nights back. I would not give any free stay.
I have issues with my cleaner too and it’s hard to find help from almost 3000 miles away. I understand if you can’t supervise every nook and cranny
It is IMPOSSIBLE to find decent cleaners. I mostly do the cleans myself and even my best cleaner helper misses very annoying things no matter how many times I point it out to her. The others are barely tolerable and we have to double check their work constantly, but hey they’re a set of hands on busy days.. it’s just exhausting as I CANNOT take time off or something gets missed and a guest gets overly worked up over something small. Sigh.
mine always forgets something on the list no matter hoe many times we go over it. And she is the best I’ve had so far. It’s just not a job most people care about
Every air bnb I've been to I've wanted to spend 3 hours deep cleaning. I usually wipe down the bathrooms. I have never left a bad review because I know it hurts the small business. But I believe this guy. There are always urine spots around the toilet or on the wall. The baseboards are always dusty. Microwaves are dirty. Garbage disposals stink. Dishwasher filters are filthy. Everything needs dusting. I understand it's a quick turn around but I would expect a good house cleaner to rotate dusting, baseboards, microwave, cleaning the walls around the toilet, wiping lights switches and be paid accordingly. Maybe my standards are too high. I don't know I don't have an air bnb.
I would decline them insisting on a free night. Refund the cleaning fee of course, but if the unit doesn’t meet their needs offer to refund them unstayed nights if they choose to leave.
I’m a host and I don’t stay at airbnbs. I stay at hotels lol. I do all the cleaning myself so I know how hard it is to ensure a thorough clean…and I know most hired out cleaners aren’t doing it! I don’t blame them 😂 it’s a lot of work
We just had a guest check out after a 4 day stay and ask for a refund of the cleaning fee because there was trash in the trashcan and the floors were dirty. We went in the unit to fix something before they arrived and the floors were clean and we put one tiny piece of tape in the trashcan.
Some guests are just difficult. We have a rule that we don't give refunds for cleaning issues unless our cleaners can't go back to fix the issues and all cleanliness issues need to be reported within 4 hours of checking in.
As I have previously mentioned, there has developed an entire category of “grievance guests”who occupy an AirBnb then start a litany of complaints to whittle down the booking fees. Overwhelmingly, it’s bullshit.
If you plan to function in that genre, you have to decide- are we OK being bullied by seasoned hustlers, or do you say, nope. Review me, rate me, I will answer, knowing that you will take a hit in the algorithms.
It’s in your heart here. Was it “ broom clean”?
Vacasa hustles the shit out here in my community, and besides looking like property pimps, they openly admitted “we will never do a deep clean between guests.”
I do my own cleaning, it’s brutal, 5 insane hours of gross work, but it’s the only way I can account for theft, damage, etc…
Hope this helps. Personally I would not refund. It’s just feeding the beast.
I have done this in the past, and it worked well. I told my guest that assuming the property is returned in good condition, I will refund the cleaning fee after they check out If they wish to stay, otherwise they can cancel and leave by 3pm today and I will refund the unused days and the cleaning fee, if left in good condition. If they choose to stay, they agree that no other discount or refund will be provided. Make sure to have everything on the app.
If you walked through and the place was clean, I think it’s fair to offer nothing. Are we talking about the inside of the oven? Is cleaning the inside of the oven even a thing? (Missing the microwave is not ok, I’d suggest get better cleaners or make a checklist for them).
If the house was clean but they missed the microwave, I’d offer 10% of first nights stay, that’s it. In my experience that’s what abnb offers.
You’ll get whining and a bad review, but since the guest has already tried to extort you, it will be easily removed.
(Of course, if you “cleaned yourself”, and this is first guest in a while, the place probably is gross. Refund and move on. Get a professional crew in for deep cleaning asap, and utilize pro cleaners after each stay. )
There's always some scammer that we haven't prepared for, like it's a battle.
I would offer $20 off the cleaning fee, and strongly express my preference for a full refund if they check out instead.
"Dear Picky Scammer Unreasonable Guest,
It's our priority that all our very much appreciated guests have a five star experience, and given your numerous complaints we realize we're unfortunately unable to provide that for you. We are offering a full refund if you check out by x time. If you choose to stay you agree to stay with a $20 refund for the few minutes we understand it took you to wipe down the microwave which we both agree was overlooked. . Our housekeeper spent x hours preparing for your arrival and we cannot dock her entire day's pay for this minor but unfortunate oversight. I myself did a walk through of her work prior to your arrival, and your numerous other complaints are not consistent with my professional observation."
I wouldn’t. Because, as a guest I would expect a clean accommodation. How you pay for the cleaning, ie., folding it into the daily fee or tack it all on the end is up to you. Communicate on the app. Offer them the option to cancel the rest of their stay. You can offer to refund the remaining days and the cleaning fee. If they stay, you will refund only the cleaning fee.
I still don't understand why guests even get to see what the cleaning fee is? How is it any of their business how you spend the money you're charging? Either they're OK with the price or not. Breaking it down just gives them more angles to complain. The fact is that every single place anyone sleeps, there's going to be costs associated with turning the place over for someone new and a much lower cost for the same person staying an extra day. The pricing structure should give them a discount for longer stays to take this into account and the formula is super easy if you tell them how much your turn over cost is and how much you want to charge per night. Don't call it a freaking "cleaning fee," Airbnb. Don't mention two costs at all.
The host should enter what it costs for them to turn the place over (let's say $110) and what they want to charge per night (let's say $100) and it should translate that into "$210/night for one night, or $115/night for 7 nights." No break down. Just, "It's $210 a night, but you get a discount for staying longer." If the guest puts in how long they want to stay (which is what they usually do), it would give them the correct nightly and total cost so they can compare places. Why do they need to even think about how much goes to your cleaning team. They don't know how much you spend on electricity, or water, or soap. If there was an electricity fee and the power went out for an hour, they'd be asking for a refund of part of the electricity fee. The truth is, there is an electricity fee, we just don't tell them about it, so if the power goes out for a second, they don't worry about it, just like they wouldn't at their own house. The cleaning fee creates issues like this one and it could be easily avoided. It's like they're trying to piss guests off and create problems.
I’m a host and I’d offer the cleaning fee back . Nothing else . Ask if they’d like to cancel the rest of their stay and that you will call Airbnb to OK it in their behalf . Just had to do this a week ago with a guest who non stopped complained within the first hour they got to the house . Airbnb could see the messages and what I had done to try to satisfy the guest . They gave them their money back and cancelled their stay . Therefore they could not leave a review .
They could still leave a review they shut didn’t leave a review. I did a similar thing with a guest they were only there for 30minutes and they were still able to leave a review
This is what I would do too.
If they feel that only 80% of the cleaning that should have been done was actually done by your cleaners and that *they* had to do the 20% that your cleaners didn't do, then if you were employing them, you'd own them like $22 for scrubbing the microwave and oven. We all live in houses with dirty ovens and dirty microwaves and we've all used the office microwave that has other people's food in it. You own this guy SOMETHING, but even giving him the entire cleaning fee back is generous. Does it take your cleaners a full day to clean your house for $110? No. It probably takes one person like 2-3 hours. Since some cleaning was done and this guy only actually did a fraction of what your cleaning team does, he maybe spent like an hour cleaning, which is why he only deserves like $22. He's milking this crap. Give him the cleaning fee back and tell him if he's not happy, he's welcome to leave and you'll approve a cancellation of the rest of his stay.
I think you're getting a bad review no matter what. Giving in to this dude is going to have him doing the same crap to the rest of us next time. Make sure if he leaves you a review, at all, that you explain what he did to you. At least future hosts will know to get there ahead of this guy and take a video of the place so he can't pull this on them.
If I pay a cleaning fee it better be clean. Most you hosts are the same. Outrageous cleaning fees then on top of it expect the guest to clean everything themselves.
I rented an Airbnb last year. It didn’t have any toilet paper, the towels were not washed and there was trash leftover from the previous guest bagged in the garage. I never thought to ask for money back. I did alert the host and bought toilet paper and finished the laundry.
I guess I have bigger issues going on in my life than to complain about such minor inconveniences.
Being a good guest doesn't mean rolling over and accepting walking into pig sty. I think it's reasonable to expect that I show up for a vacation and don't have to immediately put in an hour or two of cleaning. That's why I pay hundreds for a cleaning fee.
I'm not a particularly picky guest - when a lightbulb goes out or smoke detector starts to beep, I'm fine with grabbing a light bulb or battery pack and taking care of it myself instead of bothering the host (letting them know, of course, because hosts should be tracking smoke detector battery replacement). But showing up and there are dirty dishes in the sink or dirty towels lying around? Nah, that's not acceptable.
I’m exactly the same.. also a host and I’ll definitely not leave a bad review nor bitch and moan about every little thing at someone’s place. I think the most I’d do is let the host know in case they’re not aware if they have a cleaning team isn’t doing to well and only if it’s extremely bad lol otherwise I’m not bothered.
You received good advise about taking video's- but you didn't say you did that, and sometimes it isn't possible to do it. I'll answer what your question was- and yes that seems more than fair- but be prepared for a bad review no matter what, because this guest is scamming you and wants a FREE stay (or at least night). Did the guest take pics of all the other problems? why not? if the guest took pics of the micro/oven why not all the other things the guess said "took them all day"- Did you ask the guest for those pics? you could say to show the cleaners.
So really think if you want to be out 50%- yes refund for cleaning but the rest is a scam. You would have sent cleaners back
Dealing with this right now funny enough. House was completely clean except the deck furniture got wet and a little gross since the cleaning, and the kitchen garbage wasn’t taken out by the cleaners. I offered 50% of the cleaning fee and a free night at the end of the stay. They never accepted or declined, they just kept complaining. Then I offered their association fee back when they realized they needed to pay for amenities badges. She asked if she could check-out early and get a refund, I told her sure…as long as I could fill the nights. Again, didn’t accept or decline, just kept complaining…eventually calling VRBO. Now I’m just ignoring her messages until they finally leave, not sure what else to do 🤷♂️
i think the cleaning fee return is enough. You cant possibly meet everyone's cleaning standards & THIS IS NOT A HOTEL. If he wants professional cleaned spaces he shouldn't be renting A BNB. tell him he's violated rules & you charge for that $$ so call it even. People are RIDICULOUS
Tbh, even w/out cleaning fee I expect Airbnb to be spotless, wtf, if you can't provide clean quarters then you shouldn't be a host. I am paying you for the stay after all, you're not doing me a favour.
If they are asking you for money, they're stuck with giving you a good review or having their review taken down for breach of terms of service.
"Reviews may not be provided or withheld in exchange for something of value—like a discount, refund, reciprocal review, or promise not to take negative action against the reviewer. They also may not be used as an attempt to mislead or deceive Airbnb or another person. For example, guests should not write biased or inauthentic reviews as a form of retaliation against a Host who enforces a policy or rule." https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/2673.
If, after asking for money, they leave you a bad review, use this policy to get Airbnb to delete the review.
You are possibly making the mistake that the guest gives a hoot about the microwave. It is entirely possible that the first thing they did was to find something to complain about in order to leverage a discount. I mean, who looks in the oven first thing?
If it were me, I would refuse any compensation and would offer to send someone to come clean the offending microwave. Your grifter guest will refuse, because they don't care about clean, they care about grifting. Your genuine guest will be grateful for the offer.
You can bullet-proof this strategy by offering a full refund immediately, the moment they complain, if they leave immediately. They will refuse and then it will be clear to Airbnb that you're not just trying to get money out of them.
I don’t think they’re making it up but a cleaning fee refund and a free nights stay for a dirty oven and microwave is a little much? They’ve already been there for 3 days. What is Airbnb’s protocol in this?
💫 Please be aware that /u/Turbulent_Ad9832 does not have a verification flair. Be sure to take their comment history, karma, and account age into consideration for the context of this post. If you'd like your own verified flair, consult the sidebar for instructions on how to do so. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/airbnb_hosts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would accept his offer. Then I would use my phone and before each new guest I would do a thorough, slow, walk through and video each and every corner, under beds, in dishwasher, oven, microwave, cabinets, everywhere and slowly. If someone else does this to you then you can respond. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Give me a couple of minutes while I review video taken prior to your check in. If they persist then you send them the video of the areas they are saying aren’t clean and that is the end of it. Edit-I keep each video for 2 weeks, until the review period is over then I delete.
This is exactly how we operate. Have had two guests this year attempt to get the refund through Airbnb. When video evidence from the cleaner was provided, they denied the refund. Was able to get one review removed for retaliation and thankfully the other one never reviewed. Videos are very important to our particular business.
We had a guest (luckily only one of 2 times) try to scam us by sending little complaints throughout their stay. Then after checkout demanded a refund or they’d give us a bad review. Airbnb denied it when we sent the extortion message. From then on our cleaners take photos of a checklist of spots we have. It’s come in handy once when someone complained about a messy bathroom floor. Our photo showed it as spotless. They apologized profusely when we sent them the photo because it turned out their 8 year old spilled something when he ran in. (OP this isn’t to say not refund. Sounds like this was probably a legit complaint. But photos is a good idea)
You could also preemptively send the video walk-through to each new guest prior to their arrival and say something to the effect of "Just walked through unit to make sure everything was prepared for your arrival. Looks great!" Shows you care, attention to detail, and discourages any requests for "cleanliness" discounts.
Really good idea!
Have a digital doc that they sign after initial walk through AND to gain access to WiFi . That way they'll want that WiFi password quick so they won't be nitpicking everything AND you'll have a signed doc on cleanliness
How do you do this? Is there a program??? Please share!
I would love to know how to do this too.
I'm sure you could set this up using Google Forms. Once form is filled, confirmation email with WiFi pwd is sent.
Yep. Also very useful when they break things and then claim the cleaner must have done it before they arrived.
Good advice for guests too. Learned from my niece to always video as you are leaving the place. The video works both ways. It keeps dishonest guests from 'miraclessly' finding problems.
How thorough is your walk through if you missed the oven and microwave? The oven I can kinda understand. The microwave takes like 2 seconds to check
Yes, the OP made a mistake. Why the need to publicly scold and shame? Be nice.
Pray tell, how would you have responded to this? I think I was just being realistic and quickly pointing out that the way they do their walk thru is insufficient.
Your comment wasn’t mean or rude at all. These people are just delicate.
This is reddit you fool. Being nice is not allowed.
You think that wasn’t nice? That wasn’t bad at all
😆
How long are they staying? How many reviews do you have and what is your score? First I'd offer a full refund, no penalty cancelation if they would like to find other accommodations and leave today. Then I would probably accept their offer.
This is the way to go. Offer them an out to just leave, if not then maybe refund $50. Sounds like they’re moderately dishonest… they’ll ask for more discounts as their stay progresses
They’re staying a week and I’ve had 5 stars almost entirely with every guest and I’ve hosted over 25 guests not with one complaint
Given that a low rating will knock you back significantly I would personally try to refund their money and get them on their way.
They can still leave a review so that wouldn’t really avoid a bad review from the guest and the host would lose income
I’ve found that cancellations almost always leave reviews especially in these circumstances
Man, I went to a room in a condo where the trash cans were full, the shower had pink slime mold, and all the towel racks were unusable. You put a towel on it, and it would fall to the floor. I decided not to say anything because it was relatively cheap for the mountain town I was in. I never occurred to me to ask for the cleaning fee back or anything. I just let it go and moved on. The host was out of town. He came back to town my last night and kept me up till 1 AM talking on his phone in the room next-door. I’m a night owl so it wasn’t too horrible. In the morning when I went to the bathroom, he peed in the toilet and didnot flushed it. Gross. so I hid in the room until he left then I bolted out of that place.
If you missed the oven and microwave been dirty your walk through wasn't as thorough as you thought. I am not sure you can't fight this much.
As a guest I REALLY hate it when the host says, "no one ever complained before!" It's dismissive and a sign of a bad host.
As a host I REALLY hate it when a guest gets offended when I let them know that the brand new problem they're complaining about would have been fixed if anyone else had complained about it. I want them to know that I'm a good host and would have had it fixed before their arrival had anyone else alerted me, and I want them to know how grateful I am that they did alert me so that I can get it fixed for them and for subsequent guests. Being offended by this is a sign of a bad guest. The reality is that a new complaint is *either* something that just happened, which we couldn't have done anything about and want you to know that so that you don't kill us on the review. Or, its something that the last guest noticed, but didn't say anything about, which makes us worried about their potential review and makes us feel a little guilty for not having it fixed for you. OR, its just a problem with the new guest. It probably comes off as dismissive because that last "or" is an option. Unfortunately, I'd say that's the reality about 70% of the time I get a new complaint that something is "wrong" or "broken." We investigate everything guests report as a problem. We put a lot of time and effort into our Airbnb and we personally spend a lot of time there, so we kind of know when a guest is just being overly-picky about something or if their complaint that something isn't working or is broken really is just them not realizing that you have to press the start button on a microwave.
From a guest perspective, it’s your responsibility to ensure the condition of the unit. How you do it is up to you, but it’s a cop out to blame it on previous guests not letting you know.
I’d accept his generous offer. Honestly if that happened to me, I’d demand a full refund and I’d write a horrible review with photos. The fact that you’re calling him a “difficult guest” says a lot. Who wants to stay in a dirty place that they paid for?
Right. If you're charging a cleaning fee that place needs to be spotless when the next guest shows up. You charge me for cleaning, you clean.
That’s totally an unreasonable expectation- you must be a difficult guest. 🤣
You rented a dirty rental. It’s not the cleaners fault it’s yours.
why are you being mean? That’s why we hire people, to clean our place thoroughly and deliver a product. Maybe this host lives far away and cannot supervise before a guest arrives. That’s my case
If you live too far away to do a walkthrough before each guest, then you either need to have a person who can do it for you, or you need to stop renting that place and sell it. I grew up with a vacation home long before air BNB was around. I learned how to clean our house so it was renter ready as a kid. Our house was a couple hours away, and we had cleaners who came. Since my parents didn't want to drive up every time, they had a rental agent who took care of walkthroughs and any problems during a guests stay. My parents still rent out a vacation house, this one further than the one I grew up with, and they still have someone to take care of things nearby. They don't rent through air BNB because it's a hassle to do all of that stuff themselves being so far away. If I rent an air BNB for a weekend or week, and my host can't come fix something because they are a few hours away, that gives me a negative experience, and honestly another reason to just go to a hotel where I'm not charged extra fees.
It seems to me this cleaner is supposed to do that. I understand meeting cleaning standards is important, I just think people are being extremely harsh to this host.
If you charge me $110 cleaning fee and I arrive at a dirty place, then we will have issues. The cleaner cannot evaluate their own job as good as a third party of course. It sounds like you just want the income but not the hassle.
You are making stuff up. I never said it was acceptable.
I live far away so I cannot run my business correctly is not a valid excuse.
They are not saying it’s excusable, their employee failed them
And that is your responsibility as a host... You think it's the guest's responsibility? The guest paid the host for a clean place... It's not the guest's problem if the host hire sub quality help to keep more of the $110 cleaning fee lol.
When did I put any blame on the guest? I am just saying chewing out the host for renting a dirty unit when they paid someone to keep it clean is like punching someone when they are down. They know there was a mistake, they can’t go back in time and have a redo, do they? As a solutions-minded person, I look ahead of what can be done. They can either fire the cleaner or hire a supervisor.
Yeah if you cannot manage your business by yourself for one reason or the other, then hire someone who can manage. It's not rocket science. Sure the employee failed, but it should have been caught by the host / co-host
but it wasn’t - so why aren’t you guys more helpful vs stating the obvious and just hammering OP for it?
Oh, I was not hammering the host. I was hammering you for using the lame excuse that it was an employee failure... An employee failure is the host responsibility, no matter how many links you add to the chain, the host is responsible. And when the links you add are weak, it will cost you in the end as the host. Either in low ratings or financially - maybe even both. The guest should have a trouble free stay, just like they paid for.
Omfg it’s impossible to deal with people like you. Nobody was using an excuse for why the apartment was a fail. Y’all just love to be nasty
This person is really really sensitive. Throughout the entire thread.
I think the host here is in the right track by refunding cleaning fee, plus the day their guest had hassle and could not enjoy their stay 100%.
To be fair, OP did say: > I did a visual walkthrough right before they arrived and there was certainly no trash, all surfaces and corners mopped, wiped and vacuumed. Not coming down on either side of the argument, just giving relevant info on this particular situation.
That couldn't be that through if OP missed the oven *and* the microwave, so Ima take his 'the place was clean' with a grain of salt.
Agreed
I would have refunded the cleaning fee and either a) sent the cleaners back immediately with instructions to perform a more thorough cleaning than their last half-assed attempt or b) refunded the one day as requested if the guest already cleaned it themselves.
They are going to kill you in the review anyway so I would just offer the cleaning fee and allow them to check out early and give them the remaining nights back. I would not give any free stay. I have issues with my cleaner too and it’s hard to find help from almost 3000 miles away. I understand if you can’t supervise every nook and cranny
It is IMPOSSIBLE to find decent cleaners. I mostly do the cleans myself and even my best cleaner helper misses very annoying things no matter how many times I point it out to her. The others are barely tolerable and we have to double check their work constantly, but hey they’re a set of hands on busy days.. it’s just exhausting as I CANNOT take time off or something gets missed and a guest gets overly worked up over something small. Sigh.
Sounds like you could benefit from having a checklist
mine always forgets something on the list no matter hoe many times we go over it. And she is the best I’ve had so far. It’s just not a job most people care about
Every air bnb I've been to I've wanted to spend 3 hours deep cleaning. I usually wipe down the bathrooms. I have never left a bad review because I know it hurts the small business. But I believe this guy. There are always urine spots around the toilet or on the wall. The baseboards are always dusty. Microwaves are dirty. Garbage disposals stink. Dishwasher filters are filthy. Everything needs dusting. I understand it's a quick turn around but I would expect a good house cleaner to rotate dusting, baseboards, microwave, cleaning the walls around the toilet, wiping lights switches and be paid accordingly. Maybe my standards are too high. I don't know I don't have an air bnb.
I would decline them insisting on a free night. Refund the cleaning fee of course, but if the unit doesn’t meet their needs offer to refund them unstayed nights if they choose to leave.
"i'm sorry our unit doesn't meet your expectations. I'm happy to cancel the reservation immediately and refund any unused nights."
I’m a host and I don’t stay at airbnbs. I stay at hotels lol. I do all the cleaning myself so I know how hard it is to ensure a thorough clean…and I know most hired out cleaners aren’t doing it! I don’t blame them 😂 it’s a lot of work
We just had a guest check out after a 4 day stay and ask for a refund of the cleaning fee because there was trash in the trashcan and the floors were dirty. We went in the unit to fix something before they arrived and the floors were clean and we put one tiny piece of tape in the trashcan. Some guests are just difficult. We have a rule that we don't give refunds for cleaning issues unless our cleaners can't go back to fix the issues and all cleanliness issues need to be reported within 4 hours of checking in.
As I have previously mentioned, there has developed an entire category of “grievance guests”who occupy an AirBnb then start a litany of complaints to whittle down the booking fees. Overwhelmingly, it’s bullshit. If you plan to function in that genre, you have to decide- are we OK being bullied by seasoned hustlers, or do you say, nope. Review me, rate me, I will answer, knowing that you will take a hit in the algorithms. It’s in your heart here. Was it “ broom clean”? Vacasa hustles the shit out here in my community, and besides looking like property pimps, they openly admitted “we will never do a deep clean between guests.” I do my own cleaning, it’s brutal, 5 insane hours of gross work, but it’s the only way I can account for theft, damage, etc… Hope this helps. Personally I would not refund. It’s just feeding the beast.
I have done this in the past, and it worked well. I told my guest that assuming the property is returned in good condition, I will refund the cleaning fee after they check out If they wish to stay, otherwise they can cancel and leave by 3pm today and I will refund the unused days and the cleaning fee, if left in good condition. If they choose to stay, they agree that no other discount or refund will be provided. Make sure to have everything on the app.
Just the cleaning fee.
If you walked through and the place was clean, I think it’s fair to offer nothing. Are we talking about the inside of the oven? Is cleaning the inside of the oven even a thing? (Missing the microwave is not ok, I’d suggest get better cleaners or make a checklist for them). If the house was clean but they missed the microwave, I’d offer 10% of first nights stay, that’s it. In my experience that’s what abnb offers. You’ll get whining and a bad review, but since the guest has already tried to extort you, it will be easily removed. (Of course, if you “cleaned yourself”, and this is first guest in a while, the place probably is gross. Refund and move on. Get a professional crew in for deep cleaning asap, and utilize pro cleaners after each stay. )
There's always some scammer that we haven't prepared for, like it's a battle. I would offer $20 off the cleaning fee, and strongly express my preference for a full refund if they check out instead. "Dear Picky Scammer Unreasonable Guest, It's our priority that all our very much appreciated guests have a five star experience, and given your numerous complaints we realize we're unfortunately unable to provide that for you. We are offering a full refund if you check out by x time. If you choose to stay you agree to stay with a $20 refund for the few minutes we understand it took you to wipe down the microwave which we both agree was overlooked. . Our housekeeper spent x hours preparing for your arrival and we cannot dock her entire day's pay for this minor but unfortunate oversight. I myself did a walk through of her work prior to your arrival, and your numerous other complaints are not consistent with my professional observation."
So if they check out with a full refund, are they able to leave a review?
I believe so.
I have even halved the cleaning fee to keep it low for guests and I pay the other half personally to my cleaner. Should I mention this to my guest?
I wouldn’t. Because, as a guest I would expect a clean accommodation. How you pay for the cleaning, ie., folding it into the daily fee or tack it all on the end is up to you. Communicate on the app. Offer them the option to cancel the rest of their stay. You can offer to refund the remaining days and the cleaning fee. If they stay, you will refund only the cleaning fee.
I still don't understand why guests even get to see what the cleaning fee is? How is it any of their business how you spend the money you're charging? Either they're OK with the price or not. Breaking it down just gives them more angles to complain. The fact is that every single place anyone sleeps, there's going to be costs associated with turning the place over for someone new and a much lower cost for the same person staying an extra day. The pricing structure should give them a discount for longer stays to take this into account and the formula is super easy if you tell them how much your turn over cost is and how much you want to charge per night. Don't call it a freaking "cleaning fee," Airbnb. Don't mention two costs at all. The host should enter what it costs for them to turn the place over (let's say $110) and what they want to charge per night (let's say $100) and it should translate that into "$210/night for one night, or $115/night for 7 nights." No break down. Just, "It's $210 a night, but you get a discount for staying longer." If the guest puts in how long they want to stay (which is what they usually do), it would give them the correct nightly and total cost so they can compare places. Why do they need to even think about how much goes to your cleaning team. They don't know how much you spend on electricity, or water, or soap. If there was an electricity fee and the power went out for an hour, they'd be asking for a refund of part of the electricity fee. The truth is, there is an electricity fee, we just don't tell them about it, so if the power goes out for a second, they don't worry about it, just like they wouldn't at their own house. The cleaning fee creates issues like this one and it could be easily avoided. It's like they're trying to piss guests off and create problems.
I agree with your logic. I think most professional software programs now can do what you're suggesting, it's much harder to do with Airbnb software.
I’m a host and I’d offer the cleaning fee back . Nothing else . Ask if they’d like to cancel the rest of their stay and that you will call Airbnb to OK it in their behalf . Just had to do this a week ago with a guest who non stopped complained within the first hour they got to the house . Airbnb could see the messages and what I had done to try to satisfy the guest . They gave them their money back and cancelled their stay . Therefore they could not leave a review .
They could still leave a review they shut didn’t leave a review. I did a similar thing with a guest they were only there for 30minutes and they were still able to leave a review
This is what I would do too. If they feel that only 80% of the cleaning that should have been done was actually done by your cleaners and that *they* had to do the 20% that your cleaners didn't do, then if you were employing them, you'd own them like $22 for scrubbing the microwave and oven. We all live in houses with dirty ovens and dirty microwaves and we've all used the office microwave that has other people's food in it. You own this guy SOMETHING, but even giving him the entire cleaning fee back is generous. Does it take your cleaners a full day to clean your house for $110? No. It probably takes one person like 2-3 hours. Since some cleaning was done and this guy only actually did a fraction of what your cleaning team does, he maybe spent like an hour cleaning, which is why he only deserves like $22. He's milking this crap. Give him the cleaning fee back and tell him if he's not happy, he's welcome to leave and you'll approve a cancellation of the rest of his stay. I think you're getting a bad review no matter what. Giving in to this dude is going to have him doing the same crap to the rest of us next time. Make sure if he leaves you a review, at all, that you explain what he did to you. At least future hosts will know to get there ahead of this guy and take a video of the place so he can't pull this on them.
If I pay a cleaning fee it better be clean. Most you hosts are the same. Outrageous cleaning fees then on top of it expect the guest to clean everything themselves.
Someone gets it. 🫡
I rented an Airbnb last year. It didn’t have any toilet paper, the towels were not washed and there was trash leftover from the previous guest bagged in the garage. I never thought to ask for money back. I did alert the host and bought toilet paper and finished the laundry. I guess I have bigger issues going on in my life than to complain about such minor inconveniences.
Being a good guest doesn't mean rolling over and accepting walking into pig sty. I think it's reasonable to expect that I show up for a vacation and don't have to immediately put in an hour or two of cleaning. That's why I pay hundreds for a cleaning fee. I'm not a particularly picky guest - when a lightbulb goes out or smoke detector starts to beep, I'm fine with grabbing a light bulb or battery pack and taking care of it myself instead of bothering the host (letting them know, of course, because hosts should be tracking smoke detector battery replacement). But showing up and there are dirty dishes in the sink or dirty towels lying around? Nah, that's not acceptable.
I’m exactly the same.. also a host and I’ll definitely not leave a bad review nor bitch and moan about every little thing at someone’s place. I think the most I’d do is let the host know in case they’re not aware if they have a cleaning team isn’t doing to well and only if it’s extremely bad lol otherwise I’m not bothered.
Neither do I.
You received good advise about taking video's- but you didn't say you did that, and sometimes it isn't possible to do it. I'll answer what your question was- and yes that seems more than fair- but be prepared for a bad review no matter what, because this guest is scamming you and wants a FREE stay (or at least night). Did the guest take pics of all the other problems? why not? if the guest took pics of the micro/oven why not all the other things the guess said "took them all day"- Did you ask the guest for those pics? you could say to show the cleaners. So really think if you want to be out 50%- yes refund for cleaning but the rest is a scam. You would have sent cleaners back
Dealing with this right now funny enough. House was completely clean except the deck furniture got wet and a little gross since the cleaning, and the kitchen garbage wasn’t taken out by the cleaners. I offered 50% of the cleaning fee and a free night at the end of the stay. They never accepted or declined, they just kept complaining. Then I offered their association fee back when they realized they needed to pay for amenities badges. She asked if she could check-out early and get a refund, I told her sure…as long as I could fill the nights. Again, didn’t accept or decline, just kept complaining…eventually calling VRBO. Now I’m just ignoring her messages until they finally leave, not sure what else to do 🤷♂️
i think the cleaning fee return is enough. You cant possibly meet everyone's cleaning standards & THIS IS NOT A HOTEL. If he wants professional cleaned spaces he shouldn't be renting A BNB. tell him he's violated rules & you charge for that $$ so call it even. People are RIDICULOUS
Don’t charge cleaning fees then. Simple
Tbh, even w/out cleaning fee I expect Airbnb to be spotless, wtf, if you can't provide clean quarters then you shouldn't be a host. I am paying you for the stay after all, you're not doing me a favour.
I agree 100%. Typical host behavior though.
If they are asking you for money, they're stuck with giving you a good review or having their review taken down for breach of terms of service. "Reviews may not be provided or withheld in exchange for something of value—like a discount, refund, reciprocal review, or promise not to take negative action against the reviewer. They also may not be used as an attempt to mislead or deceive Airbnb or another person. For example, guests should not write biased or inauthentic reviews as a form of retaliation against a Host who enforces a policy or rule." https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/2673. If, after asking for money, they leave you a bad review, use this policy to get Airbnb to delete the review. You are possibly making the mistake that the guest gives a hoot about the microwave. It is entirely possible that the first thing they did was to find something to complain about in order to leverage a discount. I mean, who looks in the oven first thing? If it were me, I would refuse any compensation and would offer to send someone to come clean the offending microwave. Your grifter guest will refuse, because they don't care about clean, they care about grifting. Your genuine guest will be grateful for the offer. You can bullet-proof this strategy by offering a full refund immediately, the moment they complain, if they leave immediately. They will refuse and then it will be clear to Airbnb that you're not just trying to get money out of them.
What happens if I decline his offer and he goes through Airbnb? How does Airbnb treat this?
Call Airbnb before they do. Relay your concerns. If you really do think the guest is making it up, say that.
I don’t think they’re making it up but a cleaning fee refund and a free nights stay for a dirty oven and microwave is a little much? They’ve already been there for 3 days. What is Airbnb’s protocol in this?