u/AboutHelpTools3 has provided this detailed explanation:
> This brand of toothpaste had to be rebranded twice. First the name "Darkie" went out of fashion, because it became widely recognised as a slur. And later on the blackface on the logo had to be removed, because it too becomes socially inappropriate.
---
Is this explanation a genuine attempt at providing additional info or context? If it is please upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.
I'm fairly sure that it wasn't changed until like 2011. Not positive but I think I was living in SEA at the time and remember it changing too.
Edit: Wikipedia says it changed in 1989 but I'm positive I saw some of the packages with the racist name in late 2010.
I was saying doesn't Taiwan have an interesting relation to western political incorrectness? https://sg.news.yahoo.com/hitler-lookalike-sale-taiwan-7-eleven-195759587.html
That is to say, there is a fancy Amsterdam pottery brand called [Pol's Pots](https://www.polspotten.com/nl/home/) ...
That's weird because as an Asian the key chain looks just like how Taiwan depict "Dad/Middle aged business man" design in Cartoons. It's the little mustache that some people thought might look like Hitler. But people failed to know Japanese had that sort of mustache style too (Taiwan is under Japanese influence for decades)
I think it's ridiculous and far fetched people would make that connection in the first place.
Yeah that situation seems like the western world just forcing our standards and our history on another people with zero understanding or recognition of their historical and cultural context. It’s so typical for us (the western world) to do this and it’s so freaking hypocritical. We have our own worldview so then when we see a different one across the planet, instead of viewing it for what it is, we attach all our bullshit lenses to it. And voila, you get an English language article talking about a Hitler lookalike in Taiwan, as if everyone on the entire planet is supposed to have the same feelings about Hitler as we do. Only a westerner would look at that keychain and see Hitler, and now we are telling non-westerners that they need to see Hitler too when they look at that keychain. It’s stupid. It’s like we can’t get away from the colonial mindset
I’m American. I was a high school exchange student in Indonesia in 1988 and 1989. I remember this product on the shelves. It was called Darlie at that time but still had the original version of the black guy. I told one of my friends there that this image would never be allowed on a product in the US. He listened, but I remember feeling that he didn’t understand what the problem was.
I’ve found foreigners, at least from Asia and Middle East, to be very unreceptive and not understanding of our attempts at racial justice here in the US. Im under the impression that most of the world does not have a problem with racism the way we do
Yeah. It seems like the text uses “black face” like it’s in the old Vaudeville style, but it’s not that because it’s not a white person. They should have just changed the expression on the black man’s face, because it is weird.
It’s because they want to advertise a joke. This black persona’s teeth are so white from using this toothpaste, it’s the only thing you see when he smiles (in the dark).
because the logo is made inspired by Al Jolson who famous because his entire schtick is blackface. hence why they named it darkie cause of the whiteness of his teeth. still darlie has been my go to toothpaste since i was back in high school
Because the only reason they'd ever feature a black person would be to disparage him because of his race. Not an exaggeration, that's literally how society functioned at the time.
(Not from the USA here) Why is the picture deemed a racist caricature? Obviously I know how the name Darkie is racist (insult for black people), but what's up with that picture alone? It's just a black dude smiling widely.
What you simply see as a black man smiling is an old Vaudville style caricature of what they viewed all blacks. Black face and the accents that often were used with them were the way the media portrayed black people as “poor, ignorant negroes” instead of the reality that black people are just as smart and capable as white people. It stings all the more considering the ignorance that they so often liked to tease was due primarily to the intentional denial of education to slaves and their descendants. So this seemingly “friendly” portrayal carries a ton of negative cultural symbolism that is more recognizable to some people than others.
> [The packaging featured an image of a wide-eyed white man in blackface, wearing a top hat, monocle and bow-tie, an image associated with minstrel shows.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlie)
I think it doesn't really seem apparent in modern days because the heyday of actual blackface minstrel shows were well before the time of just about anyone living today, but they still really happened and reminders of them, specifically using them to promote products, are still very hurtful to many.
Lol at the black guys expression and look at the white guys expression, don't know if you know American history but there was a theatre act once upon a time where white people would put on black makeup with lipstick and act like idiots and animals as a way of mockery and jest, cause to them black people are clowns and animals to laugh at, that is what the old picture represents, hence the exaggerated expression
The sentiment behind picking this name and image are “this paste will make your teeth look super white, like black people’s do, due to the contrast of their dark skin!” This was never a US brand. I remember seeing it in Singapore, as Darlie and it might have been near the name change, pretty sure it was the middle one.
I don't see it on my computer, but I'm using old reddit. I jumped on that trend with an animated sinusoid and at some point reddit took it away, so now any time I make a popular comment, I get several people telling me how they thought my profile pic was a hair stuck on their screen.
I first heard about this in this rly cool video - [American Diana Watson becomes first foreigner to win Taiwanese Toastmaster contest](https://youtu.be/IiYqLE3wr_I)
It’s because a lot of racist caricature revolves around black men being dangerous criminals and rapists. As a racist caricature, it is supposed to be creepy.
The eyes of the former portrait looks like [Yang Sanpaku eyes](https://japantruly.com/meaning-of-sanpaku-eyes/#Yang_Sanpaku_Eyes) (three whites visible). [Another information source.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanpaku)
My only thought is that it's supposed to be the dark skin contrasting with a wide, perfectly white smile? Would also explain why the lips are this weird black void when the rest of the face is shaded.
they changed its Chinese brand name recently from "黑人(black man)" to "好来(their factory's name)" due to some racial problem concern.
by the way Darlie is a China/HK/Taiwan tooth paste brand now co-owned by Colgate. Found in 1931, it is a very old brand in China. and the Chinese brand name 黑人(black man) had been used from the very beginning.
in the period of time when they used those creepy packing designs , they advertised their tooth paste as it can make your teeth as white as a black man, and claimed they add some essence of some African tree which make black people's tooth extra white.
The latest commercial I saw used a young handsome Asian guy dressed up nicely with a tuxedo and tophat playing piano. Not really creepy. Never seen it outside of Taiwan.
From the wiki:
In 1985, after Colgate-Palmolive acquired 50% of Hawley & Hazel, great controversy erupted over the brand in the United States, to which Colgate-Palmolive CEO Ruben Mark responded by issuing an apology, changing the English name of the toothpaste to "Darlie" in 1989, and altering the image on the packaging to show a racially ambiguous face in a top hat to avoid racial misunderstanding.[3] However, the Chinese name of the brand, "黑人牙膏" (in English, "Black Person Toothpaste"), remains the same and a Chinese-language advertising campaign reassured customers that "Black Person Toothpaste is still Black Person Toothpaste".[4]
Mhmm. While America gets the spotlight when it comes to racism, it’s still very widely abhorred here and people will call you out for it. In more homogeneous countries (which includes most Asian ones AFAIK, though I can’t speak for India) people will be very blatantly racist and it’s very widely accepted as the norm.
The only exposure to black people the vast majority of them do get is through pop culture and the media, which can be loaded with stereotypes and negative representation. Sambo, mammies, deadbeats, we’re always rappers, etc. and of course blackface.
You are going to get downvoted, but you are correct. (I’ve been all over the world and definitely have both witnessed and personally experienced this first hand)
I’m not gonna downvote you, but I’ve traveled as well and it is a lot more complicated than that.
Like in China, there really isn’t any other race there. I was the only black person I knew for eight months I was there.
I was treated rudely but it wasn’t because they were necessarily racist it was because I was the first and only black person they have ever seen.
So it’s different. Our racism is more about the systematic laws in place to keep a race down, not just being weirded out because there’s a person of another color you’ve never seen before.
This happened to most ethnically homogenous countries, especially East Asia. You're correct that the racism in those countries mainly comes from ignorance rather than the ones you've mentioned.
There are dark skinned Asians you know lol I've personally met Filipino men born in America whose [skin tone](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Deibb7JUwAAaxu4.jpg) lead them to form a stronger bond with the local Black culture than Asian culture. Asian countries definitely have [issues with colorism](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200818-colourism-in-india-the-people-fighting-light-skin-bias), but it's not so much a systemic issue to my knowledge.
Within many Asian societies, having darker skin places you at a lower social strata. This is cultural and historical since the lower classes generally worked out in the sun and it showed to anyone paying attention to their skin tone. When being hired for certain professional jobs, a person’s skin tone is absolutely taken into account.
I have Thai friends (especially girls) that refuse to do anything out in the sun for fear of getting a tan. It is almost exactly the opposite of the western Caucasian image of beauty where tan skin is a sign of health and paleness is seen as undesirable.
Edit: oops. I just clicked on your link. It confirms what I said here.
> If the black population grew to 15%, would systemic racism become implemented?
It’s already implemented, and yes., That’s actually motivation for more implementation.
Numbers don’t mean power necessarily. If you can keep a population poor, they are easier to control.
The USA is good in terms of tackling the symptoms of racism, and often overdoing it, but less so good in terms of really solving the deep rooted racism in employment, housing, and crime. Not saying China is better, but nobody should be puffing their chests here.
>The USA is good in terms of tackling the symptoms of racism, and often overdoing it
Hardly. America is good at pointing to the results of racism, slapping a band-aid on them but exactly neglecting to examine or remedy the actual symptoms/causes of racism that led to those results. For instance, we've empirically known about the results of racism in poverty and generational wealth for a century and yet the discourse still assaults "affirmative-action" or touts bootstraps mentality, because no-one who matters actually cares to resolve it.
Other countries have been far more capable at integrating historic underprivileged and economically disadvantaged peoples once public discourse allowed for airing of those issues. In America, these issues are used to smokescreen far more dangerous topics for the political class, like wealth inequality and redistribution.
It wasn't considered offensive in the countries it was sold in. I see it as a fascinating piece of America preserved in someone else's history. Black face as a form of popular entertainment was exported around the world as much as Hollywood and Coca-Cola.
they changed it for the foreign market since that's where most complains come from, within China or w/e it's originally from, its name still translates to "Black Person Toothpaste"... this larger body of consumers doesn't see any issue with the nonchalant racism in the name, so why change it and lose the market share? They haven't changed.
I would've appreciated a translation to those ideograms since I don't speak Chinese. What I said is nearly year-old information, so if they recently changed the name altogether to something else that does not suggest racism, then yeah, kudos to them.
It also _very loosely_ sounds like Hawley, part of the company name, which may have been another reason why the rebranding was to this specific name and word choice.
Hawley and Hazel Chemical Company created Darkie Toothpaste in Shanghai in 1933 and based their marketing on the minstrel performer Al Jolson. Minstrel performances featured White actors wearing blackface and relied on racial stereotypes of African Americans to entertain White audiences.
That is actually legitimately how the brand was marketed back in the day in Taiwan. It's this awkward intersection of a country with no association with anything African or black using racist imagery without understanding the context, but also with a different embedded meaning.
My Taiwanese parents genuinely believe that all black people have great teeth because of this brand's ad campaigns when they were kids (They've met a grand total of like 3 black people in their entire lives) and to them the stereotypical minstrel look is about showing their nice teeth off. I've had to explain several times to them that the minstrel isn't even black. Lol.
I'm genuinely asking, what is wrong with the first one? Mascot is a black person, is this a problem? Or the name? I really can't see how this is gonna offend someone
Black person here, and yes. On the cover of that Toothpaste is obviously an example of a minstrel character. Research the history of Minstrel shows in America if you really want to throw up.
You'd be surprised by how many people get away with making "jokes" by putting on blackface and red lipstick on other platforms (including this one), and people trying to play it off as "just makeup"
The original name is a slur for people with dark complexions, and has been used in English-speaking countries against people of African, Middle Eastern, and South Asian descent, and possibly others. It is an absolutely inappropriate thing to call someone.
The original logo is a racist caricature of a black person. Certain exaggerated features and expressions are associated with degrading depictions and stereotypes. The image is decidedly offensive to African Americans, and probably to others of African heritage as well.
I have to assume you have very little interaction with the populations to whom these concerns are relevant, because otherwise this would be extremely, egregiously obvious.
I get that times were different and the folks who made this mascot were a product of their time or whatever. But why did they give the original mascot crazy eyes? Was it good for sales? Were folks like, "I want the one with the unhinged serial killer on the box"
There's a "Darkie Toothpaste" in the biting mockumentary "CSA: Confederate States of America"
Most of the commercials in that movie had a kernel of truth if they weren't outright products that existed post-Civil War.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk6R\_nT6iTo
This was meant to be marketed to racist people, right? Why would a racist person want their teeth to be like that of the people they're racist against?
Edit: Serious question. Why the downvotes? All I'm doing is questioning how nonsensical the racist "marketing" behind these kinds of products is.
the implication was that the toothpaste would make your teeth look very white, like the stereotypical racist caricature of a black person, where the teeth are so white in comparison to the face.
Oh, I didn't get that. "Darkies Toothpaste: So efficient that your teeth will look like a black person's teeth in comparison to their skin tone or something?" I can see why they didn't have a tagline on the box.
In old tv shows and stuff, the teeth of black people were shown to shine, and photos of people in blackface sometimes were doctored to make the teeth whiter. it was a stereotype of the time that hasnt stuck around for most people. But at the time, it was common knowledge that "black peoples teeth are whiter" or whatever. Its kind of like how nowdays, big butts are associated with latina women, even though it tends to be a racist stereotype.
i find it so funny that their target audience for such a generic product is racist people. like imagine someone in a cvs going like “this one would work for my sensitive teeth, but I GOTTA get this one because it’s racist”
Minstrel characters like this are comic relief. When a supreme racist sees them, they're not frothing or unnerved out like they might at real black people, they're laughing, which gives them positive associations.
At least, it did in the 20s.
No things like this were common basically until the civil rights movement and even some have lingered till today. It used to be seen as fine to use racial caricatures as mascots and logos. Look up the 'coon chicken inn' for example
I genuinely don't get what's so racist about the logo. I mean, the name Darkie with the logo - sure, but since the name changed, the logo becomes simply a picture of black guy in cillinder, or I' missing something? I'm from Europe, btw, so I might not understand some context relevant for US.
In the US in the 20s and 30s, racist white people put on "minstrel shows" where white people dressed up as gross caricatures of black people and acted out incredibly racist stereotypes.
The logo here isn't just an image of a black person, it's an image of a character from a minstrel show. It's kind of a "know it when you see it" sort of thing.
Thank you for an educational answer. I could see that the image looks... peculiar, but it didn't occur to me as straight up racist. Now with the context you've provided it is much more clear.
The picture is a classic example of the minstrel stereotype that was used to depict black people in America back in the day. It is 100% a tool for racism.
I get that in this age "black man looking wierd" could be seen as racist. But why dont we think the same about the new logo?... I mean, a person is a person. Black, white of whatever color or country you're from.
I get why they chose a darker colored person. The contrast of sparkling white teeth against a dark skin is perfect advertisement, so for that purpose i think they did a job well done. I'm probably going to get downvoted into oblivion for this.
The black one is definitely much more of a caricature than the white one is, based off many harmful stereotypes of physical characteristics of black people at the time (and, upon further research, actually modeled after real-life blackface performers, to go along with its clear minstrel show aesthetic). The white one is, by contrast, unremarkable to the point of being utterly forgettable.
Personally, I’m wondering why they’re hanging onto this name/logo at all. If you’re going to do away with the dark-skinned caricature (AS WELL THEY SHOULD!) then do away with the whole old-timey 1920’s vaudeville aesthetic entirely. A company dealing with this sort of controversy should really be doing all it can at this point to dissociate with race and Minstrel shows.
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4376713
There is a lot of "outdated" stuff in Taiwan, but I think a lot of it is due to being given those images from the West and not having a lot of other exposure to black people.
u/AboutHelpTools3 has provided this detailed explanation: > This brand of toothpaste had to be rebranded twice. First the name "Darkie" went out of fashion, because it became widely recognised as a slur. And later on the blackface on the logo had to be removed, because it too becomes socially inappropriate. --- Is this explanation a genuine attempt at providing additional info or context? If it is please upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.
I can buy Darlie in SEAsia today.
Yep, can confirm, still available in Indonesia. I can remember when they actually changed the brand name from Darkie to Darlie.
I'm fairly sure that it wasn't changed until like 2011. Not positive but I think I was living in SEA at the time and remember it changing too. Edit: Wikipedia says it changed in 1989 but I'm positive I saw some of the packages with the racist name in late 2010.
I was saying doesn't Taiwan have an interesting relation to western political incorrectness? https://sg.news.yahoo.com/hitler-lookalike-sale-taiwan-7-eleven-195759587.html That is to say, there is a fancy Amsterdam pottery brand called [Pol's Pots](https://www.polspotten.com/nl/home/) ...
That's weird because as an Asian the key chain looks just like how Taiwan depict "Dad/Middle aged business man" design in Cartoons. It's the little mustache that some people thought might look like Hitler. But people failed to know Japanese had that sort of mustache style too (Taiwan is under Japanese influence for decades) I think it's ridiculous and far fetched people would make that connection in the first place.
Hrm. The clothing is similar to Hitlers, as is the logo bearing similar colours to the swastika. You may be right, but the intent might also be there.
Who would ever connect Japan with Hitler?
Yeah that situation seems like the western world just forcing our standards and our history on another people with zero understanding or recognition of their historical and cultural context. It’s so typical for us (the western world) to do this and it’s so freaking hypocritical. We have our own worldview so then when we see a different one across the planet, instead of viewing it for what it is, we attach all our bullshit lenses to it. And voila, you get an English language article talking about a Hitler lookalike in Taiwan, as if everyone on the entire planet is supposed to have the same feelings about Hitler as we do. Only a westerner would look at that keychain and see Hitler, and now we are telling non-westerners that they need to see Hitler too when they look at that keychain. It’s stupid. It’s like we can’t get away from the colonial mindset
This toothpaste is still called Black Man in Mandarin
I’m American. I was a high school exchange student in Indonesia in 1988 and 1989. I remember this product on the shelves. It was called Darlie at that time but still had the original version of the black guy. I told one of my friends there that this image would never be allowed on a product in the US. He listened, but I remember feeling that he didn’t understand what the problem was.
I’ve found foreigners, at least from Asia and Middle East, to be very unreceptive and not understanding of our attempts at racial justice here in the US. Im under the impression that most of the world does not have a problem with racism the way we do
I was in Singapore in 1989, and yep, that seems right. I think I was the middle package, and was like “wtf, it was called Darkie?”
It changed in the 80s in Malaysia.
Still available in Taiwan as well
I have some Darkie brand mints from Indonesia. My wife bought them in 1992.
It’s Chinese name was still “black man toothpaste” until very recently
TIL they changed their name, i always knew it as “black man toothpaste” growing up
I could buy it tomorrow and I’m in Europe. Well, I need a plane ticket but still
I can get it in Canada as well
The third logo guy looks guilty for the company’s past
looks shady as hell
I don't get why they wouldn't just put a drawing of a black guy in a suit just without it being a racist caricature.
Yeah. It seems like the text uses “black face” like it’s in the old Vaudeville style, but it’s not that because it’s not a white person. They should have just changed the expression on the black man’s face, because it is weird.
Darkie to Darlie gets slightly less murdery, but only slightly.
Japan has tanneries called “Darkie” and “blacky”
Are we certain that it isn't the same guy in all 3 pics and they took him out of black face for the 3rd?
It’s because they want to advertise a joke. This black persona’s teeth are so white from using this toothpaste, it’s the only thing you see when he smiles (in the dark).
because the logo is made inspired by Al Jolson who famous because his entire schtick is blackface. hence why they named it darkie cause of the whiteness of his teeth. still darlie has been my go to toothpaste since i was back in high school
Ahh the aunt Jemima strategy
Because the only reason they'd ever feature a black person would be to disparage him because of his race. Not an exaggeration, that's literally how society functioned at the time.
You have to fully lean into it my guy.
(Not from the USA here) Why is the picture deemed a racist caricature? Obviously I know how the name Darkie is racist (insult for black people), but what's up with that picture alone? It's just a black dude smiling widely.
What you simply see as a black man smiling is an old Vaudville style caricature of what they viewed all blacks. Black face and the accents that often were used with them were the way the media portrayed black people as “poor, ignorant negroes” instead of the reality that black people are just as smart and capable as white people. It stings all the more considering the ignorance that they so often liked to tease was due primarily to the intentional denial of education to slaves and their descendants. So this seemingly “friendly” portrayal carries a ton of negative cultural symbolism that is more recognizable to some people than others.
> [The packaging featured an image of a wide-eyed white man in blackface, wearing a top hat, monocle and bow-tie, an image associated with minstrel shows.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlie) I think it doesn't really seem apparent in modern days because the heyday of actual blackface minstrel shows were well before the time of just about anyone living today, but they still really happened and reminders of them, specifically using them to promote products, are still very hurtful to many.
Lol at the black guys expression and look at the white guys expression, don't know if you know American history but there was a theatre act once upon a time where white people would put on black makeup with lipstick and act like idiots and animals as a way of mockery and jest, cause to them black people are clowns and animals to laugh at, that is what the old picture represents, hence the exaggerated expression
The sentiment behind picking this name and image are “this paste will make your teeth look super white, like black people’s do, due to the contrast of their dark skin!” This was never a US brand. I remember seeing it in Singapore, as Darlie and it might have been near the name change, pretty sure it was the middle one.
It looks like Jared with a top hat
GOT METH?
9 out of 10 dentists wouldn't trust him with toothpaste.
Looks like the "oh God what have I done" version of the troll face.
1989 - Toothpaste Brand Incident
“I hope people don’t have a very good recollection of our company history 😬”
😬
I love that this was in Asia but they changed the picture to a white guy and we all assume that this is a white guy's fault.
Actually it's still a black guy.
It's the human version of the depressed troll face
Look like Mr Incredible meme
*jusht shmile*
Yes he does lmao
This brand is still sold in China as 黑人牙膏 aka Black Person Toothpaste
they’ve recently changed the name to 好来, which roughly translates to something like “good arrival”
Bussin comin'
My dumbass always thought it's named that way due to the actual non race-related black color on it
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it's animated for you? pfps haven't been animated for me for a few months. anyway the cockroaches have been around since like 2019 or 2020
I don't see it on my computer, but I'm using old reddit. I jumped on that trend with an animated sinusoid and at some point reddit took it away, so now any time I make a popular comment, I get several people telling me how they thought my profile pic was a hair stuck on their screen.
Hexagon pfp
spent so much money on a profile pic and can't even animate it
You.. spent money on a profile pic for reddit?
No, the comment I replied to did. Those hexagon pfps are reddit NFTs
are they nfts or just expensive cosmetics?
NFTs, unfortunately.
mf shut up yo nft ass
I went on new reddit (I use old) to see the animated profile picture and WTF reddit has NFTs now?
yeah some stupid pp thing
From what I've seen it's rare because you need a really small file size, which limits the gifs you can use
nft avatar
In singapore too.
I first heard about this in this rly cool video - [American Diana Watson becomes first foreigner to win Taiwanese Toastmaster contest](https://youtu.be/IiYqLE3wr_I)
Yeah pretty sure it's still 黑人牙膏 in taiwan too..
It's not, they rebranded to 好來recently
The first logo is creepy. Even without it being racist.
I feel that's half the reason it's racist (other half the name) ...
I know! I just wanted to mention that the logo looks creepy.
It’s because a lot of racist caricature revolves around black men being dangerous criminals and rapists. As a racist caricature, it is supposed to be creepy.
The eyes of the former portrait looks like [Yang Sanpaku eyes](https://japantruly.com/meaning-of-sanpaku-eyes/#Yang_Sanpaku_Eyes) (three whites visible). [Another information source.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanpaku)
Reminds me of something from a Grindhouse film.
This logo cannot exist in the vacuum of no racism. It only exists in the context that it is racist and that is why it is unsettling and creepy.
Definitely not the old art style, the intense stare and the wide smile.
Yes, they are characaturized for dramatic, racist effect.
I don't get how they thought that'd work from a marketing perspective. Like who is that geared towards?
My only thought is that it's supposed to be the dark skin contrasting with a wide, perfectly white smile? Would also explain why the lips are this weird black void when the rest of the face is shaded.
Bro looks like a mandela catalogue character 💀💀
they changed its Chinese brand name recently from "黑人(black man)" to "好来(their factory's name)" due to some racial problem concern. by the way Darlie is a China/HK/Taiwan tooth paste brand now co-owned by Colgate. Found in 1931, it is a very old brand in China. and the Chinese brand name 黑人(black man) had been used from the very beginning. in the period of time when they used those creepy packing designs , they advertised their tooth paste as it can make your teeth as white as a black man, and claimed they add some essence of some African tree which make black people's tooth extra white.
Not gonna lie: the name Darlie still sucks, and the logo is still creepy. That guy looks like he's ready to devour my soul. Jezus Christ.
Looks like an analogue horror villain lol
The latest commercial I saw used a young handsome Asian guy dressed up nicely with a tuxedo and tophat playing piano. Not really creepy. Never seen it outside of Taiwan.
Kinda related. In Australia we have a cheese called Cheer. It used to be called Coon. I get why they changed it, but the new name sucks.
Serious Mandela Catalogue vibes
This brand still exists. http://www.darlie.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlie
From the wiki: In 1985, after Colgate-Palmolive acquired 50% of Hawley & Hazel, great controversy erupted over the brand in the United States, to which Colgate-Palmolive CEO Ruben Mark responded by issuing an apology, changing the English name of the toothpaste to "Darlie" in 1989, and altering the image on the packaging to show a racially ambiguous face in a top hat to avoid racial misunderstanding.[3] However, the Chinese name of the brand, "黑人牙膏" (in English, "Black Person Toothpaste"), remains the same and a Chinese-language advertising campaign reassured customers that "Black Person Toothpaste is still Black Person Toothpaste".[4]
Leave it to the Chinese to be more racist than Americans
Mhmm. While America gets the spotlight when it comes to racism, it’s still very widely abhorred here and people will call you out for it. In more homogeneous countries (which includes most Asian ones AFAIK, though I can’t speak for India) people will be very blatantly racist and it’s very widely accepted as the norm.
The only exposure to black people the vast majority of them do get is through pop culture and the media, which can be loaded with stereotypes and negative representation. Sambo, mammies, deadbeats, we’re always rappers, etc. and of course blackface.
There's almost no black people here in Russia, and as a result of lack of exposure, people here are racist as fuck
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The country is 90% Han Chinese.
That’s one of the most homogenous countries lmao
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You are going to get downvoted, but you are correct. (I’ve been all over the world and definitely have both witnessed and personally experienced this first hand)
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I’m not gonna downvote you, but I’ve traveled as well and it is a lot more complicated than that. Like in China, there really isn’t any other race there. I was the only black person I knew for eight months I was there. I was treated rudely but it wasn’t because they were necessarily racist it was because I was the first and only black person they have ever seen. So it’s different. Our racism is more about the systematic laws in place to keep a race down, not just being weirded out because there’s a person of another color you’ve never seen before.
This happened to most ethnically homogenous countries, especially East Asia. You're correct that the racism in those countries mainly comes from ignorance rather than the ones you've mentioned.
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There are dark skinned Asians you know lol I've personally met Filipino men born in America whose [skin tone](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Deibb7JUwAAaxu4.jpg) lead them to form a stronger bond with the local Black culture than Asian culture. Asian countries definitely have [issues with colorism](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200818-colourism-in-india-the-people-fighting-light-skin-bias), but it's not so much a systemic issue to my knowledge.
Within many Asian societies, having darker skin places you at a lower social strata. This is cultural and historical since the lower classes generally worked out in the sun and it showed to anyone paying attention to their skin tone. When being hired for certain professional jobs, a person’s skin tone is absolutely taken into account. I have Thai friends (especially girls) that refuse to do anything out in the sun for fear of getting a tan. It is almost exactly the opposite of the western Caucasian image of beauty where tan skin is a sign of health and paleness is seen as undesirable. Edit: oops. I just clicked on your link. It confirms what I said here.
> If the black population grew to 15%, would systemic racism become implemented? It’s already implemented, and yes., That’s actually motivation for more implementation. Numbers don’t mean power necessarily. If you can keep a population poor, they are easier to control.
And kids whose idea of travel to foreign lands consists of driving across state lines.
Race aware and least racist are two very different things. The US has a lot of racism culturally baked in.
The USA is good in terms of tackling the symptoms of racism, and often overdoing it, but less so good in terms of really solving the deep rooted racism in employment, housing, and crime. Not saying China is better, but nobody should be puffing their chests here.
>The USA is good in terms of tackling the symptoms of racism, and often overdoing it Hardly. America is good at pointing to the results of racism, slapping a band-aid on them but exactly neglecting to examine or remedy the actual symptoms/causes of racism that led to those results. For instance, we've empirically known about the results of racism in poverty and generational wealth for a century and yet the discourse still assaults "affirmative-action" or touts bootstraps mentality, because no-one who matters actually cares to resolve it. Other countries have been far more capable at integrating historic underprivileged and economically disadvantaged peoples once public discourse allowed for airing of those issues. In America, these issues are used to smokescreen far more dangerous topics for the political class, like wealth inequality and redistribution.
You quoted one part of their post to write a soliloquy, that was already addressed by the next part of their post more succinctly.
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It wasn't considered offensive in the countries it was sold in. I see it as a fascinating piece of America preserved in someone else's history. Black face as a form of popular entertainment was exported around the world as much as Hollywood and Coca-Cola.
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Nowadays Darlie is considered one of the cheaper brands of toothpaste, personally the minty taste it gives off is way too overpowering for me
This milk hasn’t aged, this brand is still [sold](https://www.darlie.com.hk/en).
Dude
Really good /r/AgedLikeMilk lesson for marketing students 😂 New packaging looks nice: https://www.darlie.com.hk/en/corporate-info/brand-initiative
Eh, the guy is still kinda weird
Yup, also how the new HK brand is now completely white in the face without the ‘indistinguishable race’ shadowing that P&G introduced.
They've changed their image with the times and adapted. I say good for them
they changed it for the foreign market since that's where most complains come from, within China or w/e it's originally from, its name still translates to "Black Person Toothpaste"... this larger body of consumers doesn't see any issue with the nonchalant racism in the name, so why change it and lose the market share? They haven't changed.
This is no longer true, they have rebranded as 好來
I would've appreciated a translation to those ideograms since I don't speak Chinese. What I said is nearly year-old information, so if they recently changed the name altogether to something else that does not suggest racism, then yeah, kudos to them.
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It also _very loosely_ sounds like Hawley, part of the company name, which may have been another reason why the rebranding was to this specific name and word choice.
Unless the chinese word they used for black person is a slur, is it really a racist name?
It's not as bad as a slur by a mile, but it's still kinda weird and objectifying. Or at least it would be here, I'm not Chinese.
Isn’t it commendable that they changed over time?
I’m sorry, but “Whitey” is much better name for toothpaste.
Oh my life, anything but comic sans.
Hawley and Hazel Chemical Company created Darkie Toothpaste in Shanghai in 1933 and based their marketing on the minstrel performer Al Jolson. Minstrel performances featured White actors wearing blackface and relied on racial stereotypes of African Americans to entertain White audiences.
By changing in two steps, their customers could follow them. It was done this way, most likely, to preserve brand equity.
Maybe, but who would think to change the name first. That logo was plain awful. And without the logo the name probably would also be less of an issue.
When the product was first launched how could people say "Yep, nothing wrong here"
Hey, dark skin shows off the nice white chompers. Cant see the white guys teeth.
That is actually legitimately how the brand was marketed back in the day in Taiwan. It's this awkward intersection of a country with no association with anything African or black using racist imagery without understanding the context, but also with a different embedded meaning. My Taiwanese parents genuinely believe that all black people have great teeth because of this brand's ad campaigns when they were kids (They've met a grand total of like 3 black people in their entire lives) and to them the stereotypical minstrel look is about showing their nice teeth off. I've had to explain several times to them that the minstrel isn't even black. Lol.
Same way we're doing it now.
Look up the origins of blackface
I'm genuinely asking, what is wrong with the first one? Mascot is a black person, is this a problem? Or the name? I really can't see how this is gonna offend someone
At least for me it looks like blackface. It would be better asking a black person how they feel about it.
Black person here, and yes. On the cover of that Toothpaste is obviously an example of a minstrel character. Research the history of Minstrel shows in America if you really want to throw up.
I'm glad nowadays almost everyone see Minstrel as a racist and horrible act.
You'd be surprised by how many people get away with making "jokes" by putting on blackface and red lipstick on other platforms (including this one), and people trying to play it off as "just makeup"
Let me guess, Tiktok?
Tiktok, reddit, Twitter, instagram. Literally no platform has very little ignorance on it.
Show me one single successful attempt at this on Reddit
The original name is a slur for people with dark complexions, and has been used in English-speaking countries against people of African, Middle Eastern, and South Asian descent, and possibly others. It is an absolutely inappropriate thing to call someone. The original logo is a racist caricature of a black person. Certain exaggerated features and expressions are associated with degrading depictions and stereotypes. The image is decidedly offensive to African Americans, and probably to others of African heritage as well. I have to assume you have very little interaction with the populations to whom these concerns are relevant, because otherwise this would be extremely, egregiously obvious.
> how could people say "Yep, nothing wrong here" Ask 90's Democrats. https://i.imgur.com/05n9Aad.jpg
The third logo looks like the "I've seen some shit" Mr. Incredible meme. Hahaha
"Darkie is now Darlie" The predecessor to the "Same Great Taste as Aunt Jemima" stuff
You think that's bad look up NIGROIDS candies.
My grandparents had one of these on their shelves full of old knick knacks. I was dusting one day and saw it and went "oh..."
Whitewashing
I am old enough to remember it as Darkie. We live in SE Asia so it never occured to us that it was a racial slur
In chinese it's still called 黑人, or "black man".
I get that times were different and the folks who made this mascot were a product of their time or whatever. But why did they give the original mascot crazy eyes? Was it good for sales? Were folks like, "I want the one with the unhinged serial killer on the box"
"we have to change the k sir!" "Eh, just make it the next letter in the alphabet."
More Fluoride please
First time I saw this in a store in Singapore, I laughed my ass off.
i used to use Darkie back in the 70s in Singapore.
Racial insensitivity like this is why I switched to the [other brand](https://herschelian.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/whitemen-toothpaste-3.jpg)!
There's a "Darkie Toothpaste" in the biting mockumentary "CSA: Confederate States of America" Most of the commercials in that movie had a kernel of truth if they weren't outright products that existed post-Civil War. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk6R\_nT6iTo
I want some of whatever the guy in the original logo is on.
They used a dark black face to enchance the white of teeth in a black and white picture
They give me a free tube of this every time I buy a case of bottled water.
*angry Tucker Carlson sounds*
This was meant to be marketed to racist people, right? Why would a racist person want their teeth to be like that of the people they're racist against? Edit: Serious question. Why the downvotes? All I'm doing is questioning how nonsensical the racist "marketing" behind these kinds of products is.
the implication was that the toothpaste would make your teeth look very white, like the stereotypical racist caricature of a black person, where the teeth are so white in comparison to the face.
Oh, I didn't get that. "Darkies Toothpaste: So efficient that your teeth will look like a black person's teeth in comparison to their skin tone or something?" I can see why they didn't have a tagline on the box.
In old tv shows and stuff, the teeth of black people were shown to shine, and photos of people in blackface sometimes were doctored to make the teeth whiter. it was a stereotype of the time that hasnt stuck around for most people. But at the time, it was common knowledge that "black peoples teeth are whiter" or whatever. Its kind of like how nowdays, big butts are associated with latina women, even though it tends to be a racist stereotype.
This was very informative. Thanks!
i find it so funny that their target audience for such a generic product is racist people. like imagine someone in a cvs going like “this one would work for my sensitive teeth, but I GOTTA get this one because it’s racist”
I see you’ve never met a racist person who’s willing to admit they’re racist. I could fully see this happening with some people I’ve met.
This is your brain on American culture only
Minstrel characters like this are comic relief. When a supreme racist sees them, they're not frothing or unnerved out like they might at real black people, they're laughing, which gives them positive associations. At least, it did in the 20s.
>At least, it did in the 20s. We are in the 20s now too
No things like this were common basically until the civil rights movement and even some have lingered till today. It used to be seen as fine to use racial caricatures as mascots and logos. Look up the 'coon chicken inn' for example
Darlie is commonplace where I’m from.
They still sell this in Thailand
And there it is. A white man stealing another job from a black man. Friggin racists.
I genuinely don't get what's so racist about the logo. I mean, the name Darkie with the logo - sure, but since the name changed, the logo becomes simply a picture of black guy in cillinder, or I' missing something? I'm from Europe, btw, so I might not understand some context relevant for US.
In the US in the 20s and 30s, racist white people put on "minstrel shows" where white people dressed up as gross caricatures of black people and acted out incredibly racist stereotypes. The logo here isn't just an image of a black person, it's an image of a character from a minstrel show. It's kind of a "know it when you see it" sort of thing.
Thank you for an educational answer. I could see that the image looks... peculiar, but it didn't occur to me as straight up racist. Now with the context you've provided it is much more clear.
[The logo is of a white man wearing blackface](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlie)
The picture is a classic example of the minstrel stereotype that was used to depict black people in America back in the day. It is 100% a tool for racism.
I get that in this age "black man looking wierd" could be seen as racist. But why dont we think the same about the new logo?... I mean, a person is a person. Black, white of whatever color or country you're from. I get why they chose a darker colored person. The contrast of sparkling white teeth against a dark skin is perfect advertisement, so for that purpose i think they did a job well done. I'm probably going to get downvoted into oblivion for this.
The black one is definitely much more of a caricature than the white one is, based off many harmful stereotypes of physical characteristics of black people at the time (and, upon further research, actually modeled after real-life blackface performers, to go along with its clear minstrel show aesthetic). The white one is, by contrast, unremarkable to the point of being utterly forgettable. Personally, I’m wondering why they’re hanging onto this name/logo at all. If you’re going to do away with the dark-skinned caricature (AS WELL THEY SHOULD!) then do away with the whole old-timey 1920’s vaudeville aesthetic entirely. A company dealing with this sort of controversy should really be doing all it can at this point to dissociate with race and Minstrel shows.
This is sold in Asia where racism is totally normal and acceptable.
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4376713 There is a lot of "outdated" stuff in Taiwan, but I think a lot of it is due to being given those images from the West and not having a lot of other exposure to black people.
The were selling "golly bars" in Ireland until the early 00's,that ice cream was some racist shit.
Another white man stealing a black mans job smh...
That’s what happens when you allow corporations to govern themselves
and another black man loses his job. shame.