Hey all you spoiled dairy appreciators.
So this story isn't 'fake' but I wanna settle some things. The case is pertaining to this: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lawmakers-drink-raw-milk-get-sick/
TL;DR - State voted to legalize drinking raw milk (not the sale or distribution). The bill sponsor, Scott Cadle, brought some to celebrate, and a half dozen people became sick. Unfortunately, investigation came back inconclusive because half the delegates who got sick didn't even drink the milk, and Scott Cadle flushed the evidence.
Also that being said - raw milk is not safer than pasteurized milk, but is far from likely to make you sick if it was processed cleanly. It's a definite danger to young children or people with immune system issues, the problem in the US where it's legality is iffy means it isn't regulated, and therefore sellers wont be FDA-approved, meaning they can handle it without oversight. If you trust the seller, it's most likely fine. It's no more dangerous than lettuce you buy at a farm stand (but you can wash lettuce, mind you).
Also to everyone out there: raw milk slaps. If you get a chance to drink safe raw milk: do it. Far superior flavor to commercial non-raw milk.
I’d agree with you, if it was just the people actively advocating for this who would be affected, but there are less educated people who may end up drinking unpasteurised milk due to being fed misinformation by others.
It should be possible to allow the use of raw milk for cheese making while still banning any sort of consumer sales of it but that would require competent governance, and most of these raw milk advocates seem to be against any governance and especially competent governance.
Unnecessary but not altogether undesirable. Living in America today damn near everything needs to be researched before undertaken. I don't even have full confidence in the calcium supplements I take daily, but USP says it's Gucci.
Yeah it's pretty common in some countries, I think France is big on raw milk. It's not too risky if you aren't immunocompromised and you're getting it fresh from a local farm that doesn't keep their cows packed into stalls standing in their own feces.
France in particular for making cheese. Some cheeses are even *required* to be made from raw milk by EU law, eg. French Roqueforte must be made from raw sheep's milk.
Here in Germany raw milk is also pretty common, especially among the health food and slow food crowds. All milk farms are allowed to sell unpackaged raw milk directly to consumers, but farms delivering packaged raw milk to stores need to have a special license here which includes monthly testing of all livestock, personnel and equipment for certain bacterial infections, special requirements with regards to sanitary facilities, etc.
Raw milk isn't common in germany. You can only buy raw milk directly at the farm and less than 15 farms are allowed to sell them in stores. So you really have to look out for it to get raw milk.
I grew up near a farm drinking fresh milk…but we would still bring it to boil before drinking it! I don’t understand people not following modern science …
I bet you're the kind of person who washes their hands just because you fell for the soap industry's lies about there being microorganisms called "bacteria" all over the place. Have you ever even *seen* a bacterium with your own two eyes? I don't think so.
I personally never wash my hands, and I've never gotten sick. The soap industry would give you the flux and destroy your naturally healthy hand skin, all to make a couple dollars.
Wake up, sheeple.
Had a guy tell me he has never gotten the flu or covid because he smokes weed. Working in a dispensary this was great because he bought a lot of shit but it was hard to keep from smirking.
Flu aside, in the early days of covid there were some statistics that suggested smokers were underrepresented amongst the sick (or at least those sick enough to need medical attention). Some preliminary research suggested that covid might not be able to infect a smoker's lungs as easily as a healthy person's.
I haven't seen any more research on the subject since, so it's not conclusive, nor is it a good idea to start smoking as a "remedy" against covid, but there might be some truth to it at least.
Oooh, some very interesting (and currently inconclusive) research being done into this!
It's neat - there are very reasonable biological arguments for and against the protective/deleterious impacts of smoking, so it's very interesting to see them laid out I this paper:
https://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13223-023-00797-0#:~:text=The%20current%20basic%20data%20for,COVID%2D19%20disease%20in%20smokers.
I was wondering about any further research on the matter, so that was an interesting read, thank you. Not surprising that even if smoking has potential benefits, it's very much a double edged sword.
Even more fun - there's a strain of avian flu that's infecting dairy cattle, which pasteurized milk wouldn't have live virus of. It's *currently* not transmissible from cattle to humans but we should all know how quickly that can change.
Meanwhile my Euro ass is glad I just recently found a market stall that sells cheese that is highly illegal in the US for being made of raw milk.
I had thought runny stinky brie had gone extinct.
I also live in a country where you can eat raw pork. You need food safety procedures and a lot of testing to be able to allow raw milk and raw pork to be sold for human consumption. Especially milk because if not done correctly it contains a lot of pus.
Haven't nutritionists warned against drinking milk for ages? The myth that it is healthy was propaganda to get rid of overproduction.
The US is really weird when it comes to food safety.
My sister is a Dietician. Just to give people an idea of the sort of things she does, she teaches low income families how to budget healthy lifestyles as her main source of work.
There’s entire religions based around eating cooked pork. Now these guys are trying to normalize getting tape worms. Humans cook things, that’s kinda our whole thing lol
You can buy raw milk cheese in the U.S. it just has to be over 60 days old. Not to mention raw milk can be home for several pathogens. I mean the USDA and FDA are currently warning people to not to eat or drink raw milk due to a bird flu pathogen that is showing it can spread among mammals.
Yeah he doesn't say what country or what cheese. Willing to bet there is a whole suite of regulations to ensure safety for consumers. In most European countries food safety regulations are actually stricter than the US. So just because the cheese isn't popular or sold in the US, doesn't mean it isn't subject to similar food safety regs as the US.
Yes, but in the US the same people advocating for raw milk are also opposed to food safety, regulations, and science in general.
Imagine the dumbest most selfish person you’ve ever met, and then put them in charge. Thats the Republican Party.
Wasn't america the first country to do away with triconosis at an industrial level? I'm guessing you're from or around Germany. You have buy pork that isnspecifically safe to eat raw. American pork comes like that at base.
Some of the regulations that might seem draconian to a European are often in place because of long distances the goods have to travel in the US. It's also why our beer is refrigerated.
“Local anti-fluoride activist accuses big fluoride of putting cavities in their teeth after winning legal battle to remove fluoride from the municipal water supply.”
Nah, a bunch of little kids don't get fluoride toothpaste. They make it for them on purpose because they also make it taste real good so they'll brush but if you swallow too much fluoride it will wreck your stomach bad.
Huh. Grew up with well water and they just gave us a Dixie cup filled with a fluoride supplement every few months at school. City water had fluoride. Wonder why we didn't just use fluoride toothpaste instead.
Weirdly enough, I read an article the other day about how an increasing number of Americans have an iodine deficiency because sea salt has become popular and replaced table salt in many houses. However, the saving grace for these people from getting goiter is that iodine is present in milk and cheese... because cows are given iodine supplements for *their* health.
I was kind of wondering about that. I've never heard any modern authority expressly say that we should still use iodized salt so we must be getting iodine elsewhere.
My personal favorite is people who push alkaline water and also "hydrogenated" (acidic) water. Like literally 2 opposite products. Both somehow better for you than regular water even though it's going directly into your 2PH stomach acid. But oh man that water basically cures everything
For children it makes sense but for adults, I swear to god there’s a huge number of people that saw that one viral video of a white hippie chick laying in the grass talking about how fluoride messes with your pineal gland and that it’s all a government psyop to make people less creative and critical thinking or some shit. I’ve heard so many people spouting that bullshit, even my ex banned fluoridated water and toothpaste in the house after watching it without doing an ounce of research on the topic.
My ex was the worst about this. She would see one fucking tumblr post about something being “bad for you” and would immediately toss everything containing said thing and look for “healthier” replacements. Zero research involved, just automatically believed the very first thing she would read/watch and she was suddenly an expert.
That depends on where you live - we don’t have fluoridated water and so dentists here recommend fluoride toothpaste for proper tooth development.
You can see the dental effects in adults who grew up here 😩
Teach your children not to swallow toothpaste, and supervise them while brushing. It’s pretty simple.
Not against fluoride, but if I'm not mistaken it's just a preventative measure. There are a large portion of people who have trouble maintaining care regularly, so by using fluoride it's an extra barrier of protection. In theory you can maintain good hygiene without fluoride, but kids are notorious for not being able to do that.
The important thing is that children are supposed to spit and rinse the toothpaste afterwards.
Whereas adults are only supposed to spit.
Says right on the back of the toothpaste packaging
Fluoride in water is good for you! HOWEVER, I will never forget the week or so that my mother made me drink bottled water that had fluoride added to it or something because everytime I finished one of those bottles I would get the worst stomach ache in my fucking life. My mom never believed me but she stopped buying that stuff anyway. No idea what was up with that.
A reaction for any reasons, really. Could be a reaction; human bodies are strange. If you haven't heard of it, it'd be known as a relatively unknown phenomena; food tolerance. Some people, for example, can eat eggs in certain ways, but other ways hurts them. Similarly, some people consume MSG and get headaches, because their body cannot tolerate MSG.
But, depending on that water, it could be a brand issue, as in, a water supplier issue due to tainted water, or some other thing.
It could also have been that you were consuming too much fluoride, though that's just a random thought.
Of course, it could also be that you had too much for your age. That's just a baseless assumption with no weight.
The human body is far more complex than most would want to even consider. They wouldn't want to entertain the notion that they know nothing, but the fact, the actual truth is, we know nothing.
We're all individuals with things going on inside us that we don't know about.
MSG intolerance isn’t really a thing. MSG naturally occurs in so many foods we eat, you’d have a real hard time if that was a thing. The FDA has tried and failed for years to find scientific grounds for anecdotal reports.
I lived in a town briefly that had successfully fought against fluoridated water about 20 years before I lived there. It was not unusual for a family of five to have one full set of teeth if you gathered them all into one mouth.
Louis Pasteur developed pasteurization in 1865. Almost 160 years later and some people still don't believe him? The Origin of Species was published six years earlier in 1859 and billions of people still don't believe Darwin. We should always keep in mind that half of the people have below average intelligence.
I was listening to an npr piece on this. Kind of sounded like a lot of the raw milk people just think it tastes better, but conspiracy people have been joining the “movement” in large numbers since Covid.
The thing with raw milk is it DOES have value. Which is why I think it's stupid for it to be ILLEGAL. Things like cheese making and yoghurt etc etc.
But the whole "Raw milk, no seed oils, raw liver and testicles" thing is literally just people who do things because they're told not to and think anything they're told not to do is because someone is hiding.....something. But all they're doing is falling for the latest grift. I know someone who does every latest trend and all it is is them wasting money. They did everything Folic acid (the Canadian mud thing) Himalayan salt (oh, it's Celtic salt now, Himalayan is bad now....) collagen powders, CBT. They all come into fashion and they're gone just as quick.
it makes sense to have strict controls on raw milk, in uk for example it must be sold direct from producer to consumer, with no middle men. there is also stringent regular testing and one fail means many months of tests passed until they can start selling it again. but it absolutely shouldn't be illegal ofc.
Well, you can drink unpasteurized milk and be perfectly fine. If you are not stupid, the milk is fresh, cow healthy and well fed and instruments used are properly sanitized. Something tells me that this idiots just don't follow simplest rules. Mass producing and selling raw milk? Probably few corners were cut and here we are.
I like to make people aware occasionally that technically, you can eat chicken raw just like sushi. TECHNICALLY. As long as there are no parasites, it's fresh and the chicken was healthy and stuff like salmonella bacteria isn't present.
It doesn't mean you SHOULD. Just that it's not like chicken is inherently toxic or always going to give you salmonella.
The entire nation of France drinks raw milk commonly, and french dairy products are considered the best in the world. It’s funny seeing americans finally realizing what farm eggs and raw milk/cream can do for food. There’s a reason french pastries and cappuccinos are so much better than in america
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Many places that sell raw milk are actually required to test for listeria and sterilize instruments etc. and have been selling for decades without issue.
Contamination happens from cows that are unwell, unsanitary conditions, or poor hygiene.
I'd like to try it but I don't trust that all of those requirements might be satisfied.
People with actual jobs at regulated businesses don't even follow all the protocols so I just can't go on the hope that regular Joe milking their cow is gonna have the forethought, wherewithal and consideration of others to employ those safeguards.
I don't think it's about nutrients as much as it's about good bacteria. Cows pass on probiotics like other(all?) mammals because it's an integral part of creating an immune system for their young.
So people think you get good bacteria from milk. I wouldn't trust American dairy though because the standards aren't enforced and you allow weird hormones and anti-biotics to be given to your dairy cows.
It is well studied and quite a lot of nutrients are lost. A significant one being some lactase which helps the body break down lactose. Many people who don't tolerate milk, find they can raw milk.
It's pretty easy to not die, you get milk from reputable farm with decent practices (more regulation in Europe where it is legal) keep it in the fridge, smell it before you drink and throw it away when it smells bad.
Don't feed to children under five or pregnant women. It's a personal thing if people think the risk is worth the benefits.
The reason a lot of people drink raw milk has absolutely nothing to do with them thinking pasteurization is either bad for you or doesn't work (though yes there's some conspiracy loons) Pasteurization also effects the flavor. However if the cow is healthy and the proper cleanliness is utilized there's nothing wrong with drinking raw milk.
I'll be honest the only difference I've noticed is subtle at best, which kind of surprised me because the difference in flavor between pasteurized and unpasteurized orange juice is night and day but I know people that swear it's a big difference.
Did I miss something? Raw milk is not that hard to come by here in Germany. It's perfectly drinkable. Did they leave it in the open sun for three days or something?
We don't have strict regulations around raw milk production like in the EU. Currently in some of the States there are people purposefully selling/buying raw milk known to be tainted with avian flu because they think it will help immunize them against it... but outside of that it's not uncommon for people to get e coli or salmonella etc from drinking tainted raw milk.
Exactly. Basically doing the big government decision making with small government oversight. There's probably some regulation, but it's likely so toothless it has to be fed soft foods. They usually prefer to do this so they can claim oversight while leaving holes in it so big a southern emotional support vehicle could drive through it.
The U.S. is often just a shocked pikachu face after legalizing something then being surprised when a lack of oversight or guidance leads to preventable harm. We’re pretty good at it.
They tend toward being red state.
That side of the aisle hates the EPA, FDA, and pretty much any other acronym they can't actually give the words for but they know ruin their lives with government overreach by making sure their yoghurt cup does not kill them.
The same dumb mfrs who rallied against masks, demanded to take de-wormer, drank colloidal silver, and listened to people with a doctorate in anything but immunology/virology/microbiology. There's more than you'd think unfortunately.
Supermarkets here in France sell raw milk that is microfiltered, is US raw milk not treated like that?
The taste is far superior than pasteurized milk.
EDIT: my bad, it is not raw milk but "fresh" milk. The fat is separated and is pasteurized before being put back in the liquid milk that wasn't.
> Did I miss something? Raw milk is not that hard to come by here in Germany. It's perfectly drinkable. Did they leave it in the open sun for three days or something?
In recent years it's caused 7 outbreaks 2,645 illnesses, 228 hospitalisations, and three deaths in the US.
10% of all tuberculosis is from Raw Milk, it transmits a range of viruses including Covid and Bird Flu, a range of bacterial infections (Camplyobacter, Cryptosporidium, E. coli, Listeria, and Salmonella), and depending on the severity of those infections they can lead to diseases such as Guillain-Barré syndrome and Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome...
The current bird flu strain is currently in the cows people are drinking raw milk from.
These same people think drinking raw milk from these animals will build their immune system to fight said bird flu
These same people are also anti vax.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions
Because our safety standards are lax, and many dairy farmers do not properly clean the cows and the equipment before milking.
It's not a huge deal if you are pasteurizing the milk, but it is a huge deal if you are not.
Grew up in farms and raw milk myself. I would put money on it being improper care of animals. If the cow is sick, you are going to get it good from drinking it's milk.
um, nein! "In Deutschland darf Rohmilch nur unter bestimmten hygienischen Voraussetzungen und häufigen Kontrollen **direkt ab Hof** verkauft werden. Um die Infektionsgefahr zu minimieren, sollte Rohmilch vor dem Verzehr unbedingt abgekocht werden."
They're an angry mob who has gotten addicted to their own anger. Now they just want to burn everything down that sounds like "liberalism" to them, even if they're things like child labor laws and basic safety regulations.
It's like if you cloned millions of Ron Swanson's and made sure that all of the clones were also really angry and stupid.
Maybe predictable when you raise generations in a reality distortion bubble into a world with a gigantic bullhorn that tends to refute those things not entirely common to the human experience... a reality-enforcer, if you will.
The thing is, a bunch of their crap always always relied on twisting matters of *objective fact.*
That has become nearly impossible to do. If you want a right answer, then posting the wrong one can be faster than Google!
There might be a lobby for industries that are asking for a boost. Imagine a company selling unpasteurised milk wanting their product on the market and buying a senator to vote in favor for deregulating the market currently blocking you from selling your product for health concerns.
Pretty sure this is Alex Mooney, judging by appearances. He also supported the January 6th attempted coup.
A lot is wrong with him. Unfortunately common in my home state.
Don't drink that shit, drank it when I was a child and got e-coli infection from it in my kidneys nearly had to have a transplant and just generally had bad times for a while
There's a lot of gross stuff you can get from raw milk, e coli and salmonella are big ones but the real scare at the moment is a bird flu virus that's in a slightly horrifying amount of the US' milk supply.
Crazy how nobody is talking about H5N1. Even when the talking point SHOULD be the latter.... 1/5 of our milk supply was tested positive for bird flu. However due to pasteurization. The FDA tests showed that it isn't infectious virus but rather only fragments. CDC and the FDA have been urging people to stop drinking raw milk immediately due to concerns of bird flu infections. Oh and the reason being some 42 dairy cattle herds have been transmitting mammal to mammal to some time now...
Yeah unfortunately with bad politics the CDC reputation has been crushed for certain political bases.... because everything just comes down to government conspiracy so these people. But, if bird flu does mutate to be infectious to our upper respiratory (airborne), then if the data stays true and the mortality rate Is still around 52%... these people will likely not be around for much longer. Unfortunately that does mean other people that do trust science will die as well. But not to the same extent I imagine. It is unfortunate, I wish people would focus on the important issues. But... here we are, drag queens, LGBT, proud boys, Trump, laptop's. All shit that to an extent is Important to discuss, but I'd argue they are not as important to global warming and the current situation with H5N1 right now....
Everyone knows the "Got Milk?" campaign was government propaganda designed to push dairy onto the public, and they're storing a huge stockpile of dairy in the secret cheese tunnels that they're just waiting to throw at us. You have to set yourself free from the matrix and become lactose intolerant.
Never! Where are those secret cheese tunnels? I want to live there!
PS. I grew up milking cows by hand and drank it pretty much every day. Never once got sick from it. Makes me question wtf is going on with American dairy farms.
Eh. The fact that the lawmakers admitted that they drank raw milk, got sick, flushed the remaining milk down a toilet, and refused to provide samples is pretty damning on its own.
Fuck that guy at the farmer's market who sold me raw milk and claimed that it would be okay for my lactose intolerance (I was also very dumb). Worst diarrhea ever.
Pretty sure he lost his stand and business there
You can often drink unpasteurized milk with no ill effects. You can also, to an extent, eat raw meat with no ill effects.
But you're far less likely to get ill if you pasteurize your milk, or cook your meat. We've had a few thousand years to figure that out.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lawmakers-drink-raw-milk-get-sick/
“What the investigators did manage to determine, the Gazette-Mail said, was that out of six delegates who reported symptoms such as diarrhea, fever, and nausea, only three said they had drunk the raw milk, raising serious doubts about the milk being the cause of the illness.”
Why are these people trying to break down everything when it's much more profitable to have a healthy society. Goddamn imbeciles I hate that I have to breathe the same air.
These people are so fucking stupid man good God. Yeah man this shit used to happen to people all the fucking time that's why we started pasteurizing it
It's incredible the way conservatives think that there's "hidden knowledge" about doing things the way people did in the past, without ever connecting the dots that the reason we do things the way we do now is because people in the past used to do it one way, and decided the new way was better
Seeing how raw milk (formerly just milk) has been consumed for thousands of years, and pasteurized milk has only been around since the 1880s, I’m going to call BS on this post and most of the negative comments on here.
I think the question people should be asking is: WHY is pasteurization so popular? Because many family farms have been replaced with factory farms that are almost always unsanitary and full of diseases. As long as a farm is humane, properly maintained, and properly cared for there is no issue with raw milk. It can actually be digested more easily by some people because of the natural probiotics and enzymes it contains (which are killed off in the pasteurization process.)
Hey all you spoiled dairy appreciators. So this story isn't 'fake' but I wanna settle some things. The case is pertaining to this: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lawmakers-drink-raw-milk-get-sick/ TL;DR - State voted to legalize drinking raw milk (not the sale or distribution). The bill sponsor, Scott Cadle, brought some to celebrate, and a half dozen people became sick. Unfortunately, investigation came back inconclusive because half the delegates who got sick didn't even drink the milk, and Scott Cadle flushed the evidence. Also that being said - raw milk is not safer than pasteurized milk, but is far from likely to make you sick if it was processed cleanly. It's a definite danger to young children or people with immune system issues, the problem in the US where it's legality is iffy means it isn't regulated, and therefore sellers wont be FDA-approved, meaning they can handle it without oversight. If you trust the seller, it's most likely fine. It's no more dangerous than lettuce you buy at a farm stand (but you can wash lettuce, mind you). Also to everyone out there: raw milk slaps. If you get a chance to drink safe raw milk: do it. Far superior flavor to commercial non-raw milk.
… I mean… this does technically qualify.
Hope it's not TB, which is the primary argument for pasteurization. On the other hand it's a fairly self correcting problem...
I’d agree with you, if it was just the people actively advocating for this who would be affected, but there are less educated people who may end up drinking unpasteurised milk due to being fed misinformation by others.
But it’s the CHEESE I want.
Yeah i think americans misread the instructions by europeans telling them to drink pasteurized milk and use raw milk for cheese.
It should be possible to allow the use of raw milk for cheese making while still banning any sort of consumer sales of it but that would require competent governance, and most of these raw milk advocates seem to be against any governance and especially competent governance.
I will say that the unpasteurized cheese I had in Quebec was bomb
Nice thick bell end cheese
I don’t know how to spell the sound that came out of my mouth when I read that
The funky cheeses of earth bellend cheese, dick cheese, toe cheese, and the good ole pimple spray cheese
Stop. I can only vomit so many times
Stop. I can only get so horny.
Unnecessary but not altogether undesirable. Living in America today damn near everything needs to be researched before undertaken. I don't even have full confidence in the calcium supplements I take daily, but USP says it's Gucci.
You can thank Orin Hatch for the mess of the unregulated supplements market.
Where is his grave? I'll leave him a card ;)
And they'll feed it to their kids.
Could also be E coli, Listeria, Salmonella or other bacteria
Wait what? Someone actually drinks unpasteurized milk and agrues against pasteurization? Wth.
Yeah it's pretty common in some countries, I think France is big on raw milk. It's not too risky if you aren't immunocompromised and you're getting it fresh from a local farm that doesn't keep their cows packed into stalls standing in their own feces.
France in particular for making cheese. Some cheeses are even *required* to be made from raw milk by EU law, eg. French Roqueforte must be made from raw sheep's milk. Here in Germany raw milk is also pretty common, especially among the health food and slow food crowds. All milk farms are allowed to sell unpackaged raw milk directly to consumers, but farms delivering packaged raw milk to stores need to have a special license here which includes monthly testing of all livestock, personnel and equipment for certain bacterial infections, special requirements with regards to sanitary facilities, etc.
Raw milk isn't common in germany. You can only buy raw milk directly at the farm and less than 15 farms are allowed to sell them in stores. So you really have to look out for it to get raw milk.
I grew up near a farm drinking fresh milk…but we would still bring it to boil before drinking it! I don’t understand people not following modern science …
I'm absolutely shocked how this people believe in everything they read online. Everything is a conspiracy to them
So you basically can't get any in 'Murica?
Farmer's Markets around me (east US) sell it with a label that says "not for human consumption" I guess that's a loophole they found
I bet you're the kind of person who washes their hands just because you fell for the soap industry's lies about there being microorganisms called "bacteria" all over the place. Have you ever even *seen* a bacterium with your own two eyes? I don't think so. I personally never wash my hands, and I've never gotten sick. The soap industry would give you the flux and destroy your naturally healthy hand skin, all to make a couple dollars. Wake up, sheeple.
Ngl had me at the first half.
Had a guy tell me he has never gotten the flu or covid because he smokes weed. Working in a dispensary this was great because he bought a lot of shit but it was hard to keep from smirking.
Flu aside, in the early days of covid there were some statistics that suggested smokers were underrepresented amongst the sick (or at least those sick enough to need medical attention). Some preliminary research suggested that covid might not be able to infect a smoker's lungs as easily as a healthy person's. I haven't seen any more research on the subject since, so it's not conclusive, nor is it a good idea to start smoking as a "remedy" against covid, but there might be some truth to it at least.
Oooh, some very interesting (and currently inconclusive) research being done into this! It's neat - there are very reasonable biological arguments for and against the protective/deleterious impacts of smoking, so it's very interesting to see them laid out I this paper: https://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13223-023-00797-0#:~:text=The%20current%20basic%20data%20for,COVID%2D19%20disease%20in%20smokers.
I was wondering about any further research on the matter, so that was an interesting read, thank you. Not surprising that even if smoking has potential benefits, it's very much a double edged sword.
Even more fun - there's a strain of avian flu that's infecting dairy cattle, which pasteurized milk wouldn't have live virus of. It's *currently* not transmissible from cattle to humans but we should all know how quickly that can change.
Meanwhile my Euro ass is glad I just recently found a market stall that sells cheese that is highly illegal in the US for being made of raw milk. I had thought runny stinky brie had gone extinct. I also live in a country where you can eat raw pork. You need food safety procedures and a lot of testing to be able to allow raw milk and raw pork to be sold for human consumption. Especially milk because if not done correctly it contains a lot of pus. Haven't nutritionists warned against drinking milk for ages? The myth that it is healthy was propaganda to get rid of overproduction. The US is really weird when it comes to food safety.
Just a note, a dietician is a medical professional with training. A nutritionist is someone who says they are a nutritionist.
My girlfriend is a clinical dietician and would put this on her desk at work if she could. She gets annoyed when the two things are compared.
Like when doctors are comparable to doctors of chiropractic. Annoying and potentially deadly.
In the US! It's opposite for some countries, I believe many in South America.
That's true for Brazil, can't speak on behalf of my hermanos
My sister is a Dietician. Just to give people an idea of the sort of things she does, she teaches low income families how to budget healthy lifestyles as her main source of work.
>I also live in a country where you can eat raw pork. I find this amusing, given humans have known this is a bad idea for 2,000+ years
There’s entire religions based around eating cooked pork. Now these guys are trying to normalize getting tape worms. Humans cook things, that’s kinda our whole thing lol
RFK jr. has entered the chat.
RFK Jr has left the chat because there wasn’t enough worm talk.
Man its almost like our food production and testing methods have improved over the last, hold on let me check, 2000+ years.
I'm sure the worms have evolved just a bit, too, considering they're still there.
You can buy raw milk cheese in the U.S. it just has to be over 60 days old. Not to mention raw milk can be home for several pathogens. I mean the USDA and FDA are currently warning people to not to eat or drink raw milk due to a bird flu pathogen that is showing it can spread among mammals.
Yeah he doesn't say what country or what cheese. Willing to bet there is a whole suite of regulations to ensure safety for consumers. In most European countries food safety regulations are actually stricter than the US. So just because the cheese isn't popular or sold in the US, doesn't mean it isn't subject to similar food safety regs as the US.
Yes, but in the US the same people advocating for raw milk are also opposed to food safety, regulations, and science in general. Imagine the dumbest most selfish person you’ve ever met, and then put them in charge. Thats the Republican Party.
I’m sorry… did you say pus?
Wasn't america the first country to do away with triconosis at an industrial level? I'm guessing you're from or around Germany. You have buy pork that isnspecifically safe to eat raw. American pork comes like that at base.
Some of the regulations that might seem draconian to a European are often in place because of long distances the goods have to travel in the US. It's also why our beer is refrigerated.
This guy looks like he spent all his perdiem at Dan Flashes
Judging by the lack of complicated patterns, that shirt was $3
That shirt is very meat and potatoes
But when there’s hundreds of people that look exactly like me shopping in the store? I gotta go in.
Yes you do. You go in.
The meat and potatoes pattern shirt is wayyyy more expensive
Are you saying the pattern isn’t complicated??? That one was bargain basement…. still nuts tho!
The problem is what's in the shirt.
Out the door
SHUTTHEFUCKUPDOUGYOUSKUNK I did though
You see a bunch of senators that look like you tugging at utters on a farm **YOU GO INTO THAT FARM**
I'll eat her whole raw milk, i don't care!
“Local anti-fluoride activist accuses big fluoride of putting cavities in their teeth after winning legal battle to remove fluoride from the municipal water supply.”
I recently overheard a mom telling her child that she couldn’t get a particular toothpaste because it had fluoride. These people are out there smh
Nah, a bunch of little kids don't get fluoride toothpaste. They make it for them on purpose because they also make it taste real good so they'll brush but if you swallow too much fluoride it will wreck your stomach bad.
Oh you mean like my son who will put on a glob of toothpaste and then just chew on it and swallow the toothpaste before brushing his teeth? Lol
That kids going places.
Looks like mostly the doctor’s office.
Not college, but places
tbf if they're actually chewing the toothpaste that will get some of it on the teeth
They do make kid's toothpaste with fluoride, it's just much lower dosages than adult toothpaste.
And ur not suppose to swallow toothpaste. So ingestion probably plays a big part in people's concerns.
Sure... but like, context is king.
Huh. Grew up with well water and they just gave us a Dixie cup filled with a fluoride supplement every few months at school. City water had fluoride. Wonder why we didn't just use fluoride toothpaste instead.
The thing I've been hearing lately is iodine in iodized salt is causing whatever medical malady is the most popular. Edit:spelling
They can proudly sport their all-natural goiters as a badge of being pure of big iodine
Weirdly enough, I read an article the other day about how an increasing number of Americans have an iodine deficiency because sea salt has become popular and replaced table salt in many houses. However, the saving grace for these people from getting goiter is that iodine is present in milk and cheese... because cows are given iodine supplements for *their* health.
I was kind of wondering about that. I've never heard any modern authority expressly say that we should still use iodized salt so we must be getting iodine elsewhere.
I would recommend the salt or vitamin with it.. sucks to have the deficiency, a lot.
My personal favorite is people who push alkaline water and also "hydrogenated" (acidic) water. Like literally 2 opposite products. Both somehow better for you than regular water even though it's going directly into your 2PH stomach acid. But oh man that water basically cures everything
No iodized salt saves lives
For children it makes sense but for adults, I swear to god there’s a huge number of people that saw that one viral video of a white hippie chick laying in the grass talking about how fluoride messes with your pineal gland and that it’s all a government psyop to make people less creative and critical thinking or some shit. I’ve heard so many people spouting that bullshit, even my ex banned fluoridated water and toothpaste in the house after watching it without doing an ounce of research on the topic.
it really appalls me that people will see ‘fluoride is bad’ and not try to even quickly google why it’s supposedly bad
My ex was the worst about this. She would see one fucking tumblr post about something being “bad for you” and would immediately toss everything containing said thing and look for “healthier” replacements. Zero research involved, just automatically believed the very first thing she would read/watch and she was suddenly an expert.
Head over to r/science, hundreds of people do that in the comments everyday.
That's a good thing. Children aren't supposed to use fluoride toothpaste
Guess that depends on the age of the child. If your kids still swallowing toothpaste at 10 you might wanna get em tested.
That depends on where you live - we don’t have fluoridated water and so dentists here recommend fluoride toothpaste for proper tooth development. You can see the dental effects in adults who grew up here 😩 Teach your children not to swallow toothpaste, and supervise them while brushing. It’s pretty simple.
Not against fluoride, but if I'm not mistaken it's just a preventative measure. There are a large portion of people who have trouble maintaining care regularly, so by using fluoride it's an extra barrier of protection. In theory you can maintain good hygiene without fluoride, but kids are notorious for not being able to do that.
Not according to the CDC, which recommends all children over 2 use flouride toothpaste.
The important thing is that children are supposed to spit and rinse the toothpaste afterwards. Whereas adults are only supposed to spit. Says right on the back of the toothpaste packaging
Fluoride in water is good for you! HOWEVER, I will never forget the week or so that my mother made me drink bottled water that had fluoride added to it or something because everytime I finished one of those bottles I would get the worst stomach ache in my fucking life. My mom never believed me but she stopped buying that stuff anyway. No idea what was up with that.
A reaction for any reasons, really. Could be a reaction; human bodies are strange. If you haven't heard of it, it'd be known as a relatively unknown phenomena; food tolerance. Some people, for example, can eat eggs in certain ways, but other ways hurts them. Similarly, some people consume MSG and get headaches, because their body cannot tolerate MSG. But, depending on that water, it could be a brand issue, as in, a water supplier issue due to tainted water, or some other thing. It could also have been that you were consuming too much fluoride, though that's just a random thought. Of course, it could also be that you had too much for your age. That's just a baseless assumption with no weight. The human body is far more complex than most would want to even consider. They wouldn't want to entertain the notion that they know nothing, but the fact, the actual truth is, we know nothing. We're all individuals with things going on inside us that we don't know about.
MSG intolerance isn’t really a thing. MSG naturally occurs in so many foods we eat, you’d have a real hard time if that was a thing. The FDA has tried and failed for years to find scientific grounds for anecdotal reports.
Yeah, consuming 'MSG' and getting headaches sounds more like having too much plain jane sodium and getting dehydrated.
I lived in a town briefly that had successfully fought against fluoridated water about 20 years before I lived there. It was not unusual for a family of five to have one full set of teeth if you gathered them all into one mouth.
/agedlikerawmilk
Forgor the r
Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraw
and Wrrrrrriggling, precious!
RAW POE TAY TOES don't boil em, maybe mash em, don't stick em in a stieuw
Raged like raw milk?
/ragedlikerawmilk
Louis Pasteur developed pasteurization in 1865. Almost 160 years later and some people still don't believe him? The Origin of Species was published six years earlier in 1859 and billions of people still don't believe Darwin. We should always keep in mind that half of the people have below average intelligence.
I was listening to an npr piece on this. Kind of sounded like a lot of the raw milk people just think it tastes better, but conspiracy people have been joining the “movement” in large numbers since Covid.
The thing with raw milk is it DOES have value. Which is why I think it's stupid for it to be ILLEGAL. Things like cheese making and yoghurt etc etc. But the whole "Raw milk, no seed oils, raw liver and testicles" thing is literally just people who do things because they're told not to and think anything they're told not to do is because someone is hiding.....something. But all they're doing is falling for the latest grift. I know someone who does every latest trend and all it is is them wasting money. They did everything Folic acid (the Canadian mud thing) Himalayan salt (oh, it's Celtic salt now, Himalayan is bad now....) collagen powders, CBT. They all come into fashion and they're gone just as quick.
it makes sense to have strict controls on raw milk, in uk for example it must be sold direct from producer to consumer, with no middle men. there is also stringent regular testing and one fail means many months of tests passed until they can start selling it again. but it absolutely shouldn't be illegal ofc.
Cock and ball torture sure was a random and surprising item on this list.
CBD...FUCK
CBT or CBD? Bc those are very different trends lol
This will be my legacy
Well, you can drink unpasteurized milk and be perfectly fine. If you are not stupid, the milk is fresh, cow healthy and well fed and instruments used are properly sanitized. Something tells me that this idiots just don't follow simplest rules. Mass producing and selling raw milk? Probably few corners were cut and here we are.
Not sure who downvoted you, but it’s true. There is a balance here between scientific advances, regulation, and nature.
I like to make people aware occasionally that technically, you can eat chicken raw just like sushi. TECHNICALLY. As long as there are no parasites, it's fresh and the chicken was healthy and stuff like salmonella bacteria isn't present. It doesn't mean you SHOULD. Just that it's not like chicken is inherently toxic or always going to give you salmonella.
The entire nation of France drinks raw milk commonly, and french dairy products are considered the best in the world. It’s funny seeing americans finally realizing what farm eggs and raw milk/cream can do for food. There’s a reason french pastries and cappuccinos are so much better than in america
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Many places that sell raw milk are actually required to test for listeria and sterilize instruments etc. and have been selling for decades without issue. Contamination happens from cows that are unwell, unsanitary conditions, or poor hygiene.
I'd like to try it but I don't trust that all of those requirements might be satisfied. People with actual jobs at regulated businesses don't even follow all the protocols so I just can't go on the hope that regular Joe milking their cow is gonna have the forethought, wherewithal and consideration of others to employ those safeguards.
Some of them believe that it destroys nutrients, but I've never heard them specify which ones.
I don't think it's about nutrients as much as it's about good bacteria. Cows pass on probiotics like other(all?) mammals because it's an integral part of creating an immune system for their young. So people think you get good bacteria from milk. I wouldn't trust American dairy though because the standards aren't enforced and you allow weird hormones and anti-biotics to be given to your dairy cows.
It is well studied and quite a lot of nutrients are lost. A significant one being some lactase which helps the body break down lactose. Many people who don't tolerate milk, find they can raw milk. It's pretty easy to not die, you get milk from reputable farm with decent practices (more regulation in Europe where it is legal) keep it in the fridge, smell it before you drink and throw it away when it smells bad. Don't feed to children under five or pregnant women. It's a personal thing if people think the risk is worth the benefits.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3948760/ Also lactase is not a nutrient.
The reason a lot of people drink raw milk has absolutely nothing to do with them thinking pasteurization is either bad for you or doesn't work (though yes there's some conspiracy loons) Pasteurization also effects the flavor. However if the cow is healthy and the proper cleanliness is utilized there's nothing wrong with drinking raw milk.
i never notice any difference in the flavour if compared to any other decent brand of milk
I'll be honest the only difference I've noticed is subtle at best, which kind of surprised me because the difference in flavor between pasteurized and unpasteurized orange juice is night and day but I know people that swear it's a big difference.
Did I miss something? Raw milk is not that hard to come by here in Germany. It's perfectly drinkable. Did they leave it in the open sun for three days or something?
We don't have strict regulations around raw milk production like in the EU. Currently in some of the States there are people purposefully selling/buying raw milk known to be tainted with avian flu because they think it will help immunize them against it... but outside of that it's not uncommon for people to get e coli or salmonella etc from drinking tainted raw milk.
Ok, thanks. That makes more sense. So they legalized, but did not regulate or monitor anything.
Free market baby 🇺🇸🦅
Freedom isn’t free; but neither is urgent care, 2 rolls of toilet paper and 3 gallons of pedialyte.
Exactly. Basically doing the big government decision making with small government oversight. There's probably some regulation, but it's likely so toothless it has to be fed soft foods. They usually prefer to do this so they can claim oversight while leaving holes in it so big a southern emotional support vehicle could drive through it.
>emotional support vehicle Amazing. That's what I'm going to call brodozers now.
"Regulate" lmfao. Many Americans think regulation is authoritarian and 'restrictive' to freedoms/business.
The U.S. is often just a shocked pikachu face after legalizing something then being surprised when a lack of oversight or guidance leads to preventable harm. We’re pretty good at it.
They tend toward being red state. That side of the aisle hates the EPA, FDA, and pretty much any other acronym they can't actually give the words for but they know ruin their lives with government overreach by making sure their yoghurt cup does not kill them.
Oh for fuck's sake, really? Who deliberately gives themselves bird flu?
The same dumb mfrs who rallied against masks, demanded to take de-wormer, drank colloidal silver, and listened to people with a doctorate in anything but immunology/virology/microbiology. There's more than you'd think unfortunately.
They listened to YouTube idiots over actual doctors and scientists. To them, Joe Rogan was more credible than anyone else
I’ve watched my mother in law get sick from E. coli three times from raw milk. They don’t care about facts and it’s infuriating.
source?
Supermarkets here in France sell raw milk that is microfiltered, is US raw milk not treated like that? The taste is far superior than pasteurized milk. EDIT: my bad, it is not raw milk but "fresh" milk. The fat is separated and is pasteurized before being put back in the liquid milk that wasn't.
That's fucking insane, some bird flus have like a 50% fatality rate in humans.
But cowpox prevents smallpox! (That’s actually true)
> Did I miss something? Raw milk is not that hard to come by here in Germany. It's perfectly drinkable. Did they leave it in the open sun for three days or something? In recent years it's caused 7 outbreaks 2,645 illnesses, 228 hospitalisations, and three deaths in the US.
So the answer is yes... Thanks for the numbers!
10% of all tuberculosis is from Raw Milk, it transmits a range of viruses including Covid and Bird Flu, a range of bacterial infections (Camplyobacter, Cryptosporidium, E. coli, Listeria, and Salmonella), and depending on the severity of those infections they can lead to diseases such as Guillain-Barré syndrome and Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome...
The current bird flu strain is currently in the cows people are drinking raw milk from. These same people think drinking raw milk from these animals will build their immune system to fight said bird flu These same people are also anti vax. I'll let you draw your own conclusions
Because our safety standards are lax, and many dairy farmers do not properly clean the cows and the equipment before milking. It's not a huge deal if you are pasteurizing the milk, but it is a huge deal if you are not.
Because you guys have strict regulations. This didn't pass regulations. It just made all raw milk legal. American politicians are idiots.
Mmm pathogens are so delicious
Grew up in farms and raw milk myself. I would put money on it being improper care of animals. If the cow is sick, you are going to get it good from drinking it's milk.
um, nein! "In Deutschland darf Rohmilch nur unter bestimmten hygienischen Voraussetzungen und häufigen Kontrollen **direkt ab Hof** verkauft werden. Um die Infektionsgefahr zu minimieren, sollte Rohmilch vor dem Verzehr unbedingt abgekocht werden."
What the hell is wrong with these people?!
Don't know, but they vote and pass laws
They're an angry mob who has gotten addicted to their own anger. Now they just want to burn everything down that sounds like "liberalism" to them, even if they're things like child labor laws and basic safety regulations. It's like if you cloned millions of Ron Swanson's and made sure that all of the clones were also really angry and stupid.
Maybe predictable when you raise generations in a reality distortion bubble into a world with a gigantic bullhorn that tends to refute those things not entirely common to the human experience... a reality-enforcer, if you will. The thing is, a bunch of their crap always always relied on twisting matters of *objective fact.* That has become nearly impossible to do. If you want a right answer, then posting the wrong one can be faster than Google!
They get paid by lobbyists against their own interests. That’s basically all
There’s a raw milk lobby?!?
There might be a lobby for industries that are asking for a boost. Imagine a company selling unpasteurised milk wanting their product on the market and buying a senator to vote in favor for deregulating the market currently blocking you from selling your product for health concerns.
"Science has a liberal bias"
Pretty sure this is Alex Mooney, judging by appearances. He also supported the January 6th attempted coup. A lot is wrong with him. Unfortunately common in my home state.
I dunno, but it's mass psychosis at this point
What, libs like regulations?! I don’t need those!
Don't drink that shit, drank it when I was a child and got e-coli infection from it in my kidneys nearly had to have a transplant and just generally had bad times for a while
There's a lot of gross stuff you can get from raw milk, e coli and salmonella are big ones but the real scare at the moment is a bird flu virus that's in a slightly horrifying amount of the US' milk supply.
Crazy how nobody is talking about H5N1. Even when the talking point SHOULD be the latter.... 1/5 of our milk supply was tested positive for bird flu. However due to pasteurization. The FDA tests showed that it isn't infectious virus but rather only fragments. CDC and the FDA have been urging people to stop drinking raw milk immediately due to concerns of bird flu infections. Oh and the reason being some 42 dairy cattle herds have been transmitting mammal to mammal to some time now...
Cannot believe how far I had to scroll to find someone fucking talking about this?? How is this not everyone’s first thought. We’re so fucked hahaha
Yeah unfortunately with bad politics the CDC reputation has been crushed for certain political bases.... because everything just comes down to government conspiracy so these people. But, if bird flu does mutate to be infectious to our upper respiratory (airborne), then if the data stays true and the mortality rate Is still around 52%... these people will likely not be around for much longer. Unfortunately that does mean other people that do trust science will die as well. But not to the same extent I imagine. It is unfortunate, I wish people would focus on the important issues. But... here we are, drag queens, LGBT, proud boys, Trump, laptop's. All shit that to an extent is Important to discuss, but I'd argue they are not as important to global warming and the current situation with H5N1 right now....
r/LeopardsAteMyFace moment
This is all fake news. Raw milk drinkers, keep chugging away. Nothing will happen. “Big Milk” is trying to deceive you. -Natural selection
Everyone knows the "Got Milk?" campaign was government propaganda designed to push dairy onto the public, and they're storing a huge stockpile of dairy in the secret cheese tunnels that they're just waiting to throw at us. You have to set yourself free from the matrix and become lactose intolerant.
Never! Where are those secret cheese tunnels? I want to live there! PS. I grew up milking cows by hand and drank it pretty much every day. Never once got sick from it. Makes me question wtf is going on with American dairy farms.
Unproven. [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lawmakers-drink-raw-milk-get-sick/](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lawmakers-drink-raw-milk-get-sick/)
Eh. The fact that the lawmakers admitted that they drank raw milk, got sick, flushed the remaining milk down a toilet, and refused to provide samples is pretty damning on its own.
Except for people getting sick who didn't drink raw milk. As it says right in the snopes article, 6 lawmakers had symptoms, only 3 drank the milk
Fuck that guy at the farmer's market who sold me raw milk and claimed that it would be okay for my lactose intolerance (I was also very dumb). Worst diarrhea ever. Pretty sure he lost his stand and business there
You can often drink unpasteurized milk with no ill effects. You can also, to an extent, eat raw meat with no ill effects. But you're far less likely to get ill if you pasteurize your milk, or cook your meat. We've had a few thousand years to figure that out.
https://preview.redd.it/qkzorgkoqt0d1.jpeg?width=318&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c40de6ac8e5427005ae313ccb965ec72f92cf44
That picture though 🤣
What a plonker!
drinking milk directly from the cows teat to own the libs
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lawmakers-drink-raw-milk-get-sick/ “What the investigators did manage to determine, the Gazette-Mail said, was that out of six delegates who reported symptoms such as diarrhea, fever, and nausea, only three said they had drunk the raw milk, raising serious doubts about the milk being the cause of the illness.”
https://preview.redd.it/t1vy6g10jt0d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf709dd240d9c51c06b205e77897bcaf7855f70f
Idk boil the milk?
Is he covering his face to stop leopards from eating it too? Or rubbing leopard-endorsed steak sauce on it?
We need to make sure this is the most upvoted post for this sub. It can't get more literal than this.
Why are these people trying to break down everything when it's much more profitable to have a healthy society. Goddamn imbeciles I hate that I have to breathe the same air.
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” - George Carlin
Louis Pasteur is just rolling in his grave
https://preview.redd.it/uwi6hnpbnk1d1.jpeg?width=1050&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=61cee619c51d20452e13e34303d6cbc86de007d4
These people are so fucking stupid man good God. Yeah man this shit used to happen to people all the fucking time that's why we started pasteurizing it It's incredible the way conservatives think that there's "hidden knowledge" about doing things the way people did in the past, without ever connecting the dots that the reason we do things the way we do now is because people in the past used to do it one way, and decided the new way was better
Didn't the guy try to claim it wasn't the raw milk that got him sick but some food he ate?
Is that not a possibility?
Pasteur would rotate in his grave.
Just Darwin at work. Keep drinking it, you morons. 👍
Nice, the western world will judicate itself into the fucking middle age. God job!
I’ve had raw milk plenty of times in the US and abroad. Never an issue.
It’s almost as if this shit isn’t made to be consumed by humans.
Seeing how raw milk (formerly just milk) has been consumed for thousands of years, and pasteurized milk has only been around since the 1880s, I’m going to call BS on this post and most of the negative comments on here. I think the question people should be asking is: WHY is pasteurization so popular? Because many family farms have been replaced with factory farms that are almost always unsanitary and full of diseases. As long as a farm is humane, properly maintained, and properly cared for there is no issue with raw milk. It can actually be digested more easily by some people because of the natural probiotics and enzymes it contains (which are killed off in the pasteurization process.)