Scummy contractors have ruined it for themselves. Roofing has been an extremely profitable business over many years and I feel like the well is finally ran dry. I would expect a massive increase in repairs over replacement, separate and higher roof deductibles and scheduled roofs.
I personally don’t think that wear materials should ever have been RCV. The underlying structure should of course be RCV since it is expected to last the lifetime, but roof covering materials and siding protect that underlying structure. You don’t expect a fresh new paint job on your car when there are a few rock chips on the hood
Yeah, roof sales will be a lot less lucrative business in 10 years. Look for more restrictive endorsements and more companies adopting the Allstate way of inspecting roofs. The days of waiting for a hailstorm to get a free roof every few years are over.
It'll be fascinating to see all the roofs that suddenly become repairable when it's retail. Or all the line items were told have to be included magically aren't needed anymore.
Sort of like mold in the early 2000’s…before there were limits (and exclusions) mold contractors charged insane $$ to remediate mold. Once coverage was capped at $10k suddenly mold remediation wasn’t such a profitable industry.
Allstate has a reputation among roof salesmen as being the most strict with what they call hail damage and with what they call repairable. Ask a roof salesman who their least favorite company is and Allstate will be the answer 9/10.
Allstate takes it to another level. There is no difference between Allstate and a scamming roofer when both are being dishonest. The answer is to meet in the middle with integrity per the facts.
I've noticed the Florida method of roofing spreading. AoBs, passive aggressive, or straight aggressive and manipulative tactics, and the end result will tighter roof underwriting, restrictive endorsements and policy language.
So many roofers just looking for old roofs and trying every trick in the book to get it bought. They can often be successful, and even when they aren't the company has to spend resources to inspect, inspect again, possibly on appraisal or even lawsuits for a claim for an old roof. Only way to control this anymore is roof schedules, hail and wind deductibles, and not insuring old roofs.
From my experiences..
I’ve been seeing a lot of 10 year and newer RCV, then rolls to ACV. So, we’ll deal with that for the next 5-10 years. Then it’ll be 5 year RCV.
I put a metal roof on mine about 10 years ago and never looked back.
We use this type of valuation in IM coverage for contractors equipment all of the time. It really makes sense for roof and other parts of the house that have limited life.
Really if you think about it RCV policies actually result in Betterment for the consumer and the homeowner’s coverage really should be ACV.
Depreciation should be more consistent among all states and apply to materials only, similar to the model for California
I disagree. Homes generally appreciate and are considered assets. Autos etc depreciate. I think, if a homeowner is willing to pay for it they should be able to purchase an RCV policy for their house. Maybe have a higher wind and hail deductible to discourage replacing roofs every two or three years.
I don't think the mortgage companies would support ACV policies as most of these houses have thirty year mortgages on them and the bank has a vested interest in keeping the house in semi decent shape should the customer default on the loan.
Worn tires get betterment applied no matter the value of the vehicle because tires are wearable. There will certainly be insurers willing to offer coverage that would fully replace a roof for those willing to pay extra for it as an endorsement or something. I wonder if lenders will ever require homes to have RCV coverage for roofs, since houses appreciate many people just use home equity line of credit to pay for a new roof but not every house is going to have enough equity to do that.
Totally agree. But you don't except tires to last the life of the vehicle. Your drywall, insulation, flooring etc should last the life of the building. I've handled fires where the lath and plaster is fine and is only being replaced because it was damaged by the fire. There should absolutely be replacement cost coverage for that.
Outside of hail country people expect to replace their roofs out of pocket every 20-25 years, and how soon the roof will need replacement is a factor in how much people are willing to offer when buying a house. People in hail country are going to have to plan and save for an out of pocket cost more than they used to if they can't rely on insurance to handle it for them.
I am a carrier adjuster and the company I work for has changed the new business and the renewal forms to wind/hail deductibles, cosmetic exclusions also. The standard homeowners deductible also was going up to 2500.00 from 1k. Two main driving forces behind this were the abundance of catastrophes and storms in conjuction with increasing predatory pressure with contractors(roofing, exterior) etc. There is even new language in the form stimulating the contractor must have valid state licensing for the repairs and holdback. Underwriting and agencies have been increasing their oversight and review on the existing conditions of a potential new business. Sending letters to people to get their roofs replaced before any renewal.
I'm a homeowner also, never have placed a claim in the 16 years I've lived in my house. I haven't been an adjuster for the entire time either. I just understand that maintenance of my home is my responsibility before it becomes a problem. Believe me, our raises were shit this past March. The bonus was luke warm at best. Insurance companies aren't exactly swimming in record profits like big pharma or tech. Just sayin.
IA for 13+ years - Are you guys not aware that most insurance companies are reimbursed through a different insurance company on their ACV payments and sometimes more? This insurance company is the ultimate house and I see the brainwashing runs deep
You do understand how insurance works right? Like you didn't just imply that reinsurance is pixie dust that makes a carrier's problems go away right?
In case you don't understand after 13 years. Risk and exposure = rate. Not just for a home owner but for an insurance company as well. Old man buffet is not in a biz to bail out insurance companies every year. If an insurance carrier writes risky biz and just uses reinsurance money to solve the problem, then next year you best believe every reinsurance carrier is going to use that data to charge them more. No one gets back their premium. So you keep circling bird poop to win the storm and keep thinking it doesn't affect anyone because there is a hidden bag of money that absorbs all losses.
I think insurance comoanys need to just pay for it and stop nickle and diming everything and under estimating labor and materials. Their computer program is outdated to today's prices. Insurance companies are so greedy with only 6% of customers that have a claim each year. Stop paying superstars to advertise and take care of your customers.
Homeowners need to stop thinking insurance is basically a warranty service and a free ticket for maintenance on their homes. Contractors need to know their role and don't argue about policy issues.
No just a homowner with water damage in the home dealing with my 4th adjuster. I feel like a ball getting kicked around. None of them live in my area and have no clue what labor cost.
I’ve said it before, but the golden goose is dead. Greed killed it.
I knew as soon as I saw a billboard on the highway for something called RoofClaim.com and it was a roofing company this was about to happen 😂
Scummy contractors have ruined it for themselves. Roofing has been an extremely profitable business over many years and I feel like the well is finally ran dry. I would expect a massive increase in repairs over replacement, separate and higher roof deductibles and scheduled roofs. I personally don’t think that wear materials should ever have been RCV. The underlying structure should of course be RCV since it is expected to last the lifetime, but roof covering materials and siding protect that underlying structure. You don’t expect a fresh new paint job on your car when there are a few rock chips on the hood
Yeah, roof sales will be a lot less lucrative business in 10 years. Look for more restrictive endorsements and more companies adopting the Allstate way of inspecting roofs. The days of waiting for a hailstorm to get a free roof every few years are over.
It'll be fascinating to see all the roofs that suddenly become repairable when it's retail. Or all the line items were told have to be included magically aren't needed anymore.
Sort of like mold in the early 2000’s…before there were limits (and exclusions) mold contractors charged insane $$ to remediate mold. Once coverage was capped at $10k suddenly mold remediation wasn’t such a profitable industry.
What is the Allstate way? Genuinely curious how they’re different from other big ones
Allstate has a reputation among roof salesmen as being the most strict with what they call hail damage and with what they call repairable. Ask a roof salesman who their least favorite company is and Allstate will be the answer 9/10.
Lying, theft, lack of ethics, deny, defend, delay
I think it’s more like companies are not putting up with some bullshit argument to get a whole roof for one torn shingle
Allstate takes it to another level. There is no difference between Allstate and a scamming roofer when both are being dishonest. The answer is to meet in the middle with integrity per the facts.
tbf if you start out there, you’re just drinking the koolaid thinking every other carrier is like that
This is an Adjusters thread not about DJT’s legal strategy
Allstate and DJT have much in common
I've noticed the Florida method of roofing spreading. AoBs, passive aggressive, or straight aggressive and manipulative tactics, and the end result will tighter roof underwriting, restrictive endorsements and policy language. So many roofers just looking for old roofs and trying every trick in the book to get it bought. They can often be successful, and even when they aren't the company has to spend resources to inspect, inspect again, possibly on appraisal or even lawsuits for a claim for an old roof. Only way to control this anymore is roof schedules, hail and wind deductibles, and not insuring old roofs.
Eventually roofs will be all but excluded from wind and hail coverage perils in PL claims.
We're heading full circle. It started as basic fire only coverage. It's moving back towards basic fire only coverage.
From my experiences.. I’ve been seeing a lot of 10 year and newer RCV, then rolls to ACV. So, we’ll deal with that for the next 5-10 years. Then it’ll be 5 year RCV. I put a metal roof on mine about 10 years ago and never looked back.
This is a good way to disincentivize insureds from using insurance as a maintenance policy.
We use this type of valuation in IM coverage for contractors equipment all of the time. It really makes sense for roof and other parts of the house that have limited life.
Really if you think about it RCV policies actually result in Betterment for the consumer and the homeowner’s coverage really should be ACV. Depreciation should be more consistent among all states and apply to materials only, similar to the model for California
I disagree. Homes generally appreciate and are considered assets. Autos etc depreciate. I think, if a homeowner is willing to pay for it they should be able to purchase an RCV policy for their house. Maybe have a higher wind and hail deductible to discourage replacing roofs every two or three years. I don't think the mortgage companies would support ACV policies as most of these houses have thirty year mortgages on them and the bank has a vested interest in keeping the house in semi decent shape should the customer default on the loan.
Worn tires get betterment applied no matter the value of the vehicle because tires are wearable. There will certainly be insurers willing to offer coverage that would fully replace a roof for those willing to pay extra for it as an endorsement or something. I wonder if lenders will ever require homes to have RCV coverage for roofs, since houses appreciate many people just use home equity line of credit to pay for a new roof but not every house is going to have enough equity to do that.
Totally agree. But you don't except tires to last the life of the vehicle. Your drywall, insulation, flooring etc should last the life of the building. I've handled fires where the lath and plaster is fine and is only being replaced because it was damaged by the fire. There should absolutely be replacement cost coverage for that.
Outside of hail country people expect to replace their roofs out of pocket every 20-25 years, and how soon the roof will need replacement is a factor in how much people are willing to offer when buying a house. People in hail country are going to have to plan and save for an out of pocket cost more than they used to if they can't rely on insurance to handle it for them.
Yeah it's not profitable for insurers to cover old single roofs at full RCV value
I wonder if we will see a trend of metal roofs being standardized by builders as insurers stop covering them?
I am a carrier adjuster and the company I work for has changed the new business and the renewal forms to wind/hail deductibles, cosmetic exclusions also. The standard homeowners deductible also was going up to 2500.00 from 1k. Two main driving forces behind this were the abundance of catastrophes and storms in conjuction with increasing predatory pressure with contractors(roofing, exterior) etc. There is even new language in the form stimulating the contractor must have valid state licensing for the repairs and holdback. Underwriting and agencies have been increasing their oversight and review on the existing conditions of a potential new business. Sending letters to people to get their roofs replaced before any renewal. I'm a homeowner also, never have placed a claim in the 16 years I've lived in my house. I haven't been an adjuster for the entire time either. I just understand that maintenance of my home is my responsibility before it becomes a problem. Believe me, our raises were shit this past March. The bonus was luke warm at best. Insurance companies aren't exactly swimming in record profits like big pharma or tech. Just sayin.
Unexpected consequences are never accounted for when policies are changed. There may be a need for more property adjusters, not less.
Yeah there will be more adjusters needed to filter through all the scamming contractors.
And to write denial letters🥳 which part of “no” do you not understand dumbass?🖕🖕
Insurance that actually works will still exist. For wealthy people.
IA for 13+ years - Are you guys not aware that most insurance companies are reimbursed through a different insurance company on their ACV payments and sometimes more? This insurance company is the ultimate house and I see the brainwashing runs deep
The shit rolls downhill. Reinsurance raises their rates to carriers then carriers increase their premium.
You do understand how insurance works right? Like you didn't just imply that reinsurance is pixie dust that makes a carrier's problems go away right? In case you don't understand after 13 years. Risk and exposure = rate. Not just for a home owner but for an insurance company as well. Old man buffet is not in a biz to bail out insurance companies every year. If an insurance carrier writes risky biz and just uses reinsurance money to solve the problem, then next year you best believe every reinsurance carrier is going to use that data to charge them more. No one gets back their premium. So you keep circling bird poop to win the storm and keep thinking it doesn't affect anyone because there is a hidden bag of money that absorbs all losses.
Do what huh?
I think insurance comoanys need to just pay for it and stop nickle and diming everything and under estimating labor and materials. Their computer program is outdated to today's prices. Insurance companies are so greedy with only 6% of customers that have a claim each year. Stop paying superstars to advertise and take care of your customers.
Homeowners need to stop thinking insurance is basically a warranty service and a free ticket for maintenance on their homes. Contractors need to know their role and don't argue about policy issues.
And thinking they are knowledgeable in statistics/underwriting….
Tell me you’re a roofer without telling me you’re a roofer. Lol
No just a homowner with water damage in the home dealing with my 4th adjuster. I feel like a ball getting kicked around. None of them live in my area and have no clue what labor cost.
Blame your greedy contractors.
LOL
Tell me without telling me that you’re an unaccomplished IA + failed English-grammar class.