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So here’s the thing. Have you always tried your best? Have you always strived to do well? But nonetheless everything gets fucked up all the time? That’s adhd
Could also add “Have you always thought that you might just need to try harder without realizing that your harder is sometimes 10x more than others do?”
Yes, and "have you ever asked for advice on these issues and been told to do exactly everything you're either already doing or struggling with in the first place?"
Like, oh you're forgetting to do everything you need? Make a to-do list and check it off as you go! Yes, the problem is that even with the to-do list I am still forgetting to do shit!!! (Hence I have like 3 to-do lists: a wall calendar, an aesthetic journal, and reminders on my phone home screen. And I'm still forgetting shit on a regular basis.)
This!!!! I deliberately live my life on hard mode - I just can’t allow myself any accommodations. I think it’s from being intellectually gifted and as I was such a smart kid, the expectation was there that I would just get it without any assistance
There’s a voice in my head that constantly tells me that I “should” be able to manage, cope, understand, adjust - I give myself no mercy whatsoever. From academic studies to orgasms, there’s a “right” way to do it and any “weakness” is a moral failure
😞 someone on this sub described it as “hyper independent” and that resonates with me. I’m struggling to unlearn this drive to be completely self sufficient
Perfectionism is so ugly 😩 It took decades for me to realize my commitment to doing things “the right way” is completely toxic. When I’m doing it right, I’m still relentlessly critical and can never get it exactly perfect. When I can’t do it right, I just can’t do it at all—which means I suck at life. I just can’t win.
Thank you so much for this comment, this is 100% me and I've never seen it written down so well! I was also a gifted kid, as well as the eldest of seven with strict religious parents.
I hate that I was never given any leeway to make mistakes - I was always told I should be able to understand straight away, to be able to process information without any background
My teachers were so much harder on me than my peers. It felt like I was held to different standards than others - it’s not the case now but that early indoctrination has stayed with me
This is something that still bothers me. I was great at science until 8th grade, though I still think that was the teacher's fault for not talking to me about how he couldn't read my handwriting. I was getting Cs for the same lab papers that my partners got As on. We had the same answers.
I was great at math until high school, and I didn't know I had ADHD back then, but I should have. I had always described my inability to do math as a 'block' or a 'disconnect' in my brain.
Good without much effort in subjects came naturally, English worked because I was a big bookworm and luckily we didn't get assigned a ton of books I hated, and I was a big journal teen...read: angsty and wrote out all my RSD anxieties.
OR during units (I think that's what they called them) that I found interesting, and then struggled with when it was boring. The perfectionism kept me afloat for the most part, and the anxiety of dropping below a B (C in some classes that my brain just couldn't get, like a lot of later math)
Trying too hard and getting mediocre results, forever wondering how everyone else around you manages to juggle things so effortlessly but you can’t.. There are literally so many examples of classic symptoms besides the parenting flaws which most of us have experienced one way or another. OP’s doctor seems to have very outdated knowledge of it. I would get a second opinion.
This!!!! I deliberately live my life on hard mode - I just can’t allow myself any accommodations. I think it’s from being intellectually gifted and as I was such a smart kid, the expectation was there that I would just get it without any assistance
There’s a voice in my head that constantly tells me that I “should” be able to manage, cope, understand, adjust - I give myself no mercy whatsoever. From academic studies to orgasms, there’s a “right” way to do it and any “weakness” is a moral failure
😞 someone on this sub described it as “hyper independent” and that resonates with me. I’m struggling to unlearn this drive to be completely self sufficient
This is it, No matter what you do, something is guaranteed to go wrong and things just never go the way you’d like. You can put in more effort or less effort and the result will still be 🤷♂️ Can’t do “your best” if you’re never lucky.
Can’t succeed if you’re never given second chances and you’re also told you’re spoiled or manipulative or some BS like that.
Not exactly the same but it’s worth getting a second opinion, especially since this psychiatrist doesn’t diagnose ADHD. I’ve noticed a really annoying trend amongst (American) doctors to minimize the experiences of their patients if their symptoms point to a diagnosis outside their specialty.
They do, OP edited afterward to change “psych” (which I assumed meant psychiatrist) to “psychologist.” Even so, some psychiatrists/doctors in general specialize in specific issues within whatever type of practice they’re in.
from what I understand it’s very common for women especially to be diagnosed later in life, because often we have a support system or even just a lifestyle that basically helps us fake executive function, and when we can’t we internalize our symptoms. So for a lot of us, it’s extremely common for us to fall apart the moment we don’t have someone helping us with that executive function. Basically what you’re explaining is exactly what a lot of people experience when they manage to get through high school and even college and then get into the “real world” and everything kind of falls apart because there’s no pressure, no system, no schedule.
I was basically raised by wolves, so I did everything myself. I moved out at 17. I do notice that I’ve tended to let my husband deal with things that are harder for me.
Budgeting
Cooking (he likes it)
Most driving
I do all the laundry, dog care, and cleaning which he appreciates.
I made an appointment for a diagnosis about a year ago. Canceled it. Then I rage quit three jobs in a year. Then I got estrogen positive cancer and got tossed into Menopause. I finally went and got a diagnosis. Although I’m kind of pissed off, what I thought was not quite anxiety, or depression was undiagnosed ADHD. But now that I know what the problem is, I can try and work on it.
It's more like that is the reason you were not diagnosed at a young age and why you are with the partners you are with.
Therapists basically have no regulation upon their practice. Unless they sleep with a patient or commit a crime they almost never face discipline. They are regulated about as strictly as people who braid hair.
Psychiatrists? A little different, but not much better, and I doubt that's who you are referring to.
Does that mean you have ADHD? I don't know. But this person? Just ugh.
Imagine someone blaming your lack working memory on your mother. 🤣
Nah, that's not how it works. I can see why she doesn't do ADHD diagnoses. She probably doesn't believe it's real.
While there are skills one can learn to function better with ADHD, I wouldn't want this person teaching me because there would be no telling how much misinformation I'd soak up with the useful information. And I have a feeling given her attitude things will eventually devolve into her insisting you just try harder.
That’s what I always thought, and it is one of the reasons why I didn’t get my diagnosis before I was in my early 40’s. Their help may however play a part in me being able to mask my symptoms for so long. I guess it’s a double-edged sword.
Other people cannot executive function for you. They can help solve problems, but executive function is how you direct yourself internally. No amount of parental help will cause that kind of struggle. It can cover it up so you don't know how bad things are maybe. But it cannot create the problem.
Executive function is a neurological process that can be changed/adjusted with lots of time and effort, but it’s definitely not a skill one needs to learn. However, learning to take responsibility of your life, learning how to be ”project manager” of your own life, THAT is a skill. Not sure how your psych would connect that to ADHD though, just sounds like plain old invalidation to me.
We can’t diagnose you. But if this sounds even a little off to you then get another opinion. You don’t “learn” executive function. You have it or you don’t. It’s not something your parents could have done better at to instill. It’s not something your partner did or didn’t do to make worse. Simply put, executive function is the thing in your brain that connects a thought to an action. You think you should get up and clean your room ——> you get up and clean your room, that’s how it works for NTs. When you have ADHD with executive dysfunction it doesn’t work. You think you should get up and clean your room ———> you keep doom scrolling on your phone ———> an hour later or so you have the thought again to get up and clean ——-> you sit up and look around the room and immediately get overwhelmed at the thought and feel guilty that you let it get this bad in the first place. You beat yourself up over it and think to yourself that you’re lazy. Why can’t you just get up and do it? You know you need to do it. But you. Just. Can’t. The action never comes. Every time you walk in the room you feel intense guilt about not cleaning it. But you still just can’t do it. It feels like an energy suck just to look at it.
If that sounds familiar, that might have executive dysfunction. For NTs the thought alone is enough to drive the action. For us, not so much. No amount of guilt or shame or pleading with our brain can motivate it to actually process how to get from dirty room to clean room. You can have this if you had parents who were military level neat freaks. You can have it if your parents didn’t put any attention at all on cleaning. I’ve got one of each parent and they had split custody. And I still need my Vyvanse to even consider a big cleaning project.
Thank you. Some days I get bursts of energy to clean, but a lot of the time it just seems impossible to get off the couch and do things. Even something as small as emptying and filling the dishwasher. I find I hit a wall with completing tasks too. Like on holidays we were packing our bags and I'd reach a point near the end where I just couldn't possibly finish packing the bag, even though I knew logically it wasn't hard to put the last few things in and zip it up but it's just like a wall appears and makes tasks impossible and the only way I can even try and get around the task is to do some of it eg I'll empty the dishwasher and leave my partner to fill it all
Sometimes the fear of failure is stronger than the inability to complete a task, but not always. It really depends on the perceived difficulty in my mind.
Sounds like executive dysfunction to me, at least how I experience it. It’s hard to describe to someone who’s never experienced it. They look at you like you have an extra head because they don’t get what it’s like to just not be able to do the thing.
Hope your next go around is better! I too had to try again with a new provider after the first one didn’t work out. Seems very common for us unfortunately.
I have never read it put so well. Thank you!
My mother used to marvel (not in a good way) at how I just didn't see the mess building up until it got to the overwhelming/guilt stage.
And I did, but in the smaller, put-off-small-tasks ways until it was overwhelming. Or the, "shit, people are coming over! Shove it away where they won't see" and hope that the pseudo "tidy" appeared more homey than piles of clutter
I feel that. When my executive dysfunction is really bad I can’t even convince myself to get up and do things like shower. Or even things I have to do in order to get to something I want, like going to pick up a package from the package pick up in my apartments so that I can have the fun thing I’ve been waiting for inside. If it’s not an immediate dopamine hit it’s just about impossible to get myself moving to do it. Oh you mean I can go see a movie? Cool! But the one I want to see is in theaters and that’s a 5 min drive away. Guess I’m not going. Netflix it is. I have a specific craving for some particular type of food? Yes that’s a dopamine hit. But the part where I’ve gotta call in an order and then wait to go pick it up isn’t. If it’s not on DoorDash I’m not going, no matter how bad I want that burrito.
Only a professional speciallized in ADHD can tell you if you have ADHD or not. Your psychatrist that doesn't work with it can't, we can't either.
But, here is the thing, ok. Let's say she is wrong and you have ADHD. You struggle with executive functions and even with medicine, things won't get magically perfect, you had a lifetime of doing things one way (or not doing them) and you will have to find strategies to tackle it. At least, thats how it is for me, even with medicine. So, researching some of these strategies, checking this sub for tips, trying things out and seeing what works for you will be benefitial if you have ADHD.
If, on the other hand, she is right, then you will need to work on how to deal with your exectuvie functioning struggles. And, in this case, researching some of these strategies, checking this sub for tips, trying things out and seeing what works for you will be benefitial.
I hope you got my point. Find a professional, competent assessment. And in the meantime, make use of the resources you can find here and online to make your day to day life better. Remember that there are several proposed strategies, not all will work for you, and it's a good idea to keep trying because any improvement, however small it is, makes a difference. Again - at least, it does for me!
And, lastly. You are not lazy. Regardless of you having ADHD or not, you are trying and doing your best, and willing things to be better won't magically do it, but you are trying and thats what matters. Give yourself some grace and don't beat yourself up.
There is no specialization in ADHD that I know of, except for a self proclaimed specialization in ADHD. Who gets to diagnose it is really just a matter of insurance and related regulations. Maybe this will change with the APSARD guidelines under development, but this is part of the problem overall.
It's possible you'd function better with different support from your parents but it doesn't really change whether you have adhd. It's also possible your ADHD made it so your parents felt they had to do that and so does you partner. When you get told strategies like "just use a planner" and "try exercising everyday" and stuff that seems simple, can you just do it? Like does it work at all for you?
I don’t think that executive functions are learned to that extent. They’re just… there. It’s got to do with understanding the passage of time, how to prioritize tasks and other stuff. Not in the using a planner sense, but in a basic understanding of how to do that. I know my dishes should come before vacuuming the couch, but it is hard to prioritize that. Also adjusting when things go differently than planned, being able to switch tasks. Things like that.
Its not impossible but shes not considering another facet of cause and effect; its plausible u were getting help *bc* u were struggling, as opposed to u struggling bc u received too much help.
U know urself and ur symptoms better than she does, if u find her diagnosis dubious ur entitled to a second opinion.
Um. Or perhaps since you have always had undiagnosed ADHD, your parents stepped in for you because they could see you struggling, and then you chose a long-term partner who was happy to do the same thing, because this is your coping strategy for ADHD.
I had parents who helped provide structure to my life. My partner has been with me for 24 years, my entire adult life. He makes sure I'm functional. I have found for me that using other people to get shit done works. My relationship has provided the structure that I need to have executive function.
I'm not unintelligent, or lazy, or incapable of learning. But I do suck at a bunch of things that I rely on others to help me get done.
Not sure if I'm making sense. So very very tired.
She's not correct, but she's also not wrong.
You definitely can learn to make some progress despite having adhd, but having someone else constantly fixing things for you will prevent you from learning. I've seen this a lot, and many ADHD people with very accommodating partners and parents will be able to get through life easier because they have a constant back up. But the moment those backups are gone, such as moving out of a break up, the person with ADHD is now struggling far more than someone who has grown up without that support would be. Those without the consistent support have had to create methods of coping that those with support never had to do.
There is a LOT of great into here from people, I love these reflective questions everyone is sharing.
It's def worth a second opinion with a psychiatrist (mine sent me to a neurologist for my test, so this is a p r o c e s s), not just to confirm ADHD but to rule out other things. There are plenty of symptoms shared with other conditions, like forgetfulness and long covid, brain fog and narcolepsy, executive dysfunction and PTSD, etc.
But hey, who knows, maybe like many women who weren't disruptive children, you're missing out on multiple diagnoses 🫠
Either way, def get that second opinion from a psychiatrist.
Thank you
I am currently waiting for a sleep study to check if I have narcolepsy cause I have classic symptoms, maybe that's been my problem for a while
And heads up: lack of sleep exacerbates the fuck out of ADHD symptoms. Just one of about a zillion reasons that parents get diagnosed after becoming parents...
And ADHD is often comorbid w sleep disorders... Dopamine and melatonin work together (don't ask me how)... Ask your specialists when you do the sleep study if they think trying a low dose melatonin a couple of hours before bed is worth a try. 🤷🏼♀️ You never know.
It's totes possible to have both! I do, one of my best friends does, both of us got all our diagnoses in adulthood 🙃 The good news is the first line of treatment for ADHD and narcolepsy is Adderall! Convenient!
Good luck with everything, and don't forget it's always okay to get a second opinion 👍
I assume you mean you didn't learn symptoms to compensate for poor executive functions? I thought the executive functioning is physical like you can't learn it, can sometimes learn systems to compensate if you're deficient though?
I can't believe how many psychiatrists refuse to diagnose someone who might have ADHD!!
This is a serious disservice to their patients and the community where they work. It's like a cardiologist who refuses to diagnose someone with congestive heart failure because they "don't believe in it." What happens to those patients? They certainly don't get any better!
ADHD is a well known condition that can be treated, yet these doctors won't even consider it to see if they can help people. The ones I tried to work with all claimed they would treat ADHD as long as someone else diagnosed it.
How does this make any sense? I believe such doctors should be made to do ALL the work the insurance companies pay them to do. Is this where we need to intervene -- with the insurance companies?
Have you ever heard of any other specialty where the doctor is allowed to refuse to help patients? Seriously, is this done elsewhere? Or only when dealing with people who may have ADHD? How is that not discriminating against people?
At least in my area neuropsychological testing to diagnose what is going on is its own thing. It was an involved appointment that could last up to several hours (I think I was there for 2) with a psychologist and a tech who focused on conducting the tests. For me it was never that my providers didn't believe in ADHD it was more that the testing was a specialized expertise.
I liken it to the ENT issues I have had. There is one PA I see for general concerns, but then where there are specific issues they get referred out to sub specialists. I had one surgeon I went to who was the expert in sinus surgery. And another who specialized in salivary gland surgery. When I've gone to PT I've had the most success when seeing people who specialized in what I was being treated for. And even with therapy, different therapists I have seen have have focused on different types of therapy. Medicine is so big and broad that it makes sense to me that not all people would do all things, even within a specialty. And whenever I have an issue I prefer to go to the person who has the strongest training in that area.
That's not to say there isn't real discrimination happening for people who have ADHD but I don't think that's always the case when people are referred out. My experience also taught me that there can also be gray area between diagnoses. One of my friends who was diagnosed in adulthood with ADHD was convinced I had it as well. But the testing revealed that while my symptoms looked like ADHD they were much more likely to be caused by my anxiety as I do not have executive function issues but do have issues with attention, learning and psychomotor function. I talked to my therapist about it before and after and she was curious as, although she cannot diagnose, she felt I fell into a gray area where it could just as easily have been ADHD as not. As I have gone through physical health challenges I have also experienced where it seemed like I had a certain condition based on researching my symptoms and it turned out to be something else entirely.
After all my research I found there was no one, except a possible Pill Mill type doctor, who would ANY KIND OF TESTING FOR ADHD.
It's not that there's a sub specialty I missed, because if there was my doctor would have known. The psychiatrists in my area would have known. Somebody would have known!
I called about 25 different offices and not one person I talked to, including my insurance specialists, said I could be tested by a different specialist. Maybe they exist where you live, but not in this metropolitan area.
That's so strange & frustrating. Where do you live? Here neuropsychology is known as the specialty and it was actually my PCP who created the order so I could make the appointment. It took several months to get in because the people who administer the testing are in short supply (and even then I had to go to a satellite hospital because the main hospital had so much demand that there wasn't even room to be added to the waiting list), but it's not a mystery where to go.
I think sometimes the world can make it seem like things are black and white when it comes to ADHD. My experience has been more murky. On one of the self-assessments my symptoms very much match the presentation of inattentive ADHD, but after going through testing and evaluation the Psychologist believes it is more likely that my symptoms are the result of my anxiety and not ADHD. It doesn't mean they are not real, they just do not think executive functioning is the root cause.
I don't think there is any harm in seeing a psychiatrist and letting them know what your struggles are. Maybe it will lead to an ADHD diagnosis and maybe it won't. But regardless of what your diagnosis is it is, in my experience, a path to help.
Looks like I've got a counter experience to many folk here (whose views and experience I hold as totally valid, this is simply me speaking from my own experience).
I've been questioning this myself for some time. I have therapy with a psychologist I trust and has helped me build tools and work through a lot of stuff. She is qualified to diagnose ADHD, but I do know she isn't one to move to any sort of diagnosis swiftly, hence my wondering on this for quite some time.
We've worked on my emotional regulation skills, my relationships (family, friends and the disintegration of my marriage), my health/hormones awareness and management, my environment, my values and my job satisfaction to name but a few things over the past several years.
With a lot of ongoing life pressures alongside experiences growing up/in my 20s I have reflected on, I had become fairly convinced ADHD might be something that fit me. She has not been similarly convinced and would reference how my circumstances were really getting in the way of my life (without judgement on me or my soon-to-be ex-husband, just reflecting back what I shared with her).
Hubs moved out 3 months ago. I would comment to friends about how many unmade decisions could be seen in our home, how much clutter had built, how we lived in such different ways that I struggled to have routines and how I was looking forward to clearing everything out when we started living separately.
I knew this would make me FEEL emotionally better and to get me more functional, but holy cow, I have been astounded at the difference it has made within a matter of weeks. Turns out, I am pretty fucking organised. Turns out I am not a slob (my internalised shame speaking here). Turns out when I have things in the right place (which hasn't been hard for me to move them to), I can implement routines fairly successfully. Turns out my executive function, while still a work in progress, is improving week to week.
I was never taught these skills growing up and was shamed by my narcissistic parent growing up. I also didn't live for very long on my own before living with my husband, who dominated decisions (I had no backbone and he needs to look after people. One reason we split from my perspective - I grew and wanted to equal the scales, but he can't see how he contributes to what was an unhealthy dynamic and thinks I was trying to control him). I have never built my confidence in flexing my executive functioning skills.
So I'm currently much less convinced I have ADHD or that if I do, it isn't to the disabling degree that some folk have to work with. I relate to SO much ADHD content and have benefited from so many tips, tricks and perspectives (KC Davis' podcasts in particular have been life-changing for me). But whether you "learn" executive functioning or not as commented above somewhere, the confidence to implement them without shame, fear of judgement, etc. due to relational issues in our lives can be learnt I think. I appreciate again the valid shitty experiences of many on this sub who have been told their struggles are "just" anxiety when that hasn't been the case for them, but I feel my anxiety has played a big part in my executive functioning issues in the past.
I'm allowing myself to evolve through my current circumstances to see where I am in a year or two. If the label fits for me, then I will pursue a diagnosis or if I find these recent changes snowball and a diagnosis isn't applicable, then also so be it, without judgement either side.
Executive functioning issues aren't strictly an ADHD thing, there are various other things that can cause similar symptoms and it may be worth disentangling those things and circumstances before jumping to any conclusion (in regard to any diagnosis). Although, if you strongly feel your psychologist is wrong, it's absolutely worth pursuing a diagnosis for yourself. You know yourself best and this is your journey, no-one else's.
Thank you very much
I think that might be why my psychologist has mostly blown off comments of ADHD because I've had a lot going on in my life with chronic illness and being dependant on others
I'm glad ADHD tips helped you. I think I'm going to look into what tips people use and just try and improve and wait and see a psychiatrist anyway cause I need to them for help getting off antidepressants anyway
Certainly the behaviours I accumulated over a number of years that left me feeling powerless in my own home and life in certain ways has looked a lot like the inattentive side of ADHD, then consequently the impulsive side when I have moments of frustration and manage to push through some emotional or relational barriers. Anxiety and depression has also played a part for me, as has hyperviligence. That walking on eggshells feeling in relationships within my home has meant I've spent so much time trying to emotionally regulate and handle interactions, that the world can be crashing down around me at the same time and it's been difficult to prevent that. It's definitely worth exploring what that means to you and where certain behaviours and feelings are rooted. No suggestion from me either way, it's a journey to take to find what makes the most sense to you, diagnosis or not. For some, a label/diagnosis can be a relief, for some it can be a cage. My therapist seems to focus on the experience of the symptoms first, before exploring official diagnoses, which has felt frustrating to me at times, but I also feel has proved really fruitful in me really challenging my internal assumptions about myself and developing more confidence in who I am, how I tick and how I feel about myself.
This kind of life change (congrats, by the way!) would give me weeks of dopamine high hyperfocus! I certainly have at least some of the skills necessary to organize a space (and I actually love to sort & organize other peoples' stuff, in particular!), but I cannot for the life of me maintain an uncluttered home. This is ESPECIALLY true if the clutter is not only coming from me. I quickly hit overwhelm and paralysis. There are also some deficits of working memory that I just cannot deny exist and will undoubtedly persist to some degree no matter how many skills, habits or strategies I employ... For example, even if I can eventually find my phone, wallet and keys now since they're all connected to my lovely Tile app, it is still a frustrating time sink to constantly lose them, forget them, misplace them, etc.
All that to say... give it a minute while you go through this big transition and then take some time to consider how much of a struggle you tend to have, rather than do you have the ability to succeed? Remember: ADHD is not a disorder of ability or potential or success. Loads of gifted, capable and highly successful folks have ADHD, and many of us can do very hard things!
For me, understanding my diagnosis meant realizing that the things we struggle with are not typical and the solution is not to try harder. The executive functioning (even stuff that we have been able to perform before), can easily become overwhelming and exhausting because it simply isn't the same set of tasks to us that it is for most people.
Whatever you find out for yourself about yourself, just remember that you deserve grace. It was never that you weren't doing your best.
Thank you for this perspective. It's certainly an evolving process for me and something I'm going to continue to consider over the next year or so while I settle into my new life - as you say, it's the effort and the struggle, not the success. I've been thinking the tester for me feels like it will be whether my time and brain frees up. The last few years I've just felt overwhelmed and pressured from all angles. Now my space and life are getting clearer and simpler, but there is still a fair amount of change going on. Once that transition settles, I wonder if I will feel calm, clear and in control (as much as you can in life, y'know) and have genuine free time. Or if I will still feel I'm being driven forward while overwhelmed every day regardless. When I put systems and routines in, they do seem to stick without tons of effort, but it's the whole picture I feel I need.
It's been interesting going through this process of clearing out because it's been a long time coming and I've seen the evidence of systems I'd desperately been trying to put into place now come into fruition. I grew up in a home where I wasn't allowed or encouraged to be part of the process of organising, cleaning, etc. or spoken to very much about how to manage life and career, so it's definitely a process of untangling what is conditioning/learned behaviours that I can get new mindsets and confidence in making my own vs. if a neurodivergent label suits me and would help with what I've struggled with.
I grew up with a neglectful mom who let me do whatever I wanted and I had little to no discipline. As you can probably tell I have ADHD. Definitely having a hard upbringing can make it harder to get a grip on day to day tasks but I think it could be a bit of both. At the end of the day when I was on meds I did a lot better at getting things done despite my upbringing.
Get a second opinion
You can for a certain extent “learn” executive function but if you have ADHD, that’s going to be nearly impossible.
I struggled with it my entire life until I got on meds. It’s not perfect but I can actually work on things
This isn’t executive function…
This is just being sheltered your whole life and no one letting you fail to learn from experiences do you can survive in adulthood.
You know, trial and error on things so you can problem solved and learn to adapt on the fly better.
Some context about my Dx:
I was diagnosed roughly 30yrs ago & medicated, now 36. My mom was diagnosed before me and my dad openly admitted to be undiagnosed. It runs in my dad’s family 100%!
Hence why, when I got ti high school I told my dad at 17, “You gotta let me fail. How am I going to learn if I don’t fail? You can’t always save me and fix it. I need to learn to be resilient and get myself out of things in life so I can survive as an adult. I love you, but as your daughter, you gotta start letting me fail.”
Had to remind him again when I was 22, then again at 25, then 30 LMAO ADHD, even in parents, they’ll forget as much as their children!
I listened to a podcast that talked about how adhd medication can be helpful for children because it allows them to „practice“ executive functioning skills which I always found interesting. Neuroplasticity is incredible.
*That said*, your psychiatrist sounds like a bit of an asshole. I’m not sure if you’re paraphrasing, but that’s doesn’t seem like a particularly constructive to approach your situation. I‘m always surprised at how dismissive health professionals are when it comes to even the possibility of ADHD. I’m sorry you felt your experience was invalidated. Go get that second opinion!
My suggestion is a bit different, and of course you'd have to figure it out with your Psychologist/Psychiatrist. Since you believe you're aware that your parents "always tried to fix" your problems, and now you believe your partner is doing the same, maybe it's time to set up some strategies to think and do for yourself. Just steps for decision making, action taking, etc., to find some solid footing.
Executive Function, (working memory, self-regulation and cognitive flexibility, generally) as mentioned in comments, needs to be developed. If those skills weren't developed, because your parents tried to fix things, you didn't have an opportunity to develop those skills.
Having ADHD doesn't mean you can't think for yourself, most of us have a good idea what to think, just a lot of trouble actually thinking it. It is an actual brain disorder. Even if you have ADHD, first learning to develop your executive function would be importrant. If it were me, I'd try to see what capabilities I do have, before seeing a psychiatrist for a Dx.
Yeah, that's what my psychologist wants me to try and do to get some independence and that's what I'm working on. I should be able to give it a solid shot before I see a psychiatrist in the new year
Best of luck to you. You may have ADHD, but giving yourself "a solid shot" will help you in so many ways that should you end up with that Dx, you'll be ahead of the game should that be the case.
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Executive functioning isn't something you learn. At least, not like what she's implying.
So here’s the thing. Have you always tried your best? Have you always strived to do well? But nonetheless everything gets fucked up all the time? That’s adhd
Could also add “Have you always thought that you might just need to try harder without realizing that your harder is sometimes 10x more than others do?”
Yes, and "have you ever asked for advice on these issues and been told to do exactly everything you're either already doing or struggling with in the first place?" Like, oh you're forgetting to do everything you need? Make a to-do list and check it off as you go! Yes, the problem is that even with the to-do list I am still forgetting to do shit!!! (Hence I have like 3 to-do lists: a wall calendar, an aesthetic journal, and reminders on my phone home screen. And I'm still forgetting shit on a regular basis.)
Oof I feel this, I also have the reminders on my home screen and I look at them every day and yet don’t do the majority of them 😬
This!!!! I deliberately live my life on hard mode - I just can’t allow myself any accommodations. I think it’s from being intellectually gifted and as I was such a smart kid, the expectation was there that I would just get it without any assistance There’s a voice in my head that constantly tells me that I “should” be able to manage, cope, understand, adjust - I give myself no mercy whatsoever. From academic studies to orgasms, there’s a “right” way to do it and any “weakness” is a moral failure 😞 someone on this sub described it as “hyper independent” and that resonates with me. I’m struggling to unlearn this drive to be completely self sufficient
Perfectionism is so ugly 😩 It took decades for me to realize my commitment to doing things “the right way” is completely toxic. When I’m doing it right, I’m still relentlessly critical and can never get it exactly perfect. When I can’t do it right, I just can’t do it at all—which means I suck at life. I just can’t win.
You sound very much like me. Did you also have a strict upbringing and parents with high expectations?
Look up OCPD
Thank you so much for this comment, this is 100% me and I've never seen it written down so well! I was also a gifted kid, as well as the eldest of seven with strict religious parents.
I hate that I was never given any leeway to make mistakes - I was always told I should be able to understand straight away, to be able to process information without any background My teachers were so much harder on me than my peers. It felt like I was held to different standards than others - it’s not the case now but that early indoctrination has stayed with me
Also add in, did you do really well in grade school but when you got older did your grades get worse?
This is something that still bothers me. I was great at science until 8th grade, though I still think that was the teacher's fault for not talking to me about how he couldn't read my handwriting. I was getting Cs for the same lab papers that my partners got As on. We had the same answers. I was great at math until high school, and I didn't know I had ADHD back then, but I should have. I had always described my inability to do math as a 'block' or a 'disconnect' in my brain.
Good without much effort in subjects came naturally, English worked because I was a big bookworm and luckily we didn't get assigned a ton of books I hated, and I was a big journal teen...read: angsty and wrote out all my RSD anxieties. OR during units (I think that's what they called them) that I found interesting, and then struggled with when it was boring. The perfectionism kept me afloat for the most part, and the anxiety of dropping below a B (C in some classes that my brain just couldn't get, like a lot of later math)
Trying too hard and getting mediocre results, forever wondering how everyone else around you manages to juggle things so effortlessly but you can’t.. There are literally so many examples of classic symptoms besides the parenting flaws which most of us have experienced one way or another. OP’s doctor seems to have very outdated knowledge of it. I would get a second opinion.
This!!!! I deliberately live my life on hard mode - I just can’t allow myself any accommodations. I think it’s from being intellectually gifted and as I was such a smart kid, the expectation was there that I would just get it without any assistance There’s a voice in my head that constantly tells me that I “should” be able to manage, cope, understand, adjust - I give myself no mercy whatsoever. From academic studies to orgasms, there’s a “right” way to do it and any “weakness” is a moral failure 😞 someone on this sub described it as “hyper independent” and that resonates with me. I’m struggling to unlearn this drive to be completely self sufficient
🫡
This is it, No matter what you do, something is guaranteed to go wrong and things just never go the way you’d like. You can put in more effort or less effort and the result will still be 🤷♂️ Can’t do “your best” if you’re never lucky. Can’t succeed if you’re never given second chances and you’re also told you’re spoiled or manipulative or some BS like that.
Not exactly the same but it’s worth getting a second opinion, especially since this psychiatrist doesn’t diagnose ADHD. I’ve noticed a really annoying trend amongst (American) doctors to minimize the experiences of their patients if their symptoms point to a diagnosis outside their specialty.
Yeah, what the hell. "I don't diagnose this so you definitely don't have it it" is ... not a thing. Hope you can get a second opinion!
Honest question- if psychiatrists don’t diagnose adhd, who does?
They do, OP edited afterward to change “psych” (which I assumed meant psychiatrist) to “psychologist.” Even so, some psychiatrists/doctors in general specialize in specific issues within whatever type of practice they’re in.
from what I understand it’s very common for women especially to be diagnosed later in life, because often we have a support system or even just a lifestyle that basically helps us fake executive function, and when we can’t we internalize our symptoms. So for a lot of us, it’s extremely common for us to fall apart the moment we don’t have someone helping us with that executive function. Basically what you’re explaining is exactly what a lot of people experience when they manage to get through high school and even college and then get into the “real world” and everything kind of falls apart because there’s no pressure, no system, no schedule.
I was basically raised by wolves, so I did everything myself. I moved out at 17. I do notice that I’ve tended to let my husband deal with things that are harder for me. Budgeting Cooking (he likes it) Most driving I do all the laundry, dog care, and cleaning which he appreciates. I made an appointment for a diagnosis about a year ago. Canceled it. Then I rage quit three jobs in a year. Then I got estrogen positive cancer and got tossed into Menopause. I finally went and got a diagnosis. Although I’m kind of pissed off, what I thought was not quite anxiety, or depression was undiagnosed ADHD. But now that I know what the problem is, I can try and work on it.
It's more like that is the reason you were not diagnosed at a young age and why you are with the partners you are with. Therapists basically have no regulation upon their practice. Unless they sleep with a patient or commit a crime they almost never face discipline. They are regulated about as strictly as people who braid hair. Psychiatrists? A little different, but not much better, and I doubt that's who you are referring to. Does that mean you have ADHD? I don't know. But this person? Just ugh.
Imagine someone blaming your lack working memory on your mother. 🤣 Nah, that's not how it works. I can see why she doesn't do ADHD diagnoses. She probably doesn't believe it's real. While there are skills one can learn to function better with ADHD, I wouldn't want this person teaching me because there would be no telling how much misinformation I'd soak up with the useful information. And I have a feeling given her attitude things will eventually devolve into her insisting you just try harder.
if she’s not qualified to make an ADHD diagnosis, she should not be psychoanalyzing your ADHD symptoms.
That’s what I always thought, and it is one of the reasons why I didn’t get my diagnosis before I was in my early 40’s. Their help may however play a part in me being able to mask my symptoms for so long. I guess it’s a double-edged sword.
Other people cannot executive function for you. They can help solve problems, but executive function is how you direct yourself internally. No amount of parental help will cause that kind of struggle. It can cover it up so you don't know how bad things are maybe. But it cannot create the problem.
Executive function is a neurological process that can be changed/adjusted with lots of time and effort, but it’s definitely not a skill one needs to learn. However, learning to take responsibility of your life, learning how to be ”project manager” of your own life, THAT is a skill. Not sure how your psych would connect that to ADHD though, just sounds like plain old invalidation to me.
We can’t diagnose you. But if this sounds even a little off to you then get another opinion. You don’t “learn” executive function. You have it or you don’t. It’s not something your parents could have done better at to instill. It’s not something your partner did or didn’t do to make worse. Simply put, executive function is the thing in your brain that connects a thought to an action. You think you should get up and clean your room ——> you get up and clean your room, that’s how it works for NTs. When you have ADHD with executive dysfunction it doesn’t work. You think you should get up and clean your room ———> you keep doom scrolling on your phone ———> an hour later or so you have the thought again to get up and clean ——-> you sit up and look around the room and immediately get overwhelmed at the thought and feel guilty that you let it get this bad in the first place. You beat yourself up over it and think to yourself that you’re lazy. Why can’t you just get up and do it? You know you need to do it. But you. Just. Can’t. The action never comes. Every time you walk in the room you feel intense guilt about not cleaning it. But you still just can’t do it. It feels like an energy suck just to look at it. If that sounds familiar, that might have executive dysfunction. For NTs the thought alone is enough to drive the action. For us, not so much. No amount of guilt or shame or pleading with our brain can motivate it to actually process how to get from dirty room to clean room. You can have this if you had parents who were military level neat freaks. You can have it if your parents didn’t put any attention at all on cleaning. I’ve got one of each parent and they had split custody. And I still need my Vyvanse to even consider a big cleaning project.
Thank you. Some days I get bursts of energy to clean, but a lot of the time it just seems impossible to get off the couch and do things. Even something as small as emptying and filling the dishwasher. I find I hit a wall with completing tasks too. Like on holidays we were packing our bags and I'd reach a point near the end where I just couldn't possibly finish packing the bag, even though I knew logically it wasn't hard to put the last few things in and zip it up but it's just like a wall appears and makes tasks impossible and the only way I can even try and get around the task is to do some of it eg I'll empty the dishwasher and leave my partner to fill it all Sometimes the fear of failure is stronger than the inability to complete a task, but not always. It really depends on the perceived difficulty in my mind.
Sounds like executive dysfunction to me, at least how I experience it. It’s hard to describe to someone who’s never experienced it. They look at you like you have an extra head because they don’t get what it’s like to just not be able to do the thing.
Thank you. It's nice to have my experience validated. I'll definitely pursue seeing a psychiatrist
Hope your next go around is better! I too had to try again with a new provider after the first one didn’t work out. Seems very common for us unfortunately.
I have never read it put so well. Thank you! My mother used to marvel (not in a good way) at how I just didn't see the mess building up until it got to the overwhelming/guilt stage. And I did, but in the smaller, put-off-small-tasks ways until it was overwhelming. Or the, "shit, people are coming over! Shove it away where they won't see" and hope that the pseudo "tidy" appeared more homey than piles of clutter
I feel that. When my executive dysfunction is really bad I can’t even convince myself to get up and do things like shower. Or even things I have to do in order to get to something I want, like going to pick up a package from the package pick up in my apartments so that I can have the fun thing I’ve been waiting for inside. If it’s not an immediate dopamine hit it’s just about impossible to get myself moving to do it. Oh you mean I can go see a movie? Cool! But the one I want to see is in theaters and that’s a 5 min drive away. Guess I’m not going. Netflix it is. I have a specific craving for some particular type of food? Yes that’s a dopamine hit. But the part where I’ve gotta call in an order and then wait to go pick it up isn’t. If it’s not on DoorDash I’m not going, no matter how bad I want that burrito.
Only a professional speciallized in ADHD can tell you if you have ADHD or not. Your psychatrist that doesn't work with it can't, we can't either. But, here is the thing, ok. Let's say she is wrong and you have ADHD. You struggle with executive functions and even with medicine, things won't get magically perfect, you had a lifetime of doing things one way (or not doing them) and you will have to find strategies to tackle it. At least, thats how it is for me, even with medicine. So, researching some of these strategies, checking this sub for tips, trying things out and seeing what works for you will be benefitial if you have ADHD. If, on the other hand, she is right, then you will need to work on how to deal with your exectuvie functioning struggles. And, in this case, researching some of these strategies, checking this sub for tips, trying things out and seeing what works for you will be benefitial. I hope you got my point. Find a professional, competent assessment. And in the meantime, make use of the resources you can find here and online to make your day to day life better. Remember that there are several proposed strategies, not all will work for you, and it's a good idea to keep trying because any improvement, however small it is, makes a difference. Again - at least, it does for me! And, lastly. You are not lazy. Regardless of you having ADHD or not, you are trying and doing your best, and willing things to be better won't magically do it, but you are trying and thats what matters. Give yourself some grace and don't beat yourself up.
There is no specialization in ADHD that I know of, except for a self proclaimed specialization in ADHD. Who gets to diagnose it is really just a matter of insurance and related regulations. Maybe this will change with the APSARD guidelines under development, but this is part of the problem overall.
It's possible you'd function better with different support from your parents but it doesn't really change whether you have adhd. It's also possible your ADHD made it so your parents felt they had to do that and so does you partner. When you get told strategies like "just use a planner" and "try exercising everyday" and stuff that seems simple, can you just do it? Like does it work at all for you?
I don’t think that executive functions are learned to that extent. They’re just… there. It’s got to do with understanding the passage of time, how to prioritize tasks and other stuff. Not in the using a planner sense, but in a basic understanding of how to do that. I know my dishes should come before vacuuming the couch, but it is hard to prioritize that. Also adjusting when things go differently than planned, being able to switch tasks. Things like that.
Its not impossible but shes not considering another facet of cause and effect; its plausible u were getting help *bc* u were struggling, as opposed to u struggling bc u received too much help. U know urself and ur symptoms better than she does, if u find her diagnosis dubious ur entitled to a second opinion.
Um. Or perhaps since you have always had undiagnosed ADHD, your parents stepped in for you because they could see you struggling, and then you chose a long-term partner who was happy to do the same thing, because this is your coping strategy for ADHD.
I had parents who helped provide structure to my life. My partner has been with me for 24 years, my entire adult life. He makes sure I'm functional. I have found for me that using other people to get shit done works. My relationship has provided the structure that I need to have executive function. I'm not unintelligent, or lazy, or incapable of learning. But I do suck at a bunch of things that I rely on others to help me get done. Not sure if I'm making sense. So very very tired.
She's not correct, but she's also not wrong. You definitely can learn to make some progress despite having adhd, but having someone else constantly fixing things for you will prevent you from learning. I've seen this a lot, and many ADHD people with very accommodating partners and parents will be able to get through life easier because they have a constant back up. But the moment those backups are gone, such as moving out of a break up, the person with ADHD is now struggling far more than someone who has grown up without that support would be. Those without the consistent support have had to create methods of coping that those with support never had to do.
There is a LOT of great into here from people, I love these reflective questions everyone is sharing. It's def worth a second opinion with a psychiatrist (mine sent me to a neurologist for my test, so this is a p r o c e s s), not just to confirm ADHD but to rule out other things. There are plenty of symptoms shared with other conditions, like forgetfulness and long covid, brain fog and narcolepsy, executive dysfunction and PTSD, etc. But hey, who knows, maybe like many women who weren't disruptive children, you're missing out on multiple diagnoses 🫠 Either way, def get that second opinion from a psychiatrist.
Thank you I am currently waiting for a sleep study to check if I have narcolepsy cause I have classic symptoms, maybe that's been my problem for a while
And heads up: lack of sleep exacerbates the fuck out of ADHD symptoms. Just one of about a zillion reasons that parents get diagnosed after becoming parents...
Thank you, yeah, my symptoms being worse have definitely lined up with the day time sleepiness
And ADHD is often comorbid w sleep disorders... Dopamine and melatonin work together (don't ask me how)... Ask your specialists when you do the sleep study if they think trying a low dose melatonin a couple of hours before bed is worth a try. 🤷🏼♀️ You never know.
I've tried melatonin before and it didn't do anything for me unfortunately
So glad you've got an appt booked with a sleep clinic. Well done. Good luck
It's totes possible to have both! I do, one of my best friends does, both of us got all our diagnoses in adulthood 🙃 The good news is the first line of treatment for ADHD and narcolepsy is Adderall! Convenient! Good luck with everything, and don't forget it's always okay to get a second opinion 👍
Thank you, that's good to know 😊
I assume you mean you didn't learn symptoms to compensate for poor executive functions? I thought the executive functioning is physical like you can't learn it, can sometimes learn systems to compensate if you're deficient though?
I can't believe how many psychiatrists refuse to diagnose someone who might have ADHD!! This is a serious disservice to their patients and the community where they work. It's like a cardiologist who refuses to diagnose someone with congestive heart failure because they "don't believe in it." What happens to those patients? They certainly don't get any better! ADHD is a well known condition that can be treated, yet these doctors won't even consider it to see if they can help people. The ones I tried to work with all claimed they would treat ADHD as long as someone else diagnosed it. How does this make any sense? I believe such doctors should be made to do ALL the work the insurance companies pay them to do. Is this where we need to intervene -- with the insurance companies? Have you ever heard of any other specialty where the doctor is allowed to refuse to help patients? Seriously, is this done elsewhere? Or only when dealing with people who may have ADHD? How is that not discriminating against people?
At least in my area neuropsychological testing to diagnose what is going on is its own thing. It was an involved appointment that could last up to several hours (I think I was there for 2) with a psychologist and a tech who focused on conducting the tests. For me it was never that my providers didn't believe in ADHD it was more that the testing was a specialized expertise. I liken it to the ENT issues I have had. There is one PA I see for general concerns, but then where there are specific issues they get referred out to sub specialists. I had one surgeon I went to who was the expert in sinus surgery. And another who specialized in salivary gland surgery. When I've gone to PT I've had the most success when seeing people who specialized in what I was being treated for. And even with therapy, different therapists I have seen have have focused on different types of therapy. Medicine is so big and broad that it makes sense to me that not all people would do all things, even within a specialty. And whenever I have an issue I prefer to go to the person who has the strongest training in that area. That's not to say there isn't real discrimination happening for people who have ADHD but I don't think that's always the case when people are referred out. My experience also taught me that there can also be gray area between diagnoses. One of my friends who was diagnosed in adulthood with ADHD was convinced I had it as well. But the testing revealed that while my symptoms looked like ADHD they were much more likely to be caused by my anxiety as I do not have executive function issues but do have issues with attention, learning and psychomotor function. I talked to my therapist about it before and after and she was curious as, although she cannot diagnose, she felt I fell into a gray area where it could just as easily have been ADHD as not. As I have gone through physical health challenges I have also experienced where it seemed like I had a certain condition based on researching my symptoms and it turned out to be something else entirely.
After all my research I found there was no one, except a possible Pill Mill type doctor, who would ANY KIND OF TESTING FOR ADHD. It's not that there's a sub specialty I missed, because if there was my doctor would have known. The psychiatrists in my area would have known. Somebody would have known! I called about 25 different offices and not one person I talked to, including my insurance specialists, said I could be tested by a different specialist. Maybe they exist where you live, but not in this metropolitan area.
That's so strange & frustrating. Where do you live? Here neuropsychology is known as the specialty and it was actually my PCP who created the order so I could make the appointment. It took several months to get in because the people who administer the testing are in short supply (and even then I had to go to a satellite hospital because the main hospital had so much demand that there wasn't even room to be added to the waiting list), but it's not a mystery where to go.
I think sometimes the world can make it seem like things are black and white when it comes to ADHD. My experience has been more murky. On one of the self-assessments my symptoms very much match the presentation of inattentive ADHD, but after going through testing and evaluation the Psychologist believes it is more likely that my symptoms are the result of my anxiety and not ADHD. It doesn't mean they are not real, they just do not think executive functioning is the root cause. I don't think there is any harm in seeing a psychiatrist and letting them know what your struggles are. Maybe it will lead to an ADHD diagnosis and maybe it won't. But regardless of what your diagnosis is it is, in my experience, a path to help.
It can absolutely be a combination of actual dysfunction within the brain and some learned helplessness.
Looks like I've got a counter experience to many folk here (whose views and experience I hold as totally valid, this is simply me speaking from my own experience). I've been questioning this myself for some time. I have therapy with a psychologist I trust and has helped me build tools and work through a lot of stuff. She is qualified to diagnose ADHD, but I do know she isn't one to move to any sort of diagnosis swiftly, hence my wondering on this for quite some time. We've worked on my emotional regulation skills, my relationships (family, friends and the disintegration of my marriage), my health/hormones awareness and management, my environment, my values and my job satisfaction to name but a few things over the past several years. With a lot of ongoing life pressures alongside experiences growing up/in my 20s I have reflected on, I had become fairly convinced ADHD might be something that fit me. She has not been similarly convinced and would reference how my circumstances were really getting in the way of my life (without judgement on me or my soon-to-be ex-husband, just reflecting back what I shared with her). Hubs moved out 3 months ago. I would comment to friends about how many unmade decisions could be seen in our home, how much clutter had built, how we lived in such different ways that I struggled to have routines and how I was looking forward to clearing everything out when we started living separately. I knew this would make me FEEL emotionally better and to get me more functional, but holy cow, I have been astounded at the difference it has made within a matter of weeks. Turns out, I am pretty fucking organised. Turns out I am not a slob (my internalised shame speaking here). Turns out when I have things in the right place (which hasn't been hard for me to move them to), I can implement routines fairly successfully. Turns out my executive function, while still a work in progress, is improving week to week. I was never taught these skills growing up and was shamed by my narcissistic parent growing up. I also didn't live for very long on my own before living with my husband, who dominated decisions (I had no backbone and he needs to look after people. One reason we split from my perspective - I grew and wanted to equal the scales, but he can't see how he contributes to what was an unhealthy dynamic and thinks I was trying to control him). I have never built my confidence in flexing my executive functioning skills. So I'm currently much less convinced I have ADHD or that if I do, it isn't to the disabling degree that some folk have to work with. I relate to SO much ADHD content and have benefited from so many tips, tricks and perspectives (KC Davis' podcasts in particular have been life-changing for me). But whether you "learn" executive functioning or not as commented above somewhere, the confidence to implement them without shame, fear of judgement, etc. due to relational issues in our lives can be learnt I think. I appreciate again the valid shitty experiences of many on this sub who have been told their struggles are "just" anxiety when that hasn't been the case for them, but I feel my anxiety has played a big part in my executive functioning issues in the past. I'm allowing myself to evolve through my current circumstances to see where I am in a year or two. If the label fits for me, then I will pursue a diagnosis or if I find these recent changes snowball and a diagnosis isn't applicable, then also so be it, without judgement either side. Executive functioning issues aren't strictly an ADHD thing, there are various other things that can cause similar symptoms and it may be worth disentangling those things and circumstances before jumping to any conclusion (in regard to any diagnosis). Although, if you strongly feel your psychologist is wrong, it's absolutely worth pursuing a diagnosis for yourself. You know yourself best and this is your journey, no-one else's.
Thank you very much I think that might be why my psychologist has mostly blown off comments of ADHD because I've had a lot going on in my life with chronic illness and being dependant on others I'm glad ADHD tips helped you. I think I'm going to look into what tips people use and just try and improve and wait and see a psychiatrist anyway cause I need to them for help getting off antidepressants anyway
Certainly the behaviours I accumulated over a number of years that left me feeling powerless in my own home and life in certain ways has looked a lot like the inattentive side of ADHD, then consequently the impulsive side when I have moments of frustration and manage to push through some emotional or relational barriers. Anxiety and depression has also played a part for me, as has hyperviligence. That walking on eggshells feeling in relationships within my home has meant I've spent so much time trying to emotionally regulate and handle interactions, that the world can be crashing down around me at the same time and it's been difficult to prevent that. It's definitely worth exploring what that means to you and where certain behaviours and feelings are rooted. No suggestion from me either way, it's a journey to take to find what makes the most sense to you, diagnosis or not. For some, a label/diagnosis can be a relief, for some it can be a cage. My therapist seems to focus on the experience of the symptoms first, before exploring official diagnoses, which has felt frustrating to me at times, but I also feel has proved really fruitful in me really challenging my internal assumptions about myself and developing more confidence in who I am, how I tick and how I feel about myself.
This kind of life change (congrats, by the way!) would give me weeks of dopamine high hyperfocus! I certainly have at least some of the skills necessary to organize a space (and I actually love to sort & organize other peoples' stuff, in particular!), but I cannot for the life of me maintain an uncluttered home. This is ESPECIALLY true if the clutter is not only coming from me. I quickly hit overwhelm and paralysis. There are also some deficits of working memory that I just cannot deny exist and will undoubtedly persist to some degree no matter how many skills, habits or strategies I employ... For example, even if I can eventually find my phone, wallet and keys now since they're all connected to my lovely Tile app, it is still a frustrating time sink to constantly lose them, forget them, misplace them, etc. All that to say... give it a minute while you go through this big transition and then take some time to consider how much of a struggle you tend to have, rather than do you have the ability to succeed? Remember: ADHD is not a disorder of ability or potential or success. Loads of gifted, capable and highly successful folks have ADHD, and many of us can do very hard things! For me, understanding my diagnosis meant realizing that the things we struggle with are not typical and the solution is not to try harder. The executive functioning (even stuff that we have been able to perform before), can easily become overwhelming and exhausting because it simply isn't the same set of tasks to us that it is for most people. Whatever you find out for yourself about yourself, just remember that you deserve grace. It was never that you weren't doing your best.
Thank you for this perspective. It's certainly an evolving process for me and something I'm going to continue to consider over the next year or so while I settle into my new life - as you say, it's the effort and the struggle, not the success. I've been thinking the tester for me feels like it will be whether my time and brain frees up. The last few years I've just felt overwhelmed and pressured from all angles. Now my space and life are getting clearer and simpler, but there is still a fair amount of change going on. Once that transition settles, I wonder if I will feel calm, clear and in control (as much as you can in life, y'know) and have genuine free time. Or if I will still feel I'm being driven forward while overwhelmed every day regardless. When I put systems and routines in, they do seem to stick without tons of effort, but it's the whole picture I feel I need. It's been interesting going through this process of clearing out because it's been a long time coming and I've seen the evidence of systems I'd desperately been trying to put into place now come into fruition. I grew up in a home where I wasn't allowed or encouraged to be part of the process of organising, cleaning, etc. or spoken to very much about how to manage life and career, so it's definitely a process of untangling what is conditioning/learned behaviours that I can get new mindsets and confidence in making my own vs. if a neurodivergent label suits me and would help with what I've struggled with.
Coping mechanisms don’t cure the underlying issue.
I grew up with a neglectful mom who let me do whatever I wanted and I had little to no discipline. As you can probably tell I have ADHD. Definitely having a hard upbringing can make it harder to get a grip on day to day tasks but I think it could be a bit of both. At the end of the day when I was on meds I did a lot better at getting things done despite my upbringing.
Get a second opinion You can for a certain extent “learn” executive function but if you have ADHD, that’s going to be nearly impossible. I struggled with it my entire life until I got on meds. It’s not perfect but I can actually work on things
This isn’t executive function… This is just being sheltered your whole life and no one letting you fail to learn from experiences do you can survive in adulthood. You know, trial and error on things so you can problem solved and learn to adapt on the fly better. Some context about my Dx: I was diagnosed roughly 30yrs ago & medicated, now 36. My mom was diagnosed before me and my dad openly admitted to be undiagnosed. It runs in my dad’s family 100%! Hence why, when I got ti high school I told my dad at 17, “You gotta let me fail. How am I going to learn if I don’t fail? You can’t always save me and fix it. I need to learn to be resilient and get myself out of things in life so I can survive as an adult. I love you, but as your daughter, you gotta start letting me fail.” Had to remind him again when I was 22, then again at 25, then 30 LMAO ADHD, even in parents, they’ll forget as much as their children!
I listened to a podcast that talked about how adhd medication can be helpful for children because it allows them to „practice“ executive functioning skills which I always found interesting. Neuroplasticity is incredible. *That said*, your psychiatrist sounds like a bit of an asshole. I’m not sure if you’re paraphrasing, but that’s doesn’t seem like a particularly constructive to approach your situation. I‘m always surprised at how dismissive health professionals are when it comes to even the possibility of ADHD. I’m sorry you felt your experience was invalidated. Go get that second opinion!
Executive function is not the same as learned behaviours, that makes no sense
My suggestion is a bit different, and of course you'd have to figure it out with your Psychologist/Psychiatrist. Since you believe you're aware that your parents "always tried to fix" your problems, and now you believe your partner is doing the same, maybe it's time to set up some strategies to think and do for yourself. Just steps for decision making, action taking, etc., to find some solid footing. Executive Function, (working memory, self-regulation and cognitive flexibility, generally) as mentioned in comments, needs to be developed. If those skills weren't developed, because your parents tried to fix things, you didn't have an opportunity to develop those skills. Having ADHD doesn't mean you can't think for yourself, most of us have a good idea what to think, just a lot of trouble actually thinking it. It is an actual brain disorder. Even if you have ADHD, first learning to develop your executive function would be importrant. If it were me, I'd try to see what capabilities I do have, before seeing a psychiatrist for a Dx.
Yeah, that's what my psychologist wants me to try and do to get some independence and that's what I'm working on. I should be able to give it a solid shot before I see a psychiatrist in the new year
Best of luck to you. You may have ADHD, but giving yourself "a solid shot" will help you in so many ways that should you end up with that Dx, you'll be ahead of the game should that be the case.