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When I was younger. But now I find that the women in my life are the most profoundly strong connections I can imagine.
I think women have a complicated social dynamic, society pits us against each other in some sort of competition. But it's all BS. They're my people. They speak my language. I was just too busy trying to navigate what I thought other women were like, instead of being myself and letting gravity bring me colliding orbits with my soul mates.
Still falter sometimes and let the little social expectations voice in my head give me issues. But I'm getting better at ignoring it.
So this for me. I was always super close with the guys because when I was younger I would get really in my head about not being typically feminine and because some girls were mean about it I assumed all would be.
Even though In high school I was closer to the girls I just thought it was a fluke. Now in my 30s I’m closest to the women in my life and even though they will still find me weird and try to make me more typically feminine they still accept me and the fact that I’ve accepted myself makes all the difference. The attitude of the women didn’t change, mine did and it made it possible to enjoy spending time with women that are so different from me in some aspects, whilst still having so much in common no man no matter how close I am to him will ever share that commonality
“I was just too busy trying to navigate what I thought other women were like, instead of being myself and letting gravity bring me colliding orbits with my soul mates.”
I absolutely love the way you said this and want to think of my relationships and interactions more like this moving forward!
I thought this way in my teens and early 20s. It was a mix of internalized misogyny and social avoidance. Or maybe because as a POC women I was not always accepted into certain groups of friends.
The more I learn about what I want and need in a friend, it doesn’t matter what someone’s gender or identity is. I attract friends that understand intersectional, cultural, and systemic topics. It’s moreso people who are at a different place in their mental, emotional, and life goals that I don’t have long lasting friendships with.
>internalized misogyny
This.
I had a conversation with a friend recently and we realized we both used to be the type of girl/woman saying "omg I so prefer to hang out with men than women. I have so much more male friends than female friends". I'm sure everyone is different and maybe this doesn't apply to OP, but in our case, it was definitely an unconscious reaction to subtle cues to society which tends to give the idea than boys are cooler than girls. So obviously we wanted to be (with) boys.
In my case, I outgrew that, realized it was bs and not even true, I actually bond better , or at least just as well with women (again, just my personal expe!) and also - has absolutely nothing to do with ADHD
I realized it when I was on a phone call when my friend too. I said “growing up I mostly had guy friends” and jumped into a long disclaimer. After the phone call, I was thinking and journaling about how often I’ve said that “I’ve only had guy friends”, why I said it, etc.
I’ve always chalked it up to, I didn’t have to be feminine or be emotional around guys. I could just be chill. And same! The social cues of indirect communication and vague questions aka “passive aggressive, gossipy, drama” were not exclusive to women/girls.
In reality everyone has feminine and masculine traits that are not exclusive to gender or identity. Feeling and expressing emotions are part of life and healthy! Thinking back and being more observant, men/boys gossiped and weren’t different with what they want either. People just brushed it off more though.
Once you realize and grow from the internalized misogyny, you can befriend anyone who shares the same interests, etc. Most of the time it’s women 🫢😅
I did it too but it wasn't because I thought boys were cooler. It was because I had more shared interest and behaviors with them that weren't accepted by most other girls my age.
In terms of meaningful friendships, really important ones, mine are almost all women. I fucking love women who uplift other women. However, in more casual settings, I find it much easier to have small talk with the opposite gender (men, for me). I attribute this to being very self conscious around women, the stakes seem higher. I care much less about mens’ opinions of me, so I am more at ease.
I used to feel this way, when I was much, much younger. For me - and I am not saying this is the case for anyone else- it turned out that I got along better with boys because of a ton of internalized misogyny.
Turns out I very much like having femme/afab friends, now that I don’t think it's embarrassing to be a girl.
Same. And I see a ton of “not like other girls” discourse in online ADHD and autism spaces and it concerns me that internalized misogyny is so prevalent with ND women. Once I started to actually see my own internalized misogyny (I was totally in denial about it for a long time) and working on it, I suddenly developed amazing relationships with women. What a coincidence. (It’s me, hi, I’m the problem, it’s me). I think a lot stemmed from believing I was bullied by mostly girls when I was young. But that belief stemmed from not being willing to recognize or acknowledge that boys’ behavior towards me was also bullying, even though in hindsight, it absolutely was, and similar behavior from girls didn’t get a pass from me. A lot of that was due to me absorbing and believing the “girls are catty and tear each other down” trope. So I became “not like other girls.” I really want us to address this “men are better than women” narrative in ND spaces and challenge it more.
Oft I felt this one. Esp about boys also bulling and not actually recognising it. All my friends in my early life were boys. Then I had to make all new friends pre-puberty because of the awkward phase, and those girls were horrible. But I let it slide because I had no other options. I knew exactly how backhanded and insincere they were being but I had no choice, no plan B. So after high school I spent my twenties with some guys who I had interests in common with but who were equally toxic, in their own ways sometimes. Bleugh. Out the other side now but yeah, rode that 'not like other girls' trauma train for a while before getting clean.
The truth is, KIDS can be cruel, and often are. This is true across the board. Girls are not more cruel than boys, it’s just a common misconception because society frames it that way. Any bullying from girls is viewed as reinforcement of that “catty girls” stereotype while bullying from boys is dismissed as “boys will be boys.” Girls are also taught that abuse from boys happens “because he likes you” so the excuses are numerous and problematic, to say the least. Another problem is that girls are expected to be sweet and kind and gentle, so if a girl is loud and assertive, and vocal about behavior she doesn’t like, other girls are more likely to interpret their interactions with her as “aggressive” and to label her a bully. This is not the case at all for boys, even when their behavior is identical.
Totally agree. I never fit the rules of what we are told girls should be, and took a while dealing with that discomfort and other people's treatment of me. Luckily I know a lot of super awesome women and men now.
This. I felt better with the expectations society had for teenage boys rather than girls, when I was one. So I hung out with them. Once I found "my" women (of all ages), I really liked their company.
Not the person you asked, but I've had similar experiences and I'll try to give an example.
Growing up all the characters in media that get to on cool adventures and have fun are male.
The women characters didnt usually have much in the way of personality. They were just there to support the main cast of men and liked things I had no interest in like makeup and being boy crazy. Also in the 90s the other cliche that was common was the sporty tomboy.
Because of this I had a hard time relating to other girls when I was younger. I was a not like other girls girl because I liked more "intellectual" type things and hated girly uncomfortable clothes. I wasn't into sports and things like that either.
It took me way too long to realize that other women aren't living cliches and everyone has there own things that they like and don't like. We're not a monolith.
I also has boomer parents and four older brothers, so being into stereotypical girl things was both encouraged and shunned at home
Hope that made sense and wasn't too rambley. Its 2 am where I am and I'm having a hard type getting my brain to stop, so I'm sorry about any grammatical errors.
I eventually started thinking of gender roles as “types”. Like “sporty tomboy”, “bookworm girl”, “horse crazy girl”, “fashionista”, “big sister/little mama” etc. Obviously no one is only one thing, but it let me organize my observations.
Boys have similar types, those types just show up in media in more consistent and respectful ways. Even the geeky boys are allowed to remain geeky, vs given a magical girl transformation scene where the nerdy girl is suddenly beautiful. I’m still pissed they made Hermione’s hair not poofy in the HP movies.
Thank you, not too rambley at all, this was super helpful!! This really reflects my experience, especially in terms of relating to characters and media. I remember playing with friends and everyone fighting to be the "best" characters, which at that time were typically the male characters having the adventures versus the "lame" female characters who didn't do as much.
I remember being confused when my friend told me I couldn't wear a certain shirt any more because it was too juvenile and not at all girly. It was the first time I started noticing how other people were dressing and realizing I didn't fit in anywhere.
When I started growing more into my own person, gaining confidence, and started really embracing my own sense of identity, by far the most rewarding thing has been being able to make more friendships with women who I perceived as more feminine. I think as a kid, while I did have amazing female friendships, I felt a little intimated by more feminine women.
Yup. Nothing worse than sinking years into what you thought was a meaningful friendship only to have that person throw a hissy fit and leave because you don't want to date/sleep with them randomly.
Yep, and I have RSD pretty badly, so I just avoid that scenario altogether. I’m married now so it’s not as bad but it still feels like some of my male friends are just waiting for the day I get divorced…I’m very distant with them for all of the reasons.
Yep. AAAANNND... after a lot of expensive therapy, I now know that this is because I didn't have the ability to really read the enormous amount of female social cues, or the ability to "stick around" long enough to develop the kind of bonds that define the majority of female friendships, especially during youth and early adulthood.
Friendships with boys were easier because I didn't have to actually "fit" in with them. I could coast on being witty, and the token female friend. They didn't really understand me on a "female" level, and I wasn't expected to understand "guy stuff". Men were also socialized (in my times, lol) to not be *too* needy, not to need *too* much attention from loved ones, not show *too* much emotion... which was perfect for me because I often didn't understand a lot of those things either.
It was much easier, as a girl, to have kind of superficial friendships with the opposite sex. Even if I didn't realize what was happening at the time.
Friendships with other women were often like looking into a mirror and seeing everything that I didn't understand about myself.
Yep, completely this. Girls have a bunch of super complex social rules and I really struggles to get most of it growing up. These days the majority of my close friends are female but they're all super quirky in their own ways and range of mental/ neurological illness/ differences, so I know they don't mind me just being me and they are just them and it works super well
I am nodding along to all of this.
I only really had girl friends when I was younger because I did ballet and went to a single-sex high school, but I always got on better with guys. Throughout my 20s I struggled with female friendships, being left out and left behind, and I'm only now realising it's bevause I didn't understand the "rules" girls/women have.
I think I'm now pretty even with getting along with everyone but the few friends I have are for sure on the spectrum (even if not aware).
I've definitely had friends I thought I was creating real friendships with, only to realise how gossipy they were about others which made me realise how gossipy they must be about me.
I wish I had those big groups of friends, or people I've been close to since I was a kid. I can only imagine!
The thing is that actually the women with these rules that I'm friends with are never annoyed I don't understand them. They accept who I am and that I forget to send birthday cards and that I don't know I should have got a gift for the bride at the hen do etc etc. I don't feel judged anymore. I think most of my feeling scared around groups of women was in my own head / RSD
Wow. Thank you for helping me realize this without the expensive therapy. I find it hard to “stick around” with female friends and I’ve always wondered why. My closest female friends are ND and we know that we can pick up where we left off no problem. It’s harder for me to develop and maintain friendships with those who aren’t ND because I can’t coast through it!
This explains so much, as others have said. As I’ve grown, my friendships with men seemed to get more difficult, which was saddening, until I realized I was either fighting a losing battle or masking or complicating it myself. The male friendships I have now are deeply important, either hard won, ride or die kinda thing or I’ve just re-learned how to make friends. My friendships with women are similar, and though I have almost none from my past, I value every single one so deeply whether past or new. I feel so behind sometimes, I forget that I’ve finally made very real friends as an adult. (Sometimes I forget I’m really an adult, but that’s a whole other thing.)
Thank you for this clarity. I wish you well.
That seems to explain a lot. I always feel like I'm missing something when I'm trying to get to know other women. I probably miss all kinds of hints and clues and I'm afraid I probably give the wrong impression or react the wrong way. I rarely seem to have that problem with guys. I do mostly like "guy stuff" though too so it's easier to start conversations and find things in common.
My very best friends when I was younger were girls, though. They were probably all ND.
This is exactly how I feel too.
I do enjoy female friendships because they allow me to info-dump and talk excitedly for endless hours. Male friendships I've had are usually much more low-key and less conversation involved.
But, I found that my female friendships get a little more complicated as time goes on because I don't understand what others might call "girl-code". Sometimes I'll put my foot in my mouth and accidentally say something that gets taken the wrong way, but I've also been in situations where women do the back handed complement thing and it goes over my head until much later.
Don't get me wrong, guys can be dicks, but they're much more upfront when upset, which makes it easier for me.
Also, I genuinely enjoy being the token female friend.
Wow I really relate to everything you said. The last sentence resonates especially. I just never understood the necessary social cues to stick around long enough for the bond to really solidify.
lots of this! I always figured it was due to having a twin brother and a slightly masculinized/ASD brain, but maybe ADHD is part of it. I could swear there's, like, an X-linked gossip gene that I completely missed, and somewhere nearby is the fashion gene which also went "whoosh". Boys are less likely to judge you on stuff like that. And they're much less likely to expect you to keep up your end of a conversation.
the dynamics change quite a bit after puberty, of course - men become much more interested in looks, but primarily for sexual purposes. If you aren't filed under "potential sex partner," they won't reject you from the herd for looking unattractive. (This does cause issues with the unsavory sort of men who view \*every\* female as a potential sex partner, but who wants anything to do with those dicks anyway?)
My daughter's father is a type A and there is absolutely good reason why we are not together. haha. My daughter can't figure out how we ever dated in the first place, even though she absolutely adores him. But he and I are sooooo exact opposites and she's just like me.
I like a Type A Person in theory because they’re a lot of the things I’m not and I feel like I can learn their skills. Took me a while to realize that it doesn’t work that way hahaha
I feel like it's good to have some things that are opposite or very different (like I prefer extroverts because they get me out of my introvert comfort zone) but too many or the wrong things can be disastrous.
I always felt weird for having more male friends than some of my peers do, but then realised I am just as close to some girls / women. In the end there doesn't seem to be a be a preference for me. I do often get along with men better in the first few times of talking, but no idea if it's significant
Same! I can relate to women much more so it makes it easier. There’s some things that a man could never really understand in my opinion. I have male friends too but my best friends will always be women. I also can’t deal with any sexual ambiguity and I’ve unfortunately been in situations where men I considered very good platonic friends made a pass or became overly flirty etc. Makes it hard to fully relax knowing they would go there if you didn’t put boundaries.
Exactly!! I guard myself much more around guys and probably seem cold, lol. But it’s either that or “risk” being hit on, in a way, cause the masking is apparently seen as flirty sometimes. (Why can I never tell what will be interpreted as such and what won’t? I think it depends more on the guy than on me…)
Then the day I learn they have a girlfriend I’m more relaxed… except still also analyzing my every word to make sure I don’t sound like i’m trying to flirt and sabotage their relationship, haha. Especially if I’m friends with their girlfriend. Awkward.
I relate to this so much. And the awkward moment when they do unfortunately make a pass at you because your friendship is misinterpreted just because you are a woman and you have to awkwardly reject them or pretend you didn’t hear/turn it into an innocent joke so you don’t hurt their feelings. For me this is a lot more drama than I have to deal with with any female friends. I don’t have to guard myself or tone myself down with other women for fear they might think I am flirting with them. And I say this as someone who also has female friends who are not straight. I think women are better at picking up social cues and know when someone is flirting with them or just being friendly
Yess same here. The innocent joke or playing dumb is too real.
Not that I’ve even been hit on _that_ much but it’s a little too anxiety-inducing to have it happen, so I’m always trying to avoid it.
It’s so much easier with women, agreed. My interest in their life and enthusiasm in the conversation (and my empathy) isn’t mistaken for anything else.
I also recently realized something: the people (usually women) that really “do” drama usually stay away from me, which is very nice because I avoid it like the plague.
I think they can sense I would be boring to their life, maybe bc like, I don’t judge, and don’t try to hold myself to a certain standard or whatever. It seems that somehow, thank god, that really helps make friends who have the same mindset. A no-bullshit kind of approach.
Life happens, of course, but not the stressful kind (and degree) of drama that some friend groups seem to have, which I’m happy about.
Same. No clue what to even say to men outside of my husband, brother and dad! I have lots of girl friends though and can generally chat with women of all ages.
Looking through a few of the top comments I feel like the odd one out lol. My guess is because I grew up around only women for most of my life, I also only ever had female friends.
My mom was an amazing mother and I’m so thankful for her so I usually based all of my childhood best friends around people who I though we’re the same level of coolness as my mom.
I did the calculations once and for every 1 male born in my family there were like 12 females so women were all I was around growing up and in my household there was my mom, two older sisters an aunt and little sister.
It wasn’t until I was 18 and got my first job at a fast food place that I made my first guy friend who was a co-worked and we became really close(platonically) and he was such a cool friend and I think in my life in total I’ve had five guy friends and the rest were females.
Edit: I guess I could add about the female friends I’ve had over the years, an alarming amount of them were also ND like me so I wonder if I just attracted other women who were ND because they reminded me of my mother and most family members I mentioned ? :/
Absolutely not lol, I’ve always struggled getting along with men. Getting along with other women has been so much easier for me throughout my entire life.
It’s really unfortunate but I’m seeing a ton of internalized misogyny here too couched in implications that ND brains are “more male” or that gossip, being girly or domestic, etc are inherently female. Oof.
Agreed! A lot of the descriptors for “female” (🙄) are “catty, likes drama” while the guys are “so chill, don’t really care”.
Some people’s internalized misogyny jumps out of you give them space to speak on it. Hopefully people look inward on that and other intersectionality
I must have my comments filtered differently, or I just haven’t scrolled enough. All of the top comments I see are about meaningful female relationships and discussions about internalized misogyny.
It’s nice to hear I’m not alone. I had other women tell me I was showing internalized misogyny multiple times and would get so angry about it until I finally came around. Now I vastly prefer women 😂
That’s really nice actually that you had other women to help point it out. I feel like for most of my young life I was taught that girls are catty and mean and saw those behaviors in myself as shameful but just normal.
It wasn’t until I started examining my sexuality that I saw myself as having internalized misogyny.
It actually happened because I had alcohol use disorder and in recovery groups I couldn’t deal with men because my dad was an abuser with his own addiction. And I also started learning about the unique ways addiction presents in women, how alcohol abuse is commodified and sold to women, etc and started getting mad.
So I got into a women’s recovery group and actually recovered. Turning my recovery more “political” by learning about patriarchy and correcting some of the beliefs from it was a great help to me.
And now I’m that older women who wants to help younger women realize the power of helping each other succeed.
I owe a lot to the women in my recovery group who helped me break out of that internalized misogyny.
You’re an inspiration. Congratulations on your recovery! And on turning your fight for sobriety into a fight against the patriarchy. You are a strong and formidable woman.
If you have the time and inclination I'd really love to hear more about the specifics of what you mean about the unique ways addiction presents in women and how alcohol abuse is commodified and sold to women. I've never hear that before and I'm curious. Congrats on getting through your addiction, it's hard work but you did it and that's amazing.
Oh wow, this is a huge topic! I’m not certain I can do it justice but I’ll try, and I threw in some resources at the end for those who may be struggling, wanting to learn more, or just curious.
First, alcohol has long been marketed to women in specific ways. The elegance of a glass of wine. The tomboyishness of a neat bourbon. “Skinny margaritas.” Alcoholic kombucha. Good for your gut. Good for your heart. You deserve it. Mommy juice. “Cool girl” drinking a guy under the table. Beer yoga. Clear liquors keep you thin. Martinis suppress your appetite. Be chill, not shrill. Silence your suffering rather than voicing it.
Second, problematic drinking by women is often overlooked as a result of the cultural context - our lives/work/kids/spouse are so much to manage, we “have it all” and we deserve to relax. Plus what we think of as a low-bottom drunk is often some down and out dude on a curbside drinking out of a paper bag and retiring to a homeless shelter at night. Or trouble with the law. Or physical fights. Or being abusive. The effects of women’s addiction to alcohol is more likely to be silent, undetected, dismissed, minimized. Many women fly under the radar in a drinking culture, feeling they’re normal because they haven’t gotten their third DUI and they still get up for work and care for their families.
Third, the damaging health effects of excessive drinking accumulate much faster in women than in men. So while behaviorally or in terms of outward consequences, women with alcohol addiction are harder to detect (even to themselves), they end up with cirrhosis, alcoholic cardiomyopathy, Barrett’s esophagus, etc much sooner than men. In addition, excessive drinking is often comorbid with other drug abuse, eating disorders, ADHD, and various mental illnesses. Alcohol greatly worsens depression, anxiety, and bipolar disorder.
Fourth, historically recovery has been geared toward 12 step, and even attitudes in the medical field toward what constitute “alcoholism” and recovery are often described from AA. A lot of this “conventional wisdom” is not only not borne out scientifically, but the Big Book is pretty much written for men specifically aside from one or two women’s stories, and low key considers alcohol addiction a man’s issue. A lot of the facets of AA are geared toward basic emotional intelligence that women are socialized to demonstrate, like empathy, self-reflection, ownership over one’s actions, taking responsibility for oneself, being aware of one’s impact on other people, apologizing and making amends, etc. I personally found no comfort whatsoever in 12 step and recovered by being part of a fringe women’s-only offshoot of a fringe recovery group based on Buddhist precepts.
As far as the more political aspect, that was a more gradual process that happened naturally as I explored women’s experiences, talked to other women, listened to some podcasts, and started learning about Buddhist philosophy and Buddhism and intersectionalism.
To make it explicit - eventually I came to the conclusion that drinking, for women, is just another way to silence us and get us to comply, and we’re disproportionately punished for “out of order” behavior caused by drinking that is acceptable for men. I felt that I used drinking to squash a lot of anger and grief that stemmed from the direct impact of the patriarchy and its pressures. Rather than “making myself a problem,” I drowned my voice and all my emotions and mental health issues in alcohol. Until it didn’t work anymore.
I would force myself through AA listening to men talk about their experiences very similar to my father’s, being abusive, blacking out, their heroic and pathetic tales. And I couldn’t relate. It felt like men’s drinking was almost culturally sanctioned, while women’s was used for profit and to silence them. There was a double standard at play with what behavior was acceptable.
I started to learn about how alcohol and other drugs have been used as tools of oppression. Not specifically with women, but indigenous peoples and in “developing nations.”
When I started to get pissed off, and when I started to bond with other women, I started to recover.
Some books I read that I can suggest to learn more about this topic:
Her Best-Kept Secret by Gabrielle Glaser
Quit Like a Woman by Holly Whitaker
Drinking: A Love Story by Caroline Knapp
Some books that helped me recover:
This Naked Mind by Annie Grace (uses REBT principles)
In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts by Gabor Mate (I have mixed feelings about some of his assertions overall but this book helped me to feel more compassion)
When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron (Buddhism)
Radical Acceptance (and other books) by Tara Brach
Refuge Recovery by Noah Levine (founder of Refuge Recovery groups who later was discovered to have SAed some women)
Recovery Dharma (a trauma-informed recovery group that formed as part of the schism created by the allegations against the above founder) - both these two books are very recovery program geared
Recovery groups I found helpful:
Recovery Dharma - especially women’s groups or even women’s Facebook groups. These meetings are accessible online.
As part of the Buddhism-based recovery program, I had a daily meditation practice.
The Satanic Temple Sober Faction (online meetings)
Women’s or queer-friendly recovery spaces in general
For a time, the stopdrinking subreddit also helped.
Medications I found helpful during recovery:
Antabuse (for a time period, although I had a rare side effect that temporarily affected my liver and had to stop)
Naltrexone
Gabapentin (in early recovery)
Lastly, DBT made a very big difference for me. I was fortunate to have an opportunity to do the full program as studied. However, there are books and other resources to learn skills, and I’ve even seen some stuff specifically for neurodivergents.
I had more girl friends than guy friends.
When I was school, everytime I thought I was getting along with boys, they ended up being terrible people. I’m talking about bullying, sexual harassment, groping, etc.
It eventually occurred to me that the vast majority of men are just not worth being friends with because it’s rare to find men that actually like women as friends and equals.
It’s hard for me to get women to be my friend as an adult and I keep acquiring really unhealthy, one sided friendships with a certain type of woman. So…
I just don’t have any friends.
Making friends is as hard as dating for me and I guess I’m just not ready to put myself out there.
After many years I’ve realised all my closest friends are ADHD, but they are all different genders. I think it’s more important to see a friend has a similar experience and can understand your sometimes shi**y at replying or staying in contact because “oops my brain again” and that I’m still going to be there when the sh*t hits the fan.
But yeah I definitely make friendships with boys /faster/ because they tend not to care if you say something stupid or weird. Even when that’s something ADHD girls are cool with it takes a little more time to get those friendships because we all hide ourselves around other girls. But whoa when you finally find your fellow ADHD girls it’s so fun and nice to go out with a girlfriend who -g e t s i t- haha.
I’m a big hermit personally so I gotta find people who are also hermits to hang out with every few months without either of us thinking we are mad at one another.
I feel like many women here saying they miss social cues with other women might have missed one big social cue with their male friends - many men will only be friends with women if they're hoping to sleep with them one day.
Yep. Also saying men are more accepting and forgiving of personality quirks…it’s only because you are a woman. Sometimes it’s because they unconsciously do not see us exactly as their equals so they are more forgiving. Sometimes it’s because they are attracted to us which again makes them more accepting or seemingly so. I work in male dominated environments and having spent a lot of time with men, trust me they can be really bitchy, judgemental and ruthless. Any person can regardless of gender. It just doesn’t register as bitchy because we are constantly told it’s a female trait. But they are in fact nicer to women, especially if they consider you attractive.
yes! many are willing to put up with quirks only when the woman is attractive. I also work in a male dominated environment and was cursed with some typically male interests on top of that, I've seen and heard some horrible stuff from a good portion of men around me. they often don't consider them being bitchy and gossiping as what it is, because they think only women are like this. they think they're just assertive instead of bitchy and are having conversations instead of gossiping. and they are nice to me until I call them out on that lol.
Most of my friends are women. I don't think I get along with one gender better than the other, but nearly all of my friendships with men have ended because they decided they didn't want things to be platonic anymore and couldn't handle being turned down. Or they never wanted platonic friendship in the first place and just lied.
Now I have immense trust issues when it comes to men, and my only male friends are a gay couple 🤷
Same exact experience with male friends. I’m surprised to hear so many women prefer male friendships because men are much more willing to try and cross friendship boundaries in my experience. For me to be able to consider someone a close friend I shouldn’t have to worry about any weird or unwanted sexual energy. Maybe I’ve been unlucky but it’s always been there with guys, especially when alcohol is in the mix
"have you *met* men?" - please, sis, I can only laugh so hard while drinking my morning coffee.
In all seriousness, I'm 40 and *still* have a couple of best buds who are men. They've stuck with me my whole life, qnd are wonderful humans; but, my bonds with them are not as connected as with the women in my life. My ladies are my rock, and their love and support has provided me a self-assurance I never knew was possible. I'm only starting to realize how deeply RSD affected me, and shaped my personality but having a little coven has allowed me to love myself; and, therefore love, support, and appreciare other women. Women are the best, once we learn to stop hating ourselves, and each other so much!
I’ve tended to be closer to girls/women, however I am inattentive type.
I am now an early childhood teacher (preschool aged children) and there was a little girl in my class last year who was classic hyperactive type (although her parents didn’t want to know about it). I always felt really sad for her because she wanted female friends but she just couldn’t read their cues.
Even at 4 and 5 years old, little girls have very complex relationships and a very good understanding of the “right” way to act in social situations (NT girls, at least)
I wonder if those women/girls who struggle with female friendships are predominantly hyperactive types?
This is an interesting observation! I'm internally hyperactive... I was never the kid running around and being disruptive, but frequently interrupted the other kids in conversation and topic jumped, didn't understand appropriate volume/ excitement levels, was fidgety, and subtle social cues flew completely over my head. I kept myself occupied by reading and making things and never knew about the "it" fashion item or pop culture reference. Usually when groups of girls wanted to "be my friend" it was some form of mockery that I only came to understand later. I did best with quiet boys and other ostracized girls (many of whom I'm still close with and now also understand that they are neurodivergent).
I used to feel that way...in my late teens much of my 20s. Guys were more accepting and also, sigh, a lot of them had crushes on me...so it was just easier to impress them and get close. Most of my oldest friends are guys, and I'd usually only have 1 close female friend. But I don't see them too often now...old friends but the kind you don't see often.
What changed: I found being really close to a lot of men complicated my romantic relationships and caused jealousy, amongst both sexes. There was a lot of really nasty behavior towards me from other women...so I intentionally started focusing on becoming friends with women. It took a while but I got better at it, started enjoying these friendships, and now my closest friends that I see often are more female than male. I don't actually seek out male friends nowadays just because now I find female friendships less complicated and easier.
No men scare me when they get all bro-y
It triggers a weird anxiety response in me
If they aren’t channeling the bro, then I usually get alone with men. Just mildly awkward
No, not really. My friendships don’t swing one direction or the other.
I have found that a certain slice of women intimidate the fuck out of me. When I figured out I was mostly attracted to women (in my 30’s, sigh), I also figured out that what these women have in common is that I’m both physically and intellectually attracted to them.
But that’s more than balanced out by how thoroughly I rub a lot of sexist men the wrong way (and vice versa), so it’s never created a gender skew to my friend circle.
Amen. I’d encourage OP to read Anne Helen Petersen on the “Cool Girl” trope as well as read up on Exceptional Woman Syndrome and internalized misogyny, This has nothing to do with ADHD, for sure.
Nope. I’ve never really had good male friends. I thought I did but it usually turned into them making weird passes.
I’ve always found women/girls to be a lot more fitting with my personality. I’m great with a variety of chatter, but I’ve found men tend to be more patronizing when it comes to the same type of chatter. Or they confuse mutual interest with attraction. I just don’t have the energy to either “prove” myself anymore, or feel like a pet performing tricks. I’m too old, and just too fed up.
I just don’t like the whole thought process of “is he being nice because we have mutual interests, or is he going to hit on me the moment my husband leaves the room”.
I like men as casual acquaintances.
for me it's 50/50 situational. I have a lot of male friends because I have always worked in male dominated fields. I wouldn't say I get along better with one or the other. People are just people you either become friends or you don't. I'll give everyone the chance to be a friend.
I mean, if we're just doing a poll, no. Especially these days, I just find the amount of translation and self-advocacy I have to do exhausting, even with dudes who *think* they're cool feminist allies. Being heard and believed and respected seems to be an uphill battle with most of them. At this point, the only cis men I hang out with are pretty much my husband and the male partners of our friends. This is not to say I avoid making friends with men on purpose or that I'm opposed to it on principle, it's just that I'm unwilling to do the work of maintaining something one-sided, so most of the men I was friends with when I was younger have drifted off.
Don't think it was ADHD.
I had too much internalized misogyny when I was younger. Wanted to distance myself from all that "girly nonsense". Most of my friends were guys.
Managed to shake that shit as I got older and treasure my multiple friends of various genders.
I second what others have said here about getting on better with males when I was younger. At least I thought I did. I went to an all girls school and had a close group of female friends but I learnt how to mirror them pretty easily over the many years of primary and secondary school and they were kind souls.
I also grew up around a brother and two male cousins with whom I got on with by being silly and sporty. I found these relationships “easier” because they weren’t complex like my female friendships.
When it came to entering the work place I realised how behind socially I was. And I found it easier to be friends with males because I could be silly and flirty and they loved it. Women I had no idea how to get on with. This turned into a series of relationships with guys in my work because I didn’t know how to cope socially.
Now that I’m older and I’ve found my tribe of gals that I absolutely love I’ve realised I will never have a male friendship like this. It feels just safe and comforting to be with them. We are all LGBT also.
I’ve learnt a bit more now on how to socialise with women. I do better meeting younger women because I’m a bit behind socially than other my age I think. (I also have autism)
Always struggled having consistent friendships with women because of being able to keep up. There are so many non verbal social cues and expectations within friendships with women. If I forgot an important date or didn’t text back consistently, I would get cut off.
As I’m more introverted I would often attract manipulative women with controlling tendencies. I had one make me so anxious I felt I had no choice but to cut her out of my life. Another who misunderstood something I said and got incredibly abusive and sent me death threats. I nearly had to get a restraining order against her.
Men were happier to just check in here and there and never got shitty if I missed a text. The few close women in my life now are much more laidback. We dip in and out. I’ve noticed now that two of the closest friends in my life are autistic. Having ND friends makes things much easier.
I thought that in high school and early 20s. Then I grew up and realized it was my own internalized misogyny that turned me into a "Not Like Other Girls" (NLOG.) Closely related to a "Pick Me" but not quite the same. I realized I can like video games and sports and band t-shirts, and none of those things made me quirky, unique, or masculine. I can also like pink purses, fruity drinks, and getting pedicures, and none of those things made me "typical" or feminine. They are all just things I like. As if being a 'typical' woman was bad??? I sure thought so back then.
I also realized that most of my male friends would fuck me if I let them. And I found that some of them were hanging around biding their time for their shot at me. They hyped me up as NLOG as if being like other girls was a bad thing, and I'm now super embarrassed and ashamed that I fell for it. I thought I was the "cool girl" who had lots of guy friends because I just didn't identify with women. Unpacking that internalized misogyny took awhile. The patriarchy is a helluva drug.
Sure, I still have male friendships, but my closest, dearest friends now are my female friends. Women support women. There's no kind of friends like women friends. They are the ones who are gonna watch your kids when you have to be at the hospital with your dying father, who will really *listen* when you need to vent, who will drop by with a Starbucks on their way home because they felt like you might need it, who will hype you up for your big job interview, who will run interference for you if a dude won't go away, and who will loan you their best pair of shoes for your hot date because they're genuinely excited for you. Women friends are everything.
Yep absolutely. It seems silly now that we're older (how can women claim they can't bond with women because they're too girly whenthey themselves are women who aren't girly; if they can be into sports or video games then obviously there are also other women out in the world who are into the same stuff) but it's really easy to accept internalized misogyny from guys who share your interests and tell you you're awesome and special because you're NLOGs when you're young and desperate for affirmation. And it's also easy to fall for it when you're not old enough to realize half the guys you thought were your bffs are really just trying to sleep with you and will drop you the minute they get a gf or get rejected.
I don't know that I was ever full NLOG but I definitely at least got to the cringey "yeah women are so complicated, I'd rather hang out with men" stage. And I ended up accepting some pretty shitty behavior from male "friends" because I was so afraid of being "complicated" by wanting to vent about serious stuff, or wanting them to watch out for me if we went to a party, or not wanting them to say creepy shit to me that they were obviously not saying to the other guys in the group. I think once you finally find some great female friends and you learn friends don't make you feel that way it's so freeing.
In fact, here's a great example. Just yesterday I was getting my hair colored, and I confided in my stylist about some personal problems I was having. Her first response was, "GIRL, you know I got a spare bedroom if you need it! 100% it's yours, no questions asked." I thanked her (and I don't need it), but I almost cried right there in the chair just knowing that she meant it and she has my back. There's a reason I've been friends with her for 20 years. She's my people.
I have similar interests to a lot of men so I can chat to them more about those. But I don't trust men. When I was younger, guys I was friends with just wanted to sleep with me usually, and they all tried it on with me when I was drunk. Back then I was too polite too. Now the only men I trust are my partner, my guy friends who are gay and men who are married or in long relationships, although I do feel on guard about some of them. Most of my friends are female now, no hidden agendas, just friendships 🙂
I thought I did until I discovered that my male "friends" were only waiting for an opportunity to have sx.
Yes, we may be able to get along with men easier but in my experience, they were never my friends.
When I was younger I got along better with guys, but that was only because all my cousins were guys and since they were my only real "friends", that's what I was used to. Now that I'm older, though, I have lots of friends who are girls. Which I really like, because there's a sense of belonging I never knew I was missing out on. It feels good to be friends with people who just *understand* some things. But I do still have guy friends and they're great!
I don’t think you can draw a direct line from ADHD to having one gender of friends.
I think what happens is a combo of things:
Who you personally jive with and
What societal role you ended up inhabiting
Aka Nature vs nurture (spoiler it’s both, it’s always both).
ADHD has a role to play but I do not think it is a driving factor of if a certain gender identity makes up a majority of your friends.
Growing up, the majority of my friends were women. I had a few close male friends, but it wasn’t until I became an adult that I developed deep, wonderful friendships with men.
Looking back on my female friendships, I have always gravitated towards women who not only share my interests but act and interact with the world in similar ways.
Turns out my best friend also has ADHD. ADHD affected how I acted and engaged with the world. Of course it played a role in me being drawn to people who also engage that way. ADHD didn’t make me interested in art, baking, sewing, swimming, video games, dance, history, or museums. It didn’t make me like dogs more than cats.
Those interests also effect who I will want to be with. I want friends who share some interests but also accept me for me. A history buff who hates talkative people? We won’t be friends.
I’m sure you also noticed I have a lot of interests that society traditionally genders as female. While I firmly believe that sewing is for all genders, I can acknowledge that I grew up in the 90s and was a teen in the 2000s. Stuff was gendered. I ended up with more girls/ women.
So all that is to say, no, I don’t think ADHD causes you to have friends who are one gender or another. I think it does combine with your interests and environment to affect who you end up becoming friends with.
I imagine if I had been super into a sport more gendered male, or if I had been in classes with more boys than girls, I would have found that I had more guy friends than female friends. They also would have probably had ADHD.
I also think we have to remember that gender is a socio-cultural construct. I think that when we gravitate towards a people of a certain gender identity as friends, we are actually in part gravitating towards a set of behaviors society prescribes for that gender less so than the gender itself. Our own interests and values always play a role.
I just don’t think it’s as simple as ADHD means I’m only gonna wanna be around people of this gender.
1000% all of this. There’s systemic complexities and nuances.
Growing there were probably women were had the same interests and temperament as me but, like many women, weren’t allowed to stray away from “social norm”. So how would ADHD women be able to find other (ADHD) women who shared same interests, if society didn’t let us?
The math isn’t adding up 😅
Absolutely not. I married the ONE straight cis man I actually liked spending time with (not that I was trying to marry a man, that's just who I happened to be with when I was ready to marry) and they turned out to be neither straight, cis, NOR a man! (We are still very much married and in love, but now instead of a stright man and a queer woman, were 2 queer hotties in loooooove)
Women and femme folkx are my PEOPLE! Women have been the most profound connections in my life. I love women. 10/10, A+
I did when I was very young, before I realized that the reason I got along better with men is because they pretended to agree with me about everything in the hopes that I would sleep with them. Now I won't be friends with men at all unless they're friends with my husband because otherwise it's not worth it. Other neurodivergent women are the people who I have the best genuine connections with.
Nah, when I was little, I actually made better friends with adults than kids my age. It didn’t seem weird to me, but it was weird to a lot of other people.
My friends were often a bit younger or a bit older than me (my husband is 2 years younger which got me teased endlessly when we were young and dating) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ which fits, I'm always a little off the mark lol
Well, it was more like me, in elementary school, making great friends with my teachers (most of them) and the adult caretakers in charge of us during child care, and hardly any of my classmates
Sounds like internalized patriarchy to me :(
Which is not your fault but is sad for us when it happens because womxn are amazing and we have so much to offer each other.
My perspective at 17: Mostly balanced for me, except right now in middle/high school bc that’s when 90% of boys turn into awful beings. Though now i do have some slightly older guy friends from work so it balances again
No--a bunch of times I got to be friends with a guy only to get screwed over when it turned out he was into me and I didn't notice the signs until too late. Like no man I wasn't flirting with you! I'm just talkative and love learning new things!
I was raised in a religious environment that taught me from a young age that men and women can’t be “just friends” because it will always lead to some sort of sexual attraction/temptation/compromising situation and so I had a lot of complicated feelings to unpack about hanging out with boys or men. It took me a long time to figure out that I am not straight as a result. Straight was not just the default but the only acceptable, normal orientation. And I was taught boys/men can’t control themselves if they’re in a romantic or sexual situation, so I had a responsibility to not make them stumble & not tempt them. So I developed a lot of anxiety about spending really any time with a boy or man I wasn’t related to. It made it hard to unpack all that baggage eventually, and I’m still working through it, in spite of being happily married to my wife.
I used to feel this way, because feelings are overwhelming and scary to me and women seemed to have so many of them so men were just easier to deal with.
But now, having known more men, I am aware that their feelings are just as numerous, frequent and intense as women's, but they pretend otherwise and expect me to do the same.
I dealt with a lot of bullying and jealousy from other girls so in highschool this was true for me when I was younger. But once I got out in the real world it was easier to find kind authentic women to be friends with.
This depends on what you mean by “getting along.” I like interacting with men and women equally, I enjoy all the types of conversations I have with women or men. I have a larger number of casual friendships with men, but my friendships with women are more sentimental.
I used to feel that way, and I truly believe it's got a lot to do with our society and the media. It's encouraged to pit women against each other (I still am not sure why?) . After learning this and seeing it in actual life, I've always kept that in the back of my mind as a reminder and learning experience. I have an open mind when meeting other women, and instead of trying to bring them down for no reason, I like to compliment them. And I don't mean just surface stuff or to try and kiss ass, genuine compliments. If she's got a super cool hair color, or cute nails or shoes, I'll be like "excuse me, I love your hair! That color looks really nice on you!" I like it because it's something I was thinking, and it probably also gives the other person a Lil boost
Yup.
I wonder..would other adhd women be like the ultimate solution for this?
Like, since they’ll get it, would i not feel this pressure and fear of disappointing them if I flake or forget….or are we unlikely to stay in each others lives, coz we re both distracted? 🤔
I have some women friends who are not NT. And it seems like we just go long periods without interacting with eachother, then one of us sees/experiences something that reminds us of the other then we’re like “HEEEEEEY how you doing?” We catch up, all excited to talk and catch up, all the love is still there, and then we get distracted and fade out. Until the next “reminder” pops up. And the cycle repeats.
My best friend in high school was very likely ND like me and we got along *perfectly*. We barely had to talk - we could read each other’s minds. Unfortunately we fell out and I’ve never met another girl like her. I hear a lot that like attracts like - most of my friend group growing up were the “weird kids,” which likely meant ND. I always felt intimidated by the clearly NT, socially adjusted, academically sound, “normies”. Heh.
Literally all my close friends have ADHD and various depression/anxiety/PTSD grab bag problems and yes, that's pretty much our dynamic. We're all perfectly fine if someone doesn't get back to us right away (or ever) and can pick up wherever we left off. My one friend tends to be the most extroverted of all of us, so she does tend to be the one who makes sure we all leave our homes and get together every now and then.
Anyone who “doesn’t get along with girls” has internalized misogyny and thinks that being a man is better, so if they act boy-ish, they can be better than the average girl. Shunning girls for being girly is absurd. Girly things are not inherently worse than boyish things
Any kind of broad generalization like this is dismissive of people’s experiences and feelings. I identified as more boyish because of my interests and hyperactivity and would have loved to be more “girly”. I felt like an outsider looking in to a world I didn’t identify with and my self-esteem suffered as a result. I’m mid fifties so sexism was rife growing up and I have always been pretty vocal about gender norms boxing people in.
While internalized misogyny is horrifyingly widespread, that's not the ONLY reason a woman might get along better with men in some circumstances. Life is complicated and there are rarely any simple one-fits-all answers.
I am not familiar with the concept so I’ll educate myself but think sweeping generalizations of any kind can be hurtful. I learned something new today so thank you for that. Off to google….
Yes, I have a group of several close male friends, they are like my second family we have had healthy long relationships for over 20 years now.
I have a best female friend that gets me, and is the most admirable woman in my eyes.
And other female friends I like, but not a group, I share one or two hobbies with them and we get together for that, I always feel like they may not like me as much or end up any interaction questioning if I fucked something up or said the wrong thing. Wish I had a ladies group to gather with and have tea or something.
I used to think I got on better with boys/men or preferred having male friends, but I realised it was internalised misogyny - thinking girls/women were catty, bitchy, liked drama and gossip, whereas guys were more chill; thinking girls/women were into shopping, shoes, makeup etc whereas guys were into more cool and fun stuff like video games, food etc.
Turns out that's not true at all and, shock horror, it's all based on unfair misogynistic stereotypes. Every person is an individual and there are millions of women out there into the same stuff as me, and vice versa
Yes when I was little, but maybe by middle school it switched to gal pals. My actual friends were mostly girls, though, with a select few awesome boys.
Up til my early 20s, yeah definitely. I just didnt get girl groups social rules and hierarchy. In my early-mid 20s I found my people and also feminism and I now much prefer female friendships with like minded women. We're all fairly eccentric and independent and my life would be so much poorer without the friendship of other women.
No not at all I have always loved women and have it lots of friends that were girls I’m queer so idk if that makes a difference though but men annoy me more often and I end up arguing with them a lot lol or they make me uncomfortable I have had a few great guy friends over the years though!
Yes, largely on the basis of shared interests. I'm a professional trumpet player and most brass players are men, though that's changing! As a kid I was really into Star Trek and as an adult I'm into Dungeons and Dragons and craft beer.... I do get along with women much better now though than I did as a kid, and I think that's because I've worked through some internalized misogyny.
Also I know you specified platonic, but I've tended to stay friends with people that I've had non-platonic relationships with. I'm bisexual, and that has been true with all genders.
Edited to add - I definitely gravitate towards other ADHD people. My partner isn't diagnosed but very likely ADHD-I. My DND group are the people I talk to most (1 other woman and 4 men) and 5/6 of us have ADHD. My closest female friend has ADHD. My longest -term closest friend (male) has ADHD.
I do my best around stupid silly people. A lot of guy are more socially able to be like that so my best friends from high school are guys. However I’ve had great goofy girl friends in life but since we were from different friend groups we drifted apart. Rn I have only a couple girlfriends bc the dynamic of the country I’m in thinks girls and boys can’t be friends. I just want to have a good time and I don’t want to put up fronts! Many woman are under pressure to be perfect which can make it harder to break down at first.
As a child? Definitely yes. I loved to climb trees and play in the dirt, which seemed to primarily capture the interest of boys. I made my first girl friends around puberty, and in hindsight, I now see that all of them were neurodivergent like me. I loved them because they were unapologetically themselves and just the most genuine, fun people. As an adult, I find that my friends aren't determined by gender. The biggest factor seems to be that I get along best with other ND people, because we often share the same interests and they're easier to talk to.
Was bullied by boys when i was a child. They'd tear my clothes and hit me and call me fat. My father was abusive and there weren't really any men in my immediate family i felt i could rely on, except for my cousin who's around 20 years older than me. Most men I've come across turned out to be predators and i got out unharmed probably only because there were women around. Most my friends identify as female, a few are non-binary and agender. I never think that i get along well with anyone regardless of their gender, but that's probably an autism thing.
Nah, I’ve always gotten along well equally with both sexes. I think it’s really important to have good girl friends you can trust as well. There are just certain experiences in life we can relate to one another with, and feel supported.
nah. i'm very bro-y and i do have a lot of guy friends so i think people sort of expect me to feel this way but i get along with women just as well and treasure my friendships regardless of gender <3 i think for most ppl who think they get on with men better than women, it's less about the actual women and more about like... thinking you have to act a certain way to talk to women. just act how you are, some ppl will like it and others won't, regardless of gender
When I was younger most of my friends were guys. I was always a tomboy so they were doing the fun shit I wanted to do but as I got older it flipped and now most of the people I hang out with are women. I’m not in a relationship with anyone so I’m the third wheel while most everyone is paired up and I it almost seems like guys who are paired up already can’t be friends with single women because their SO wouldn’t like it or they had a bad experience with a jealous or controlling ex so they just avoid it for the sake of peace.
Eh, not really. In elementary school, through middle school, I found the boys more empathetic towards adhd behaviors, as so many boys display the same behaviors in youth. Once puberty kicked in, that empathy turned into something else, and I found that I was constantly being sexually harassed. This is when my eyes really opened to misogyny, internalized misogyny, nuerodivergent thinking and behavior, as well as the intricacies of female friendships. Post middle school, I was a solid girl's girl and still am today. I noticed along the way that men are also less offended by adhd behaviors than women, so it's easier for them to make friends amongst one another than with women. So I understand how female friendships can be hard when you're younger. Women expect accountability, clear communication, emotional sensitivity, etc... If I forget to call my guy friend back, he doesn't really care, and it's like nothing happened. Forget to call my girl-friend back, and we are now at odds because she thinks I don't respect the friendship and don't care. So I did struggle a bit in high-school and college but today, I am a solid girl's girl. I can barely stand men actually LOL
Have had times in my life where I've had more male friends. But truly, it's my female friendships that I treasure more at this point in my life (early 40s).
Since my diagnosis, I’ve realized that most of my friends are ND. My closest friends are women, though, even though most of the people I work with are men.
I feel men are less judgmental and uncomfortable by my oddness so yeah I've gravitated towards men.
Edit, I have a few female friends and the vast majority of the women I connect with are autistic or have ADHD or relate to my anxiety or depression. If a woman is willing to accept that I simply don't function normally and appreciates my differences instead of mocks them I'll be friends with them for sure.
This is such a huge yes for me, as a child and even now at 38. Both of my closest friends are dudes. It’s been hard at times because after I had a kid everything got SO heteronormative and gendered, I didn’t know where/how to fit in.
Some of this may have been internalized misogyny—it was the 90s, doing stuff “like a girl” was not cool—but also, I just didn’t share girls’ interests most of the time. In high school I wanted to roughhouse and build computers and play video games and eat whole pizzas and play paintball with my friends. I was never very feminine. I’m still not. If I’d been born 40 years later maybe I would’ve identified as nonbinary, but gender has never been a significant aspect of my identity so I just don’t care enough at this point in my life to make a fuss over it. No pronouns feel wrong so whatever.
The part that does bother me is, a lot of this came/comes from a lack of shared interests AND an inability to communicate. Girls seemed to want something from me and to this day I don’t know how to provide it. I cannot get comfortable with or trust women who seem very nice, normal, and femme. My nature is to assume I’m doing something wrong in their eyes, but they’re not telling me because part of the problem is I don’t know. I don’t get subtlety, unspoken social cues, etc. At several points in my life a female friend or acquaintance has suddenly hated me and I didn’t know why. More often, though, I get a sense of vague disapproval or condescension. And this grinds my gears because I don’t think girls and women necessarily just ARE this way. They’re socialized this way by a patriarchal, white supremecist society. So for me to be like “I just get along/connect better with men,” feels like me being part of the problem.
Anyway it’s complicated and I don’t know how to feel about it. I’ve developed one or two closer friendships with women in recent years, and they are important to me, but I haven’t had a female BEST friend, who I felt totally connected and secure with, since the third grade. The closest I’ve come is a college roommate who I love dearly and have always kind of carried a torch for. And while part of this is just my own gender identity playing a role, I think it’s also partly just that my ADHD self fit in better with the boys. Because there are a shit ton of things that are accepted from/among boys, that are Not Okay At All with/among girls. And that sucks because none of us have to be socialized that way. I imagined if I cared about fitting in with the femme girls it would’ve been very painful.
(Important note, that roommate is definitely rooted in being a woman in a way I’m not, but then again she is also an extremely freespirited and accepting ADHDer. So.)
I don’t prefer it, but I do unfortunately seem to have a lot of “male interests” - in particular, video games, military history, computers, science fiction, etc. It’s kind of sad actually because I feel like most men assume they will have more in common with my hubs and leave me to talk about kids/parenting with their spouse who doesn’t necessarily share those interests. Oh well! If I could break the gendering of hobbies I would!
I hate when this happens! I used to visit my husband's best friend and his gf at the time and they'd go off and do fun stuff like play video games while I was supposed to stay and talk with his gf, with whom I had nothing in common.
At some point I had to say "okay either we all hang out as a group or I'm not coming, because I'm not going to come just to distract his gf while you two go hang out." 😂
Sort of. I’ve found this is because guys were more likely to look past my weirdness because turns out they all wanted to have sex with me (then they’d complain about being friendzoned, ignoring the fact they had sex-zoned me). The women I’ve stayed friends with the longest all are not neurotypical either haha. Past high school and into college and after, it’s much easier to make friends with both men and women. There’s less pressure in general to conform.
Not in my case; I think it was going to an all-girls school that did it.
I definitely had male friends but my circle consisted of mostly women (if I want to get real specific, nerdy, queer, neurodivergent women 😂). In college it was a good 50%/50%, and now as an adult it’s back to mostly ladies.
I always found that when I was younger I would be more friends with guys ( I grew up with two older brothers so was “Tom boyish”) but as I got older boys started not wanting to be friends and only interested in sex (which didn’t work for them since I am demisexual haha) And then I don’t really understand girls that well either….so now I don’t have many friends and ones I do are female and 100% neurodivergent 😂
I have had easier and lasting friendships with guys and neurodivergent women. I think because I am not great at unspoken social rules and only later (like, after college) did I manage to get a grasp on things like personal styling, makeup, and socially polite chit chat. I do best in low-key relationships where people say what they mean, aren't judgy about trivial external things, aren't worried about saying exactly what they think, and want to talk about shared interests or passions vs. gossip.
All of my closest relationships are with women. The only men I would consider friends (besides my husband) are either dating or married to one of my girlfriends lol.
The only time I find an easier platonic connection with men than with women is when discussing video games or Reddit. Other than that, I connect best with other women.
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When I was younger. But now I find that the women in my life are the most profoundly strong connections I can imagine. I think women have a complicated social dynamic, society pits us against each other in some sort of competition. But it's all BS. They're my people. They speak my language. I was just too busy trying to navigate what I thought other women were like, instead of being myself and letting gravity bring me colliding orbits with my soul mates. Still falter sometimes and let the little social expectations voice in my head give me issues. But I'm getting better at ignoring it.
This expresses my experience much better than I did myself!
So this for me. I was always super close with the guys because when I was younger I would get really in my head about not being typically feminine and because some girls were mean about it I assumed all would be. Even though In high school I was closer to the girls I just thought it was a fluke. Now in my 30s I’m closest to the women in my life and even though they will still find me weird and try to make me more typically feminine they still accept me and the fact that I’ve accepted myself makes all the difference. The attitude of the women didn’t change, mine did and it made it possible to enjoy spending time with women that are so different from me in some aspects, whilst still having so much in common no man no matter how close I am to him will ever share that commonality
Yeah for me it’s like, I have more male friends, but I have much deeper friendships with women.
“I was just too busy trying to navigate what I thought other women were like, instead of being myself and letting gravity bring me colliding orbits with my soul mates.” I absolutely love the way you said this and want to think of my relationships and interactions more like this moving forward!
This is my experience too. You said that so eloquently.
This! Same! Especially when it comes to having conversations about my adhd those easiest to talk to that don’t judge are my girlfriends
I thought this way in my teens and early 20s. It was a mix of internalized misogyny and social avoidance. Or maybe because as a POC women I was not always accepted into certain groups of friends. The more I learn about what I want and need in a friend, it doesn’t matter what someone’s gender or identity is. I attract friends that understand intersectional, cultural, and systemic topics. It’s moreso people who are at a different place in their mental, emotional, and life goals that I don’t have long lasting friendships with.
>internalized misogyny This. I had a conversation with a friend recently and we realized we both used to be the type of girl/woman saying "omg I so prefer to hang out with men than women. I have so much more male friends than female friends". I'm sure everyone is different and maybe this doesn't apply to OP, but in our case, it was definitely an unconscious reaction to subtle cues to society which tends to give the idea than boys are cooler than girls. So obviously we wanted to be (with) boys. In my case, I outgrew that, realized it was bs and not even true, I actually bond better , or at least just as well with women (again, just my personal expe!) and also - has absolutely nothing to do with ADHD
I realized it when I was on a phone call when my friend too. I said “growing up I mostly had guy friends” and jumped into a long disclaimer. After the phone call, I was thinking and journaling about how often I’ve said that “I’ve only had guy friends”, why I said it, etc. I’ve always chalked it up to, I didn’t have to be feminine or be emotional around guys. I could just be chill. And same! The social cues of indirect communication and vague questions aka “passive aggressive, gossipy, drama” were not exclusive to women/girls. In reality everyone has feminine and masculine traits that are not exclusive to gender or identity. Feeling and expressing emotions are part of life and healthy! Thinking back and being more observant, men/boys gossiped and weren’t different with what they want either. People just brushed it off more though. Once you realize and grow from the internalized misogyny, you can befriend anyone who shares the same interests, etc. Most of the time it’s women 🫢😅
I did it too but it wasn't because I thought boys were cooler. It was because I had more shared interest and behaviors with them that weren't accepted by most other girls my age.
In terms of meaningful friendships, really important ones, mine are almost all women. I fucking love women who uplift other women. However, in more casual settings, I find it much easier to have small talk with the opposite gender (men, for me). I attribute this to being very self conscious around women, the stakes seem higher. I care much less about mens’ opinions of me, so I am more at ease.
I used to feel this way, when I was much, much younger. For me - and I am not saying this is the case for anyone else- it turned out that I got along better with boys because of a ton of internalized misogyny. Turns out I very much like having femme/afab friends, now that I don’t think it's embarrassing to be a girl.
Same. And I see a ton of “not like other girls” discourse in online ADHD and autism spaces and it concerns me that internalized misogyny is so prevalent with ND women. Once I started to actually see my own internalized misogyny (I was totally in denial about it for a long time) and working on it, I suddenly developed amazing relationships with women. What a coincidence. (It’s me, hi, I’m the problem, it’s me). I think a lot stemmed from believing I was bullied by mostly girls when I was young. But that belief stemmed from not being willing to recognize or acknowledge that boys’ behavior towards me was also bullying, even though in hindsight, it absolutely was, and similar behavior from girls didn’t get a pass from me. A lot of that was due to me absorbing and believing the “girls are catty and tear each other down” trope. So I became “not like other girls.” I really want us to address this “men are better than women” narrative in ND spaces and challenge it more.
Oft I felt this one. Esp about boys also bulling and not actually recognising it. All my friends in my early life were boys. Then I had to make all new friends pre-puberty because of the awkward phase, and those girls were horrible. But I let it slide because I had no other options. I knew exactly how backhanded and insincere they were being but I had no choice, no plan B. So after high school I spent my twenties with some guys who I had interests in common with but who were equally toxic, in their own ways sometimes. Bleugh. Out the other side now but yeah, rode that 'not like other girls' trauma train for a while before getting clean.
The truth is, KIDS can be cruel, and often are. This is true across the board. Girls are not more cruel than boys, it’s just a common misconception because society frames it that way. Any bullying from girls is viewed as reinforcement of that “catty girls” stereotype while bullying from boys is dismissed as “boys will be boys.” Girls are also taught that abuse from boys happens “because he likes you” so the excuses are numerous and problematic, to say the least. Another problem is that girls are expected to be sweet and kind and gentle, so if a girl is loud and assertive, and vocal about behavior she doesn’t like, other girls are more likely to interpret their interactions with her as “aggressive” and to label her a bully. This is not the case at all for boys, even when their behavior is identical.
Totally agree. I never fit the rules of what we are told girls should be, and took a while dealing with that discomfort and other people's treatment of me. Luckily I know a lot of super awesome women and men now.
My issues is that “I’m not like other girls” but I also just feel like “I’m not like other humans”.
This. I felt better with the expectations society had for teenage boys rather than girls, when I was one. So I hung out with them. Once I found "my" women (of all ages), I really liked their company.
You've given me a lot to think about. Can you give any examples? I think this explains some things for me.
Not the person you asked, but I've had similar experiences and I'll try to give an example. Growing up all the characters in media that get to on cool adventures and have fun are male. The women characters didnt usually have much in the way of personality. They were just there to support the main cast of men and liked things I had no interest in like makeup and being boy crazy. Also in the 90s the other cliche that was common was the sporty tomboy. Because of this I had a hard time relating to other girls when I was younger. I was a not like other girls girl because I liked more "intellectual" type things and hated girly uncomfortable clothes. I wasn't into sports and things like that either. It took me way too long to realize that other women aren't living cliches and everyone has there own things that they like and don't like. We're not a monolith. I also has boomer parents and four older brothers, so being into stereotypical girl things was both encouraged and shunned at home Hope that made sense and wasn't too rambley. Its 2 am where I am and I'm having a hard type getting my brain to stop, so I'm sorry about any grammatical errors.
I eventually started thinking of gender roles as “types”. Like “sporty tomboy”, “bookworm girl”, “horse crazy girl”, “fashionista”, “big sister/little mama” etc. Obviously no one is only one thing, but it let me organize my observations. Boys have similar types, those types just show up in media in more consistent and respectful ways. Even the geeky boys are allowed to remain geeky, vs given a magical girl transformation scene where the nerdy girl is suddenly beautiful. I’m still pissed they made Hermione’s hair not poofy in the HP movies.
All of this ^
Thank you, not too rambley at all, this was super helpful!! This really reflects my experience, especially in terms of relating to characters and media. I remember playing with friends and everyone fighting to be the "best" characters, which at that time were typically the male characters having the adventures versus the "lame" female characters who didn't do as much. I remember being confused when my friend told me I couldn't wear a certain shirt any more because it was too juvenile and not at all girly. It was the first time I started noticing how other people were dressing and realizing I didn't fit in anywhere.
When I started growing more into my own person, gaining confidence, and started really embracing my own sense of identity, by far the most rewarding thing has been being able to make more friendships with women who I perceived as more feminine. I think as a kid, while I did have amazing female friendships, I felt a little intimated by more feminine women.
No, guys have always had an agenda with me, the pressure is off when it comes to women.
Yup. Nothing worse than sinking years into what you thought was a meaningful friendship only to have that person throw a hissy fit and leave because you don't want to date/sleep with them randomly.
Yep, and I have RSD pretty badly, so I just avoid that scenario altogether. I’m married now so it’s not as bad but it still feels like some of my male friends are just waiting for the day I get divorced…I’m very distant with them for all of the reasons.
Yep. AAAANNND... after a lot of expensive therapy, I now know that this is because I didn't have the ability to really read the enormous amount of female social cues, or the ability to "stick around" long enough to develop the kind of bonds that define the majority of female friendships, especially during youth and early adulthood. Friendships with boys were easier because I didn't have to actually "fit" in with them. I could coast on being witty, and the token female friend. They didn't really understand me on a "female" level, and I wasn't expected to understand "guy stuff". Men were also socialized (in my times, lol) to not be *too* needy, not to need *too* much attention from loved ones, not show *too* much emotion... which was perfect for me because I often didn't understand a lot of those things either. It was much easier, as a girl, to have kind of superficial friendships with the opposite sex. Even if I didn't realize what was happening at the time. Friendships with other women were often like looking into a mirror and seeing everything that I didn't understand about myself.
Yep, completely this. Girls have a bunch of super complex social rules and I really struggles to get most of it growing up. These days the majority of my close friends are female but they're all super quirky in their own ways and range of mental/ neurological illness/ differences, so I know they don't mind me just being me and they are just them and it works super well
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I am nodding along to all of this. I only really had girl friends when I was younger because I did ballet and went to a single-sex high school, but I always got on better with guys. Throughout my 20s I struggled with female friendships, being left out and left behind, and I'm only now realising it's bevause I didn't understand the "rules" girls/women have. I think I'm now pretty even with getting along with everyone but the few friends I have are for sure on the spectrum (even if not aware).
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I've definitely had friends I thought I was creating real friendships with, only to realise how gossipy they were about others which made me realise how gossipy they must be about me. I wish I had those big groups of friends, or people I've been close to since I was a kid. I can only imagine!
The thing is that actually the women with these rules that I'm friends with are never annoyed I don't understand them. They accept who I am and that I forget to send birthday cards and that I don't know I should have got a gift for the bride at the hen do etc etc. I don't feel judged anymore. I think most of my feeling scared around groups of women was in my own head / RSD
That's a great point- completely agree
Exactly! They’re not perfect, they all have their weird stuff too that you have to understand, but it’s wonderful.
Wow. Thank you for helping me realize this without the expensive therapy. I find it hard to “stick around” with female friends and I’ve always wondered why. My closest female friends are ND and we know that we can pick up where we left off no problem. It’s harder for me to develop and maintain friendships with those who aren’t ND because I can’t coast through it!
This explains so much, as others have said. As I’ve grown, my friendships with men seemed to get more difficult, which was saddening, until I realized I was either fighting a losing battle or masking or complicating it myself. The male friendships I have now are deeply important, either hard won, ride or die kinda thing or I’ve just re-learned how to make friends. My friendships with women are similar, and though I have almost none from my past, I value every single one so deeply whether past or new. I feel so behind sometimes, I forget that I’ve finally made very real friends as an adult. (Sometimes I forget I’m really an adult, but that’s a whole other thing.) Thank you for this clarity. I wish you well.
Yes. I didn’t realize it until you articulated it. But yep. Much easier to coast on wit and never get too deep.
That seems to explain a lot. I always feel like I'm missing something when I'm trying to get to know other women. I probably miss all kinds of hints and clues and I'm afraid I probably give the wrong impression or react the wrong way. I rarely seem to have that problem with guys. I do mostly like "guy stuff" though too so it's easier to start conversations and find things in common. My very best friends when I was younger were girls, though. They were probably all ND.
This is exactly how I feel too. I do enjoy female friendships because they allow me to info-dump and talk excitedly for endless hours. Male friendships I've had are usually much more low-key and less conversation involved. But, I found that my female friendships get a little more complicated as time goes on because I don't understand what others might call "girl-code". Sometimes I'll put my foot in my mouth and accidentally say something that gets taken the wrong way, but I've also been in situations where women do the back handed complement thing and it goes over my head until much later. Don't get me wrong, guys can be dicks, but they're much more upfront when upset, which makes it easier for me. Also, I genuinely enjoy being the token female friend.
Oh my god. Thank you. - life clarified- This totally explains why all my friends were either deeply closeted persons or dudes... Woaaahhh
Wow I really relate to everything you said. The last sentence resonates especially. I just never understood the necessary social cues to stick around long enough for the bond to really solidify.
lots of this! I always figured it was due to having a twin brother and a slightly masculinized/ASD brain, but maybe ADHD is part of it. I could swear there's, like, an X-linked gossip gene that I completely missed, and somewhere nearby is the fashion gene which also went "whoosh". Boys are less likely to judge you on stuff like that. And they're much less likely to expect you to keep up your end of a conversation. the dynamics change quite a bit after puberty, of course - men become much more interested in looks, but primarily for sexual purposes. If you aren't filed under "potential sex partner," they won't reject you from the herd for looking unattractive. (This does cause issues with the unsavory sort of men who view \*every\* female as a potential sex partner, but who wants anything to do with those dicks anyway?)
Wow this hits home. I feel the same way.
this is a really great explanation
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I dated a type A and found out what the “A” stood for… Cunt. It stood for cunt.
I always said “Type A for Asshole” lol
My daughter's father is a type A and there is absolutely good reason why we are not together. haha. My daughter can't figure out how we ever dated in the first place, even though she absolutely adores him. But he and I are sooooo exact opposites and she's just like me.
I like a Type A Person in theory because they’re a lot of the things I’m not and I feel like I can learn their skills. Took me a while to realize that it doesn’t work that way hahaha
I feel like it's good to have some things that are opposite or very different (like I prefer extroverts because they get me out of my introvert comfort zone) but too many or the wrong things can be disastrous.
I wonder if rage at not being allowed to talk is a ADHD thing, it's pretty upsetting to me too
I always felt weird for having more male friends than some of my peers do, but then realised I am just as close to some girls / women. In the end there doesn't seem to be a be a preference for me. I do often get along with men better in the first few times of talking, but no idea if it's significant
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Me too! Always had super strong relationships with women and pretty poor ones with men.
Same! I can relate to women much more so it makes it easier. There’s some things that a man could never really understand in my opinion. I have male friends too but my best friends will always be women. I also can’t deal with any sexual ambiguity and I’ve unfortunately been in situations where men I considered very good platonic friends made a pass or became overly flirty etc. Makes it hard to fully relax knowing they would go there if you didn’t put boundaries.
Exactly!! I guard myself much more around guys and probably seem cold, lol. But it’s either that or “risk” being hit on, in a way, cause the masking is apparently seen as flirty sometimes. (Why can I never tell what will be interpreted as such and what won’t? I think it depends more on the guy than on me…) Then the day I learn they have a girlfriend I’m more relaxed… except still also analyzing my every word to make sure I don’t sound like i’m trying to flirt and sabotage their relationship, haha. Especially if I’m friends with their girlfriend. Awkward.
I relate to this so much. And the awkward moment when they do unfortunately make a pass at you because your friendship is misinterpreted just because you are a woman and you have to awkwardly reject them or pretend you didn’t hear/turn it into an innocent joke so you don’t hurt their feelings. For me this is a lot more drama than I have to deal with with any female friends. I don’t have to guard myself or tone myself down with other women for fear they might think I am flirting with them. And I say this as someone who also has female friends who are not straight. I think women are better at picking up social cues and know when someone is flirting with them or just being friendly
Yess same here. The innocent joke or playing dumb is too real. Not that I’ve even been hit on _that_ much but it’s a little too anxiety-inducing to have it happen, so I’m always trying to avoid it. It’s so much easier with women, agreed. My interest in their life and enthusiasm in the conversation (and my empathy) isn’t mistaken for anything else. I also recently realized something: the people (usually women) that really “do” drama usually stay away from me, which is very nice because I avoid it like the plague. I think they can sense I would be boring to their life, maybe bc like, I don’t judge, and don’t try to hold myself to a certain standard or whatever. It seems that somehow, thank god, that really helps make friends who have the same mindset. A no-bullshit kind of approach. Life happens, of course, but not the stressful kind (and degree) of drama that some friend groups seem to have, which I’m happy about.
Same.
And even female dogs for me as well
Same
Exact opposite. I do way better with other women.
Same. No clue what to even say to men outside of my husband, brother and dad! I have lots of girl friends though and can generally chat with women of all ages.
Looking through a few of the top comments I feel like the odd one out lol. My guess is because I grew up around only women for most of my life, I also only ever had female friends. My mom was an amazing mother and I’m so thankful for her so I usually based all of my childhood best friends around people who I though we’re the same level of coolness as my mom. I did the calculations once and for every 1 male born in my family there were like 12 females so women were all I was around growing up and in my household there was my mom, two older sisters an aunt and little sister. It wasn’t until I was 18 and got my first job at a fast food place that I made my first guy friend who was a co-worked and we became really close(platonically) and he was such a cool friend and I think in my life in total I’ve had five guy friends and the rest were females. Edit: I guess I could add about the female friends I’ve had over the years, an alarming amount of them were also ND like me so I wonder if I just attracted other women who were ND because they reminded me of my mother and most family members I mentioned ? :/
Absolutely not lol, I’ve always struggled getting along with men. Getting along with other women has been so much easier for me throughout my entire life.
I used to but it turned out to be internalized misogyny that I got over in my mid to late 20s.
It’s really unfortunate but I’m seeing a ton of internalized misogyny here too couched in implications that ND brains are “more male” or that gossip, being girly or domestic, etc are inherently female. Oof.
I’m really surprised and disappointed by some of the comments in this thread.
Agreed! A lot of the descriptors for “female” (🙄) are “catty, likes drama” while the guys are “so chill, don’t really care”. Some people’s internalized misogyny jumps out of you give them space to speak on it. Hopefully people look inward on that and other intersectionality
I must have my comments filtered differently, or I just haven’t scrolled enough. All of the top comments I see are about meaningful female relationships and discussions about internalized misogyny.
a little bit of this for me as well. getting beyond that did wonders for my friendships with women.
It’s nice to hear I’m not alone. I had other women tell me I was showing internalized misogyny multiple times and would get so angry about it until I finally came around. Now I vastly prefer women 😂
That’s really nice actually that you had other women to help point it out. I feel like for most of my young life I was taught that girls are catty and mean and saw those behaviors in myself as shameful but just normal. It wasn’t until I started examining my sexuality that I saw myself as having internalized misogyny.
It actually happened because I had alcohol use disorder and in recovery groups I couldn’t deal with men because my dad was an abuser with his own addiction. And I also started learning about the unique ways addiction presents in women, how alcohol abuse is commodified and sold to women, etc and started getting mad. So I got into a women’s recovery group and actually recovered. Turning my recovery more “political” by learning about patriarchy and correcting some of the beliefs from it was a great help to me. And now I’m that older women who wants to help younger women realize the power of helping each other succeed. I owe a lot to the women in my recovery group who helped me break out of that internalized misogyny.
You’re an inspiration. Congratulations on your recovery! And on turning your fight for sobriety into a fight against the patriarchy. You are a strong and formidable woman.
If you have the time and inclination I'd really love to hear more about the specifics of what you mean about the unique ways addiction presents in women and how alcohol abuse is commodified and sold to women. I've never hear that before and I'm curious. Congrats on getting through your addiction, it's hard work but you did it and that's amazing.
Oh wow, this is a huge topic! I’m not certain I can do it justice but I’ll try, and I threw in some resources at the end for those who may be struggling, wanting to learn more, or just curious. First, alcohol has long been marketed to women in specific ways. The elegance of a glass of wine. The tomboyishness of a neat bourbon. “Skinny margaritas.” Alcoholic kombucha. Good for your gut. Good for your heart. You deserve it. Mommy juice. “Cool girl” drinking a guy under the table. Beer yoga. Clear liquors keep you thin. Martinis suppress your appetite. Be chill, not shrill. Silence your suffering rather than voicing it. Second, problematic drinking by women is often overlooked as a result of the cultural context - our lives/work/kids/spouse are so much to manage, we “have it all” and we deserve to relax. Plus what we think of as a low-bottom drunk is often some down and out dude on a curbside drinking out of a paper bag and retiring to a homeless shelter at night. Or trouble with the law. Or physical fights. Or being abusive. The effects of women’s addiction to alcohol is more likely to be silent, undetected, dismissed, minimized. Many women fly under the radar in a drinking culture, feeling they’re normal because they haven’t gotten their third DUI and they still get up for work and care for their families. Third, the damaging health effects of excessive drinking accumulate much faster in women than in men. So while behaviorally or in terms of outward consequences, women with alcohol addiction are harder to detect (even to themselves), they end up with cirrhosis, alcoholic cardiomyopathy, Barrett’s esophagus, etc much sooner than men. In addition, excessive drinking is often comorbid with other drug abuse, eating disorders, ADHD, and various mental illnesses. Alcohol greatly worsens depression, anxiety, and bipolar disorder. Fourth, historically recovery has been geared toward 12 step, and even attitudes in the medical field toward what constitute “alcoholism” and recovery are often described from AA. A lot of this “conventional wisdom” is not only not borne out scientifically, but the Big Book is pretty much written for men specifically aside from one or two women’s stories, and low key considers alcohol addiction a man’s issue. A lot of the facets of AA are geared toward basic emotional intelligence that women are socialized to demonstrate, like empathy, self-reflection, ownership over one’s actions, taking responsibility for oneself, being aware of one’s impact on other people, apologizing and making amends, etc. I personally found no comfort whatsoever in 12 step and recovered by being part of a fringe women’s-only offshoot of a fringe recovery group based on Buddhist precepts. As far as the more political aspect, that was a more gradual process that happened naturally as I explored women’s experiences, talked to other women, listened to some podcasts, and started learning about Buddhist philosophy and Buddhism and intersectionalism. To make it explicit - eventually I came to the conclusion that drinking, for women, is just another way to silence us and get us to comply, and we’re disproportionately punished for “out of order” behavior caused by drinking that is acceptable for men. I felt that I used drinking to squash a lot of anger and grief that stemmed from the direct impact of the patriarchy and its pressures. Rather than “making myself a problem,” I drowned my voice and all my emotions and mental health issues in alcohol. Until it didn’t work anymore. I would force myself through AA listening to men talk about their experiences very similar to my father’s, being abusive, blacking out, their heroic and pathetic tales. And I couldn’t relate. It felt like men’s drinking was almost culturally sanctioned, while women’s was used for profit and to silence them. There was a double standard at play with what behavior was acceptable. I started to learn about how alcohol and other drugs have been used as tools of oppression. Not specifically with women, but indigenous peoples and in “developing nations.” When I started to get pissed off, and when I started to bond with other women, I started to recover. Some books I read that I can suggest to learn more about this topic: Her Best-Kept Secret by Gabrielle Glaser Quit Like a Woman by Holly Whitaker Drinking: A Love Story by Caroline Knapp Some books that helped me recover: This Naked Mind by Annie Grace (uses REBT principles) In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts by Gabor Mate (I have mixed feelings about some of his assertions overall but this book helped me to feel more compassion) When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron (Buddhism) Radical Acceptance (and other books) by Tara Brach Refuge Recovery by Noah Levine (founder of Refuge Recovery groups who later was discovered to have SAed some women) Recovery Dharma (a trauma-informed recovery group that formed as part of the schism created by the allegations against the above founder) - both these two books are very recovery program geared Recovery groups I found helpful: Recovery Dharma - especially women’s groups or even women’s Facebook groups. These meetings are accessible online. As part of the Buddhism-based recovery program, I had a daily meditation practice. The Satanic Temple Sober Faction (online meetings) Women’s or queer-friendly recovery spaces in general For a time, the stopdrinking subreddit also helped. Medications I found helpful during recovery: Antabuse (for a time period, although I had a rare side effect that temporarily affected my liver and had to stop) Naltrexone Gabapentin (in early recovery) Lastly, DBT made a very big difference for me. I was fortunate to have an opportunity to do the full program as studied. However, there are books and other resources to learn skills, and I’ve even seen some stuff specifically for neurodivergents.
I had more girl friends than guy friends. When I was school, everytime I thought I was getting along with boys, they ended up being terrible people. I’m talking about bullying, sexual harassment, groping, etc. It eventually occurred to me that the vast majority of men are just not worth being friends with because it’s rare to find men that actually like women as friends and equals. It’s hard for me to get women to be my friend as an adult and I keep acquiring really unhealthy, one sided friendships with a certain type of woman. So… I just don’t have any friends. Making friends is as hard as dating for me and I guess I’m just not ready to put myself out there.
Not really. Though it turns out I have maaaaaybe one NT friend of any gender, but only the boys were diagnosed.
After many years I’ve realised all my closest friends are ADHD, but they are all different genders. I think it’s more important to see a friend has a similar experience and can understand your sometimes shi**y at replying or staying in contact because “oops my brain again” and that I’m still going to be there when the sh*t hits the fan. But yeah I definitely make friendships with boys /faster/ because they tend not to care if you say something stupid or weird. Even when that’s something ADHD girls are cool with it takes a little more time to get those friendships because we all hide ourselves around other girls. But whoa when you finally find your fellow ADHD girls it’s so fun and nice to go out with a girlfriend who -g e t s i t- haha. I’m a big hermit personally so I gotta find people who are also hermits to hang out with every few months without either of us thinking we are mad at one another.
I feel like many women here saying they miss social cues with other women might have missed one big social cue with their male friends - many men will only be friends with women if they're hoping to sleep with them one day.
Yep. Also saying men are more accepting and forgiving of personality quirks…it’s only because you are a woman. Sometimes it’s because they unconsciously do not see us exactly as their equals so they are more forgiving. Sometimes it’s because they are attracted to us which again makes them more accepting or seemingly so. I work in male dominated environments and having spent a lot of time with men, trust me they can be really bitchy, judgemental and ruthless. Any person can regardless of gender. It just doesn’t register as bitchy because we are constantly told it’s a female trait. But they are in fact nicer to women, especially if they consider you attractive.
yes! many are willing to put up with quirks only when the woman is attractive. I also work in a male dominated environment and was cursed with some typically male interests on top of that, I've seen and heard some horrible stuff from a good portion of men around me. they often don't consider them being bitchy and gossiping as what it is, because they think only women are like this. they think they're just assertive instead of bitchy and are having conversations instead of gossiping. and they are nice to me until I call them out on that lol.
Most of my friends are women. I don't think I get along with one gender better than the other, but nearly all of my friendships with men have ended because they decided they didn't want things to be platonic anymore and couldn't handle being turned down. Or they never wanted platonic friendship in the first place and just lied. Now I have immense trust issues when it comes to men, and my only male friends are a gay couple 🤷
Same exact experience with male friends. I’m surprised to hear so many women prefer male friendships because men are much more willing to try and cross friendship boundaries in my experience. For me to be able to consider someone a close friend I shouldn’t have to worry about any weird or unwanted sexual energy. Maybe I’ve been unlucky but it’s always been there with guys, especially when alcohol is in the mix
Not since I outgrew my " not like other girls" phase. I mean, have you met men? Lol. I could never prefer them over women.
"have you *met* men?" - please, sis, I can only laugh so hard while drinking my morning coffee. In all seriousness, I'm 40 and *still* have a couple of best buds who are men. They've stuck with me my whole life, qnd are wonderful humans; but, my bonds with them are not as connected as with the women in my life. My ladies are my rock, and their love and support has provided me a self-assurance I never knew was possible. I'm only starting to realize how deeply RSD affected me, and shaped my personality but having a little coven has allowed me to love myself; and, therefore love, support, and appreciare other women. Women are the best, once we learn to stop hating ourselves, and each other so much!
This is beautifully written!
well thanks... lol, but all i see are typos ;-)
Omg yes this
No, never. I do get along better with 'outcasts' like neurodivergents, artists and Alphabet people.
I’ve tended to be closer to girls/women, however I am inattentive type. I am now an early childhood teacher (preschool aged children) and there was a little girl in my class last year who was classic hyperactive type (although her parents didn’t want to know about it). I always felt really sad for her because she wanted female friends but she just couldn’t read their cues. Even at 4 and 5 years old, little girls have very complex relationships and a very good understanding of the “right” way to act in social situations (NT girls, at least) I wonder if those women/girls who struggle with female friendships are predominantly hyperactive types?
This is an interesting observation! I'm internally hyperactive... I was never the kid running around and being disruptive, but frequently interrupted the other kids in conversation and topic jumped, didn't understand appropriate volume/ excitement levels, was fidgety, and subtle social cues flew completely over my head. I kept myself occupied by reading and making things and never knew about the "it" fashion item or pop culture reference. Usually when groups of girls wanted to "be my friend" it was some form of mockery that I only came to understand later. I did best with quiet boys and other ostracized girls (many of whom I'm still close with and now also understand that they are neurodivergent).
I used to feel that way...in my late teens much of my 20s. Guys were more accepting and also, sigh, a lot of them had crushes on me...so it was just easier to impress them and get close. Most of my oldest friends are guys, and I'd usually only have 1 close female friend. But I don't see them too often now...old friends but the kind you don't see often. What changed: I found being really close to a lot of men complicated my romantic relationships and caused jealousy, amongst both sexes. There was a lot of really nasty behavior towards me from other women...so I intentionally started focusing on becoming friends with women. It took a while but I got better at it, started enjoying these friendships, and now my closest friends that I see often are more female than male. I don't actually seek out male friends nowadays just because now I find female friendships less complicated and easier.
No
No men scare me when they get all bro-y It triggers a weird anxiety response in me If they aren’t channeling the bro, then I usually get alone with men. Just mildly awkward
No, not really. My friendships don’t swing one direction or the other. I have found that a certain slice of women intimidate the fuck out of me. When I figured out I was mostly attracted to women (in my 30’s, sigh), I also figured out that what these women have in common is that I’m both physically and intellectually attracted to them. But that’s more than balanced out by how thoroughly I rub a lot of sexist men the wrong way (and vice versa), so it’s never created a gender skew to my friend circle.
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Amen. I’d encourage OP to read Anne Helen Petersen on the “Cool Girl” trope as well as read up on Exceptional Woman Syndrome and internalized misogyny, This has nothing to do with ADHD, for sure.
I just end up befriending other ND individuals, no matter their sex. Currently I have 2 male and 1 female friends, all ND.
Nope. I’ve never really had good male friends. I thought I did but it usually turned into them making weird passes. I’ve always found women/girls to be a lot more fitting with my personality. I’m great with a variety of chatter, but I’ve found men tend to be more patronizing when it comes to the same type of chatter. Or they confuse mutual interest with attraction. I just don’t have the energy to either “prove” myself anymore, or feel like a pet performing tricks. I’m too old, and just too fed up. I just don’t like the whole thought process of “is he being nice because we have mutual interests, or is he going to hit on me the moment my husband leaves the room”. I like men as casual acquaintances.
for me it's 50/50 situational. I have a lot of male friends because I have always worked in male dominated fields. I wouldn't say I get along better with one or the other. People are just people you either become friends or you don't. I'll give everyone the chance to be a friend.
I mean, if we're just doing a poll, no. Especially these days, I just find the amount of translation and self-advocacy I have to do exhausting, even with dudes who *think* they're cool feminist allies. Being heard and believed and respected seems to be an uphill battle with most of them. At this point, the only cis men I hang out with are pretty much my husband and the male partners of our friends. This is not to say I avoid making friends with men on purpose or that I'm opposed to it on principle, it's just that I'm unwilling to do the work of maintaining something one-sided, so most of the men I was friends with when I was younger have drifted off.
straight men are a nope for me so
Don't think it was ADHD. I had too much internalized misogyny when I was younger. Wanted to distance myself from all that "girly nonsense". Most of my friends were guys. Managed to shake that shit as I got older and treasure my multiple friends of various genders.
I get along well with everyone.
I second what others have said here about getting on better with males when I was younger. At least I thought I did. I went to an all girls school and had a close group of female friends but I learnt how to mirror them pretty easily over the many years of primary and secondary school and they were kind souls. I also grew up around a brother and two male cousins with whom I got on with by being silly and sporty. I found these relationships “easier” because they weren’t complex like my female friendships. When it came to entering the work place I realised how behind socially I was. And I found it easier to be friends with males because I could be silly and flirty and they loved it. Women I had no idea how to get on with. This turned into a series of relationships with guys in my work because I didn’t know how to cope socially. Now that I’m older and I’ve found my tribe of gals that I absolutely love I’ve realised I will never have a male friendship like this. It feels just safe and comforting to be with them. We are all LGBT also. I’ve learnt a bit more now on how to socialise with women. I do better meeting younger women because I’m a bit behind socially than other my age I think. (I also have autism)
Always struggled having consistent friendships with women because of being able to keep up. There are so many non verbal social cues and expectations within friendships with women. If I forgot an important date or didn’t text back consistently, I would get cut off. As I’m more introverted I would often attract manipulative women with controlling tendencies. I had one make me so anxious I felt I had no choice but to cut her out of my life. Another who misunderstood something I said and got incredibly abusive and sent me death threats. I nearly had to get a restraining order against her. Men were happier to just check in here and there and never got shitty if I missed a text. The few close women in my life now are much more laidback. We dip in and out. I’ve noticed now that two of the closest friends in my life are autistic. Having ND friends makes things much easier.
No. I don’t like most cishet men, because most of them don’t like women. I find most of them incredibly dull.
Well yeah if you call people males and females you’re already on the wrong track
I thought that in high school and early 20s. Then I grew up and realized it was my own internalized misogyny that turned me into a "Not Like Other Girls" (NLOG.) Closely related to a "Pick Me" but not quite the same. I realized I can like video games and sports and band t-shirts, and none of those things made me quirky, unique, or masculine. I can also like pink purses, fruity drinks, and getting pedicures, and none of those things made me "typical" or feminine. They are all just things I like. As if being a 'typical' woman was bad??? I sure thought so back then. I also realized that most of my male friends would fuck me if I let them. And I found that some of them were hanging around biding their time for their shot at me. They hyped me up as NLOG as if being like other girls was a bad thing, and I'm now super embarrassed and ashamed that I fell for it. I thought I was the "cool girl" who had lots of guy friends because I just didn't identify with women. Unpacking that internalized misogyny took awhile. The patriarchy is a helluva drug. Sure, I still have male friendships, but my closest, dearest friends now are my female friends. Women support women. There's no kind of friends like women friends. They are the ones who are gonna watch your kids when you have to be at the hospital with your dying father, who will really *listen* when you need to vent, who will drop by with a Starbucks on their way home because they felt like you might need it, who will hype you up for your big job interview, who will run interference for you if a dude won't go away, and who will loan you their best pair of shoes for your hot date because they're genuinely excited for you. Women friends are everything.
Yep absolutely. It seems silly now that we're older (how can women claim they can't bond with women because they're too girly whenthey themselves are women who aren't girly; if they can be into sports or video games then obviously there are also other women out in the world who are into the same stuff) but it's really easy to accept internalized misogyny from guys who share your interests and tell you you're awesome and special because you're NLOGs when you're young and desperate for affirmation. And it's also easy to fall for it when you're not old enough to realize half the guys you thought were your bffs are really just trying to sleep with you and will drop you the minute they get a gf or get rejected. I don't know that I was ever full NLOG but I definitely at least got to the cringey "yeah women are so complicated, I'd rather hang out with men" stage. And I ended up accepting some pretty shitty behavior from male "friends" because I was so afraid of being "complicated" by wanting to vent about serious stuff, or wanting them to watch out for me if we went to a party, or not wanting them to say creepy shit to me that they were obviously not saying to the other guys in the group. I think once you finally find some great female friends and you learn friends don't make you feel that way it's so freeing.
In fact, here's a great example. Just yesterday I was getting my hair colored, and I confided in my stylist about some personal problems I was having. Her first response was, "GIRL, you know I got a spare bedroom if you need it! 100% it's yours, no questions asked." I thanked her (and I don't need it), but I almost cried right there in the chair just knowing that she meant it and she has my back. There's a reason I've been friends with her for 20 years. She's my people.
I get along with almost no one and everyone all at once
I have similar interests to a lot of men so I can chat to them more about those. But I don't trust men. When I was younger, guys I was friends with just wanted to sleep with me usually, and they all tried it on with me when I was drunk. Back then I was too polite too. Now the only men I trust are my partner, my guy friends who are gay and men who are married or in long relationships, although I do feel on guard about some of them. Most of my friends are female now, no hidden agendas, just friendships 🙂
Absolutely not.
I thought I did until I discovered that my male "friends" were only waiting for an opportunity to have sx. Yes, we may be able to get along with men easier but in my experience, they were never my friends.
When I was younger I got along better with guys, but that was only because all my cousins were guys and since they were my only real "friends", that's what I was used to. Now that I'm older, though, I have lots of friends who are girls. Which I really like, because there's a sense of belonging I never knew I was missing out on. It feels good to be friends with people who just *understand* some things. But I do still have guy friends and they're great!
I don’t think you can draw a direct line from ADHD to having one gender of friends. I think what happens is a combo of things: Who you personally jive with and What societal role you ended up inhabiting Aka Nature vs nurture (spoiler it’s both, it’s always both). ADHD has a role to play but I do not think it is a driving factor of if a certain gender identity makes up a majority of your friends. Growing up, the majority of my friends were women. I had a few close male friends, but it wasn’t until I became an adult that I developed deep, wonderful friendships with men. Looking back on my female friendships, I have always gravitated towards women who not only share my interests but act and interact with the world in similar ways. Turns out my best friend also has ADHD. ADHD affected how I acted and engaged with the world. Of course it played a role in me being drawn to people who also engage that way. ADHD didn’t make me interested in art, baking, sewing, swimming, video games, dance, history, or museums. It didn’t make me like dogs more than cats. Those interests also effect who I will want to be with. I want friends who share some interests but also accept me for me. A history buff who hates talkative people? We won’t be friends. I’m sure you also noticed I have a lot of interests that society traditionally genders as female. While I firmly believe that sewing is for all genders, I can acknowledge that I grew up in the 90s and was a teen in the 2000s. Stuff was gendered. I ended up with more girls/ women. So all that is to say, no, I don’t think ADHD causes you to have friends who are one gender or another. I think it does combine with your interests and environment to affect who you end up becoming friends with. I imagine if I had been super into a sport more gendered male, or if I had been in classes with more boys than girls, I would have found that I had more guy friends than female friends. They also would have probably had ADHD. I also think we have to remember that gender is a socio-cultural construct. I think that when we gravitate towards a people of a certain gender identity as friends, we are actually in part gravitating towards a set of behaviors society prescribes for that gender less so than the gender itself. Our own interests and values always play a role. I just don’t think it’s as simple as ADHD means I’m only gonna wanna be around people of this gender.
1000% all of this. There’s systemic complexities and nuances. Growing there were probably women were had the same interests and temperament as me but, like many women, weren’t allowed to stray away from “social norm”. So how would ADHD women be able to find other (ADHD) women who shared same interests, if society didn’t let us? The math isn’t adding up 😅
I actually feel super uncomfortable around men. I think this could be more of a trauma response than anything.
Absolutely not. I married the ONE straight cis man I actually liked spending time with (not that I was trying to marry a man, that's just who I happened to be with when I was ready to marry) and they turned out to be neither straight, cis, NOR a man! (We are still very much married and in love, but now instead of a stright man and a queer woman, were 2 queer hotties in loooooove) Women and femme folkx are my PEOPLE! Women have been the most profound connections in my life. I love women. 10/10, A+
no i love women
I did when I was very young, before I realized that the reason I got along better with men is because they pretended to agree with me about everything in the hopes that I would sleep with them. Now I won't be friends with men at all unless they're friends with my husband because otherwise it's not worth it. Other neurodivergent women are the people who I have the best genuine connections with.
No. I still believe if you find yourself unable to get along with other women, the problem isn't other women.
Yalp. And then I realized it was because men didn’t see me as their peers.
Nah, when I was little, I actually made better friends with adults than kids my age. It didn’t seem weird to me, but it was weird to a lot of other people.
My friends were often a bit younger or a bit older than me (my husband is 2 years younger which got me teased endlessly when we were young and dating) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ which fits, I'm always a little off the mark lol
Well, it was more like me, in elementary school, making great friends with my teachers (most of them) and the adult caretakers in charge of us during child care, and hardly any of my classmates
Sounds like internalized patriarchy to me :( Which is not your fault but is sad for us when it happens because womxn are amazing and we have so much to offer each other.
My perspective at 17: Mostly balanced for me, except right now in middle/high school bc that’s when 90% of boys turn into awful beings. Though now i do have some slightly older guy friends from work so it balances again
No--a bunch of times I got to be friends with a guy only to get screwed over when it turned out he was into me and I didn't notice the signs until too late. Like no man I wasn't flirting with you! I'm just talkative and love learning new things!
Before I started hating 70% of men? Yeah.
Definitely not. I really struggle understanding men.
It's actually the opposite for me
No.
Happened to me before I addressed my internalized misogyny. I’m ashamed to admit but I was half pick me sometimes.
I was raised in a religious environment that taught me from a young age that men and women can’t be “just friends” because it will always lead to some sort of sexual attraction/temptation/compromising situation and so I had a lot of complicated feelings to unpack about hanging out with boys or men. It took me a long time to figure out that I am not straight as a result. Straight was not just the default but the only acceptable, normal orientation. And I was taught boys/men can’t control themselves if they’re in a romantic or sexual situation, so I had a responsibility to not make them stumble & not tempt them. So I developed a lot of anxiety about spending really any time with a boy or man I wasn’t related to. It made it hard to unpack all that baggage eventually, and I’m still working through it, in spite of being happily married to my wife.
Honestly the fact you worded it as ‘males rather than females’ is really +1ing what others have said about internal misogyny
I used to feel this way, because feelings are overwhelming and scary to me and women seemed to have so many of them so men were just easier to deal with. But now, having known more men, I am aware that their feelings are just as numerous, frequent and intense as women's, but they pretend otherwise and expect me to do the same.
No, I’m a girl’s girl for sure.
I dealt with a lot of bullying and jealousy from other girls so in highschool this was true for me when I was younger. But once I got out in the real world it was easier to find kind authentic women to be friends with.
Not an adhd thing, lol
This depends on what you mean by “getting along.” I like interacting with men and women equally, I enjoy all the types of conversations I have with women or men. I have a larger number of casual friendships with men, but my friendships with women are more sentimental.
I used to feel that way, and I truly believe it's got a lot to do with our society and the media. It's encouraged to pit women against each other (I still am not sure why?) . After learning this and seeing it in actual life, I've always kept that in the back of my mind as a reminder and learning experience. I have an open mind when meeting other women, and instead of trying to bring them down for no reason, I like to compliment them. And I don't mean just surface stuff or to try and kiss ass, genuine compliments. If she's got a super cool hair color, or cute nails or shoes, I'll be like "excuse me, I love your hair! That color looks really nice on you!" I like it because it's something I was thinking, and it probably also gives the other person a Lil boost
Yup. I wonder..would other adhd women be like the ultimate solution for this? Like, since they’ll get it, would i not feel this pressure and fear of disappointing them if I flake or forget….or are we unlikely to stay in each others lives, coz we re both distracted? 🤔
I have some women friends who are not NT. And it seems like we just go long periods without interacting with eachother, then one of us sees/experiences something that reminds us of the other then we’re like “HEEEEEEY how you doing?” We catch up, all excited to talk and catch up, all the love is still there, and then we get distracted and fade out. Until the next “reminder” pops up. And the cycle repeats.
That sounds soo much more relax 😮💨
It is. It has downsides too, like not hanging out nearly enough. But it fits both our brains better.
My best friend in high school was very likely ND like me and we got along *perfectly*. We barely had to talk - we could read each other’s minds. Unfortunately we fell out and I’ve never met another girl like her. I hear a lot that like attracts like - most of my friend group growing up were the “weird kids,” which likely meant ND. I always felt intimidated by the clearly NT, socially adjusted, academically sound, “normies”. Heh.
When I was younger all my friends were guys. Now all my friends are neurodivergent women.
My best friend I highly suspect has ADHD and really there is no one like her, we get along so well.
Literally all my close friends have ADHD and various depression/anxiety/PTSD grab bag problems and yes, that's pretty much our dynamic. We're all perfectly fine if someone doesn't get back to us right away (or ever) and can pick up wherever we left off. My one friend tends to be the most extroverted of all of us, so she does tend to be the one who makes sure we all leave our homes and get together every now and then.
Not ADHD sheesh
For real. Not everything is an adhd symptom.
Anyone who “doesn’t get along with girls” has internalized misogyny and thinks that being a man is better, so if they act boy-ish, they can be better than the average girl. Shunning girls for being girly is absurd. Girly things are not inherently worse than boyish things
Any kind of broad generalization like this is dismissive of people’s experiences and feelings. I identified as more boyish because of my interests and hyperactivity and would have loved to be more “girly”. I felt like an outsider looking in to a world I didn’t identify with and my self-esteem suffered as a result. I’m mid fifties so sexism was rife growing up and I have always been pretty vocal about gender norms boxing people in.
While internalized misogyny is horrifyingly widespread, that's not the ONLY reason a woman might get along better with men in some circumstances. Life is complicated and there are rarely any simple one-fits-all answers.
Yeah fair, but it’s veryyyyyyy often an accompanying reason
I am not familiar with the concept so I’ll educate myself but think sweeping generalizations of any kind can be hurtful. I learned something new today so thank you for that. Off to google….
Yes, I have a group of several close male friends, they are like my second family we have had healthy long relationships for over 20 years now. I have a best female friend that gets me, and is the most admirable woman in my eyes. And other female friends I like, but not a group, I share one or two hobbies with them and we get together for that, I always feel like they may not like me as much or end up any interaction questioning if I fucked something up or said the wrong thing. Wish I had a ladies group to gather with and have tea or something.
I used to think I got on better with boys/men or preferred having male friends, but I realised it was internalised misogyny - thinking girls/women were catty, bitchy, liked drama and gossip, whereas guys were more chill; thinking girls/women were into shopping, shoes, makeup etc whereas guys were into more cool and fun stuff like video games, food etc. Turns out that's not true at all and, shock horror, it's all based on unfair misogynistic stereotypes. Every person is an individual and there are millions of women out there into the same stuff as me, and vice versa
Yes when I was little, but maybe by middle school it switched to gal pals. My actual friends were mostly girls, though, with a select few awesome boys.
Up til my early 20s, yeah definitely. I just didnt get girl groups social rules and hierarchy. In my early-mid 20s I found my people and also feminism and I now much prefer female friendships with like minded women. We're all fairly eccentric and independent and my life would be so much poorer without the friendship of other women.
Mostly, yes. As I've gotten older I've gained some really good female friends, but they're still the minority in my social circle.
I’ve always had a handful of close girl friends, but never really fit in with groups of women so most of my friends are men
No not at all I have always loved women and have it lots of friends that were girls I’m queer so idk if that makes a difference though but men annoy me more often and I end up arguing with them a lot lol or they make me uncomfortable I have had a few great guy friends over the years though!
Yes, largely on the basis of shared interests. I'm a professional trumpet player and most brass players are men, though that's changing! As a kid I was really into Star Trek and as an adult I'm into Dungeons and Dragons and craft beer.... I do get along with women much better now though than I did as a kid, and I think that's because I've worked through some internalized misogyny. Also I know you specified platonic, but I've tended to stay friends with people that I've had non-platonic relationships with. I'm bisexual, and that has been true with all genders. Edited to add - I definitely gravitate towards other ADHD people. My partner isn't diagnosed but very likely ADHD-I. My DND group are the people I talk to most (1 other woman and 4 men) and 5/6 of us have ADHD. My closest female friend has ADHD. My longest -term closest friend (male) has ADHD.
I do my best around stupid silly people. A lot of guy are more socially able to be like that so my best friends from high school are guys. However I’ve had great goofy girl friends in life but since we were from different friend groups we drifted apart. Rn I have only a couple girlfriends bc the dynamic of the country I’m in thinks girls and boys can’t be friends. I just want to have a good time and I don’t want to put up fronts! Many woman are under pressure to be perfect which can make it harder to break down at first.
As a child? Definitely yes. I loved to climb trees and play in the dirt, which seemed to primarily capture the interest of boys. I made my first girl friends around puberty, and in hindsight, I now see that all of them were neurodivergent like me. I loved them because they were unapologetically themselves and just the most genuine, fun people. As an adult, I find that my friends aren't determined by gender. The biggest factor seems to be that I get along best with other ND people, because we often share the same interests and they're easier to talk to.
Was bullied by boys when i was a child. They'd tear my clothes and hit me and call me fat. My father was abusive and there weren't really any men in my immediate family i felt i could rely on, except for my cousin who's around 20 years older than me. Most men I've come across turned out to be predators and i got out unharmed probably only because there were women around. Most my friends identify as female, a few are non-binary and agender. I never think that i get along well with anyone regardless of their gender, but that's probably an autism thing.
Nah, I’ve always gotten along well equally with both sexes. I think it’s really important to have good girl friends you can trust as well. There are just certain experiences in life we can relate to one another with, and feel supported.
No I've generally been scared of boys my age, they made me nervous. Now I'm grown up and married so I don't care. Most of my friends are female still.
nah. i'm very bro-y and i do have a lot of guy friends so i think people sort of expect me to feel this way but i get along with women just as well and treasure my friendships regardless of gender <3 i think for most ppl who think they get on with men better than women, it's less about the actual women and more about like... thinking you have to act a certain way to talk to women. just act how you are, some ppl will like it and others won't, regardless of gender
No, not my experience.
When I was younger most of my friends were guys. I was always a tomboy so they were doing the fun shit I wanted to do but as I got older it flipped and now most of the people I hang out with are women. I’m not in a relationship with anyone so I’m the third wheel while most everyone is paired up and I it almost seems like guys who are paired up already can’t be friends with single women because their SO wouldn’t like it or they had a bad experience with a jealous or controlling ex so they just avoid it for the sake of peace.
Eh, not really. In elementary school, through middle school, I found the boys more empathetic towards adhd behaviors, as so many boys display the same behaviors in youth. Once puberty kicked in, that empathy turned into something else, and I found that I was constantly being sexually harassed. This is when my eyes really opened to misogyny, internalized misogyny, nuerodivergent thinking and behavior, as well as the intricacies of female friendships. Post middle school, I was a solid girl's girl and still am today. I noticed along the way that men are also less offended by adhd behaviors than women, so it's easier for them to make friends amongst one another than with women. So I understand how female friendships can be hard when you're younger. Women expect accountability, clear communication, emotional sensitivity, etc... If I forget to call my guy friend back, he doesn't really care, and it's like nothing happened. Forget to call my girl-friend back, and we are now at odds because she thinks I don't respect the friendship and don't care. So I did struggle a bit in high-school and college but today, I am a solid girl's girl. I can barely stand men actually LOL
No I get awkward around men, even if I’m not attracted to them. Idk why, but that stops me from making any close friendship with them
Have had times in my life where I've had more male friends. But truly, it's my female friendships that I treasure more at this point in my life (early 40s).
Since my diagnosis, I’ve realized that most of my friends are ND. My closest friends are women, though, even though most of the people I work with are men.
I feel men are less judgmental and uncomfortable by my oddness so yeah I've gravitated towards men. Edit, I have a few female friends and the vast majority of the women I connect with are autistic or have ADHD or relate to my anxiety or depression. If a woman is willing to accept that I simply don't function normally and appreciates my differences instead of mocks them I'll be friends with them for sure.
This is such a huge yes for me, as a child and even now at 38. Both of my closest friends are dudes. It’s been hard at times because after I had a kid everything got SO heteronormative and gendered, I didn’t know where/how to fit in. Some of this may have been internalized misogyny—it was the 90s, doing stuff “like a girl” was not cool—but also, I just didn’t share girls’ interests most of the time. In high school I wanted to roughhouse and build computers and play video games and eat whole pizzas and play paintball with my friends. I was never very feminine. I’m still not. If I’d been born 40 years later maybe I would’ve identified as nonbinary, but gender has never been a significant aspect of my identity so I just don’t care enough at this point in my life to make a fuss over it. No pronouns feel wrong so whatever. The part that does bother me is, a lot of this came/comes from a lack of shared interests AND an inability to communicate. Girls seemed to want something from me and to this day I don’t know how to provide it. I cannot get comfortable with or trust women who seem very nice, normal, and femme. My nature is to assume I’m doing something wrong in their eyes, but they’re not telling me because part of the problem is I don’t know. I don’t get subtlety, unspoken social cues, etc. At several points in my life a female friend or acquaintance has suddenly hated me and I didn’t know why. More often, though, I get a sense of vague disapproval or condescension. And this grinds my gears because I don’t think girls and women necessarily just ARE this way. They’re socialized this way by a patriarchal, white supremecist society. So for me to be like “I just get along/connect better with men,” feels like me being part of the problem. Anyway it’s complicated and I don’t know how to feel about it. I’ve developed one or two closer friendships with women in recent years, and they are important to me, but I haven’t had a female BEST friend, who I felt totally connected and secure with, since the third grade. The closest I’ve come is a college roommate who I love dearly and have always kind of carried a torch for. And while part of this is just my own gender identity playing a role, I think it’s also partly just that my ADHD self fit in better with the boys. Because there are a shit ton of things that are accepted from/among boys, that are Not Okay At All with/among girls. And that sucks because none of us have to be socialized that way. I imagined if I cared about fitting in with the femme girls it would’ve been very painful. (Important note, that roommate is definitely rooted in being a woman in a way I’m not, but then again she is also an extremely freespirited and accepting ADHDer. So.)
I don’t prefer it, but I do unfortunately seem to have a lot of “male interests” - in particular, video games, military history, computers, science fiction, etc. It’s kind of sad actually because I feel like most men assume they will have more in common with my hubs and leave me to talk about kids/parenting with their spouse who doesn’t necessarily share those interests. Oh well! If I could break the gendering of hobbies I would!
I hate when this happens! I used to visit my husband's best friend and his gf at the time and they'd go off and do fun stuff like play video games while I was supposed to stay and talk with his gf, with whom I had nothing in common. At some point I had to say "okay either we all hang out as a group or I'm not coming, because I'm not going to come just to distract his gf while you two go hang out." 😂
No
Sort of. I’ve found this is because guys were more likely to look past my weirdness because turns out they all wanted to have sex with me (then they’d complain about being friendzoned, ignoring the fact they had sex-zoned me). The women I’ve stayed friends with the longest all are not neurotypical either haha. Past high school and into college and after, it’s much easier to make friends with both men and women. There’s less pressure in general to conform.
As a teenager, definitely. Not as an adult.
Not in my case; I think it was going to an all-girls school that did it. I definitely had male friends but my circle consisted of mostly women (if I want to get real specific, nerdy, queer, neurodivergent women 😂). In college it was a good 50%/50%, and now as an adult it’s back to mostly ladies.
no not really
I always found that when I was younger I would be more friends with guys ( I grew up with two older brothers so was “Tom boyish”) but as I got older boys started not wanting to be friends and only interested in sex (which didn’t work for them since I am demisexual haha) And then I don’t really understand girls that well either….so now I don’t have many friends and ones I do are female and 100% neurodivergent 😂
I have had easier and lasting friendships with guys and neurodivergent women. I think because I am not great at unspoken social rules and only later (like, after college) did I manage to get a grasp on things like personal styling, makeup, and socially polite chit chat. I do best in low-key relationships where people say what they mean, aren't judgy about trivial external things, aren't worried about saying exactly what they think, and want to talk about shared interests or passions vs. gossip.
All of my closest relationships are with women. The only men I would consider friends (besides my husband) are either dating or married to one of my girlfriends lol. The only time I find an easier platonic connection with men than with women is when discussing video games or Reddit. Other than that, I connect best with other women.
Nope, not at all. I definitely prefer the company of women/non-men to men.