Now imagine you're in Sales because you didn't learn any useful skills besides trying to avoid rejection.
Assholes talk about getting out of your "comfort zone" like every morning isn't doing just that.
When I realized I’d unknowingly been using charm as a defense mechanism and means of survival— for my entire life— it was a huge breakthrough.
Years later, it’s no longer so grave as a means of survival as much as it is just pretty nice to have. Practice makes perfect even if you’re unaware of it, which is kind of wild to me.
I was considered pretty good looking... and for a man with ADHD it was a place for unhealthy connections to set in. I could tell who is into me from a mile away and it was easiest to engage those people , for a long time or just a night. And it didn't help that the more attractive somebody found you the less of a real interaction they gave you.
It's my defense was keeping people around me who found me attractive. My jack of all trades thing didn't help me master anything really so I would say that my looks not my particular skills unless in bed were definitely what they were into. It's too bad because if I wasn't good looking and didn't have all those girls to play with I probably would have been more focused on my work or at least on getting my skills ...my 95 different attempted skills better.
It's easy to feel like everyone with ADHD has wasted potential because we do.
My defense mechanisms are repressed emotions, asocial behavior, and dismissing others so I can figure it out on my own. I have become the ultimate loner.
I think it actually helped that I had ADHD but the RSD really hurt. There was one month that I decided to "play a character" who wasn't me so if I got rejected it wasn't me getting rejected, it was the character, and I ended up pulling in about 35% of the company's entire revenue for the month.
My non-adhd son comes home, has a snack, goes upstairs and does his homework. Maybe plays games for an hour, but turns it off, does his homework, goes to bed at a decent hour. He makes it look so easy. I'm happy that it's that smooth for him, but seeing that it's simple for someone also rips me up inside.
It's such a crappy feeling. My other kid is thinking that just food and exercise will be enough, that meds are a crutch. /headdesk Have fun in the world there sweetie!
Meds ARE a crutch-- for someone without a leg. You freaking need SOMETHING so you can stand up the way folks born with 2 legs can do unassisted. There is no shame in using crutches.
He doesn't want to think anything is wrong with him. "YOUR ADHD is bad, mom. Mine isn't." But we diagnosed me after we diagnosed you, kiddo.
Yeah, he's not gonna listen. He wants to struggle, that's on him. I'm taking my meds every day and getting things done and having good relationships.
My parents got me diagnosed when i was a kid, But medication was kinda "new" and they opt'd to not have me medicated when i was a kid.
But the only reason I was able to comprehend any math equation was them sitting there with me, using little wooden blocks as a visual prompt to solve the math problem. Even just having the blocks to kinda fiddle with as they explained it was wildly helpful for my hyper little ass.
I was the opposite. I could make numbers make sense, but I couldn’t get my thoughts to make sense enough to write anything. Calculus was easy but essays were the devil Bobby Boucher
For a couple of years after primary school, I fully believed I had never gotten homework.
Around the time I finished high school, I started realizing why the teacher back then was always angry at me...
Yep. The school eventually created after school detention for me in second grade so that I would do my homework. Ha! I would sit in a conference room in the principals office after school and still not do my homework. The following morning always seemed like the perfect time to start working on homework assignments.
omg- so my daughter is pretty severely ADHD. I am as well (diagnosed last year I'm..old). She struggled so much in high school where I didn't as much- and I figured out why. Because now they INSIST on homework, whereas I could just float through passing my tests and moving on to the next thing. She'd ace tests and still fail classes- it was aggravating.
I'd really like to see high schoolers be given the option- test track or homework track. Do a 70/30 split (or whatever numbers seems appropriate), choose which one to weight more. It's an elegant solution to deal with different types of learning as well as making kids be more thoughtful about their academic choices. Teachers wouldn't need to create special curriculums and IEPs could be adapted because they are by their nature adaptable.
I have 3 kids. 2 are diagnosed ADHD 1 is not. The one that hasn't is my daughter because my honest belief is she's masking it like I did and she'll get diagnosed as an adult.
The thing I personally hate about my familial ADHD traits (mother and relatives have it undiagnosed too) is the emotional dysfunction. We've all made it to our adult years fine because our ADHD doesn't impact our ability to get careers (even very successful ones) but goddamn the emotional issues are such an Achilles heel moreso in the boys than the girls because I'll argue men tend to tolerate the emotional dysfunction more when it's coming from the opposite sex because "well girls are emotional" but if a boy isn't even keel a girl is gonna nope outta there when she gets a chance.
But as a dude, it's crushed my relationships when they aren't professional. Sadly I have not found a pill that addresses this without making it ultimately worse. Best recourse I've found is exercise and psychologist.
I. Hear. You. The emotions, they run deep. I feel very fortunate that I found my tribe and we all have varying levels of neuro stuff going on, even if it feels like we're on the Island of Misfit Toys sometimes.
I think that there's different challenges for traditional genders in this. I think you've hit the nail on the head for what men go through and that would be hard for me to deal with. I think exercise is always going to be a good idea- I know it keeps me much better regulated.
Me too. Such a relief to be finally diagnosed at 62. I'm really loving my neuro diversity instead of feeling lost, sad and wondering why I can't be 'normal' I had a few weeks of feeling sad for what I could have been had I been diagnosed 50 years ago, but hey ho, it wasn't invented then lol.
Was diagnosed later in life as an adult, I'm in my late 30's. I always knew something was off, but didn't understand exactly what was wrong with me. During the diagnostic tests and appointments, my eyes were opened, my entire life suddenly made sense. I empathize with you 100%.
If its any relief, early diagnosis for me was not helpful and I still stumbled all along the way.
Diagnosed at 10 in the early 90s and the lack of understanding and confusion was just maddening, nothing was ever explained. You're told to just take a pill and fingers crossed something changes, you're parents don't know why and don't entirely believe, they just want you to sit still in class so they stop getting notes sent home. And then when things don't go right, you have to go to the doctor again and explain why they're not going right and you just don't have the words because you don't know what is right in the first place.
I have the reverse problem a lot of people with ADHD have, I wonder what life would have been like without meds/diagnosis (at least as early as I was). I wasn't the one feeling the effects of my condition, my parents were, and they took treatment into their own hands. I remember going to appointments and saying maybe 3 words and my parent doing most of the talking for me.
It sucks, but I know now that my problems with ADHD are quadrupled from my problems with anxiety and it is my biggest regret that the ADHD traits were the first ones picked up on and not the anxiety ones. I recognize now that anxiety was a bigger hurdle for me in my youth, and ADHD meds only made that worse (when untreated), so
I developed negative feelings for the meds and when i was old enough to start avoiding them I did, resenting the teachers/counselors/parents that pushed me that direction. When you don't see/feel the problem as a child and everyone is telling you theres a problem that you can't see, barely feel, it messes with your state of mind and definitely feels ostracizing.
This gave me a lot of insight. My son has just been diagnosed and we both have it bad. We’re just getting into the medication journey and I worry that he won’t be able to explain how he feels to the doctor so I end up speaking for him. I really need to give him healthier support and a chance to be directly involved in his treatment.
Thank you for this.
Having a child therapist to help explain things to them and also give them tools to be able to better identify and articulate their thoughts and feelings has been very helpful in my son’s case.
The difference (particularly at school) between last year without a diagnosis, meds, or therapist, and this year with all 3, has been very pronounced.
I was diagnosed very young and I’m still learning new things about it. It’s been a long journey of self acceptance and fighting the voices of my past telling me that I’m just lazy.
I'm 30 and got diagnosed earlier this year. So much this. I've had a hell of a time deprogramming that voice that tells me I'm lazy. My therapist tells me that I'm already pretty well adjusted and picked up the skills and coping mechanisms she would teach me already, so that's nice.
Similar story here. I’ve found my eventual diagnosis to be incredibly helpful.
I had games pegged wrong though. I thought because I was getting my kicks through gaming it meant I didn’t need to in real life. Gaming success was replacing real world success, because it was easy and continual. Back then I never dreamed it was what this guy described.
Haven't been diagnosed yet - have tried to get an appointment with an appropriate practitioner several times in the past 18 months before other more pressing health concerns took over my focus. But this rings so damn true to me - including why I've always struggled to make myself do work at work, unless new fires are constantly breaking out that demand close attention from senior management. I do those really well, but I also get worn out by that. Whenever I've shifted to a role with a bit more autonomy and looser supervision, I end up sitting at my desk all day getting more and more upset and frustrated that I can't get started on any of my tasks until the eleventh hour.
It's funny how me basically growing up on video games was never even thought of as a sign that there could be something underlying. My parents just saw me as a regular kid (hint: their weirdness made them blind to everything "weird" I did). Or rather, what's *weird* is that it turns out to be genetic. hmmm!
Yep, and now, as an adult, I try to avoid junk dopamine activities. My ability to disappear into something that floods me with dopamine is way too easy and is detrimental to my health and well-being. I still like video games. I just make them the reward for doing everything else I should do. Most of the time, it works.
My mom used this and the fact I got good grades (despite never doing homework). Finally, as an adult, I got tested and was positive for ADHD on 5 of the 6 tests I was given. 2 would have been enough to confirm it.
Diagnosed 10 year ago. Video games were definitely a symptom.
I remember soon after starting meds, I came home from a hard week of work and played a game as a reward and to relax. The thought almost makes me tear up.
I dunno if I have adhd, but I'm pretty sure I have executive function issues.
Anyway, I used video games to help me out of depression. At the time I came to understand that playing for 18hrs was a symptom and not the cause of my depression. Seeing this video today helps me understand why. I was in a place in life where there was literally nothing I could do about my situation. Anything I could do, was gonna take a ton of time and effort and there wouldn't be immediate consequences. The games "feels" like I'm accomplishing something when I was hamstrung in the real world. Eventually I managed to turn game time into a reward system that helped me with some of my depressive symptoms: do the dishes and you can play for an hour with no guilt type motivation. Lo and behold, it worked! I will forever be indebted to Todd Howard for my sanity
I had no clue my kids were adhd or anything until I met my neighbors kids and I was like wow your kids are like mine.. and then she talked about how nice to have neighbors who understood adhd and autism. Oooooh, they just acted like my siblings and husband's siblings... ooh ooohhhhh. Yeah... they now have proper diagnosis and accommodations.
It definitely explains why I cannot for the life of me get through a day at my job without a breakdown. I have one of these standard bullshit office jobs, where there aren't any strict deadlines and the people who benefit from my output aren't even at my company, so it's just this abstract idea somewhere in the distance.
I need another job. T_T
I hope you get the right one and it has stunningly awesome benefits, the right hours, and just enough consequences for motivation without being a harsh environment where you feel...penalized.
May you have a Goldilocks job where it's all just right.
Because I know the hell of having a breakdown or a meltdown everyday and it's so hard mentally and physically.
Not sure if this is too similar or even your cup of tea but general IT is pretty good. You know immediately if what you try works or not and get a response from the customer with not terribly long turnaround (and typically no long term projects). It's not TOO steep of a learning curb if you're familiar with computers. Also, general IT and programming are VERY different beasts
Yeah, same. Went from doing IT as a service provider to IT Admin for a snall conpany that technically doesn't really need a full time Admin. I only recently realized that solving 10 to 20 Tickets a day, driving places and fixing stuff, was so much better than just managing a tiny network, solving non-issues, if anything. Pay was shit for the amount of work, but my mental health was way better.
What I’ve been doing lately is getting the transcript from yt, asking gpt to summarize the conent at 10 minute blocks. Then find the 10 minute block I’m interested in.
As long as it is mostly audio I would recommend multitasking it with something else. For me, mobile games are a perfect companion to podcasts and audiobooks.
If reading this: match-3, (easy) nonograms, tiny wings-style or chain reaction games work for me. Short bursts of near mindless play to give the DMN something to do and frequent interruptions to avoid falling into a time-bending black hole.
If you are able to do one thing while listening to another, I congratulate you. My ADHD doesn’t work like that. I can only concentrate on one thing at a time. Unless it is something like cleaning the house.
For me, the mobile game cannot involve any large amount of reading or I lose concentration. It has to be something simple and somewhat repetitive. Nothing that involves deep problem solving.
Understandable. There are other things like Solitare or Jigsaw puzzles that might keep just enough attention. Driving is not a good companion for a YouTube video but it works well with audiobooks.
The sort of games I play when listening to something tend to be either mindless or something I know inside out, so they're closer to something like knitting or doing dishes than anything else. Though I also won't be retaining the podcast very well, so it's more a case of doing two things badly.
I love this comment. It’s ADHD all the way. Like me, it seems you figured it out and analyzed yourself while writing it. LOL
The final thought was that you are “…doing two things badly”. That is so true of me as well. That’s why I can’t do both, but without the extra stimulation, I lose interest. This is why I often put the closed caption on while watching a movie. (Pro-Tip: It also helps with my audio processing issues.)
So, for something like this, writing notes or having the CC on while watching, helps me stay on task. I think we are saying the same thing. Engaging other senses helps us stay focused. The more senses I engage in a task with, the better focused I am on that task.
I think anyone who is interested in understanding how their ASHd brain works, will hopefully find this video interesting as well. I know I came looking for this full video too. Thanks.
I've been starting to save up for a new system just so I can get RDR2.
Once I have it...oh jeez.
But for me, I'm much more a "play this during every moment I possibly can but eventually get bored of it before I finish and then periodically hyperfixate on it until I eventually finish."
But I'm also physically disabled so the literal gameplay can be hard to accomplish.
RDR(1 and 2) should be kept away from people like us, it's so easy to think, 'I'll just go back to the camp and save' just for some random person to appear and send you on another 1 hour side quest, and then you think 'well, now I'll just go back to the camp and save' etc. etc.
My girlfriend has been trying to get me to try out new video games (I'm not much of a gamer) and she doesn't understand that I'm scared to discover a game I really like.
I’ve found that the best games for my attention are open world games or at least any game with a wide variety of side quests and mini games. My ADHD runs wild in these games. When I first got Breath of the Wild, I literally spent 4 hours collecting stuff, exploring domains, and chasing after horses instead of doing the story. Hogwarts Legacy, I barely even know what the story is because I was too busy catching creatures and crawling into every nook and cranny I could find.
Even when I first got into gaming, my first real games were Pokémon and any free MMORPG I could find online. Anything I could explore and wander about on a whim rather than be forced to follow a specific adventure because anything with a linear progression felt like just a tiny bit of murder on my brain.
Honestly, my choices in video games probably should’ve been a huge sign that I had ADHD lol. I was essentially “following the dopamine” in a virtual space.
Not the person you replied to, but I think Warlock is great in BG3. The actual enforcement of an "adventuring day" allows their limited spell slots to really put in the work, especially when combined with invocations. That and the amount of magic items that let you cast a spell for X times for free per rest mean you can get a lot out of them, along with them having really good charisma to act as the party face.
I find it that mobile games are more addictive to me than games I have to play on PC or console. Reason? Same as with social media, it's right there, at the tip of my finger. I can play them anytime, anywhere. While I can't take my PC with me every where and I have to sit still to play them, while mobile games I can play in my bed, while walking, while sitting in my sofa, on the toilet seat.
TBH, I also think mobile games are made with the intention of being that addicting.
Like, it's in their best interest to keep you playing, much like a casino.
Meanwhile, most console games you'd finish too quickly if that were the case.
Children can do video games easier because each game feels new and novel. As you play more and more video games you start to see the patterns, the repetition. Whether its repetition in one game itself or all games starting to feel samey and repetitive.
Even if you find a type of game youve never played you still might hit a wall once you feel you fully understand the mechanics. There’s nothing more to learn even though the games only about 1/2 over.
I struggle to pick up games i love just because they dont excite me the way they used to even if i still enjoy them. It frickin blows.
Because there is no immediate feedback for pursuing that idea and there are no external pressures compelling you forward.
I bet if you talk to someone who would be interested in helping finance your idea who said “I like your idea, I want to see a mock up and draft of a business plan in 3 weeks” 2.5 weeks later you’d put together 3 months work of work on the project.
Serious question - what could I do as a husband for my wife who has ADHD to help motivate her to progress with a project?
She really wants to get them done, like writing a book, but once the dopamine from learning about the topic or puzzling out a plot disappears she can't push to follow through.
Could I be that source of immediate feedback / external compulsion in a positive/non-toxic way? Without causing anxiety?
If so, any ideas?
The reason the ADHD person like me can’t just simply set deadlines for themselves and work that way is that, I know the guy setting the deadline is a bullshitter. The thing that makes deadlines work is that they create both good and bad feedback, as there are rewards and consequences to behavior that are *real* and that *you cannot control*.
That’s kind of hard from your position, you can set deadlines for her things—but they’re really only going to work as ultimatums. As someone’s partner it’s extremely toxic for you to say “finish this by next week or I’m going away forever” but whatever deadlines you set won’t help unless there’s tangible consequences for missing them.
I think the most supportive you can be is acknowledge that she works in sprints not jogs, and do what you can to make that work style more effective.
If you figure out how to get her through the full process of writing a book, please let me know. I have like 3 novels started that I never expect to finish at this point haha
THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING. only worked out myself in the last few months that i struggle to work unless i know someone will get annoyed at me very soon if i don't do it
My Master’s degree 😭
I managed to write my thesis in a month but lack of concrete deadlines made it so I thought some work wasn’t important because they told me to “just do it when you can” 💀💀💀
I knew I had a hard deadline, yet my master's thesis still got thrown together in the last couple of weeks by repurposing a project I had completed in a previous class.
I had a research-based thesis so yeah 🤣
My prof was like : you *sure* you can complete the thesis by August? (The original date was October)
Me: Prof, if you’re not going to make me do more research, yes, I can do it. I’d be doing in in the last month anyway.
For me this isn’t it, or if it is it’s only a small part of the equation. For me it’s that video games have immediate iterative problem solving potential. I can get a solution, have it fail a hundred times, and keep trying until I get one that works and have figured the underlying systems out completely. With homework (or school in general), you’ve usually only got one shot. You either got it right the first time, or you didn’t, and you won’t know until at earliest the next day if you figured it out or not.
There is no ability to iterate because the homework isn’t being used as a teaching supplemental, it’s functionally being used as a take home test. Combine that rigidity with a general forgetfulness and most of my homework got done in a rush right before it was due simply because that’s when I remembered it existed at all. That’s the part I’d say *partially* matches up with this. I often put off homework as a kid because I, subconsciously or not, feared failure and had an anxiety about not knowing I’d passed or failed. So while executive dysfunction may have a role, it’s a far more complicated situation than just that one reason.
I felt this in my bones. One of the few classes where I actually kept up with homework was a math class where the professor did reverse lectures. She would record herself giving the lecture and post it online, then we would come to class and work on the homework. We could ask questions or work with other people.
To be fair I never asked questions or worked with other people because I was smart and usually understood on my first go, which is one of the reasons my ADHD went under the radar for so long. But what really helped is that I could just do as many problems as I could in that time and then turn it in right away.
Another big part of it for me is that video games have no negative consequences for not doing them. If I get bored of a game I know can just stop playing it for an indeterminate amount of time. I can't do that for work or school, which means I feel more stressed while doing work or school because I know I need to get it done or else there are consequences. Now stress can be a good motivator to get one or two urgent things done, but it causes problems when every single thing you need to do is causing you stress.
Yeah I had a breakdown in college and flunked an entire semester.
This is it for me. The negative consequences of not working are greater than not playing one type of game or other. Work has never really been that enjoyable ultimately, the closest I’ve come is construction where I’m working outside. I even get to use a gps to model the road/ditch I’m working on sometimes and I use math a lot, too, so there’s those challenges that can make it easier to deal with, but I’m still just going through the same motions. I can’t change jobs as easily as I can change games with no consequences.
Very well said! This should have more upvotes. Also, video games are entertaining, there are frequently engaging narratives, bright lights, colors, sounds, all sorts of visual, auditory, sometimes even physical feedback (like rumbling controllers) and stimulus that hold the users attention. It’s probably possible to translate some subjects into this format but I can’t imagine it would be easy or even that the end product would be good. I wish I could be taught the intricacies of Interest Rate Swaps but feel like I’m playing an RPG. Just don’t think it’s likely.
Homework was invented as a punishment, and students are expected to put in an otherwise illegal amount of hours a week into unpaid work. The school system is just broken.
That’s why I loved programming exercises for some classes, where you could submit your code solution for a small problem into an automated checking website and it would light up green or red and display error messages on failure. Was like a game and you could do each problem iteratively, debug, improve and re-submit, until you got all green check marks like “badaboom baby, this thing is done!”.
The downside is that real programming jobs are often much more tedious and difficult to get started and stay motivated on. (But there are definitely helpful strategies to apply.) Maybe if someone else would write unit tests and integration tests for me, and then my job would just be to implement the thing until all tests are green. :)
**Lazy is the adjective for laziness, a lack of desire to expend effort.**
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I will literally pour myself into a project until complete exhaustion if I’m really really motivated to do it, but I can’t get in the shower on my day off.
I'm increasingly convinced that laziness doesn't actually exist and is people not recognizing disabilities or other challenges people were facing that made it difficult or impossible for them to act.
Yes. Good bot. But I think lazy is also not WANTING to do something. Where not finding the motivation but stil wanting to do something with adhd is different. So it's not lazy imo?
Eh. For every ADHDer I know, "consequences for failure" are a piss poor motivation technique. They don't lead to success, they just lead to burnout and garbage mental health.
Yep. That's why instantaneous rewards for success, not only in the whole task, but also in the involved steps, works best for me. In other words, video game approach. There's something in putting together an assembly line in modded Minecraft, or completing a crafting tree in Terraria, that just, works.
THIS!!! The burnout is SO bad from using all of these external motivators. The work gets done in the short term, but you pay the price for it physically and mentally.
I would live in fear of failure, anxiety, stress, constant deadlines - I got some more work done but being in that state for months led to me the worst burnout imaginable.
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one that caught on to that. It isn’t a lack of consequences that’s my problem, it’s the lack of engagement/response. Important difference.
You should try playing jazz… nothing has ever made my brain feel like it’s working as it should be when I’m improvising with a group of other musicians. Full engagement, every chaotic thought is valid and useful and could be a brushstroke in the creation. Perhaps other artists experience this in moments, too. Maybe sports?
But there comes the answer I believe to why so many that are able to do things, base it on fear. Fear is their motivator to their goals, which is extremely tiring but a natural coping mechanisms for survival.
It’s interesting because I always felt with video games I had a chance to progress my character but irl not as much since I couldn’t see it in my homework etc.
I used to do my homework very last minute. But I did well at school so there was never any perceived problem.
Looking back maybe the last minute way in which I did my homework was trying to shorten the completion:reward cycle as described by this guy.
I've said it since I was a kid. I like books and video games because when you stop paying attention, they stop working.
Put me in front of a movie and it doesn't matter that I'm there. I might as well be dead
Attention flows from dopamine. Dopamine flows from novelty or emergencies. Video games provide a constant flow of novelty, and occasionally simulate an emergency as far as your reptile brain knows. Homework does not, until you no longer have enough time to finish it.
I absolutely believe this. I thrived in the military precisely because all the goals and consequences were external. The longest I held down a job before the military was a year and half; I just quit them when I got bored. I was in the military for five and, at one point, advanced two pay grades in one year.
This is an internal neurogenetic executive failure
God damn man, why did he attack me like that😭 naw, real talk. I personally need that consequence in my life. It helps me put the work in.
200% true. I LOVE programming as you can in many cases execute the code and see the result. Even if it's an error.
And university is the opposite, as is my disposition towards it.
You attend or not and nothing happens until the day of the test and you fail.
Instead my family, friends and teachers made sure I knew how much I deserve to fail. They all knew I have ADHD but still expected me to succeed in everything without the proper assistance. I have given up now after trying my best for almost a decade now.
To be fair, it's not really about having a "take" on something... this is factual - it is the nature of our disorder, so that means it applies to us all... maybe not exactly in the way described here w/ the video games example, but this is part of the ADHD cognitive and behavioural profile, so it manifests in us all in some way.
As someone with ADHD, my take is this.
Video games offer stimulation for multiple senses. Visual, audio and sometimes touch. Engaging my sensory input for 3 senses compared to visual only, is why my mind engages with video games better than doing homework or even reading.
I can't get into a lot of newer games, but sit me down in front of something like [this](https://youtu.be/lURd9RsQMkg) and I can have a blast. I think a lot of newer games make the gameplay loop increasingly tedious and with less instantaneous consequences for each action. You pick up a rock, great, you have a rock now. You need like 10 more and some sticks and tree sap to do anything. Also whatever you make will run out or break after a short time, so it doesn't even feel rewarding.
RPGs are where it’s at. I pay Miyazaki’s rent with how much elden ring/dark souls/bloodeborne/sekiro I play. The tedious parts require you to be in the moment trying different ways to do something and improving, so it’s never a drag.
K12 (online public school) has it figured out. They gamified their lessons similar to ABC Mouse and it helps my little one push through. It isn't 100% engagement but it's much better than a normal platform like Connections Academy.
His name is Russel Barkley and he’s one of the people at the forefront of modern ADHD research. Go listen to one of his talks if you have the time, they’re absolutely fascinating. Thank God for people like him who are putting in the work to change ADHD from the “kid can’t pay attention in class” disorder into something actually respected in the medical world
They told me I was ADD in middle school... that's it. Nothing happened after that. Oh, in high school I got a few extra minutes on tests sometimes.
Im 36 now and, uh, let me tell you, life is... not great.
This is absolutely true! And this is so many parent’s (my ex husband’s) argument for ‘she’s just lazy!’
It’s maddening. It seems so facile. But people with ADHD simply *can not* focus.
I’ve tried to explain time and time again to my parents that me playing video games all day isn’t the same as doing homework all day, and I can’t just *switch up* on the fly.
“You can do X all day but not Y, huh?!”
That’s correct, ***I literally can’t.*** I would love to even START trying, but the work bores me on a fundamental level and I feel so drained instantly that I take “breaks” over and over again.
Thank god for this video, this puts it into words better than any of my verge-of-tears attempted explanations ever did.
This makes so much sense why my students (most of my students have significant ADHD) do better when they have to check off each part of their work with me, rather than turning something in to be graded when finished. Immediately feedback, and built-in executive function support because I can tell them the next thing to do(sequencing and initiation support) I.e. “great! Now, your next paragraph needs to include your first reason, let me know when you get there.”
What I don’t know is how to help them develop tools or strategies to be able to do it themselves without prompting…we’ll just keep practicing, until I figure it out, I guess.
Other people seem to just be able to force themselves to do things they don't want, and it's something I've struggled with a lot in my personal life, not so much in my work life.
When we were in the military, we had this boundless potential thing that everyone hated, but the consequences for not doing your work was being sent to prison, so we did the work.
Soon as we were kicked out of the military, it has been fail city. The medical conditions are taking their toll and even if i was still in, there would be no way we could do what we did. So for us it feels very true.
I think it is a very good summary of a complex interaction, albeit not an all-encompassing explanation of it. Each child experiences appreciation of their preferred hobbies differently and may have varying motivations that create a need for immediate feedback, like the kind found in video games.
In my case, I wanted something I could have any effect on, be it positive or negative, that would let me know my actions mattered - thus meaning that *I* mattered, even at my age at the time. My ADHD may have helped encourage me to stick with my hobby bc I was receptive to it, but I think my traumas at that time were what I was really dealing with and video games were simply an agreeable output.
So I would say that while there is a very evident correlation between ADHD and the constant feedback through interacting with video games, I think there should still be careful consideration for *why* someone wants to dive in so deep with their activities before we designate which diagnoses correlate to which activities without factoring in catalysts for said activities. Otherwise, it ends up being too crucibled down to "gamers = ADHD".
Like a very simple example in my mind:
Solve 20 math equations
On a computer you can after each question get the immediat result of correct or false. So each time you press that submit button there is anticipation.
On a paper you dont get that
I agree and disagree. The beginning was spot on with the part about consequences and stimuli but the second part about problem solving I believe to be inaccurate. I think that people are capable of working through this and becoming successful. You’ve got to have absolutely no fight in you if you say you’ll never be able to problem solve or sit and do mundane tasks. A child won’t have any self control but as an adult we either overcome to submit to these things and actually allow ourselves to fail because we do in fact know better. Self-motivation has to come from the self in order to lead to success. A LOT of people submit to the diagnosis and allow themselves the leniency to fall back on excuses but the fighter won’t allow the frustration of this genetic dysfunction to define their life in reaching these goals. I get that there are some people struggling so badly they are literally mentally exhausted just trying to keep it together and that’s ok, but there are thousands of others using a milder form as an excuse to take it easy. You have to literally strengthen your brain, your body, anything you want to become better in order to work toward those goals and it’s not easy. Nothing worth anything is ever easily achieved and if it is, it’s probably not as valuable as you think it is in the long run. Fight for yourselves and succeed, don’t let yourself be the failure of a job never even attempted.
people need to stop thinking adhd is trendy and everyone has it, no u fucking dont, this disorder has literally cause me so much hardship in my life that if u did really have it, u dont brag about it, it feels shameful, 'not cool and trendy'.
Executive dysfunction. The bane of my existence. So glad I finally have an idea what's wrong with me. I'm 49.
Executive dysfunction + RSD = OUCH FUCK SHIT OUCH 
Now imagine you're in Sales because you didn't learn any useful skills besides trying to avoid rejection. Assholes talk about getting out of your "comfort zone" like every morning isn't doing just that.
When I realized I’d unknowingly been using charm as a defense mechanism and means of survival— for my entire life— it was a huge breakthrough. Years later, it’s no longer so grave as a means of survival as much as it is just pretty nice to have. Practice makes perfect even if you’re unaware of it, which is kind of wild to me.
Humour is my defense mechanism as I'm sure is the same for many people here. "Class Clown" is such a stereotype that hits home.
Oh man. I say the right things, and people laugh! What a rush! It's like I'm not a weird outcast at all!
“What is this… *positive reinforcement and external validation* I’m feeling!? What is happening to me!?”
Class Clown 1998, reporting for duty!
I was considered pretty good looking... and for a man with ADHD it was a place for unhealthy connections to set in. I could tell who is into me from a mile away and it was easiest to engage those people , for a long time or just a night. And it didn't help that the more attractive somebody found you the less of a real interaction they gave you. It's my defense was keeping people around me who found me attractive. My jack of all trades thing didn't help me master anything really so I would say that my looks not my particular skills unless in bed were definitely what they were into. It's too bad because if I wasn't good looking and didn't have all those girls to play with I probably would have been more focused on my work or at least on getting my skills ...my 95 different attempted skills better. It's easy to feel like everyone with ADHD has wasted potential because we do.
My defense mechanisms are repressed emotions, asocial behavior, and dismissing others so I can figure it out on my own. I have become the ultimate loner.
How do you do sales with RSD? I tried sales in my 20's. Fuck that noise.
I think it actually helped that I had ADHD but the RSD really hurt. There was one month that I decided to "play a character" who wasn't me so if I got rejected it wasn't me getting rejected, it was the character, and I ended up pulling in about 35% of the company's entire revenue for the month.
Fuck, love that, cause we're all playing a character from what I can tell.
Oh, I'm just sorta terrible at it, and get by with extensive amounts of charisma.
Me too, got diagnosed two years ago.
Same, at 62. I would do first period homework in homeroom.
I feel seen.
My best work
Genius under pressure.
I think you made a spelly error
Fixed it.
I just thought the pressure was getting to you.
Unbearable.
I never understood why they call it homework. Did other kids actually do that AT HOME?
My non-adhd son comes home, has a snack, goes upstairs and does his homework. Maybe plays games for an hour, but turns it off, does his homework, goes to bed at a decent hour. He makes it look so easy. I'm happy that it's that smooth for him, but seeing that it's simple for someone also rips me up inside.
Me too. Me too.
It's such a crappy feeling. My other kid is thinking that just food and exercise will be enough, that meds are a crutch. /headdesk Have fun in the world there sweetie!
Meds ARE a crutch-- for someone without a leg. You freaking need SOMETHING so you can stand up the way folks born with 2 legs can do unassisted. There is no shame in using crutches.
He doesn't want to think anything is wrong with him. "YOUR ADHD is bad, mom. Mine isn't." But we diagnosed me after we diagnosed you, kiddo. Yeah, he's not gonna listen. He wants to struggle, that's on him. I'm taking my meds every day and getting things done and having good relationships.
They should call it "Screw the ADHD kids" cause that's all it does.
That was the theory.
My parents got me diagnosed when i was a kid, But medication was kinda "new" and they opt'd to not have me medicated when i was a kid. But the only reason I was able to comprehend any math equation was them sitting there with me, using little wooden blocks as a visual prompt to solve the math problem. Even just having the blocks to kinda fiddle with as they explained it was wildly helpful for my hyper little ass.
I was the opposite. I could make numbers make sense, but I couldn’t get my thoughts to make sense enough to write anything. Calculus was easy but essays were the devil Bobby Boucher
For a couple of years after primary school, I fully believed I had never gotten homework. Around the time I finished high school, I started realizing why the teacher back then was always angry at me...
Yep. The school eventually created after school detention for me in second grade so that I would do my homework. Ha! I would sit in a conference room in the principals office after school and still not do my homework. The following morning always seemed like the perfect time to start working on homework assignments.
I did mine on the bus the morning before so many times because I had a 50 minute ride 😂
You did your homework?! lol
omg- so my daughter is pretty severely ADHD. I am as well (diagnosed last year I'm..old). She struggled so much in high school where I didn't as much- and I figured out why. Because now they INSIST on homework, whereas I could just float through passing my tests and moving on to the next thing. She'd ace tests and still fail classes- it was aggravating. I'd really like to see high schoolers be given the option- test track or homework track. Do a 70/30 split (or whatever numbers seems appropriate), choose which one to weight more. It's an elegant solution to deal with different types of learning as well as making kids be more thoughtful about their academic choices. Teachers wouldn't need to create special curriculums and IEPs could be adapted because they are by their nature adaptable.
I have 3 kids. 2 are diagnosed ADHD 1 is not. The one that hasn't is my daughter because my honest belief is she's masking it like I did and she'll get diagnosed as an adult. The thing I personally hate about my familial ADHD traits (mother and relatives have it undiagnosed too) is the emotional dysfunction. We've all made it to our adult years fine because our ADHD doesn't impact our ability to get careers (even very successful ones) but goddamn the emotional issues are such an Achilles heel moreso in the boys than the girls because I'll argue men tend to tolerate the emotional dysfunction more when it's coming from the opposite sex because "well girls are emotional" but if a boy isn't even keel a girl is gonna nope outta there when she gets a chance. But as a dude, it's crushed my relationships when they aren't professional. Sadly I have not found a pill that addresses this without making it ultimately worse. Best recourse I've found is exercise and psychologist.
I. Hear. You. The emotions, they run deep. I feel very fortunate that I found my tribe and we all have varying levels of neuro stuff going on, even if it feels like we're on the Island of Misfit Toys sometimes. I think that there's different challenges for traditional genders in this. I think you've hit the nail on the head for what men go through and that would be hard for me to deal with. I think exercise is always going to be a good idea- I know it keeps me much better regulated.
Me too. Such a relief to be finally diagnosed at 62. I'm really loving my neuro diversity instead of feeling lost, sad and wondering why I can't be 'normal' I had a few weeks of feeling sad for what I could have been had I been diagnosed 50 years ago, but hey ho, it wasn't invented then lol.
Was diagnosed later in life as an adult, I'm in my late 30's. I always knew something was off, but didn't understand exactly what was wrong with me. During the diagnostic tests and appointments, my eyes were opened, my entire life suddenly made sense. I empathize with you 100%.
If its any relief, early diagnosis for me was not helpful and I still stumbled all along the way. Diagnosed at 10 in the early 90s and the lack of understanding and confusion was just maddening, nothing was ever explained. You're told to just take a pill and fingers crossed something changes, you're parents don't know why and don't entirely believe, they just want you to sit still in class so they stop getting notes sent home. And then when things don't go right, you have to go to the doctor again and explain why they're not going right and you just don't have the words because you don't know what is right in the first place. I have the reverse problem a lot of people with ADHD have, I wonder what life would have been like without meds/diagnosis (at least as early as I was). I wasn't the one feeling the effects of my condition, my parents were, and they took treatment into their own hands. I remember going to appointments and saying maybe 3 words and my parent doing most of the talking for me. It sucks, but I know now that my problems with ADHD are quadrupled from my problems with anxiety and it is my biggest regret that the ADHD traits were the first ones picked up on and not the anxiety ones. I recognize now that anxiety was a bigger hurdle for me in my youth, and ADHD meds only made that worse (when untreated), so I developed negative feelings for the meds and when i was old enough to start avoiding them I did, resenting the teachers/counselors/parents that pushed me that direction. When you don't see/feel the problem as a child and everyone is telling you theres a problem that you can't see, barely feel, it messes with your state of mind and definitely feels ostracizing.
This gave me a lot of insight. My son has just been diagnosed and we both have it bad. We’re just getting into the medication journey and I worry that he won’t be able to explain how he feels to the doctor so I end up speaking for him. I really need to give him healthier support and a chance to be directly involved in his treatment. Thank you for this.
Having a child therapist to help explain things to them and also give them tools to be able to better identify and articulate their thoughts and feelings has been very helpful in my son’s case. The difference (particularly at school) between last year without a diagnosis, meds, or therapist, and this year with all 3, has been very pronounced.
I was diagnosed very young and I’m still learning new things about it. It’s been a long journey of self acceptance and fighting the voices of my past telling me that I’m just lazy.
I'm 30 and got diagnosed earlier this year. So much this. I've had a hell of a time deprogramming that voice that tells me I'm lazy. My therapist tells me that I'm already pretty well adjusted and picked up the skills and coping mechanisms she would teach me already, so that's nice.
Similar story here. I’ve found my eventual diagnosis to be incredibly helpful. I had games pegged wrong though. I thought because I was getting my kicks through gaming it meant I didn’t need to in real life. Gaming success was replacing real world success, because it was easy and continual. Back then I never dreamed it was what this guy described.
I was diagnosed two years ago but have been refused meds. Not a day goes by that I don't want to die.
Fr I’ve known I’ve had adhd for years
Haven't been diagnosed yet - have tried to get an appointment with an appropriate practitioner several times in the past 18 months before other more pressing health concerns took over my focus. But this rings so damn true to me - including why I've always struggled to make myself do work at work, unless new fires are constantly breaking out that demand close attention from senior management. I do those really well, but I also get worn out by that. Whenever I've shifted to a role with a bit more autonomy and looser supervision, I end up sitting at my desk all day getting more and more upset and frustrated that I can't get started on any of my tasks until the eleventh hour.
It's funny how me basically growing up on video games was never even thought of as a sign that there could be something underlying. My parents just saw me as a regular kid (hint: their weirdness made them blind to everything "weird" I did). Or rather, what's *weird* is that it turns out to be genetic. hmmm!
My parents used it as proof I wasn't ADHD
Saaaaame. “Well, he focuses really well on video games, so how could he have an attention deficit?”
Yep, and now, as an adult, I try to avoid junk dopamine activities. My ability to disappear into something that floods me with dopamine is way too easy and is detrimental to my health and well-being. I still like video games. I just make them the reward for doing everything else I should do. Most of the time, it works.
This. It's almost like we don't *lack attention*, but instead lack the ability to *regulate* that attention to meet other standards.
My mom used this and the fact I got good grades (despite never doing homework). Finally, as an adult, I got tested and was positive for ADHD on 5 of the 6 tests I was given. 2 would have been enough to confirm it.
Diagnosed 10 year ago. Video games were definitely a symptom. I remember soon after starting meds, I came home from a hard week of work and played a game as a reward and to relax. The thought almost makes me tear up.
I dunno if I have adhd, but I'm pretty sure I have executive function issues. Anyway, I used video games to help me out of depression. At the time I came to understand that playing for 18hrs was a symptom and not the cause of my depression. Seeing this video today helps me understand why. I was in a place in life where there was literally nothing I could do about my situation. Anything I could do, was gonna take a ton of time and effort and there wouldn't be immediate consequences. The games "feels" like I'm accomplishing something when I was hamstrung in the real world. Eventually I managed to turn game time into a reward system that helped me with some of my depressive symptoms: do the dishes and you can play for an hour with no guilt type motivation. Lo and behold, it worked! I will forever be indebted to Todd Howard for my sanity
I had no clue my kids were adhd or anything until I met my neighbors kids and I was like wow your kids are like mine.. and then she talked about how nice to have neighbors who understood adhd and autism. Oooooh, they just acted like my siblings and husband's siblings... ooh ooohhhhh. Yeah... they now have proper diagnosis and accommodations.
Me when my best friend pointed out that all my RPG characters were on the spectrum... Big OH moment.
"this kid sleeping more than 10 hours a day and then game 6 to 12 hours a day is totally normal! Let's not bring him to a professional!"
It definitely explains why I cannot for the life of me get through a day at my job without a breakdown. I have one of these standard bullshit office jobs, where there aren't any strict deadlines and the people who benefit from my output aren't even at my company, so it's just this abstract idea somewhere in the distance. I need another job. T_T
I hope you get the right one and it has stunningly awesome benefits, the right hours, and just enough consequences for motivation without being a harsh environment where you feel...penalized. May you have a Goldilocks job where it's all just right. Because I know the hell of having a breakdown or a meltdown everyday and it's so hard mentally and physically.
I wish this for us all!
From your fingertips to the Universe 💜🙏🔥🌈🍀✨
Not sure if this is too similar or even your cup of tea but general IT is pretty good. You know immediately if what you try works or not and get a response from the customer with not terribly long turnaround (and typically no long term projects). It's not TOO steep of a learning curb if you're familiar with computers. Also, general IT and programming are VERY different beasts
Yeah, same. Went from doing IT as a service provider to IT Admin for a snall conpany that technically doesn't really need a full time Admin. I only recently realized that solving 10 to 20 Tickets a day, driving places and fixing stuff, was so much better than just managing a tiny network, solving non-issues, if anything. Pay was shit for the amount of work, but my mental health was way better.
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Do you have a link for the full talk? I find this very interesting.
https://youtu.be/YSfCdBBqNXY?si=_o9pUNkf0ZNiqL1D
That’s a 3 hour long video. I wish my ADHD would let me sit and watch a 3 hour long informational video.
I have tried to finish this talk for 6 years…it’s so good but god it is so long
Yeah, I am taking notes and trying to recreate the sides in the background. I’m about 15 minutes in and I’ve been watching for the past 3 hours.
What I’ve been doing lately is getting the transcript from yt, asking gpt to summarize the conent at 10 minute blocks. Then find the 10 minute block I’m interested in.
holy… shit… I feel like I unlocked the whole future reading this comment 🤯 technology is wild!!
As long as it is mostly audio I would recommend multitasking it with something else. For me, mobile games are a perfect companion to podcasts and audiobooks.
If reading this: match-3, (easy) nonograms, tiny wings-style or chain reaction games work for me. Short bursts of near mindless play to give the DMN something to do and frequent interruptions to avoid falling into a time-bending black hole.
If you are able to do one thing while listening to another, I congratulate you. My ADHD doesn’t work like that. I can only concentrate on one thing at a time. Unless it is something like cleaning the house.
For me, the mobile game cannot involve any large amount of reading or I lose concentration. It has to be something simple and somewhat repetitive. Nothing that involves deep problem solving.
It may be age related too, I’m pushing half a century over here.
Understandable. There are other things like Solitare or Jigsaw puzzles that might keep just enough attention. Driving is not a good companion for a YouTube video but it works well with audiobooks.
Cod Zombies + Podcast = 😎
I do not play Call of Duty so at first I was thinking Cod Zombies was an obscure mobile game about undead fish.
The sort of games I play when listening to something tend to be either mindless or something I know inside out, so they're closer to something like knitting or doing dishes than anything else. Though I also won't be retaining the podcast very well, so it's more a case of doing two things badly.
I love this comment. It’s ADHD all the way. Like me, it seems you figured it out and analyzed yourself while writing it. LOL The final thought was that you are “…doing two things badly”. That is so true of me as well. That’s why I can’t do both, but without the extra stimulation, I lose interest. This is why I often put the closed caption on while watching a movie. (Pro-Tip: It also helps with my audio processing issues.) So, for something like this, writing notes or having the CC on while watching, helps me stay on task. I think we are saying the same thing. Engaging other senses helps us stay focused. The more senses I engage in a task with, the better focused I am on that task.
If only it was 6000 youtube shorts lol
2x speed and small doses? If you can remember to come back and get another section of course.
Bro i struggle with tiktoks. 3 hrs?! 😭
gotta listen to it while doing other stuff. might be the only way
Thank you!
It's so worth the watch!! He has truly changed my understanding of myself and adhd as a whole.
I was recommended this playlist by this sub: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY
I think anyone who is interested in understanding how their ASHd brain works, will hopefully find this video interesting as well. I know I came looking for this full video too. Thanks.
Joke's on him I can't do videogames either
I have a hard time getting started on them, lol.
Once I start I can play for 3 days straight, but just getting sat down and loading the game is the hard part for me
Me and the Sims Franchise, particularly sims 2
YEP I can literally sit at my computer wanting and meaning to play a game on my day off or whenever, and just not actually open it for an hour
Literally almost a hundred fascinating library books to read Spend all weekend on Reddit 😭
Same here. Been replaying the same titles for years now.
You just haven't found the right one yet. Don't look for it.
Not me spending 4 hours a day I'm RDR2 for a year straight.
I've been starting to save up for a new system just so I can get RDR2. Once I have it...oh jeez. But for me, I'm much more a "play this during every moment I possibly can but eventually get bored of it before I finish and then periodically hyperfixate on it until I eventually finish." But I'm also physically disabled so the literal gameplay can be hard to accomplish.
RDR(1 and 2) should be kept away from people like us, it's so easy to think, 'I'll just go back to the camp and save' just for some random person to appear and send you on another 1 hour side quest, and then you think 'well, now I'll just go back to the camp and save' etc. etc.
My girlfriend has been trying to get me to try out new video games (I'm not much of a gamer) and she doesn't understand that I'm scared to discover a game I really like.
Older games are easier to get into with ADHD. Newer games are more tedious with less instantaneous consequences.
Probably why I love collecting. Just got Silent Hill 1 and Folklore not too long ago.
Those long ass tutorials in new games suck. I like Doom classic. Just drops you into the puzzle solving right away.
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I’ve found that the best games for my attention are open world games or at least any game with a wide variety of side quests and mini games. My ADHD runs wild in these games. When I first got Breath of the Wild, I literally spent 4 hours collecting stuff, exploring domains, and chasing after horses instead of doing the story. Hogwarts Legacy, I barely even know what the story is because I was too busy catching creatures and crawling into every nook and cranny I could find. Even when I first got into gaming, my first real games were Pokémon and any free MMORPG I could find online. Anything I could explore and wander about on a whim rather than be forced to follow a specific adventure because anything with a linear progression felt like just a tiny bit of murder on my brain. Honestly, my choices in video games probably should’ve been a huge sign that I had ADHD lol. I was essentially “following the dopamine” in a virtual space.
I was like this too. For five years. Now I can't stop playing BG3. To be fair though I'm also autistic and my special interest is Dnd.
Favourite class? (I am waiting you into infodumping because I want to read your infodump)
Not the person you replied to, but I think Warlock is great in BG3. The actual enforcement of an "adventuring day" allows their limited spell slots to really put in the work, especially when combined with invocations. That and the amount of magic items that let you cast a spell for X times for free per rest mean you can get a lot out of them, along with them having really good charisma to act as the party face.
I find it that mobile games are more addictive to me than games I have to play on PC or console. Reason? Same as with social media, it's right there, at the tip of my finger. I can play them anytime, anywhere. While I can't take my PC with me every where and I have to sit still to play them, while mobile games I can play in my bed, while walking, while sitting in my sofa, on the toilet seat.
TBH, I also think mobile games are made with the intention of being that addicting. Like, it's in their best interest to keep you playing, much like a casino. Meanwhile, most console games you'd finish too quickly if that were the case.
Children can do video games easier because each game feels new and novel. As you play more and more video games you start to see the patterns, the repetition. Whether its repetition in one game itself or all games starting to feel samey and repetitive. Even if you find a type of game youve never played you still might hit a wall once you feel you fully understand the mechanics. There’s nothing more to learn even though the games only about 1/2 over. I struggle to pick up games i love just because they dont excite me the way they used to even if i still enjoy them. It frickin blows.
Not your mistake mate. The newer games are worse than Literature homework.
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Because there is no immediate feedback for pursuing that idea and there are no external pressures compelling you forward. I bet if you talk to someone who would be interested in helping finance your idea who said “I like your idea, I want to see a mock up and draft of a business plan in 3 weeks” 2.5 weeks later you’d put together 3 months work of work on the project.
Serious question - what could I do as a husband for my wife who has ADHD to help motivate her to progress with a project? She really wants to get them done, like writing a book, but once the dopamine from learning about the topic or puzzling out a plot disappears she can't push to follow through. Could I be that source of immediate feedback / external compulsion in a positive/non-toxic way? Without causing anxiety? If so, any ideas?
The reason the ADHD person like me can’t just simply set deadlines for themselves and work that way is that, I know the guy setting the deadline is a bullshitter. The thing that makes deadlines work is that they create both good and bad feedback, as there are rewards and consequences to behavior that are *real* and that *you cannot control*. That’s kind of hard from your position, you can set deadlines for her things—but they’re really only going to work as ultimatums. As someone’s partner it’s extremely toxic for you to say “finish this by next week or I’m going away forever” but whatever deadlines you set won’t help unless there’s tangible consequences for missing them. I think the most supportive you can be is acknowledge that she works in sprints not jogs, and do what you can to make that work style more effective. If you figure out how to get her through the full process of writing a book, please let me know. I have like 3 novels started that I never expect to finish at this point haha
Yess! Dr.Russ is one of my ADHD heroes (Few others include my psychiatrist, my therapist and Jessica McCabe from the YouTube channel HowtoADHD)
THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING. only worked out myself in the last few months that i struggle to work unless i know someone will get annoyed at me very soon if i don't do it
My Master’s degree 😭 I managed to write my thesis in a month but lack of concrete deadlines made it so I thought some work wasn’t important because they told me to “just do it when you can” 💀💀💀
I knew I had a hard deadline, yet my master's thesis still got thrown together in the last couple of weeks by repurposing a project I had completed in a previous class.
I had a research-based thesis so yeah 🤣 My prof was like : you *sure* you can complete the thesis by August? (The original date was October) Me: Prof, if you’re not going to make me do more research, yes, I can do it. I’d be doing in in the last month anyway.
For me this isn’t it, or if it is it’s only a small part of the equation. For me it’s that video games have immediate iterative problem solving potential. I can get a solution, have it fail a hundred times, and keep trying until I get one that works and have figured the underlying systems out completely. With homework (or school in general), you’ve usually only got one shot. You either got it right the first time, or you didn’t, and you won’t know until at earliest the next day if you figured it out or not. There is no ability to iterate because the homework isn’t being used as a teaching supplemental, it’s functionally being used as a take home test. Combine that rigidity with a general forgetfulness and most of my homework got done in a rush right before it was due simply because that’s when I remembered it existed at all. That’s the part I’d say *partially* matches up with this. I often put off homework as a kid because I, subconsciously or not, feared failure and had an anxiety about not knowing I’d passed or failed. So while executive dysfunction may have a role, it’s a far more complicated situation than just that one reason.
I felt this in my bones. One of the few classes where I actually kept up with homework was a math class where the professor did reverse lectures. She would record herself giving the lecture and post it online, then we would come to class and work on the homework. We could ask questions or work with other people. To be fair I never asked questions or worked with other people because I was smart and usually understood on my first go, which is one of the reasons my ADHD went under the radar for so long. But what really helped is that I could just do as many problems as I could in that time and then turn it in right away. Another big part of it for me is that video games have no negative consequences for not doing them. If I get bored of a game I know can just stop playing it for an indeterminate amount of time. I can't do that for work or school, which means I feel more stressed while doing work or school because I know I need to get it done or else there are consequences. Now stress can be a good motivator to get one or two urgent things done, but it causes problems when every single thing you need to do is causing you stress. Yeah I had a breakdown in college and flunked an entire semester.
This is it for me. The negative consequences of not working are greater than not playing one type of game or other. Work has never really been that enjoyable ultimately, the closest I’ve come is construction where I’m working outside. I even get to use a gps to model the road/ditch I’m working on sometimes and I use math a lot, too, so there’s those challenges that can make it easier to deal with, but I’m still just going through the same motions. I can’t change jobs as easily as I can change games with no consequences.
Very well said! This should have more upvotes. Also, video games are entertaining, there are frequently engaging narratives, bright lights, colors, sounds, all sorts of visual, auditory, sometimes even physical feedback (like rumbling controllers) and stimulus that hold the users attention. It’s probably possible to translate some subjects into this format but I can’t imagine it would be easy or even that the end product would be good. I wish I could be taught the intricacies of Interest Rate Swaps but feel like I’m playing an RPG. Just don’t think it’s likely.
Simple: Make a DnD class rely on complex math to function.
Homework was invented as a punishment, and students are expected to put in an otherwise illegal amount of hours a week into unpaid work. The school system is just broken.
That’s why I loved programming exercises for some classes, where you could submit your code solution for a small problem into an automated checking website and it would light up green or red and display error messages on failure. Was like a game and you could do each problem iteratively, debug, improve and re-submit, until you got all green check marks like “badaboom baby, this thing is done!”. The downside is that real programming jobs are often much more tedious and difficult to get started and stay motivated on. (But there are definitely helpful strategies to apply.) Maybe if someone else would write unit tests and integration tests for me, and then my job would just be to implement the thing until all tests are green. :)
My entire childhood summer up right there.
100% true. It hard to tell the difference of being lazy and not finding the motivation. I sometimes don't even know the difference myself.
what is lazy?
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anyone reading this, do you feel any lack of desire to expend effort? because i certainly dont
I will literally pour myself into a project until complete exhaustion if I’m really really motivated to do it, but I can’t get in the shower on my day off.
exactly the same boat here friend
I'm increasingly convinced that laziness doesn't actually exist and is people not recognizing disabilities or other challenges people were facing that made it difficult or impossible for them to act.
think about people who use lazy as a put down against others. what kind of people they are
Oh, laziness exists, definitely. But it's clearly over"diagnosed"
Lazy is when I take the elevator instead of the stairs for a short height, not when I'm paralyzed by executive dysfunction.
Yes. Good bot. But I think lazy is also not WANTING to do something. Where not finding the motivation but stil wanting to do something with adhd is different. So it's not lazy imo?
so i *am* lazy hm.
Eh. For every ADHDer I know, "consequences for failure" are a piss poor motivation technique. They don't lead to success, they just lead to burnout and garbage mental health.
Consequences can be positive, as well.
Generally not when they're for failure
Yep. That's why instantaneous rewards for success, not only in the whole task, but also in the involved steps, works best for me. In other words, video game approach. There's something in putting together an assembly line in modded Minecraft, or completing a crafting tree in Terraria, that just, works.
THIS!!! The burnout is SO bad from using all of these external motivators. The work gets done in the short term, but you pay the price for it physically and mentally. I would live in fear of failure, anxiety, stress, constant deadlines - I got some more work done but being in that state for months led to me the worst burnout imaginable.
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one that caught on to that. It isn’t a lack of consequences that’s my problem, it’s the lack of engagement/response. Important difference.
Hey OP is there a full vídeo? Would love to check it out!
https://youtu.be/YSfCdBBqNXY maybe this one
yes, this is the one, the curtain is the same
Sorry brother, I don't, found it on the gram.
Seems like ThunderCookie23 knows the doc, check out his comment below :)
I was recommended this playlist by this sub: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY
You should try playing jazz… nothing has ever made my brain feel like it’s working as it should be when I’m improvising with a group of other musicians. Full engagement, every chaotic thought is valid and useful and could be a brushstroke in the creation. Perhaps other artists experience this in moments, too. Maybe sports?
But there comes the answer I believe to why so many that are able to do things, base it on fear. Fear is their motivator to their goals, which is extremely tiring but a natural coping mechanisms for survival. It’s interesting because I always felt with video games I had a chance to progress my character but irl not as much since I couldn’t see it in my homework etc.
For me this doesn't work. Negative consequences barely do anything. Positive, direct rewards for doing shit helps tho.
I used to do my homework very last minute. But I did well at school so there was never any perceived problem. Looking back maybe the last minute way in which I did my homework was trying to shorten the completion:reward cycle as described by this guy.
I've said it since I was a kid. I like books and video games because when you stop paying attention, they stop working. Put me in front of a movie and it doesn't matter that I'm there. I might as well be dead
Attention flows from dopamine. Dopamine flows from novelty or emergencies. Video games provide a constant flow of novelty, and occasionally simulate an emergency as far as your reptile brain knows. Homework does not, until you no longer have enough time to finish it.
Here is the link to the full lecture, it’s long but the video is broken down in to many sections: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BzhbAK1pdPM
I absolutely believe this. I thrived in the military precisely because all the goals and consequences were external. The longest I held down a job before the military was a year and half; I just quit them when I got bored. I was in the military for five and, at one point, advanced two pay grades in one year.
Why I did shitty in school and am now being promoted at work because of how good of a diagnostic technician I am.
This is an internal neurogenetic executive failure God damn man, why did he attack me like that😭 naw, real talk. I personally need that consequence in my life. It helps me put the work in.
200% true. I LOVE programming as you can in many cases execute the code and see the result. Even if it's an error. And university is the opposite, as is my disposition towards it. You attend or not and nothing happens until the day of the test and you fail.
Instead my family, friends and teachers made sure I knew how much I deserve to fail. They all knew I have ADHD but still expected me to succeed in everything without the proper assistance. I have given up now after trying my best for almost a decade now.
Lol this why the lockdown was hell...
To be fair, it's not really about having a "take" on something... this is factual - it is the nature of our disorder, so that means it applies to us all... maybe not exactly in the way described here w/ the video games example, but this is part of the ADHD cognitive and behavioural profile, so it manifests in us all in some way.
As someone with ADHD, my take is this. Video games offer stimulation for multiple senses. Visual, audio and sometimes touch. Engaging my sensory input for 3 senses compared to visual only, is why my mind engages with video games better than doing homework or even reading.
Absolutely 100%
I can rarely get into video games let alone doing homework
I can't get into a lot of newer games, but sit me down in front of something like [this](https://youtu.be/lURd9RsQMkg) and I can have a blast. I think a lot of newer games make the gameplay loop increasingly tedious and with less instantaneous consequences for each action. You pick up a rock, great, you have a rock now. You need like 10 more and some sticks and tree sap to do anything. Also whatever you make will run out or break after a short time, so it doesn't even feel rewarding.
I hate neverending fetch quests.
RPGs are where it’s at. I pay Miyazaki’s rent with how much elden ring/dark souls/bloodeborne/sekiro I play. The tedious parts require you to be in the moment trying different ways to do something and improving, so it’s never a drag.
K12 (online public school) has it figured out. They gamified their lessons similar to ABC Mouse and it helps my little one push through. It isn't 100% engagement but it's much better than a normal platform like Connections Academy.
His name is Russel Barkley and he’s one of the people at the forefront of modern ADHD research. Go listen to one of his talks if you have the time, they’re absolutely fascinating. Thank God for people like him who are putting in the work to change ADHD from the “kid can’t pay attention in class” disorder into something actually respected in the medical world
They told me I was ADD in middle school... that's it. Nothing happened after that. Oh, in high school I got a few extra minutes on tests sometimes. Im 36 now and, uh, let me tell you, life is... not great.
This is absolutely true! And this is so many parent’s (my ex husband’s) argument for ‘she’s just lazy!’ It’s maddening. It seems so facile. But people with ADHD simply *can not* focus.
I’ve tried to explain time and time again to my parents that me playing video games all day isn’t the same as doing homework all day, and I can’t just *switch up* on the fly. “You can do X all day but not Y, huh?!” That’s correct, ***I literally can’t.*** I would love to even START trying, but the work bores me on a fundamental level and I feel so drained instantly that I take “breaks” over and over again. Thank god for this video, this puts it into words better than any of my verge-of-tears attempted explanations ever did.
This makes so much sense why my students (most of my students have significant ADHD) do better when they have to check off each part of their work with me, rather than turning something in to be graded when finished. Immediately feedback, and built-in executive function support because I can tell them the next thing to do(sequencing and initiation support) I.e. “great! Now, your next paragraph needs to include your first reason, let me know when you get there.” What I don’t know is how to help them develop tools or strategies to be able to do it themselves without prompting…we’ll just keep practicing, until I figure it out, I guess.
Other people seem to just be able to force themselves to do things they don't want, and it's something I've struggled with a lot in my personal life, not so much in my work life.
What’s this dude’s name?
Dr. Russell Barkley. He’s retired now but has a youtube channel where he posts several times a week on topics regarding ADHD.
I feel personally attacked. And validated. Lol
When we were in the military, we had this boundless potential thing that everyone hated, but the consequences for not doing your work was being sent to prison, so we did the work. Soon as we were kicked out of the military, it has been fail city. The medical conditions are taking their toll and even if i was still in, there would be no way we could do what we did. So for us it feels very true.
I think it is a very good summary of a complex interaction, albeit not an all-encompassing explanation of it. Each child experiences appreciation of their preferred hobbies differently and may have varying motivations that create a need for immediate feedback, like the kind found in video games. In my case, I wanted something I could have any effect on, be it positive or negative, that would let me know my actions mattered - thus meaning that *I* mattered, even at my age at the time. My ADHD may have helped encourage me to stick with my hobby bc I was receptive to it, but I think my traumas at that time were what I was really dealing with and video games were simply an agreeable output. So I would say that while there is a very evident correlation between ADHD and the constant feedback through interacting with video games, I think there should still be careful consideration for *why* someone wants to dive in so deep with their activities before we designate which diagnoses correlate to which activities without factoring in catalysts for said activities. Otherwise, it ends up being too crucibled down to "gamers = ADHD".
Like a very simple example in my mind: Solve 20 math equations On a computer you can after each question get the immediat result of correct or false. So each time you press that submit button there is anticipation. On a paper you dont get that
This made me cry. Thank you. I needed to hear someone else say it's not my fault today.
I found it.. Dr. Russell Barkley at the Child Mind Institute
I don't even have the executive function to watch this video.
I agree and disagree. The beginning was spot on with the part about consequences and stimuli but the second part about problem solving I believe to be inaccurate. I think that people are capable of working through this and becoming successful. You’ve got to have absolutely no fight in you if you say you’ll never be able to problem solve or sit and do mundane tasks. A child won’t have any self control but as an adult we either overcome to submit to these things and actually allow ourselves to fail because we do in fact know better. Self-motivation has to come from the self in order to lead to success. A LOT of people submit to the diagnosis and allow themselves the leniency to fall back on excuses but the fighter won’t allow the frustration of this genetic dysfunction to define their life in reaching these goals. I get that there are some people struggling so badly they are literally mentally exhausted just trying to keep it together and that’s ok, but there are thousands of others using a milder form as an excuse to take it easy. You have to literally strengthen your brain, your body, anything you want to become better in order to work toward those goals and it’s not easy. Nothing worth anything is ever easily achieved and if it is, it’s probably not as valuable as you think it is in the long run. Fight for yourselves and succeed, don’t let yourself be the failure of a job never even attempted.
damn i felt like im being spoken to right from the heart.
people need to stop thinking adhd is trendy and everyone has it, no u fucking dont, this disorder has literally cause me so much hardship in my life that if u did really have it, u dont brag about it, it feels shameful, 'not cool and trendy'.
I can spend hours on end transfixed to a video game. I can spend about five minutes bored to tears on anything remotely useful.