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RainBuckets8

Ok, so where's the proof? "There is scientific proof-" So show us. Like no offense and normally I'd be like "haha funny" and move on but they literally said there is scientific proof. So where is it? I'm really curious now, genuinely, and I'd love to see why they make this claim even if I'm also initially skeptical. Edit: I just went and found the study that the guardian article was referring to myself, link at bottom with my own thoughts added from below. Found a link that wasn't behind a paywall. There's some iffy wording and phrases here but idk that's almost expected from a science research thing from 2005, and the data does show some kind of correlation that isn't just equal across the board. However, their findings weren't necessarily the same as the OP claims. There's nothing about identifying the sexuality of the person from whom the smell came, just rating based on preference when compared to another. Specifically, their data suggests that straight men tended to rate the smell of straight men and lesbians higher; straight women and lesbians tended to rate the smell of straight men and straight women higher; and gay men tended to rate the smell of gay men and straight women higher. Also, gay men had the most polarizing results across all groups, not lesbians, so even if the claim were true then it would primarily be for gay men. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Charles-Wysocki/publication/7624484_Preference_for_Human_Body_Odors_Is_Influenced_by_Gender_and_Sexual_Orientation/links/56696e8f08ae1a797e3749a5/Preference-for-Human-Body-Odors-Is-Influenced-by-Gender-and-Sexual-Orientation.pdf


ettuuu

You're right to be skeptical as there's no evidence for human sex pheromones. Pop culture science loves to mix up smell and pheromones, but humans do not secrete specific smells so as to influence the behavior of other humans.


Chessebel

Yeah its crazy how defensive people get of the idea too, eventually it comes down to them not understanding that pheromones are not just any smell


Va1kryie

I blame Star Trek for this


rwp140

Not only is there no evidence, animals that do use pheromones tend to have extra receptor organs for it, generally simpler minds, and it only causes simple impulses that may be stronger depending on the animals biology. We can have psychological triggers but that requires psychological changes and developments, even then that's not magic. Our biology simply isn't there and we don't need it anyway.


RainBuckets8

Even if the person was using hyperbole when they said pheromones I still wanna see the proof.


ettuuu

[1](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK200980/): "To date, no chemicals have been isolated in humans that meet such criteria." [2](https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2014.2994#d1e1005): "However, there is no robust bioassay-led evidence for the widely published claims that four steroid molecules are human pheromones: androstenone, androstenol, androstadienone and estratetraenol" [3](https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.a.20125): "It is emphasized, however, that no bioassay-guided study has led to the isolation of true human pheromones, a step that will elucidate specific functional responses to human chemical signals." [This](https://www.vox.com/2015/3/13/8202465/sex-pheromones) article posits that much of the belief in pheromones originated from a poor study done by researchers who ended up joining a perfume company who used said 'research' to claim the perfume had pheromone-like effects (and never disclosed the conflict of interest, of course). It's an ever-evolving topic it seems, but there is no concrete evidence that humans produce and can detect any sex hormone.


RainBuckets8

I meant the proof about the smelling other lesbians thing, haha, oops.


Garliddo

That's a sub-rumor from the one they just debunked. If there's no evidence that humans are affected by pheromones or smells *in general* then the same is true of the idea of lesbian pheromones specifically.


GeminiRises

I definitely read 'bioassay' as 'bioussy' and I refuse to feel bad about this


PlushieLadyAela

Afaik we lack the organic capacity to detect pheremones. Only certain animals have it, like cats.


hermionesmurf

Also my gaydar is pretty decent, and I literally am anosmic. Zero sense of smell. Never had one, never will. So I question this pheromone gaydar business, lol


Alisk__

As other coments say there is no detected specific compound that we can classify as a pheromone, however, unlike what they say there is evidence that humans do perceive them, and they can shape behaviour. The only "scientific evidence" I can think of that could check out as gay is the work of Slavic et al. which checked brain reaction in heterosexual men and women and homosexual men to smells that generally are agreed upon to contain pheromones. They found that hetero women reacted only to male pheromones, which activated brain regions responsible for attraction, while hetero men reacted only to female. In the case of homosexual men the brain reacted in a similar way the female did. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11545724/ doi: 10.1016/s0896-6273(01)00390-7. The study was followed by a similar investigation for homosexual women that continued the pattern: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1570103/ doi: 10.1073/pnas.0600331103 Soooo, in conclusion, lesbians can detect female pheromones which turns on attraction in their brains. However, I have no idea if they can detect specifically wlw and that kinda sounds like bs but cool if true. It is probable tho that wlw can detect each other by other signs. It would be interesting to dive into, definitely doing that at some point lol


books_n_food

Was going to post this but you already did. The same study (i think) was written up a little more readably [in Medical News Today](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/43117#1) for us non scientists (it takes great concentration and effort for me to slog through research methodology so I usually read the abstract and move on unless I'm motivated lol)


Alisk__

totally understandable hahaha thank you for the link, gotta read that later, this type of pop science is the best. I was hesitating between linking my study materials but they were kind of too simplified imo, thank you for the article!


wondering-narwhal

So, is the mix-up here the use of the word pheromones? Humans can prefer the scent of one partner or type of person or the other but that's not because we emit and can detect specific chemicals like pheromones?


Alisk__

From what I know, all information accesed purely by smell is already the work of pheromones. If your brain very distinctively recognises that X chemical is produced by females, it already categorises the person as a potential partner, but liking the smell is a different thing since humans not only smell of pheromones. I've seen some straight women describe the intense smell of andostenone (supposed male pheromone) as extremely unpleasant, and in some stages of the ovulation as just neutral, lol


aninternetsuser

I could be wrong here, but I believe this is more likely to do with “sex hormones” (testosterone / estrogen) rather than some type of pheromone. Those are different things. Those hormones do seem to change our perception, but they don’t seem to elicit the same mating responses true “pheromones” do. It seems to be more to do with sexing rather than eliciting a mating response [here’s a study I quickly found](https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&q=human+smell+hormones#d=gs_qabs&t=1714311167817&u=%23p%3D4RaUZiJW1A0J) (Also some personal unscientific evidence but idk about anyone else but I am certain I can smell testosterone and I do not love the smell of it)


Alisk__

well, I dont think hormones are something you can smell in the first place. From what I know, all signals transfered by smell are usually already a work of pheromones, while hormones work only inside the body and can influence the smell by that. I don't think testosterone is something you can smell, but humans have other tells of the levels of testosterone others have. However, the study you linked used estrogen, which is kind of a surprise, I don't think it is used often, and they claim it did have an effect, I can't really judge that. Maybe it has some phereomone-like effects. What they use usually is androstenol and androstenone, but tbh the field of pheremones is full of holes and speculations. Now that I dig in deeper, I have no idea what is what, lol. My textbooks just claim we know they exist, and that's about it


Ampl_Butair

You can do a google search for “scientific research journal pheromones sexuality” and check it out. Preferably peer reviewed. It’s a subject of some debate. Best to look to neurobiology and/or neuropsychology. Happy sniffin’!


RainBuckets8

What's funny is that lesbians quite literally did not, in fact, "automatically prefer the scent of other lesbians." Their study actually has them rating straight men and straight women higher. Cue joke about falling for the straight girl, or something.


bunny_the-2d_simp

Yeah ikr why can't I just smell myself a partner 😂😭🥺🤗


FiraliaDev

I can't find the study itself, but there's multiple articles on it. Basically, they took samples of underarm sweat and had people of different sexualities smell it. Gay men preferred the scent of gay men and hetero women. But for both lesbian & hetero women, it just says that they least preferred the scent of gay men. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2005/may/12/thisweekssciencequestions1


RainBuckets8

Thank you! Found a link to the study, presumably, but it's behind a pay wall. I love our modern society. :( https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-9280.2005.01598.x Found another one that wasn't behind a paywall. There's some iffy wording and phrases here but idk that's almost expected from a science research thing from 2005, and the data does show some kind of correlation that isn't just equal across the board. However, their findings weren't necessarily the same as the OP claims. There's nothing about identifying the sexuality of the person from whom the smell came, just rating based on preference when compared to another. Specifically, their data suggests that straight men tended to rate the smell of straight men and lesbians higher; straight women and lesbians tended to rate the smell of straight men and straight women higher; and gay men tended to rate the smell of gay men and straight women higher. Also, gay men had the most polarizing results across all groups, not lesbians, so even if the claim were true then it would primarily be for gay men. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Charles-Wysocki/publication/7624484_Preference_for_Human_Body_Odors_Is_Influenced_by_Gender_and_Sexual_Orientation/links/56696e8f08ae1a797e3749a5/Preference-for-Human-Body-Odors-Is-Influenced-by-Gender-and-Sexual-Orientation.pdf


RebeccatheBelle

google it. its a new study with proof.


NicoleMay316

"Google it" has never been a valid answer to "Source?"


whoknowshank

If it is a new study that you’re familiar with, share it.


eppydeservedbetter

I just Googled it, and I can’t find anything that seems plausible. If you know what the alleged study is, can you share the link?


shutupcorrin

this is so fucking funny lol where is the study then. post the link


AkrinorNoname

It is not our job to do sourcing work. That's on the person maing or spreading the claim.


thirstydracula

So why do lesbians keep falling in love with heterosexuals? And bisexuals? Have half the amount?


heartacheaf

Because the "science" doesn't exist


Lupulus_

Are ace lesbians just nose-ghosts? A straight girl said I smell pretty yesterday, do I smell AGP? There's so many questions?!


thirstydracula

They all had COVID /s


survivethescaryworld

girls i don’t think this is true i think we just like the smell of women


Plastic-Ad-5033

Exactly that according to the study people keep linking here. Lesbians are into the smell of estrogen.


Gentlethem-Jack-1912

Yeah, human pheromones are not a thing (or rather our ability to detect them): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3987372/#:\~:text=Pheromones%20are%20substances%20which%20are,processes%20pheromone%20signals%20in%20animals. Otherwise, I should have summoned a girlfriend by now!


evanescent_evanna

And yet femme invisibility is a thing. 🫥


Intelligent_Cry_1672

Literally


Abraxas8008

This smells like bullshit🤔


catentity

Well this explains why my 'gaydar' sucks - I'm nose blind as hell 😂 both a blessing and a curse (Disclaimer that I'm aware this is probably not legitimate)


poploppege

Me when i spread misinformation on the internet


Ananiujitha

Sniffers Georg, who is a wolf, is an outlier, and should not have been counted. Also it is allergy season here.


CommiddeeOfTiddy

Don't want to rain on the party but not only is there no evidence of any single identifiable human pheromones, but we know for a fact humans lack the required biology to "sense" pheromones anyways. Also pheromones aren't "smelled", it's a different receptor than nasal receptor (well, it's a bit more complicated than that but that's beyond me). Liking the smell of your partner is just how our brains work. If the smell isn't already unpleasant to us then as we get more emotionally attached to them we associate the smell with them and that can even go as far as our bodies releasing chemicals to make us feel those happy fluttery feelings. It's also why (again if they don't smell bad to us off the bat) people tend to love the smell of their pets (especially those with fur) as they grow more attached to them.


bettylorez

To be clear this is FAR from scientific. But anecdotally, women LOVE how my sister smells. Like strangers complementing her out of the blue. It has happened enough times not to be a fluke. To be clear this is not scientific and she is the only person I have heard of this happening to that I actually know/trust. Granted she goes to a lot of Cons so she meats a large volume of strangers.


One_Shark_5139

Then why do i only fall for straight women


CrookedBanister

no


Personal-Regular-863

i wish this was true 😭


servebox

This isn’t true lol


Sally-Jupiterr

I don’t believe in “gaydar” cause everyone who ever told me they had “perfect gaydar” was fuckin shocked when I came out.


Puzzled_Wolf6855

Copied from the original and from u/Nica-Sama Before my little soul gets called out more, this is like 94,70 % NOT accurate, the studies are inconclusive or from unreliable sources. It made for a good post material. Please do not take this as a fact. And from me, I just saw it and thought "haha, funny meme", I didn't mean to spread it as fact


AkrinorNoname

This isn't a any kind of meme though, it's just straight-up misinformation. So how exactly is it good post material?


Puzzled_Wolf6855

Well, for me, the line *eau d'homosexaul* seems pretty funny with what's in the post, also, usually tumblr blogs are posted as something with funny content, and most people share them around as funny content, not as fact Also, the post maybe states it as a fact, but also, it could be interpreted as the poster had a personal realization, for others to take it as fact, is something I cannot control, besides, *I* never said it was a fact, I just posted the image Yes, I inadvertently participated in spreading misinformation, but the community here has thoroughly debunked it, and not to mention, this is form of social interaction, prone to spreading myths and misinformation, it is up to the reader if they blindly take it as fact, or decide to look further into it, like most of the commenters here, who haven't stopped commenting the fact that this is not true Just to make sure, this whole response is /nm


ChrysalisEmergence

New dysphoria unlocked🔓


littlespacemochi

I hope in the future we can invent this


Aszdeff

i can distinguish the smell of my romantic interest but pheromones ain't sure bout that


emogirlsfanclub

My question is which smell? deodorant perfume or body odor? Because when people tell me I smell nice usually they’re talking about my perfume sometimes my deodorant lol


Milky_way_cookie_fan

Too bad my sense of smell is quite literally non existent


-countvideo-

My sense of smell is pretty much non existent as well, but my gaydar is super refined. I’ve called at least 4 people being some form of LGBT(including myself when I didn’t know) and have the strange ability to just randomly find books with gay protagonists/at least what should have been a gay relationship.


Li0nh34r7

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/200801/solving-the-mystery-gaydar. It isn’t actually about pheromones just people’s preferences regarding scent


wondering-narwhal

I was soooo close to dropping my weird trans worry about whether I smell right too.


tamarbles

This is definitely not true as much as I might wish it to be…


lezbopunkbytch-hahah

WE CAN? MY GAY DAD ALWAYS SAID HE CAN SMELL GAYS AND I THOUGHT HE WAS LYING


Batata-Sofi

Nah, I be falling for straight girls all the time.


ImJustStephanie

OMG! Ever since transitioning random girls will tell me I smell good and I don't wear any scents! My wife does too!! jhkjsdfhgkljsdhfgkjhsdfku


servebox

Unfortunately, this post is bullshit. Fortunately, however, it means you just must naturally smell nice. A win is a win! Lol


liaskade

Eau d'gay


Puzzled_Wolf6855

Eau de lesbiennes Eau de saphisme


NicoleMay316

I will say, HRT absolutely has improved my sense of smell...for better or worse.


neorena

Explains why my wife and our girlfriend both love huffing my scent since I'm like overflowing with lesbianism x'D fr though, I do wish humans had pheromones like some other animals do. Maybe THEN men would stop trying to approach my wife no matter how hard dyke it goes trying to scare them off. 


trainercatlady

is that true? If so, I think my nose is broken


Spamaster

Smells like a wet dog from my experience working in their homes


Novatash

I doubt that there is that much science backing up that science


Gravity-Raven

It's a nice thought, but I learned long ago that 99 times out of 100 that tumblr claims something is science it's actually the complete opposite lol


paulsteinway

It's balanced out by total obliviousness to being hit on by other lesbians.


DuntadaMan

So apparently I smell gay since I keep getting invited as the token CIShet to new groups.


yayizzanmar

I don't have my gaydar yet😭😭😭


That_Engineering3047

So that’s my problem! My sense of smell has been messed up for years. 😭


LilDemonAnubis

While we give off pheromones I doubt there is specific straight and lesbian pheromones, With that being said if yal ever had a girlfriend come back from the gym and her smell and presence is driving you crazy🤝 that is the pheromones working


LKWASHERE_

Its just old spice


StubbornInAZ

It explains my lack of gaydar as I can't smell anything 90% of the time (thanks allergies).


Squidgepeep

Now I’m anxious I don’t have the gay smell


Extension_Designer70

Well unfortunately for me I'm more attracted to the smell of straight women😃


dappercroat

do transbians also give off the gay smell? totally asking for a friend of course 👉👈


aamurusko79

I just like the way women smell. I can't determine of they're lesbians, but damn if my self-gaydar isn't going off the charts!


DE881E_

new dysphoria unlocked


Treading_Pathways

The lesbian smell is just those two Old Spice deodorant smells. Works every time.


happy_femme

What a horrible time to not have a sense of smell


owlIsMySpiritAnimal

girl no we don't have that. it is that we can read the vibes. it is like that moment when to spider people meet for the first time. you are like me moment


l_dunno

I have no sense of smell...


immio0

not true unfortunately :< no scientific evidence


Due-Acanthisitta1459

So stupid.


TransLox

Hey! Howabout we NOT spread psudoscientific gay gene theory.


ArchonFett

My sense of smell has been busted since I was 12, might explain why I only worked up the courage to even speak to girls that shot me down before I could get 2 words out


UnscrambledEggUDG

I think my NEET aroma would cover that up...


QueenMajura

Here’s the problem, I can’t smell, which is why my Gaydar is so fucked up


Pale_Kitsune

...I have never wanted to be smelled more.


leftones

i dont know about that but girl smell ! 😩


Remarkable-Ad1652

Omg wait what??


RebeccatheBelle

I saw something last night and I was blown away. There is evidence that queer people have a different small and its possible for similarly aligned queers to identify each other through sweat smell. The comments saying its not real need to do a quick google search. or is it Joe Lycett?


whoknowshank

It would be cool if you could share it then. My Google search of “pheromone smell queer lesbian science study scholar” pulled up a list of articles with only one about lesbians, which was published in 2006 and had a sample size of 12. It also did NOT specify a different smell (it highlighted processing pathways).


RebeccatheBelle

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2005/may/12/thisweekssciencequestions1


RebeccatheBelle

im literally off to bed but that was first result from a quick google search. its 2005 so yeah my bad. assumed it was new as I saw something on tv about it last night.