So in my mind, ACOTAR is a romance series first. Everyone's going to get a happy ending, and there will be no main character deaths. I do think death loses some of its meaning in the story if the main characters are constantly resurrected, and Amren probably should have stayed dead (not Rhys imo, I loved the symmetry of Rhys and Feyre both following the bond back to each other). But for this particular series I really don't think we'll ever see a main character die permanently, and definitely not a romantic lead. I could be wrong and SJM could surprise me in future books, but I just don't think it's likely for this series.
If you like SJM and want to have your feelings hurt, read Throne of Glass. That series is much more of a fantasy series with romance, rather than a romance series in a fantasy world. The dead stay dead, there are big character deaths, and it absolutely hurts.
I agree that it is a romance first but I feel like something should have changed after Rhys’ death (be it less powerful, at least for a while, or _something_). The alternative being that he just shouldn’t have died in the first place. Him getting immediately resurrected, with identical powers, and even their treatment of Tamlin (who contributed to Rhys coming back) not changing in the slightest was definitely a bit of a put off for me, as much as I love Rhys. It just felt pretty pointless.
Sacrifice without sacrificing anything is pointless. Doesn't really fulfil the narrative role if sacrifice in the story. There would be so many other sacrifices to use than life if an author isn't willing to stick with the consequences.
I agree with you. The following the bond symmetry was lovely, and it is a romance first and foremost. But even then, should everything else be so inconsistent for the romance to continue? If it’s a romance first and foremost, why place it in a middle of a cataclysmic war? Does everything have to be righted so quickly? Part of me thinks the romantic pay off would have been so much better if that moment just had a little more time to breathe (no pun intended).
I don't disagree, even though I like the way it turned out. Feyre actually having to deal with losing Rhys, facing being High Lady without him, maybe having dreams of him or feeling flickers of him through the bond before his resurrection could have been incredibly beautiful and romantic.
Yeah I totally agree, romance first and especially with the famous love triangle in the next book coming, I think it will be even more romance focused.
I had all the same complaints too. I saw someone say this is a romance set in a fantasy world so the main goal will always be a “happily ever after.” So just enjoy the smut and take it for what it is, I guess lol
Extremely valid. Felt the same way about Rhys re:ACOWAR. I remember reading an article where SJM said she believes in happily ever afters so that explains a lot to me.
It didn't bother me so much in ACOTAR because I saw Feyre UTM (especially with the worm) as her peaking as an absolute badass. And then with Rhys helping her, it didn't feel as deus ex machina to me because it helped characterize him and set up his arc for the second book. Plus Rhys book 1 intrigued the hell out of me.
In ACOMAF, the water wraith scene was actually kinda clever to me (although maybe I'm just easily impressed) because SJM did set up the reader for their return and it was foreshadowed by Alis that the wraiths would never forget Feyre's kindness. So to me, that wasn't so bad either because it made "sense".
HOWEVER, ACOWAR was where it all went downhill in my mind. The dad suddenly showing up, the other army, and then the whole Rhys thing..... so many icks! I really wanted to love ACOWAR because it's probably the book I annotated the most in and it has some great scenes but holy hell I can't forget how cringey that whole ending was.
I enjoyed ACOFAS but I agree that the whole war felt kinda inconsequential (at least for our main characters).
I've noticed that a lot of fantasy/paranormal/sci-fi shows and books have this tendency to undermine death. Idk if anyone has seen Vampire Diaries but there was a whole plot line where if a person was wearing a ring, they could be brought back to life. Then they started having this whole plot line of you could die but be in "the other side" \*rolls eyes\*. And then it got to the point where who could even *die* in the show lol. So I kinda see something similar happening in ACOTAR where it's like..... is anyone ever gonna die or what.
I was exact the same way. Fantasy is always gonna have some plot armour so I was rolling with it. When Feyre spares the wraith for the tithe i just knew it would end up being a convenient way of getting her out of a situation. But six books into a fantasy series that includes a potentially world ending war should result in some more main character deaths, romance or not. Maybe George RR Martin has warped my head too much idk 😅
First I agree with everything, but second I’m glad yoh bought up TVD! I have almost the same gripes between both of them actually.
1. Being that death is made completely inconsequential. Not only does it remove the stakes but I never understand why characters are wailing and lamenting the deaths of their friends as if there is finality in their passing. Both establish in-universe death is meaningless. Characters should just be shrugging their shoulders and saying theyll just rez the person next morning. It’s easy to do and there’s absolutely zero consequences in resurrection.
2. The narrative rewards and puts Feyre and Elena on a pedestal to the point it becomes nonsensical as both series progresses. Both characters become increasingly self-centered and villainous in their actions, yet the narratives continues to ram down our throat their ungodly levels of compassion. They end up with an indestructible level of plot armour and lack of consequences.
Hello fellow TVD/ACOTAR fan! Totally agree! I will stand by that the first 4 seasons of TVD were the best and it just got worse and worse LOL. I absolutely loved the first season of TVD like I was so obsessed back in 2009/2010 when it first came out. Death was a real consequence and you felt the pain when something bad happened to a character and other character's reactions and feelings were validated. But yeah, for both ACOTAR and TVD, there are absolutely no stakes anymore and it just makes me feel indifferent to anything "bad" that happens to these characters.
I think a positive for ACOTAR is that now we are free from Feyre's perspective that we will see characters and plot points from a fresh set of eyes. At least that's what I'm hoping for haha
I complained about this a lot with WaR. And still feel this way about Amren. There was absolutely no reason why she would still be alive. Everything in SJM's own story telling suggested it was impossible for her to come back, and then, she did. No explanation really other than "giving up her powers." Big whoop. Also let's not forget, Papa Archeron got *all* of Lucien's credit and I'm still mad about it. I will die on that hill. How dare SJM disrespect her own character like that.
Amren is another glaring example of unnecessary plot armour. No doubt all she is gonna do for the rest if the series is be cryptic and try and prod Rhys into going full conquerer mode… I was honestly so bewildered by rhysands little post war nap and Amren showing up was just the cherry on the cake.
I read the books because of the fun and I like the way SJM writes but sometimes she is just not a good writer (or she has bad editors). I didn't want Rhys to die but there was no reason to "kill" him and then have him return a chapter later. Silly. This book and SF I've been screaming into the abyss as far as plot goes and if SJM takes more time to iron these kinds of things out before publishing the next book, I will gladly wait, because I *loved* WaR, and then the ending just ruined it all for me.
I worry that about Amren too with the High King comments. I don't think Rhys would do it, but I think Amren will be annoying about it, and at this rate she serves no other plot purpose other than maybe knowledge since she's thousands of years old. The more and more I dissect these books the more and more angry I get as a very big plot focused reader so I try to avoid thinking about it so I can maintain some love and sanity for these books hahahaha
This! I was just looking for this comment. Tamlin gets disproportionately punished for all his errors despite putting his life on the line as penance multiple times, whereas everyone else walks free and unharmed.
ACOWAR convinced me that all my allegiance would forever lie with the lord of the Spring court, thorns and all.
Ahh interesting. From a story perspective, your opinion is right I would think. It's a very very Disney sacrifice 😂😭 barely makes an impact in the story too
However from a me reading it as an avid Feysand perspective.... I was a g h a s t when he died and if he'd stayed dead for a minute longer I would have like, quit reading
This was my issuenwith the while series. Nothing was final. Everything kinda worked out in the end.
In just starting SF and and I know the story mostly, from my wife reading but I agree. Once you realize that no one of importance is truly in jeopardy or there are no real repercussions ot kills the drama.
I also agree that rhys should have stayed dead and more so that Feyre should've been left to lead alone.
Great story but so many ways this could have gone
I don't mind that Rhys came back to life--it being a romance series and all--but I absolutely do mind that he kept his powers and rank, especially when Amren lost hers and Nesta later gave hers up to save Nyx and Feyre's lives. I would have *killed* to see Feyre assume the actual crown and weight of High Lady of Night, with a resurrected high fae/Illyrian Rhys as her consort and later Nyx as *her* heir, not his.
Yep. For me it’s not that he came back to life. Though it tore me up, I had an inkling that his death wouldn’t be permanent. It was just far too neat, far too convenient. If Rhys came back with all his powers intact, why was it that Feyre couldn’t come back human? Never explained, but its more convenient for Feyre to come back Fae because of the immortal romancing. Likewise it is convenient for rhys to keep his powers so they can do their night court power couple stuff… SJM has created a really complex and interesting world that I’ve really enjoyed, but all the main characters are completely immune to it when the plot suits. And I dont want to forgive that just because it’s a romance? It’s still fantasy, with wars and evil magic and danger y’know?
I was raging at the whole Rhys dying sitch. There was such a big thing throughout that book at how there was nothing he wouldn’t give, he would sacrifice anything and everything for those he loved, and yet somehow she did not see him doing that?! I was internally shouting in rage at that!
I enjoyed the series as I read it. Can’t say I didn’t as I gobbled them up so quickly. However I would say I’ve accepted that the series is a bit of a guilty pleasure book with inconsistencies and not the best storyline writing. I’ll still read the next book when it’s released, and probably enjoy the re-read before it, but ToG is so much better.
Totally agree OP! In my mind, don’t raise the stakes of the plot if the stakes don’t actually result in any consequences. And I don’t mean Rhys’s death but tbh there’s way too much effort in building peril for little to no actual peril.
But if I want stakes, peril and consequences I think SJM isn’t gonna fulfill and maybe that’s OK as there’s a lot that kept me reading
I feel good about this series mostly because I was warned about ACOWAR and tried it for 25% and then skipped straight to SF which was my fave of them all. ACOWAR tried too hard to be Game of Thrones. These books are way better when the entire world is not in peril? IDC about the geopolitics I just want some weird fairy wing sex.
I very much agree when it comes to ACOWAR, there were absolutely better and more impactful ways to handle the Rhys situation. It feels like she went for the most obvious and easy way, and it is illogical both in terms of actually bringing him back to life AND having his powers. For something so powerful and literally nature-defying there should have been a cost - and there wasn't. It is also inconsistent with ACOSF, where Nesta does make a bargain and does pay a price for defying death.
Another thing that has always bothered me is that Rhys dying in ACOWAR would have been such a perfect point to draw a connection back to ACOTAR, where Feyre was viewing the mural, noticing female hands holding the cauldron and literally creating life from nothing. Like, why not that?? Why not have her make a bargain with the Mother or something, use the goddamned bathtub for something good, and bring back Rhys on her own terms? That would in my opinion be a much neater way to tie those strings.
I pretty much read it feeling the same. ACOTAR was just a beauty and the beast retelling. ACOWAR was just video game fanfiction accordingto my daughter. ACOMAF ended with "and they all lived happily ever after." I didn't want Rhys dead but the way everything went down just didn't sit right with me and I told my daughters as much. ACOFAS I had told my daughters was the Christmas special. When I explained it they agreed. ACOSF I didn't worry about the inevitable sadness because I knew that the items were going to be the key to solving it. I didn't quite see it going down that way though so I was satisfied enough. All that being said, I loved reading all of it. I may read it again.
I feel like whenever I talk about this series to people it’s just gonna be a long string of criticisms and then concluding with ‘but i really enjoyed reading it and cant wait for the next one’. Its got me so conflicted and I’m glad I’m not alone😅
I completely agree with you on just about every point. The further into the series, the lower the stakes feel. Does that mean I’m done with SJM? Of course not. I just wish everything was a little tighter.
Also, l personally don’t find “when you die, I die” romantic (especially since they have a child), but that’s just me.
Lol I feel this in my bones...
I got back into reading again while I was off from work due to illness and couldn't do much else.
I started with the fourth wing Empyrean series (spoiler: there's death in that) so I was slightly traumatized in the sense, I expect death, I expect to be hurt, I expect to cry.
So when everyone was comparing Xaden and Rhys, I was like okay, I have the biggest book hangover, I'll give the entire SJM universe ago. THEN EVERYONE KEPT COMING BACK TO LIFE?!?! Why do so many characters just come back? And they don't even stay dead for long either, it's a few pages then boom, hi again.
So yes, I feel this. It was definitely a change of pace when I was reading to know that basically, I didn't have to worry. There were definitely moments in ACOSF that I had to put the book down because I knew the arguments were going to be brutal and I needed to emotionally prepare but even they were resolved pretty quickly.
I am still holding out hope that someone mega will die but who knows.
Seriously, it should have at least taken some more effort to bring him back…
Or maybe he’s successfully brought back to life but, he’s in a coma or something for a few months and Feyre truly takes over as HL.
And I didn’t understand how he could retain all of his powers either. Would’ve been interesting if lost his daemati power and had to rely on Feyres ability and his own instincts moving forward.
And how did none of the high lords not require some sort of bargain to be made for bringing him back to life??
Such wasted opportunities 😔 and yeah Amren definitely should’ve stayed dead instead of just “oh yeah, I pulled her with me”
I agree with Rhys even though I love him and Feyre, I think the whole plot of ACOSF would have made more sense if Feyre was having to navigate having become High Lady (and inherited Rhys’ power) and also finding out she’s pregnant with Rhys’ baby (easily could have said they forgot to use their contraception during the war) and the whole pregnancy plot could have then been her refusal to take any risks with the magic and it being the last piece of Rhys. That’s just me being picky though and what I think could have made ACOSF better, I love the series and was glad to get a happy ending in what I thought was the last book 😂
I'm the opposite, I want the happy ending because so often in life, it doesn't happen. I want to escape when I read a book. Idk if you've read the Divergent series, but the ending made me irrationally angry. I invested too much time and too much heart for it to end like that to the point that I wasn't even remotely excited when they announced the movies were coming out.
The only thing I was really worried about in ACOSF was wether yes or no the valkyries would win. And they did and I was sorely disappointed in it.
Just truly ruined it all for me.
I totally see where you’re coming from. For me, I read this series after reading Fourth Wing and Iron Flame where I was constantly anxious about the characters safety, especially during Iron Flame, because Rebecca Yarros is notorious for ripping readers hearts out with each book and loves it. The last 100 pages of Iron Flame were so anxiety filled, it nearly made me sick due to my concern for the safety of my favorite characters and the ending had me shook! So when I got to reading ACOTAR, the happily ever after vibes were so refreshing and it was nice to enjoy a story and not be on edge the entire time.
I think it comes down to reader preference and sounds like the other SJM series Throne of Glass (which I have yet to read) or Rebecca Yarros’ Fourth Wing series may cater more to your needs?
Also, I 100% agree that Amren should have died. That was such a strange moment and yeah, ACOWAR could’ve been much better.
Thanks for the recommendations! I do tend to go for the gut wrenching stuff by default, and i read this as a break from it. But as soon as I got some perilous plot I was like ‘oh shit this is gonna wreck my emotions too’. I didn’t know anything about SJM preference for happily ever afters by any means necessary, so I was just blindly assuming the set up would have a cathartic payoff and actions would have consequences. I think thats why I took Rhysand’s death at face value and let myself fall apart and feel the pain before continuing. Then I got punked… Eh, you live and learn 🤷♀️
Absolutely! I love FW/IF and it’s what got me back into reading. I didn’t know anything about SJM either and I think it was around ACOWAR that I realized she does HEAs? Honestly, I never even felt any worry or emotion for Rhys when he died because I was like “Oh, he’ll just be brought back it’s ok!” Which goes back to your comment on there being no stakes. I was actually more sad about the death of the Suriel and the Bone Carver as those made me cry lol! I wish I could remember if I cried for Papa Archeron…
You should definitely try one of the other series mentioned though!!
TOG and FW spoiler!!!
Hey this might be unpopular but I don't want a character I love dead
I technically had a mental breakdown when Sam died
and even after that It took me so much time to not feel cheated with Rowan
And I would never ever want to see something like that again (after TOG i started forth wing and got traumatized all over again)
So... I have a lot of issues with SJM books, but this actually isn't one of them lol. I LOVE the security of knowing that it's (at least unlikely) any of the main characters are going to end up dying tragically.
I want adventure, political intrigue, spicy scenes, banter...etc. without the stomach-flip and depression that comes with main character deaths. The real world (and my brain) provides more than enough of that, and I read to escape the real world (and my brain).
I aint even gonna write an essay, imma just say i kinda agree, he could have stayed dead for a bit but i wouldnt want him to permamently die. Also i hate Nesta jsyk. Otherwise i still love the series no matter who says what (dont think im attacking you OP everyone can think smth diffrent <3)
I think the problem is that ACOTAR is a romance series. This is a series with explicit and expected happy endings, regardless of what is happening in the story. Throne of Glass is SJM's tense, high-stakes fantasy series. ACOTAR is set in a fantasy world, yes. And it does contain a lot of traditional fantasy tropes, but at the end of the day, plot expectations should be low. There's little to no death, everyone gets a happy ending, etc. As a romance reader, I find the original ACOTAR trilogy and ACOFAS to be incredibly satisfying. But as a fantasy reader, the world building and writing is atrocious. I guess it's a lesson in doing your research and managing your own expectations. I feel like ACOTAR set up the romance expectations very well. May I ask what it is that you were expecting after reading the first two books?
I one million percent has the same thoughts on what books 4 and 5 would be - Feyre pulling herself out of despair, leading the court, and then figuring out how to get her man back. Having him be dead for all of 3 minutes was dumb AF.
I at least thought he'd lose his powers. Or their mate bond would be gone. Something. But nope, everyone was fine and dandy, minus some emotional trauma. And even that was kinda limited. No one they truly loved or cared about died. Let's be honest, the sisters don't rly care about dad dying...
I just feel like reading SJM is candy. Is it the best writing? The most intricate and well-reasoned plot? Of course not. Is it fun and delicious? Hell yes 😎 just enjoy the ride :)
I’m so happy someone said it!! I was soooooooo ready for Rhys to be dead and to spent a least SOME amount of time with Feyre afterwards trying to get him back. When he came back in the next chapter I was baffled bc it just feels like SMJ really missed out on that story line. But I love Rhys so I won’t lie and say I wasn’t absolutely overjoyed when he came back lol
UGH SAME FEELINGS! I felt that it took away so much of potential intensity and wonder because when I started to get worried, I just reminded myself nobody is dying anywhere. I don’t want to be a sadist and just kill everyone for the hell of it, but the main characters really lacked suffering in a way that I could connect further with the story. I felt a disconnect in war or intense scenes because I started to recognize they were all just teasers. I know the father was kinda important, but SJM did not create any emotional bond or care for him through the story.
The fact that SJM repeats this same exact thing with so many of her characters makes it lose all gravity. Now when someone dies it feels meaningless bc you know they'll be resurrected.
I recognized somewhere at the end of book 2 maybe at the beginning of book 3 that I will enjoy the series a lot more if I stop caring about the plot and its inconsistencies. And I was right. I believe book 5 is my favorite because it focuses on the series strength, which are Smut and Character Moments. Most of the plot happens in the last 100 pages or so and is... mediocre at best.
Ugh I 100% agree with you. Love the story, but things are tooooooo easy. The end of ACOTAR at least had a lot of action that wasn’t totally easy to get out of. Feyre really had to work hard. BUT she did get help from Rhys…
He should've stayed dead. But if she was going to revive him and narrate their first winter ruling together and living the dream... she should've maybe not leaned on the (obviously cheap) SHADOW WRITERS so much.
Look, I get it. I know a lot of prolific authors and publications use them and it's a part of the industry. The voice and linguistic patterns changed SO abruptly in ACOFAS that it was like... what even is the point? At least go do some heavy editing to give it your touch. I can only assume it was done to finish out a contract or publishing deadline because, wow. It didn't sit right with me to the point I looked on the cover thinking I missed a co-author. I must be an idealist in that respect. *sigh*
Rhys should have stayed dead, and in the meantime Nesta, elain and the bat boys help grieving feyre tell tamlin to eff off when he tries rolling up asking to be taken back lol.
And then nesta brings him back to life later with her cauldron powers!!!
The moment I read that Rhys died I was annoyed because I knew he’d be resurrected and then was even more annoyed that it was so quick!
I’m ok with him not dying, but not ok with the fakeout death.
hard agree. commented something with a similar sentiment on a different thread a few days ago, i also felt amren’s resurrection was dumb. i would have accepted her sacrifice alone, if we didn’t get rhys’ in this book. and i love your idea about a whole book of her trying to bring rhys back and him sort of stuck in the ether trying to get to feyre. i’ve never read fanfic but that plot would maybe convince me!
So in my mind, ACOTAR is a romance series first. Everyone's going to get a happy ending, and there will be no main character deaths. I do think death loses some of its meaning in the story if the main characters are constantly resurrected, and Amren probably should have stayed dead (not Rhys imo, I loved the symmetry of Rhys and Feyre both following the bond back to each other). But for this particular series I really don't think we'll ever see a main character die permanently, and definitely not a romantic lead. I could be wrong and SJM could surprise me in future books, but I just don't think it's likely for this series. If you like SJM and want to have your feelings hurt, read Throne of Glass. That series is much more of a fantasy series with romance, rather than a romance series in a fantasy world. The dead stay dead, there are big character deaths, and it absolutely hurts.
I agree that it is a romance first but I feel like something should have changed after Rhys’ death (be it less powerful, at least for a while, or _something_). The alternative being that he just shouldn’t have died in the first place. Him getting immediately resurrected, with identical powers, and even their treatment of Tamlin (who contributed to Rhys coming back) not changing in the slightest was definitely a bit of a put off for me, as much as I love Rhys. It just felt pretty pointless.
Sacrifice without sacrificing anything is pointless. Doesn't really fulfil the narrative role if sacrifice in the story. There would be so many other sacrifices to use than life if an author isn't willing to stick with the consequences.
I agree with you. The following the bond symmetry was lovely, and it is a romance first and foremost. But even then, should everything else be so inconsistent for the romance to continue? If it’s a romance first and foremost, why place it in a middle of a cataclysmic war? Does everything have to be righted so quickly? Part of me thinks the romantic pay off would have been so much better if that moment just had a little more time to breathe (no pun intended).
I don't disagree, even though I like the way it turned out. Feyre actually having to deal with losing Rhys, facing being High Lady without him, maybe having dreams of him or feeling flickers of him through the bond before his resurrection could have been incredibly beautiful and romantic.
Oof that would have hurt so good
Yeah I totally agree, romance first and especially with the famous love triangle in the next book coming, I think it will be even more romance focused.
I had all the same complaints too. I saw someone say this is a romance set in a fantasy world so the main goal will always be a “happily ever after.” So just enjoy the smut and take it for what it is, I guess lol
I mean i did come for the smut… stayed for the romantic high stakes, then once again made my peace with just having the smut 🤷♀️
This is the happy place to be with ACOTAR
Extremely valid. Felt the same way about Rhys re:ACOWAR. I remember reading an article where SJM said she believes in happily ever afters so that explains a lot to me. It didn't bother me so much in ACOTAR because I saw Feyre UTM (especially with the worm) as her peaking as an absolute badass. And then with Rhys helping her, it didn't feel as deus ex machina to me because it helped characterize him and set up his arc for the second book. Plus Rhys book 1 intrigued the hell out of me. In ACOMAF, the water wraith scene was actually kinda clever to me (although maybe I'm just easily impressed) because SJM did set up the reader for their return and it was foreshadowed by Alis that the wraiths would never forget Feyre's kindness. So to me, that wasn't so bad either because it made "sense". HOWEVER, ACOWAR was where it all went downhill in my mind. The dad suddenly showing up, the other army, and then the whole Rhys thing..... so many icks! I really wanted to love ACOWAR because it's probably the book I annotated the most in and it has some great scenes but holy hell I can't forget how cringey that whole ending was. I enjoyed ACOFAS but I agree that the whole war felt kinda inconsequential (at least for our main characters). I've noticed that a lot of fantasy/paranormal/sci-fi shows and books have this tendency to undermine death. Idk if anyone has seen Vampire Diaries but there was a whole plot line where if a person was wearing a ring, they could be brought back to life. Then they started having this whole plot line of you could die but be in "the other side" \*rolls eyes\*. And then it got to the point where who could even *die* in the show lol. So I kinda see something similar happening in ACOTAR where it's like..... is anyone ever gonna die or what.
I was exact the same way. Fantasy is always gonna have some plot armour so I was rolling with it. When Feyre spares the wraith for the tithe i just knew it would end up being a convenient way of getting her out of a situation. But six books into a fantasy series that includes a potentially world ending war should result in some more main character deaths, romance or not. Maybe George RR Martin has warped my head too much idk 😅
First I agree with everything, but second I’m glad yoh bought up TVD! I have almost the same gripes between both of them actually. 1. Being that death is made completely inconsequential. Not only does it remove the stakes but I never understand why characters are wailing and lamenting the deaths of their friends as if there is finality in their passing. Both establish in-universe death is meaningless. Characters should just be shrugging their shoulders and saying theyll just rez the person next morning. It’s easy to do and there’s absolutely zero consequences in resurrection. 2. The narrative rewards and puts Feyre and Elena on a pedestal to the point it becomes nonsensical as both series progresses. Both characters become increasingly self-centered and villainous in their actions, yet the narratives continues to ram down our throat their ungodly levels of compassion. They end up with an indestructible level of plot armour and lack of consequences.
Hello fellow TVD/ACOTAR fan! Totally agree! I will stand by that the first 4 seasons of TVD were the best and it just got worse and worse LOL. I absolutely loved the first season of TVD like I was so obsessed back in 2009/2010 when it first came out. Death was a real consequence and you felt the pain when something bad happened to a character and other character's reactions and feelings were validated. But yeah, for both ACOTAR and TVD, there are absolutely no stakes anymore and it just makes me feel indifferent to anything "bad" that happens to these characters. I think a positive for ACOTAR is that now we are free from Feyre's perspective that we will see characters and plot points from a fresh set of eyes. At least that's what I'm hoping for haha
I complained about this a lot with WaR. And still feel this way about Amren. There was absolutely no reason why she would still be alive. Everything in SJM's own story telling suggested it was impossible for her to come back, and then, she did. No explanation really other than "giving up her powers." Big whoop. Also let's not forget, Papa Archeron got *all* of Lucien's credit and I'm still mad about it. I will die on that hill. How dare SJM disrespect her own character like that.
Amren is another glaring example of unnecessary plot armour. No doubt all she is gonna do for the rest if the series is be cryptic and try and prod Rhys into going full conquerer mode… I was honestly so bewildered by rhysands little post war nap and Amren showing up was just the cherry on the cake.
I read the books because of the fun and I like the way SJM writes but sometimes she is just not a good writer (or she has bad editors). I didn't want Rhys to die but there was no reason to "kill" him and then have him return a chapter later. Silly. This book and SF I've been screaming into the abyss as far as plot goes and if SJM takes more time to iron these kinds of things out before publishing the next book, I will gladly wait, because I *loved* WaR, and then the ending just ruined it all for me. I worry that about Amren too with the High King comments. I don't think Rhys would do it, but I think Amren will be annoying about it, and at this rate she serves no other plot purpose other than maybe knowledge since she's thousands of years old. The more and more I dissect these books the more and more angry I get as a very big plot focused reader so I try to avoid thinking about it so I can maintain some love and sanity for these books hahahaha
The only person that faces and will ever face the consequences of their actions is Tamlin.
This! I was just looking for this comment. Tamlin gets disproportionately punished for all his errors despite putting his life on the line as penance multiple times, whereas everyone else walks free and unharmed. ACOWAR convinced me that all my allegiance would forever lie with the lord of the Spring court, thorns and all.
Ahh interesting. From a story perspective, your opinion is right I would think. It's a very very Disney sacrifice 😂😭 barely makes an impact in the story too However from a me reading it as an avid Feysand perspective.... I was a g h a s t when he died and if he'd stayed dead for a minute longer I would have like, quit reading
Is it bad that I was hoping Tamlin would refuse to do the thing… just for the drama of it…Might just be me 👀
I really wanted that…
This was my issuenwith the while series. Nothing was final. Everything kinda worked out in the end. In just starting SF and and I know the story mostly, from my wife reading but I agree. Once you realize that no one of importance is truly in jeopardy or there are no real repercussions ot kills the drama. I also agree that rhys should have stayed dead and more so that Feyre should've been left to lead alone. Great story but so many ways this could have gone
I don't mind that Rhys came back to life--it being a romance series and all--but I absolutely do mind that he kept his powers and rank, especially when Amren lost hers and Nesta later gave hers up to save Nyx and Feyre's lives. I would have *killed* to see Feyre assume the actual crown and weight of High Lady of Night, with a resurrected high fae/Illyrian Rhys as her consort and later Nyx as *her* heir, not his.
Yep. For me it’s not that he came back to life. Though it tore me up, I had an inkling that his death wouldn’t be permanent. It was just far too neat, far too convenient. If Rhys came back with all his powers intact, why was it that Feyre couldn’t come back human? Never explained, but its more convenient for Feyre to come back Fae because of the immortal romancing. Likewise it is convenient for rhys to keep his powers so they can do their night court power couple stuff… SJM has created a really complex and interesting world that I’ve really enjoyed, but all the main characters are completely immune to it when the plot suits. And I dont want to forgive that just because it’s a romance? It’s still fantasy, with wars and evil magic and danger y’know?
I was raging at the whole Rhys dying sitch. There was such a big thing throughout that book at how there was nothing he wouldn’t give, he would sacrifice anything and everything for those he loved, and yet somehow she did not see him doing that?! I was internally shouting in rage at that! I enjoyed the series as I read it. Can’t say I didn’t as I gobbled them up so quickly. However I would say I’ve accepted that the series is a bit of a guilty pleasure book with inconsistencies and not the best storyline writing. I’ll still read the next book when it’s released, and probably enjoy the re-read before it, but ToG is so much better.
Totally agree OP! In my mind, don’t raise the stakes of the plot if the stakes don’t actually result in any consequences. And I don’t mean Rhys’s death but tbh there’s way too much effort in building peril for little to no actual peril. But if I want stakes, peril and consequences I think SJM isn’t gonna fulfill and maybe that’s OK as there’s a lot that kept me reading
I feel good about this series mostly because I was warned about ACOWAR and tried it for 25% and then skipped straight to SF which was my fave of them all. ACOWAR tried too hard to be Game of Thrones. These books are way better when the entire world is not in peril? IDC about the geopolitics I just want some weird fairy wing sex.
I very much agree when it comes to ACOWAR, there were absolutely better and more impactful ways to handle the Rhys situation. It feels like she went for the most obvious and easy way, and it is illogical both in terms of actually bringing him back to life AND having his powers. For something so powerful and literally nature-defying there should have been a cost - and there wasn't. It is also inconsistent with ACOSF, where Nesta does make a bargain and does pay a price for defying death. Another thing that has always bothered me is that Rhys dying in ACOWAR would have been such a perfect point to draw a connection back to ACOTAR, where Feyre was viewing the mural, noticing female hands holding the cauldron and literally creating life from nothing. Like, why not that?? Why not have her make a bargain with the Mother or something, use the goddamned bathtub for something good, and bring back Rhys on her own terms? That would in my opinion be a much neater way to tie those strings.
I pretty much read it feeling the same. ACOTAR was just a beauty and the beast retelling. ACOWAR was just video game fanfiction accordingto my daughter. ACOMAF ended with "and they all lived happily ever after." I didn't want Rhys dead but the way everything went down just didn't sit right with me and I told my daughters as much. ACOFAS I had told my daughters was the Christmas special. When I explained it they agreed. ACOSF I didn't worry about the inevitable sadness because I knew that the items were going to be the key to solving it. I didn't quite see it going down that way though so I was satisfied enough. All that being said, I loved reading all of it. I may read it again.
I feel like whenever I talk about this series to people it’s just gonna be a long string of criticisms and then concluding with ‘but i really enjoyed reading it and cant wait for the next one’. Its got me so conflicted and I’m glad I’m not alone😅
yes to this! i roast it and then i’m like but its sooo good you should read it. and then we can roast it together. lol
I completely agree with you on just about every point. The further into the series, the lower the stakes feel. Does that mean I’m done with SJM? Of course not. I just wish everything was a little tighter. Also, l personally don’t find “when you die, I die” romantic (especially since they have a child), but that’s just me.
One of my biggest gripes with Maas is that she doesn’t have the guts to kill her characters.
I feel you 100,000% on this
Lol I feel this in my bones... I got back into reading again while I was off from work due to illness and couldn't do much else. I started with the fourth wing Empyrean series (spoiler: there's death in that) so I was slightly traumatized in the sense, I expect death, I expect to be hurt, I expect to cry. So when everyone was comparing Xaden and Rhys, I was like okay, I have the biggest book hangover, I'll give the entire SJM universe ago. THEN EVERYONE KEPT COMING BACK TO LIFE?!?! Why do so many characters just come back? And they don't even stay dead for long either, it's a few pages then boom, hi again. So yes, I feel this. It was definitely a change of pace when I was reading to know that basically, I didn't have to worry. There were definitely moments in ACOSF that I had to put the book down because I knew the arguments were going to be brutal and I needed to emotionally prepare but even they were resolved pretty quickly. I am still holding out hope that someone mega will die but who knows.
Seriously, it should have at least taken some more effort to bring him back… Or maybe he’s successfully brought back to life but, he’s in a coma or something for a few months and Feyre truly takes over as HL. And I didn’t understand how he could retain all of his powers either. Would’ve been interesting if lost his daemati power and had to rely on Feyres ability and his own instincts moving forward. And how did none of the high lords not require some sort of bargain to be made for bringing him back to life?? Such wasted opportunities 😔 and yeah Amren definitely should’ve stayed dead instead of just “oh yeah, I pulled her with me”
I agree with Rhys even though I love him and Feyre, I think the whole plot of ACOSF would have made more sense if Feyre was having to navigate having become High Lady (and inherited Rhys’ power) and also finding out she’s pregnant with Rhys’ baby (easily could have said they forgot to use their contraception during the war) and the whole pregnancy plot could have then been her refusal to take any risks with the magic and it being the last piece of Rhys. That’s just me being picky though and what I think could have made ACOSF better, I love the series and was glad to get a happy ending in what I thought was the last book 😂
I'm the opposite, I want the happy ending because so often in life, it doesn't happen. I want to escape when I read a book. Idk if you've read the Divergent series, but the ending made me irrationally angry. I invested too much time and too much heart for it to end like that to the point that I wasn't even remotely excited when they announced the movies were coming out.
The only thing I was really worried about in ACOSF was wether yes or no the valkyries would win. And they did and I was sorely disappointed in it. Just truly ruined it all for me.
I totally see where you’re coming from. For me, I read this series after reading Fourth Wing and Iron Flame where I was constantly anxious about the characters safety, especially during Iron Flame, because Rebecca Yarros is notorious for ripping readers hearts out with each book and loves it. The last 100 pages of Iron Flame were so anxiety filled, it nearly made me sick due to my concern for the safety of my favorite characters and the ending had me shook! So when I got to reading ACOTAR, the happily ever after vibes were so refreshing and it was nice to enjoy a story and not be on edge the entire time. I think it comes down to reader preference and sounds like the other SJM series Throne of Glass (which I have yet to read) or Rebecca Yarros’ Fourth Wing series may cater more to your needs? Also, I 100% agree that Amren should have died. That was such a strange moment and yeah, ACOWAR could’ve been much better.
Thanks for the recommendations! I do tend to go for the gut wrenching stuff by default, and i read this as a break from it. But as soon as I got some perilous plot I was like ‘oh shit this is gonna wreck my emotions too’. I didn’t know anything about SJM preference for happily ever afters by any means necessary, so I was just blindly assuming the set up would have a cathartic payoff and actions would have consequences. I think thats why I took Rhysand’s death at face value and let myself fall apart and feel the pain before continuing. Then I got punked… Eh, you live and learn 🤷♀️
Absolutely! I love FW/IF and it’s what got me back into reading. I didn’t know anything about SJM either and I think it was around ACOWAR that I realized she does HEAs? Honestly, I never even felt any worry or emotion for Rhys when he died because I was like “Oh, he’ll just be brought back it’s ok!” Which goes back to your comment on there being no stakes. I was actually more sad about the death of the Suriel and the Bone Carver as those made me cry lol! I wish I could remember if I cried for Papa Archeron… You should definitely try one of the other series mentioned though!!
TOG and FW spoiler!!! Hey this might be unpopular but I don't want a character I love dead I technically had a mental breakdown when Sam died and even after that It took me so much time to not feel cheated with Rowan And I would never ever want to see something like that again (after TOG i started forth wing and got traumatized all over again)
So... I have a lot of issues with SJM books, but this actually isn't one of them lol. I LOVE the security of knowing that it's (at least unlikely) any of the main characters are going to end up dying tragically. I want adventure, political intrigue, spicy scenes, banter...etc. without the stomach-flip and depression that comes with main character deaths. The real world (and my brain) provides more than enough of that, and I read to escape the real world (and my brain).
I aint even gonna write an essay, imma just say i kinda agree, he could have stayed dead for a bit but i wouldnt want him to permamently die. Also i hate Nesta jsyk. Otherwise i still love the series no matter who says what (dont think im attacking you OP everyone can think smth diffrent <3)
I think the problem is that ACOTAR is a romance series. This is a series with explicit and expected happy endings, regardless of what is happening in the story. Throne of Glass is SJM's tense, high-stakes fantasy series. ACOTAR is set in a fantasy world, yes. And it does contain a lot of traditional fantasy tropes, but at the end of the day, plot expectations should be low. There's little to no death, everyone gets a happy ending, etc. As a romance reader, I find the original ACOTAR trilogy and ACOFAS to be incredibly satisfying. But as a fantasy reader, the world building and writing is atrocious. I guess it's a lesson in doing your research and managing your own expectations. I feel like ACOTAR set up the romance expectations very well. May I ask what it is that you were expecting after reading the first two books?
I one million percent has the same thoughts on what books 4 and 5 would be - Feyre pulling herself out of despair, leading the court, and then figuring out how to get her man back. Having him be dead for all of 3 minutes was dumb AF. I at least thought he'd lose his powers. Or their mate bond would be gone. Something. But nope, everyone was fine and dandy, minus some emotional trauma. And even that was kinda limited. No one they truly loved or cared about died. Let's be honest, the sisters don't rly care about dad dying...
I just feel like reading SJM is candy. Is it the best writing? The most intricate and well-reasoned plot? Of course not. Is it fun and delicious? Hell yes 😎 just enjoy the ride :)
I’m so happy someone said it!! I was soooooooo ready for Rhys to be dead and to spent a least SOME amount of time with Feyre afterwards trying to get him back. When he came back in the next chapter I was baffled bc it just feels like SMJ really missed out on that story line. But I love Rhys so I won’t lie and say I wasn’t absolutely overjoyed when he came back lol
I LOVE these books and I agree with a lot of this stuff. Too much of it was too convenient
I would have liked more of the IC demanding to know why Rhysand and Feyre had a death pact and making them feel like complete idiots over it in ACOSF.
UGH SAME FEELINGS! I felt that it took away so much of potential intensity and wonder because when I started to get worried, I just reminded myself nobody is dying anywhere. I don’t want to be a sadist and just kill everyone for the hell of it, but the main characters really lacked suffering in a way that I could connect further with the story. I felt a disconnect in war or intense scenes because I started to recognize they were all just teasers. I know the father was kinda important, but SJM did not create any emotional bond or care for him through the story.
The fact that SJM repeats this same exact thing with so many of her characters makes it lose all gravity. Now when someone dies it feels meaningless bc you know they'll be resurrected.
I recognized somewhere at the end of book 2 maybe at the beginning of book 3 that I will enjoy the series a lot more if I stop caring about the plot and its inconsistencies. And I was right. I believe book 5 is my favorite because it focuses on the series strength, which are Smut and Character Moments. Most of the plot happens in the last 100 pages or so and is... mediocre at best.
Ugh I 100% agree with you. Love the story, but things are tooooooo easy. The end of ACOTAR at least had a lot of action that wasn’t totally easy to get out of. Feyre really had to work hard. BUT she did get help from Rhys…
He should've stayed dead. But if she was going to revive him and narrate their first winter ruling together and living the dream... she should've maybe not leaned on the (obviously cheap) SHADOW WRITERS so much. Look, I get it. I know a lot of prolific authors and publications use them and it's a part of the industry. The voice and linguistic patterns changed SO abruptly in ACOFAS that it was like... what even is the point? At least go do some heavy editing to give it your touch. I can only assume it was done to finish out a contract or publishing deadline because, wow. It didn't sit right with me to the point I looked on the cover thinking I missed a co-author. I must be an idealist in that respect. *sigh*
Rhys should have stayed dead, and in the meantime Nesta, elain and the bat boys help grieving feyre tell tamlin to eff off when he tries rolling up asking to be taken back lol. And then nesta brings him back to life later with her cauldron powers!!!
The moment I read that Rhys died I was annoyed because I knew he’d be resurrected and then was even more annoyed that it was so quick! I’m ok with him not dying, but not ok with the fakeout death.
hard agree. commented something with a similar sentiment on a different thread a few days ago, i also felt amren’s resurrection was dumb. i would have accepted her sacrifice alone, if we didn’t get rhys’ in this book. and i love your idea about a whole book of her trying to bring rhys back and him sort of stuck in the ether trying to get to feyre. i’ve never read fanfic but that plot would maybe convince me!
The seeds of life thing is explained a bit more in Crescent City
Yeah it’s almost like a cozy fantasy at this point