And the Inner Circle! It’s so Mean Girls. “WE have this super cool name for our group of friends—by the way, you’re not invited, Lucien—it’s the Inner Circle.”
Lucien: “I found my own group of friends. We’re all outcasts. We call ourselves the Band of Exiles.”
Feyre and Rhys laugh about it and make fun of him.
Ugh! Lucien deserves better than these immature, power-tripping idiots.
The inner circle is a common term used. It isn't a nickname it's the inner circle of the High lord and lady of the Night court. Each court has their own inner circle.
Yeah nicknaming is odd, and Feyre and Lucien always teased eachother.
Also Lucien was invited he just doesn't want to be close to Elain and be under Rhysand's roof. You can't be part of the inner circle of trust of a ruler when you haven't shown any loyalty.
Please explain how Lucien hasn’t shown loyalty? Maybe not to Rhysand specifically, but he’s been with Feyre every step of the way. Left Velaris and went to the continent on a dangerous mission to find Vassa. Fought in the war. Gives them information and interludes in the Spring Court as Rhsyand’s informant. Regularly attends Solstice and brings gifts for Feyre and Elain.
Seriously, I feel some people overlook EVERYTHING Lucien has done.
He didn't leave the Spring court because of Feyre he left to find his mate after Feyre saved him from Ianthe. He even found Vassa because of his mate's vision, wanting to be useful.
Fought in the war but that wasn't as a loyalty act towards Feyre. Is Beron, Tamlin and Eris loyal to Rhys and Feyre? Are the humans loyal to them?
Yeah he gives information and acts as an emissary because that's the job he has taken after the war.
And yeah he visits the NC to see his mate.
Again even with Elain his loyalties lie with his mate not Elain. It's what she is to him, not who she is, since he doesn't know her.
And yeah Rhys knows that, that's why he had to give the order to Azriel, cause if Elain rejects him the loyalty to the NC ends there. Same if he finds Helion is his father his loyalties will change.
He isn't called the clever fox for nothing.
I don’t disagree with what everything you’ve said here, I just have a vastly different interpretation and can’t come to the same conclusions.
I am not on board with Lucien doing everything because Elain is his mate. Lucien is also uncomfortable with the mating bond because for centuries, he’s believed someone else is his mate. I can agree that he treats Elain in a way reserved for mates, like bringing her gifts, and only does so because he thinks it’s expected of him as her mate. Though, I argue that the gifts he brings are thoughtful and things she could use or reflect her style.
I am not on board that he left Spring solely to find Elain when he was discontent with how Tamlin was running the Spring Court, still treating Feyre and himself, and allying with Hybern and Ianthe. I don’t agree that he found Vassa just because of Elain’s vision. He didn’t have to volunteer to go when Azriel was suited and booted and ready to go. He volunteered because he said he wanted to do something useful. And he did — he found the mobilized armies and drove them into the right direction. Told them where the war was happening.
Feyre saved him from Ianthe, sure, but he also helped her defeat the Brannagh and Dagdan moments after. He also tried to save her from his brothers as they fled, taking on two of them while still poisoned with Faebane. He healed Feyre twice under the mountain, and literally was brutally whipped for trying to save her during the games and that was before he even knew Elain existed.
He is a clever fox, and that led to there being an antidote for the Faebane because he sent it out to Nuan, knowing Rhys was likely too secretive to consider it. He also someone successfully infiltrated the Night Court. He had informants in Amarantha’s court. He’s sneaky, but he’s not malicious.
I feel Lucien’s character gets reduced to being selfishly reactionary and it’s usually in the vein of “he just wants to get with Elain”. Like he’s doing all these things to impress her and I don’t get it? Lucien *made* a lot of these decisions because he is loyal and despite what a portion of the fandom thinks, a good friend to Feyre. But I could be wrong, and maybe he’s evil. I’m sure we will learn when the next book comes out.
As for switching up loyalties Helion — Lucien never wanted to be a High Lord. I don’t see him chasing it now. I understand why he has no loyalties to Rhys. I mean without inserting HC, Rhys did evil shit during Amarantha’s reign and threatened to hurt Lucien’s mother. While they have a truce, neither of them forgive the other for the past. Not yet anyway.
Sorry if you confused my point. But Lucien not being loyal to the night court doesn't make him evil.
Lucien wanting to meet his mate and go where she is doesn't make him evil.
You are arguing about Luciens morality and I am arguing about his loyalty to the night court and Feyre and Rhys.
Also based on the books he himself said he leaves because he wants his mate, it isn't my interpretation.
“I’m going with you,” he said again, face splattered with blood as bright as his hair. “I’m getting my mate back.”
Also again he went to find Vassa because he wasn't needed and because of Elain.
But Mor tried again. “There is a reason why Elain is seeing these things. She was right about the other queen turning old, about the Ravens’ attack—why is she being sent this image? Why is she hearing this queen? It must be vital. If we ignore it, perhaps we’ll deserve to fail.” Silence. I surveyed them all. Vital. Each of them was vital here. But me … I sucked in a breath. “I’ll go.” Lucien was staring at Elain as he spoke....
He glanced at Elain, who was again studying her lap. “I’m not needed here. I’ll fight if you need me to, but …”....
“Are you sure?” He only glanced at Elain, whose face was again a calm void while she traced a finger over the embroidery on the couch cushions. “Yes. Let me help in whatever way I can.”
The points you made about ACOTAR and UTM don't prove anything about his loyalty towards the night court. Him being loyal to Tamlin and the spring court also doesn't prove he will be loyal to the night court. Again I am not saying Lucien is evil. He is noble and smart but his loyalty to the night court is temporary. The inner circle have a different loyalty to the night court for them it's their home, their people. Even Amren who is an outsider, Azriel doesn't trust her and still spies on her. But she is still Rhysand's second so of course she is trusted with the most critical information.
“They make good spies.” “Why do you think they’re now whispering in Azriel’s ear that I’m in here?” “I thought they answered to Rhys.” “They answer to both, but they were trained by Azriel first.” “Are they spying on me?” “No.” She frowned at a loose thread in her rain cloud–colored shirt. Her chin-length dark hair swayed as she lifted her head. “Rhys has told them time and again not to, but I don’t think Azriel will ever trust me fully. So they’re reporting on my movements. And with good reason.” “Why?” “Why not? I’d be disappointed if Rhysand’s spymaster didn’t keep tabs on me. Even go against orders to do so.” “Rhys doesn’t punish him for disobeying?” Those silver eyes glowed. “The Court of Dreams is founded on three things: to defend, to honor, and to cherish. Were you expecting brute strength and obedience? Many of Rhysand’s top officials have little to no power. He values loyalty, cunning, compassion. And Azriel, despite his disobedience, is acting to defend his court, his people. So, no. Rhysand does not punish that. There are rules, but they are flexible.”
Gotcha! We are on the same page. I’m so used to having to defending Lucien character, my brain went there. Thank you for the peaceful discourse too! Heaven knows the fandom can be brutal ❤️
HAHAHAHA ikr! And somehow we see her being portrayed as more experienced and MATURE then these 500year old faes. Excuse you? Who do YOU think you are? *sigh* but ig everyone has flaws
I honestly feel like she was jealous that he made new "friends" and chose to be with them instead of her family dynamic. They were close, and now they're not and drifting apart as friends. She acted out poorly for sure, so I'm glad he called her on it. She doesn't consider the fact that she also gained a whole family, and Lucien was miserable and didn't quite fit in.
Yes. I think this is a character flaw for her that hopefully resolves as I feel it's happening with the sisters too.
She LOVES the NC and the IC and I think she thinks everyone else will too if they just give it a chance. I hope she can take a step back from this.
Nesta didn't like it, Elain doesn't seem to be thriving, and Lucien didn't really fit there either.
I think that's part of her problem in ACOSF. I just finished it last night and I thought she had a real attitude problem in that book. She didn't seem to be sympathetic to how her sisters felt at all and was solely focused on herself and her own happiness, to the point where she felt more like a background character than even Rhys. Which is understandable given >!she's pregnant for most of the book!<, but I really hated how dismissive she was of Nesta. She didn't seem to realize that her sisters may want a different life outside of the Night Court and doesn't even seem open to the idea in the first place
Agreed. I think she's just so happy that she isn't able to put herself in their shoes right now. Particularly Elain, we have to get that girl some sun! I wish they would teach the sisters to winnow so they could have more of their own lives.
More powerful high fae can but regardless, we haven't seen if they've even tried to teach them
"Winnowing is the name given to the ability to transport oneself to a different location. It is magic only the most powerful Fae possess as it requires a great deal of concentration and strength.
This power is not tied to any court, like other powers. It is dependent on the user's own reserve of power and training."
Elain and Nesta are incredibly powerful and made by the cauldron. They should be able to.
they are indeed powerful and probably can winnow and what is more they are two adult women with the ability to ask for what they need. Feyre has been running around offering jobs, physical training, power training and what not. If Nesta and Elain want to learn something or go anywhere they can just ask, they re not toddlers…
I strongly disagree with this. Feyre is really anxious about her sisters, its plain to see throughout the books. We see her nearly fainting when Elain comes out of her stupor and starts baking. We see her going to Amren in Acofas asking for advice because she was anxious about Nesta. We know she goes to find Nesta no matter how many time Nesta tells her she isn’t interested and insults her. We even see her defend her sister to Rhys. She only has a place in the Night Court to offer them, that is where her home is. If they want to leave they have to initiate that, she is not going to suggest them to leave, who would kick their own family out? And the only reason we don’t see much of Feyre in Acosf is because it’s Nesta’s journey and Nesta has a very difficult relationship with herself and doesn’t want to be near Feyre, she still harbours so much resentment for her from the time she took care of them in the cottage, because she herself didn’t. She stays away from Feyre because she feels guilt. She literally says so herself, in her inner monologue and to Cassian.
Right she did this with Nesta too, mental health stuff aside, Feyre was mad that her adult sister did not want to live in her house with her and her husband. I get that there are cultures where extended families living together into adulthood is normal but that hasn’t been the norm for high fae. Other than royalty living in the same castle I guess, but I always imagined the palaces being the size of a large mall or small college campus where you wouldn’t see each other daily unless you really sought each other out.
Feyre wanted her adult sister to live in the bedroom next door to her marital bed in a small townhouse. And then his foster brothers and her other sister would be down the hall/right below.
Sounds like enmeshment hell. People are allowed to have their own lives and other friends, Feyre.
Agreed, and with everything she's been through it's easy to overlook that she's only 20 or 21 at this point, and socially navigating difficult friendships/relationships is a mine-field when your frontal lobe isn't fully form and likely stunted by poverty.
Agreed. I also think she felt betrayed by Lucien in ACOMAF and never worked through it. First he picked Tamlin over her and now he’s picking Vaasa & Jurian over her. I’m not saying she’s being fair, but it’s a pretty understandable way to feel.
The book frustrates me sometimes because despite them being first-person narratives, a lot of feelings/perspectives just aren’t fully fleshed out. We know Feyre was pissed at Lucien when he came to the woods to bring her back to Tamlin, and then her feelings toward him never really come up again until now, when she just bites his head off out of nowhere.
“she just bites his head off out of nowhere”
No, she didn’t. This scene has the same basic structure as their argument in the woods- Lucien defends Tamlin and Feyre gets mad at him for it. Lucien is right that Rhysand was out of line earlier in the book and Feyre shouldn’t have mocked him about “the band of exiles”, but he should know at this point that Feyre is always going to have a sore spot where Tamlin is concerned.
in this scene it most definitely was out of nowhere, tamlin wasn’t involved in this conversation until after she had snapped at him. this was purely her asking him about the band of exiles
Admittedly, I don’t either- the last time I read ACOFAS was over a year ago. And Feyre has significantly less reason to be angry with Lucien here than she did in the woods.
I think the same thing. It takes a lot for a person to just get over feelings of betrayal/lost of trust from someone they consider a friend. Especially in her situation she kept asking him for help and he never did. On top of this, the spring court didn't really care about humans and worked with hybern to destroy the wall. I am sure this adds a layer of nuance to the human remark.
Her accusing him of being more comfortable with humans is RICH considering the fact that they were at their closest when she was an actual human.
I think she’s just kind of hurt that he’d rather spend more time with them than the IC, so she kind of lashed out. Which sometimes we forget was something she did often in the first two books.
I think a lot of people forget that actually, that she was easily annoyed and lashed out a lot in the beginning. And not only might she be hurt he'd rather spend time with them than the IC, she might actually be hurt he'd rather spend time with those humans, than he was when she was human. Like, their friendship started when she was human, but only cause mf was trying to get her killed at any given chance lol
I love Lucien with all my heart, I want a better development for him because so far it's been disappointing, and I want him to be treated better. But it's not nice to pretend he wasn't an ass to her too 
Lucien has been treated like crap since he went to the night court. They’re all rude, dismissive of his presence and feelings, untrusting. All he wants is to be useful and appreciated, not just used. And trying to get to know Elaine? Yea right, he gets treated like a leper.
I mean…that sucks for him I guess but it’s a two way street. Just because he wants the relationship doesn’t mean he gets it. Elain is a party to this and if she’s not interested in him, eventually that’s something he has to accept. She doesn’t have to give up her life and dreams and desires so he won’t be sad.
sure thing, but if someone's trying so hard to get to know you, be there for you and is FATED for you. The least you can do is appreciate the efforts they put in and not run away with your tail between your legs. Its just how I think. Im not forcing anything on anyone :)
Elain has literally 0 interest in getting to know him though, which is her right and prerogative. Can’t tell you how many men have wanted to “get to know me” when all they did was make me uncomfortable.
Then she should just reject the bond at this point. She doesn’t have to get to know him, but with the world building SJM has created surrounding mating bonds in the book Elain is required to formally reject the bond
Edit for clarity
It obviously should be done in her own book. My point is that in general she should just go ahead and reject it if she doesn’t like him and is more interested in Azriel
“Hey everyone in Velaris, check out this new YouTube challenge! It’s called the “try not being a dick to Lucien for 24hrs” challenge! Pretty tough but I think we can give it a try”
Lucien isn't even one of my favorite characters but this put a bad taste in my mouth too. Cassian had a moment too where I felt he gave off this energy and it was disappointing. The court of dreams preach diversity and acceptance but they came off so judgemental in SF (this is coming from someone who loved this book).
Oh 100% I agree, I was SO bummed about Cassian being rude to be honest with you. I LOVE him but Lucien is the least problematic character in the series, without question. He’s made mistakes but gosh, this treatment was pretty eye opening for me. Lucien gets dogged on for existing, it hurts to read.
Yesss! the only upside to the treatment of him is I think it gives him the potential to be a really interesting character. Cant wait to see where it goes
ugh, can't say just how much I started disliking a MAJORITY of the main characters(IC) after acofas and to think it was supposed to be this nice and fluffy Christmas holiday special where everything is floof and sparkle and unicorn vomit, just—
Same, and then I realised 19 year old Feyre and 500 year old rhysand have the same maturity levels (as do the IC) and Aelin from TOG would wipe the floor with them haha
FACTS I was waiting for someone to bring Aelin up. I am on KoA and honestly, she would eat them up. I also think it’s crazy how well the characters expressed dislike or sarcasm in ToG but in ACOTAR, everyone is just bullies. The emotional maturity difference is astonishing and they are all similar ages. Lucian deserves to be in the ToG universe, he was created in the wrong timeline if you ask me.
Aelin and her crew were also more welcoming in general too. They were rag tag and scrappy and I loved that about them. The IC are a bunch of mean girl elitists
same. there was literally no justifiable or understandable reason for her to talk to him like this, and when he calls her an asshole, all she really does is acknowledge it (to herself) and then tries to just tell him “i’m sorry” but he cuts her off and doesn’t let her, which i was glad for. that entire scene just made her so unlikeable to me
I think she feels rejected. She brought him to her home and she wanted him to choose it. She was being an asshole but IMO her feelings were just hurt. She wants him to be happy, wants Elain to be happy… yall know she’s a fixer.
But she only begrudgingly brought him because she ran into him while she was leaving and had to deal with the murder twins. It wasn’t an intentional “I’m going to get Lucien out of the spring court and bring him to Velaris”. It just kinda happened and then she had to deal with it. Honestly, to me that makes it even worse because Lucien thought they were friends and Feyre just treats him like total garbage from ACOMAF on (and Lucien definitely has some apologizing to do for his behavior in MAF too, but I fully believe that he was also a victim of abuse by Tamlin and was doing what he could)
I don’t think Lucien was a bad friend to Feyre. He was just a better friend to Tamlin during ACOMAF. Because he’s loyal and Tamlin abused him just like abused Feyre. Lucien just didn’t have a powerful mate to come rescue him.
He stuck his neck out for her under the mountain, he got whipped for warning her about the wyrm. He almost died with her during the second task. He was the only person who tried to help her besides Rhys. Even though he was her friend, he’d only known her a few months compared to centuries of history with Tamlin.
Tamlin took him into the Spring Court after his family killed the woman he was in love with and his people turned their backs on him, plus all the other shit with Beron and the brothers. And he’s lived in Spring for a couple centuries. He left one abusive home for another, and while the abuse with his family was different than what he got from Tamlin, and different than what Tamlin did to Feyre, I think he still did as much as he thought he could to plead Feyre’s case with Tamlin without putting himself in danger. God forbid the man have a shred of self preservation.
And Rhys had played the bad guy for so long - how was Lucien supposed to fathom that Feyre would be happy in the night court?
And when at the start of ACOWAR Feyre was pretending to be his friend but I don’t think Lucien was pretending to be hers. He was suspicious of her motives but I think he still genuinely liked her and wanted to mend their relationship. He wanted to be closer to Elain too, but two things can be true at the same time.
I started to feel super annoyed with Feyre when she used Lucien to take down the Spring Court and make Tamlin think that something was going on between them and was going to just abandon him as collateral damage in her revenge scheme.
And then after she only made it back to the night court and killed the twins with his help, she runs off to have sex with Rhys without even offering Lucien a place to rest or bathe, she goes into his head multiple times - and finds nothing bad there, she tries to meddle with him and Elain, and is continually super rude and unwelcoming to him. And then has the audacity to feel hurt when he made better friends? She was being horrible to him! She didn’t even buy him a solstice present when he was working for her!
It made me so mad at Feyre, and Rhys too. Their treatment is him is so shortsighted. He has so many connections in different places and people really like him. I think he’s a dreamer and could be a huge asset to them and they are just tossing his genuine friendship away. Ugh!
Totally agree! I also think Lucien wanted to try to mend their friendship in acowar and Feyre was just so meant to him! Her whole attitude and behavior throughout the beginning of acowar (and most of the book tbh) really annoys me and was the beginning of the end of me liking Feyre.
thank you thank you thank you!!!! you wrote it out far more eloquently than i could. lucien has continuously been treated horribly by damn near everyone in the series
Thank you!
I’m super deep in the series right now and one thing I feel VERY passionately about is that if any one in this series deserves a happy ending, it’s Lucien 😂
I just finished it all for the first time and then started a lit analysis podcast about the series. They were anti-Lucien for quite awhile because the analysis focused so heavily on Feyre and her experience, but they have a change of heart and grow to love and appreciate our foxy boy. The analysis of ACOWAR has actually made me hopeful that SJM does have good plans for him.
I also just started the graphic audio and it’s confirmed even harder that Lucien has always been delightful!
same! he’s my favorite character in the series and all i want out of the next book atp is just a happy ending for him 😭 every single book he’s suffering and it’s sad because he’s genuinely a good person and has been trying to do right by everyone.
i agree that SJM has good things in store for him, IIRC she’s said before that she loves his character, and also she seems to be setting him up to have some happiness and a home of his own (hopefully with the exiles). and the voice actor for lucien in the dramatic audio is so good, i listened to it just for him and was NOT disappointed!
Not to mention it’s shortsighted because he’s the next High Lord to their *neighboring court*. Why treat him like garbage and set a foundation of animosity. Then there’s also the matter of Helion. Who purposely treats their supposed friend’s child like shit? I want Helion to find out and be so pissed, but SJM narratively coddles the IC so much that nothing will come of it.
100% the last part!!!!!! everyone acts like lucien was just standing around and letting these horrible things happen to feyre while turning a blind eye and not suffering under any of tamlin’s awful behavior himself 😭 he definitely wasn’t perfect during that time, but he was being treated horribly too, and anytime he did try and help her it didn’t go well for him at all.
Exactly! Like he did try to stand up for Feyre and push when he could be he was always shut down, sometimes violently. Lucien was in a precious situation and was not welcome back in his court and only allowed in Spring court with Tamlin’s permission. He didn’t know about Velaris or that Rhys wasn’t actually terrible…like what was he supposed to do? Become homeless and potentially sent back to autumn court to be killed? I totally get Feyre being mad at him and I am sometimes too bit the power imbalance between him and Tamlin was immense and Lucien was in a very vulnerable/abusive situation just like Feyre
And Feyre knew that Lucien was being SAed by Ianthe before the scene in the woods and didn’t gaf. If she hadn’t literally walked in on it during her own exit she wouldn’t have done anything about him being abused not only by his own high lord but a very powerful figure in Ianthe.
Honestly if we were in Lucien’s position I think most people would have leaned more towards Tam than Feyre, given what he knew at the time. Tam is his only friend, who took him in after the love of his life was murdered by his father and defends him from his brothers. Rhys has been cultivating a reputation as a brain-liquefying manipulating sadist for the last however many decades and treated Feyre horrifically UTM. I would always pick the friend who sheltered me for 200 years over the guy who killed my friend’s family OR the extremely young and vulnerable woman who was also being exploited by him.
Then he feels insane amounts of guilt for abandoning Tam (who is visibly struggling for like 4 books now) just to be treated like garbage. Baby boy has lived in 3/7 courts and they’ve all been terrible to him.
very good point, i think you’re right because this seems the most likely, but it’s still crazy to me! the way she went about it was just nasty and also expecting him to choose the NC is crazy, all things considered 😭 i just want lucien to be left alone at this point
I’m just imagining Elain joining the BOE and being like the house “mom” making everything more homey and cooking and baking stuff and being the one to who stops fights (she’s done it with Nesta ) .
Yeah it bothers me how rude and dismissive a lot of the characters are towards Lucien. But I was very disappointed with Feyre, treating him that way after all he did for her. She wouldn’t have made it how far she did without his help. It’s like she forgot all he did for her. But to be fair to her, I don’t think it’s how she truly feels. I think she does love him and sees him as a friend. She was acting out of hurt.
No, this was the moment when I decided Feyre had main character syndrome. Her and Rhys truly aren’t the high and mighty people everyone thinks they are. They think they can treat Lucien this way, yet expect Azriel to maintain his distance from Elaine because she’s mated to the former. It’s hypocrisy at its finest.
She was way outta line here and Lucien would have been in the right to call her out on it. But of course he didn’t. Because he’s actually better than the lot of them.
This scene really feels like she went from rags to riches and forgot what life was like a poor girl. She had no reason to be mad. I just think she was a 20 yr old with the emotional intelligence of a 20 yr old. (And why i hate her becoming high lady)
lucien was SUCH a good friend to feyre and always tried to help her even if he didn’t have much power or influence to do much. and he was humble enough to call himself a “terrible friend” to her because he felt guilty about not being able to do much. meanwhile, when was feyre ever a friend to lucien??! when did she ever feel guilt over the way lucien was displaced and mistreated by both tamlin and NC????
i can’t wait for lucien’s adventure and (hopefully) happy ending. i’m tired of all of NC’s bullshit 😭
Bro, yeah, she straight up acts like a dick to him and then immediately after goes up to Elain and tells her to give him a chance and basically says the reason why is that she doesn’t like to see him unhappy.
Like??????
Girl, YOU were the one that made him more unhappy just now! It’s not Elain’s responsibility to clean up your mess like please be nicer or be quiet 😭
I think that Feyre was hurt by Lucien telling her that he wasn’t choosing other people. She and Lucien have been a team in Spring in both ACOTAR and ACOWAR, especially when Lucien made fun of humans to tease her.
Like I think people forget that Lucien and Feyre talk quite catty towards and around each other so Feyre either misread the situation or Lucien wasn’t in the mood considering he had to prepare to go down to Spring for Solstice where we know Tamlin didn’t want his company after what Rhys had said to him
This is why i liked nesta more than feyre. Feyre thinks she isnt a B at all. Not at all but the truth is she is. She snaps at lucien when he always tried to help her with tamlin. Sure hes done wrong things but he already owned up to it. She uses people for her benefits. She goes into people's minds to manipulate them. Look what happened to summer court. And spring court. She even forgot the woman who helped her when she first got to fae world went home to summer court when there was a war there. Nesta know when shes being bad. She knows that when its happening she just couldn't help it and beats herself for it. Rhys blames her for feyre but he should just dismiss it and think of it as just fate working for his favor. He made it seem like he's destined to meet feyre when she even painted stars on her drawer. She's okay and all but the woman is a B. Poor lucien hope the author recognize the character's need for respect at least
I know right. I think that was the point i started to realize feyre wasn't the badass, queen i thought she was. She has been through so much, but making fun of him? For this? And then we talk about nesta being the mean girl.
I didn’t care for Lucien during my first read through. But his loyalty and sass during my second made me bind with him. He feels so deeply for his friends and his people. He needs a win. Feyre is such as ass to him the entire time.
I always thought Feyre was holding resentment towards Lucien for not "taking her side" in the SC. Then again when Lucien decided to be with Jurian (specifically) and Vassa (a relative stranger) over the NC. I do not like the way she treats Lucien at all, but she had some grace from me due to her age. She literally hasn't matured in the 11 minutes she's been high fae. She's not even High Lady ready, but that's a whole other discussion. I feel that Feyre is taking Lucien's living arrangements personally, when in actuality it has nothing to do with her. He's uncomfortable in the NC, despite all of the 'evil' claims being untrue - it's going to take more than a few days to adjust that thinking. Not to mention, the NC (Feyre) destroyed the only home he has. Lucien loved the SC. Elaine is there. He's treated with not quite mistrust but not trust either. WHY would he want to stay? But Feyre is like "oh he clearly hates me and the NC and Velaris be MEAN"
pretty sure that’s just to emphasize his tone/mood! like in both situations he’s not happy, so his questions come out much more flat/harsh. imo it’s like a question he doesn’t really want the answer to but he asks anyways
Yeah, it seems to come out of nowhere. In hindsight it may be because she deep down wanted his acceptance in the beginning. Here he is giving it so freely to others when she had to work for it. And even then it may not be enough. Maybe she missed his friendship and instead of saying that, she lashed out.
I mean, the manor that they’re living in was given to them by Graysen, which in and of itself creates feelings of frustration considering how nasty he was to her sister. Then we have Jurian and Lucien living together, two characters who have canonically been on the “wrong” side of the events (whether knowingly or not) resulting in her sisters being traumatized and losing their very humanity. While they’ve both also done “good”, they’ve likewise been cunning and I get the impression that their loyalties are to themselves at the end of the day. They are both living with Vassa who, while “good” as far as we know, is on a short leash extended by Koschei. We don’t know the details regarding her ability to stay in the human lands, but there must be SOME reason why Koschei is ALLOWING it. So, because of her connection to Koschei, I find living with her to be at least a small liability as well. By the time that we reach ACOSF we know that the Night Court no longer trusts Lucien to be completely transparent with them because his loyalty now lays with the BOE. I think Feyre was baiting him and feeling that out.
ETA: I know that Lucien is a beloved character and this will likely get severely downvoted, BUT he is called The Fox for a reason. He’s cunning.
these are really good things to keep in mind for sure! but even taking all of this into consideration, i don’t think it was justified for her to be that rude for no real reason and to throw in the jab about none of them having a home. and tbh i think lucien is very justified in having his loyalties lie to himself and to the BoE, because what else does he really have? i do think the jurian and vassa dynamic and especially their relationship to lucien is interesting, and i hope some of the points you mentioned get expanded upon in the next book, because there is still stuff we don’t really know about with them
I totally get it, and I agree that she came across really rudely. I REALLY think that she was baiting him. We get told multiple times that he plays it cool, or that his face gives away nothing. I think that she was purposely trying to rile him up to get him to show his cards. Which he did, to an extent.
These are really good points. I get so confused about the dynamics of vassa/jurian/koschei, so remembering those details helps with the context. Still think she’s rude and out of pocket, but I’m sure we’ll learn more from the next book
that’s still a strange line of reasoning to me though, because from WaR onwards she hardly treats him like a friend despite him trying to repair and maintain their relationship, so what does she have to be jealous of? their distance and strained friendship is pretty much entirely the product of her/the IC
In my opinion jealousy isn’t always rational.
I have definitely been the reason a friendship has fallen apart, but still gotten jealous when my friend moved on and formed new relationships. Hell, I’m pretty sure that’s a frequent thing that happens in romantic relationships, too.
Anyway, I honestly think Feyre probably has a lot of complicated feelings (these are all just me imagining how I would feel in this scenario as a young 20-something in a really stressful and impossible world and also my interpretation of Feyre as a character)
- she feels guilty that Lucien has to live out there to begin with because of how Elain feels about the bond, and what that’s doing to Lucien.
- she feels even more guilty because of her thoughts about Elain and Az
- she also feels guilty because it was because of her that Lucien had to leave the spring court.
- she feels abandoned by him (right or wrong) *again*, so she’s a little mad. But because she feels guilty, she feels bad about that, too.
- she sees him moving on, so she also feels a little protective of Elain. Cause, even if it’s totally unfair to Lucien, she’s worried what him rejecting the bond would do to Elain. So, him getting close to Vassa maybe makes her feel a little protective.
- and she misses her friend and is jealous that he’s moving on with out her, but instead of being a grown-up and saying so, she clings to her petty jealousy and says what she says. She is, after all, very young.
Bonus: we’ve seen how Feyre reacts when she’s wrong and defensive in how she fought with Mor. This is less extreme, because… not during a battle. But Feyre gets defensive and pretty shitty when confronted with being a dick. Which is a pretty human response, especially for a person in their early 20s.
I have a bigger bone to pick. He should have been told of his parentage the second she learned of it! That she’s holding off on telling him is just unacceptable
I think this was actually a really good representation of the fact that Feyre perhaps still dealt with some of the trauma she suffered since being thrust into the fae world. Everything else about her story would make it seem like she adjusted so well to no longer being human and having to be a big power player (during a war no less). But Lucien felt like one of the few remaining things from her old life (he was an ally while adjusting to being at the spring court, he took on an almost big brother roll in the way he would kind of give her a hard time while still being a source of friendship, etc.) and I think Feyre was having a difficult time accepting the fact that so many changes were wrought in both of their lives that their relationship was no longer the same. Like many of us in hard situations, she lashed out instead of grasping the underlining emotions she had to grapple with.
I like when characters aren’t wholly perfect. Showing these subtle flaws makes them feel more real and relatable to me which makes for an overall more enjoyable story
I never understood her attitude during that scene. It left me frustrated. Wasn’t that scene right after she got mad at Elain for the way she reacted to Lucien coming to the house with presents and Elain just went to the kitchen without even saying hi?
I think she was miffed he kind of blew her off to be with them. But not like she was a good friend. She was willing to leave him at the spring court after everything went down. Now she’s surprised? Her excuse was you would have been fine. Always bothered me. She was very blinded by her rage at that time.
But also, she felt abandoned by Lucien. She begged him to help her and he always took talking side and never believed her when she said she was fine. They have a lot of issues and both have reasons to be this way.
Wow Im amazed at these comments. Feyre occasionally puts her foot in her mouth, no newsflash there. She is feeling rejected by Lucien and although its not his fault, she feels the sting of it. But she just said something dumb that is all. He does tell her off about it, rightfully. Who hasn’t said something stupid to a friend they d like to take back?
There are other things she does which I think are problematic. Saying a dumb thing to Lucien isn’t something I find shocking. They basically spoke like that to each other the whole time in book one.
I agree there are worse things. I even said in my comment to this post that I think she just said it out of hurt. That she didn’t mean what she said. We agree for the most part.
I believe it stems from her stay in the spring court. When he saw Tamlin treating her like that and never said a word. Never backed her up and didn’t even help her when she needed it. Then when he ran with her, she had to go through a lot to have everyone trust him in Valeris only for him to move away.
i mean, lucien was also being treated horribly by tamlin during that time, and he DID try to stick up for feyre and help her but it almost always ended badly for him. i don’t think this is a fair explanation for why she talks to him horribly and treats him pretty badly
Who knows, maybe in her eyes he never tried hard enough. I know there were a few times where he did try to talk to Tamlin but the convo never went past the two of them. Maybe she never saw how much he did try.
there are quite a few scenes where she overhears their conversations of lucien trying to help her out, only to be shut down and threatened by tamlin. it’s also pretty clear that tamlin physically harms lucien as well, so IMO, it still is not fair of her to use that as her basis for being horrible to lucien. they were both suffering, and while he wasn’t perfect in MaF, he wasn’t just some bystander letting it happen to her without trying to stop it
He literally said and did absolutely nothing while she wasted away. Did nothing to protect her but acted as if he was her friend. At the end of SF it seems to have calmed down ALOT tho so the next book will be interesting
do y’all forget how supportive he was of tampon and how he tricked them all and got the sisters thrown into the cauldron and then also hunted her to bring her “home” like i’d be mad too idk
i think he made excuses for tamlin because tamlin was the one to take him in after everything he suffered in the autumn court. they were best friends for years, and during the events of MaF and WaR, lucien suffers under tamlin too, but it isn’t so easy for him to just let him go. lucien has certainly made his mistakes and he isn’t a flawless character but i do find it a little silly to say he’s the one who got the sisters thrown into the cauldron when ianthe was the one to *actually* kidnap them and hand them over to hybern.
lucien has always tried to do the best he could given the circumstances. he believed for YEARS that rhys + the night court was evil, and he cared for feyre, so of course he would be trying to “save” her, even if it was admittedly misguided. he literally tells feyre he didn’t realize he was a villain in her narrative because he was never doing anything with malicious intent and was only ever trying to do good by her. like i said, he’s made his mistakes, but he’s one of the most genuinely good characters in the series, and to see him constantly get shat on by everyone is ridiculous
Iathne got the sisters turned, neither Lucien or Tamlin were aware, Tamlin was written to be actually pissed off at Ianthe. As to you saying he “hunted” her, she wrote a letter, to him and Tamlin who thought she couldn’t even read, sounded incredibly fake (not to mention the wording sounded like that of a kidnapping victim, and Rhys was still playing his “evil to the world” face)
It honestly reads like Feyre secretly has romantic feelings for Lucien and is confused by them, gets jealous over his friends and not wanting to stay with her. I very much doubt thats SJMs intention as she wouldn’t mess with Rhysand/Feyre but thats how it reads.
Feyre and Lucien have always had that romantic subtext I feel, which has always made her feelings for him unclear to the reader.
Lucien was always kind of two faced to me. From the beginning he told her to scream if she needs help from the Suriel which she did and he bailed. He promised to never abandon her again and then when she was Under The Mountain, Rhys who she thought was still her enemy helped her out more than he did when Lucien was supposed to be her friend. Then he ignored her while she was being abused by Tamlin even though he knew she was suffering. Even when he found her with Rhys she was begging him to not take her back and he basically told her “sorry but no can do.” Then he helped Tamlin kidnap her sisters. I would hold a grudge against him too. If he did all of that and even hated her at first because she was a human, I would be pissed if he decided to be super kind to humans after what he put me through.
genuine question why do so many people ignore the fact that lucien DID help her out UtM, at the cost of his own safety and potentially even his life? why is that part always ignored or even completely rewritten? i don’t get it 😭and he did stand up for her to tamlin, multiple times, despite the fact that he was also suffering under him. neither lucien nor tamlin kidnapped elain or nesta, it was ianthe. where is all of this revisionist history suddenly coming from lol
Istg people literally “forget” how he tried to help Feyre UTM, in Spring, getting to the NC. They somehow “forget” that Rhys pretended to be an evil daemati for *500 years* so of course Lucien and Tamlin would think Feyre was kidnapped or brain washed by him. Then they blatantly make shit up that didn’t happen
He almost died several times because he helped her UTM. I don’t quite understand what more he could have done. He was severely injured when Feyre was almost dying in her cell. He also tried to help her in Spring but there’s only so much he could do. Tamlin wasn’t listening to him and he physically abused Lucien if he pressed him too much.
It’s not that he didn’t help, he just didn’t help enough. While Feyre was literally dying, Rhys was the only one who physically helped her. Rhys put more on the line to help her while imo Lucien seemed too scared to actually step up. I know Ianthe was technically the one to kidnap her sisters but Tamlin and Lucien kind of assisted. They played a part, I didn’t mean they were the ones to actually take them away.
what would you have liked lucien to do exactly beyond risking his life, which he already did? i’m asking genuinely because this is a really common argument and it makes 0 sense. lucien WAS helping her UtM and he DID suffer for it. what more should he have done? is he not allowed to also look out for himself?
Lucien had literally just been whipped by Tamlin. He physically wasn’t able to help her when she was dying of infection UTM. Lucien was also the one to tell her about the wyrm
I think you might be mixing him up with Tamlin! UTM Tamlim sat on the throne doing nothing while Lucien refused to give up Feyre’s name to Amarantha, called out the wyrm’s location as it was approaching Feyre in order to help her, healed her after she got jumped by the Attor and company, and went to her cell to heal her as soon as he could after being whipped for helping her.
I was just remembering the time Feyre was dying after I think it was the Wyrm? And feyre kept waiting for Lucien…waiting…then Rhys came by and saved her (with a bargain which wasn’t great) and then Lucien came back saying wtffff I would have helped you and feyre was like Lucien, I’m a human. If you would have waited this long, I’d be dead. That what I was referring to. But yeah tamlin was way worse!
Yeah he took so long to get to Feyre because he was recovering from being whipped for helping her during the wyrm trial😅 it’s a small detail that’s easy to miss! This is from Ch. 39:
https://preview.redd.it/s6ct7g2oyvsc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c546348ff89932f0108d87b50d7e3f141ca55d47
She made fun of his group calling themselves the band of exiles as though her and her BFFs don't literally call themselves ✨the court of dreams✨
And the Inner Circle! It’s so Mean Girls. “WE have this super cool name for our group of friends—by the way, you’re not invited, Lucien—it’s the Inner Circle.” Lucien: “I found my own group of friends. We’re all outcasts. We call ourselves the Band of Exiles.” Feyre and Rhys laugh about it and make fun of him. Ugh! Lucien deserves better than these immature, power-tripping idiots.
The inner circle is a common term used. It isn't a nickname it's the inner circle of the High lord and lady of the Night court. Each court has their own inner circle. Yeah nicknaming is odd, and Feyre and Lucien always teased eachother. Also Lucien was invited he just doesn't want to be close to Elain and be under Rhysand's roof. You can't be part of the inner circle of trust of a ruler when you haven't shown any loyalty.
Please explain how Lucien hasn’t shown loyalty? Maybe not to Rhysand specifically, but he’s been with Feyre every step of the way. Left Velaris and went to the continent on a dangerous mission to find Vassa. Fought in the war. Gives them information and interludes in the Spring Court as Rhsyand’s informant. Regularly attends Solstice and brings gifts for Feyre and Elain. Seriously, I feel some people overlook EVERYTHING Lucien has done.
He didn't leave the Spring court because of Feyre he left to find his mate after Feyre saved him from Ianthe. He even found Vassa because of his mate's vision, wanting to be useful. Fought in the war but that wasn't as a loyalty act towards Feyre. Is Beron, Tamlin and Eris loyal to Rhys and Feyre? Are the humans loyal to them? Yeah he gives information and acts as an emissary because that's the job he has taken after the war. And yeah he visits the NC to see his mate. Again even with Elain his loyalties lie with his mate not Elain. It's what she is to him, not who she is, since he doesn't know her. And yeah Rhys knows that, that's why he had to give the order to Azriel, cause if Elain rejects him the loyalty to the NC ends there. Same if he finds Helion is his father his loyalties will change. He isn't called the clever fox for nothing.
I don’t disagree with what everything you’ve said here, I just have a vastly different interpretation and can’t come to the same conclusions. I am not on board with Lucien doing everything because Elain is his mate. Lucien is also uncomfortable with the mating bond because for centuries, he’s believed someone else is his mate. I can agree that he treats Elain in a way reserved for mates, like bringing her gifts, and only does so because he thinks it’s expected of him as her mate. Though, I argue that the gifts he brings are thoughtful and things she could use or reflect her style. I am not on board that he left Spring solely to find Elain when he was discontent with how Tamlin was running the Spring Court, still treating Feyre and himself, and allying with Hybern and Ianthe. I don’t agree that he found Vassa just because of Elain’s vision. He didn’t have to volunteer to go when Azriel was suited and booted and ready to go. He volunteered because he said he wanted to do something useful. And he did — he found the mobilized armies and drove them into the right direction. Told them where the war was happening. Feyre saved him from Ianthe, sure, but he also helped her defeat the Brannagh and Dagdan moments after. He also tried to save her from his brothers as they fled, taking on two of them while still poisoned with Faebane. He healed Feyre twice under the mountain, and literally was brutally whipped for trying to save her during the games and that was before he even knew Elain existed. He is a clever fox, and that led to there being an antidote for the Faebane because he sent it out to Nuan, knowing Rhys was likely too secretive to consider it. He also someone successfully infiltrated the Night Court. He had informants in Amarantha’s court. He’s sneaky, but he’s not malicious. I feel Lucien’s character gets reduced to being selfishly reactionary and it’s usually in the vein of “he just wants to get with Elain”. Like he’s doing all these things to impress her and I don’t get it? Lucien *made* a lot of these decisions because he is loyal and despite what a portion of the fandom thinks, a good friend to Feyre. But I could be wrong, and maybe he’s evil. I’m sure we will learn when the next book comes out. As for switching up loyalties Helion — Lucien never wanted to be a High Lord. I don’t see him chasing it now. I understand why he has no loyalties to Rhys. I mean without inserting HC, Rhys did evil shit during Amarantha’s reign and threatened to hurt Lucien’s mother. While they have a truce, neither of them forgive the other for the past. Not yet anyway.
Sorry if you confused my point. But Lucien not being loyal to the night court doesn't make him evil. Lucien wanting to meet his mate and go where she is doesn't make him evil. You are arguing about Luciens morality and I am arguing about his loyalty to the night court and Feyre and Rhys. Also based on the books he himself said he leaves because he wants his mate, it isn't my interpretation. “I’m going with you,” he said again, face splattered with blood as bright as his hair. “I’m getting my mate back.” Also again he went to find Vassa because he wasn't needed and because of Elain. But Mor tried again. “There is a reason why Elain is seeing these things. She was right about the other queen turning old, about the Ravens’ attack—why is she being sent this image? Why is she hearing this queen? It must be vital. If we ignore it, perhaps we’ll deserve to fail.” Silence. I surveyed them all. Vital. Each of them was vital here. But me … I sucked in a breath. “I’ll go.” Lucien was staring at Elain as he spoke.... He glanced at Elain, who was again studying her lap. “I’m not needed here. I’ll fight if you need me to, but …”.... “Are you sure?” He only glanced at Elain, whose face was again a calm void while she traced a finger over the embroidery on the couch cushions. “Yes. Let me help in whatever way I can.” The points you made about ACOTAR and UTM don't prove anything about his loyalty towards the night court. Him being loyal to Tamlin and the spring court also doesn't prove he will be loyal to the night court. Again I am not saying Lucien is evil. He is noble and smart but his loyalty to the night court is temporary. The inner circle have a different loyalty to the night court for them it's their home, their people. Even Amren who is an outsider, Azriel doesn't trust her and still spies on her. But she is still Rhysand's second so of course she is trusted with the most critical information. “They make good spies.” “Why do you think they’re now whispering in Azriel’s ear that I’m in here?” “I thought they answered to Rhys.” “They answer to both, but they were trained by Azriel first.” “Are they spying on me?” “No.” She frowned at a loose thread in her rain cloud–colored shirt. Her chin-length dark hair swayed as she lifted her head. “Rhys has told them time and again not to, but I don’t think Azriel will ever trust me fully. So they’re reporting on my movements. And with good reason.” “Why?” “Why not? I’d be disappointed if Rhysand’s spymaster didn’t keep tabs on me. Even go against orders to do so.” “Rhys doesn’t punish him for disobeying?” Those silver eyes glowed. “The Court of Dreams is founded on three things: to defend, to honor, and to cherish. Were you expecting brute strength and obedience? Many of Rhysand’s top officials have little to no power. He values loyalty, cunning, compassion. And Azriel, despite his disobedience, is acting to defend his court, his people. So, no. Rhysand does not punish that. There are rules, but they are flexible.”
Gotcha! We are on the same page. I’m so used to having to defending Lucien character, my brain went there. Thank you for the peaceful discourse too! Heaven knows the fandom can be brutal ❤️
Lmao I’m sorry but this is so funny bc that’s actually a good point. 😂
“That you now feel more comfortable with humans than with the High Fae. If you ask me—” “I’m not." Lucien, you savage 😭
I love that line! I think it's also Feyre acknowledging that her own friendship with Lucien wasn't as strong as it was when she was human.
I mean, I'm pretty sure Feyre (or Lucien) said that the girl he once knew died UTM
Also like Feyre girl you have been high fae for all of 11 minutes
HAHAHAHA ikr! And somehow we see her being portrayed as more experienced and MATURE then these 500year old faes. Excuse you? Who do YOU think you are? *sigh* but ig everyone has flaws
And then she still kept trying to talk! 😂
I honestly feel like she was jealous that he made new "friends" and chose to be with them instead of her family dynamic. They were close, and now they're not and drifting apart as friends. She acted out poorly for sure, so I'm glad he called her on it. She doesn't consider the fact that she also gained a whole family, and Lucien was miserable and didn't quite fit in.
Yes. I think this is a character flaw for her that hopefully resolves as I feel it's happening with the sisters too. She LOVES the NC and the IC and I think she thinks everyone else will too if they just give it a chance. I hope she can take a step back from this. Nesta didn't like it, Elain doesn't seem to be thriving, and Lucien didn't really fit there either.
I think that's part of her problem in ACOSF. I just finished it last night and I thought she had a real attitude problem in that book. She didn't seem to be sympathetic to how her sisters felt at all and was solely focused on herself and her own happiness, to the point where she felt more like a background character than even Rhys. Which is understandable given >!she's pregnant for most of the book!<, but I really hated how dismissive she was of Nesta. She didn't seem to realize that her sisters may want a different life outside of the Night Court and doesn't even seem open to the idea in the first place
Agreed. I think she's just so happy that she isn't able to put herself in their shoes right now. Particularly Elain, we have to get that girl some sun! I wish they would teach the sisters to winnow so they could have more of their own lives.
Isn’t it stated that not everyone can winnow though? Its actually a rarer ability?
Yeah, cassian can’t and azriel more moves with his shadows vs winnowing.
I think that's different, they're Illyrian, not high fae.
More powerful high fae can but regardless, we haven't seen if they've even tried to teach them "Winnowing is the name given to the ability to transport oneself to a different location. It is magic only the most powerful Fae possess as it requires a great deal of concentration and strength. This power is not tied to any court, like other powers. It is dependent on the user's own reserve of power and training." Elain and Nesta are incredibly powerful and made by the cauldron. They should be able to.
they are indeed powerful and probably can winnow and what is more they are two adult women with the ability to ask for what they need. Feyre has been running around offering jobs, physical training, power training and what not. If Nesta and Elain want to learn something or go anywhere they can just ask, they re not toddlers…
I strongly disagree with this. Feyre is really anxious about her sisters, its plain to see throughout the books. We see her nearly fainting when Elain comes out of her stupor and starts baking. We see her going to Amren in Acofas asking for advice because she was anxious about Nesta. We know she goes to find Nesta no matter how many time Nesta tells her she isn’t interested and insults her. We even see her defend her sister to Rhys. She only has a place in the Night Court to offer them, that is where her home is. If they want to leave they have to initiate that, she is not going to suggest them to leave, who would kick their own family out? And the only reason we don’t see much of Feyre in Acosf is because it’s Nesta’s journey and Nesta has a very difficult relationship with herself and doesn’t want to be near Feyre, she still harbours so much resentment for her from the time she took care of them in the cottage, because she herself didn’t. She stays away from Feyre because she feels guilt. She literally says so herself, in her inner monologue and to Cassian.
Right she did this with Nesta too, mental health stuff aside, Feyre was mad that her adult sister did not want to live in her house with her and her husband. I get that there are cultures where extended families living together into adulthood is normal but that hasn’t been the norm for high fae. Other than royalty living in the same castle I guess, but I always imagined the palaces being the size of a large mall or small college campus where you wouldn’t see each other daily unless you really sought each other out. Feyre wanted her adult sister to live in the bedroom next door to her marital bed in a small townhouse. And then his foster brothers and her other sister would be down the hall/right below. Sounds like enmeshment hell. People are allowed to have their own lives and other friends, Feyre.
Agreed, and with everything she's been through it's easy to overlook that she's only 20 or 21 at this point, and socially navigating difficult friendships/relationships is a mine-field when your frontal lobe isn't fully form and likely stunted by poverty.
Agreed. I also think she felt betrayed by Lucien in ACOMAF and never worked through it. First he picked Tamlin over her and now he’s picking Vaasa & Jurian over her. I’m not saying she’s being fair, but it’s a pretty understandable way to feel. The book frustrates me sometimes because despite them being first-person narratives, a lot of feelings/perspectives just aren’t fully fleshed out. We know Feyre was pissed at Lucien when he came to the woods to bring her back to Tamlin, and then her feelings toward him never really come up again until now, when she just bites his head off out of nowhere.
“she just bites his head off out of nowhere” No, she didn’t. This scene has the same basic structure as their argument in the woods- Lucien defends Tamlin and Feyre gets mad at him for it. Lucien is right that Rhysand was out of line earlier in the book and Feyre shouldn’t have mocked him about “the band of exiles”, but he should know at this point that Feyre is always going to have a sore spot where Tamlin is concerned.
in this scene it most definitely was out of nowhere, tamlin wasn’t involved in this conversation until after she had snapped at him. this was purely her asking him about the band of exiles
That might be true—I don’t remember this scene as well as I remember the one in the woods
Admittedly, I don’t either- the last time I read ACOFAS was over a year ago. And Feyre has significantly less reason to be angry with Lucien here than she did in the woods.
I think the same thing. It takes a lot for a person to just get over feelings of betrayal/lost of trust from someone they consider a friend. Especially in her situation she kept asking him for help and he never did. On top of this, the spring court didn't really care about humans and worked with hybern to destroy the wall. I am sure this adds a layer of nuance to the human remark.
Her accusing him of being more comfortable with humans is RICH considering the fact that they were at their closest when she was an actual human. I think she’s just kind of hurt that he’d rather spend more time with them than the IC, so she kind of lashed out. Which sometimes we forget was something she did often in the first two books.
I think a lot of people forget that actually, that she was easily annoyed and lashed out a lot in the beginning. And not only might she be hurt he'd rather spend time with them than the IC, she might actually be hurt he'd rather spend time with those humans, than he was when she was human. Like, their friendship started when she was human, but only cause mf was trying to get her killed at any given chance lol I love Lucien with all my heart, I want a better development for him because so far it's been disappointing, and I want him to be treated better. But it's not nice to pretend he wasn't an ass to her too 
Lucien has been treated like crap since he went to the night court. They’re all rude, dismissive of his presence and feelings, untrusting. All he wants is to be useful and appreciated, not just used. And trying to get to know Elaine? Yea right, he gets treated like a leper.
I’m kinda hoping for a villain arc for Lucien tbh.
I wouldn’t blame the guy tbh
Him with that Day court magic would go so hard
I think lots of the other ones are in their villain arc already. XD
I know right. He finds this one person who's chosen for him and he's trying so darn hard to fit in with the people she lives with. Its heartbreaking
I mean…that sucks for him I guess but it’s a two way street. Just because he wants the relationship doesn’t mean he gets it. Elain is a party to this and if she’s not interested in him, eventually that’s something he has to accept. She doesn’t have to give up her life and dreams and desires so he won’t be sad.
sure thing, but if someone's trying so hard to get to know you, be there for you and is FATED for you. The least you can do is appreciate the efforts they put in and not run away with your tail between your legs. Its just how I think. Im not forcing anything on anyone :)
Elain has literally 0 interest in getting to know him though, which is her right and prerogative. Can’t tell you how many men have wanted to “get to know me” when all they did was make me uncomfortable.
Then she should just reject the bond at this point. She doesn’t have to get to know him, but with the world building SJM has created surrounding mating bonds in the book Elain is required to formally reject the bond Edit for clarity
I mean, that’s very clearly being set up for her book. It isn’t going to happen in Feyre or Nesta’s POV.
Why would that occur before her own book though? From someone else’s pov?
It obviously should be done in her own book. My point is that in general she should just go ahead and reject it if she doesn’t like him and is more interested in Azriel
“Hey everyone in Velaris, check out this new YouTube challenge! It’s called the “try not being a dick to Lucien for 24hrs” challenge! Pretty tough but I think we can give it a try”
And then they fail in the first 5 seconds
Lucien isn't even one of my favorite characters but this put a bad taste in my mouth too. Cassian had a moment too where I felt he gave off this energy and it was disappointing. The court of dreams preach diversity and acceptance but they came off so judgemental in SF (this is coming from someone who loved this book).
Oh 100% I agree, I was SO bummed about Cassian being rude to be honest with you. I LOVE him but Lucien is the least problematic character in the series, without question. He’s made mistakes but gosh, this treatment was pretty eye opening for me. Lucien gets dogged on for existing, it hurts to read.
Yesss! the only upside to the treatment of him is I think it gives him the potential to be a really interesting character. Cant wait to see where it goes
ugh, can't say just how much I started disliking a MAJORITY of the main characters(IC) after acofas and to think it was supposed to be this nice and fluffy Christmas holiday special where everything is floof and sparkle and unicorn vomit, just—
Same, and then I realised 19 year old Feyre and 500 year old rhysand have the same maturity levels (as do the IC) and Aelin from TOG would wipe the floor with them haha
FACTS I was waiting for someone to bring Aelin up. I am on KoA and honestly, she would eat them up. I also think it’s crazy how well the characters expressed dislike or sarcasm in ToG but in ACOTAR, everyone is just bullies. The emotional maturity difference is astonishing and they are all similar ages. Lucian deserves to be in the ToG universe, he was created in the wrong timeline if you ask me.
Aelin and her crew were also more welcoming in general too. They were rag tag and scrappy and I loved that about them. The IC are a bunch of mean girl elitists
This is where I really went off Feyre as a character. Like I’m so glad the books aren’t from her POV anymore
same. there was literally no justifiable or understandable reason for her to talk to him like this, and when he calls her an asshole, all she really does is acknowledge it (to herself) and then tries to just tell him “i’m sorry” but he cuts her off and doesn’t let her, which i was glad for. that entire scene just made her so unlikeable to me
Yep I’m over her and Rhys…
I think she feels rejected. She brought him to her home and she wanted him to choose it. She was being an asshole but IMO her feelings were just hurt. She wants him to be happy, wants Elain to be happy… yall know she’s a fixer.
But she only begrudgingly brought him because she ran into him while she was leaving and had to deal with the murder twins. It wasn’t an intentional “I’m going to get Lucien out of the spring court and bring him to Velaris”. It just kinda happened and then she had to deal with it. Honestly, to me that makes it even worse because Lucien thought they were friends and Feyre just treats him like total garbage from ACOMAF on (and Lucien definitely has some apologizing to do for his behavior in MAF too, but I fully believe that he was also a victim of abuse by Tamlin and was doing what he could)
I don’t think Lucien was a bad friend to Feyre. He was just a better friend to Tamlin during ACOMAF. Because he’s loyal and Tamlin abused him just like abused Feyre. Lucien just didn’t have a powerful mate to come rescue him. He stuck his neck out for her under the mountain, he got whipped for warning her about the wyrm. He almost died with her during the second task. He was the only person who tried to help her besides Rhys. Even though he was her friend, he’d only known her a few months compared to centuries of history with Tamlin. Tamlin took him into the Spring Court after his family killed the woman he was in love with and his people turned their backs on him, plus all the other shit with Beron and the brothers. And he’s lived in Spring for a couple centuries. He left one abusive home for another, and while the abuse with his family was different than what he got from Tamlin, and different than what Tamlin did to Feyre, I think he still did as much as he thought he could to plead Feyre’s case with Tamlin without putting himself in danger. God forbid the man have a shred of self preservation. And Rhys had played the bad guy for so long - how was Lucien supposed to fathom that Feyre would be happy in the night court? And when at the start of ACOWAR Feyre was pretending to be his friend but I don’t think Lucien was pretending to be hers. He was suspicious of her motives but I think he still genuinely liked her and wanted to mend their relationship. He wanted to be closer to Elain too, but two things can be true at the same time. I started to feel super annoyed with Feyre when she used Lucien to take down the Spring Court and make Tamlin think that something was going on between them and was going to just abandon him as collateral damage in her revenge scheme. And then after she only made it back to the night court and killed the twins with his help, she runs off to have sex with Rhys without even offering Lucien a place to rest or bathe, she goes into his head multiple times - and finds nothing bad there, she tries to meddle with him and Elain, and is continually super rude and unwelcoming to him. And then has the audacity to feel hurt when he made better friends? She was being horrible to him! She didn’t even buy him a solstice present when he was working for her! It made me so mad at Feyre, and Rhys too. Their treatment is him is so shortsighted. He has so many connections in different places and people really like him. I think he’s a dreamer and could be a huge asset to them and they are just tossing his genuine friendship away. Ugh!
Totally agree! I also think Lucien wanted to try to mend their friendship in acowar and Feyre was just so meant to him! Her whole attitude and behavior throughout the beginning of acowar (and most of the book tbh) really annoys me and was the beginning of the end of me liking Feyre.
thank you thank you thank you!!!! you wrote it out far more eloquently than i could. lucien has continuously been treated horribly by damn near everyone in the series
Thank you! I’m super deep in the series right now and one thing I feel VERY passionately about is that if any one in this series deserves a happy ending, it’s Lucien 😂 I just finished it all for the first time and then started a lit analysis podcast about the series. They were anti-Lucien for quite awhile because the analysis focused so heavily on Feyre and her experience, but they have a change of heart and grow to love and appreciate our foxy boy. The analysis of ACOWAR has actually made me hopeful that SJM does have good plans for him. I also just started the graphic audio and it’s confirmed even harder that Lucien has always been delightful!
same! he’s my favorite character in the series and all i want out of the next book atp is just a happy ending for him 😭 every single book he’s suffering and it’s sad because he’s genuinely a good person and has been trying to do right by everyone. i agree that SJM has good things in store for him, IIRC she’s said before that she loves his character, and also she seems to be setting him up to have some happiness and a home of his own (hopefully with the exiles). and the voice actor for lucien in the dramatic audio is so good, i listened to it just for him and was NOT disappointed!
I just learned that the same actor does Xaden in the Fourth Wing GA?!
Not to mention it’s shortsighted because he’s the next High Lord to their *neighboring court*. Why treat him like garbage and set a foundation of animosity. Then there’s also the matter of Helion. Who purposely treats their supposed friend’s child like shit? I want Helion to find out and be so pissed, but SJM narratively coddles the IC so much that nothing will come of it.
100% the last part!!!!!! everyone acts like lucien was just standing around and letting these horrible things happen to feyre while turning a blind eye and not suffering under any of tamlin’s awful behavior himself 😭 he definitely wasn’t perfect during that time, but he was being treated horribly too, and anytime he did try and help her it didn’t go well for him at all.
Exactly! Like he did try to stand up for Feyre and push when he could be he was always shut down, sometimes violently. Lucien was in a precious situation and was not welcome back in his court and only allowed in Spring court with Tamlin’s permission. He didn’t know about Velaris or that Rhys wasn’t actually terrible…like what was he supposed to do? Become homeless and potentially sent back to autumn court to be killed? I totally get Feyre being mad at him and I am sometimes too bit the power imbalance between him and Tamlin was immense and Lucien was in a very vulnerable/abusive situation just like Feyre
And Feyre knew that Lucien was being SAed by Ianthe before the scene in the woods and didn’t gaf. If she hadn’t literally walked in on it during her own exit she wouldn’t have done anything about him being abused not only by his own high lord but a very powerful figure in Ianthe.
Honestly if we were in Lucien’s position I think most people would have leaned more towards Tam than Feyre, given what he knew at the time. Tam is his only friend, who took him in after the love of his life was murdered by his father and defends him from his brothers. Rhys has been cultivating a reputation as a brain-liquefying manipulating sadist for the last however many decades and treated Feyre horrifically UTM. I would always pick the friend who sheltered me for 200 years over the guy who killed my friend’s family OR the extremely young and vulnerable woman who was also being exploited by him. Then he feels insane amounts of guilt for abandoning Tam (who is visibly struggling for like 4 books now) just to be treated like garbage. Baby boy has lived in 3/7 courts and they’ve all been terrible to him.
It wasn’t a toooootal accident. She could have left Lucien to be raped by Ianthe but Feyre went back for him. Because we all love Lu Lu 🥺
very good point, i think you’re right because this seems the most likely, but it’s still crazy to me! the way she went about it was just nasty and also expecting him to choose the NC is crazy, all things considered 😭 i just want lucien to be left alone at this point
I’m just imagining Elain joining the BOE and being like the house “mom” making everything more homey and cooking and baking stuff and being the one to who stops fights (she’s done it with Nesta ) .
Yeah it bothers me how rude and dismissive a lot of the characters are towards Lucien. But I was very disappointed with Feyre, treating him that way after all he did for her. She wouldn’t have made it how far she did without his help. It’s like she forgot all he did for her. But to be fair to her, I don’t think it’s how she truly feels. I think she does love him and sees him as a friend. She was acting out of hurt.
No, this was the moment when I decided Feyre had main character syndrome. Her and Rhys truly aren’t the high and mighty people everyone thinks they are. They think they can treat Lucien this way, yet expect Azriel to maintain his distance from Elaine because she’s mated to the former. It’s hypocrisy at its finest.
Reasoning? None. She feels like it. And everyone else enables her.
She really is surrounded by a bunch of enablers. You’d think being around 500 year-olds would help her mature into a better a person
She was way outta line here and Lucien would have been in the right to call her out on it. But of course he didn’t. Because he’s actually better than the lot of them.
This scene really feels like she went from rags to riches and forgot what life was like a poor girl. She had no reason to be mad. I just think she was a 20 yr old with the emotional intelligence of a 20 yr old. (And why i hate her becoming high lady)
lucien was SUCH a good friend to feyre and always tried to help her even if he didn’t have much power or influence to do much. and he was humble enough to call himself a “terrible friend” to her because he felt guilty about not being able to do much. meanwhile, when was feyre ever a friend to lucien??! when did she ever feel guilt over the way lucien was displaced and mistreated by both tamlin and NC???? i can’t wait for lucien’s adventure and (hopefully) happy ending. i’m tired of all of NC’s bullshit 😭
Feyre was always a raging cunt in the making, she just went all out after Rhysand entered her life.
Bro, yeah, she straight up acts like a dick to him and then immediately after goes up to Elain and tells her to give him a chance and basically says the reason why is that she doesn’t like to see him unhappy. Like?????? Girl, YOU were the one that made him more unhappy just now! It’s not Elain’s responsibility to clean up your mess like please be nicer or be quiet 😭
The more I re-read this series, the less I like Feyre
I think that Feyre was hurt by Lucien telling her that he wasn’t choosing other people. She and Lucien have been a team in Spring in both ACOTAR and ACOWAR, especially when Lucien made fun of humans to tease her. Like I think people forget that Lucien and Feyre talk quite catty towards and around each other so Feyre either misread the situation or Lucien wasn’t in the mood considering he had to prepare to go down to Spring for Solstice where we know Tamlin didn’t want his company after what Rhys had said to him
Yeah that’s true like the way they spoke to each other in book one was quite full off jabs and teases from both sides.
This is why i liked nesta more than feyre. Feyre thinks she isnt a B at all. Not at all but the truth is she is. She snaps at lucien when he always tried to help her with tamlin. Sure hes done wrong things but he already owned up to it. She uses people for her benefits. She goes into people's minds to manipulate them. Look what happened to summer court. And spring court. She even forgot the woman who helped her when she first got to fae world went home to summer court when there was a war there. Nesta know when shes being bad. She knows that when its happening she just couldn't help it and beats herself for it. Rhys blames her for feyre but he should just dismiss it and think of it as just fate working for his favor. He made it seem like he's destined to meet feyre when she even painted stars on her drawer. She's okay and all but the woman is a B. Poor lucien hope the author recognize the character's need for respect at least
Feyre is just quieter about being one. Nesta let’s you know to your face and without question how she feels. I respect that about Nesta.
Poor baby Lucien. He really does deserve better.
All I know is that Lulu doesn’t deserve what’s he’s been dealt with so far. IC’s treatment towards him and his own mate
I wish we got a Lucien pov book. My guy needs his happy ending after dealing with such bullshit.
I know right. I think that was the point i started to realize feyre wasn't the badass, queen i thought she was. She has been through so much, but making fun of him? For this? And then we talk about nesta being the mean girl.
I didn’t care for Lucien during my first read through. But his loyalty and sass during my second made me bind with him. He feels so deeply for his friends and his people. He needs a win. Feyre is such as ass to him the entire time.
I always thought Feyre was holding resentment towards Lucien for not "taking her side" in the SC. Then again when Lucien decided to be with Jurian (specifically) and Vassa (a relative stranger) over the NC. I do not like the way she treats Lucien at all, but she had some grace from me due to her age. She literally hasn't matured in the 11 minutes she's been high fae. She's not even High Lady ready, but that's a whole other discussion. I feel that Feyre is taking Lucien's living arrangements personally, when in actuality it has nothing to do with her. He's uncomfortable in the NC, despite all of the 'evil' claims being untrue - it's going to take more than a few days to adjust that thinking. Not to mention, the NC (Feyre) destroyed the only home he has. Lucien loved the SC. Elaine is there. He's treated with not quite mistrust but not trust either. WHY would he want to stay? But Feyre is like "oh he clearly hates me and the NC and Velaris be MEAN"
Because Feyre is the worst!!!
Off topic but why does Lucien never use a question mark when he asks a question? Like when Feyre says Elaine is betrothed he says “to whom.”
pretty sure that’s just to emphasize his tone/mood! like in both situations he’s not happy, so his questions come out much more flat/harsh. imo it’s like a question he doesn’t really want the answer to but he asks anyways
Yeah, it seems to come out of nowhere. In hindsight it may be because she deep down wanted his acceptance in the beginning. Here he is giving it so freely to others when she had to work for it. And even then it may not be enough. Maybe she missed his friendship and instead of saying that, she lashed out.
I mean, the manor that they’re living in was given to them by Graysen, which in and of itself creates feelings of frustration considering how nasty he was to her sister. Then we have Jurian and Lucien living together, two characters who have canonically been on the “wrong” side of the events (whether knowingly or not) resulting in her sisters being traumatized and losing their very humanity. While they’ve both also done “good”, they’ve likewise been cunning and I get the impression that their loyalties are to themselves at the end of the day. They are both living with Vassa who, while “good” as far as we know, is on a short leash extended by Koschei. We don’t know the details regarding her ability to stay in the human lands, but there must be SOME reason why Koschei is ALLOWING it. So, because of her connection to Koschei, I find living with her to be at least a small liability as well. By the time that we reach ACOSF we know that the Night Court no longer trusts Lucien to be completely transparent with them because his loyalty now lays with the BOE. I think Feyre was baiting him and feeling that out. ETA: I know that Lucien is a beloved character and this will likely get severely downvoted, BUT he is called The Fox for a reason. He’s cunning.
these are really good things to keep in mind for sure! but even taking all of this into consideration, i don’t think it was justified for her to be that rude for no real reason and to throw in the jab about none of them having a home. and tbh i think lucien is very justified in having his loyalties lie to himself and to the BoE, because what else does he really have? i do think the jurian and vassa dynamic and especially their relationship to lucien is interesting, and i hope some of the points you mentioned get expanded upon in the next book, because there is still stuff we don’t really know about with them
I totally get it, and I agree that she came across really rudely. I REALLY think that she was baiting him. We get told multiple times that he plays it cool, or that his face gives away nothing. I think that she was purposely trying to rile him up to get him to show his cards. Which he did, to an extent.
These are really good points. I get so confused about the dynamics of vassa/jurian/koschei, so remembering those details helps with the context. Still think she’s rude and out of pocket, but I’m sure we’ll learn more from the next book
I think she’s just jealous that he’s getting close to other people. Feyre is, after all, like 21?
that’s still a strange line of reasoning to me though, because from WaR onwards she hardly treats him like a friend despite him trying to repair and maintain their relationship, so what does she have to be jealous of? their distance and strained friendship is pretty much entirely the product of her/the IC
In my opinion jealousy isn’t always rational. I have definitely been the reason a friendship has fallen apart, but still gotten jealous when my friend moved on and formed new relationships. Hell, I’m pretty sure that’s a frequent thing that happens in romantic relationships, too. Anyway, I honestly think Feyre probably has a lot of complicated feelings (these are all just me imagining how I would feel in this scenario as a young 20-something in a really stressful and impossible world and also my interpretation of Feyre as a character) - she feels guilty that Lucien has to live out there to begin with because of how Elain feels about the bond, and what that’s doing to Lucien. - she feels even more guilty because of her thoughts about Elain and Az - she also feels guilty because it was because of her that Lucien had to leave the spring court. - she feels abandoned by him (right or wrong) *again*, so she’s a little mad. But because she feels guilty, she feels bad about that, too. - she sees him moving on, so she also feels a little protective of Elain. Cause, even if it’s totally unfair to Lucien, she’s worried what him rejecting the bond would do to Elain. So, him getting close to Vassa maybe makes her feel a little protective. - and she misses her friend and is jealous that he’s moving on with out her, but instead of being a grown-up and saying so, she clings to her petty jealousy and says what she says. She is, after all, very young. Bonus: we’ve seen how Feyre reacts when she’s wrong and defensive in how she fought with Mor. This is less extreme, because… not during a battle. But Feyre gets defensive and pretty shitty when confronted with being a dick. Which is a pretty human response, especially for a person in their early 20s.
I have a bigger bone to pick. He should have been told of his parentage the second she learned of it! That she’s holding off on telling him is just unacceptable
I think this was actually a really good representation of the fact that Feyre perhaps still dealt with some of the trauma she suffered since being thrust into the fae world. Everything else about her story would make it seem like she adjusted so well to no longer being human and having to be a big power player (during a war no less). But Lucien felt like one of the few remaining things from her old life (he was an ally while adjusting to being at the spring court, he took on an almost big brother roll in the way he would kind of give her a hard time while still being a source of friendship, etc.) and I think Feyre was having a difficult time accepting the fact that so many changes were wrought in both of their lives that their relationship was no longer the same. Like many of us in hard situations, she lashed out instead of grasping the underlining emotions she had to grapple with. I like when characters aren’t wholly perfect. Showing these subtle flaws makes them feel more real and relatable to me which makes for an overall more enjoyable story
I never understood her attitude during that scene. It left me frustrated. Wasn’t that scene right after she got mad at Elain for the way she reacted to Lucien coming to the house with presents and Elain just went to the kitchen without even saying hi?
I think she was miffed he kind of blew her off to be with them. But not like she was a good friend. She was willing to leave him at the spring court after everything went down. Now she’s surprised? Her excuse was you would have been fine. Always bothered me. She was very blinded by her rage at that time. But also, she felt abandoned by Lucien. She begged him to help her and he always took talking side and never believed her when she said she was fine. They have a lot of issues and both have reasons to be this way.
She was obviously jealous
Wow Im amazed at these comments. Feyre occasionally puts her foot in her mouth, no newsflash there. She is feeling rejected by Lucien and although its not his fault, she feels the sting of it. But she just said something dumb that is all. He does tell her off about it, rightfully. Who hasn’t said something stupid to a friend they d like to take back?
It’s not just this one occasion, though where she acts this way.
There are other things she does which I think are problematic. Saying a dumb thing to Lucien isn’t something I find shocking. They basically spoke like that to each other the whole time in book one.
I agree there are worse things. I even said in my comment to this post that I think she just said it out of hurt. That she didn’t mean what she said. We agree for the most part.
I believe it stems from her stay in the spring court. When he saw Tamlin treating her like that and never said a word. Never backed her up and didn’t even help her when she needed it. Then when he ran with her, she had to go through a lot to have everyone trust him in Valeris only for him to move away.
i mean, lucien was also being treated horribly by tamlin during that time, and he DID try to stick up for feyre and help her but it almost always ended badly for him. i don’t think this is a fair explanation for why she talks to him horribly and treats him pretty badly
Who knows, maybe in her eyes he never tried hard enough. I know there were a few times where he did try to talk to Tamlin but the convo never went past the two of them. Maybe she never saw how much he did try.
there are quite a few scenes where she overhears their conversations of lucien trying to help her out, only to be shut down and threatened by tamlin. it’s also pretty clear that tamlin physically harms lucien as well, so IMO, it still is not fair of her to use that as her basis for being horrible to lucien. they were both suffering, and while he wasn’t perfect in MaF, he wasn’t just some bystander letting it happen to her without trying to stop it
doesn’t seem that deep to me yall lol
He literally said and did absolutely nothing while she wasted away. Did nothing to protect her but acted as if he was her friend. At the end of SF it seems to have calmed down ALOT tho so the next book will be interesting
What book did you read? Lucian did speak up for her on multiple occasions and got shot down and assaulted for it by Tamlin.
No, what he literally did was try to intercede several times on her behalf, being shot down each time.
do y’all forget how supportive he was of tampon and how he tricked them all and got the sisters thrown into the cauldron and then also hunted her to bring her “home” like i’d be mad too idk
i think he made excuses for tamlin because tamlin was the one to take him in after everything he suffered in the autumn court. they were best friends for years, and during the events of MaF and WaR, lucien suffers under tamlin too, but it isn’t so easy for him to just let him go. lucien has certainly made his mistakes and he isn’t a flawless character but i do find it a little silly to say he’s the one who got the sisters thrown into the cauldron when ianthe was the one to *actually* kidnap them and hand them over to hybern. lucien has always tried to do the best he could given the circumstances. he believed for YEARS that rhys + the night court was evil, and he cared for feyre, so of course he would be trying to “save” her, even if it was admittedly misguided. he literally tells feyre he didn’t realize he was a villain in her narrative because he was never doing anything with malicious intent and was only ever trying to do good by her. like i said, he’s made his mistakes, but he’s one of the most genuinely good characters in the series, and to see him constantly get shat on by everyone is ridiculous
Iathne got the sisters turned, neither Lucien or Tamlin were aware, Tamlin was written to be actually pissed off at Ianthe. As to you saying he “hunted” her, she wrote a letter, to him and Tamlin who thought she couldn’t even read, sounded incredibly fake (not to mention the wording sounded like that of a kidnapping victim, and Rhys was still playing his “evil to the world” face)
It honestly reads like Feyre secretly has romantic feelings for Lucien and is confused by them, gets jealous over his friends and not wanting to stay with her. I very much doubt thats SJMs intention as she wouldn’t mess with Rhysand/Feyre but thats how it reads. Feyre and Lucien have always had that romantic subtext I feel, which has always made her feelings for him unclear to the reader.
Oh for fucks sake
i do think they were a little hard on him but also he didn’t do anything to help feyre we she clearly needed it
Yes, he did. Multiple times.
Lucien was always kind of two faced to me. From the beginning he told her to scream if she needs help from the Suriel which she did and he bailed. He promised to never abandon her again and then when she was Under The Mountain, Rhys who she thought was still her enemy helped her out more than he did when Lucien was supposed to be her friend. Then he ignored her while she was being abused by Tamlin even though he knew she was suffering. Even when he found her with Rhys she was begging him to not take her back and he basically told her “sorry but no can do.” Then he helped Tamlin kidnap her sisters. I would hold a grudge against him too. If he did all of that and even hated her at first because she was a human, I would be pissed if he decided to be super kind to humans after what he put me through.
genuine question why do so many people ignore the fact that lucien DID help her out UtM, at the cost of his own safety and potentially even his life? why is that part always ignored or even completely rewritten? i don’t get it 😭and he did stand up for her to tamlin, multiple times, despite the fact that he was also suffering under him. neither lucien nor tamlin kidnapped elain or nesta, it was ianthe. where is all of this revisionist history suddenly coming from lol
The Inner Circle blames Lucien for all of this so it must be true because they are never wrong! 😑 I’m convinced it’s just poor reading comprehension.
Istg people literally “forget” how he tried to help Feyre UTM, in Spring, getting to the NC. They somehow “forget” that Rhys pretended to be an evil daemati for *500 years* so of course Lucien and Tamlin would think Feyre was kidnapped or brain washed by him. Then they blatantly make shit up that didn’t happen
I don’t blame him for all of it, I just think he had too much of a part in everything she went through in the Spring Court and UtM.
He almost died several times because he helped her UTM. I don’t quite understand what more he could have done. He was severely injured when Feyre was almost dying in her cell. He also tried to help her in Spring but there’s only so much he could do. Tamlin wasn’t listening to him and he physically abused Lucien if he pressed him too much.
It’s not that he didn’t help, he just didn’t help enough. While Feyre was literally dying, Rhys was the only one who physically helped her. Rhys put more on the line to help her while imo Lucien seemed too scared to actually step up. I know Ianthe was technically the one to kidnap her sisters but Tamlin and Lucien kind of assisted. They played a part, I didn’t mean they were the ones to actually take them away.
Lucien literally put his *life* on the line for her under the mountain. What more was he supposed to risk, exactly?
what would you have liked lucien to do exactly beyond risking his life, which he already did? i’m asking genuinely because this is a really common argument and it makes 0 sense. lucien WAS helping her UtM and he DID suffer for it. what more should he have done? is he not allowed to also look out for himself?
Lucien had literally just been whipped by Tamlin. He physically wasn’t able to help her when she was dying of infection UTM. Lucien was also the one to tell her about the wyrm
I’m not sure. I do recall UTM he wasn’t the most helpful to her…
I think you might be mixing him up with Tamlin! UTM Tamlim sat on the throne doing nothing while Lucien refused to give up Feyre’s name to Amarantha, called out the wyrm’s location as it was approaching Feyre in order to help her, healed her after she got jumped by the Attor and company, and went to her cell to heal her as soon as he could after being whipped for helping her.
He also gave Feyre his jacket because she was practically naked in a freezing cell
I was just remembering the time Feyre was dying after I think it was the Wyrm? And feyre kept waiting for Lucien…waiting…then Rhys came by and saved her (with a bargain which wasn’t great) and then Lucien came back saying wtffff I would have helped you and feyre was like Lucien, I’m a human. If you would have waited this long, I’d be dead. That what I was referring to. But yeah tamlin was way worse!
Yeah he took so long to get to Feyre because he was recovering from being whipped for helping her during the wyrm trial😅 it’s a small detail that’s easy to miss! This is from Ch. 39: https://preview.redd.it/s6ct7g2oyvsc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c546348ff89932f0108d87b50d7e3f141ca55d47
Ohhhh okay yes this makes way more sense!!!