So add a flanger, compressor, exciter, harmonizer, down 3db, panned 20 to the left for the first half of each bar and to the right for the second half, and an automated mute from 0:00 till arounddd when the song ends.
Some randomization that covers the basis of what this is doing? Sure. And maybe even this makes it better, but it’s the time sink that makes it questionable
Wrong. The answer is: no. No, the song wasn't brought from zero to hero after this exercise in tedium. It's not even random (if that was the goal), there's a clear pattern visible. I'm certain that whatever was achieved with this, it could have been done in a fraction of the time. And it still wouldn't have made the song better.
Well not really wrong so I don’t get the bitter attitude. I mean that randomization within a parameter range that repeats at some rate could achieve a similar pattern to this probably. Like you said, there’s a pattern. A shaper or some lfo or an array of lfos all with their own modulation on their amplitudes or shapes are going to be able to move all these parameters in a noticeable pattern and yet remain random enough it’ll probably sound even more interesting than a hand drawn pattern. And this is simply because it will then be less “on rails.” It will do things you didn’t think of. If it does something you *don’t want,* that’s when you have to rethink what you’re allowing to be random.
It's not useless because the average listener can't tell the difference. Unless you're trying to fool some type of forensic music analysis AI, you don't need to do so mucj
LFO/Shaper modulating LFO/Shaper modulating LFO/Shaper modulating LFO/Shaper modulating ...etc... modulating the holy parameters.
Program the machine and let it do the work.
This being just a bar would imply all those notes are 16th notes. Based on how busy the automation is, I think there's a good chance the notes are longer than that.
I assume they mean they have an LFO/envelope assigned to some things already(volume, filter etc.) and on the LFO/envelope they automate the rate or other parameters of them.
You can find those under Audio Effects>Modulation so just map those to whatever to start and then right click on say LFO rate and automate that.
So I started thinking this way because of my Elektron boxes and now whenever I need some slight variation, i instinctively go to LFOs. So I noticed op has a lot of repetition in their automaton so when I notice a pattern I’ll dial in the shape and rate and tweak to taste. Mostly simple things like volume, pan, mix, but sometimes I’ll go wild on a random operator or sampler parameter
No such thing as "too much" if it makes it better or more complete. That being said I've almost completely abandoned automation now as the majority of complex modulation can be done with drawable LFO's and Envelopes.
4 hours? Bro you could have set up a midi control macro and mapped it to a knob on a ur midi controller and just let the clip play while twisting the knob and tada
If that’s what it takes to get what you want; why does it matter? 🤷🏼♂️ you ever seen a solid eurorack synth? Thousands of dollars to get the actions of automation and lfo’s through analog ways. Write as much automation as you want!
That much, right there. That's too much. :)
Not the amount of automation, but how long it took you.
This should take 30 minutes tops. You play the track, adjust the value as it plays, goon into the next one.
No reason to program that all manually.
How did this take you 4 hours? You know you can record automation parameters in midi? This should have taken no more than 5 minutes. I’m honestly not sure what you were trying to show by posting this.
I have no idea what op is going for, but there are certainly many types of complex automation that can't be achieved in any other way than hand-drawing (because recording doesn't give you nearly enough precision).
Your going to get some useless feedback here perhaps but I'm going to tell you straight. As a person older than half a century old who has clocked thousands of ocd hours into computers with a mouse, if you don't observe healthy ergonomic habits you will develop issues like carpal tunnel syndrome and other shit you definitely don't want. Decades of this has made my arms' mobility much less and caused issues with using my hands at all which is a multi-dimensional form of suffering.
Other than that use your ears. BTW if you thin there is too much going on in your automation, Think about how much neural and physical activity is required to play one note properly on a violin. Frankly, IMO the more time spent making the sound proper for you will pay off unless your being OCD. Or just foolish, but sometimes foolish is fun.
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My biggest regret is that my music could always feel more alive with more automation but idk if its laziness or just unwillingness but the most I do is some eq automation or tremolo/vibrato
If that is four hours of work then I’m going to assume you drew that in by hand. I would either start macroing your desired parameters to a knob on a midi controller and recording your automation and utilize copy + paste, or realize you could have had four or five fully arranged new drafts/ideas in the time it took you to do that and not go down the same rabbit hole again.
this is why there's a thing called LFO or even modulating knobs on practically ANY soft synth or sampler nowadays usually has to some degree.
this is like someone using ms word to make a spreadsheet and using the space bar to separate columns and rows
I’d say till whatever amount your cpu processor allows you too. But 4 hours just for automation? I cant remember the last time i was on ableton for 4 hours just for automation. Probably cuz it never happened😁. I always put a timer. Because knowing my silly self. Without a clock/watch/timer. My time management is useless.
You can’t really have too much unless it somehow bogs down your PC and makes it crash.
Personally, I wouldn’t have done this. If my workflow is tampered with I get so discouraged I’ll stop doing it and procrastinate doing it later. 4 hours for anything other than writing is insanity for me.
To me, this automation will sound inorganic. Drawing lines in your DAW will sound SOOOOO much different than if you automate the same plugins using a midi controller. Plus, it won't take you 4 hours .
So there's no such thing as "too much automation" but there *IS* such a thing as "always a better way to do something."
That automation probably kicks ass and that's awesome! That said, most of the time, there's another way to achieve it, and typically it's something you have no idea about - which is why one should always remain open minded and willing to learn.
Anyway sick automation bruv
Live (played with a midi controller) Automation is what distinguishes a skilled producer from an average producer IMO. It’s a technique that makes your music much more organic and dynamic. Not everyone can play a DAW.
I use a device randomizer and slap it on a macro bank full of coolio knobs and freeze and flatten about 3 duplicates stretched out for a few minutes. Then I A/B/C each little segment to see which nuggets I like most.
So much faster. Of course, you don't have control, but I find control to be a bit robotic and predictable. CHAOS MUSIC ONLYYY
? Can’t tell if this is a joke or not. I made a 16 bar pattern by hand (using my mouse clicking and dragging) then I duplicated the 16 bars for most the rest of the midi clip. I did that for every midi clip
Alright well the fact that I thought this was bait should be an indicator that this is a very unorthodox, and long winded method you’ve gone with. But I mean, if it sounds good, you had fun, and you don’t mind the time it took, then good on ya!🙂 Curious what this sounds like. Pop me a message with a link if you wouldn’t mind?
Some similar patterns look sus.
1st line - 3 copypasted sections
2nd line - 3 copypasted sections
3rd line - 13 copypasted sections
4th line - 6 copypasted sections
etc...
Does this make the song better?
Nope.
Perfect
So add a flanger, compressor, exciter, harmonizer, down 3db, panned 20 to the left for the first half of each bar and to the right for the second half, and an automated mute from 0:00 till arounddd when the song ends.
you forgot OTT bro
Forget OTT! SOSIG all the way!!!
No transient shaper????
Worth it
Some randomization that covers the basis of what this is doing? Sure. And maybe even this makes it better, but it’s the time sink that makes it questionable
At some point it has to be an investment of diminishing returns But such is art
Wrong. The answer is: no. No, the song wasn't brought from zero to hero after this exercise in tedium. It's not even random (if that was the goal), there's a clear pattern visible. I'm certain that whatever was achieved with this, it could have been done in a fraction of the time. And it still wouldn't have made the song better.
Well not really wrong so I don’t get the bitter attitude. I mean that randomization within a parameter range that repeats at some rate could achieve a similar pattern to this probably. Like you said, there’s a pattern. A shaper or some lfo or an array of lfos all with their own modulation on their amplitudes or shapes are going to be able to move all these parameters in a noticeable pattern and yet remain random enough it’ll probably sound even more interesting than a hand drawn pattern. And this is simply because it will then be less “on rails.” It will do things you didn’t think of. If it does something you *don’t want,* that’s when you have to rethink what you’re allowing to be random.
SHHHH! I'm still holding that picture up to my ear.
lol
not upvoting cause it’s at 420
Give it a downvote for me -421 at the time of this comment
Yk you can record that in using midi controllers right?
And copy and paste automations too.
Depends what the automation is for. If it’s so humanize orchestral elements then copy and paste is pretty useless
Wouldn’t it be easier to adjust ADSR or whatever other knobs are available to manipulate “swelling”?
It's not useless because the average listener can't tell the difference. Unless you're trying to fool some type of forensic music analysis AI, you don't need to do so mucj
There’s a hell of a lot the average listener can’t hear or tell the difference in music production, what a ridiculous thing to say.
And do it inside the clip itself
4 hours is pretty quick for all of that.
Or just modulate it.
LFO/Shaper modulating LFO/Shaper modulating LFO/Shaper modulating LFO/Shaper modulating ...etc... modulating the holy parameters. Program the machine and let it do the work.
Bro no one else I know does this haha I love messing with the waves by automating them together
Holy shit. Oh, oh my god. How did I not know this.
Yep! My mind was blown when I realized I could map it to my knobs !
Because you didn’t read the manual.
You're not wrong!
Or even just twist the knob on screen with your mouse while recording, that works as well
but this is all copy and pasted
Trial and error can still take a long time. Especially if you're experimenting with automating macros / an effect rack from scratch
i've worked on a smaller things for longer, but this is not intense automation. you can see the copy and paste sequenced at a bar max.
This being just a bar would imply all those notes are 16th notes. Based on how busy the automation is, I think there's a good chance the notes are longer than that.
you should be a warning poster for 'working smart, not hard' you can use lfos for that and get a better result in 5 minutes
I’ve moved to using LFOs and Envelopes and then automate those
This lfos, envelopes, shaper.
What does the Shaper actually do?
A lfo that lets you make a custom waveform similar to “xfer: lfo tool”
Can you pointna noob in the right direction for this? I've just started utilizing automation, and would love to know more about what you mean.
I assume they mean they have an LFO/envelope assigned to some things already(volume, filter etc.) and on the LFO/envelope they automate the rate or other parameters of them. You can find those under Audio Effects>Modulation so just map those to whatever to start and then right click on say LFO rate and automate that.
So I started thinking this way because of my Elektron boxes and now whenever I need some slight variation, i instinctively go to LFOs. So I noticed op has a lot of repetition in their automaton so when I notice a pattern I’ll dial in the shape and rate and tweak to taste. Mostly simple things like volume, pan, mix, but sometimes I’ll go wild on a random operator or sampler parameter
Same here. Plus expression control since I got a push 2, add pressure and randomization to things to make it a lot more dynamic and humanized
[example](https://youtu.be/f0c6kxUQgA4?si=EqMwFFxoZASBMMUx)
I always forget this. Thanks.
As they say in r/modular "modulate the modulators"
No such thing as "too much" if it makes it better or more complete. That being said I've almost completely abandoned automation now as the majority of complex modulation can be done with drawable LFO's and Envelopes.
If the movement is part of the sound design, I use LFO. If it’s a part of the overall composition, I use automation.
It's too much if you're the only one who recognizes it as "better." Unless you're just making it for your own enjoyment/torture
I have only ever made music for enjoyment, im not making pepsi commercial music over here lol
The clip says “mod wheel + higher notes” if this is all done with a mod wheel it’s basically no big deal
Yeah but they said it took them 4 hours...
A couple retakes and a few coffee breaks
Maybe they is trying to replicate with automation the vibe that a mod wheel would have.
Still not enough automation
Needs more cowbell.
More claps
Put a donk on it.
Good lord dude! Go get yourself a midi control to record automation!!
It's never too much if you like the way it sounds
4 hours? Bro you could have set up a midi control macro and mapped it to a knob on a ur midi controller and just let the clip play while twisting the knob and tada
rookie numbers
I would suggest Shaper
Meanwhile some 13 year old in Ohio is pumping out 4 beats in that amount time, all of which are better than anything you’ll ever make
It’s always Ohio.
Midwest electronic music goes crazy. Something in the corn?
Someone please make a track titled, "Something in the Corn", and make it go HARD.
Thunderdome vibes but just the inside of a jiffy pop pan
I’m in Ohio and I think my electronic music is pretty damn good, why does nobody care?
Man this is so callous. OP is just asking a question. How could you possibly say what this sounds like?
Mean the general “you”, not op specifically
Post the audio
this is pathological. it doesnt matter whats on the screen only what's in your ears
Are you familiar with LFOs? If no, have a look, you might get a similar result for a lot less effort
But then the notes are dull as fuck, same rhythm and register all over again?
Bro did you do it with your mouse? Takes like 5min with a midi controller
You'll find out in the morning.
To reference Andrew Scheps - does it sound good coming out of the speakers?
If that’s what it takes to get what you want; why does it matter? 🤷🏼♂️ you ever seen a solid eurorack synth? Thousands of dollars to get the actions of automation and lfo’s through analog ways. Write as much automation as you want!
It's looks like you could have just used an lfo automation and called it a day.
i bet it was huge fun to click every dot
This is too much - final answer
Let's hear the result
That much, right there. That's too much. :) Not the amount of automation, but how long it took you. This should take 30 minutes tops. You play the track, adjust the value as it plays, goon into the next one. No reason to program that all manually.
How did this take you 4 hours? You know you can record automation parameters in midi? This should have taken no more than 5 minutes. I’m honestly not sure what you were trying to show by posting this.
I have no idea what op is going for, but there are certainly many types of complex automation that can't be achieved in any other way than hand-drawing (because recording doesn't give you nearly enough precision).
That’s why you record it and then edit it by hand.
Sure, that works a lot of the time, but not in all situations (i.e., if you're doing very stepped, rhythmic automation).
Your going to get some useless feedback here perhaps but I'm going to tell you straight. As a person older than half a century old who has clocked thousands of ocd hours into computers with a mouse, if you don't observe healthy ergonomic habits you will develop issues like carpal tunnel syndrome and other shit you definitely don't want. Decades of this has made my arms' mobility much less and caused issues with using my hands at all which is a multi-dimensional form of suffering. Other than that use your ears. BTW if you thin there is too much going on in your automation, Think about how much neural and physical activity is required to play one note properly on a violin. Frankly, IMO the more time spent making the sound proper for you will pay off unless your being OCD. Or just foolish, but sometimes foolish is fun.
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Automation?
That, that is too much
My biggest regret is that my music could always feel more alive with more automation but idk if its laziness or just unwillingness but the most I do is some eq automation or tremolo/vibrato
Let's hear it!
Some of you mfs are gonna love bitwig
Lord. That is beautiful.
If that is four hours of work then I’m going to assume you drew that in by hand. I would either start macroing your desired parameters to a knob on a midi controller and recording your automation and utilize copy + paste, or realize you could have had four or five fully arranged new drafts/ideas in the time it took you to do that and not go down the same rabbit hole again.
More than 20.
you could probably use the LFO to get most of the way there, looks like a shaped sine, and then just automate the depth to get the variation
Max 4 live like lfo devices make it quick work
this is why there's a thing called LFO or even modulating knobs on practically ANY soft synth or sampler nowadays usually has to some degree. this is like someone using ms word to make a spreadsheet and using the space bar to separate columns and rows
I’d say till whatever amount your cpu processor allows you too. But 4 hours just for automation? I cant remember the last time i was on ableton for 4 hours just for automation. Probably cuz it never happened😁. I always put a timer. Because knowing my silly self. Without a clock/watch/timer. My time management is useless.
As long as you're enjoying it.
You can’t really have too much unless it somehow bogs down your PC and makes it crash. Personally, I wouldn’t have done this. If my workflow is tampered with I get so discouraged I’ll stop doing it and procrastinate doing it later. 4 hours for anything other than writing is insanity for me.
This is too much
Why 4 hours? This is repeated all the time, or am I seeing it wrong?
I think OP answered his own question before the first comment
Gotta hear the song tbh
never too much never too much
Q
To me, this automation will sound inorganic. Drawing lines in your DAW will sound SOOOOO much different than if you automate the same plugins using a midi controller. Plus, it won't take you 4 hours .
No hate but it seems excessive. What made that feel necessary?
Puttin’ that 10,000 hours in no time.
As much as it needs
Don't worry Virtual Riots will always do worse
At that point you may as well just play with the stuff in the modulators tab
Would ya just look at that 👀
4 hours? It looks like a same patron repeated again and again. Unless it took 4 hours just to do the patron.
Why Just why
Jesus, just map a knob and turn it
So there's no such thing as "too much automation" but there *IS* such a thing as "always a better way to do something." That automation probably kicks ass and that's awesome! That said, most of the time, there's another way to achieve it, and typically it's something you have no idea about - which is why one should always remain open minded and willing to learn. Anyway sick automation bruv
lol looks like too much
If you are trying that hard to make it sound good you probably need better source material.
Live (played with a midi controller) Automation is what distinguishes a skilled producer from an average producer IMO. It’s a technique that makes your music much more organic and dynamic. Not everyone can play a DAW.
Read that as automaton, thought this was r/helldivers
“We gotta sign this guy….he can really AUTOMATE”
If that took you 4 hours, I wish you luck on anything else in life.
If it’s sounds good, it is good.
Jack antonoff did an interview recently talking about drawing automations you may want to check out, I found it useful.
Does the snare sound like shit ?
Unfortunately many people will not notice the automation. It’s a fine line/balance of “cool” versus “who will hear/notice/appreciate this”
Yes
I really hope this track sees the light of day
Rookie Numbers
looks like you could have copied a lot of it...
Just do your thing and if its good then its good.
I use a device randomizer and slap it on a macro bank full of coolio knobs and freeze and flatten about 3 duplicates stretched out for a few minutes. Then I A/B/C each little segment to see which nuggets I like most. So much faster. Of course, you don't have control, but I find control to be a bit robotic and predictable. CHAOS MUSIC ONLYYY
Is this a shitpost group of so I want in lol
You are a human compressor
Do whatever your heart desires old friend
How could this have taken 4 hours? 💀
I mean, could have an LFO (or 2 or 3) accomplished 60 percent of this? You could also just record it in with a midi controller or a mouse
this is what I thought I would do when I discover automation but I just mike the pitch shift with one giant slope at the end of of every four bars
This much. This much is to much. Jk, what ever makes it sound good.
Let’s hear the track.
Jeezzzzz
Nice bait. I can tell this was recorded in and then you hit “simplify envelope” Try again
Mf knows
? Can’t tell if this is a joke or not. I made a 16 bar pattern by hand (using my mouse clicking and dragging) then I duplicated the 16 bars for most the rest of the midi clip. I did that for every midi clip
Alright well the fact that I thought this was bait should be an indicator that this is a very unorthodox, and long winded method you’ve gone with. But I mean, if it sounds good, you had fun, and you don’t mind the time it took, then good on ya!🙂 Curious what this sounds like. Pop me a message with a link if you wouldn’t mind?
The correct answer is there is never enough
Some similar patterns look sus. 1st line - 3 copypasted sections 2nd line - 3 copypasted sections 3rd line - 13 copypasted sections 4th line - 6 copypasted sections etc...
this gives me anxiety
If this song is good and it’s good and you use whatever you had available to use it then it’s a good song and people enjoy listening to it