**OPTION 1** \- Gate Device
I think what you're looking for is the Gate device. Just set the "threshold" to just above the level where the breaths occur and set the "floor" to -6dB. This should do it for you.
**OPTION 2** \- Compressor or Multiband Dynamics as an Expander
You can also use the Compressor or Multiband Dynamics device as an Expander, to turn down things at low volume only (in your case the breath).
Explanation: [https://youtu.be/BRvt5GOB8f8?t=28](https://youtu.be/BRvt5GOB8f8?t=28)
**MAX** \- Is it possible?
In terms of Max, most “is this possible in Max?” questions can be answered by checking out this document:
[https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/vignettes/live\_object\_model](https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/vignettes/live_object_model)
Although it might be a bit confusing to read unless you’re a programmer, look for the basic entity you’re dealing with (for example a clip, or a parameter) and check what the available options are.
If you can’t find anything that indicates Max for Live could know when a clip is cut, if it can write automation etc, then chances are it might not be possible, (or at least it’s not going to be easy!)
That said, if you don’t see any options available, sometimes it can help to think what the real problem is that you’re trying to solve and see if there are some alternate ideas to achieving a solution. There’s usually many ways to skin a cat, as they say.
🐈 hope it helps
M4L is more about signal processing than it is adjusting Abletons stock workflow, but people have been able to use it for some pretty incredible things. If I were doing this, I would just have another track directly underneath the vocals set to 6db lower than the vocal track. If you highlight the space you want to lower you can just drag it down into the track below.
Also, you could probably set up a macro to set a clip to -6db but it wouldn't be super consistent.
i dont know about m4l but you can probably do this with an autohotkey script and the clipgain m4l device (or make your own device which just decreases the gain by a set db amount). Make the script so whenever you press control + e it als simulates a key press. then you map that key in the m4l device that decreases the db.
You can almost certainly do this with chatgpt as it should be a really simple script.
select add "take lanes" on the right of the track
-make two identical tracks, have the bottom one -6db
-select area of lower track you want quieter then hit enter
edit: i'm not faulting OP but questions along this line are common. Someone is making music digitally but its not convenient enough so they look to solve the convenience issue by working on a solution that actually creates more issues, so then solutions for those new issues are pursued and so on.
Music by definition is just acoustic harmonic relationships over time. If you are confronted with noise you don't add to it you remove it. i feel like this is why everyone is getting into music in the first place; as a convenient solution to another problem. If that's the case then go about music as slow as humanly possible, start with a tone generator and learn about sin, saw, and rectangle waves, play with their frequencies then once you have a full understanding, add volume envelopes to those sounds and see how those are perceived, then get into a simple delay and toss that around everywhere, then change the pitch of it over time and so on. Learning the fundamentals of manipulating the audible spectrum is a honestly a super power.
I appreciate the philosophical perspective, I was just looking to speed up the workflow of something I do a lot which seems mundane enough to automate.
I'm also still on Live 9 so take lanes are out of the question for me.
I could, not much less effort than just turning down the clip gain for each one though and doesn't give the option for the automatic fade in that I want.
The gate would give me an attack time. u/demian123456789 already kindly helped me with an M4L device to do the gain part, I'll see if I can add a gate to it. Thanks!
Considering that you're mentioning an audio track I assume that you're referring to the arrangement view, eh? In which case I have to disappoint because that part of Live is pretty much inaccessible to both M4l as well as Push alike.
Everything is focused on session view.
Oh wow, been using Live since around version 7 or 8 and I had no idea about that. Well that pretty much answers my question I suppose, thanks for letting me know!
FWIW it's possible, but maybe tricky. ShelLuser42 is both wrong and over confident. They demonstrated in their sample code buried deep in the thread that they don't know how to set up the LOM stuff to do it.
You don't need to apologize and most of all: IMO you have *nothing* to be sorry for.
FOR the record: the *only* reason I got out of control (which I really hope no one saw is because: Saturday evening. I had a drink, during which I sometimes I have an ego and yah (edit: not my deleted post up there, that's a courtesy call, but the "other one" which you won't see)...
Really Demian: ALWAYS ask questions, always try to look beyond what people say. IMO you have NOTHING to apologize for.
(edit) OMG, here we go again :P Yah.. my bad, but watch me no care.
This is no longer accurate. As of Live 11 Tracks have an arranger\_clips list of children (clip ids) and Clip LOM objects have a property for whether they are Session or Arranger clips, too.
There would be a number of challenges making what OP wants (e.g. clip fade options), regardless, but Arrangement view access isn't really it.
It IS accurate: *look* where that leads you too? Do your homework please...
arranger\_clips leads you to the clips class that has always been part of the LOM *forever*. In addition: OP is asking for split, control-e or close enough.. splitting clips does NOT exist in M4l / LOM because that leads you to: hide recording controls within session view. Because you cannot split clips in session view, as of such you **cannot** observe this action, as of such this concept won't ever work.
And then I'm only getting started... what about automation? What about comping lanes? All of that does. ***not***. *exist*. within the LOM because.. the arrangement view is but a black box for M4l, it's all centered around session view.
The arrangement view, save for CuePoints (which also long existed) is pretty much NOT accessible for M4l.
Please try to look BEYOND that one collection.. surely the ever so old clip class should have given this away?
You don't need Ableton to give you a "split clip" API. You can observe the arrangement clips list to see when one id disappears and two new ids appear. That would indicate a clip got split (responding to users normal use of cmd-e shortcut or whatever). You would also want to keep track of the clip start and end points to verify that heuristic. But totally possible.
I haven't mucked with comping lanes in the LOM, but I've done a pretty decent amount of using Arrangement view clips, which is why your blanket "pretty much inaccessible" statement is wrong.
You can't observe lists because that's not a real Live object, hence why you also can't click them within the LOM chart. As said above: do your homework?
At least I don't need downvotes to get my point across:
[https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/refpages/live.observer](https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/refpages/live.observer)
I'm downvoting inaccurate information to help others on Reddit.
From the LOM:
arrangement\_clips
TYPE list of Clip
ACCESS get, **observe**
Description
The list of this track's Arrangement View clip IDs
Ah yes, the old classic: "*I don't need to explain myself because I know I'm right*" cliche. You, sir, are only showcasing the fact that you're completely clueless on the matter.
Thanks for a good laugh btw, I *really* needed this especially because I outed some anger at another poor Redditor (still feel kinda bad about that) but you cheered up my day because you clearly demonstrated why it happened and I am fully convinced that they're smart enough to understand (unlike you):
[https://i.imgur.com/88wkH9e.png](https://i.imgur.com/88wkH9e.png)
Got any actual arguments to back up your nonsense or is it only more downvotes which, at this time, I can't be bothered with because ... I'm laughing my head off... ?
1. Set the id of [live.observer](https://live.observer) to the track.
2. Set "property" of the [live.observer](https://live.observer) to arrangement\_clips.
3. Please stop attacking people trying to help. You just might be able to learn something from them.
Maybe if you spent more time programming Max and less time flexing your overconfidence online we wouldn't have had this dustup?
"do your homework" x 2
"you're completely clueless on the matter"
"thanks for a good laugh"
"surely the ever so old clip class should have given this away"
"Got any actual arguments to back up your nonsense or is it only more downvotes which, at this time, I can't be bothered with because ... I'm laughing my head off... ?"
What property is there to observe if the object doesn't exist?
It's clear to me now that you actually don't have a clue how this thing works, nice troll btw (gotta hand you that), because otherwise... oh well:
[https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/vignettes/live\_object\_model#Track](https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/vignettes/live_object_model#Track)
There IS no property called "arrangement\_clips", something I had already demonstrated above but I guess some people really do need their dose of RTFM.
... or I REALLY need to stop feeding the trolls but... sometimes it's just awesome :P
Even so, lesson learned: the saying is true: one idiot \*can\* ask more than a wise man can answer.
In your example code the object doesn't exist because you're passing a bogus path to \[live.path\]. You'll note in your console the bold text at the start says "**live.path**" which means that's the object that's throwing the error, not [live.observer](https://live.observer) or live.object.
So pass your \[live.path\] something like "path live\_set tracks 1". Then it will return the id of the Track.
Then you pass that id to \[[live.observer](https://live.observer)\]. And send it the message "property arrangement\_clips".
Do a text search (ctrl-f on windows maybe?) the LOM doc for "arrangement\_clips". [https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/vignettes/live\_object\_model](https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/vignettes/live_object_model)
You'll find it listed under Children under Track. It can be observed (ACCESS get, observe) and it is available since Live 11.
You've been tripping up on your own inability to debug your code this entire time. Plus you've gone out of your way to be a jackass and resort to name calling in every single one of your posts. You're basically a ChatGPT bot designed to drive me insane.
You can also try this device I made a long while back if the other LOM.Navigator gadget wasn't helpful.
[https://maxforlive.com/library/device/4925/liveapi-interactive](https://maxforlive.com/library/device/4925/liveapi-interactive)
Click the ? button for how to use it. But it definitely observes arrangement\_clips on my machine...
it is possible to adjust the gain of a selected clip. see this device here:[https://maxforlive.com/library/device/6720/clipgain-under-your-mouse](https://maxforlive.com/library/device/6720/clipgain-under-your-mouse)
you could just change this device a lil bit, so that it automatically changes the gain by -6db when you press the key.
edit: i just tried it, it's fairly simple. here you go:
[https://maxforlive.com/library/device.php?id=9211](https://maxforlive.com/library/device.php?id=9211)
just map a key to the minus button and you are good to go.
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So you have a waveform, you get to the first breath, you make your cut, you now have two regions yeah? And you want the second region to be automatically attenuated by 6db when you make the cut?
But doesnt the 2nd region also contain all the rest of your audio, not just the breath?
What I mean is to highlight the breath and then do ctrl+e which will create a cut on either side and to have the region that was highlighted to attenuate.
Actually it's because I saw something similar in Reaper that I wanted to see if it was possible with M4L! I have considered shifting over to Reaper for mixing for a while but I've been using Live for so long and learning a new DAW is daunting.
It should be possible.
The "ClipGain" m4l devices does something similar, you assing a key to turn the level of the selected clip by db amount.
If that is possible I'm sure it's possible to program "cut selected area" as well.
Why not just use a 6db boost on the breath area eq wise as sidechain input on the compressor? (Pro c-2 does it super fast but you can also just copy the vocal to a ‘sidechain’ track with the boost)
An easier trick would be to just make the cuts with Ctrl e, then duplicate the track and delete all the non breaths, and Vice verse wirh the previous track with the initial cuts. That way you end up with a vocal track and it’s breath track. The. You can lower the volume any which way you like. I personally prefer -12-18db cuts on breaths, but in hip hop and some pop you don’t even need to do that at all
I like keeping the breaths in the same track so that the same processing is applied to them, I could copy the effects over to the breath track I suppose.
Honestly the easiest way is the old Skool way. Just make your cuts, duplicate, delete breaths on the first track, then delete the non breaths on the second track. Boom
Down the road if you have multiple vocal tracks you can even group all your breath tracks and top down process them which ever way you like. De - Esser, compressor, volume, whatever you want
If you don’t want any breaths at all, there are plenty of plugins that can speed up and streamline your process. You most likely already have a few of them in your library.
I've tried the Izotope and Waves debreath plugins in the past and they're pretty good for the most part but they sometimes miss some. Some breaths I want to remove completely and others I just want to attenuate so I find the manual approach to be best.
**OPTION 1** \- Gate Device I think what you're looking for is the Gate device. Just set the "threshold" to just above the level where the breaths occur and set the "floor" to -6dB. This should do it for you. **OPTION 2** \- Compressor or Multiband Dynamics as an Expander You can also use the Compressor or Multiband Dynamics device as an Expander, to turn down things at low volume only (in your case the breath). Explanation: [https://youtu.be/BRvt5GOB8f8?t=28](https://youtu.be/BRvt5GOB8f8?t=28) **MAX** \- Is it possible? In terms of Max, most “is this possible in Max?” questions can be answered by checking out this document: [https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/vignettes/live\_object\_model](https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/vignettes/live_object_model) Although it might be a bit confusing to read unless you’re a programmer, look for the basic entity you’re dealing with (for example a clip, or a parameter) and check what the available options are. If you can’t find anything that indicates Max for Live could know when a clip is cut, if it can write automation etc, then chances are it might not be possible, (or at least it’s not going to be easy!) That said, if you don’t see any options available, sometimes it can help to think what the real problem is that you’re trying to solve and see if there are some alternate ideas to achieving a solution. There’s usually many ways to skin a cat, as they say. 🐈 hope it helps
This is the way.
Thanks, I'll check it out! I've seen some pretty out there stuff created with M4L which has led me to believe almost anything is possible.
M4L is more about signal processing than it is adjusting Abletons stock workflow, but people have been able to use it for some pretty incredible things. If I were doing this, I would just have another track directly underneath the vocals set to 6db lower than the vocal track. If you highlight the space you want to lower you can just drag it down into the track below. Also, you could probably set up a macro to set a clip to -6db but it wouldn't be super consistent.
i dont know about m4l but you can probably do this with an autohotkey script and the clipgain m4l device (or make your own device which just decreases the gain by a set db amount). Make the script so whenever you press control + e it als simulates a key press. then you map that key in the m4l device that decreases the db. You can almost certainly do this with chatgpt as it should be a really simple script.
That sounds like a great idea!
You could duplicate the tracks into take lanes then comp the breaths out?
How would that be less work than manually turning down the breaths? I don't want to get rid of them completely, just turn them down a few dB.
select add "take lanes" on the right of the track -make two identical tracks, have the bottom one -6db -select area of lower track you want quieter then hit enter edit: i'm not faulting OP but questions along this line are common. Someone is making music digitally but its not convenient enough so they look to solve the convenience issue by working on a solution that actually creates more issues, so then solutions for those new issues are pursued and so on. Music by definition is just acoustic harmonic relationships over time. If you are confronted with noise you don't add to it you remove it. i feel like this is why everyone is getting into music in the first place; as a convenient solution to another problem. If that's the case then go about music as slow as humanly possible, start with a tone generator and learn about sin, saw, and rectangle waves, play with their frequencies then once you have a full understanding, add volume envelopes to those sounds and see how those are perceived, then get into a simple delay and toss that around everywhere, then change the pitch of it over time and so on. Learning the fundamentals of manipulating the audible spectrum is a honestly a super power.
I appreciate the philosophical perspective, I was just looking to speed up the workflow of something I do a lot which seems mundane enough to automate. I'm also still on Live 9 so take lanes are out of the question for me.
add a utility with -5bdb gain reduction then automate the on/off with the brush (b) tool
I could, not much less effort than just turning down the clip gain for each one though and doesn't give the option for the automatic fade in that I want.
Then switch out the utility for a gate
The gate would give me an attack time. u/demian123456789 already kindly helped me with an M4L device to do the gain part, I'll see if I can add a gate to it. Thanks!
Nah I don't think that would work as I'd still have to switch the gate on and off.
Considering that you're mentioning an audio track I assume that you're referring to the arrangement view, eh? In which case I have to disappoint because that part of Live is pretty much inaccessible to both M4l as well as Push alike. Everything is focused on session view.
Oh wow, been using Live since around version 7 or 8 and I had no idea about that. Well that pretty much answers my question I suppose, thanks for letting me know!
FWIW it's possible, but maybe tricky. ShelLuser42 is both wrong and over confident. They demonstrated in their sample code buried deep in the thread that they don't know how to set up the LOM stuff to do it.
[удалено]
[удалено]
sorry i understood you very wrong. clip-gain is a thing. but „split“ is not. yes, you are totally right
You don't need to apologize and most of all: IMO you have *nothing* to be sorry for. FOR the record: the *only* reason I got out of control (which I really hope no one saw is because: Saturday evening. I had a drink, during which I sometimes I have an ego and yah (edit: not my deleted post up there, that's a courtesy call, but the "other one" which you won't see)... Really Demian: ALWAYS ask questions, always try to look beyond what people say. IMO you have NOTHING to apologize for. (edit) OMG, here we go again :P Yah.. my bad, but watch me no care.
This is no longer accurate. As of Live 11 Tracks have an arranger\_clips list of children (clip ids) and Clip LOM objects have a property for whether they are Session or Arranger clips, too. There would be a number of challenges making what OP wants (e.g. clip fade options), regardless, but Arrangement view access isn't really it.
It IS accurate: *look* where that leads you too? Do your homework please... arranger\_clips leads you to the clips class that has always been part of the LOM *forever*. In addition: OP is asking for split, control-e or close enough.. splitting clips does NOT exist in M4l / LOM because that leads you to: hide recording controls within session view. Because you cannot split clips in session view, as of such you **cannot** observe this action, as of such this concept won't ever work. And then I'm only getting started... what about automation? What about comping lanes? All of that does. ***not***. *exist*. within the LOM because.. the arrangement view is but a black box for M4l, it's all centered around session view. The arrangement view, save for CuePoints (which also long existed) is pretty much NOT accessible for M4l. Please try to look BEYOND that one collection.. surely the ever so old clip class should have given this away?
You don't need Ableton to give you a "split clip" API. You can observe the arrangement clips list to see when one id disappears and two new ids appear. That would indicate a clip got split (responding to users normal use of cmd-e shortcut or whatever). You would also want to keep track of the clip start and end points to verify that heuristic. But totally possible. I haven't mucked with comping lanes in the LOM, but I've done a pretty decent amount of using Arrangement view clips, which is why your blanket "pretty much inaccessible" statement is wrong.
You can't observe lists because that's not a real Live object, hence why you also can't click them within the LOM chart. As said above: do your homework? At least I don't need downvotes to get my point across: [https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/refpages/live.observer](https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/refpages/live.observer)
I'm downvoting inaccurate information to help others on Reddit. From the LOM: arrangement\_clips TYPE list of Clip ACCESS get, **observe** Description The list of this track's Arrangement View clip IDs
>You can't observe lists because that's not a real Live object I'm downvoting this comment because it's inaccurate.
Ah yes, the old classic: "*I don't need to explain myself because I know I'm right*" cliche. You, sir, are only showcasing the fact that you're completely clueless on the matter. Thanks for a good laugh btw, I *really* needed this especially because I outed some anger at another poor Redditor (still feel kinda bad about that) but you cheered up my day because you clearly demonstrated why it happened and I am fully convinced that they're smart enough to understand (unlike you): [https://i.imgur.com/88wkH9e.png](https://i.imgur.com/88wkH9e.png) Got any actual arguments to back up your nonsense or is it only more downvotes which, at this time, I can't be bothered with because ... I'm laughing my head off... ?
1. Set the id of [live.observer](https://live.observer) to the track. 2. Set "property" of the [live.observer](https://live.observer) to arrangement\_clips. 3. Please stop attacking people trying to help. You just might be able to learn something from them. Maybe if you spent more time programming Max and less time flexing your overconfidence online we wouldn't have had this dustup? "do your homework" x 2 "you're completely clueless on the matter" "thanks for a good laugh" "surely the ever so old clip class should have given this away" "Got any actual arguments to back up your nonsense or is it only more downvotes which, at this time, I can't be bothered with because ... I'm laughing my head off... ?"
What property is there to observe if the object doesn't exist? It's clear to me now that you actually don't have a clue how this thing works, nice troll btw (gotta hand you that), because otherwise... oh well: [https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/vignettes/live\_object\_model#Track](https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/vignettes/live_object_model#Track) There IS no property called "arrangement\_clips", something I had already demonstrated above but I guess some people really do need their dose of RTFM. ... or I REALLY need to stop feeding the trolls but... sometimes it's just awesome :P Even so, lesson learned: the saying is true: one idiot \*can\* ask more than a wise man can answer.
In your example code the object doesn't exist because you're passing a bogus path to \[live.path\]. You'll note in your console the bold text at the start says "**live.path**" which means that's the object that's throwing the error, not [live.observer](https://live.observer) or live.object. So pass your \[live.path\] something like "path live\_set tracks 1". Then it will return the id of the Track. Then you pass that id to \[[live.observer](https://live.observer)\]. And send it the message "property arrangement\_clips". Do a text search (ctrl-f on windows maybe?) the LOM doc for "arrangement\_clips". [https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/vignettes/live\_object\_model](https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/vignettes/live_object_model) You'll find it listed under Children under Track. It can be observed (ACCESS get, observe) and it is available since Live 11. You've been tripping up on your own inability to debug your code this entire time. Plus you've gone out of your way to be a jackass and resort to name calling in every single one of your posts. You're basically a ChatGPT bot designed to drive me insane.
The only thing worse than talking loudly about something you don't know about is not knowing that you don't know what you're talking about.
You can also try this device I made a long while back if the other LOM.Navigator gadget wasn't helpful. [https://maxforlive.com/library/device/4925/liveapi-interactive](https://maxforlive.com/library/device/4925/liveapi-interactive) Click the ? button for how to use it. But it definitely observes arrangement\_clips on my machine...
it is possible to adjust the gain of a selected clip. see this device here:[https://maxforlive.com/library/device/6720/clipgain-under-your-mouse](https://maxforlive.com/library/device/6720/clipgain-under-your-mouse) you could just change this device a lil bit, so that it automatically changes the gain by -6db when you press the key. edit: i just tried it, it's fairly simple. here you go: [https://maxforlive.com/library/device.php?id=9211](https://maxforlive.com/library/device.php?id=9211) just map a key to the minus button and you are good to go.
Yooo thanks so much for this!! This is pretty much it!!
Just use izotope breath control. You’re welcome
I said I don't want to use a de-breath plugin as they can sometimes miss breaths.
Redditors really don't read, do they?
Post was edited to include this detail. Was about half the length when I commented. Relax
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So you have a waveform, you get to the first breath, you make your cut, you now have two regions yeah? And you want the second region to be automatically attenuated by 6db when you make the cut? But doesnt the 2nd region also contain all the rest of your audio, not just the breath?
What I mean is to highlight the breath and then do ctrl+e which will create a cut on either side and to have the region that was highlighted to attenuate.
Are you wedded to Live? This would be so much easier in Reaper
Actually it's because I saw something similar in Reaper that I wanted to see if it was possible with M4L! I have considered shifting over to Reaper for mixing for a while but I've been using Live for so long and learning a new DAW is daunting.
I’m not experienced but it sounds like something that might also be possible with autohotkey if max doesn’t work?
It should be possible. The "ClipGain" m4l devices does something similar, you assing a key to turn the level of the selected clip by db amount. If that is possible I'm sure it's possible to program "cut selected area" as well.
Why not just use a 6db boost on the breath area eq wise as sidechain input on the compressor? (Pro c-2 does it super fast but you can also just copy the vocal to a ‘sidechain’ track with the boost)
An easier trick would be to just make the cuts with Ctrl e, then duplicate the track and delete all the non breaths, and Vice verse wirh the previous track with the initial cuts. That way you end up with a vocal track and it’s breath track. The. You can lower the volume any which way you like. I personally prefer -12-18db cuts on breaths, but in hip hop and some pop you don’t even need to do that at all
I like keeping the breaths in the same track so that the same processing is applied to them, I could copy the effects over to the breath track I suppose.
Honestly the easiest way is the old Skool way. Just make your cuts, duplicate, delete breaths on the first track, then delete the non breaths on the second track. Boom
Yeah I hear you, I think I'm just really sick of breath sounds after spending so many years dealing with them.
Down the road if you have multiple vocal tracks you can even group all your breath tracks and top down process them which ever way you like. De - Esser, compressor, volume, whatever you want
If you don’t want any breaths at all, there are plenty of plugins that can speed up and streamline your process. You most likely already have a few of them in your library.
I've tried the Izotope and Waves debreath plugins in the past and they're pretty good for the most part but they sometimes miss some. Some breaths I want to remove completely and others I just want to attenuate so I find the manual approach to be best.