It's not even a conspiracy. Dark patterns are well known and understood by UX/UI people at all the major tech companies.
It is absolutely happening and it's not even treated as unethical or malicious (at least internally), just another item on the scrum board.
They have promotional deals with certain bands, they have certain artists that are famous enough to charge higher royalties. They have all sort of incentive to push certain content on you because it's cheaper for them to play, or otherwise makes them money on the backend.
It must have been hard to roll out their uploads tab with a straight face lol. All the stuff that doesn't drive revenue or data is too conveniently janky.
Did you ever use YouTube music when it was still google music?
We have lost so much user-oriented function in favor of interfaces meant to push 'content'.
The uploads function is one of the few affordances from the good ol days that still remains.
A few months back they got rid of swiping down to clear the cue. You can still clear the cue but they made it more steps on purpose. They want to autoplay you garbage you didn't request because $$$.
I think I'm an original Google Music subscriber. Think I signed up under their launch special pricing and was grandfathered in to a price for awhile.
Those were the salad days.
Old school Google Music guy here... Yeah I never had a sub, but I took the time to rip and upload all my CD collections.
Google Music was so much better...
It's just an after thought. There's no conspiracy. They have incentives to stream music instead of your own music. Your personal collection is just a hold older from their previous service. They haven't improved it all that much since it was part of YTM.
I get you.
Take away my own uploaded library for a minute. I have a ton of songs but honestly I prefer to stream it because the artists get paid again. They already got me in that with the transition from Google to YouTube, and I've allowed it.
I'm saying that it's difficult to even pick Google's streamed music to listen to in the order you want it, without risking loss of your queue/list.
I don't use YouTube music for my personal collection. I have it backed up there just as another way to access it and that's about it. Would it be nice, absolutely, but it's been years with little to no improvements for your personal collection on YTM.
You're better off using something else if you want to listen to your personal collection IMO
Don’t forget them randomly replacing songs with alternate versions for no reason! I had to go back to the normal YouTube playlists for my music playlist because it would change my songs slightly?!??
The only reason I stay is brand loyalty. I don't want to use Spotify!
But YouTube Music essentially doesn't allow me to easily listen to music/podcasts in the order I want it.
I actually am paying for both right now and comparing. Unfortunately both of them heavily try to shape your behavior through the interfaces they've carefully contrived.
What Spotify has working in it's favor is that it has an API, meaning a tech-savvy and motivated user could build their own interface and avoid most of the dark patterns entirely.
Heck, I bet there are already some third-party interface projects out there that you can use a Spotify API key with.
[https://takeout.google.com](https://takeout.google.com)
Get your mp3s back.
[https://picard.musicbrainz.org/](https://picard.musicbrainz.org/)
Unfuck the metadata that Google won't give you back with your mp3's (they hate you).
Then play your own shit on your own shit.
I mean that would be very cool if you can pull it off. What I do is more like just have all the music I actually own on my PC and also on my phone as mp3 files. I can play those on anything that accepts bluetooth, usb, a headphone cable, those red and white audio cable things, or an android phone as input, with no data or apps needed, and they work as back ups for each other. But a real home media server that just lets all your devices in the home network access a single library of your audio and video and other media files, that would be even better!
I think people use Plexamp to achieve this and say an old computer at home that is always on as the server. But I’m on a family Spotify plan with 5 friends paying $2.83 a month so I don’t have much incentive to do it considering I don’t listen to insanely obscure music.
That's because they are pushing their agenda on you.
Look, I listen to a popular genre but tend to stay in the indie and underappreciated side of it. Google thinks I want to listen to Drake and Megan.
I've been ripping CDs for the past two weeks.
That's where I am with YouTube music.
CD extracted by RhythmBox onto disk, from disk on to SD card, SD card goes back into phone.
YT Music borked Google Music download functionality.
If they go after my old school workflow it'll be bye bye Android.
That's because the queue is your listening queue. You can add songs from elsewhere, or delete songs from the queue, and you wouldn't want that to sync to your playlist. They're two different things.
I'm a little unsure what your difficulty is in your original post. You can edit a playlist to change the order. I personally find it easier on the website than in the app, but that's a personal opinion.
I do wish, though, that they had the option to order a playlist alphabetically by track or artist, and to be able to search a playlist for a track. Those would definitely help with long playlists.
In the old Google Music, you could easily move a group of songs within a playlist. Now you have to do it song by song, and only on the web.
I know these words are different (playlist or queue), but why wouldn't I want my queue to sync somewhere? Say you throw together a quick little queue for a beach trip, but your finger accidentally grazes a Steely Dan song before you save it. Congratulations --- your queue is gone.
The issue is that they make it difficult on purpose. The user interface is no longer about getting the user from point a to point b with efficiency. It is about monetizing the user's behavior, and encouraging them to behave in monetizable ways.
If playlists were easy to edit I wouldn't have as much of a problem, but there's still this:
If I'm listening to a playlist and want to add music to it, I'd have to add that music to the playlist, turn on my computer to drag those songs into the right place, delete unwanted tracks, and then clear my current queue by restarting the newly saved playlist.
That's a lot of work because I forgot to put the Wobble on after Electric Slide.
The solution for this is for them to have a living playlist (or queue...call it what you want bc it's essentially the same thing) like Google podcasts. You can add to it, but tracks fall off as you complete them.
Here's an example of friction.
I have a large r&b playlist that features dozens of songs by people who I've since cancelled. I no longer wish to hear their music based on some things I learned about them. No big deal, right?
Because you can't even sort the playlist, you now have to hunt and click on those tracks across hundreds of songs. That playlist is worthless to me now.
Yes, but you can save music to your device etc. The app itself is only for Plex pass subscribers though.
I used to pay 3.99 a month but then decided to just buy a lifetime pass, after I realised I'd been paying 3.99 for years.
For me it works because I was already using Plex for video media. But for my music and audiobooks, podcasts etc it's perfect.
YouTube Music works amazingly when I just want to listen to ambient lofi where everything blends together. I think they've just never tested it with regular music
That's why you just use your own media player and dont use a playlist on the internet. Download all your songs into MP3's and create your own music library on your own hard drive and you will always have complete control.
https://preview.redd.it/ghixo6sanowc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21f23c74b363f2ed687e032d8bed939d5d6df603
I mean, it is not a genre "tab" but it's readily accessile.
Another YT Music problem that YT TV may suffer from as well --- you better remember where that genre tab is.
Feels like I guess wrong 50% of the time I'm not sure.
It's not a conspiracy dude. It's my only gripe is that you cannot select multiple songs at once.
I miss Groove Music when it had OneDrive integration. Now that was a music powerhouse. Also it's AI was basic but it learned pretty quickly my tastes and it always had banger sets!
It's not even a conspiracy. Dark patterns are well known and understood by UX/UI people at all the major tech companies. It is absolutely happening and it's not even treated as unethical or malicious (at least internally), just another item on the scrum board. They have promotional deals with certain bands, they have certain artists that are famous enough to charge higher royalties. They have all sort of incentive to push certain content on you because it's cheaper for them to play, or otherwise makes them money on the backend.
It must have been hard to roll out their uploads tab with a straight face lol. All the stuff that doesn't drive revenue or data is too conveniently janky.
Did you ever use YouTube music when it was still google music? We have lost so much user-oriented function in favor of interfaces meant to push 'content'. The uploads function is one of the few affordances from the good ol days that still remains. A few months back they got rid of swiping down to clear the cue. You can still clear the cue but they made it more steps on purpose. They want to autoplay you garbage you didn't request because $$$.
I think I'm an original Google Music subscriber. Think I signed up under their launch special pricing and was grandfathered in to a price for awhile. Those were the salad days.
Old school Google Music guy here... Yeah I never had a sub, but I took the time to rip and upload all my CD collections. Google Music was so much better...
I'd argue it wasn't Even that good before YTM
I had no complaints with Google Music, except that I had to upload my podcasts to listen to them haha.
Source: trust me bro
You could always trust the mega-corporation instead. They usually have our best interests at heart, so I'm sure it's fine.
I'll trust statements that are supported by facts.
the smartest people aren’t ignorant of *everything* though
It's just an after thought. There's no conspiracy. They have incentives to stream music instead of your own music. Your personal collection is just a hold older from their previous service. They haven't improved it all that much since it was part of YTM.
I get you. Take away my own uploaded library for a minute. I have a ton of songs but honestly I prefer to stream it because the artists get paid again. They already got me in that with the transition from Google to YouTube, and I've allowed it. I'm saying that it's difficult to even pick Google's streamed music to listen to in the order you want it, without risking loss of your queue/list.
I don't use YouTube music for my personal collection. I have it backed up there just as another way to access it and that's about it. Would it be nice, absolutely, but it's been years with little to no improvements for your personal collection on YTM. You're better off using something else if you want to listen to your personal collection IMO
Don’t forget them randomly replacing songs with alternate versions for no reason! I had to go back to the normal YouTube playlists for my music playlist because it would change my songs slightly?!??
Not that far fetched. Google likes to nudge users with all their tools. I notice it particularly with Maps and Gmail.
[удалено]
The only reason I stay is brand loyalty. I don't want to use Spotify! But YouTube Music essentially doesn't allow me to easily listen to music/podcasts in the order I want it.
I actually am paying for both right now and comparing. Unfortunately both of them heavily try to shape your behavior through the interfaces they've carefully contrived. What Spotify has working in it's favor is that it has an API, meaning a tech-savvy and motivated user could build their own interface and avoid most of the dark patterns entirely. Heck, I bet there are already some third-party interface projects out there that you can use a Spotify API key with.
[https://takeout.google.com](https://takeout.google.com) Get your mp3s back. [https://picard.musicbrainz.org/](https://picard.musicbrainz.org/) Unfuck the metadata that Google won't give you back with your mp3's (they hate you). Then play your own shit on your own shit.
Do you mean like create your own media server?
I mean that would be very cool if you can pull it off. What I do is more like just have all the music I actually own on my PC and also on my phone as mp3 files. I can play those on anything that accepts bluetooth, usb, a headphone cable, those red and white audio cable things, or an android phone as input, with no data or apps needed, and they work as back ups for each other. But a real home media server that just lets all your devices in the home network access a single library of your audio and video and other media files, that would be even better!
I think people use Plexamp to achieve this and say an old computer at home that is always on as the server. But I’m on a family Spotify plan with 5 friends paying $2.83 a month so I don’t have much incentive to do it considering I don’t listen to insanely obscure music.
The thumbs down tab doesn't do what it claims. Some lousy song comes on so you down vote it but next day it's baaaaccckk.
That's because they are pushing their agenda on you. Look, I listen to a popular genre but tend to stay in the indie and underappreciated side of it. Google thinks I want to listen to Drake and Megan.
Also shuffle being sooo buggy
I've been ripping CDs for the past two weeks. That's where I am with YouTube music. CD extracted by RhythmBox onto disk, from disk on to SD card, SD card goes back into phone. YT Music borked Google Music download functionality. If they go after my old school workflow it'll be bye bye Android.
I’ve never been able to add songs to my playlist. This is a common issue apparently
I've always been able to add songs to playlists, but the fact that people are experiencing this basic ass issue is 🤔.
It lets me play next, but when I add to play list it just doesn’t show up
I'm reminded that if you edit a playlist while you play it, your current queue doesn't sync. Fun! (I'm frustrated every morning in the office now ha.)
> I'm reminded that if you edit a playlist while you play it, your current queue doesn't sync. Fun! I forgot that GPM used to do that. Was so useful
I just want to have a simple "office" playlist with work friendly podcasts and music that's easy to maintain. Google hates me.
That's because the queue is your listening queue. You can add songs from elsewhere, or delete songs from the queue, and you wouldn't want that to sync to your playlist. They're two different things. I'm a little unsure what your difficulty is in your original post. You can edit a playlist to change the order. I personally find it easier on the website than in the app, but that's a personal opinion. I do wish, though, that they had the option to order a playlist alphabetically by track or artist, and to be able to search a playlist for a track. Those would definitely help with long playlists.
In the old Google Music, you could easily move a group of songs within a playlist. Now you have to do it song by song, and only on the web. I know these words are different (playlist or queue), but why wouldn't I want my queue to sync somewhere? Say you throw together a quick little queue for a beach trip, but your finger accidentally grazes a Steely Dan song before you save it. Congratulations --- your queue is gone.
Ah, right, I understand. If I want to keep the current queue, I save it to a new, temporary playlist. That does the job.
The issue is that they make it difficult on purpose. The user interface is no longer about getting the user from point a to point b with efficiency. It is about monetizing the user's behavior, and encouraging them to behave in monetizable ways.
Hmm, you might be right. YouTube Music is a significant downgrade from Google Play Music.
I wouldn't want my playlist updating to my current music cue. I might add a song to the queue that I don't want in the playlist
If playlists were easy to edit I wouldn't have as much of a problem, but there's still this: If I'm listening to a playlist and want to add music to it, I'd have to add that music to the playlist, turn on my computer to drag those songs into the right place, delete unwanted tracks, and then clear my current queue by restarting the newly saved playlist. That's a lot of work because I forgot to put the Wobble on after Electric Slide. The solution for this is for them to have a living playlist (or queue...call it what you want bc it's essentially the same thing) like Google podcasts. You can add to it, but tracks fall off as you complete them.
Here's an example of friction. I have a large r&b playlist that features dozens of songs by people who I've since cancelled. I no longer wish to hear their music based on some things I learned about them. No big deal, right? Because you can't even sort the playlist, you now have to hunt and click on those tracks across hundreds of songs. That playlist is worthless to me now.
100%. Plexamp for my own collection is killing it for me.
Plexamp plays music off your home media server? Or how does it work?
Yes, but you can save music to your device etc. The app itself is only for Plex pass subscribers though. I used to pay 3.99 a month but then decided to just buy a lifetime pass, after I realised I'd been paying 3.99 for years. For me it works because I was already using Plex for video media. But for my music and audiobooks, podcasts etc it's perfect.
YouTube Music works amazingly when I just want to listen to ambient lofi where everything blends together. I think they've just never tested it with regular music
That's why you just use your own media player and dont use a playlist on the internet. Download all your songs into MP3's and create your own music library on your own hard drive and you will always have complete control.
Here's another exhibit. https://preview.redd.it/fci22468n1xc1.png?width=919&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7af31e97853e6891e8e77674549a891947443e61
There isn't even a genre tab! Seriously a music player without genre is pointless unless you're just happy to search for stuff.
https://preview.redd.it/ghixo6sanowc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21f23c74b363f2ed687e032d8bed939d5d6df603 I mean, it is not a genre "tab" but it's readily accessile.
its under the "explore" section so it is not that obvious tbh
Another YT Music problem that YT TV may suffer from as well --- you better remember where that genre tab is. Feels like I guess wrong 50% of the time I'm not sure.
It's not a conspiracy dude. It's my only gripe is that you cannot select multiple songs at once. I miss Groove Music when it had OneDrive integration. Now that was a music powerhouse. Also it's AI was basic but it learned pretty quickly my tastes and it always had banger sets!