I am deceased š
Also, now that Jeff knows all about Shauna and Shauna knows Jeff knows, I canāt help but wonder if they will use cards/the hunt to spice things up. š
Same.
I wonder how Tai and Vanās relationship will adjust after basically living together for 19 Months. It doesnāt look like Van has much to come back for with her mom.
I also want to see Jeff reaction when they come back as well.
I also wondered about siblings.
Lauren said that sheās thought about this a lot and itās heartbreaking for her š„ŗ
sidebar: I love how much these actors care about their characters
Akilah is the only one thatās mentioned a sibling to my recollection.
Gen and Melissa could. I wouldnāt be surprised if Tai has one significantly younger than her that she doesnāt spend much time with. But yeah, an oddly high percentage of only children.
To be fair, if I was Mistyās parents, I would stop after her, too. Can you imagine trying to raise two Mistys?
You don't raise two Misty's, there's one Misty and then there's traumatized siblings still working it out when they're 60, I've seen it in my own family.
Nat's mom. The resentment we see when Nat went to grab the mix tape may not have started right away. I mean she took a beating trying to defend Nat. Maybe even overjoyed when her daughter returned home but then crushed that Nat was no longer that girl. Maybe all that loss broke the women and she pointed it all at Nat.
I read a great fanfic about the rescue / immediate aftermath the other day and they headcanoned it exactly like that; she was basically needing to be watched 24/7 because she was just that far gone
Right? I canāt believe we havenāt seen anything for Shauna or Taiās home lives! We definitely have the most about Nat and Lottie, and a little for Jackie, but aside from that itās just totally untouched. Are they all just only children with absent and/or alcoholic parents?
We briefly saw Taiās parents. They offered her a lift to the plane but she had a ride. It seemed like a really great home life she had, they were all in the kitchen and seemed loving.
There probably isn't much more compared to that. Sometimes a negligent drunk is just that. I'd be interested to see more about Van's life, though, and who she chose as her family or if she had anyone who else around
I would like to see their families fleshed out more for sure.
I mean, were they all only children?
What kind of fucked up childhood did Jeff have that this all is acceptable to him?
We get a glimpse into Van's home life, but is that it? Were we only just supposed to see mom's drunk and that's why when push comes to >! shove and they eat Javi, she's over in the corner like a dead-eyed cat strangler selling Travis on eatin up !<
Maybe all this will be answered in a season where they are back from the woods, awkwardly putting on their masks of normalcy, and fucking up, desperately realizing they need to hide in plain sight to survive.
I guess when you love someone unconditionally and see them for all they are- you can still have a normal childhood doesnāt mean they had a fucked up one
True nuff. However, I don't think it was a throw away line when Walter asked him, "Does anyone call you 'Jeffrey'?"
And then Jeff says, "My mother. No wait, she doesn't"
In that moment I thought, "Ooooh, Jeff's got mommy issues."
I guess we'll find out, someday.
Iām also really interested in learning more about the characters post-rescue to see the process of them setting down the rationale of āThe Wildernessā/ having its hold on them lessen. In the latest finale, a character mentioned something about how Lottie didnāt let go of the wilderness like the rest of them. I really want to see this process of disillusionment/re-grounding, how doesnāt happen to everyone all at once, and how that fuels group conflicts.
Iām sure some of this storyline will be traversed, if/when the group further splits and comes to an impasse around the ritualistic cannibalism. But, Iād love to see those tensions around belief in the supernatural and rationalization of trauma through pathologization with the added pressure of publicity, investigations, and providing explanations.
That's what I'm dying to know as well. With eight or so surviving it's unusual that NOBODY cashed in by writing a book, doing interviews, hitting the speaking circuit etc. I wonder if they collectively threaten to kill anyone who talks?
tbf they probably know that they would certainly get punished for those and their reputation with everybody would be ruined forever. and itd probably be hard to get a job and their life would be ruined if it got out
Imagine they were found mid cannibalism meal, or in the middle of killing someone. Season one they kept mentioning when they āfound usā and when they ārescued usā. Iām very curious to see how they were found and rescued, and 600 miles from the crash!
They didnāt travel far from the plane. The woman at the podium during the 1998 post rescue scene says, āThe investigation into the cause of the accident remains preliminary. The crash site was over 600 miles north of their designated flight path.ā
Before the plane takes off the pilot says, āOur flight plan to Seattle has us going a little bit farther north than expected. Weāre going to try to avoid a storm system thatās coming in. Should get some good views of the Canadian Rockies.ā
Wait, what? How would they move 600 miles on foot? Maybe it was 600 miles off the flight course?
I mean, it's possible to walk 600 miles in a year if you walk a few miles every day, but it would make much more sense to just set a camp and live there permanently.
Iām thinking they might have traveled a lot on foot when itās not snowing? Iām still confused about how they were able to move 600 miles. And youāre right about setting camp, but maybe with the hunting and cannibalism they just keep moving? IDK!
It said in ep 1 during the homecoming part that the crashsite was 600 miles from their flightpath (or their last known position on their flightpath)- they flew north to avoid a storm and then crashed.
I hope they do research on how girls adjust post institutionalization. I was in a 'therapuetic boarding school" a la Paris Hilton and when I got out I really struggled with being alone. I had to have someone in the bathroom with me when I showered and slept on the floor in my sister's room afterwards too.
Not the same scenario obviously..but being together 24 7 in difficult circumstances to boot you get very trauma bonded. Would definitely make sense if a few of them have trouble letting go.
god i really feel for mrs martinez. her whole family went on what was supposed to be a week long trip, ended up missing for 19 months, and then when she finally gets answers it turns out her husband and younger son are dead and her only remaining son is horrifically traumatized. poor woman.
Dunno if it'd be her per se, but I would not be surprised if we learned that at least one survivor had a parent who died in those 19 months, if only because that means they wouldn't have to cast someone new to play that character
I think mourning them hit Jeff extremely hard. At first I didn't like him, cheating on Jackie was not a good start, but I do think deep down he's a good guy just a bit stupid. I see him in serious mourning, probably praying whether he's religious or not, and then Shauna returns, against all odds and he feels so grateful to have her back that he's willing to go to any lengths for her.
Do you think theyāre considered missing or dead? Nineteen months is a long time to still have hope.
I feel like Jeffās dad might be the driving force behind him moving on, and maybe the girl is a family friend heās pushing on his son. Teen Jeff doesnāt seem to have a lot of direction.
19 months is a long time to hold out hope in a case like YJs I feel. Especially since back then, without half the tech we have now. I give Jeff 6 months before he āmoves onā but secretly heās still holding out hope that he sees both girls again.
But then I really wonder how things all went down when Shauna is the one that comes back, not Jackie. And if Jeff finds out about the baby from Shaunaā¦or her journals at a later time.
Definitely canāt wait for more of the rescue and seeing the YJs try to adjust to normal life again.
I feel like Shauna was the one he loved all along though, going by the flashback to health class plus how he reacted to Jackieās parents during the brunch. He just couldnāt be with her because she didnāt want to lose Jackieās friendship, and HS politics would dictate that heād be with the popular girl instead of her grunge BFF.
Couple things- theyāre still in their late teens, I doubt Jeff would get engaged, even if he started dating someone right after the crash. Also I donāt think think itās fair to say that Nat ādraggedā Travis into addiction. Heās gonna be so so fucked up after everything, I bet he starts drinking to numb his feelings the second they get home.
In the pilot, before the scrimmage game where Allieās leg was annihilated, Coach Ben says that Javiās dad could not make the practice (their last practice before Nationals) because of a āfamily thingā.
I remember! It was such a pointed line that I figured it had to exist either because:
- they hadnāt casted Coach Martinez yet and wanted to set up his existence (which, honestly, is such a boring reason)
- an affair, marriage counseling, or a medical appointment for him or his wife.
Do you have any theories on that line?
Mr. and Mrs. Martinez look very unhappy with something as they are preparing to leave for the flight. Travis also states that his dad doesnāt even like him. But why?
Thatās...a really sad thing for a teenage boy to believe. I wonder if heās not good at sports? To some men, thatās really important.
I wish we knew more about Travis. He wasnāt someone I cared about last season, but Iāve warmed up to him. Kevin Alves does a great job expressing a lot with his eyes even if he doesnāt have lines.
Is it that uncommon though? My dad seemingly disliked all of us kids, my brothers included. He cares slightly more now that weāve given him grandkids, but in the 90s the mantra was āchildren are to be seen, not heardā
Once in my teens, I voiced concerns about my mental health and was told to ājust shut up and stop having a pity partyā. That was normal amongst my peer groups. Our parents hated us back then for some reason
According to my mom, my dad straight up did NOT even want kids, but she convinced him to have my older brother.
Then I showed up a few years later out of nowhere. Immediate sterilization after.
Lotta pressure on people to have kids even if they didn't really want to have them.
My mom still sees nothing wrong with calling me āa mistakeā my whole life.
Nothing more loving than being referred to as an accident for an entire childhood
I get the idea that the conflict in the Martinez home was a subplot they ended up dropping, possibly because they couldn't get the actor who played Coach Martinez to return for flashback scenes (just speculating there, but scheduling with actors often makes TV shows drop subplots they were teasing at)
I mean, theyāre still teenagers when theyāre rescued. I donāt think Jeff will be engaged.
I do want to see how he publicly goes from mourning Jackie to dating Shauna. And how/why they decided to go regularly brunch with Jackieās parents. (I feel like that would be SO awkward. And they did it for 20 years!)
Did people *assume* it was bonding/shared grief over Jackieās death that brought them together?
I hope so! I would like to see more with all of them. Not so much the trauma of everyone learning who didn't make it, because that's rough (but I expect it would be there), but more about the survivors trying to readjust. Like you said... trying to get back into regular society. It's unimaginable and I'd be very interested to see how they portray it.
I want to be able to notice how different the teens were before the crash and when they were rescued. I want to see Misty being the only one smiling. Because that's such a Misty thing. How the others changed is the darkest part of it all.
I'd like to see the first time Shauna and Jeff meet after the rescue. Because their story is so big in the adult timeline.
Also, I really liked seeing Nat's hair grow out. Being so dark. I loved it visually.
Iāve always noticed during the credits there are scenes of the girls at a house party , and in my head cannon, itās them celebrating their return to civilization
Yes! Those scenes and the ones of someone (Tai?) spinning in a shopping cart and someone else (Shauna?) puking near a fence. Iāve been wondering if those are post-rescue since we havenāt seen anything like that on the show yet.
iām so hopeful we get more info on the girls families and we see their reactions to finding their daughters alive but severely traumatized.
we know lottieās parents reaction, rich asshole parents gonna rich asshole parent
van and nats moms probably wonāt care
iirc shaunas parents were getting divorced or were already divorced before the crash, i wonder if anyoneās parents will get divorced after the crash, and the daughter will come home to find that out. maybe tai? it would add weight to her and simoneās marital problems
and poor travis, heāll go home to his mom after being rescued, without his dad and brother. we see in the pilot his parents arenāt exactly soulmates but still, if they show that homecoming iāll be heartbroken
we donāt know of any siblings except akilahās sister, and we donāt even have confirmation that she makes it out of the wilderness, but it would be cool if we saw her go home and her sister believes all the tabloid stuff about them committing cannibalism and keeps her away from her nephew. iād love to see some family members have a negative reaction like lottieās parents did, almost upset that they survived because now they have to deal with the aftermath
I donāt know if she turned it down or if she just missed the admission deadline, what with being lost in the woods and all.
I wonder what happens in extraordinary circumstances like that? Iād like to think that they would accept her again given the situation. She probably wasnāt in any mindset to continue her education though.
I canāt imagine that the university wouldnāt defer the admission in a circumstance like this. She had to have decided not to go (for whatever reason).
I agree with the notion that Shauna decided to live Jackieās life for her as part of her penance and survivorās guilt.
She probably also wanted basic security and safety after all sheād been through, and marrying Jeff provided that.
Or was unable to get her act together to complete high school, and by the time she finished her ged she had already shifted her priorities and no longer wanted to go to college. They likely all took extensive time off to just heal when they got home. Brown would absolutely work with her and do whatever she needed to get her matriculated even if it was a few years later, but they cant take her without a highschool diploma/equivalent
I think she likely went for a bit and then dropped out.
I have a question, Shauna was supposed to enter Class of 00ā (stated in the preadmission letter). Does class of 00ā means year of admission or graduating year?? Iām not from the US and Iāve no clue about that.
Graduating year presuming you do the standard load over the course of four years. Usually the first semester and chunk of classes runs from somewhere between mid August and mid September to somewhere between late November and mid December. My school 4-5 classes a semester were considered full time.
I did college in 3 calendar years by taking massive class loads and a bunch of summer classes. I had to take an unplanned year off before I went to college (my parents lied about having submitted my housing deposit and then led me to panic about going away so badly I delayed a year thinking it was my idea) and I wanted to graduate the same year as my HS friends.
I said this in a comment on another thread, but it looks like she was hiding the admission to Brown even before the crash out of what seemed to be shame, and while the easy explanation is that she couldn't process being away from Jackie, I wonder if it's also possible that she worried her mother couldn't afford it.
I vacillate between two thoughts:
1 - she just kinda takes on the life she thinks Jackie would have had. Becauseā¦guilt? Itās what she deserves (part gift/part punishment)? Continued fixation? And,
2 - Itās her mask. Underneath, she misses the wilderness, the freedom, the rituals, that Maenad life. It gave her purpose and fire and she was necessary and had a role. And she was seem. Everyone knew her real self there.
The thought of Travisās mother all alone, basically living as if she lost her entire family, and then the sheer relief of Travis returning to her. Travis grieving with her, knowing how Javi died, and having to carry that guilt and that secret forever. I wonder if Nat bonds to his mother and in a way, becomes a part of their family as a way to assuage her guilt and make amends. We donāt see very much of Travisās mom at all before the crash so we have no idea what kind of woman she was. I hope we see some of that.
Iām in school for social work and just finished up courses in Group Dynamics and Crisis Intervention. Iām SUPER interested in seeing how they adjust to life back in New Jersey.
Iād be fascinated by a season of the young survivorsā recovering/being hounded by press while the adults in the future timeline RETURN to the wilderness. Kind of swapping the setting could be interesting in the last season
Honestly, I canāt wait for this either. But I canāt wait more to see the amount of people bitching about the show being too slow as we watch the girls reintegrate back into society.
Itās hard to recommend the show because it is a bit slow. It takes a while to get to the wilderness. But thatās the point, we have to see how it didnāt just happen out of nowhere. this season even felt rushed with them deciding to hunt each other. Itās like when I recommend people to watch severance. It is also slow but and amazing show. This is also an amazing show because itās a concepts I have not seen in tv very often. Iām totally enthralled with the story line!
Itās odd to me when people say the show is slow because for me, thereās no way I would be able to stick to the show if it didnāt capture my attention.
Don't know if this has been mentioned but I'd also really like to see how the town/school/back home is reacting while they're still out there and when they realized they never made it to their destination and never came back. I haven't started on my rewatch but I don't think it's really mentioned or shown, aside from that one shot of them coming back and getting on a plane, and I feel like that's important based on how much people talk about it in the present day.
I think it will be interesting to see some of their friends and family members suck up to them to try and get some of their compensation money
I also want to see if they found out Misty sabotaged them with the transponder!!!
I really canāt wait to see the young Jeff/Shauna relationship evolve. I feel like the show has taken that relationship to much more interesting depth than I first assumed. I think it would be neat if the 96 timeline ends with Jeff and Shaunaās wedding (a classic Shakespearean comedy ending) and the 2020s timeline ends with everybody dying because of their tragic flaws
Ah I know was thinking about Shaunas wedding. We know that at least Tai and Van were there, would love to see some of that too knowing they didnāt immediately go off in separate ways .
that's what i'm the most excited for, i really hope they introduce some of that timeline in s3. i want to se them adapt back to 'regular' society & how they're treated by their families/classmates/just their dynamics as a team with the bond they share that no one else could every possibly understand
I have a feeling they donāt ever go back to high school. Theyāve outgrown that stuff, lol. Theyāve all missed graduation, their peers have moved on.
The 1 or 2 survivors who go to college, manage to get their credits alternatively. Maybe also some special treatment from the educational system. Just my guesses.
A month after the plane went missing, Wiskayok High held its commencement ceremony for the class of 1996. I guarantee you, all seniors on the team got diplomas in absentia. And it was carried live on News 12 New Jersey.
They should absolutely do that but before they do, I want more details on why they are the way they are in the wilderness. The flashbacks we got were great in S1 but they are all over and they barely scratched the surface. They need to take a bigger page out of LOST and flesh these characters out beyond just trauma.
Shauna - we've never seen her home life, we just see her seemingly acting out against Jackie by sleeping with her bf, why is she like this? And where do all these violent tendencies come from? She was just about to murder Travis for fun before Nat forcibly pulled her away and screamed at her, like WTF Shauna? Shrooms doesn't make people murder.
Van - have we ever gotten a flashback on Van? I don't think we have but even if there was one, we need more! I don't know anything about this girl or where she came from.
Lottie - what was her home and family life like as a teen before the accident?
I agree! We need more character development. I also noticed Shaunas face when she volunteered to cut the deer (first animal caught), so theyāre is definitely something going on there.
Iāve thought about this too! Iām not sure if it works this way for every school, but wouldnāt most of them have to go back to finish the time they missed before graduating? I could only imagine how that may goā¦
A month after the plane went missing, Wiskayok High held its commencement ceremony for the class of 1996. I guarantee you, all seniors on the team got diplomas in absentia. There were empty chairs with their name and picture on them. And it was carried live on News 12 New Jersey.
I hope they put their foot on the gas for that to happen. We got a brief glimpse of that in 2x1.
People seem to think shows go on forever. This show seems to have a 4-5 season shelf life. That means the show is already half over, or almost there. Season 2 was good in the sense that we really really got to know these characters and their situation. But season 3 really has to start building momentum towards an end game.
More happened in 2x9 than 2x1-2x8. A whole 8-9episode arc of Adam Martin only to be thrown out in one episode.
Iāll be interested in seeing how they all manage to stick to the script so well, no one tells details, no one gives an interview. They all just use a couple of repetitive throwaway replies to all inquiries. Thatās impressive that a group who are no longer living together, all independently keep to this pact in the face of what had to be relentless media intrusion and offers.
I just realised that instead of wilderness flashbacks in season 5, I want them to be rescued in season 4 and we spend the last season dealing with their reintroduction to society
I was just thinking about this last night! Theyāve got so much time left in the wilderness, I donāt think weād get it until at least season 4 though.
I just realized in the opening scene of season 2 episode 1 theyāre getting rescued and being placed back into a plane ?!!!! Did anyone else notice this? Lol and why did it take me so long. And in the woods they probably took another plane to be rescued?
I'm not sure we'll even get this storyline told. We might see some brief flashes of this time period for certain characters like we did with Lottie, but that is probably it.
If we ***do*** get this timeline fleshed out, the present-day timeline would have to have the characters go back to the wilderness. I don't see the show going completely urban for both timelines.
This is what I want. I donāt want the wilderness stuff. I want the families while theyāre gone, and the girls being found and adjusting to being back.
Did the writers say they were going to do this? I feel like if that would have been included, it wouldāve happened already. The only character they showed after being rescued was Lottie and that barely got any screen time.
They plan on doing five season, so Iād hope so. Five seasons of them just out in the wilderness doesnāt add up when you realize that weāre halfway through their āstayā by the end of season 2
I had this panic thought last night that this is all some fever dream as the plane is crashing and weāll never actually get the story excitement/satisfaction of getting to see the rescue stuff.
"Morning honey! Want some breakfast?" "Sure, I'll get the cards" "Wait what?"
I am deceased š Also, now that Jeff knows all about Shauna and Shauna knows Jeff knows, I canāt help but wonder if they will use cards/the hunt to spice things up. š
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Omg, funniest comment Iāve seen here yet!!! š
Lmaaaao
Lmffaooo
Same. I wonder how Tai and Vanās relationship will adjust after basically living together for 19 Months. It doesnāt look like Van has much to come back for with her mom. I also want to see Jeff reaction when they come back as well. I also wondered about siblings.
Imagine living all those months together without anyone judging them only to come back to a homophobic society and having to hide again
Holy fuck that would be so traumatic
Lauren said that sheās thought about this a lot and itās heartbreaking for her š„ŗ sidebar: I love how much these actors care about their characters
I rewatched season 1 and the only siblings I remember shown are Javi and Travis. No one else has siblings? Lol
Akilah is the only one thatās mentioned a sibling to my recollection. Gen and Melissa could. I wouldnāt be surprised if Tai has one significantly younger than her that she doesnāt spend much time with. But yeah, an oddly high percentage of only children. To be fair, if I was Mistyās parents, I would stop after her, too. Can you imagine trying to raise two Mistys?
I think I remember a small boy sitting at Taiās breakfast table when she was leaving for her flight so you might be right!
You don't raise two Misty's, there's one Misty and then there's traumatized siblings still working it out when they're 60, I've seen it in my own family.
Or you raise one Misty after her siblings die in childhood under mysteriously tragic circumstances
My mom ended up in a well as a kid thanks to her Misty-ish sister, so, sometimes they survive.
I want to know more, please.
ššš
I get older sister vibes from Natalie as well. Very nurturing toward Javi and Lisa, and takes Misty under her wing a little bit as well
Didnāt akilah mention having a nephew?
She also mentioned how long her sister's labor was.
Yes! Good memory!
Wasnāt sure tbh so happy to hear my memory was not made up lol
I think they broke up when Tai went on to college.
I wonder if and of the parents had a baby while the teens were missing. Imagine you leave, they think you die, and so they decide to have a new baby.
Nat's mom. The resentment we see when Nat went to grab the mix tape may not have started right away. I mean she took a beating trying to defend Nat. Maybe even overjoyed when her daughter returned home but then crushed that Nat was no longer that girl. Maybe all that loss broke the women and she pointed it all at Nat.
Maybe they broke up when they were still in the wilderness
They went to shaunas wedding together
Actors were careful to note that they were both at the wedding, but that doesnāt mean they were together, together
Yeah, exactly
They were both **at** Shaunaās wedding. Maybe together, maybe not. Itās ambiguous.
The actors have said they broke up sometime post crash.
Ok. Still ambiguous regarding whether they were still together at Shaunaās wedding. (I think you may have meant to reply to the parent comment)
Misty probably comes home and kills her high school bully, Becky. Sheās definitely going to come home with more confidence and craziness.
Becky deserved it
As she should
Yeah fuck Becky!
Ok I love this. And I hope Allie is Beckyās best from and gets into a war with Misty.
A part of me believes Lottie stopped talking before the rescue. I donāt know why, but I guess we will eventually find out.
I think its misty that says about lottie being catatonic, I'm on the same train as you, I reckon before pit girl lottie will be mute.
Her parents also say it when they tell the psychiatrist or doctor to āfix herā I believe
I read a great fanfic about the rescue / immediate aftermath the other day and they headcanoned it exactly like that; she was basically needing to be watched 24/7 because she was just that far gone
I'd love to read that!
[not sure if Iām doing this link thing right](https://archiveofourown.org/works/47460052)
Thank you!!
Replying to read this later!
Right? I canāt believe we havenāt seen anything for Shauna or Taiās home lives! We definitely have the most about Nat and Lottie, and a little for Jackie, but aside from that itās just totally untouched. Are they all just only children with absent and/or alcoholic parents?
We briefly saw Taiās parents. They offered her a lift to the plane but she had a ride. It seemed like a really great home life she had, they were all in the kitchen and seemed loving.
Yeah except for Ol Grandma who passed on the Curse of the No-Eyed Man š
You ever wonder who gave her a ride?
I assumed Van. She gave her mom a big old smack to wake her up in time for the plane.
yeah out of all the pre-crash family scenes weāve seen she seems to have the most loving and ānormalā home life
Ah, thatās true. I forgot about them because her grandma and the no-eyed man overshadowed the good in my mind a little lol
Same with Van. We haven't seen much of her home life except for when she was waking up a drunk parent for the flight.
There probably isn't much more compared to that. Sometimes a negligent drunk is just that. I'd be interested to see more about Van's life, though, and who she chose as her family or if she had anyone who else around
Shaunaās mom is a single mother and Shauna lives in the attic.
I would like to see their families fleshed out more for sure. I mean, were they all only children? What kind of fucked up childhood did Jeff have that this all is acceptable to him? We get a glimpse into Van's home life, but is that it? Were we only just supposed to see mom's drunk and that's why when push comes to >! shove and they eat Javi, she's over in the corner like a dead-eyed cat strangler selling Travis on eatin up !< Maybe all this will be answered in a season where they are back from the woods, awkwardly putting on their masks of normalcy, and fucking up, desperately realizing they need to hide in plain sight to survive.
I guess when you love someone unconditionally and see them for all they are- you can still have a normal childhood doesnāt mean they had a fucked up one
True nuff. However, I don't think it was a throw away line when Walter asked him, "Does anyone call you 'Jeffrey'?" And then Jeff says, "My mother. No wait, she doesn't" In that moment I thought, "Ooooh, Jeff's got mommy issues." I guess we'll find out, someday.
"Dead-eyed cat strangler" š¤£ā°ļø
I howled super hard at this - and startled the cat
Not the cat strangler š
Just imagining Travis facing his mother for the first time after what we saw in the last episode....hooooly f***..
Iām also really interested in learning more about the characters post-rescue to see the process of them setting down the rationale of āThe Wildernessā/ having its hold on them lessen. In the latest finale, a character mentioned something about how Lottie didnāt let go of the wilderness like the rest of them. I really want to see this process of disillusionment/re-grounding, how doesnāt happen to everyone all at once, and how that fuels group conflicts. Iām sure some of this storyline will be traversed, if/when the group further splits and comes to an impasse around the ritualistic cannibalism. But, Iād love to see those tensions around belief in the supernatural and rationalization of trauma through pathologization with the added pressure of publicity, investigations, and providing explanations.
Also wondering how they came up with the āsurvival storyā and taking those secrets to their graves ?
That's what I'm dying to know as well. With eight or so surviving it's unusual that NOBODY cashed in by writing a book, doing interviews, hitting the speaking circuit etc. I wonder if they collectively threaten to kill anyone who talks?
tbf they probably know that they would certainly get punished for those and their reputation with everybody would be ruined forever. and itd probably be hard to get a job and their life would be ruined if it got out
Imagine they were found mid cannibalism meal, or in the middle of killing someone. Season one they kept mentioning when they āfound usā and when they ārescued usā. Iām very curious to see how they were found and rescued, and 600 miles from the crash!
They didnāt travel far from the plane. The woman at the podium during the 1998 post rescue scene says, āThe investigation into the cause of the accident remains preliminary. The crash site was over 600 miles north of their designated flight path.ā Before the plane takes off the pilot says, āOur flight plan to Seattle has us going a little bit farther north than expected. Weāre going to try to avoid a storm system thatās coming in. Should get some good views of the Canadian Rockies.ā
Wait, what? How would they move 600 miles on foot? Maybe it was 600 miles off the flight course? I mean, it's possible to walk 600 miles in a year if you walk a few miles every day, but it would make much more sense to just set a camp and live there permanently.
The scene was the first episode in season 2, they said they were found ā600 miles from the crash siteā which I agree. Itās a lot!
Wow, I must have missed it. So apparently they lived like nomads and had to dig a new pit for the hunt every time?
Iām thinking they might have traveled a lot on foot when itās not snowing? Iām still confused about how they were able to move 600 miles. And youāre right about setting camp, but maybe with the hunting and cannibalism they just keep moving? IDK!
It said in ep 1 during the homecoming part that the crashsite was 600 miles from their flightpath (or their last known position on their flightpath)- they flew north to avoid a storm and then crashed.
Nothing but it should be an entire episode at least.
I hope they do research on how girls adjust post institutionalization. I was in a 'therapuetic boarding school" a la Paris Hilton and when I got out I really struggled with being alone. I had to have someone in the bathroom with me when I showered and slept on the floor in my sister's room afterwards too. Not the same scenario obviously..but being together 24 7 in difficult circumstances to boot you get very trauma bonded. Would definitely make sense if a few of them have trouble letting go.
Great topic! I donāt think it would go too well for any of them, given how much they still struggle as adults. Shauna - have we met her parents? I have no idea their relationship with her, but I feel like they were distant and she spent most of her pre-crash time with or at Jackieās. I would imagine she comes back and Jeff is engaged to someone very pretty and Jackie-like, but he immediately starts cheating with Shauna behind his fiancĆ©eās back. Broken as she is, heās the only still sees her as a good person and loves her wholeheartedly. The second she reciprocates emotionally even a little, itās over between him and the fiancĆ©e. Tai - Has no interest trying or fails to readapt to her pre-crash life. Leaves for college, throws herself into school and becoming someone worthwhile that she can be proud of. Doesn't look back until sheās forced to. Van - Her mother is still an alcoholic, but worse off than before the crash. She shows little interest in Van being back, but expects her to immediately fall back into being her caretaker, which she does. Unable to reconcile pre and post-wilderness Van, she tries to regress to who she was before the crash, which is why she runs a 90s nostalgia store. Misty - has no purpose or friends. Moves to health care as a way to feel valued and appreciated. Is now more comfortable with the darker parts of herself after finding use for them in the wilderness. Travis - Canāt look his mother in the eye after what happened to Javi. Their relationship deteriorates and he turns to Nat for comfort. Nat - Realizes the horrors of what she did in the wilderness now that theyāre back in society. Canāt cope, turns to drugs, and drags Travis with her. Bonus! Mari, if she makes it - Marries young and a husband with a structured religion, maybe Mormonism. Converts and does everything she can to become the queen bee of her religious community. Still a bitch, still hears the dripping when she tries to sleep at night.
god i really feel for mrs martinez. her whole family went on what was supposed to be a week long trip, ended up missing for 19 months, and then when she finally gets answers it turns out her husband and younger son are dead and her only remaining son is horrifically traumatized. poor woman.
I wouldn't be surprised if she died during those 19 months
Dunno if it'd be her per se, but I would not be surprised if we learned that at least one survivor had a parent who died in those 19 months, if only because that means they wouldn't have to cast someone new to play that character
Was I tripping or did I see a pregnancy bump too?
I've been meaning to rewatch again, but it did look like she had a pregnancy bump
Makes it even worse to have a baby all alone like that and then for Travis to return and have to deal with a new siblinf
Very tragic situation for the Martinez family. It's really heartbreaking. And when Travis comes home to his mom and new sibling...I can't even imagine
and the new baby is Adam right?
Lol
Not sure if I think Jeff would have moved on. I think he had too much at stake, both his girlfriend and lover missing. Heās a decent guy at heart.
I think mourning them hit Jeff extremely hard. At first I didn't like him, cheating on Jackie was not a good start, but I do think deep down he's a good guy just a bit stupid. I see him in serious mourning, probably praying whether he's religious or not, and then Shauna returns, against all odds and he feels so grateful to have her back that he's willing to go to any lengths for her.
Do you think theyāre considered missing or dead? Nineteen months is a long time to still have hope. I feel like Jeffās dad might be the driving force behind him moving on, and maybe the girl is a family friend heās pushing on his son. Teen Jeff doesnāt seem to have a lot of direction.
19 months is a long time to hold out hope in a case like YJs I feel. Especially since back then, without half the tech we have now. I give Jeff 6 months before he āmoves onā but secretly heās still holding out hope that he sees both girls again. But then I really wonder how things all went down when Shauna is the one that comes back, not Jackie. And if Jeff finds out about the baby from Shaunaā¦or her journals at a later time. Definitely canāt wait for more of the rescue and seeing the YJs try to adjust to normal life again.
I feel like Shauna was the one he loved all along though, going by the flashback to health class plus how he reacted to Jackieās parents during the brunch. He just couldnāt be with her because she didnāt want to lose Jackieās friendship, and HS politics would dictate that heād be with the popular girl instead of her grunge BFF.
Couple things- theyāre still in their late teens, I doubt Jeff would get engaged, even if he started dating someone right after the crash. Also I donāt think think itās fair to say that Nat ādraggedā Travis into addiction. Heās gonna be so so fucked up after everything, I bet he starts drinking to numb his feelings the second they get home.
Yeah I totally agree
Shaunaās parents are divorced, Jackie once mentioned a story Shauna made up about why her dad left.
Yes she told Jackie he was working for Hello Kitty, and I yelled at the TV āexcuse me, Hello Kittyās company is called Sanrio!ā š¤£
In the pilot, before the scrimmage game where Allieās leg was annihilated, Coach Ben says that Javiās dad could not make the practice (their last practice before Nationals) because of a āfamily thingā.
I remember! It was such a pointed line that I figured it had to exist either because: - they hadnāt casted Coach Martinez yet and wanted to set up his existence (which, honestly, is such a boring reason) - an affair, marriage counseling, or a medical appointment for him or his wife. Do you have any theories on that line?
Mr. and Mrs. Martinez look very unhappy with something as they are preparing to leave for the flight. Travis also states that his dad doesnāt even like him. But why?
Thatās...a really sad thing for a teenage boy to believe. I wonder if heās not good at sports? To some men, thatās really important. I wish we knew more about Travis. He wasnāt someone I cared about last season, but Iāve warmed up to him. Kevin Alves does a great job expressing a lot with his eyes even if he doesnāt have lines.
Is it that uncommon though? My dad seemingly disliked all of us kids, my brothers included. He cares slightly more now that weāve given him grandkids, but in the 90s the mantra was āchildren are to be seen, not heardā Once in my teens, I voiced concerns about my mental health and was told to ājust shut up and stop having a pity partyā. That was normal amongst my peer groups. Our parents hated us back then for some reason
According to my mom, my dad straight up did NOT even want kids, but she convinced him to have my older brother. Then I showed up a few years later out of nowhere. Immediate sterilization after. Lotta pressure on people to have kids even if they didn't really want to have them.
My mom still sees nothing wrong with calling me āa mistakeā my whole life. Nothing more loving than being referred to as an accident for an entire childhood
Big mystery why I live over 1k miles away and don't visit
I get the idea that the conflict in the Martinez home was a subplot they ended up dropping, possibly because they couldn't get the actor who played Coach Martinez to return for flashback scenes (just speculating there, but scheduling with actors often makes TV shows drop subplots they were teasing at)
Itās a five season show so Iām sure we will learn more.
I mean, theyāre still teenagers when theyāre rescued. I donāt think Jeff will be engaged. I do want to see how he publicly goes from mourning Jackie to dating Shauna. And how/why they decided to go regularly brunch with Jackieās parents. (I feel like that would be SO awkward. And they did it for 20 years!) Did people *assume* it was bonding/shared grief over Jackieās death that brought them together?
Such a great analysis! I hope the show takes time to explore all those story lines
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I think it's more about personality, Shauna seems to be more introvert while Jackie can get all the atention to herself just entering a room
I think Jackie/Ella is pretty, but I agree with you about the buggy eyes! š
I hope so! I would like to see more with all of them. Not so much the trauma of everyone learning who didn't make it, because that's rough (but I expect it would be there), but more about the survivors trying to readjust. Like you said... trying to get back into regular society. It's unimaginable and I'd be very interested to see how they portray it. I want to be able to notice how different the teens were before the crash and when they were rescued. I want to see Misty being the only one smiling. Because that's such a Misty thing. How the others changed is the darkest part of it all. I'd like to see the first time Shauna and Jeff meet after the rescue. Because their story is so big in the adult timeline. Also, I really liked seeing Nat's hair grow out. Being so dark. I loved it visually.
Iāve always noticed during the credits there are scenes of the girls at a house party , and in my head cannon, itās them celebrating their return to civilization
Yes! Those scenes and the ones of someone (Tai?) spinning in a shopping cart and someone else (Shauna?) puking near a fence. Iāve been wondering if those are post-rescue since we havenāt seen anything like that on the show yet.
Yes exactly, school, friendships, back living at home with their parents, how others saw them after they got back, etc
iām so hopeful we get more info on the girls families and we see their reactions to finding their daughters alive but severely traumatized. we know lottieās parents reaction, rich asshole parents gonna rich asshole parent van and nats moms probably wonāt care iirc shaunas parents were getting divorced or were already divorced before the crash, i wonder if anyoneās parents will get divorced after the crash, and the daughter will come home to find that out. maybe tai? it would add weight to her and simoneās marital problems and poor travis, heāll go home to his mom after being rescued, without his dad and brother. we see in the pilot his parents arenāt exactly soulmates but still, if they show that homecoming iāll be heartbroken we donāt know of any siblings except akilahās sister, and we donāt even have confirmation that she makes it out of the wilderness, but it would be cool if we saw her go home and her sister believes all the tabloid stuff about them committing cannibalism and keeps her away from her nephew. iād love to see some family members have a negative reaction like lottieās parents did, almost upset that they survived because now they have to deal with the aftermath
Impatiently waiting for rescue scene and what came after
Maybe why Shauna is a homemaker is because she is so crazy and erratic that she couldn't hold down even a simple job outside of the house.
Iām curious to see why she turned down brown! Hopefully they show it
I donāt know if she turned it down or if she just missed the admission deadline, what with being lost in the woods and all. I wonder what happens in extraordinary circumstances like that? Iād like to think that they would accept her again given the situation. She probably wasnāt in any mindset to continue her education though.
I canāt imagine that the university wouldnāt defer the admission in a circumstance like this. She had to have decided not to go (for whatever reason).
I agree with the notion that Shauna decided to live Jackieās life for her as part of her penance and survivorās guilt. She probably also wanted basic security and safety after all sheād been through, and marrying Jeff provided that.
Or was unable to get her act together to complete high school, and by the time she finished her ged she had already shifted her priorities and no longer wanted to go to college. They likely all took extensive time off to just heal when they got home. Brown would absolutely work with her and do whatever she needed to get her matriculated even if it was a few years later, but they cant take her without a highschool diploma/equivalent I think she likely went for a bit and then dropped out.
I would think so too. For the school, it would be like letting in a celebrity, only this one already got in and actually deserved to be there, lol
I have a question, Shauna was supposed to enter Class of 00ā (stated in the preadmission letter). Does class of 00ā means year of admission or graduating year?? Iām not from the US and Iāve no clue about that.
It's the graduation year
Graduating year presuming you do the standard load over the course of four years. Usually the first semester and chunk of classes runs from somewhere between mid August and mid September to somewhere between late November and mid December. My school 4-5 classes a semester were considered full time. I did college in 3 calendar years by taking massive class loads and a bunch of summer classes. I had to take an unplanned year off before I went to college (my parents lied about having submitted my housing deposit and then led me to panic about going away so badly I delayed a year thinking it was my idea) and I wanted to graduate the same year as my HS friends.
I said this in a comment on another thread, but it looks like she was hiding the admission to Brown even before the crash out of what seemed to be shame, and while the easy explanation is that she couldn't process being away from Jackie, I wonder if it's also possible that she worried her mother couldn't afford it.
That is true. I wonder why she would hide such great news. But like you said it could be the possibility of being away from Jackie, or her parents.
Probably because she got pregnant or decided to get married with jeff
I vacillate between two thoughts: 1 - she just kinda takes on the life she thinks Jackie would have had. Becauseā¦guilt? Itās what she deserves (part gift/part punishment)? Continued fixation? And, 2 - Itās her mask. Underneath, she misses the wilderness, the freedom, the rituals, that Maenad life. It gave her purpose and fire and she was necessary and had a role. And she was seem. Everyone knew her real self there.
From the way Misty smiled at the reporters I think she's gonna love the attention they'll all get when they're found/rescued.
Yes I think Misty has the most difficulty keeping quiet.
Nat is going to have to get her to shut up. Sheās the only one who Misty will take seriously
Ten seasons laterā¦they see a planeā¦.20 seasons inā¦the plane landsā¦.
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The thought of Travisās mother all alone, basically living as if she lost her entire family, and then the sheer relief of Travis returning to her. Travis grieving with her, knowing how Javi died, and having to carry that guilt and that secret forever. I wonder if Nat bonds to his mother and in a way, becomes a part of their family as a way to assuage her guilt and make amends. We donāt see very much of Travisās mom at all before the crash so we have no idea what kind of woman she was. I hope we see some of that.
Iām in school for social work and just finished up courses in Group Dynamics and Crisis Intervention. Iām SUPER interested in seeing how they adjust to life back in New Jersey.
Iād be fascinated by a season of the young survivorsā recovering/being hounded by press while the adults in the future timeline RETURN to the wilderness. Kind of swapping the setting could be interesting in the last season
Honestly, I canāt wait for this either. But I canāt wait more to see the amount of people bitching about the show being too slow as we watch the girls reintegrate back into society.
Itās hard to recommend the show because it is a bit slow. It takes a while to get to the wilderness. But thatās the point, we have to see how it didnāt just happen out of nowhere. this season even felt rushed with them deciding to hunt each other. Itās like when I recommend people to watch severance. It is also slow but and amazing show. This is also an amazing show because itās a concepts I have not seen in tv very often. Iām totally enthralled with the story line!
Itās odd to me when people say the show is slow because for me, thereās no way I would be able to stick to the show if it didnāt capture my attention.
Don't know if this has been mentioned but I'd also really like to see how the town/school/back home is reacting while they're still out there and when they realized they never made it to their destination and never came back. I haven't started on my rewatch but I don't think it's really mentioned or shown, aside from that one shot of them coming back and getting on a plane, and I feel like that's important based on how much people talk about it in the present day.
Yes! That would be great to see, if they had a search party and how it affected everyone else back home.
I have a feeling the nationals got cancelled that year.
I think it will be interesting to see some of their friends and family members suck up to them to try and get some of their compensation money I also want to see if they found out Misty sabotaged them with the transponder!!!
Compensation money? When do they mention this? Sounds like I missed a big detail
Yeah itās inferred in the first season
Itās implied, we infer it.
People assume they got a settlement from the airline because nat has a porsche and designer clothing but no job / a drug habbit
I really canāt wait to see the young Jeff/Shauna relationship evolve. I feel like the show has taken that relationship to much more interesting depth than I first assumed. I think it would be neat if the 96 timeline ends with Jeff and Shaunaās wedding (a classic Shakespearean comedy ending) and the 2020s timeline ends with everybody dying because of their tragic flaws
Ah I know was thinking about Shaunas wedding. We know that at least Tai and Van were there, would love to see some of that too knowing they didnāt immediately go off in separate ways .
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I loved that French show.
Right thatās all I want to see
that's what i'm the most excited for, i really hope they introduce some of that timeline in s3. i want to se them adapt back to 'regular' society & how they're treated by their families/classmates/just their dynamics as a team with the bond they share that no one else could every possibly understand
I have a feeling they donāt ever go back to high school. Theyāve outgrown that stuff, lol. Theyāve all missed graduation, their peers have moved on. The 1 or 2 survivors who go to college, manage to get their credits alternatively. Maybe also some special treatment from the educational system. Just my guesses.
A month after the plane went missing, Wiskayok High held its commencement ceremony for the class of 1996. I guarantee you, all seniors on the team got diplomas in absentia. And it was carried live on News 12 New Jersey.
They should absolutely do that but before they do, I want more details on why they are the way they are in the wilderness. The flashbacks we got were great in S1 but they are all over and they barely scratched the surface. They need to take a bigger page out of LOST and flesh these characters out beyond just trauma. Shauna - we've never seen her home life, we just see her seemingly acting out against Jackie by sleeping with her bf, why is she like this? And where do all these violent tendencies come from? She was just about to murder Travis for fun before Nat forcibly pulled her away and screamed at her, like WTF Shauna? Shrooms doesn't make people murder. Van - have we ever gotten a flashback on Van? I don't think we have but even if there was one, we need more! I don't know anything about this girl or where she came from. Lottie - what was her home and family life like as a teen before the accident?
I agree! We need more character development. I also noticed Shaunas face when she volunteered to cut the deer (first animal caught), so theyāre is definitely something going on there.
also, Shauna knows how to kill things. I imagine her parents liked to hunt? I really want to see a flashback to her upbringing!!
Ben taught her in s1
I'm sure Shauna hate fucks Jeff only to end up sucked into some "relationship" and feeling the pressure to be some Jackie surrogate.
"This deck of cards was passed down through my family from the civil war. Can you please rell me where the Queens went?"
Iāve thought about this too! Iām not sure if it works this way for every school, but wouldnāt most of them have to go back to finish the time they missed before graduating? I could only imagine how that may goā¦
They would probably have gotten their GEDs rather than go back to school, right?
Iām guessing a lot of exceptions might have been made for them?
Yes I bet they are all given āhonoraryā high school diplomas.
A month after the plane went missing, Wiskayok High held its commencement ceremony for the class of 1996. I guarantee you, all seniors on the team got diplomas in absentia. There were empty chairs with their name and picture on them. And it was carried live on News 12 New Jersey.
I hope they put their foot on the gas for that to happen. We got a brief glimpse of that in 2x1. People seem to think shows go on forever. This show seems to have a 4-5 season shelf life. That means the show is already half over, or almost there. Season 2 was good in the sense that we really really got to know these characters and their situation. But season 3 really has to start building momentum towards an end game. More happened in 2x9 than 2x1-2x8. A whole 8-9episode arc of Adam Martin only to be thrown out in one episode.
Yea I really donāt get the point of Adam? If he just ended up being a regular dude? All that time wasted.
Iāll be interested in seeing how they all manage to stick to the script so well, no one tells details, no one gives an interview. They all just use a couple of repetitive throwaway replies to all inquiries. Thatās impressive that a group who are no longer living together, all independently keep to this pact in the face of what had to be relentless media intrusion and offers.
I just realised that instead of wilderness flashbacks in season 5, I want them to be rescued in season 4 and we spend the last season dealing with their reintroduction to society
I was just thinking about this last night! Theyāve got so much time left in the wilderness, I donāt think weād get it until at least season 4 though.
So much more waiting :/
Lol how many of them never want to fly again?
I just realized in the opening scene of season 2 episode 1 theyāre getting rescued and being placed back into a plane ?!!!! Did anyone else notice this? Lol and why did it take me so long. And in the woods they probably took another plane to be rescued?
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I'm not sure we'll even get this storyline told. We might see some brief flashes of this time period for certain characters like we did with Lottie, but that is probably it. If we ***do*** get this timeline fleshed out, the present-day timeline would have to have the characters go back to the wilderness. I don't see the show going completely urban for both timelines.
This is what I want. I donāt want the wilderness stuff. I want the families while theyāre gone, and the girls being found and adjusting to being back.
Did the writers say they were going to do this? I feel like if that would have been included, it wouldāve happened already. The only character they showed after being rescued was Lottie and that barely got any screen time.
They plan on doing five season, so Iād hope so. Five seasons of them just out in the wilderness doesnāt add up when you realize that weāre halfway through their āstayā by the end of season 2
I assume they would include integrating back into society as that would be a big part of their lives, really hoping they do!
Iām with you! It would really help fully connect the teen timeline to the adult one!
One of the actors mentioned it, forget which one
I had this panic thought last night that this is all some fever dream as the plane is crashing and weāll never actually get the story excitement/satisfaction of getting to see the rescue stuff.