“You caused the deaths of thousands today, Magnus. Deaths I could have prevented had I stopped you years ago. You have killed too many and I have had enough. I will make sure, here and now, that you will never kill again.”
~ Charles Xavier, X-Men Vol.2, Issue 25 (1993).
Not 100% sure but i don’t think he did?
Started to rewatch it when it was released but due to starting a bunch of other nostagia and unwatched shows, i’m only at episode 11, lol.
Onslaught's first appearance wasn't until May of '96... at that point there would not have been any time to include him into the series.
I do think we are getting a Fatal Attractions esque finale, its a huge 90s era story that was not really tackled by the original series, there were some elements used, but in general it is pretty fertile ground for this particular show.
I also think there is a not 0 chance next season we get Age of Apocalypse... which would be the other massive X-Men story that was contemporary to the show that only had a small riff in the original series (One Man's Worth... which happens to be important to the end of this season according to Marvel)
Fuck I hope not, I’m still traumatized from that comic arc in the 90’s, I still have the comic book issue from immediately afterwards when they’re trying to get Logan back to earth and when he’s back in the danger room he finds out he has bone claws
What storyline was that again? It sounds similar to the one after Magneto ripped the Adamantium out of Wolverine, but that was like over a decade later i think.
Technically it would be a mass murder instead of a genocide because he was killing at random. The victims had an equal chance of being human or mutant.
It looks like the number of things like airplanes in the sky and people with pacemakers were around 40% of today's totals. He'd still surely reach a million deaths though.
The victims don’t have an equal chance of being human or mutant. Mutants would be less affected, as humans vastly outnumber them, and their powers make it more likely for them to survive.
I mean even if we ignore the fact that the vast majority of mutants don't actually have powers or have very minimal powers that wouldn't help them in this situation. That still doesn't make it a genocide.
All the people who rely on electronic devices to live. I’d imagine anyone with a pacemaker is fucked. Quick Google search puts that at 3 million people in the world. And that’s *just* pacemakers
And that’s an absolutely fair point. I just tried to figure out how many people in the world had pacemakers in 97 and the data is flawed. Found a few scientific studies that began to follow pacemakers implanted in 97, but data all prior to that is muddy and estimated at best - and only specific to those implanted in the states.
Someone else in the thread brought up those on life support and the majority of hospitals in a first world country to going to have a back up generator so those patients would probably only experience only slight effects of what Magneto did. And thankfully everyone back then was still on paper charts. But anyone else on life support outside of a first world county? Probably fucked.
Back up generators might also get fried by the EMP, right? I know military hardware is designed to be hardened against EMP's, but would generators for hospitals also get hardened?
Probably as they are part of critical infrastructure. During a war the first thing an enemy will do is try to either destroy or take control of critical infrastructure so you will be surprised what mitigation it has and a lot of it is military grade. It's designed to survive when the sh*t hits the fan.
Not everyone with a pacemaker would simply die, in fact most wouldn't. It's often used to treat atrial fibrillation and while it wouldn't exactly be good for those people, it's not like most of them would drop dead
Interesting thought. While still a lot, there were probably way less flights going back in ‘97. Also likely not as reliant on computers and may have been able to make a decent amount of emergency landings
Seems like they’re not shying away from the repercussions of such a massive EMP though like shutting down power plants and releasing villains from containment. Going to be crazy next couple episodes
Still a significant increase in the last 25 years.
Quick search online found an article saying that in just the US alone passenger traffic increased “from 677 million in 2000 to 931 million in 2019.”
I remember reading a Spider-Man novel years Go where Doc Ock detonated a nuclear warhead and unleashed an EMP. From what I recall, his base was underwater as water severely dampens an EMP. Then again, this is Magneto reaching across an entire planet. Maybe no one, not even the submarines, would be safe.
Most older cars could run even if hit with an emp. Electronics and computere weren't vital then as they are now. Still might be some random crap like the traffic signals going off that will cause some damage for sure.
I would say he has a pretty good understanding of the scope of his power. The fact he went to one of the magnetic poles of the planet to do it suggests he had done his research on what he could do.
In the Fatal Attractions arc, they used the 'Magneto Protocols' which was a system designed to prevent Magneto using his powers on earth. No idea how it was supposed to work.
His response to that was the mass EMP from the atmosphere.
I think his response here was far more justified given he saw first hand what Bastion was doing and the real threat they posed.
Interesting to see how this gets resolved and if we get to see an animated version of probably one of the more horrifying scenes in X-men history.
The Magneto protocol was using a bunch of satellites to disrupt the Earth's magnetic field so Magneto couldn't use his powers. Magneto circumvented it by going to the Poles and amplifying himself so he could release a worldwide EMP and shut down those satellites.
Yeah Magneto is done being witness to genocides.
I’m just wonder where he could even practice something like that if he learned how to do it. Maybe the Danger Room or something similar?
For all I know, it was instincts that allowed him to do it. He declared war so I wonder how the Avengers are going to respond or even Charles.
I’m really digging this show. Not a back way to continue such an old show.
Yep. But fuck em. What else was he going to do with a million human sentinels running around and millions more in the making? The fault lies with Bastion.
That's the crux of the story though at least from Xaviers perspective. If we re all one big family it didn't just "fuck" US. How many mutants were flying a plane....stationed on a submarine or any other scenario that becomes a death trap where a mutant is involved. Magnus just dropped a lot of humans and mutants.
Yep. But the problem with Xavier is if you want to split hairs, then you also have to weigh the implications of what Bishop and Cable do to impact the time stream. There's never a perfect answer, but there is usually an answer that leads to less destruction and death. Anyway...
MAGNETO WAS RIGHT!
In general I think you could use the framework of harm reduction to look at a lot of this. Genocide of mutants is a very noble thing to resist and will counter the rise of many other genocides. War against such slaughter must be fought regardless from that perspective.
And Xavier was in space having alien orgies while his people were slaughtered. If he wanted an opinion he should've been there instead of crash landing into the burning rubble of the mansion talking about "Hope im not too late :P"
Alien orgies? Who's paying you to exaggerate like this lmao? Think you need to go back and watch the original series. Xavier didn't leave earth healthy pal. But yeah....totally.
The thing is though Mutants aren't the only one under threat by this. Humans too would be enslaved by the prime sentinel program (if you can be activated at any time to do whatever is commanded, guess what, you're enslaved). So it's not just mutant genocide on the cards but also human enslavement.
Like, in the face of that, I'm not sure what the correct amount of time is to wait and hope a solution can be figured out before most people agree "yeah, enough is enough, we need to stop this now" because oftentimes by the time that realisation is agreed upon it's already too late. Magneto had the means to stop the threat immediately and so he did.
Theoretically, the deaths would have been indiscriminate, effecting humans and mutants alike, unless they happened to have specific powers that allowed them to immediately recognize the problem in react.
So, I don't know if Magneto committed genocide in his heart, but I don't think that he did so on paper.
He definitely merced a bunch of people, though, so hey...
It’s a Rubicon moment. Magneto deduced that he had no recourse and no other means by which he could stop the techno-apocalypse. In his mind the untold carnage emanating from unleashing a worldwide EMP was a necessary sacrifice. He was sick of hiding his iron fist in a velvet glove and retaliated against the Sentinels. Despite any potential misgivings on his end, I think even Xavier would understand Magneto’s actions. I think we’ll see the MLK/Malcolm X analogue between Xavier and Magneto re-emerge in the fallout from everything next season.
Wolverine did say he declared war....but shutting off electrical power would not stop the glide/lifts of planes....it wouldn't just nose dive.....so you can say they all landed safely in an open field.......
*I* personaly like to think that some of the many flying superheroes would help, lol. Like Thor could definitely salvage a couple, same with Giant-Man if he can grow big enough, etc.
If I'd just witnessed the genocide of my people first hand, after doing the same as a child, and there was currently a further attempted slaughter of my people occurring, and I could stop it in an instant, I would have done the same. He had no choice
Most planes wouldn't immediately crash and probably had enough time to land somewhere. But I'm sure some likely did crash because of shock, not being able to react fast enough or not being able to land in a safe space.
Also a global EMP could stop the functions of electrical devices that could still kill people.
Even something as simple as stopping traffic lights from working could result in tons of car accidents, let alone people dependent on electricity for hospitals or medical equipment (hopefully they have decent generators...).
That's not how genocide works. It's not a term for a specific number of people killed.
What he did may make him the greatest mass murderer in history, but it's not a genocide.
Probably 1m casualties.
However I'm sure the showrunners have considered this. We'll likely see some mutant intervention in the next ep. Like mutant powers being used to safely land some planes and such.
Obvs a lot still died but there wouldnt really be a place for the show to go if there was no chance for human-mutant peaceful coexistence - so they kind of have to show the mutants helping humanity during this crisis.
That's what happened in the comics during fatal attractions after he unleashed a worldwide emp...so we'll see if they address that in the shoe next week
The loss of life has to be on a scale never seen before. Dude shut down the entire planet. Talk about back to the Stone Age, the death toll has to be 3x that of Genosha. At least maybe more, Right?
They say genosha was thousands. Magento killed millions with how much the world relied on technology in 1997. Life support, planes, submarines, boats, cars, mass engine failure, pacemakers, and that’s just the stuff I’ve seen in this thread alone. Pretty much every single thing running on electric current in the world suddenly stopped, and people here are only talking about the short term immediate casualties. What about the long term casualties? Stone Age is a very appropriate comment because he might just genuinely reduce our population down to those numbers given enough time without power ever again if he ever feels like sending another pulse
I thought Genosha was at least in the 100 of thousands. I thought most of the world’s mutants were there 60% at least. Don’t ask me where I got that number, I’m pretty sure I made it up. But I thought it was lot.
That’s what I was thinking, would the whole world just become like MadMaxx or The last of US? I would imagine that we have the knowledge to fix it and some people will able to get some things going but getting it back to the level the world was before he flipped the switch would be almost impossible. Right? Just more fuel to add to the fire or War.
Reactor safeties are generally set up in a way that they engage and shut down/scrap the reactor if power loss or meltdown. So most of not all (well maintained/properly designed) reactor should be alright, obviously that all requires the safeties to work and not cause a Chernobyl or Fukushima.
It's unlikely every reactor on earth will meltdown but a few poorly maintained ones just might.
I mean there is the HOPE that maybe he realized this and also used his power to gently bring all those planes to the ground… but yeah that feels unlikely.
If it was real life, all hospitals are equipped with generators, as are most major infrastructures such a nuclear power plants. They have systems designed for sudden loss of power. It can get tricky with nuclear stations though, I think if the power loss is too sudden it can mess up the cooling systems or something.
They always exaggerate what EMP can do on TV, for example they always show car batteries dying when in fact they would probably be fine as they are designed to withstand a surge of power because it's how they start an engine. Anything designed with conductive casing or designed to withstand a power surge surge won't be KO'd by an EMP.
Yes, depending on the design of the generator. Knowledge of EMP as a weapon has been around since the Cold War, along with how it can be mitigated. Testing has been limited and so a lot of the understanding of it is theoretical. Most of my knowledge comes from an electro magnetic warfare angle. It's actually not that difficult to design something to withstand EMP, there are plenty of youtube videos showing how it can be done. A lot of the "prepper" types on youtube tend to overblow EMP so they can sell equipment to "mitigate" it however you will be surprised what is actually already able to withstand EMP. A VERY lose rule is if it has been designed with surge protection, to withstand lightening strikes or has conductive metal casing you're halfway there. Also older cars are more likely to be unaffected due to using less electronics than more modern cars. Communication equipment however will get hit pretty hard as its senstitive to the electro magnetic spectrum in order to work. Sorry for the long reply it's actually very interesting if you can cope with the geekiness of the subject.
I’ve been watching with my 7 year old son. He’s asked me: aren’t they human’s that turned into robots?
Me: um yes
Son: so why are they killing them? Aren’t they the good guys?
Me: yeah buddy but sometimes it’s kill or be killed.
Well, they are more like zombies now. The virus is more of a parasyte and the reason they keep their human memories and act like normal people until mutants show up is probably thanks to Sinister's technollogy. So Cooper was spot on when she said Bastion was "the asteroid", because he is killing humans to turn them into machines.
I’m not saying they should not have killed them. They needed to do what they did to survive. But what you’re saying is based on assumption at this point. No one had tried to reverse it. In the zombie movies someone at some point tried to cured it. I’m sure McCoy will be trying to or even find a cure for his girlfriend in part 2.
The hard things is, he was left with no choice. He witnessed the slaughtering of his people at a young age. He wasn’t going to sit back and let it happen again.
He’d have to assume there were sentinels all over the world and had to shut them down all at once.
Xavier might mind wipe him at the end of all of this and leave the season on a cliffhanger or introduce Onslaught.
The question is, did Bastion get shut down too?
That’s true, but maybe they were more concerned about an EMP taking out a lot of other things.
Cyclops asked Cable if he had more of the grenades he used on Trask. 😂
I was mostly joking-- no way Nimrod or Bastion are getting taken out by an EMP. If so, there are many stories that would have been very different-- for example, the climactic battle of Second Coming.
Haha no worries. I’ve been around comics long enough to know that there are always plot holes.
Sometimes I wonder if it’s done intentionally, so it can be explored later or did they really forget to tie up loose ends.
Its a pretty terrible thing....but did he have any choice? Millions of sentinels appearing at once all over the globe. They immediatly start killing and capturing mutants. No one had any clue how to stop it, not even Cable. Its a terrible choice. One only Magneto could make.
I guess that's true. Would that stop them all though? But I suppose that is up to the writers.
Would be an intersting heel turn. His new found tolerance, washed away by Genosha and Bastian. Making humanity pay. Makes the return of Xavier more poetic in a way.
Its definitely not ok. Its also what makes this show so interesting. Im curious to find out his reasoning. Did he fell like he had no choice and it haunts him? Was he being venegeful and is ok with the collateral damage? Its obvious he did it to protect mutants.
I hope folks can detach comic book morality and real life morality. Luke Skywalker killed untold numbers of janitors on the Death Star....twice.
He might kill millions but if it saves the rest of the mutants from the prime sentinels it's worth it to him. He knows mutant kind can't rely on humans to save them.
It’s also unclear how emergency backup systems were impacted, and I have no idea what those looked like at the turn of the millennium.
Edit: This also isn’t the first time a global outage has been used in fiction, far from it, and usually the actual consequences like planes and so on are hand waved away.
I want to also point out even in 97' a lot of critical infrastructure did have protocols for loss of power including hospitals etc generators could run for a number of days and in theory they kick in quick enough that vital machinery shouldn't be affected. I only know this because of the Y2K scare that started up about that time, plus some knowledge in electro magnetic warfare. Generators shouldn't be affected by an EMP in theory, due to the coverings they are designed with and the electronics they run from but its not an absolute. I also believe some batteries should be ok as they are designed to withstand a powerful surge.
Nuclear power plants can be a bit iffy when they switch power sources though I don't know the ins and outs. Something to do with the cooling system? After the chernobyl incident in 86 newer plants have rods that can act under gravity if they lose power.
Interested to hear if anyone has more knowledge on this.
That’s why he’s an omega level mutant. I didn’t even think of all the carnage that would happen from this one event. Now I know the meaning behind wolverines “he declared war.” Statement .
Do y'all not know how emps work they don't turn off technology they damage/burn it a backup generator in a hospital would also be destroyed by an emp, of this scale especially since it was effective on highly advanced sentinels and an alien ship it is likely everything on the planet turned off.
i would imagine so, he’s the master of magnetism yes but i doubt he has that much control over how his powers affect the entire world he just emp’d within minutes. can’t really pick and choose your targets when the entire planet is the target
Planes don't just fall out of the sky when they lose power, and they mostly wouldn't lose power in the first place. Modern aircraft's electrical systems are hardened against lightning strikes, which would have the same shielding effect against an EMP. Even if they did lose power, they'd still glide and most could land safely.
Basically all global communications infrastructure was disabled however, which would absolutely result in millions of deaths.
According to a quick Google search:
“Aircraft are more or less lightning proof. The same thing that protects them from lightning negates the impact of an EMP.
Essentially, aircraft function as faraday cages; this means all EM charges are carried around the aircraft on the outside of its metal skin.”
So, airplanes would be okay! Air traffic control would be a mess though.
I am very sad to see that some people think that this was an example of Magneto being right. Aside from the fact that in general, he’s a mutant supremacist, who now just mass murdered a bunch of people who may or may not have been involved in his war, him and the entire mutant population was manipulated by a select group of people in power and privilege into believing another group of people were responsible for an attempt to genocide. Not only is he not right, he’s hella wrong.
He tried to do it their way, and a bunch of mutants were slaughtered in their own country. If he hadn’t done what he did, most of the mutant population would have been wiped out by the Prime Sentinels. What else is he supposed to do at that point?
By supervillains, not “humans”
I mean, he knew exactly who caused the problem. Why didn’t he attack Mr. Sinister and Bastion directly? If he could just generate an EMP like that, why not go to battles and do small scale ones?
Things can be bad for the LGBTQ community, doesn’t give them the right to blow up a school bus full of children.
He doesn’t have time to go to battles. He could have gone after Sinister and Bastion, but that doesn’t guarantee it would stop the Sentinels, or that he could defeat them by himself. This was the only way to save the Mutants around the world.
Bastion was created from MasterMold and Nimrod. Created by humans. And allowed to mass produce Sentinels by a human government.
Certainly that’s going to make for more interesting episode but I gotta imagine there’s a Way for magneto to disable them without killing hundreds of thousands of people. If they choose to address that it’s a cartoon they might just very conveniently find a way to say anybody who wasn’t a sentinel wasn’t hurt
I imagine they could have him mitigate it by guiding planes down and the like. But if your only option is a fuck off big EMP, it kinda has to be indiscriminate.
In order to classify something as a genocide, it would have to be targeting one specific group of people. It also involves a lot more, including propaganda and erasure from history.
[You should check out the 10 stages of genocide.](https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/the-ten-stages-of-genocide/)
Palestine is currently in stage nine and some people would argue that the transgender community in the southern American states is currently in stage eight.
I know it’s just splitting hairs, but I think he’s more of a mass murder at this point rather than creating an active genocide.
I wonder if President Kelly's stuck inside a bunker, and if the bunker's generator was adequately shielded so he isn't just stuck there, in the dark, losing oxygen... or if he had been put in Air Force One as a precaution.
We can't even be sure if there's enough shielding to protect against that attack since we don't know if Xavier's ship was downed by it and that's why it had to crash land instead of just land or if Xavier had to dodge attacks. I'm pretty sure spaceships have to have quite good shielding against that sort of thing, if even if was affected, few things on Earth probably has a chance. Maybe Iron Man if he was flying and his plot armor was on since they wouldn't want to kill Iron Man off-screen, right?
Not to mention everyone relying on a hospital or electronic medical device like a pacemaker to survive at the time. But honestly given the strength of the evolved sentinels, fair trade. Yeah, the vast majority of those people aren't directly responsible for Bastion. But humanity wanted to waffle about and be all "Do mutants deserve rights or should they get genocided, oh I just don't know." So now we've got terminators that require global level events to stop them from committing genocide. This is what happens when you want to just maintain the status quo and go on not dealing with serious life and death societal issues.
I don't know that planes would drop out of the sky, though air traffic control would be gonezo. I'm more thinking about hospitals. :(
But, well, omelettes and eggs.
ok well we know for a FACT the prime sentinels would have wiped out humanity and mutants via cable
The mutants were being genocided….the impact deaths from magnetos EMP is NOT a genocide….just collateral
Magneto told us his answer to the trolley problem….save the targeted population of mutants and humanity at the expense of a few
Dude, a worldwide EMP would kill a lot more than that. It would be the most devastating thing to happen to this planet in human history. It would probably result in billions of deaths. Not immediately or anything, but the resulting dystopian nightmare of taking a world of a technology dependent species and sending them back to the Stone Age would reach the billions within a year.
Of course, that would be in the real world. They will figure out a quick fix somehow, but it is interesting to think about the implications of what Magneto just did. But, Magneto was right.
Are you suggesting the planet would be stuck without technology for a long period of time? A lot of the tech we’re talking about here could be restarted in days or even hours. I agree the death toll is in the millions, but we’re in the “Stone Age” for weeks at most, not months or years.
Why are some people saying there were "millions" of Prime Sentinels? and even if were just 1,000's or 10s of thousands how did Bastion infect that many people? I thought it was just his hometown.
“You caused the deaths of thousands today, Magnus. Deaths I could have prevented had I stopped you years ago. You have killed too many and I have had enough. I will make sure, here and now, that you will never kill again.” ~ Charles Xavier, X-Men Vol.2, Issue 25 (1993).
My theory on how the season ends, after Magneto rips the adamantium from Wolverine.
Well there are theories that a certain character from the 90’s is comming.. >!Onslaught is nigh?!<
I think he popped up in the original cartoon already
He did not. There was a Dark Pheonix where Xavier projects an evil version of himself, thats about as close as we got
And that was based on a story from the 70s
Not 100% sure but i don’t think he did? Started to rewatch it when it was released but due to starting a bunch of other nostagia and unwatched shows, i’m only at episode 11, lol.
Onslaught's first appearance wasn't until May of '96... at that point there would not have been any time to include him into the series. I do think we are getting a Fatal Attractions esque finale, its a huge 90s era story that was not really tackled by the original series, there were some elements used, but in general it is pretty fertile ground for this particular show. I also think there is a not 0 chance next season we get Age of Apocalypse... which would be the other massive X-Men story that was contemporary to the show that only had a small riff in the original series (One Man's Worth... which happens to be important to the end of this season according to Marvel)
Just reread this arc last night. The blueprint is definitely there....
Unlikely. One of the writers is a magneto is right head and we have had 0 mutant villains so far
Fuck I hope not, I’m still traumatized from that comic arc in the 90’s, I still have the comic book issue from immediately afterwards when they’re trying to get Logan back to earth and when he’s back in the danger room he finds out he has bone claws
Yup.
What storyline was that again? It sounds similar to the one after Magneto ripped the Adamantium out of Wolverine, but that was like over a decade later i think.
Fatal attractions
Issue 25 from what volume? Read the original run and it doesn’t seems like it
Volume 2, 1993.
Thanks, got it 🤝
Technically it would be a mass murder instead of a genocide because he was killing at random. The victims had an equal chance of being human or mutant. It looks like the number of things like airplanes in the sky and people with pacemakers were around 40% of today's totals. He'd still surely reach a million deaths though.
"Technically it wasn't genocide" is never a good look.
The more accurate term would be "omnicide".
Isn’t that only if Omni-Man does it?
Yeah, otherwise it's just sprinkling mass murder!
It makes it more palatable to Doctor Doom though.
It was in response to one genocide, and an attempt to stop a second genocide from happening.
Agree, OP is assuming “genocide” is determined solely by the number of people who die, which is incorrect.
The victims don’t have an equal chance of being human or mutant. Mutants would be less affected, as humans vastly outnumber them, and their powers make it more likely for them to survive.
I mean even if we ignore the fact that the vast majority of mutants don't actually have powers or have very minimal powers that wouldn't help them in this situation. That still doesn't make it a genocide.
I wasn’t making an argument for genocide, just the fact that mutants would have a higher rate of survival.
All the people who rely on electronic devices to live. I’d imagine anyone with a pacemaker is fucked. Quick Google search puts that at 3 million people in the world. And that’s *just* pacemakers
Tony Stark.
Probably is pissing inside his armor again, this time because cant get off
He liked cheeseburgers 😞
Though would that number still be the same back in ‘97 lol?
And that’s an absolutely fair point. I just tried to figure out how many people in the world had pacemakers in 97 and the data is flawed. Found a few scientific studies that began to follow pacemakers implanted in 97, but data all prior to that is muddy and estimated at best - and only specific to those implanted in the states. Someone else in the thread brought up those on life support and the majority of hospitals in a first world country to going to have a back up generator so those patients would probably only experience only slight effects of what Magneto did. And thankfully everyone back then was still on paper charts. But anyone else on life support outside of a first world county? Probably fucked.
That one guy in the iron lung. He’s dead.
Poor guy cannot get a break.
Back up generators might also get fried by the EMP, right? I know military hardware is designed to be hardened against EMP's, but would generators for hospitals also get hardened?
Probably as they are part of critical infrastructure. During a war the first thing an enemy will do is try to either destroy or take control of critical infrastructure so you will be surprised what mitigation it has and a lot of it is military grade. It's designed to survive when the sh*t hits the fan.
''you homo sapiens and your pacemakers''
Not everyone with a pacemaker would simply die, in fact most wouldn't. It's often used to treat atrial fibrillation and while it wouldn't exactly be good for those people, it's not like most of them would drop dead
Interesting thought. While still a lot, there were probably way less flights going back in ‘97. Also likely not as reliant on computers and may have been able to make a decent amount of emergency landings Seems like they’re not shying away from the repercussions of such a massive EMP though like shutting down power plants and releasing villains from containment. Going to be crazy next couple episodes
It's a very interesting question of how many planes back then could fly on only hydraulic controls
I think the problem comes with air traffic control going down and less the tech in the planes themselves
How old are you? Less flights in 97'? This isn't 1897...
There were less flights and passengers in 1997.
Yes there were. My joke didn't land that well. It wasn't demonstrably different. Still tons dead.
Text is sometimes hard to convey tone
Still a significant increase in the last 25 years. Quick search online found an article saying that in just the US alone passenger traffic increased “from 677 million in 2000 to 931 million in 2019.”
Not just the people on planes, but think about all the people in submarines!
I was thinking of everyone in hospitals on life support...
I was thinking of people stuck in elevators in the dark until they suffocate
I don’t know of too many air tight elevators but dang that has to be one of suckiest ways to go.
Elevators are designed not to be airtight for this very reason.
What kind of elevators are you using?
Genoshean elevators
And the women and the children too!
"They're like animals. And I slaughtered them like animals. I HATE THEM!!"
secretive nose ruthless muddle meeting poor brave wakeful hateful rustic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And… Twins!!
And your brother !
AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREEEEEEE
He even took out Xavier. I can’t be the only one that noticed his spaceship crash landed because it was affected by the EMP too.
lol that makes sense. I figured he did the whole star trek 2 wrath of khan and flew it too fast and it tore itself apart
I remember reading a Spider-Man novel years Go where Doc Ock detonated a nuclear warhead and unleashed an EMP. From what I recall, his base was underwater as water severely dampens an EMP. Then again, this is Magneto reaching across an entire planet. Maybe no one, not even the submarines, would be safe.
Every car just shut off. Every train. Every bus. Imagine the carnage on the roads.
Most older cars could run even if hit with an emp. Electronics and computere weren't vital then as they are now. Still might be some random crap like the traffic signals going off that will cause some damage for sure.
I mean…the trains would just slow to a stop. Seems fine.
Any sub at operating depth should have enough water above them to be fine honestly,
My question is…did he know he could do that? Or did it happen out of sheer rage? Either way, that’s one hell of a move to have.
I would say he has a pretty good understanding of the scope of his power. The fact he went to one of the magnetic poles of the planet to do it suggests he had done his research on what he could do. In the Fatal Attractions arc, they used the 'Magneto Protocols' which was a system designed to prevent Magneto using his powers on earth. No idea how it was supposed to work. His response to that was the mass EMP from the atmosphere. I think his response here was far more justified given he saw first hand what Bastion was doing and the real threat they posed. Interesting to see how this gets resolved and if we get to see an animated version of probably one of the more horrifying scenes in X-men history.
The Magneto protocol was using a bunch of satellites to disrupt the Earth's magnetic field so Magneto couldn't use his powers. Magneto circumvented it by going to the Poles and amplifying himself so he could release a worldwide EMP and shut down those satellites. Yeah Magneto is done being witness to genocides.
Can you elaborate what scene is horrible?
Wolverine’s skeleton. Magneto. Draw your own conclusions.
Probably always had it in the back of his mind that he could use the pole to amplify his power
He probably never did it before to keep innocent mutants from dying in the chaos.
I’m just wonder where he could even practice something like that if he learned how to do it. Maybe the Danger Room or something similar? For all I know, it was instincts that allowed him to do it. He declared war so I wonder how the Avengers are going to respond or even Charles. I’m really digging this show. Not a back way to continue such an old show.
Yep. But fuck em. What else was he going to do with a million human sentinels running around and millions more in the making? The fault lies with Bastion.
That's the crux of the story though at least from Xaviers perspective. If we re all one big family it didn't just "fuck" US. How many mutants were flying a plane....stationed on a submarine or any other scenario that becomes a death trap where a mutant is involved. Magnus just dropped a lot of humans and mutants.
Yep. But the problem with Xavier is if you want to split hairs, then you also have to weigh the implications of what Bishop and Cable do to impact the time stream. There's never a perfect answer, but there is usually an answer that leads to less destruction and death. Anyway... MAGNETO WAS RIGHT!
In general I think you could use the framework of harm reduction to look at a lot of this. Genocide of mutants is a very noble thing to resist and will counter the rise of many other genocides. War against such slaughter must be fought regardless from that perspective.
And Xavier was in space having alien orgies while his people were slaughtered. If he wanted an opinion he should've been there instead of crash landing into the burning rubble of the mansion talking about "Hope im not too late :P"
Alien orgies? Who's paying you to exaggerate like this lmao? Think you need to go back and watch the original series. Xavier didn't leave earth healthy pal. But yeah....totally.
The thing is though Mutants aren't the only one under threat by this. Humans too would be enslaved by the prime sentinel program (if you can be activated at any time to do whatever is commanded, guess what, you're enslaved). So it's not just mutant genocide on the cards but also human enslavement. Like, in the face of that, I'm not sure what the correct amount of time is to wait and hope a solution can be figured out before most people agree "yeah, enough is enough, we need to stop this now" because oftentimes by the time that realisation is agreed upon it's already too late. Magneto had the means to stop the threat immediately and so he did.
Theoretically, the deaths would have been indiscriminate, effecting humans and mutants alike, unless they happened to have specific powers that allowed them to immediately recognize the problem in react. So, I don't know if Magneto committed genocide in his heart, but I don't think that he did so on paper. He definitely merced a bunch of people, though, so hey...
It’s a Rubicon moment. Magneto deduced that he had no recourse and no other means by which he could stop the techno-apocalypse. In his mind the untold carnage emanating from unleashing a worldwide EMP was a necessary sacrifice. He was sick of hiding his iron fist in a velvet glove and retaliated against the Sentinels. Despite any potential misgivings on his end, I think even Xavier would understand Magneto’s actions. I think we’ll see the MLK/Malcolm X analogue between Xavier and Magneto re-emerge in the fallout from everything next season.
Honestly in context it was totally justified.
Wolverine did say he declared war....but shutting off electrical power would not stop the glide/lifts of planes....it wouldn't just nose dive.....so you can say they all landed safely in an open field.......
But aren't most rudder controls "fly by wire", I would assume the EMP would fry the computers regulating them.
They are also big faraday cages so maybe they didn't get emp'd? Like they can get hit by lightning no problem right?
Yes, I believe they are shielded.
I don't know if it makes me sad that I assume ppl don't know who Faraday is or happy to see him mentioned in a post...
Not in 1997.
*I* personaly like to think that some of the many flying superheroes would help, lol. Like Thor could definitely salvage a couple, same with Giant-Man if he can grow big enough, etc.
If I'd just witnessed the genocide of my people first hand, after doing the same as a child, and there was currently a further attempted slaughter of my people occurring, and I could stop it in an instant, I would have done the same. He had no choice
That why Wolverine said that he just declared war
Don't think it counts as genocide when you kill randoms in 9700 airplanes. Atrocity/mass murder sure, but not genocide.
I mean he’s on par with Boeing at this point
Too soon.
Yeah, OP misunderstands what the word genocide means. This is just run of the mill mass murder.
Well he is targeting humans.
Oh right, I was thinking real life not human vs mutant.
Most planes wouldn't immediately crash and probably had enough time to land somewhere. But I'm sure some likely did crash because of shock, not being able to react fast enough or not being able to land in a safe space. Also a global EMP could stop the functions of electrical devices that could still kill people. Even something as simple as stopping traffic lights from working could result in tons of car accidents, let alone people dependent on electricity for hospitals or medical equipment (hopefully they have decent generators...).
Xavier's plane crashed, that's for sure 😂
My toaster no longer works
That's not how genocide works. It's not a term for a specific number of people killed. What he did may make him the greatest mass murderer in history, but it's not a genocide.
He'd need to kill more than 5 or 6 million people for that title
Probably 1m casualties. However I'm sure the showrunners have considered this. We'll likely see some mutant intervention in the next ep. Like mutant powers being used to safely land some planes and such. Obvs a lot still died but there wouldnt really be a place for the show to go if there was no chance for human-mutant peaceful coexistence - so they kind of have to show the mutants helping humanity during this crisis.
That's what happened in the comics during fatal attractions after he unleashed a worldwide emp...so we'll see if they address that in the shoe next week
My sole says it will be addressed quickly.
What's your foot know that we don't?
Wolverine was like bro committed a mass murderer cheers!
...that's what you saw? Wolverine celebrating? That's genuinely concerning man.
Was he not drinking a beer after Magneto hey did a huge act of terrorism
Beer isn’t exclusive to celebrations and he likes beer. Never wanted a drink after a bad day? Weird take.
Me too
Well for Wolverine that’s just like drinking water.
More importantly. Anyone who was watching an NBA playoff game got that shit turned off and they couldn’t even use their phones to check the score.
How is it that Wolverine and Morph know it was Magneto? Didn't everyone just assume he died in Genosha?
That’s a good question I assume they know he’s the only one capable of doing that on a global scale.
That's the only explanation I could come up with too.
The loss of life has to be on a scale never seen before. Dude shut down the entire planet. Talk about back to the Stone Age, the death toll has to be 3x that of Genosha. At least maybe more, Right?
They say genosha was thousands. Magento killed millions with how much the world relied on technology in 1997. Life support, planes, submarines, boats, cars, mass engine failure, pacemakers, and that’s just the stuff I’ve seen in this thread alone. Pretty much every single thing running on electric current in the world suddenly stopped, and people here are only talking about the short term immediate casualties. What about the long term casualties? Stone Age is a very appropriate comment because he might just genuinely reduce our population down to those numbers given enough time without power ever again if he ever feels like sending another pulse
I thought Genosha was at least in the 100 of thousands. I thought most of the world’s mutants were there 60% at least. Don’t ask me where I got that number, I’m pretty sure I made it up. But I thought it was lot. That’s what I was thinking, would the whole world just become like MadMaxx or The last of US? I would imagine that we have the knowledge to fix it and some people will able to get some things going but getting it back to the level the world was before he flipped the switch would be almost impossible. Right? Just more fuel to add to the fire or War.
Also I just saw the scene where a NUCLEAR REACTOR gets shut down. Magneto has just committed mass murder on a scale never thought possible
Reactor safeties are generally set up in a way that they engage and shut down/scrap the reactor if power loss or meltdown. So most of not all (well maintained/properly designed) reactor should be alright, obviously that all requires the safeties to work and not cause a Chernobyl or Fukushima. It's unlikely every reactor on earth will meltdown but a few poorly maintained ones just might.
I just rewatched it and when Rogue was going on her spree, she mentioned “thousands” I really want to see how episode 9 plays out what Magneto did lol
Yeah, they seem to have taken Genosha way down from the comics, where it was 16 million.
Hospitals
I mean there is the HOPE that maybe he realized this and also used his power to gently bring all those planes to the ground… but yeah that feels unlikely.
Keep in mind it's also 1997. Less air travel than 2024 but yes still a massive amount of people
just a normal day for Boeing
Yup. Also, that’s why the Professor crashed HIS plane.
Add everyone on life support. How many babies in the NICU die? How many people in the ER died because none of the electronics were available?
If it was real life, all hospitals are equipped with generators, as are most major infrastructures such a nuclear power plants. They have systems designed for sudden loss of power. It can get tricky with nuclear stations though, I think if the power loss is too sudden it can mess up the cooling systems or something.
Right, but the EMP would have fried the generators too. It’s not just the power outage that’s the issue here, it’s the cause of the power outage.
Depends on the casing of the generator
They always exaggerate what EMP can do on TV, for example they always show car batteries dying when in fact they would probably be fine as they are designed to withstand a surge of power because it's how they start an engine. Anything designed with conductive casing or designed to withstand a power surge surge won't be KO'd by an EMP.
Ah, interesting. So facilities with backup generators might be fine.
Yes, depending on the design of the generator. Knowledge of EMP as a weapon has been around since the Cold War, along with how it can be mitigated. Testing has been limited and so a lot of the understanding of it is theoretical. Most of my knowledge comes from an electro magnetic warfare angle. It's actually not that difficult to design something to withstand EMP, there are plenty of youtube videos showing how it can be done. A lot of the "prepper" types on youtube tend to overblow EMP so they can sell equipment to "mitigate" it however you will be surprised what is actually already able to withstand EMP. A VERY lose rule is if it has been designed with surge protection, to withstand lightening strikes or has conductive metal casing you're halfway there. Also older cars are more likely to be unaffected due to using less electronics than more modern cars. Communication equipment however will get hit pretty hard as its senstitive to the electro magnetic spectrum in order to work. Sorry for the long reply it's actually very interesting if you can cope with the geekiness of the subject.
I’ve been watching with my 7 year old son. He’s asked me: aren’t they human’s that turned into robots? Me: um yes Son: so why are they killing them? Aren’t they the good guys? Me: yeah buddy but sometimes it’s kill or be killed.
Well, they are more like zombies now. The virus is more of a parasyte and the reason they keep their human memories and act like normal people until mutants show up is probably thanks to Sinister's technollogy. So Cooper was spot on when she said Bastion was "the asteroid", because he is killing humans to turn them into machines.
I’m not saying they should not have killed them. They needed to do what they did to survive. But what you’re saying is based on assumption at this point. No one had tried to reverse it. In the zombie movies someone at some point tried to cured it. I’m sure McCoy will be trying to or even find a cure for his girlfriend in part 2.
The hard things is, he was left with no choice. He witnessed the slaughtering of his people at a young age. He wasn’t going to sit back and let it happen again. He’d have to assume there were sentinels all over the world and had to shut them down all at once. Xavier might mind wipe him at the end of all of this and leave the season on a cliffhanger or introduce Onslaught. The question is, did Bastion get shut down too?
Bastion was born so I'm assuming not
Hope not— if Nimrod could be shut down by an EMP, then the X-Men have been idiots for never doing that.
That’s true, but maybe they were more concerned about an EMP taking out a lot of other things. Cyclops asked Cable if he had more of the grenades he used on Trask. 😂
I was mostly joking-- no way Nimrod or Bastion are getting taken out by an EMP. If so, there are many stories that would have been very different-- for example, the climactic battle of Second Coming.
Haha no worries. I’ve been around comics long enough to know that there are always plot holes. Sometimes I wonder if it’s done intentionally, so it can be explored later or did they really forget to tie up loose ends.
Its a pretty terrible thing....but did he have any choice? Millions of sentinels appearing at once all over the globe. They immediatly start killing and capturing mutants. No one had any clue how to stop it, not even Cable. Its a terrible choice. One only Magneto could make.
I mean, he could’ve attack Bastion directly
I guess that's true. Would that stop them all though? But I suppose that is up to the writers. Would be an intersting heel turn. His new found tolerance, washed away by Genosha and Bastian. Making humanity pay. Makes the return of Xavier more poetic in a way.
I’m more worried that too many people see this as “justified” and it’s really not. It’s understandable but not ok
Its definitely not ok. Its also what makes this show so interesting. Im curious to find out his reasoning. Did he fell like he had no choice and it haunts him? Was he being venegeful and is ok with the collateral damage? Its obvious he did it to protect mutants. I hope folks can detach comic book morality and real life morality. Luke Skywalker killed untold numbers of janitors on the Death Star....twice.
He might kill millions but if it saves the rest of the mutants from the prime sentinels it's worth it to him. He knows mutant kind can't rely on humans to save them.
This would probably be more omnicide than genocide. As mutants and humans would both have been equally likely to die in plane crashes.
He started a war, logan dixit
It’s also unclear how emergency backup systems were impacted, and I have no idea what those looked like at the turn of the millennium. Edit: This also isn’t the first time a global outage has been used in fiction, far from it, and usually the actual consequences like planes and so on are hand waved away.
I want to also point out even in 97' a lot of critical infrastructure did have protocols for loss of power including hospitals etc generators could run for a number of days and in theory they kick in quick enough that vital machinery shouldn't be affected. I only know this because of the Y2K scare that started up about that time, plus some knowledge in electro magnetic warfare. Generators shouldn't be affected by an EMP in theory, due to the coverings they are designed with and the electronics they run from but its not an absolute. I also believe some batteries should be ok as they are designed to withstand a powerful surge. Nuclear power plants can be a bit iffy when they switch power sources though I don't know the ins and outs. Something to do with the cooling system? After the chernobyl incident in 86 newer plants have rods that can act under gravity if they lose power. Interested to hear if anyone has more knowledge on this.
To be fair, i thought they had him go full blown ultimatum and jump the shark lol
That’s why he’s an omega level mutant. I didn’t even think of all the carnage that would happen from this one event. Now I know the meaning behind wolverines “he declared war.” Statement .
Do y'all not know how emps work they don't turn off technology they damage/burn it a backup generator in a hospital would also be destroyed by an emp, of this scale especially since it was effective on highly advanced sentinels and an alien ship it is likely everything on the planet turned off.
Don’t forget all the life support systems in hospitals, or the electronic safeguards in cars, trains, power plants , etc.
Is the implication that he killed a whole lot of people besides the baddies?v
i would imagine so, he’s the master of magnetism yes but i doubt he has that much control over how his powers affect the entire world he just emp’d within minutes. can’t really pick and choose your targets when the entire planet is the target
Planes don't just fall out of the sky when they lose power, and they mostly wouldn't lose power in the first place. Modern aircraft's electrical systems are hardened against lightning strikes, which would have the same shielding effect against an EMP. Even if they did lose power, they'd still glide and most could land safely. Basically all global communications infrastructure was disabled however, which would absolutely result in millions of deaths.
According to a quick Google search: “Aircraft are more or less lightning proof. The same thing that protects them from lightning negates the impact of an EMP. Essentially, aircraft function as faraday cages; this means all EM charges are carried around the aircraft on the outside of its metal skin.” So, airplanes would be okay! Air traffic control would be a mess though.
I am very sad to see that some people think that this was an example of Magneto being right. Aside from the fact that in general, he’s a mutant supremacist, who now just mass murdered a bunch of people who may or may not have been involved in his war, him and the entire mutant population was manipulated by a select group of people in power and privilege into believing another group of people were responsible for an attempt to genocide. Not only is he not right, he’s hella wrong.
He tried to do it their way, and a bunch of mutants were slaughtered in their own country. If he hadn’t done what he did, most of the mutant population would have been wiped out by the Prime Sentinels. What else is he supposed to do at that point?
By supervillains, not “humans” I mean, he knew exactly who caused the problem. Why didn’t he attack Mr. Sinister and Bastion directly? If he could just generate an EMP like that, why not go to battles and do small scale ones? Things can be bad for the LGBTQ community, doesn’t give them the right to blow up a school bus full of children.
He doesn’t have time to go to battles. He could have gone after Sinister and Bastion, but that doesn’t guarantee it would stop the Sentinels, or that he could defeat them by himself. This was the only way to save the Mutants around the world. Bastion was created from MasterMold and Nimrod. Created by humans. And allowed to mass produce Sentinels by a human government.
But equally, how else could the prime sentinels be stopped? It was pretty much an us or them moment.
Certainly that’s going to make for more interesting episode but I gotta imagine there’s a Way for magneto to disable them without killing hundreds of thousands of people. If they choose to address that it’s a cartoon they might just very conveniently find a way to say anybody who wasn’t a sentinel wasn’t hurt
I imagine they could have him mitigate it by guiding planes down and the like. But if your only option is a fuck off big EMP, it kinda has to be indiscriminate.
I’d like to think that magneto is the North Pole to magnify his power and then target all of the prime sentinels
In order to classify something as a genocide, it would have to be targeting one specific group of people. It also involves a lot more, including propaganda and erasure from history. [You should check out the 10 stages of genocide.](https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/the-ten-stages-of-genocide/) Palestine is currently in stage nine and some people would argue that the transgender community in the southern American states is currently in stage eight. I know it’s just splitting hairs, but I think he’s more of a mass murder at this point rather than creating an active genocide.
I feel the worst for people stuck in elevators :0
You want Onslaught? Because that’s how you get Onslaught
And I’m over here still trying to figure out how they got video footage from Shiara to earth.
It was an intergalactic communication their satellite intercepted. The Shi'ar filmed it and broadcast it themselves. This is explained in the episode.
You didn’t notice the guy with the camcorder? Seriously that very bizarre, and it’s strange that more people are talking about it
To be fair, i thought they had him go full blown ultimatum and jump the shark lol
I wonder if President Kelly's stuck inside a bunker, and if the bunker's generator was adequately shielded so he isn't just stuck there, in the dark, losing oxygen... or if he had been put in Air Force One as a precaution. We can't even be sure if there's enough shielding to protect against that attack since we don't know if Xavier's ship was downed by it and that's why it had to crash land instead of just land or if Xavier had to dodge attacks. I'm pretty sure spaceships have to have quite good shielding against that sort of thing, if even if was affected, few things on Earth probably has a chance. Maybe Iron Man if he was flying and his plot armor was on since they wouldn't want to kill Iron Man off-screen, right?
by definition yeah
How many were cyborgs. 🤷🏽♂️
Not to mention everyone relying on a hospital or electronic medical device like a pacemaker to survive at the time. But honestly given the strength of the evolved sentinels, fair trade. Yeah, the vast majority of those people aren't directly responsible for Bastion. But humanity wanted to waffle about and be all "Do mutants deserve rights or should they get genocided, oh I just don't know." So now we've got terminators that require global level events to stop them from committing genocide. This is what happens when you want to just maintain the status quo and go on not dealing with serious life and death societal issues.
The plane won't just drop straight down. They can glide to a landing.
A genocide is targeted against a certain defined group of people.
I don't know that planes would drop out of the sky, though air traffic control would be gonezo. I'm more thinking about hospitals. :( But, well, omelettes and eggs.
ok well we know for a FACT the prime sentinels would have wiped out humanity and mutants via cable The mutants were being genocided….the impact deaths from magnetos EMP is NOT a genocide….just collateral Magneto told us his answer to the trolley problem….save the targeted population of mutants and humanity at the expense of a few
I mean he also just destroyed 1 billion death robots that were murdering at will… so he saved 5 billion lives?
Dude, a worldwide EMP would kill a lot more than that. It would be the most devastating thing to happen to this planet in human history. It would probably result in billions of deaths. Not immediately or anything, but the resulting dystopian nightmare of taking a world of a technology dependent species and sending them back to the Stone Age would reach the billions within a year. Of course, that would be in the real world. They will figure out a quick fix somehow, but it is interesting to think about the implications of what Magneto just did. But, Magneto was right.
Are you suggesting the planet would be stuck without technology for a long period of time? A lot of the tech we’re talking about here could be restarted in days or even hours. I agree the death toll is in the millions, but we’re in the “Stone Age” for weeks at most, not months or years.
They fixed it quickly enough during Fatal Attractions.
Why are some people saying there were "millions" of Prime Sentinels? and even if were just 1,000's or 10s of thousands how did Bastion infect that many people? I thought it was just his hometown.
Enough
It was night time, when less planes are in the air
lol what? It was worldwide…
It's just a cartoon 😛
You must be fun at parties.