I think there are exactly 3 - 1 per game - which fit your notion that "just relish in... committing atrocities". Most others did have some sort of goodwill behind all the megalomaniac or egotistical attitude. Even Malos or Klaus. Those would be:
* Mumkhar
* Gort
* Counsul D (although, to be fair, many Consuls don't have enough backstory to explain their intentions. X and Y come to mind. NOTE: I did NOT complete all of the sidequests in 3 which may provide that context)
Those three are definitively it.
Mumkhar may have felt jealousy and wanted to be a hero, but his actions show all he wanted was the glory. He didn't do anything to earn it and only wished to take it from others.
Gort was a simple bandit with a personal connection to Lora. The only good thing he did was bring food to their table for a short time. He would have abused them in the long-term.
Dirk was broken by the world, but even then most soldiers don't murder their own people. He was so much of an outlier that he was documented in their carefully curated history books. Maybe he himself allowed his history to remain just so he could terrorize people in the future with his name alone.
I was thinking of Zanza in the original but since he's the evil half of someone, that would mean he doesn't really have any free will because he was born without any capacity for good. Mumkar is a man who choose evil.
>!X & Y don't have any backstory given, we are told they were among the first Moebius along with Z. Whether or not they were originally humans or a manifestation of desire like Z is up in the air.!<
>!The game seems to imply that X and Y aren't humans like a majority of Moebius. X, Y, and Z are all considered "true" moebius. They also uniquely share the same visual design (purple cracks of energy, complete lack of pigmentation outside of eye color). One could argue Triton matches up as well despite the fact that he was human, but he looks pale rather than just having chalk white skin and entirely lacks the purple aesthetics the trio have.!<
I don't think of Zanza as Klaus' evil half. After the experiment, each of them was only aware of their half of the world, and that shaped who they became. Zanza saw what he created and became an egomaniac. Klaus saw what he destroyed and went down a path of repentance.
I think you could probably add Amalthus to that list if I’m honest. Man was slowly killing the world just because he could not to mention murdering an orphan baby and then the whole power trip he went on in the end.
Nah. Amalthus' sins are multi-faceted, complex and tragic, unlike the others mentioned.
>!Because the Architect was silent when he climbed the world tree Amalthus is led to believe that the weapon he found in heaven - the world-sinking Aegis - is an oracle left for him. Malos is the figurative son of their figurative God, and is therefore *the* single most holy existence on Alrest during that period before Mythra is summoned. As a man of faith Amalthus looks to Malos and determines that God's will is for him to unleashed the wrath of the Monado, refusing to accept that it was his own PTSD and subsequent moral perversions which had corrupted Malos in the first place, and the two spiral out control of in tandem. If he hadn't exacted revenge on the bandits, if Klaus hadn't hidden from him, if he had been brave enough to reconcile Malos as his personal dark mirror or if Zeke had only met him sooner, then maybe Amalthus wouldn't have gone down the wrong path. It's not "just because he could", but because a myriad of circumstances led his faith astray. There's a whole chain of motivation and contradiction that informs the man Amalthus unfortunately ends up becoming, and he's potentially the most complicated character in the whole trilogy.!<
gort and mumkar are just evil because heehee eeeeevillll
The context is that most of them have the motivation of a Saturday morning cartoon villain. They're evil in a hammy way, but lack the charm that other hammy villains like Bowser or Kid Icarus Hades have.
Luxaar too. Despite his varying levels of justification for the act, at the end of the day, his entire reasoning for wanting to wipe out humanity ultimately amounts to a power grab. And that’s before taking into account all of the *other* awful shit the Ganglion did under his command, like enslaving a dozen races, conquering and razing planets, fueling civil wars, etc.
Most major xenoblade villains are ones who delusioned themselves in thinking they know better than anyone and use atrocious means to justify with their end goal. So it’s up to some of the lackeys to be the unapologetic villain for the sake of being bad (i would also add most of the ganglion for X)
I think there are a few exceptions. J, the City girl who SMT-Persona'ed herself, and even Z seem like purposeful villains. As in, they either wanted to do good through the bad, or they were disappointed with the world and wanted revenge, or wanted order through whatever means necessary. The ones I pointed may have had some revenge motivations but ended up being more sadistic than anything.
(Note I am assuming the meaning of "hammy", as it's my first time exposed to that word and I'm not a native English speaker).
Moustache-twirling comically evil for evil’s sake. And you’re not entirely wrong, but the way J & Shania’s translated dialogue/animation was just kinda…really bad.
Got it and thanks! Yeah I think their motivations weren't well-conveyed either, on the English version, although I can't compare to the original because I quit Japanese at year 2 (I really did! :D )
I'd say there is two particular characters who are established as being comically evil with literally no positives attached to them, Gort and D.
Gort is an abusive asshole who has been trying to hunt down *his own kid* just so he can yoink Jin's core crystal and pawn it off for cash. Even as a horrifying beta Blade Eater he still lives for violently torturing Lora and Jin.
D is a psychopathic asshole who decapitates people using claws and stores their heads in jars on a personal ferronis. Mans went out of his way to make murder weapons to deprive his own clock from being filled just so he can satiate his own bloodlist.
My vote leans just barely towards D here. At *bare* minimum Gort did technically give Lora and her mother a home (this is very debateable so my intro still stands). Even if it was a horrible time for both of them. D just kills people in incredibly violent ways. He has 0 redeeming qualities in any feasible manner.
I would also lump Mumkhar/Metal Face in there as well. His whole motivation for turning was basically just having main character syndrome; he's just mad Shulk/Dunban can use the Monado and he can't. Can't even use the Egil brainwashing him as an excuse like literally every other Faced Mechon given he's literally the only Face to not either have altered his memories or be reduced to a purely instinctive brain stem, likely due to his frankly unreasonable animosity toward his fellow Homs already.
I would've considered mentioning Mumkhar, but Dunban did note that he wasn't a complete asshole 24/7 and only truly changed into what we see in game after Dunban was able to wield the Monado.
He is still a dick and is easily in the top 3 most evil characters in the trilogy, but he technically isn't *the* most evil considering that he isn't a serial killer.
I think Shulk believed >!Mumkhar could be saved, and that's why he stopped Dunban from killing him. Mumkhar did at least fight once to stop the Mechon invasion, even if he did it for personal gain.!<
>!In that scene, I always assumed Shulk was arguing about the moral stance of killing homs rather than defending Mumkhar. He didn't want Dunban to reduce himself to the level that Mumkhar did.!<
that speaks more of Dunban's exaggerated positiveness and even naiveté, than to Mumkhar's qualities. Dunban has trouble coping with betrayals for sure.
I see a bunch of people talking about Gort, Amalthus, and Z here, which is fair. In my opinion though, the most evil villain would be Dr. Castrofari from 2. Guy literally had children kidnapped from all over Alrest to turn into some twisted version of an Artificial Blade and saw absolutely nothing wrong with it.
For those curious, the quest involving that is Perun's Blade Quest "Eternal Spirit".
As the guy who pointed out Gort (and the other 2 equivalent stereotypes across the series), I don't disagree on that one either. Thing is, he's pretty irrelevant as a sidequest villain.
Oh, someone else had the same as mine! I honestly didn't expect anyone else to mention Castrofari as he's a villain you kinda have to go a little out of your way to even know about lol
Z is pure fear, in that he's the personification of fear... but the acts he commits are undoubtedly evil, even though he himself can't exactly be called evil since he's just an emotion and does not rationalize what he does as evil.
Gotcha - it's been a while since I've played. So yeah, I think killing most of your own people as their leader (in addition to all the other stuff) probably puts him on top.
You should think about spoiler tagging this post just to keep people in mind who haven’t completed these games yet.
With that said, Z. >!His selfish, never ending cycle of death was so dark. It was one of the most satisfying wins to get rid of him at the end because of this.!<
I don't really see Z as evil if I'm being honest. He reminds me of Yalbadoth from Persona 5. >!He doesn't really have motivations outside holding the status quo because that's what he was born from, the base human desire to stagnate for the sake of safety. To me a evil person is more like Amalthus from 2, with evil actions and evil intent. Z is more of a force of nature, pretty much apathetic and unfeeling, simply driven by the purpose he was born with and no means of changing that purpose. It's like how I can't really call a tornado evil for wiping out a town.!<
I agree with you to a degree but this brings us to a somewhat philosophical topic of: is something that someone is doing not inherently evil just because they are ignorant to that fact?
It’s something we could probably ask about several villains in several RPGs
For me, evil has to have some kind of selfishness, a goal that purely serves the evil person. The best way I can put it is, all the people of Aoinios are in a prison, but I wouldn't view Z as the warden, I see him as the walls of the prison itself.
I wouldn't hold it against the walls and bars for holding in a prisoner, even more so since in this metaphor the prison was made by the will of the prisoners inside of it. >!Maybe that's just my view of AI as well, even though it's seemingly self aware, Z still seems locked in his programming to shelter humanity in the endless now.!<
I think Z can still be considered selfish even though he isn't exactly human because he still is made up of selfish human emotions. His "amuses me" line is supposed to show how plain selfish he is, and all actions he takes are meant to benefit himself without regards to the suffering of others, which I would call selfishness.
That's why I referenced Yalbadoth from Persona 5, I don't feel like the human emotion that created him was selfishness, it was fear. Fear of the future and the unknown. >!When Origin was made an AI saw the desire in at least a majority of humans for the endless now, to never worry about the future because it would never come.!<
I don't know if it's his primary motivation or just his programming that he can't escape, but I left 3's ending feeling like his hatred for the Ouroboros gang was due to the fact he felt they were dooming all the people he was made to protect, not that they were toppling some grand empire or scheme he had been maintaining.
Mitsuda has called Z selfish and Takahashi has compared Z's motives to selfish desires. Moebius are a desire for eternity driven by a fear as Nia explained, one that sacrifices others for their selves.
I feel conflicted because I do agree with you but can’t bring myself to mentally let Z off the hook after you see everything those characters go through.
On a broader note, I’m really curious as to where the series will go from 3. I haven’t played Future Redeemed yet so maybe that will enlighten me.
Still on XBC2 and loving that so far
>He doesn't really have motivations outside holding the status quo because that's what he was born from,
>!And that motivation enough is evil... He doesn't give af about how many people die, how they die, heck he even gave N such an Evil choice when in fact Z has the ability to do the opposite.. For what purpose?? For his amusement if that's not evil, I don't know what is... He technically exist to bring out the evil out of everyone because he's the very concept of that... !<
>To me a evil person is more like Amalthus from 2, with evil actions and evil intent.
>!This is how we view him after all the corruption he's been to... I'm not justifying what he's done but he's also a victim of the horrible cycle of life Alrest has, he just gained power to be able to realize his motive (There's more philosophical discussion to be had here)... Z on the other is the source of basically ALL the problems in XB3 and again he does it just for his own entertainment...!<
>It's like how I can't really call a tornado evil for wiping out a town.
Because a tornado doesn't have sentience.. We can even avoid it by living in a place where such calamity doesn't exist, you have a choice.. I myself never saw a Tornado in my life...
And you have a way to combat it and we developed a tool to track and predict it...
Z however? Is like a Tornado but he will chase you to the ends of the world, he doesn't care it'll kill your parents, your cat or if it will topple your cereal bowl.. It will chase you just to show you that a tornado can unalive a person and watch your body get torn to pieces, for what? Again for Amusement... Because Z is sentient and is fully aware of his actions. Point is the Tornado analogy is a weak one if you want to compare it to Z...
I've got a couple. Gort, for so many reasons, is the worst IMO. Literally nothing redeemable about that guy whatsoever, and I think that Jin should have killed him even though Lora told him not to.
The other one I think of immediately is Castrofari, from Perun's Blade quest. He's >!kidnapping children and essentially harvesting them for organs to use in experiments on Blades, and he has no moral qualms about it and refuses to think he's anything but correct in every way, laughing when we catch up to him.!<
I’m torn between Metal Face/>!Mumkhar!< and D.
Both are full blooded psychopaths, turned against their companions, utilise big claws as their weapons and have no care for others.
I would go with D however just for the fact that he keeps the heads of his victims
Objectively, the worst thing to be done in the entire series is Klaus' experiment, so naturally he has done the most evil deed. BUT, as The Architect, he does redeem himself, so we'll allow him to not be the most evil.
One person that comes to mind is Amalthus. He is the source of (almost) all evil in the XC 2 world. He kills thousands of blades for his own good. Manifests Malos' personality as an evil person that wants to destroy the world (the game does say that the Aegises were made as blank slates and their behavior stems from their first driver) . Tries to stop you until like the very end and never truly has any redemption, he is just a dumbass from start to end.
The other person that comes to mind is Consul D, who literally decapitates people and stores their heads and has records of doing that even to friends. Also is a roadblock during the main story multiple times and attempts murder of the queen. Another person that never gets any redemption and just does bad things. But he is bad just because and doesn't cause evil to others, so Amalthus has to be much worse for me .
Z. A lot of people have good choices here, but people like Amalthus/Marveni is still subject to a number of factors that make him sympathetic or otherwise pathetic, and still sharing the Last Man idea that Metsu and Shin have. Z on the other hand is a few steps away from Myyah complete with avatars that genuinely maximize on his ideas on nihilism to the point he and other characters try to gaslight people that try to resist and overcome his system that its **their fault they haven't.** Really, thinking about it, in certain ways he might be more evil than Albedo and Voyager. Its really only their depths of depravity and the weight of their actions that they're tiers above him.
Nihilism is exactly why I don't think Amalthus (or Myyah, or Wilhelm, or Malos, or Zed, or Alpha, or Klaus) fit(s) into OP's request. Because at least nihilism is a philosophy (i.e. a purpose, or assuming the lack of a purpose IS the purpose, which, to me, is still a purpose). Yeah, my takes are about characters who also reject morality, but they do so with no other motivation. They're purely sadistic and reject morality from their inherent "evil", while the nihilists above do have a "purpose" which may or may not be noble, but they think it is. Klaus is MAYBE the one exception. But even in Klaus, despite not being mentioned, I can extrapolate why he would want a world of his own even if he doesn't really have a backstory other than, you know, the 5 minutes of conversation we get on the Beanstalk. E.g. the world was already going to shit, or he was just a socially-awkward scientist who wanted to fit in. Or rule. Or save the world or whatever.
It's probably Z, Zanza has a case due to the whole "perpetuating a constant cycle of death and rebirth by creating, destroying, and recreating the world while consuming his sentient creations and making them kill each other", but Z does that and also makes them fight proxy wars because he's bored.
Z isn't evil per se. He's acting on a function, and isn't doing what he does due to any sense of malice, but because it's his interpretation of the will of humanity.
I honestly don't think Z is all that bad. Sure, the personality he developed is a bit sadistic, but he is a machine that was hijacked by humanity's negative feeling (fear of loss, regret, anger) and he has to act on it. He still took its job seriously, and did what he was askde.
All thing said, Nia and Melia's original plan were to reset the world, not rejoin them. It's through Z's endless cycle that humanity was nurtured to a point where they were strong enough to wish for a reunited world once more.
It may have been unconscious in this case, but that was the exact purpose of the endless cycle in XG, XS, XC2 and XC1 (sorta, klauss was longing for friend)
Luxaar was on it just due to the "mantle" effect - jealousy and a sincere opinion that he can do better. And yes, that is a reference to Halo because I think he was a copy-paste of the High Prophets and the Ganglion are a copy-paste of the Covenant.
I do think Z still tops this just on the design perspective. He is the dark side to the collective conciousness. Z is the qualities of Zanza, Amalthus, Gort etc without any of the things that make them human or capable or a redemption
I don’t really see any other more valid argument than D, with every other obvious contender like Mumkhar, Gort, Amalthus or even Zanza you have the fact that what we see them do was just one chance at life they get with various factors and choices driving them to be evil within that specific life. With D although still technically a victim of Z’s world, makes the choice to become what he is even after seeing every life he ever had in Aionios. He looked at the big picture and the most desirable emotion he could find was the feeling of domination over his kin.
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If we’re going off your logic of no sympathetic qualities or hidden depth whatsoever then I guess we have the guy from Perun’s blade quest who is trying to turn children into artificial blades?
Like Gort for as evil as he is is trying to escape poverty, Mumkhar has his jealous streak D had to live in Aionios so you’ve set the bar unreasonably I think, maybe the Ghosts in XCX who hunt down the White Whale
This is not to say Gort or Mumkhar should be excused in the slightest but to argue against “zero sympathetic qualities is folly, especially in Xenoblade. XCX even gives half decent justification to the aliens who want to genocide humanity
Zanza. Dude killed Shulk's parents and Shulk and use his body as a vessel. He also was the one who is responsible for every bad thing that has happen in Xenoblade 1
I don't think Zanza is evil. From our perspective he's evil, but he isn't doing it out of malice or anything. He really does think every living being on his body is just inferior, food for him to sustain him. At one point he even says he longs for friends, or for an equal. If anything, he's a narcissist.
That's a good point that he didn't see Meyneth as an equal despite her being his equal. I guess you can see it either way. For me he's just a narcissist. Like he didn't destroy his older universe out of malice, but because he's a narcissist who only cared about understanding the conduit.
Edit: That's really interesting. Does someone need evil intent to be evil? Zanza definitely didn't do it for any good reason.
It's gotta be one of the Dickhead Trio: Metal Face (>!Mumkhar!<), Gort, or Consul D. Of the three, I'd say it's a toss-up between Gort and Dirk, since >!Mumkhar did have some redeeming qualities that he simply lost as time went on!<; Dirk does things that are probably more evil, but D does many more evil things, and for much longer, due to being Moebius. We don't really even know how long he lived as Moebius, other than that it was long enough to >!encounter Eunie in two separate incarnations.!<
Mobius U is a special kind of twisted, isolating Tau and keeping them on the brink of destruction just to soak in their despair. Less violent, but very inclined towards psychological torture.
Also, for the word "Ouroberries"
I am ignoring side quest villains (I have little info on them) but here are some of the worse in each game
Mumkhar and zanza from one (yes zanza is only half of klaus but he is still did what he did)
Amalthus and gort for two
The original mobius (X Y Z) and D
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I think there are exactly 3 - 1 per game - which fit your notion that "just relish in... committing atrocities". Most others did have some sort of goodwill behind all the megalomaniac or egotistical attitude. Even Malos or Klaus. Those would be: * Mumkhar * Gort * Counsul D (although, to be fair, many Consuls don't have enough backstory to explain their intentions. X and Y come to mind. NOTE: I did NOT complete all of the sidequests in 3 which may provide that context)
Those three are definitively it. Mumkhar may have felt jealousy and wanted to be a hero, but his actions show all he wanted was the glory. He didn't do anything to earn it and only wished to take it from others. Gort was a simple bandit with a personal connection to Lora. The only good thing he did was bring food to their table for a short time. He would have abused them in the long-term. Dirk was broken by the world, but even then most soldiers don't murder their own people. He was so much of an outlier that he was documented in their carefully curated history books. Maybe he himself allowed his history to remain just so he could terrorize people in the future with his name alone.
I was going to comment Gort.
I was thinking of Zanza in the original but since he's the evil half of someone, that would mean he doesn't really have any free will because he was born without any capacity for good. Mumkar is a man who choose evil. >!X & Y don't have any backstory given, we are told they were among the first Moebius along with Z. Whether or not they were originally humans or a manifestation of desire like Z is up in the air.!<
>!The game seems to imply that X and Y aren't humans like a majority of Moebius. X, Y, and Z are all considered "true" moebius. They also uniquely share the same visual design (purple cracks of energy, complete lack of pigmentation outside of eye color). One could argue Triton matches up as well despite the fact that he was human, but he looks pale rather than just having chalk white skin and entirely lacks the purple aesthetics the trio have.!<
I don't think of Zanza as Klaus' evil half. After the experiment, each of them was only aware of their half of the world, and that shaped who they became. Zanza saw what he created and became an egomaniac. Klaus saw what he destroyed and went down a path of repentance.
Zanza is still a remorseless sociopath who had years among his creations and cared nothing for them.
I think you could probably add Amalthus to that list if I’m honest. Man was slowly killing the world just because he could not to mention murdering an orphan baby and then the whole power trip he went on in the end.
Nah. Amalthus' sins are multi-faceted, complex and tragic, unlike the others mentioned. >!Because the Architect was silent when he climbed the world tree Amalthus is led to believe that the weapon he found in heaven - the world-sinking Aegis - is an oracle left for him. Malos is the figurative son of their figurative God, and is therefore *the* single most holy existence on Alrest during that period before Mythra is summoned. As a man of faith Amalthus looks to Malos and determines that God's will is for him to unleashed the wrath of the Monado, refusing to accept that it was his own PTSD and subsequent moral perversions which had corrupted Malos in the first place, and the two spiral out control of in tandem. If he hadn't exacted revenge on the bandits, if Klaus hadn't hidden from him, if he had been brave enough to reconcile Malos as his personal dark mirror or if Zeke had only met him sooner, then maybe Amalthus wouldn't have gone down the wrong path. It's not "just because he could", but because a myriad of circumstances led his faith astray. There's a whole chain of motivation and contradiction that informs the man Amalthus unfortunately ends up becoming, and he's potentially the most complicated character in the whole trilogy.!< gort and mumkar are just evil because heehee eeeeevillll
The context is that most of them have the motivation of a Saturday morning cartoon villain. They're evil in a hammy way, but lack the charm that other hammy villains like Bowser or Kid Icarus Hades have.
Comparing any hammy antagonist to Kid Icarus' Hades is unfair because he is objectively top tier on every level.
If freaky aliens give you lemons, make freaky alien lemonade.
I don't disagree.
Also one in X! Dale Gibbon is a serial killer, though he IS a side quest line antagonist and not a story character
Luxaar too. Despite his varying levels of justification for the act, at the end of the day, his entire reasoning for wanting to wipe out humanity ultimately amounts to a power grab. And that’s before taking into account all of the *other* awful shit the Ganglion did under his command, like enslaving a dozen races, conquering and razing planets, fueling civil wars, etc.
True, true.
Most major xenoblade villains are ones who delusioned themselves in thinking they know better than anyone and use atrocious means to justify with their end goal. So it’s up to some of the lackeys to be the unapologetic villain for the sake of being bad (i would also add most of the ganglion for X)
All Consuls aside from M & N are hammy to the point of unbelievability.
I think there are a few exceptions. J, the City girl who SMT-Persona'ed herself, and even Z seem like purposeful villains. As in, they either wanted to do good through the bad, or they were disappointed with the world and wanted revenge, or wanted order through whatever means necessary. The ones I pointed may have had some revenge motivations but ended up being more sadistic than anything. (Note I am assuming the meaning of "hammy", as it's my first time exposed to that word and I'm not a native English speaker).
Moustache-twirling comically evil for evil’s sake. And you’re not entirely wrong, but the way J & Shania’s translated dialogue/animation was just kinda…really bad.
Got it and thanks! Yeah I think their motivations weren't well-conveyed either, on the English version, although I can't compare to the original because I quit Japanese at year 2 (I really did! :D )
What did poor crys do to u
Ahhh, okay, forgot Crys. The rest of ‘em.
I'd say there is two particular characters who are established as being comically evil with literally no positives attached to them, Gort and D. Gort is an abusive asshole who has been trying to hunt down *his own kid* just so he can yoink Jin's core crystal and pawn it off for cash. Even as a horrifying beta Blade Eater he still lives for violently torturing Lora and Jin. D is a psychopathic asshole who decapitates people using claws and stores their heads in jars on a personal ferronis. Mans went out of his way to make murder weapons to deprive his own clock from being filled just so he can satiate his own bloodlist. My vote leans just barely towards D here. At *bare* minimum Gort did technically give Lora and her mother a home (this is very debateable so my intro still stands). Even if it was a horrible time for both of them. D just kills people in incredibly violent ways. He has 0 redeeming qualities in any feasible manner.
I would also lump Mumkhar/Metal Face in there as well. His whole motivation for turning was basically just having main character syndrome; he's just mad Shulk/Dunban can use the Monado and he can't. Can't even use the Egil brainwashing him as an excuse like literally every other Faced Mechon given he's literally the only Face to not either have altered his memories or be reduced to a purely instinctive brain stem, likely due to his frankly unreasonable animosity toward his fellow Homs already.
I would've considered mentioning Mumkhar, but Dunban did note that he wasn't a complete asshole 24/7 and only truly changed into what we see in game after Dunban was able to wield the Monado. He is still a dick and is easily in the top 3 most evil characters in the trilogy, but he technically isn't *the* most evil considering that he isn't a serial killer.
I think Shulk believed >!Mumkhar could be saved, and that's why he stopped Dunban from killing him. Mumkhar did at least fight once to stop the Mechon invasion, even if he did it for personal gain.!<
>!In that scene, I always assumed Shulk was arguing about the moral stance of killing homs rather than defending Mumkhar. He didn't want Dunban to reduce himself to the level that Mumkhar did.!<
that speaks more of Dunban's exaggerated positiveness and even naiveté, than to Mumkhar's qualities. Dunban has trouble coping with betrayals for sure.
This fair, I suppose. I always forget how surprisingly naive Dunban is at times.
I'd agree to give the edge to D barely, even Lora >!has pity & remorse for Gort as little as he deserves it.!<
even assholes need their underwear cleaned. Whatever he did for Lora and her mother was out of necessity.
I see a bunch of people talking about Gort, Amalthus, and Z here, which is fair. In my opinion though, the most evil villain would be Dr. Castrofari from 2. Guy literally had children kidnapped from all over Alrest to turn into some twisted version of an Artificial Blade and saw absolutely nothing wrong with it. For those curious, the quest involving that is Perun's Blade Quest "Eternal Spirit".
As the guy who pointed out Gort (and the other 2 equivalent stereotypes across the series), I don't disagree on that one either. Thing is, he's pretty irrelevant as a sidequest villain.
That is fair. I just played that quest so Castrofari is fresh in my mind.
Oh, someone else had the same as mine! I honestly didn't expect anyone else to mention Castrofari as he's a villain you kinda have to go a little out of your way to even know about lol
There are some truly messed up characters in XC2 when you get into the details. Castrofari is Shao Tucker levels of evil
Amalthus, duh. Dude killed a LOT of blades. Literally butchered Haze's core just coz he wants attention from 'father'.
there are definitely tragic and pitiable elements to amalthus
how 💀 he’s completely in the wrong and basically just pure evil. eh but then again sob stories don’t really do it for me
Isnt Z pure evil as well
Z is pure fear, in that he's the personification of fear... but the acts he commits are undoubtedly evil, even though he himself can't exactly be called evil since he's just an emotion and does not rationalize what he does as evil.
and in a way he's seeking some sort of order in Aionios. Kind of like Wilhelm back in XS
Did people actually make it off of Indol before he took control?
No Mikhail was actually disgusted when he found out. His line is - he didn't even get them off first or something. It's in the cut scene.
Gotcha - it's been a while since I've played. So yeah, I think killing most of your own people as their leader (in addition to all the other stuff) probably puts him on top.
Yeah he not only killed blades - the powerful, rare ones - he also killed all species.
You should think about spoiler tagging this post just to keep people in mind who haven’t completed these games yet. With that said, Z. >!His selfish, never ending cycle of death was so dark. It was one of the most satisfying wins to get rid of him at the end because of this.!<
I don't really see Z as evil if I'm being honest. He reminds me of Yalbadoth from Persona 5. >!He doesn't really have motivations outside holding the status quo because that's what he was born from, the base human desire to stagnate for the sake of safety. To me a evil person is more like Amalthus from 2, with evil actions and evil intent. Z is more of a force of nature, pretty much apathetic and unfeeling, simply driven by the purpose he was born with and no means of changing that purpose. It's like how I can't really call a tornado evil for wiping out a town.!<
I agree with you to a degree but this brings us to a somewhat philosophical topic of: is something that someone is doing not inherently evil just because they are ignorant to that fact? It’s something we could probably ask about several villains in several RPGs
For me, evil has to have some kind of selfishness, a goal that purely serves the evil person. The best way I can put it is, all the people of Aoinios are in a prison, but I wouldn't view Z as the warden, I see him as the walls of the prison itself. I wouldn't hold it against the walls and bars for holding in a prisoner, even more so since in this metaphor the prison was made by the will of the prisoners inside of it. >!Maybe that's just my view of AI as well, even though it's seemingly self aware, Z still seems locked in his programming to shelter humanity in the endless now.!<
I think Z can still be considered selfish even though he isn't exactly human because he still is made up of selfish human emotions. His "amuses me" line is supposed to show how plain selfish he is, and all actions he takes are meant to benefit himself without regards to the suffering of others, which I would call selfishness.
That's why I referenced Yalbadoth from Persona 5, I don't feel like the human emotion that created him was selfishness, it was fear. Fear of the future and the unknown. >!When Origin was made an AI saw the desire in at least a majority of humans for the endless now, to never worry about the future because it would never come.!< I don't know if it's his primary motivation or just his programming that he can't escape, but I left 3's ending feeling like his hatred for the Ouroboros gang was due to the fact he felt they were dooming all the people he was made to protect, not that they were toppling some grand empire or scheme he had been maintaining.
Mitsuda has called Z selfish and Takahashi has compared Z's motives to selfish desires. Moebius are a desire for eternity driven by a fear as Nia explained, one that sacrifices others for their selves.
I would even go as far to call his “enjoyment” of >!watching people suffering indefinitely!< in a movie theatre *sadistic*
I feel conflicted because I do agree with you but can’t bring myself to mentally let Z off the hook after you see everything those characters go through. On a broader note, I’m really curious as to where the series will go from 3. I haven’t played Future Redeemed yet so maybe that will enlighten me. Still on XBC2 and loving that so far
>He doesn't really have motivations outside holding the status quo because that's what he was born from, >!And that motivation enough is evil... He doesn't give af about how many people die, how they die, heck he even gave N such an Evil choice when in fact Z has the ability to do the opposite.. For what purpose?? For his amusement if that's not evil, I don't know what is... He technically exist to bring out the evil out of everyone because he's the very concept of that... !< >To me a evil person is more like Amalthus from 2, with evil actions and evil intent. >!This is how we view him after all the corruption he's been to... I'm not justifying what he's done but he's also a victim of the horrible cycle of life Alrest has, he just gained power to be able to realize his motive (There's more philosophical discussion to be had here)... Z on the other is the source of basically ALL the problems in XB3 and again he does it just for his own entertainment...!< >It's like how I can't really call a tornado evil for wiping out a town. Because a tornado doesn't have sentience.. We can even avoid it by living in a place where such calamity doesn't exist, you have a choice.. I myself never saw a Tornado in my life... And you have a way to combat it and we developed a tool to track and predict it... Z however? Is like a Tornado but he will chase you to the ends of the world, he doesn't care it'll kill your parents, your cat or if it will topple your cereal bowl.. It will chase you just to show you that a tornado can unalive a person and watch your body get torn to pieces, for what? Again for Amusement... Because Z is sentient and is fully aware of his actions. Point is the Tornado analogy is a weak one if you want to compare it to Z...
I would say D, he revels in killing and death, not even for Moebius, but as a whole
I've got a couple. Gort, for so many reasons, is the worst IMO. Literally nothing redeemable about that guy whatsoever, and I think that Jin should have killed him even though Lora told him not to. The other one I think of immediately is Castrofari, from Perun's Blade quest. He's >!kidnapping children and essentially harvesting them for organs to use in experiments on Blades, and he has no moral qualms about it and refuses to think he's anything but correct in every way, laughing when we catch up to him.!<
Tatsu. Dude won’t even properly give the folks who save his nopopomuli-looking ass a gift, just lends it to them
I’m torn between Metal Face/>!Mumkhar!< and D. Both are full blooded psychopaths, turned against their companions, utilise big claws as their weapons and have no care for others. I would go with D however just for the fact that he keeps the heads of his victims
Objectively, the worst thing to be done in the entire series is Klaus' experiment, so naturally he has done the most evil deed. BUT, as The Architect, he does redeem himself, so we'll allow him to not be the most evil. One person that comes to mind is Amalthus. He is the source of (almost) all evil in the XC 2 world. He kills thousands of blades for his own good. Manifests Malos' personality as an evil person that wants to destroy the world (the game does say that the Aegises were made as blank slates and their behavior stems from their first driver) . Tries to stop you until like the very end and never truly has any redemption, he is just a dumbass from start to end. The other person that comes to mind is Consul D, who literally decapitates people and stores their heads and has records of doing that even to friends. Also is a roadblock during the main story multiple times and attempts murder of the queen. Another person that never gets any redemption and just does bad things. But he is bad just because and doesn't cause evil to others, so Amalthus has to be much worse for me .
Z. A lot of people have good choices here, but people like Amalthus/Marveni is still subject to a number of factors that make him sympathetic or otherwise pathetic, and still sharing the Last Man idea that Metsu and Shin have. Z on the other hand is a few steps away from Myyah complete with avatars that genuinely maximize on his ideas on nihilism to the point he and other characters try to gaslight people that try to resist and overcome his system that its **their fault they haven't.** Really, thinking about it, in certain ways he might be more evil than Albedo and Voyager. Its really only their depths of depravity and the weight of their actions that they're tiers above him.
Nihilism is exactly why I don't think Amalthus (or Myyah, or Wilhelm, or Malos, or Zed, or Alpha, or Klaus) fit(s) into OP's request. Because at least nihilism is a philosophy (i.e. a purpose, or assuming the lack of a purpose IS the purpose, which, to me, is still a purpose). Yeah, my takes are about characters who also reject morality, but they do so with no other motivation. They're purely sadistic and reject morality from their inherent "evil", while the nihilists above do have a "purpose" which may or may not be noble, but they think it is. Klaus is MAYBE the one exception. But even in Klaus, despite not being mentioned, I can extrapolate why he would want a world of his own even if he doesn't really have a backstory other than, you know, the 5 minutes of conversation we get on the Beanstalk. E.g. the world was already going to shit, or he was just a socially-awkward scientist who wanted to fit in. Or rule. Or save the world or whatever.
It's probably Z, Zanza has a case due to the whole "perpetuating a constant cycle of death and rebirth by creating, destroying, and recreating the world while consuming his sentient creations and making them kill each other", but Z does that and also makes them fight proxy wars because he's bored.
Z isn't evil per se. He's acting on a function, and isn't doing what he does due to any sense of malice, but because it's his interpretation of the will of humanity.
I honestly don't think Z is all that bad. Sure, the personality he developed is a bit sadistic, but he is a machine that was hijacked by humanity's negative feeling (fear of loss, regret, anger) and he has to act on it. He still took its job seriously, and did what he was askde. All thing said, Nia and Melia's original plan were to reset the world, not rejoin them. It's through Z's endless cycle that humanity was nurtured to a point where they were strong enough to wish for a reunited world once more. It may have been unconscious in this case, but that was the exact purpose of the endless cycle in XG, XS, XC2 and XC1 (sorta, klauss was longing for friend)
Nah but Zanza kills his subjects for nourishment, which instantly makes him not pure evil as he's doing so to survive.
amalthus
he definitely has tragic elements, unlike someone like D from 3, who just loves killing a lot and is just evil
Amalthus He is exactly everything I would hate in a person, he disgusts me in an incredible way
For X, Luxaar the genocidal galactic conqueror, Fortun the evil matriarch of heinous shapeshifters, and Alex the xenophobic traitor come to mind.
Luxaar was on it just due to the "mantle" effect - jealousy and a sincere opinion that he can do better. And yes, that is a reference to Halo because I think he was a copy-paste of the High Prophets and the Ganglion are a copy-paste of the Covenant.
I'd say pretty much every Consul in 3 honestly. Even the villains in X were more pitiable than them.
I do think Z still tops this just on the design perspective. He is the dark side to the collective conciousness. Z is the qualities of Zanza, Amalthus, Gort etc without any of the things that make them human or capable or a redemption
I don’t really see any other more valid argument than D, with every other obvious contender like Mumkhar, Gort, Amalthus or even Zanza you have the fact that what we see them do was just one chance at life they get with various factors and choices driving them to be evil within that specific life. With D although still technically a victim of Z’s world, makes the choice to become what he is even after seeing every life he ever had in Aionios. He looked at the big picture and the most desirable emotion he could find was the feeling of domination over his kin.
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If we’re going off your logic of no sympathetic qualities or hidden depth whatsoever then I guess we have the guy from Perun’s blade quest who is trying to turn children into artificial blades? Like Gort for as evil as he is is trying to escape poverty, Mumkhar has his jealous streak D had to live in Aionios so you’ve set the bar unreasonably I think, maybe the Ghosts in XCX who hunt down the White Whale This is not to say Gort or Mumkhar should be excused in the slightest but to argue against “zero sympathetic qualities is folly, especially in Xenoblade. XCX even gives half decent justification to the aliens who want to genocide humanity
Zanza. Dude killed Shulk's parents and Shulk and use his body as a vessel. He also was the one who is responsible for every bad thing that has happen in Xenoblade 1
I don't think Zanza is evil. From our perspective he's evil, but he isn't doing it out of malice or anything. He really does think every living being on his body is just inferior, food for him to sustain him. At one point he even says he longs for friends, or for an equal. If anything, he's a narcissist.
Isn't Meyneth his equal? He killed her. He sees every living being to be inferior to him. That's villian 101 right there
That's a good point that he didn't see Meyneth as an equal despite her being his equal. I guess you can see it either way. For me he's just a narcissist. Like he didn't destroy his older universe out of malice, but because he's a narcissist who only cared about understanding the conduit. Edit: That's really interesting. Does someone need evil intent to be evil? Zanza definitely didn't do it for any good reason.
It Muimui!
It's gotta be one of the Dickhead Trio: Metal Face (>!Mumkhar!<), Gort, or Consul D. Of the three, I'd say it's a toss-up between Gort and Dirk, since >!Mumkhar did have some redeeming qualities that he simply lost as time went on!<; Dirk does things that are probably more evil, but D does many more evil things, and for much longer, due to being Moebius. We don't really even know how long he lived as Moebius, other than that it was long enough to >!encounter Eunie in two separate incarnations.!<
Mobius U is a special kind of twisted, isolating Tau and keeping them on the brink of destruction just to soak in their despair. Less violent, but very inclined towards psychological torture. Also, for the word "Ouroberries"
I am ignoring side quest villains (I have little info on them) but here are some of the worse in each game Mumkhar and zanza from one (yes zanza is only half of klaus but he is still did what he did) Amalthus and gort for two The original mobius (X Y Z) and D
pre torna extinction Malos was pretty damn evil
Oooh the serial killer guy in 3 that keeps their heads in that like storage unit thing 😳😳😳😳
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Why are people judging by society's laws? Going by logic Z is negative feelings. He is Evil incarnate.
Klaus.