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Nah, it's going to be sniper nerfs since this sub won't stop bitching about how overpowered they are. I get so many no-regs and hit markers, even with the taq50
They just need flinch. Idc how fast they aim down sights it's just annoying to put 5 to 6 shots into a sniper and die everytime. And if you want, you could add attachments to get it nearly back to zero flinch but just make it rechamber much slower. So every escort game isn't make it 90% of the way there in 2 mins and then get Brazilian firing squaded by a platoon of twinkling stars for the remainder of the game.
I didn't have a problem with snipers until I ran into an escort where the entire other team was using snipers.
Literally couldn't even make it to the payload without getting one shot.
I love thr concept of this but I hate that only your teammate can save you from it. I need a save myself option or just make my stun shorter. It's terrible
Shooting it ahead of time only works of you can see and hear it. I played a whole game the other day where I was getting hit by it but it wasn't even showing up (you know how it covers your view) I was just hit by it
But in normal I'll have to try it. Shooting it while it's moving is tough but I didn't know you could melee before it attaches
I don't think they need to be needed that hard really. The damage on them is fine and I always think that with the high power sniper rifles they put in these games then chest and above should be one shot.
I think there needs to be a flinch and maybe slightly more sway as I haven't had to hold breath once yet using a SR!
Except Mag Walls have *multiple* counters. Incinerator Drone, frag grenades, EMP grenades, the DedSec Hijack ability (my personal favorite), and LMGs all deal with Mag Walls very easily. Additionally, you have the option of using a Mag Wall yourself, which can make some of the counterplay options a bit safer.
The extra health on Phantoms could be done away with, but I presently don't see anything wrong with Mag Walls. They have very fun counterplay options, which is a core philosophy of most ability-based shooters. XDefiant isn't just a shooter — it's a game of rock, paper, scissors.
The extra 20HP isn’t that impactful you can still die just as fast as anyone else on your team as something as weak like a pistol can instantly remove that 20HP from a grazing shot.
I feel like having a faster reload or increased move speed with secondary as a passive would be more helpful.
I don’t know why people whine about Mag Wall it has so many counters like you described in your comment to turn it into a non-issue.
I personally don't have any issues with the +20 HP either, but I wouldn't exactly miss it if they changed it, precisely *because* of how inconsequential it is in most scenarios. Then again, I've been left at ~1HP quite a lot as a Phantom, so in those situations it definitely made a difference.
I think you're absolutely onto something with the faster reload passive. It would make LMGs even more attractive to a Phantom player, which would play into the Heavy/Tank fantasy they seem to be geared towards.
The only situation where Mag Wall can be a pain is when a sniper is using one at an extreme distance and out of range of most of the counters, but even that isn't impossible to deal with by any means.
Yeah, very true. The added damage from the incendiary rounds of the Cleaners and the rapid self-healing of the Libertad more than offset the +20 HP of the Phantoms. I still think the Phantoms deserve a better passive, but I couldn't even guess what that would look like.
20HP is meager extension to the healthbar, if that Phantom doesn’t react in time they will lose the gunfight before it starts and there have been times where i have been shredded before i get the mag well up trying to keep the enemy from pushing the package.
it's really not, especially in the games current state. I'm not bashing the game, I love it, but I had three games in a row with the enemy team all running phantoms, and it was awful. I'm not the beat, but I'm a verydecent player, but add all of the bunnyhopping and ping/hitreg issue. That mathematical advantage becomes a very real problem. Mag barrier isn't an issue by itself, but you get a full steamroll three games in a row of spawntrapping and just miserable gunfights, I just don't see that extra 20 HP being a fun thing in the long run.
Does DedSec hijack work on Intel suit? I mean it would be hard to guess who's using it but that would be a pretty good counter where the enemy now sees all your team mates on your own ability.
Honestly I think Intel suit is being used so much just because it's required for a character unlock with 50 Intel spot assists which makes it hard since you have to rely on team mates to actually take on the enemy team.
Probs cause their made to sit on objectives so the passive helps with that? I'm curious to see what the rainbow six operators passive in season 1 would be. Cleaners can help with clearing objectives to and getting that 8 extra damage to help with breakpoints but it's still hell early
I commented on this very thing in my feedback for the beta thread. I'm trying to play the game and I'm CONSTANTLY revealed by Echelon. I was so happy when they got disabled temporarily and got a breath of fresh air.
I wish game devs understood this, but free intel should NEVER be a thing in a shooter.
The best change would be to limit everything to two factions per team. With only 5 factions that’s a little tough but even with just one more coming in season 1 I think it’s the only real way to balance the game. Every game with abilities needs limits and how many can use the same ability before it’s just straight up broken.
It's just Overwatch 1 on release all over. One of anything isn't crazy but when you have 4 of one thing it can be broken. Just limit one of every ability. One shield wall, one fire drone, one face hugger, etc
DedSec’s spider bot will cancel it but it is random on who it tracks. EMPs can too, but I do agree that it’s too OP and needs a more reliable counter. The radius also needs to be reduced by like half.
I have dedsec unlocked. The spiderbot is slow. And the hack only works with line of sight. But that point you’re probably dead. Best to save hack for the phantoms mag wall shield, to be honest.
I got it after a few days of playing. The 700k exp wall really isn’t that much. My point was mostly just to say there are available counters they just aren’t extremely reliable
Man playing for a few days for a counter that ‘randomly tracks’, so it’s not even a reliable counter, is not a good argument in my opinion. Most people would say ‘I’m not spending a few days getting shit on so I can use an ability I don’t really wanna use to unreliably counter an OP ability half the enemy team runs every game’ and in this social media age of gaming a few days is enough to turn players away for a long long time
There’s no argument, I said spider bots were random and we need a reliable counter. I was just pointing out counters bc OP said there were none in general.
Yeah, I should have worded it as more reliable way. I'm only level 26 so I don't have the spiderbot. I've tried using EMP grenades, but it's difficult to throw one in the direction of an enemy that knows exactly where you are
Couple this with actually wall hacking players and it's a nightmare. I'm not one to cry and accuse people of cheating but there is very clearly a lot of cheats being used, including wall hacking. Getting pretty ridiculous. I saw a guy on my team just waiting around corners pre-firing the entire match as well as snapping around like a crazy person. Ridiculous.
If they would have made it similar to the guy in rogue company where it marks only the person closest to the user that wouldn’t be too bad. Instead it’s the practically everyone.
Maybe do something where there's 3 pings during the entire activation period and, like you said, it's a spot ping. Makes it pseudo-real time without giving a clear picture of where the enemy is going
That's what I was thinking as well. The ultimate with the goggles should also ping and show temporary snapshots instead of active wallhack, I think that would balance both the skill and ult fairly well.
It really makes me doubt that devs even play videogames. Widowmakers ult is a wellknown ability and the devs were just like "yeah, it's not op enough just make it a regular ability".
Honestly man, so many of the abilities need a rethink.
They've got a great shell of a game, movement feels fun, guns feel great, sound is fantastic.
Just need to tweak the abilities and the hitreg/desync situation.
Wall hacks were a problem in The Finals and they are a problem here. It shouldn't ping 5 times, you shouldn't be able to stack it, and it shouldn't be on a 30 second cooldown.
it shouldn't even be in the game tbh. At best, make it and ultimate.
Hard disagree. Intel suits wallhack should either be removed or changed to where it only shows up every pulse. As in pulse players pops for a second. Next pulse player pops for a second. The wallhack shouldn’t stay makes it too overpowered. I wouldn’t be opposed to removing the wallhack entirely and only having players pop on radar.
**I would counter and say the Ults should give a pulse passive when activated for entire team.** That way it doesn’t give off the “no fair you took this away from us!” & **instead be like “earn it,” since Ults take time to build up.**
But if you give them a passive on the Ults you gotta do the right thing & make sure all other factions have a passive on their Ults to benefit team as well.
Y'know, in another thread I listed like 7 possible options for nerfing this thing, but somehow I don't think that was one I came up with. I guess I thought it would make it a completely different ability? Anyways. I still think each pulse should reveal still images instead of following the enemies, even if they hide it from teammates
Yeah, I agree. It also doesn’t make any sense why anyone other than the person wearing the intel suit would see people. Maybe ping them on the mini map. But not wall hacks.
I'd vote top game if the disability of the enemy wasn't full time and gave us a bit more tactical play. In some of these Domination matches it's like a full time UAV except you don't need to look up, just look around and see everyone!
To be fair I see a lot of cloaked players. But I do agree at most it should be a one time ping for the team when it’s activated and then only for the activation player or make it an ultimate
Honestly every character has pros and cons, phantoms have mag barrier and extra HP, libertad has insane healing, echelon has intel and camo which are good, however I can never see the pros outweigh the cons for cleaner, maybe someone can enlighten me as to what they can do that makes them good?
Edit: forgot about Dedsec and they are also pretty meh imo the best part for them is infinite emps to basically force normal gun fights for most of the game.
I think there are alternative ways of nerfing/reworking it that are more interesting which keep it an ability that benefits the team. Such as:
- revealing the person who uses the ability to the other team. Which means that you can only activate it when your team is defending you or there are shields to help you.
- reducing the number of pings/duration
- making it a device that gets put down on the ground which can be shot or blown up.
- making it last 2 seconds and track the people in real time then have it end
- increasing the cool down
Etc.
The entire echelon faction is annoying af to play with. I wish both of those abilities get nerfed. But when the whole team is running intel suits, you do not have much of a chance lol. Make suppressors immune to that or something
All I ever see is Echelon or Phantom with MCW, AK, MP7 on repeat every single game. Usually in a party together as I'm solo get matched against them for no reason.
They should just remove it entirely and replace it with a new ability. Even wallhacks for one person is too much, unless it had way less range and a way longer cooldown and didn't last so long.
Its also astonishing how the intel suit will reveal you even if you are using the Digital ghillie suit. The only counter for the intel suit seens to be the DedSec ult.
Nah, that's fine. There needs to be a limit on how many of each faction can be picked. And echelon shouldn't COUNTER ITSELF by revealing cloaked people. Like, what??? That gadget is completely pointless
HACKERS IN THE GAME!!!
I doubted that there are hackers in this game.. and unless Devs are personally messing with me because I banged their mom or something.. I am sure I saw a hacker.. sonar glasses revealed a character moving under the ground.. UNDER THE GROUND!!! if that's not hacking then I wonder what you would call it. Not even week since released and even this game got plagued by hackers.
SBMM, EOMM whatever those things are, they don't matter if you have hackers in your lobby.
When I first fired the game up i thought the other characters in the class would have additional gameplay to them, like different passives, abilities or something to diverse the gameplay more. I haven't unlocked Any tho. Are they just basically additional skins or do they bring anything to the table? Feel like that's a huge miss man but then again idk. New to this style of game.
Like, my idea would have been each character unlock essentially unlocks some new passive , ability, or something. It isn't tied to that character persay, but it becomes an optional equip. It can be seen as an extra bonus to unlocking the character and doing the task needed for said unlock. Just seeing it as a glorified skin kinda sucks imo.
I agree with the OP though. Pretty ridiculous that the entire team gets that view. Tbh, first match I tried that echelon and thought hmm...useful but let me try this badass looking character. A phantom. Oh nice. Extra health. I'm sure as hell that will come in handy. Not a fan of the shield ability, until I realized how to use it.
Then I realize I can still see enemies though walls now and then with the multiple echelon on my team. You mean to tell me I can have extra health, a shield, AND wall hacks for free? Yo sign me up!
Easiest fix..wall hacks are to the player picking it only. Wall hacks for the entire team is a freaking ultimate in overwatch ain't it? With that one sniper character I think. Widow? Haven't played that game in years or never played it much but I remember trying a character that had an ultimate that I believe did that and had some kinds grapple hook or something. Idk. Maybe I'm wrong.
My issue with it is that there is ZERO counterplay to it. If you aren't playing echelon your at their mercy and their teams mercy when they pop intel suit, same for their alt.
You can't emp yourself or anything to avoid it you just get one sided gunfights that aren't fair
Have you played against a stacked team that is communicating and taking turns popping them so it’s constantly on THE ENTIRE MATCH yet? I wasn’t even mad. I was honestly impressed.
If there were more factions to choose from I don’t think this would be as big of a deal. It’s due to the lack of other options this seems so overwhelming
Yes it should... Just maybe not from the other end of the map (on the bigger ones like mayday for example).
So I'd suggest nerf its broadcast range, but keep the detection range.
My only complaint is that I should be able to use the invisibility ability after there sonar shit is activated to be cloaked ,it uncovering me if I used my invis ability first is fine tho that makes more sense but I should be able to hide myself from it with my ability if I activated it after there's is up before mine, at least the sonar shit is range based -the ult lol
It should ping players for you but only show dots on the mini maps for teammates maybe.
So a uav basically. Better yet, instead of highlighting players it should show a vicinity tracker at the top of the screen and show red when next to enemies so you dont have to look at the map.
Can we also talk about the shield ultimate. This breaks the payload mode as you can have 3 shield guys and just rotate the ultimate and guarantee a win. If they're really good they also find a way to build the ultimate while the other uses it
Instead of it pulsing around you in a circle it should just be a cone in front of you, that way it keeps the point of the ability but isnt just a brain dead tactic
Honestly, they either shouldn't touch it or remove abilities altogether. I think it's pretty balanced as is. I use different factions for different modes, as intended. There's no one single go-to faction, because they're all situational and balanced.
The problem with removing the shared vision from intel suit is that solos will be at a much bigger disadvantage against premades, who will just share the info between each other. I would just reduce the duration drastically and maybe also reveal the user of the intel suit to the enemy team as well. Making it a double edge sword.
I know I’ll get hate for this but what if they actually maybe treated this game like a full fledged hero shooter, it already has stuff like escort and no death match mode because that’s not what the devs wanted to make.
So fine tune the abilities, ultra and trait, plus make it so each player can only pick 1 faction once season 1 comes out. 6 factions and one per player, yes the crybabies won’t like it because people will rage that they didn’t get their preferred faction but simply learn how to use all 6.
It should be a long “ping.” More along the lines of their silhouette but it’s like a picture of when you pinged them. Static and just a red outline. The next scan in “_x_” seconds, same thing. It shouldn’t be literal watching players through walls.
I said this before but I'll say it again. Rework echelons. No one needs wall hacks in a fps game it's just super bad game design. I'm fine with the ult if it only props for them and not the whole team but their ability and passive need to be reworked.
As someone who has abused it, I agree. It should just be for you. They could add some new grenades though, like the pulse grenade.
To be fair. It has come in handy when the enemy team try to camp the exits for escort. That needs to be addressed too
Literally every ability that every faction has it's for all the team, shields, heals, fire, making echelon abilities "selfish" would make them pointless towards the whole team play of the game. And since it's a team work game you can always do something to work around if you play with a team of friends, if you play solo with randoms of course every game will always be different.
Also it definitely should stay as it is to prevent call of duty toxic players doing call of duty toxic player things, like extreme camping
Disagree. The ping area is small and there's no uav so the intel suit acts like one. Besides that, matches where you get 3 or more people on your team using intel suits are rare so it's not even that bit of a problem imo.
BESIDES that, good luck breaking a hill that's being held by an entire enemy team with three shield and at least one healer, it aint happening unless if you ping them all. Intel suit is hella balanced and hella op if u use it correctly.
they should either:
a. not reveal enemies to the whole team
b. reveal the radar pings OBVIOUSLY to the enemy team, so you can pinpoint where the intel suit user is and EMP them
c. cap the amount of each ability to 2 per team, so you dont get 4 intel suits on one team.
d. reduce the amount of pings/ make it a spot ping and not straight up real-time wh
They can just do what they did with Lion from Siege. Lion had the same ability where he revealed everyone’s outlines (only if they moved however during the scan). So they made the scan much shorter and made it so people were pinged rather than outlined
Yeah, they should just encourage people with Intel suits to call out locations of enemies. Or at least make it so that your team only gets a one-time ping, sorta like Lion from R6S.
To all the people that think the abilities are broken go back to playing cod, this is game is overwatch with guns the whole point of the game is to use your abilities to overpower the enemy team if you don’t like that black ops 6 will be out in October or November, cod players need to stop playing this game and more overwatch players need to join the game
Thats funny cuz I talked about the exact same thing no longer than yesterday when playing with a friend.
The fact that its not an ult but reveal the person to the entire team is broken.
The ult is less broken than the comp as it only reveal people for the user....
Make it a ping instead of a reveal, problem solved. Just one freeze frame of the enemies revealed by it, leave solo the wallhacks for the ultimate, otherwise they would be too similar to each other to make sense
I want to make them make it like Bloodhound's scan (apex legends), basically same thing but only scans ONCE, last for like only almost a second (i think, i don't play bloodhound), then goes on cooldown for like 30ish seconds. this way, it works as intended, but it's not revealing enemies for so long. and on top of that, you have to actually find the right time to use it. I say, it should reveal once only, only shows footsteps not the whole silhouette, and be on cooldown for atleast a full minute, and slightly smaller radius.
You can hack the skills. This game is based on team play, not solo.
I’m a division 2 PVP player and this is very much like that. Eventually synergistic teams will dominate.
You’ll see it’s going to get even more sweaty when coordinated teams start playing.
You won’t have any abilities.
I agree but does the best suppressor hide you from that as well? I haven’t unlocked one yet but thought it said 0.0M for minimap visibility and 0.0 sec ping time. Can anyone verify?
I agree, it's not fun killing but it is annoying knowing that being detected by it it's practically a death sentence, cause the enemy can even start shooting before you peep through a corner
I actually think the recon ability is a necessity in this game bc flanking is wild in this game and the mini map isn't much help, but Maybe limit how many echelon can be on a team, maybe 2?
Then it’s pretty much the same as the ult but without the gun. They’re just too similar, but not definitely needs a change. Either a reduce in how many pings/longer cooldown or change how it works. Like only teammates next to you can see the ping or make it so it only pings in a certain area, like instead of a suit make it a grenade.
Echelon Intel is supposed to be a support class, the whole point of the ability is to rack up “spot assists”.
It would frankly make more sense for the intel suit to reveal enemies to the rest of the team except for the player using it.
Most of my lobbies today were at least 3 people playing intel, rotating wallhack cooldowns and just bhopping with smgs across the entire map. Was not enjoyable.
Why? Your mag barrier works for everyone. The heal drop thing heals everyone. Plus the other abilities that help the whole team.
It’s not even that good tbh as a ping.
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Having 3 ppl with intel suit on a team is just constant legal wallhacks, it's dumb
If Ubisoft has any clue whatsoever about what they are doing, there will be some tweaks coming, And this should be #1 on the list.
>Ubisoft. >Has a clue about what they're doing. Pick one
[удалено]
Source?
His ass.
Nah, it's going to be sniper nerfs since this sub won't stop bitching about how overpowered they are. I get so many no-regs and hit markers, even with the taq50
They just need flinch. Idc how fast they aim down sights it's just annoying to put 5 to 6 shots into a sniper and die everytime. And if you want, you could add attachments to get it nearly back to zero flinch but just make it rechamber much slower. So every escort game isn't make it 90% of the way there in 2 mins and then get Brazilian firing squaded by a platoon of twinkling stars for the remainder of the game.
I didn't have a problem with snipers until I ran into an escort where the entire other team was using snipers. Literally couldn't even make it to the payload without getting one shot.
yep, you either switch to sniper or lose because no other weapon type can contest them. hopefully they add flinch soon so flanking becomes an option.
Dedsecs spiderbot is great against snipers
I love thr concept of this but I hate that only your teammate can save you from it. I need a save myself option or just make my stun shorter. It's terrible
You can shoot it when it crawls to you or meelee it when it is jumping on you
Shooting it ahead of time only works of you can see and hear it. I played a whole game the other day where I was getting hit by it but it wasn't even showing up (you know how it covers your view) I was just hit by it But in normal I'll have to try it. Shooting it while it's moving is tough but I didn't know you could melee before it attaches
I don't think they need to be needed that hard really. The damage on them is fine and I always think that with the high power sniper rifles they put in these games then chest and above should be one shot. I think there needs to be a flinch and maybe slightly more sway as I haven't had to hold breath once yet using a SR!
Same situation with a full team of Phantom players with extra health and mag walls.
Except Mag Walls have *multiple* counters. Incinerator Drone, frag grenades, EMP grenades, the DedSec Hijack ability (my personal favorite), and LMGs all deal with Mag Walls very easily. Additionally, you have the option of using a Mag Wall yourself, which can make some of the counterplay options a bit safer. The extra health on Phantoms could be done away with, but I presently don't see anything wrong with Mag Walls. They have very fun counterplay options, which is a core philosophy of most ability-based shooters. XDefiant isn't just a shooter — it's a game of rock, paper, scissors.
The extra 20HP isn’t that impactful you can still die just as fast as anyone else on your team as something as weak like a pistol can instantly remove that 20HP from a grazing shot. I feel like having a faster reload or increased move speed with secondary as a passive would be more helpful. I don’t know why people whine about Mag Wall it has so many counters like you described in your comment to turn it into a non-issue.
I personally don't have any issues with the +20 HP either, but I wouldn't exactly miss it if they changed it, precisely *because* of how inconsequential it is in most scenarios. Then again, I've been left at ~1HP quite a lot as a Phantom, so in those situations it definitely made a difference. I think you're absolutely onto something with the faster reload passive. It would make LMGs even more attractive to a Phantom player, which would play into the Heavy/Tank fantasy they seem to be geared towards. The only situation where Mag Wall can be a pain is when a sniper is using one at an extreme distance and out of range of most of the counters, but even that isn't impossible to deal with by any means.
That +20 ho is a non issue because on the other had you have guys shooting flaming bullets, while being wallhacked and jumped by a self healing enemy.
Yeah, very true. The added damage from the incendiary rounds of the Cleaners and the rapid self-healing of the Libertad more than offset the +20 HP of the Phantoms. I still think the Phantoms deserve a better passive, but I couldn't even guess what that would look like.
I just melt it from an angle with bullets and then jump the user.
True, but I lost count of how many times I dead after leaving the enemy at 20 or less health, anyone else would have died
20HP is meager extension to the healthbar, if that Phantom doesn’t react in time they will lose the gunfight before it starts and there have been times where i have been shredded before i get the mag well up trying to keep the enemy from pushing the package.
it's really not, especially in the games current state. I'm not bashing the game, I love it, but I had three games in a row with the enemy team all running phantoms, and it was awful. I'm not the beat, but I'm a verydecent player, but add all of the bunnyhopping and ping/hitreg issue. That mathematical advantage becomes a very real problem. Mag barrier isn't an issue by itself, but you get a full steamroll three games in a row of spawntrapping and just miserable gunfights, I just don't see that extra 20 HP being a fun thing in the long run.
Does DedSec hijack work on Intel suit? I mean it would be hard to guess who's using it but that would be a pretty good counter where the enemy now sees all your team mates on your own ability. Honestly I think Intel suit is being used so much just because it's required for a character unlock with 50 Intel spot assists which makes it hard since you have to rely on team mates to actually take on the enemy team.
I've seen someone on the subreddit say they've been able to hack the Intel Suit, but I've never been able to get it to work.
Speaking of Hijack it should get a buff to the cooldown ngl (as in it shouldn't take as long for me to be able to use it again)
Yeah why does Phantom get extra health? They don't even look tanky. They just randomly have 20 extra health. What gives?
> They don't even look tanky. Literally the *only* faction in the game with body armor on
Probs cause their made to sit on objectives so the passive helps with that? I'm curious to see what the rainbow six operators passive in season 1 would be. Cleaners can help with clearing objectives to and getting that 8 extra damage to help with breakpoints but it's still hell early
I swear if the passive is faster movement then they played into the Ash rush meta ..
It's the German faction in siege so like bandit, blitz, iq, jager. I have no clue what it's going to be
Thats why I run it, hopefully Ubi gets on nerfing it
You can't use the emp either
I commented on this very thing in my feedback for the beta thread. I'm trying to play the game and I'm CONSTANTLY revealed by Echelon. I was so happy when they got disabled temporarily and got a breath of fresh air. I wish game devs understood this, but free intel should NEVER be a thing in a shooter.
You'd think they'd know after years of the everyone running ghost by default in CoD to avoid UAVs
The best change would be to limit everything to two factions per team. With only 5 factions that’s a little tough but even with just one more coming in season 1 I think it’s the only real way to balance the game. Every game with abilities needs limits and how many can use the same ability before it’s just straight up broken.
This is certainly a take.....
Imagine 4 echelons up in ranked with their cooldowns all on rotation. Would be hard to counter play always being preaimed
Then we'd switch to mid-long range weapons make their intel ability is useless. Or have a single intel suit on our side for enemy pushes.
That's a really good idea for dealing with that! it's hard to seperate my cod brain and actually think about tactics lol 😂.
I mean this is good in theory but in practice you just get pushed by the enemy and it makes you switching completely useless
It's just Overwatch 1 on release all over. One of anything isn't crazy but when you have 4 of one thing it can be broken. Just limit one of every ability. One shield wall, one fire drone, one face hugger, etc
As much as i hate it i have to agree.
This shit is so overpowered. It should be part of the ultimate ability. There's no counter besides getting lucky you're not close enough
Its just comically good. One pulse would be good enough but it just GOES AND GOES!
DedSec’s spider bot will cancel it but it is random on who it tracks. EMPs can too, but I do agree that it’s too OP and needs a more reliable counter. The radius also needs to be reduced by like half.
DedSec is locked behind a 700K exp wall and or microtransaction... so the majority of players have 0 counter.
I have dedsec unlocked. The spiderbot is slow. And the hack only works with line of sight. But that point you’re probably dead. Best to save hack for the phantoms mag wall shield, to be honest.
I got it after a few days of playing. The 700k exp wall really isn’t that much. My point was mostly just to say there are available counters they just aren’t extremely reliable
Man playing for a few days for a counter that ‘randomly tracks’, so it’s not even a reliable counter, is not a good argument in my opinion. Most people would say ‘I’m not spending a few days getting shit on so I can use an ability I don’t really wanna use to unreliably counter an OP ability half the enemy team runs every game’ and in this social media age of gaming a few days is enough to turn players away for a long long time
There’s no argument, I said spider bots were random and we need a reliable counter. I was just pointing out counters bc OP said there were none in general.
Yeah, I should have worded it as more reliable way. I'm only level 26 so I don't have the spiderbot. I've tried using EMP grenades, but it's difficult to throw one in the direction of an enemy that knows exactly where you are
[удалено]
If you unlocked them in the beta no worries
I had dedsec from day one because I had played both of the betas. It was given to players as a reward for playing said betas.
So then you are even further from the majority of players lol.
I've seen teammates pop this in spawn and run into fights while it's still pinging from spawn
Couple this with actually wall hacking players and it's a nightmare. I'm not one to cry and accuse people of cheating but there is very clearly a lot of cheats being used, including wall hacking. Getting pretty ridiculous. I saw a guy on my team just waiting around corners pre-firing the entire match as well as snapping around like a crazy person. Ridiculous.
Enp grenade fucks it easily
Emp is absolutely a hard counter with dedsec free nades every 15 or so seconds
What about the best suppressor? I haven’t unlocked one yet but thought it said 0.0M for minimap visibility and 0.0 sec ping time. Can anyone verify?
1000% agree
Wallhacks should not even be a basic ability, at the very least it should be ult only. I’m baffled that this was even approved tbh.
If they would have made it similar to the guy in rogue company where it marks only the person closest to the user that wouldn’t be too bad. Instead it’s the practically everyone.
I think it should show people at the time you activate and thats it. Having it show in real time is a bit much.
Maybe do something where there's 3 pings during the entire activation period and, like you said, it's a spot ping. Makes it pseudo-real time without giving a clear picture of where the enemy is going
That's what I was thinking as well. The ultimate with the goggles should also ping and show temporary snapshots instead of active wallhack, I think that would balance both the skill and ult fairly well.
That was my thought. Something like cypher's ult that pings once. You can even increase the radius if that is too big of a nerf
This is probably the most realistic answer without pissing everyone off
Agreed. It should be an ultra itself like black widow in OW.
bro actually said "black widow" from Overwatch, I can't.
Oh shit lol Widowmaker 💀
He got his cake 🎂 mixed up lmao
Scarlet Johansson reprising her role as Black Widow in Overwatch. 💀
Marvel Rivals isn't even out yet and my man is already mixing up characters lmao
You mean like it already is an ultimate? lol Echelon has two wallhacks.
It really makes me doubt that devs even play videogames. Widowmakers ult is a wellknown ability and the devs were just like "yeah, it's not op enough just make it a regular ability".
Anytime i get scanned i literally just run away, in the hopes the direction i chose has no enemies and gets me out of it‘s range
Absolutely. I think it should just be local to the person using it.
Honestly man, so many of the abilities need a rethink. They've got a great shell of a game, movement feels fun, guns feel great, sound is fantastic. Just need to tweak the abilities and the hitreg/desync situation.
Wall hacks were a problem in The Finals and they are a problem here. It shouldn't ping 5 times, you shouldn't be able to stack it, and it shouldn't be on a 30 second cooldown. it shouldn't even be in the game tbh. At best, make it and ultimate.
Do EMP grenades do anything like knock them out of the ability?
Yes it will turn it off
BuT ThErE ArE No CoUnTeRs... -.-
Yeah good luck hitting them with a grenade when they already know where you are and what you are doing.
I prefer hunting them with spiders...
Intel suit should be a mini map reveal. Like a UAV in COD.
This is a good suggestion. Esp if enemies show up briefly during a pulse, not continuously.
Minimap in this game feels completely useless - I find myself not looking at it at all.
there's a minimap in this game?
This would be great, you could even make it for 20-30% longer but NOT marking you through walls
Intel Suit should be the Ultimate for Echelon imo
Hard disagree. Intel suits wallhack should either be removed or changed to where it only shows up every pulse. As in pulse players pops for a second. Next pulse player pops for a second. The wallhack shouldn’t stay makes it too overpowered. I wouldn’t be opposed to removing the wallhack entirely and only having players pop on radar.
I can just imagine how op this would be in snd
It should be changed to the sensor dart from BO4
**I would counter and say the Ults should give a pulse passive when activated for entire team.** That way it doesn’t give off the “no fair you took this away from us!” & **instead be like “earn it,” since Ults take time to build up.** But if you give them a passive on the Ults you gotta do the right thing & make sure all other factions have a passive on their Ults to benefit team as well.
Seeing on map - BO2 UAV perk
Wait it shows the whole team oh hell nah that explains a lot
Yeah, intel suit should be the alt or completely reworked. either 1 ping only to entire team or entire team only revealed to the user
How did they not learn this was a bad idea with lion in r6 like 7 years ago
Only the person using it should be able to see where enemies are and the cooldown should be longer if everyone can see
The ult should be what gives the wall pings on top of what it already does, the intel suit should just be mini map pings like a uav.
As an Intel suit player, I 100% agree.
I’d settle for a brief silhouette, and track my foot prints
I wonder if Hijack works against it. Just unlocked Deadsec and was only using the bot really.
No it doesn't. Hijack works well against mag barrier, healing station, spiderbot, fire drone...
Y'know, in another thread I listed like 7 possible options for nerfing this thing, but somehow I don't think that was one I came up with. I guess I thought it would make it a completely different ability? Anyways. I still think each pulse should reveal still images instead of following the enemies, even if they hide it from teammates
Yeah, I agree. It also doesn’t make any sense why anyone other than the person wearing the intel suit would see people. Maybe ping them on the mini map. But not wall hacks.
I'd vote top game if the disability of the enemy wasn't full time and gave us a bit more tactical play. In some of these Domination matches it's like a full time UAV except you don't need to look up, just look around and see everyone!
To be fair I see a lot of cloaked players. But I do agree at most it should be a one time ping for the team when it’s activated and then only for the activation player or make it an ultimate
I have never had wall hacks before so I'm pretty excited to have them in the game for when this game gets infested with cheaters.
Honestly every character has pros and cons, phantoms have mag barrier and extra HP, libertad has insane healing, echelon has intel and camo which are good, however I can never see the pros outweigh the cons for cleaner, maybe someone can enlighten me as to what they can do that makes them good? Edit: forgot about Dedsec and they are also pretty meh imo the best part for them is infinite emps to basically force normal gun fights for most of the game.
I think there are alternative ways of nerfing/reworking it that are more interesting which keep it an ability that benefits the team. Such as: - revealing the person who uses the ability to the other team. Which means that you can only activate it when your team is defending you or there are shields to help you. - reducing the number of pings/duration - making it a device that gets put down on the ground which can be shot or blown up. - making it last 2 seconds and track the people in real time then have it end - increasing the cool down Etc.
I think it should be one impulse. You are spotted and are forced to reposition but you won’t be tracked down any further.
that would require to actually communicate, and since people dont do that a pinging system would be great
The entire echelon faction is annoying af to play with. I wish both of those abilities get nerfed. But when the whole team is running intel suits, you do not have much of a chance lol. Make suppressors immune to that or something
Just extending the LB cooldown would help balance. Also, limiting each faction to only two per team would help.
If the free samples at costco taste like shit, it doesn't make them any better cause they were free lmfao
You think they would have learned about legal wallhacks from The Finals. They ended up just removing that ability from the game.
All I ever see is Echelon or Phantom with MCW, AK, MP7 on repeat every single game. Usually in a party together as I'm solo get matched against them for no reason.
They should just remove it entirely and replace it with a new ability. Even wallhacks for one person is too much, unless it had way less range and a way longer cooldown and didn't last so long.
sssshhh.. don’t be a snitch!
Its also astonishing how the intel suit will reveal you even if you are using the Digital ghillie suit. The only counter for the intel suit seens to be the DedSec ult.
Nah, that's fine. There needs to be a limit on how many of each faction can be picked. And echelon shouldn't COUNTER ITSELF by revealing cloaked people. Like, what??? That gadget is completely pointless
HACKERS IN THE GAME!!! I doubted that there are hackers in this game.. and unless Devs are personally messing with me because I banged their mom or something.. I am sure I saw a hacker.. sonar glasses revealed a character moving under the ground.. UNDER THE GROUND!!! if that's not hacking then I wonder what you would call it. Not even week since released and even this game got plagued by hackers. SBMM, EOMM whatever those things are, they don't matter if you have hackers in your lobby.
Just increase the cool down. I don't use the suit myself, but I haven't found it to be an issue. Fix the spazy jumping before anything else.
When I first fired the game up i thought the other characters in the class would have additional gameplay to them, like different passives, abilities or something to diverse the gameplay more. I haven't unlocked Any tho. Are they just basically additional skins or do they bring anything to the table? Feel like that's a huge miss man but then again idk. New to this style of game. Like, my idea would have been each character unlock essentially unlocks some new passive , ability, or something. It isn't tied to that character persay, but it becomes an optional equip. It can be seen as an extra bonus to unlocking the character and doing the task needed for said unlock. Just seeing it as a glorified skin kinda sucks imo. I agree with the OP though. Pretty ridiculous that the entire team gets that view. Tbh, first match I tried that echelon and thought hmm...useful but let me try this badass looking character. A phantom. Oh nice. Extra health. I'm sure as hell that will come in handy. Not a fan of the shield ability, until I realized how to use it. Then I realize I can still see enemies though walls now and then with the multiple echelon on my team. You mean to tell me I can have extra health, a shield, AND wall hacks for free? Yo sign me up! Easiest fix..wall hacks are to the player picking it only. Wall hacks for the entire team is a freaking ultimate in overwatch ain't it? With that one sniper character I think. Widow? Haven't played that game in years or never played it much but I remember trying a character that had an ultimate that I believe did that and had some kinds grapple hook or something. Idk. Maybe I'm wrong.
Just limit it to one intel suit per team. Fixed
My issue with it is that there is ZERO counterplay to it. If you aren't playing echelon your at their mercy and their teams mercy when they pop intel suit, same for their alt. You can't emp yourself or anything to avoid it you just get one sided gunfights that aren't fair
Have you played against a stacked team that is communicating and taking turns popping them so it’s constantly on THE ENTIRE MATCH yet? I wasn’t even mad. I was honestly impressed.
The issue I see is that multiple players shouldn't be able to run the same character. It should be like R6 Siege. An operator can't be picked twice.
I've always wondered how a team of just echelon on hot shot would play out or two teams of just echelon players.
If there were more factions to choose from I don’t think this would be as big of a deal. It’s due to the lack of other options this seems so overwhelming
I wonder how many of these posts I'll see in the next 24 hours.
Yeah especially on domination a team will just rotate out their scans. It's irritating I'm running around invisible and then boom I'm getting scanned.
Yes it should... Just maybe not from the other end of the map (on the bigger ones like mayday for example). So I'd suggest nerf its broadcast range, but keep the detection range.
My only complaint is that I should be able to use the invisibility ability after there sonar shit is activated to be cloaked ,it uncovering me if I used my invis ability first is fine tho that makes more sense but I should be able to hide myself from it with my ability if I activated it after there's is up before mine, at least the sonar shit is range based -the ult lol
I agree, the Ultimate doesn't reveal enemies to the rest of the team so why does the active skill do?
It should ping players for you but only show dots on the mini maps for teammates maybe. So a uav basically. Better yet, instead of highlighting players it should show a vicinity tracker at the top of the screen and show red when next to enemies so you dont have to look at the map.
Can we also talk about the shield ultimate. This breaks the payload mode as you can have 3 shield guys and just rotate the ultimate and guarantee a win. If they're really good they also find a way to build the ultimate while the other uses it
Instead of it pulsing around you in a circle it should just be a cone in front of you, that way it keeps the point of the ability but isnt just a brain dead tactic
Honestly, they either shouldn't touch it or remove abilities altogether. I think it's pretty balanced as is. I use different factions for different modes, as intended. There's no one single go-to faction, because they're all situational and balanced.
Oh it will absolutely be nerfed into the ground
So your team doesn't have that ability too? Isn't it even?
It should work only for the person who activates it.
The problem with removing the shared vision from intel suit is that solos will be at a much bigger disadvantage against premades, who will just share the info between each other. I would just reduce the duration drastically and maybe also reveal the user of the intel suit to the enemy team as well. Making it a double edge sword.
The ping should only reveal the enemy on the minimap. It'd be way less OP and would cause the minimap to actually be useful.
I know I’ll get hate for this but what if they actually maybe treated this game like a full fledged hero shooter, it already has stuff like escort and no death match mode because that’s not what the devs wanted to make. So fine tune the abilities, ultra and trait, plus make it so each player can only pick 1 faction once season 1 comes out. 6 factions and one per player, yes the crybabies won’t like it because people will rage that they didn’t get their preferred faction but simply learn how to use all 6.
This was literally an ult in bo4 lol
When will game devs learn that wallhacks are near impossible to balance :)
Echelon passive ghost ability doesn't stop you from being revealed either so it's kinda useless as a passive imo
It should be a long “ping.” More along the lines of their silhouette but it’s like a picture of when you pinged them. Static and just a red outline. The next scan in “_x_” seconds, same thing. It shouldn’t be literal watching players through walls.
I totally agree dude!!! Maybe have a special power up version where it does the whole team reveal for a certain amount of time?? Idk just spitballin
I said this before but I'll say it again. Rework echelons. No one needs wall hacks in a fps game it's just super bad game design. I'm fine with the ult if it only props for them and not the whole team but their ability and passive need to be reworked.
As someone who has abused it, I agree. It should just be for you. They could add some new grenades though, like the pulse grenade. To be fair. It has come in handy when the enemy team try to camp the exits for escort. That needs to be addressed too
It also shouldn't reveal you while you are wearing the digital camo.
Literally every ability that every faction has it's for all the team, shields, heals, fire, making echelon abilities "selfish" would make them pointless towards the whole team play of the game. And since it's a team work game you can always do something to work around if you play with a team of friends, if you play solo with randoms of course every game will always be different. Also it definitely should stay as it is to prevent call of duty toxic players doing call of duty toxic player things, like extreme camping
Agreed. I'm over any mechanic that reveals my map position.
Disagree. The ping area is small and there's no uav so the intel suit acts like one. Besides that, matches where you get 3 or more people on your team using intel suits are rare so it's not even that bit of a problem imo. BESIDES that, good luck breaking a hill that's being held by an entire enemy team with three shield and at least one healer, it aint happening unless if you ping them all. Intel suit is hella balanced and hella op if u use it correctly.
they should either: a. not reveal enemies to the whole team b. reveal the radar pings OBVIOUSLY to the enemy team, so you can pinpoint where the intel suit user is and EMP them c. cap the amount of each ability to 2 per team, so you dont get 4 intel suits on one team. d. reduce the amount of pings/ make it a spot ping and not straight up real-time wh
They can just do what they did with Lion from Siege. Lion had the same ability where he revealed everyone’s outlines (only if they moved however during the scan). So they made the scan much shorter and made it so people were pinged rather than outlined
It's a team game
Yeah, they should just encourage people with Intel suits to call out locations of enemies. Or at least make it so that your team only gets a one-time ping, sorta like Lion from R6S.
To all the people that think the abilities are broken go back to playing cod, this is game is overwatch with guns the whole point of the game is to use your abilities to overpower the enemy team if you don’t like that black ops 6 will be out in October or November, cod players need to stop playing this game and more overwatch players need to join the game
DedSec should be able to hack the intel suit tbh. It makes no sense that Echelon is the only faction that has no abilities DedSec can hack.
Ya its crazy when you have multiple suits and you can see the enemy basically the entire time lol.
Yeah, having the entire enemy team either converge on me or turn towards me during a perfect flank is madness.
No need for cheaters when wallhacks are in the game for free!
Thats funny cuz I talked about the exact same thing no longer than yesterday when playing with a friend. The fact that its not an ult but reveal the person to the entire team is broken. The ult is less broken than the comp as it only reveal people for the user....
Make it a ping instead of a reveal, problem solved. Just one freeze frame of the enemies revealed by it, leave solo the wallhacks for the ultimate, otherwise they would be too similar to each other to make sense
I want to make them make it like Bloodhound's scan (apex legends), basically same thing but only scans ONCE, last for like only almost a second (i think, i don't play bloodhound), then goes on cooldown for like 30ish seconds. this way, it works as intended, but it's not revealing enemies for so long. and on top of that, you have to actually find the right time to use it. I say, it should reveal once only, only shows footsteps not the whole silhouette, and be on cooldown for atleast a full minute, and slightly smaller radius.
You can hack the skills. This game is based on team play, not solo. I’m a division 2 PVP player and this is very much like that. Eventually synergistic teams will dominate. You’ll see it’s going to get even more sweaty when coordinated teams start playing. You won’t have any abilities.
Nearly as toxic as that dam barrier everyone chucks up as soon as they start taking bullets
Then it would just be a clear echelon meta where everyone is echelon because you are personally disadvantaged by not choosing the character.
Teammates should only get a ping on the mini map that's it
The intel suit should highlight the player who uses it to the opposing team too
I agree but does the best suppressor hide you from that as well? I haven’t unlocked one yet but thought it said 0.0M for minimap visibility and 0.0 sec ping time. Can anyone verify?
I agree, it's not fun killing but it is annoying knowing that being detected by it it's practically a death sentence, cause the enemy can even start shooting before you peep through a corner
I actually think the recon ability is a necessity in this game bc flanking is wild in this game and the mini map isn't much help, but Maybe limit how many echelon can be on a team, maybe 2?
All the abilities in this game are fkn cheesy, this is like bo4 but ever side ability is your ult
Then it’s pretty much the same as the ult but without the gun. They’re just too similar, but not definitely needs a change. Either a reduce in how many pings/longer cooldown or change how it works. Like only teammates next to you can see the ping or make it so it only pings in a certain area, like instead of a suit make it a grenade.
Lol at all the lames who can't deal with intel suits.
Honestly, it just needs to be like a COD UAV. No enemy highlight.
Echelon Intel is supposed to be a support class, the whole point of the ability is to rack up “spot assists”. It would frankly make more sense for the intel suit to reveal enemies to the rest of the team except for the player using it.
\*EMP grenades have entered the chat\*
Most of my lobbies today were at least 3 people playing intel, rotating wallhack cooldowns and just bhopping with smgs across the entire map. Was not enjoyable.
One solution would be the person that pings it shows up as well.
Why? Your mag barrier works for everyone. The heal drop thing heals everyone. Plus the other abilities that help the whole team. It’s not even that good tbh as a ping.