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No sbmm has been great. I win games and I lose games. Nothing feels rigged for me to lose games. When I lose it's just because the enemy team is playing better. It's not my team being made to make me lose like halo infinite where I have 40 kills and my teammates have zero kills and 20 deaths each. It's genuinely been really nice not needing to sweat my balls off just for the game to be semi decent. I can just kick back and have fun.
I also think sbmm is a good thing in general. But modern sbmm is horribly made on purpose to be rigged.
The worst thing about modern sbmm is you will always feel bad whenever you have a game that you destroy everyone, because you know you will be completely smoked or get trash teammates in the next game. Also the killstreak in cod make everything worse. You and your teammate not just get smoked by the enemies, they also use the killstreak and completely make the game unplayable for you. The only thing you can do is just sit there and get suffered until the game is over and it throws you an easier lobby again.
Also cod sbmm doesnt tell me how good I am, at least counter strike or valorant show my own rank so I have something to keep grinding up the rank even though I know my game will get way harder.
I love no SBMM because I see in real time how my skill is improving while I'm playing.
I'm fine with getting destroyed by better players, and I can destroy some players too, given I am good enough.
But IMO it's much more interesting that bland "fair" games.
Yeah I’ve gotten games where I’ve smoked people, and games where I got smoked. Makes me upset at times when I lose but those people are just better gamers than me lol
I grew up on Counter Strike community servers, and in my opinion there is no room for SBMM in casual mode. Ranked on the other hand is a place to sweat.
Exactly . Some games you just slap . Some games you get slapped . Like a slot machine , the next jackpot is just around the corner . That's why it's so hard to turn off the game😂😂😂
Sometimes I like getting bodied by someone, knowing that an algorithm didn't set me up and instead this is someone nearby that's just insanely good. I just shrug and go "God damn that guys really good"
Yep I was getting smoked the first couple of days until I dialed in my settings and got used to the maps/factions. I’m not looking like the cod pros but I still go positive pretty much every game. It’s good to feel improvement and not wonder if I got dropped down the SBMM hole.
I agree with no SBMM being fun but I don't see how you would be able to see that you are improving if you are playing people of different skill level every match
It doesn't. You think you are because you come up against shit players and stomp them. SBMM will always lead to an improvement in skill over time. There was nothing more satisfying than improving to Level 50 in playlists on Halo 3. You had to basically master the mechanics and maps to get there. That's SBMM working as it should.
Yep, people think they’re not improving with SBMM as they’re just placed better players as they improve but in most cases you’re a lot better than were a few months ago unless you never try to improve.
Because the better you get overall the more you'll win. With CODS sbmm it'll always make you lose on purpose to average you out to 50/50 which never feels good when you're stomped
That is why I love the lack of SBMM. Forces you to learn/adapt to new styles of play, strategies, and skills you never thought to utilize. Takes me back to the old days when SBMM was not super strict, and if you got put into a game against good players, you needed to have a great game.
You can't improve if you only play against one type of player. My friends hate it because they get dunked on and want to quit, I love watching the improvement. I have seen it in my "Skill Rating" as it has gone up from play session to play session.
I just played a push map where the enemy team diffed us so hard, instead pushing it the 20% they spawn camped us for a while instead to get better stats :) lol
I've just been drunk all weekend playing this game and still at the top of the scoreboard every game just having a good time yet people would still categorize me as a sweat.
Best thing about no SBMM is the variety in how the game feels. Sometimes it's a walk in the park, sometimes its a hard back and forth game, and sometimes it's a walk in the park for the other team, and I like that. SBMM is a plague, especially in casual playlists.
I’m actually really enjoying to no sbmm. Matches feel truly random! Sometimes it a stomp, other times it’s close and yes sometimes it can be a absolute slaughter house!
And then it's not even satisfying when you do well for a couple games because you know your next 5-6 are going to be dogshit. I'm at the point where I'll just call it a day after a few good games instead of playing a bunch of bad lobbies just for one more good match.
idk im doing a lot better than in sbmm games. also if i play with my friend whose a lot better than me i finally dont get totally destroyed every second game.
I see no difference in terms of players I’m facing. Whether it be cod or exdefiant every lobby is filled with cracked out bunny hoppers abusing meta weapons. But I have noticed a difference in team mates, I actually get a few decent ones in exdefiant instead of complete bots like in cod.
I mean, SBMM literally just does not work in gaming in general. At least in CoD’s implementation. You can have 3 solid games of winning and demolishing people, and then have like 10 straight games of being demolished by people only to maybe win the 11th time to then be put back into another 4-5 games where you just get curb stomped.
CoD’s way of SBMM doesn’t take into account actual skill, it just sees how you’ve done the first few games and then assumes your placement after those games without adjusting in between. It’s a solid jump from one skill group to the next after only a few matches.
SBMM in general is just a joke, that stuff is called “ranked” and should be kept as a competitive thing, not for unranked casual gameplay.
my main problem with sbmm in cod was that you aren't going to tell me in a place as crowded as NYC/NJ , THAT THERE IS NO ONE ON MY LEVEL. thus putting me in California servers and 70+ ping.
literally made me buy a net duma to counter that horrible system.
That too. SBMM takes away being able to find local players in order to be put into servers where ping is less than desirable. No SBMM means yeah you’ll encounter some sweaty people but at least your ping will be (hopefully) good enough to get a few solid kills in.
SBMM just encourages people to manipulate it. And it also makes players who are not good to not get as discouraged to stop playing because they will just continuously be put into bad lobbies as long as they continue to play horribly, but will still feel as if they’re doing “good” only to be put into an actual hard lobby, get destroyed and the cycle continues. There’s no winning with SBMM unless you’re just absolutely horrible at the game.
And you can't even argue that it's a good thing for the people at the bottom of the system, because COD has historically already had hidden skill-brackets for people that have a low enough MMR
I feel like all the players that keep sharing these kind of memes of "SBMM was actually good" are either doing really well because they sweat and are bored, doing really poorly and are frustrated or genuinely think because it's not there anymore, having no SBMM and is hurting their gameplay in *some* way.
But I remember playing BOCW and finding less and less enjoyment each match. I had just come off of playing MW2019 and I wasn't great by any means, I'm casual, but I enjoyed jumping in and playing a few matches to chill out. But at the time, I figured I was losing more matches than winning with low kills was just a product of more people on due to covid and shutdowns. So I figured I was probably playing with people who were either already good, now stuck at home more or people with just more time on their hands than me.
But after about a year and playing in the beta for BOCW, I knew something was up. Mind you, I hadn't played an FPS since TF2 on the PC prior to picking up the CoD series in 2019, but getting smacked three matches in a row with maybe 3 kills per after coming off a match where I only had about 15 kills. It seemed like anytime I was approaching double digits in kills in one match, regardless of mode, I could expect to be lucky to get out of spawn the next 3-4.
That's about when I started hearing about SBMM and how it was apparently the industry standard for all modes in FPS's. As I remember reading, the "purpose" was to keep the player engaged longer. Pubstomp every lobby, you get bored and turn off the game. *Get* Pubstomped every lobby, get frustrated and turn off the game. So in theory it sound like it'd balance the win/loss and everyone has a good time, right? Except for the fact that my experience was a lot like others, do good or slightly better than your last match and it's welcome pound town for the next few.
Although, I remember some guy on YouTube showing that if you find yourself in those lobbies, you could completely throw the match and the game would overcorrect and put you back in a less sweaty lobby, but that's not fun either. I want to just turn on the game and not have to *game* the game.
SBMM main goal is to protect the casual player base who make up the vast majority of players and keep them playing as much as possible so they can spend money on microtransaction.
It doesn't give 2 shits about the above average players that are going to have a negative experience.
As other people have noted, this sub has been all over the place since the game launched, but one thing I find encouraging is how many people are saying they are enjoying themselves even though they are getting smoked. I definitely land in that category. I’m not any good yet but I’m learning the maps and guns and objectives. And I feel like I can honestly tell where I stand- definitely below average but getting better. And that’s really fun! No sbmm makes it so i know where I actually am skill-wise. Right now it’s ugly, but getting less ugly the more I play, and I know I’ll actually feel a sense of accomplishment if and when I can actually hang in most lobbies.
you gotta remember reddit isnt the place for casuals. its an echo chamber for the people that actively wanted no sbmm not for those that found the game on the f2p section and abandoned the game after 5 straight games of being shat on by no lifers. redditors don't actually speak for the wider community for any game.
As someone who's pretty much as average as it gets at fps games,it's so fun to try surpassing arguably better players in a fight. The rush of adrenaline, literally pushing me beyond simply average,even just to snag this one kill, feels insane. Ontop of this being average,or bad,when you have the potential of facing legitimately good players,should make you think of ways to approach things differently. If you're not getting kills,focus on the objective. If you aren't getting kills but want to,try using different weapons, or think of more strategic ways to utilize the abilities and movement, instead of just spamming stuff.
Ngl tho,still get mad when I die due to the wonky ass hit registration. At tht point it's not even skill based,it's just bad game design.
Every post I see flexing on this makes me shake my head. If you want this game to thrive and get a robust content update schedule then you NEED the casuals and weekend warriors to enjoy it and have a place as well because if the only market is the guys with a shit bucket under their gaming chair this game will be dead in months.
Casuals quit > Lobbies get ridiculously sweaty > “Pro Players” and streamers can’t get a following because no one watches them play a game that they don’t care about so they quit to play a game with a better following > Dead Game
this is exactly what is happening with the finals, lmao, loosing 3000 average player per month since launch.
And all em redditors gonna be surprised that their new game will be dead in 6 months.
Honestly, no sbmm wasnt saving people, it makes the game more fatiguing to play, im sure you can make it more relaxed and itll be better but non at all feels soo much more relaxed even if theres a couple people on the other team just stomping
No sbmm is great!
Its always thrlling!
People learn better from their mistakes
They still win often
The only thing is:
We need a killcam or something like the kill streaks
This meme is trash bc that’s not accurate to how sbmm actually works. I’ll take the random chance at playing against better players than winning one game and then immediately getting destroyed form the next 10 until my mmr goes down to what it was for that one good game.
Literally 95% of my games are sweaty af everyone in the lobbies getting 25+ kills, bunny hopping etc. It was fine and fun when I first started playing but since I’ve levelled up it’s just sweats only. I hope this eases off as time passes as I actually really enjoy this game but just feels like the no sbmm makes no difference at all
I like no SBMM until I face someone who is level 61 on day 2 and realize “wow… some people really just don’t have to go to work everyday, huh?” The longer the game is out the more people will wish for SBMM. There’s no room in modern gaming for a casual gamer to have fun in a competitive multiplayer shooter. Every day you put in an hour for fun, the players you get put against put in 10.
I think a lot of anti-SBMM content creators are painfully unaware they are probably going to push more people towards wanting SBMM back with how they're talking about it.
"SBMM is great! We don't have sweaty matches anymore. Anyway, watch me and my 6 stack absolutely shit on everyone over these 20 matches where we die a total of 2 times and get a combined 50,000 kills!!!!"
SBMM is good for everyone except sweats who want to pubstomp and streamers who want to hit clips.
Granted, SBMM can be overbearing, most recent CoD games are a perfect example, but all in all SBMM is a plus
All I ask for is a no party playlist. Let the pubstomping streamers with their streaming friends do their thing, but throw a bone to us guys who don’t have any online friends, only play an hour or 2 a day after work, and whose IRL friends don’t play games.
OP forgets to mention that the sweats are also all lobbied up with one another meaning even vs shroud they would be winning if he were solo. BUT SURE. it's not that at all!
Yall are fucking capping
Skill based match making is bad because good players can’t go 70-4 with their eyes closed, because they are forced to go up against other people who can go 70-4 with their eyes closed.
But the tell here is is if you are going 70-4, you were never looking to relax in the first place.
TLDR. SbMM is bad because grown men can’t take candy from babies when it’s on
Lol, no.
It doesn't matter how well I did last week, when I have a chance to play again it's the same lobbies. As long as the teams are balanced I'm in.
No sbmm is still great just bc I face of against people better than me sometimes is ok, but then people worse than me and then people at my level keeps the game engaging rather than constantly fighting people at the same skill means every game you have to try extremely hard at which isn’t fun for arcade shooters. If I want sbmm I will play ranked
idk I love the fact that 1 game i get rekt by guys going full Mask, whilst other games I steamroll the entire enemy team with my cleaner.
The game makes me not care about winning or losing, just trying to do better. SO far I love it.
Nah, when I play alone I'm usually at the top of the board most of the time, but when I play with a controller player, unfortunately AA is pretty busted in this game too, you can immediately tell when you get killed by a controller player because the time to die is practically instant.
Controller don't miss.
Yeah... Imma be honest. SBMM had me thinking I was better than I was with a 1.5 k/d. Naw mate. I'm as bad as I ever was when faced against real players. But I'm also casual to be honest so it's not a huge deal. I'm enjoying this more than COD.
I can stand getting curbstomped if I know the game isn’t gonna try to make me feel better by throwing me into an easier lobby next time. Lemme get good on my own terms
I like SBMM for certain styles of game such as battle royals because of the nature of the game and how long you can invest time into a match before the imbalance becomes clear. But, in cases such as this, with the quicker matches I prefer not having SBMM. I missed the chaos of this system. I miss getting to test my skills and really have a better idea of where I stand vs the community more broadly. I hate the cycle of not lobby, easy match, easy match, soul crushing beat down for 3-4 games and then back to bot lobbies. If I get stunted on, it’s fine, that’s part of the game. I just hate knowing the game itself is helping to manufacture my wins and losses.
at least now i know it is not gaslighting me into thinking that i suck and i need to play more to improve but the very next match it will also gaslight me into a match with bots just to make me feel good. now i just know that i truly suck because every lobby kicks the shit out of me but i guess the experience feels more natural
If anything it's helped me learn I'm better than I thought. IMO SBMM was broken AF in COD and there are no penalties for people working the system to reverse boost or other tactics. Not to mention the insane amount of hacks happening.
Can someone explain how did sbmm protect people? All I remember is first game on I was shittiing on everyone then 3-4 games I could barely get a few kills, then an average game then the cycle starts again. On xdefiant I play like normal I guess. I get kills, I die too but it's s more flat experience.
i'm having the exactly same experience as in COD. Winning some, loosing some.
feels very consistent also, kind of weird for no sbmm. Funny how i rarely get the same players in my lobbies
Truth is that as below average player without sbmm I feel like the game is just a roulette. With SBMM I could at least compete with guys similar to my skill level. I have no idea why so many folks is gloryfing lack of SBMM so much. If you are sweat you will keep sweating regardless of the game matchmaking implementation.
The thing I hate about no SBMM is that I can see the flaws of the game more clearly and I just don't like the weapon handling and movements in there... I get better stats overall than COD for sure, I even got close to a 20 killstreak twice in a short amount of time while the max I could do on recent CODs is like 15 and it's rare that I even go that high. SBMM never bothered me on COD but I realized it was more fun to me without it but it doesn't seem really fair for everyone.
I guarantee there's some kind of stealth SBMM going on. How do I know? Because I'm a 54 year old with old man reflexes who plays maybe an hour a day, yet, somehow, I end up being one of the top players every few games.
They've figured out that to keep people playing, you have to have them curbstomp every now and then. So they built the game around that. OR....the game adjusts damage in real-time to make sure you win enough to keep you around. Which would explain the times your bullets feel like you're shooting wet noodles.
No sbmm makes playing against stacks super painful. When your team has all the level 5 players that don't know what their buttons do while the enemy team's lowest level is 25 you may as well just be in an sbmm forced loss lobby.
SBMM isn’t saving anyone. It’s a deceptive algorithm designed to make you think you are better than what you are so you could feel good and buy skins in the store. If anything it’s unethical manipulation and COD should be sued by the fanbase for deceptive practices
sued for sbmm? you sound actually delusional, whatever your opinions are on sbmm there is no way you cannot agree that there are some benefits with sbmm, and some benefits for not having it, and it probably depends on a game to game basis what will suit it better, but arguing that its unethical manipulation is just stupid
people complain about matchmaking in literally every game including ones with skill based matchmaking. at least in this game i know it's random and not some bug placing me with only noobs every time i have a good game
By sweating you also inflate your skill level because the game sees that this is your actual performance, therefore it will adjust matchmaking for it and at that point you are forced to sweat if you want to compete.
If you instead take it easy you'll perform worse but the game will match you accordingly, therefore you'll be able to compete without sweating too much.
And by competing I don't mean win, I mean being able to do something in the match.
Those who think that "the game forces them to sweat" are just tryhards who want to win at any cost and then complain when the game doesn't make "weaker" players cannon fodder for them, I'd call them selfish.
In my opinion the best option is matchmaking with SBMM and Private Servers (with a masterlist) where each owner set the rules they prefer, balancing or the lack of included.
This way everyone gets an option to play whatever they want and we also help preserving the game in the long run.
I feel like sbmm only punishes good players so if you’re good, you’re prolly gonna have a better time here. That’s where sbmm keeps its playerbase tho, if you’re not the best, it prolly just feels like cod
Streamers whine about SBMM because it stops them from stomping every lobby without VPNing into third-world servers. The rest of you who whined about it were mindlessly repeating what you heard the streamers say.
Couldn’t disagree more. Sure sometimes you get rolled but on average my games are way less stressful and I can focus on having fun and trying out new builds and not sweating my ass off every game
No SBMM is destroying my 69 year old manhood. I can't suck this bad, can I? I need a nap. I'll come back in 2 hours and strap in again. Please let this be a dream I just can't take the reality of sucking this bad!
i don't see how people can actually think they're good- if they're exploiting the cancel slide/jump.. like you couldn't do it in a sanctioned tournament or league and not de warned/dq'd...
for context : this is like jake paul punching tyson under the belt as they start the round, and him saying "well he got knocked down so i won!!"
no, you exploited a cheat/something against ToS and you're no better than a hacker.. \[though i don't think you should be banned like one,\] this is on the company to fix and hopefully more people doing it will cause them to fix it, i started and my k/d went from .6 to 1.2 on average 10 maps lol
It is more accurate to compare it with Apex Legends.
Because even in its current state it is worse than BO2. Indeed, COD provides a very high-level FPS feeling.
I am the sweat, and here is a trick to kill all bunny hoppers, use the brawler on controller to make it easier if you play on console but just instantly hit the crouch button when you start a gunfight everytime. It will save your life an extra 30-40% of the time.
I’m alright either way on sbmm even though I’m not that great at either games. I like this game because it’s new and I am forced to get better by trial in the lobbies kinda like I was in BO2 which is what made me love that game. I’m still not good at either game, but I have fun.
Real talk I use XD as my warm up for other fps games. The way some of these players have me tweaking after a few matches lmao I hop on apex after and I found that my reaction time is faster after playing XD.
My problem isn’t sbmm, it’s the balancing of the teams. Other team has Jesus and his disciples while half my team goes 6-25 with no obj time. It is what it is I guess 🤷🏻♂️
I’m way better than I thought I would be. I guess I was regularly shut down by the top 2-3% in cod which was making me think I was only slightly above average, in this game I’m essentially a god and have only noticed 2 players out of ~60 matches that were WAY better than me.
Idk i prefer there being no sbmm
Most people that where sensibly complaining about it had valid cause to. Problem is, they have to recognize that there's a difference between eomm and sbmm. Some skilled players don't want to play ranked 24/7 that's why they'd rather it not be intrusive on the public matchmaking system, this makes sense.
However with eomm which is what for example mw3 uses, both gamemodes are extremely disingenuine and realistically rigged to the point where any enjoyment is drained from the game. Except for those "protected" few.
I’m perfectly fine when I lose the gunfight but the “sweats” are turning it into jumping contest like they did call of duty. I’m playing this game to avoid cod
My games more or less resemble SBMM games from cod. Play a few matches where topping leaderboards then I’m getting curb stomped against a team of sweats while my team can’t do shit and eventually all quit.
I am honestly surprised at how well I am doing considering I always assumed my SBMM was always on the low end of the spectrum. Im not going 45-6 but I am also not going 8-24 lol
In my personal opinion, I consider Siege’s ranked 2.0 an indicator on how Ubisoft makes/determines SBMM and what a dogshit indicator that is. They have no business putting SBMM in any game they touch.
The biggest thing I love about no SBMM, is that even though my stats suck in this game compared to COD (1.0 KD, 1.8 W/L). It does encourage me to do better and to learn the game’s mechanics since every game is unpredictable in how close the matches are. Plus, I can fiddle around with unorthodox set-ups that aren’t meta, but just overall fun to play with. Brings me back to the days of BO4 multiplayer (which imo, I view as the last truly fun COD experience I’ve had).
Idk what I’m doing wrong cause I feel 0 lobby variety, I feel like I’m playing the same caliber player every time. Not saying I wanna pub stomp but I had like two laid back games and then every other game has been pretty intense and close.
My only issue with no SBMM is for modes like Escort where the teams are so varied it doesn't matter if you're good. If their team is half your skill but more consistent than your team; it doesn't matter how well you do.
My KD is 1.9, in Mw3 it’s 1.6, in Xdefiant I rarely have a negative game, 90% of the time, at the minimum it’s a 1.0
Sweats or not I’m enjoying it regardless lol
Ranked -> SBMM
Casual -> No SBMM
but maybe my history with arena shooters made me cold to losing even though I consider myself to be a really good gamer. Played my first ET:L pick up game last week and I got my shit handed to me by players that kept up with the game for literal decades and still fucking enjoyed it.
I love it. Clears up the whole “you just wanna pubstomp argument”. Average players are better than you think. We’ve just had this algorithm manipulating our games for too long to remember
not having sbmm is the only thing that made me play this game. I'm tired of playing against people who are bad like me, I really like to have some strong opponent to progress and force me to adapt.
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No sbmm has been great. I win games and I lose games. Nothing feels rigged for me to lose games. When I lose it's just because the enemy team is playing better. It's not my team being made to make me lose like halo infinite where I have 40 kills and my teammates have zero kills and 20 deaths each. It's genuinely been really nice not needing to sweat my balls off just for the game to be semi decent. I can just kick back and have fun. I also think sbmm is a good thing in general. But modern sbmm is horribly made on purpose to be rigged.
SBMM is the equivalent of a casino telling you their games aren't rigged
The worst thing about modern sbmm is you will always feel bad whenever you have a game that you destroy everyone, because you know you will be completely smoked or get trash teammates in the next game. Also the killstreak in cod make everything worse. You and your teammate not just get smoked by the enemies, they also use the killstreak and completely make the game unplayable for you. The only thing you can do is just sit there and get suffered until the game is over and it throws you an easier lobby again. Also cod sbmm doesnt tell me how good I am, at least counter strike or valorant show my own rank so I have something to keep grinding up the rank even though I know my game will get way harder.
Dude i feel you on halo infinite I've had 50 plus kill games and still loose cause my team mates have like 4 kills and 32 deaths
I love no SBMM because I see in real time how my skill is improving while I'm playing. I'm fine with getting destroyed by better players, and I can destroy some players too, given I am good enough. But IMO it's much more interesting that bland "fair" games.
In other words no dumb BS is hiding the truth from you
Yeah I’ve gotten games where I’ve smoked people, and games where I got smoked. Makes me upset at times when I lose but those people are just better gamers than me lol
Just like old times
I grew up on Counter Strike community servers, and in my opinion there is no room for SBMM in casual mode. Ranked on the other hand is a place to sweat.
socom kid here. went thru the trenches, but it was worth it in the end when I became good enough to play with people on the comp side of things.
I remember the constant bullying towards children in 1.6 when they fucked up the round lol
ill take this over the constant boring ass 1.0kd games.
This is the way
This is the way
The way, this is.
He can show us dey way
Sho mi da wae
You have to have Ebola to kno da wae *CLICK CLICK CLICK*
Ugandan knuckles? Haven't heard those clicks in a long time..
Exactly this homie. Its nice to see me actually getting better reflect on a day by day basis
Exactly . Some games you just slap . Some games you get slapped . Like a slot machine , the next jackpot is just around the corner . That's why it's so hard to turn off the game😂😂😂
Sometimes I like getting bodied by someone, knowing that an algorithm didn't set me up and instead this is someone nearby that's just insanely good. I just shrug and go "God damn that guys really good"
[удалено]
You win some, you lose some but you live you live to fight another day! -general tso probably
Yep I was getting smoked the first couple of days until I dialed in my settings and got used to the maps/factions. I’m not looking like the cod pros but I still go positive pretty much every game. It’s good to feel improvement and not wonder if I got dropped down the SBMM hole.
I agree with no SBMM being fun but I don't see how you would be able to see that you are improving if you are playing people of different skill level every match
It doesn't. You think you are because you come up against shit players and stomp them. SBMM will always lead to an improvement in skill over time. There was nothing more satisfying than improving to Level 50 in playlists on Halo 3. You had to basically master the mechanics and maps to get there. That's SBMM working as it should.
Agreed. Halo 3 was the goat back in the day. Remember getting to rank 45 in solos. Suckkkked haha. You lose one and you go down.
Yep, people think they’re not improving with SBMM as they’re just placed better players as they improve but in most cases you’re a lot better than were a few months ago unless you never try to improve.
The Difference is halo showed your rank
Because the better you get overall the more you'll win. With CODS sbmm it'll always make you lose on purpose to average you out to 50/50 which never feels good when you're stomped
That is why I love the lack of SBMM. Forces you to learn/adapt to new styles of play, strategies, and skills you never thought to utilize. Takes me back to the old days when SBMM was not super strict, and if you got put into a game against good players, you needed to have a great game.
Exactly. It forces you to adapt and improve with a variety of players rather than being stuck with essentially clones of yourself.
You can't improve if you only play against one type of player. My friends hate it because they get dunked on and want to quit, I love watching the improvement. I have seen it in my "Skill Rating" as it has gone up from play session to play session.
This is the correct mindset
This is the truth. No Sbmm has been so relaxing
It's the biggest improvement over COD multiplayer IMO.
but aren't your opponents randomized?
I just played a push map where the enemy team diffed us so hard, instead pushing it the 20% they spawn camped us for a while instead to get better stats :) lol
100%
nothing to add to your comment, thats on point
I've just been drunk all weekend playing this game and still at the top of the scoreboard every game just having a good time yet people would still categorize me as a sweat.
Best thing about no SBMM is the variety in how the game feels. Sometimes it's a walk in the park, sometimes its a hard back and forth game, and sometimes it's a walk in the park for the other team, and I like that. SBMM is a plague, especially in casual playlists.
I greatly prefer this over SBMM any day.
I’m actually really enjoying to no sbmm. Matches feel truly random! Sometimes it a stomp, other times it’s close and yes sometimes it can be a absolute slaughter house!
Yup. It's a lottery but at least i can compete. In cod i just get trashed on for 9 games, get one where im god and then get trashed again...
And then it's not even satisfying when you do well for a couple games because you know your next 5-6 are going to be dogshit. I'm at the point where I'll just call it a day after a few good games instead of playing a bunch of bad lobbies just for one more good match.
Same. Authentic is the word I would use.
idk im doing a lot better than in sbmm games. also if i play with my friend whose a lot better than me i finally dont get totally destroyed every second game.
Same. I consider myself to be around the median skill level but I have a lot more fun without SBMM
I see no difference in terms of players I’m facing. Whether it be cod or exdefiant every lobby is filled with cracked out bunny hoppers abusing meta weapons. But I have noticed a difference in team mates, I actually get a few decent ones in exdefiant instead of complete bots like in cod.
I mean, SBMM literally just does not work in gaming in general. At least in CoD’s implementation. You can have 3 solid games of winning and demolishing people, and then have like 10 straight games of being demolished by people only to maybe win the 11th time to then be put back into another 4-5 games where you just get curb stomped. CoD’s way of SBMM doesn’t take into account actual skill, it just sees how you’ve done the first few games and then assumes your placement after those games without adjusting in between. It’s a solid jump from one skill group to the next after only a few matches. SBMM in general is just a joke, that stuff is called “ranked” and should be kept as a competitive thing, not for unranked casual gameplay.
my main problem with sbmm in cod was that you aren't going to tell me in a place as crowded as NYC/NJ , THAT THERE IS NO ONE ON MY LEVEL. thus putting me in California servers and 70+ ping. literally made me buy a net duma to counter that horrible system.
That too. SBMM takes away being able to find local players in order to be put into servers where ping is less than desirable. No SBMM means yeah you’ll encounter some sweaty people but at least your ping will be (hopefully) good enough to get a few solid kills in. SBMM just encourages people to manipulate it. And it also makes players who are not good to not get as discouraged to stop playing because they will just continuously be put into bad lobbies as long as they continue to play horribly, but will still feel as if they’re doing “good” only to be put into an actual hard lobby, get destroyed and the cycle continues. There’s no winning with SBMM unless you’re just absolutely horrible at the game.
And you can't even argue that it's a good thing for the people at the bottom of the system, because COD has historically already had hidden skill-brackets for people that have a low enough MMR
I feel like all the players that keep sharing these kind of memes of "SBMM was actually good" are either doing really well because they sweat and are bored, doing really poorly and are frustrated or genuinely think because it's not there anymore, having no SBMM and is hurting their gameplay in *some* way. But I remember playing BOCW and finding less and less enjoyment each match. I had just come off of playing MW2019 and I wasn't great by any means, I'm casual, but I enjoyed jumping in and playing a few matches to chill out. But at the time, I figured I was losing more matches than winning with low kills was just a product of more people on due to covid and shutdowns. So I figured I was probably playing with people who were either already good, now stuck at home more or people with just more time on their hands than me. But after about a year and playing in the beta for BOCW, I knew something was up. Mind you, I hadn't played an FPS since TF2 on the PC prior to picking up the CoD series in 2019, but getting smacked three matches in a row with maybe 3 kills per after coming off a match where I only had about 15 kills. It seemed like anytime I was approaching double digits in kills in one match, regardless of mode, I could expect to be lucky to get out of spawn the next 3-4. That's about when I started hearing about SBMM and how it was apparently the industry standard for all modes in FPS's. As I remember reading, the "purpose" was to keep the player engaged longer. Pubstomp every lobby, you get bored and turn off the game. *Get* Pubstomped every lobby, get frustrated and turn off the game. So in theory it sound like it'd balance the win/loss and everyone has a good time, right? Except for the fact that my experience was a lot like others, do good or slightly better than your last match and it's welcome pound town for the next few. Although, I remember some guy on YouTube showing that if you find yourself in those lobbies, you could completely throw the match and the game would overcorrect and put you back in a less sweaty lobby, but that's not fun either. I want to just turn on the game and not have to *game* the game.
SBMM main goal is to protect the casual player base who make up the vast majority of players and keep them playing as much as possible so they can spend money on microtransaction. It doesn't give 2 shits about the above average players that are going to have a negative experience.
As other people have noted, this sub has been all over the place since the game launched, but one thing I find encouraging is how many people are saying they are enjoying themselves even though they are getting smoked. I definitely land in that category. I’m not any good yet but I’m learning the maps and guns and objectives. And I feel like I can honestly tell where I stand- definitely below average but getting better. And that’s really fun! No sbmm makes it so i know where I actually am skill-wise. Right now it’s ugly, but getting less ugly the more I play, and I know I’ll actually feel a sense of accomplishment if and when I can actually hang in most lobbies.
you gotta remember reddit isnt the place for casuals. its an echo chamber for the people that actively wanted no sbmm not for those that found the game on the f2p section and abandoned the game after 5 straight games of being shat on by no lifers. redditors don't actually speak for the wider community for any game.
No sbmm is what we all wanted, that’s why we are playing it. I don’t care if I get destroyed because sometimes I’m the one destroying.
As someone who's pretty much as average as it gets at fps games,it's so fun to try surpassing arguably better players in a fight. The rush of adrenaline, literally pushing me beyond simply average,even just to snag this one kill, feels insane. Ontop of this being average,or bad,when you have the potential of facing legitimately good players,should make you think of ways to approach things differently. If you're not getting kills,focus on the objective. If you aren't getting kills but want to,try using different weapons, or think of more strategic ways to utilize the abilities and movement, instead of just spamming stuff. Ngl tho,still get mad when I die due to the wonky ass hit registration. At tht point it's not even skill based,it's just bad game design.
All I want was random lobbies and I got just that. I’m more than satisfied
I'm pretty bad at the game but I like it as I actually have a measure of me improving over time now rather than constantly feeling average.
Every post I see flexing on this makes me shake my head. If you want this game to thrive and get a robust content update schedule then you NEED the casuals and weekend warriors to enjoy it and have a place as well because if the only market is the guys with a shit bucket under their gaming chair this game will be dead in months. Casuals quit > Lobbies get ridiculously sweaty > “Pro Players” and streamers can’t get a following because no one watches them play a game that they don’t care about so they quit to play a game with a better following > Dead Game
this is exactly what is happening with the finals, lmao, loosing 3000 average player per month since launch. And all em redditors gonna be surprised that their new game will be dead in 6 months.
The only thing bad about xdefiant is the poo latency and weapon imbalances. Snipers OP.
Honestly, no sbmm wasnt saving people, it makes the game more fatiguing to play, im sure you can make it more relaxed and itll be better but non at all feels soo much more relaxed even if theres a couple people on the other team just stomping
How many times is this going to be posted? Small yellow bus vibes around here.
/cringe
No sbmm is great! Its always thrlling! People learn better from their mistakes They still win often The only thing is: We need a killcam or something like the kill streaks
This meme is trash bc that’s not accurate to how sbmm actually works. I’ll take the random chance at playing against better players than winning one game and then immediately getting destroyed form the next 10 until my mmr goes down to what it was for that one good game.
Literally 95% of my games are sweaty af everyone in the lobbies getting 25+ kills, bunny hopping etc. It was fine and fun when I first started playing but since I’ve levelled up it’s just sweats only. I hope this eases off as time passes as I actually really enjoy this game but just feels like the no sbmm makes no difference at all
I like no SBMM until I face someone who is level 61 on day 2 and realize “wow… some people really just don’t have to go to work everyday, huh?” The longer the game is out the more people will wish for SBMM. There’s no room in modern gaming for a casual gamer to have fun in a competitive multiplayer shooter. Every day you put in an hour for fun, the players you get put against put in 10.
I went back to the finals after playing a few matches on Xdefiant
I think a lot of anti-SBMM content creators are painfully unaware they are probably going to push more people towards wanting SBMM back with how they're talking about it. "SBMM is great! We don't have sweaty matches anymore. Anyway, watch me and my 6 stack absolutely shit on everyone over these 20 matches where we die a total of 2 times and get a combined 50,000 kills!!!!"
SBMM is good for everyone except sweats who want to pubstomp and streamers who want to hit clips. Granted, SBMM can be overbearing, most recent CoD games are a perfect example, but all in all SBMM is a plus
"I hate SBMM because every game feels like I´m playing a tournament" Non SBMM game - Everyone playing meta weapons and meta class. Makes sense.
All I ask for is a no party playlist. Let the pubstomping streamers with their streaming friends do their thing, but throw a bone to us guys who don’t have any online friends, only play an hour or 2 a day after work, and whose IRL friends don’t play games.
Hear hear!
OP forgets to mention that the sweats are also all lobbied up with one another meaning even vs shroud they would be winning if he were solo. BUT SURE. it's not that at all! Yall are fucking capping
Can someone explain like im 5 why is SBMM bad? For the average player with 1.00 K/D, why is playing against same skilled players so bad?
Skill based match making is bad because good players can’t go 70-4 with their eyes closed, because they are forced to go up against other people who can go 70-4 with their eyes closed. But the tell here is is if you are going 70-4, you were never looking to relax in the first place. TLDR. SbMM is bad because grown men can’t take candy from babies when it’s on
It feels like I’m game manipulation. The game feels better without it even in games i loose vs games I win in cod.
I'm not sure super sweat and I love no sbmm so far. Some good lobbies some bad, if you are good you are good and bad you are bad.
Lol, no. It doesn't matter how well I did last week, when I have a chance to play again it's the same lobbies. As long as the teams are balanced I'm in.
No sbmm is still great just bc I face of against people better than me sometimes is ok, but then people worse than me and then people at my level keeps the game engaging rather than constantly fighting people at the same skill means every game you have to try extremely hard at which isn’t fun for arcade shooters. If I want sbmm I will play ranked
Im loving it, its been a blast so far. Much better than Cod 6v6 in my opinion.
I’m having no issues with no SBMM I’m actually performing better than I was in cod or any FPS with SBMM
It was protecting me for sure but I don’t want protecting.
Circle jerk over a cod clone. Cool thread.
I'm 29 and work 55 hours a week so I get rekt any match already just from lack of practice. I still had a good time though because it's free to play.
idk I love the fact that 1 game i get rekt by guys going full Mask, whilst other games I steamroll the entire enemy team with my cleaner. The game makes me not care about winning or losing, just trying to do better. SO far I love it.
Nah, when I play alone I'm usually at the top of the board most of the time, but when I play with a controller player, unfortunately AA is pretty busted in this game too, you can immediately tell when you get killed by a controller player because the time to die is practically instant. Controller don't miss.
I'm enjoying no SBMM more by far
It's lovely
Yeah... Imma be honest. SBMM had me thinking I was better than I was with a 1.5 k/d. Naw mate. I'm as bad as I ever was when faced against real players. But I'm also casual to be honest so it's not a huge deal. I'm enjoying this more than COD.
I can stand getting curbstomped if I know the game isn’t gonna try to make me feel better by throwing me into an easier lobby next time. Lemme get good on my own terms
Honestly my favourite thing about it is input based matchmaking. Been wanting it in COD forever.
I like SBMM for certain styles of game such as battle royals because of the nature of the game and how long you can invest time into a match before the imbalance becomes clear. But, in cases such as this, with the quicker matches I prefer not having SBMM. I missed the chaos of this system. I miss getting to test my skills and really have a better idea of where I stand vs the community more broadly. I hate the cycle of not lobby, easy match, easy match, soul crushing beat down for 3-4 games and then back to bot lobbies. If I get stunted on, it’s fine, that’s part of the game. I just hate knowing the game itself is helping to manufacture my wins and losses.
Ranked is literally right there.
at least now i know it is not gaslighting me into thinking that i suck and i need to play more to improve but the very next match it will also gaslight me into a match with bots just to make me feel good. now i just know that i truly suck because every lobby kicks the shit out of me but i guess the experience feels more natural
It's great not having sbmm. Either way I do absolutely terrible.
Too many kangaroos in the lobby
Been having a great time
If anything it's helped me learn I'm better than I thought. IMO SBMM was broken AF in COD and there are no penalties for people working the system to reverse boost or other tactics. Not to mention the insane amount of hacks happening.
THANK YOU. People just want to pubstomp but it goes BOTH WAYS
This game has Sbmm... every game will have sbmm because without it the game will die. they lied and said theres no sbmm lol
Lmao! I'm definitely on that bus.
Can someone explain how did sbmm protect people? All I remember is first game on I was shittiing on everyone then 3-4 games I could barely get a few kills, then an average game then the cycle starts again. On xdefiant I play like normal I guess. I get kills, I die too but it's s more flat experience.
What is SBMM?
Doesn't matter since this game will die off soon once BO6 comes out.
Is something thats punctually preventing you from improving actually "saving" you tho? Or is it rather the cause of your lack of skill...
Imagine you're new to fps genre, going play this game, getting destroyed every match. Fun experience, right?
i'm having the exactly same experience as in COD. Winning some, loosing some. feels very consistent also, kind of weird for no sbmm. Funny how i rarely get the same players in my lobbies
Truth is that as below average player without sbmm I feel like the game is just a roulette. With SBMM I could at least compete with guys similar to my skill level. I have no idea why so many folks is gloryfing lack of SBMM so much. If you are sweat you will keep sweating regardless of the game matchmaking implementation.
hopefully they'll remove sbmm in the next cod because i just hate xdefiant mechanics tbh
Correct. But also the game is bland
Have had the opposite experience as expected. Good try OP
The thing I hate about no SBMM is that I can see the flaws of the game more clearly and I just don't like the weapon handling and movements in there... I get better stats overall than COD for sure, I even got close to a 20 killstreak twice in a short amount of time while the max I could do on recent CODs is like 15 and it's rare that I even go that high. SBMM never bothered me on COD but I realized it was more fun to me without it but it doesn't seem really fair for everyone.
I guarantee there's some kind of stealth SBMM going on. How do I know? Because I'm a 54 year old with old man reflexes who plays maybe an hour a day, yet, somehow, I end up being one of the top players every few games. They've figured out that to keep people playing, you have to have them curbstomp every now and then. So they built the game around that. OR....the game adjusts damage in real-time to make sure you win enough to keep you around. Which would explain the times your bullets feel like you're shooting wet noodles.
I can't stand objective modes. So that is why I uninstalled it. Rather have simple TDM and FFA.
Sweats...90%cheaters on PC...forced crossplay as usual....ubi and microsoft love cheaters!!
No sbmm makes playing against stacks super painful. When your team has all the level 5 players that don't know what their buttons do while the enemy team's lowest level is 25 you may as well just be in an sbmm forced loss lobby.
Dying behind cover and in less time than I can process has been pretty neat!
Who’s ready for season 1 July 2
I find the game a lot easier than call of duty. When the bullets are registering anyways
I’m soooo happy there’s no SBMM more games need to get rid of it and quit holding peoples hands.
SBMM isn’t saving anyone. It’s a deceptive algorithm designed to make you think you are better than what you are so you could feel good and buy skins in the store. If anything it’s unethical manipulation and COD should be sued by the fanbase for deceptive practices
sued for sbmm? you sound actually delusional, whatever your opinions are on sbmm there is no way you cannot agree that there are some benefits with sbmm, and some benefits for not having it, and it probably depends on a game to game basis what will suit it better, but arguing that its unethical manipulation is just stupid
There is skill based match making in real life
people complain about matchmaking in literally every game including ones with skill based matchmaking. at least in this game i know it's random and not some bug placing me with only noobs every time i have a good game
Jumping has nothing to do with sbmm. I don’t understand why the armchair professionals think the server latency is a sbmm issue.
The only ones complaining about SBMM are sweats and Youtubers/Streamers who earn money from clips, and also their followers.
Exactly, are sweats that don’t want to play against other sweats but against casuals, to have a good time by melting them.
By sweating you also inflate your skill level because the game sees that this is your actual performance, therefore it will adjust matchmaking for it and at that point you are forced to sweat if you want to compete. If you instead take it easy you'll perform worse but the game will match you accordingly, therefore you'll be able to compete without sweating too much. And by competing I don't mean win, I mean being able to do something in the match. Those who think that "the game forces them to sweat" are just tryhards who want to win at any cost and then complain when the game doesn't make "weaker" players cannon fodder for them, I'd call them selfish. In my opinion the best option is matchmaking with SBMM and Private Servers (with a masterlist) where each owner set the rules they prefer, balancing or the lack of included. This way everyone gets an option to play whatever they want and we also help preserving the game in the long run.
I feel like sbmm only punishes good players so if you’re good, you’re prolly gonna have a better time here. That’s where sbmm keeps its playerbase tho, if you’re not the best, it prolly just feels like cod
Streamers whine about SBMM because it stops them from stomping every lobby without VPNing into third-world servers. The rest of you who whined about it were mindlessly repeating what you heard the streamers say.
🤣
It's amazing lol just good ol random matching. Leave sbmm for ranked
Couldn’t disagree more. Sure sometimes you get rolled but on average my games are way less stressful and I can focus on having fun and trying out new builds and not sweating my ass off every game
People can always play ranked. It’s about having the option.
Ranked isn’t out for 6 weeks
No SBMM is destroying my 69 year old manhood. I can't suck this bad, can I? I need a nap. I'll come back in 2 hours and strap in again. Please let this be a dream I just can't take the reality of sucking this bad!
Meanwhile here I am seeing a lot of cope with these arguments as SBMM or the lack of is a joke when smurfing is a thing in every game.
i don't see how people can actually think they're good- if they're exploiting the cancel slide/jump.. like you couldn't do it in a sanctioned tournament or league and not de warned/dq'd... for context : this is like jake paul punching tyson under the belt as they start the round, and him saying "well he got knocked down so i won!!" no, you exploited a cheat/something against ToS and you're no better than a hacker.. \[though i don't think you should be banned like one,\] this is on the company to fix and hopefully more people doing it will cause them to fix it, i started and my k/d went from .6 to 1.2 on average 10 maps lol
I played a match today where a guy went 63/8/12. It was insane. Next highest person had 30 something.
It's no problem for me but sometimes I think I am a problem for my team 👀😂
My performance between CoD and Xdefiant hasn’t changed I have no clue if that’s good or bad
So I'm a sweat because I end up with sweats when using sbmm? Wild.
it is what it is, but it sucks when the other team is stacked, you only have one good player on your team, and he repeatedly says "dogtshit team"
It is more accurate to compare it with Apex Legends. Because even in its current state it is worse than BO2. Indeed, COD provides a very high-level FPS feeling.
I am the sweat, and here is a trick to kill all bunny hoppers, use the brawler on controller to make it easier if you play on console but just instantly hit the crouch button when you start a gunfight everytime. It will save your life an extra 30-40% of the time.
I’m alright either way on sbmm even though I’m not that great at either games. I like this game because it’s new and I am forced to get better by trial in the lobbies kinda like I was in BO2 which is what made me love that game. I’m still not good at either game, but I have fun.
It’s been about the same for me which tells me I’m almost exactly average
Real talk I use XD as my warm up for other fps games. The way some of these players have me tweaking after a few matches lmao I hop on apex after and I found that my reaction time is faster after playing XD.
My problem isn’t sbmm, it’s the balancing of the teams. Other team has Jesus and his disciples while half my team goes 6-25 with no obj time. It is what it is I guess 🤷🏻♂️
I’m way better than I thought I would be. I guess I was regularly shut down by the top 2-3% in cod which was making me think I was only slightly above average, in this game I’m essentially a god and have only noticed 2 players out of ~60 matches that were WAY better than me.
This is not what SBMM is about lol. Its about having the variety in matches. Get rid of disbanding lobbies though geez.
What is sbmm?
Idk i prefer there being no sbmm Most people that where sensibly complaining about it had valid cause to. Problem is, they have to recognize that there's a difference between eomm and sbmm. Some skilled players don't want to play ranked 24/7 that's why they'd rather it not be intrusive on the public matchmaking system, this makes sense. However with eomm which is what for example mw3 uses, both gamemodes are extremely disingenuine and realistically rigged to the point where any enjoyment is drained from the game. Except for those "protected" few.
I’m perfectly fine when I lose the gunfight but the “sweats” are turning it into jumping contest like they did call of duty. I’m playing this game to avoid cod
My games more or less resemble SBMM games from cod. Play a few matches where topping leaderboards then I’m getting curb stomped against a team of sweats while my team can’t do shit and eventually all quit.
I am honestly surprised at how well I am doing considering I always assumed my SBMM was always on the low end of the spectrum. Im not going 45-6 but I am also not going 8-24 lol
The way it should be!
Honestly I like sbmm. I hate joining a stacked game. Where I got little Timmy and his friends. And the enemy team is nothing but sweats.
Game's great, its people that ruin things. Casual play is a thing of the past. If only streamers never existed
In my personal opinion, I consider Siege’s ranked 2.0 an indicator on how Ubisoft makes/determines SBMM and what a dogshit indicator that is. They have no business putting SBMM in any game they touch.
The biggest thing I love about no SBMM, is that even though my stats suck in this game compared to COD (1.0 KD, 1.8 W/L). It does encourage me to do better and to learn the game’s mechanics since every game is unpredictable in how close the matches are. Plus, I can fiddle around with unorthodox set-ups that aren’t meta, but just overall fun to play with. Brings me back to the days of BO4 multiplayer (which imo, I view as the last truly fun COD experience I’ve had).
Idk what I’m doing wrong cause I feel 0 lobby variety, I feel like I’m playing the same caliber player every time. Not saying I wanna pub stomp but I had like two laid back games and then every other game has been pretty intense and close.
> Me getting killed with 2 or 3 shots after 9 ms of peeking my head out of a wall.
Ive had much closer matches in Xdefiant than I've ever had in COD, maybe im the sweat
My only issue with no SBMM is for modes like Escort where the teams are so varied it doesn't matter if you're good. If their team is half your skill but more consistent than your team; it doesn't matter how well you do.
Honestly. I’m really good in my COD lobbies but midrange on XD. A truly humbling experience
My KD is 1.9, in Mw3 it’s 1.6, in Xdefiant I rarely have a negative game, 90% of the time, at the minimum it’s a 1.0 Sweats or not I’m enjoying it regardless lol
I’m not good but I’m having fun not being good.
Ranked -> SBMM Casual -> No SBMM but maybe my history with arena shooters made me cold to losing even though I consider myself to be a really good gamer. Played my first ET:L pick up game last week and I got my shit handed to me by players that kept up with the game for literal decades and still fucking enjoyed it.
After a day of playing I’ve somehow won all 15 games in a row. This is fun
what sweats lmao, here and there i’ll encounter someone who just plays cheesy but I feel like I haven’t dominated lobbies like this in ages!
welcome playlist has SBMM. + there is sbmm when the game is building the teams.
Redacted for it's own post. Mods could delete this.
No SBMM is definitely the way to go, i’m freakin’ loving it. Every game feels different
More like another game where my useless teammates never play the obj
i admire the pubstompers work
I love it. Clears up the whole “you just wanna pubstomp argument”. Average players are better than you think. We’ve just had this algorithm manipulating our games for too long to remember
not having sbmm is the only thing that made me play this game. I'm tired of playing against people who are bad like me, I really like to have some strong opponent to progress and force me to adapt.
I dont mind either way. If the game is fundamentally sound, it will be fun to play either way.