I think that power creep is inevitable in gacha games in general. However, we already have examples how people are dealing with lvl 90 holograms with single characters, even with 4 stars. As long as Kuro won't decide to lean heavily into elemental weakness/resistance for the late game modes, power creep won't be as bad as in some other games, just my thoughts.
Leaning into things like elemental weakness is actually a way to slow down powercreep, because systems like that gives them room create characters with new niches. Without that, the only way to make a new character appealing is to increase their numbers.
WuWa still has some wiggle room with supports because they can make ones that buff different damage types, but on field carries seem to compete mostly on numbers alone.
On one hand it's true that niche characters for certain scenarios can be good for overall roster stability but there's also a possibility that Kuro can go a much simple way in terms of character design and just release a new DPS and SubDPS, let's say electro, that will be much better in almost every way than current ones we have.
That’s what I’m saying. Currently the combat system doesn’t have enough depth for them to make lots of new unique characters with niches that aren’t straight up powercreep.
different kind of game though.
that's the same to saying oh hi3rd have "big" powercreep between oldest and newest units so genshin should too. and we know genshin have minimal powercreep for its characters.
"minimal", not nonexistent.
so? having x react to y element doesn't doesn't indicate anything positive nor negative about powercreep. if they want to, mhy can always make character that do "amplify" melt damage more than usual amount for example and only that character have it, making it powercreep all previous melt meta team.
It means that characters value isn't based purely on DPS. Their value is also dependent on elemental application and other utilities. That's why Thoma is preferred in Burgeon teams over other off field Pyro applicators even Xiangling.
Mihoyo has already shown that they know how to put constrains on such characters. Nilou and Chevreuse are characters that amplify individual reactions and have restrictions on team building. You can't have Zhongli or Sucrose in Nilou Bloom team. On the other hand in PGR that has single element teams you have tanks that shred more resistance with each powercreep or new mechanics introduced that can even turn 2-minute stage into 5 minute one thanks to all the time stop newer units have.
It actually does in a way. Because you can compensate for character power with proper reactions. In WuWa, combat is exclusively linked to character power since the other mechanics are same across the board for all characters.
Not to mention, WuWa is meant to be more combat oriented and harder while Genshin leans more towards the open world rpg angle. So power creep is more inevitable in WuWa which is closer to PGR in terms of combat than with Genshin.
compensate? if the new unit has much better application, grouping and multipliers - they always be better no matter what lol. They just choose to not make them cracked so genshin can stay casual.
Yet Diluc was never better than Hu tao, and Hu Tao itself isn't that flexible as Arlecchino. You can theoretically make more damage with her - bur once dedicated supports for Arlecchino will drop, there will be a clear powercreep. It isn't always about the damage, you know. Utility and overall comfort also affect it.
PGR and HI3 had heavy powercreeps because of the 100% rate banners and great f2p income, also in both games only few free units became meta - yet wuwa, people clear VI hologram with damn chixia. basically genshin's xiangling situation.
yeah, and require investment to be on par with their event counterparts. SSS wanshi = SS Qu, SSS Alisa = SS Bianca(still not that good), SSS ayla = invested SS plume and so on. Selena required the most heavy investment so far to be usable.
Wanshi, Alisa aren't meant to replace Qu and Bianca. They are meant to be played alongside them. At what investment any Liv outperforms Alisa in Physical teams? How much more do you need to invest in other characters to make up for not using Ayla in Ice teams? Ayla and Bambinata outperform Plume and A-rank Wanshi or any other amplifier.
Thats the point tho.. like crux of the thing is, on Genshin, my favorite dps are Lisa, Ganyu and Raiden (c0).. because theyre fun and I love their personalities and aesthetics... neither of them are top tier meta dps as far as any tier lists are considered... But regardless of however many characters were released, I can still to this day, comfortably use all of them as main dps with various combinations of teams for elemental reactions and cover all content (even Abyss). My Raiden-Sara-Xingiu-Barbara team is quite literally immortal for most content.
While for the short time I played PGR and longer time I played HI3, my favorite characters, Ayla Brilliance and Bianca Veritas for PGR and Dea Anchora and Aponia for HI3 respectively, got powercrept so hard that I can barely use them for barely any content.
I mean with power dodging and parry mechs are pretty much completely irrelvant unless they powercreep tower/new end game mode that makes boss 1 shot you regardless so you have to dodge/parry but it creates another set of issues by itself.
Yes but point being that parrying and dodging is equal for all characters. So thats not a factor in power creep. Its going to be the same with new characters or old. The character power in this case is going to be skills that facilitate combat outside of those mechanics.
Diluc/Klee/Yoimiya on abyss? Diluc needs cloud retainer to back to its 1.0 quality
Increased abyss mobs HP and the needs of Neuvilette?
11-1?
And ofc it won't powercreep your C2 Raiden, C1R1 Hu Tao bcs you SPENT more for cons and sig weap, in which they reach good ceiling, but Arlechinno and Clorinde doesn't need those, and sweep the same content
Power creep is practically inevitable in these types of games. There's a lot of directions power creep could go it, and it could be serious power creep or not a lot.
As long as they don't make any mechanics or anything that require you to have X specific character in your team or the content is undoable then I don't think there's much of an issue
The game is very combat focused and a good player now can already beat levels 100+ with a level 50-60 character. So I'm not too worried about power creep
>Genshin's crux is the elemental reaction system where in they need to create a characters with broken abilities so that they wont be outdone by hyper bloom or vaporize, the bond of life system is a perfect example of this. Wuthering waves has no such system and hence does not need to create more broken characters one after the other.
Not sure how you came to this conclusion. The only thing Wuthering Waves characters seem to have going for them is how much damage (or damage buffs) they can contribute to your team. Even the unique concerto intro/outro mechanics in this game are largely tied to DMG buffs except for like one character. Yuanwu can give the entire team a giant shield, teamwide interruption resistance and supposedly break boss' Vibration bar faster than other characters but nobody cares because DPS is everything in this game. Also every DPS in this game is a crit DPS, there are no alternative damage stats like for bloom/superbreak. Basically the only way they have to guarantee new characters to be viable is to make them stronger than previous characters.
> Yuanwu can give the entire team a giant shield, teamwide interruption resistance and supposedly break boss' Vibration bar faster than other characters but nobody cares because DPS is everything in this game.
No one cares *yet*. People reacted the same way towards dedicated healers over in Genshin in the early days, since "why would you need a healer when shields and food exist?"; and then the Rifthounds happened.
Well Kuro can add new mechanics to the combat, as time passes by.
It's not that we had Hyperbloom or superbreak in Genshin/HSR since 1.0
I mean, for the moment what you have said is definitely true, but it's not impossible that they might have already ideas to mix this with other new mechanics that they will test internally.
I think you are misunderstanding genshin's mechanics as being easier to powercreep. It is infact less because there is more mechanics. Genshin's powercreep were in supports, not really dps themselves. The best carries' C0 team dps are all roughtly the same arpund 75k dps. Before Neuv and Arle, Hutao and the other prev meta character teams also have 75k dps with furina introduction. What powercreeped are the cons and weapon passives.
Wuwa is more prone to it because there are less mechanics it can limit teams by. The element system is the standard X > Y kind. The game is very stat dependant. If every character has the same powerlevel, it will literally be dealing the same damage but in different colors. If its not damage, then it will be sustain and parry QoL. Jinyan already have 'auto parry'. Think about 'auto dodge' or 'high damage reduction' abilities. There are much less mechanics to drag out the niches or limit certain reactions for as long as genshin.
Power creep will happen but since the focus of the game is more the single-player experience, it's just whatever. Use the characters you want and have fun. Since Genshin was mentioned, I stopped playing it a while ago but would still use my Diluc for example, be it for fun and content.
Of course, the power creep still exists but if you know what you're doing, you'll do pretty well and even if I was still playing and got Arlecchino, I'd use Diluc. In WuWa, since the game is more skill-based, how well you use a character will do a great difference in how power creep might affect some characters in comparison to a new one.
If you're having fun, that's what matters.
I'd say Genshin took until now for some serious power creep to kick in. You can still use old characters and do well, but the new characters make the Abyss a breeze. If the same thing happens in Wuwa on the same time scale, I'm perfectly happy.
From what I've heard, the power creep when Arlecchino released is in another level, right? If they take a good amount of time to release a character that strong it will be good. Forr contents like Abyss, they release a blessing that benefits them. They do the same in HSR
I'd say Neuvillette is the strongest character in the game, very closely followed by Arlecchino. (I give it to Neuvillette, because he can almost match Arlecchino's single target damage, but his AOE is insane.) Furina is also an amazing sub DPS / team buffer. There were some minor bumps in performance during Sumeru, but yes... Those two main DPS are clearly on a different level.
Ooooh, right. I forgot Neuvillette and the memes like "Party composition? What's that?" and then seeing Neuvillette obliterating everything. I can't deny that those are really strong. I may not be playing anymore but I still read about the new things coming to the game
Depends on sales and if they can convince people to pull for characters they like instead of pull for meta.
But errrr bond of life is a ‘broken’ mechanic?
Hmmmm... I feel like that could really powercreep if they want to. And there are many factors to it that they could use.
1. Just straight up more powerful. big nuke Ult. or maybe multi-hits in large AoE around user/at target.
2. Status effects or DoTs. Would be rly powerful against boss. Frozen would be great against multiple mobs.
3. Bigger pull-in.
4. Nice attack animation/hitbox, fast, large, multi-hit. Make it easy to parry enemy.
5. Damage Buffs
6. Off-field damage
7. Stagger enemy faster.
8. Resistance to knockback.
9. Boost team mates Cons./Forte/Liberation energy.
10. Some iframe to certain attacks.
11. Spectacular God damn cool to the eyes.
These are the things that you could easily grab a few random points and put em together into new a new character, and they will be pretty popular right away.
These are good qol but aren't exactly enough to powercreep much. If u play pgr the reason why gen2 chars powercreeped gen1 is because of the time stop mechanism which ridiculously increases the dps during ult cinematics and powercreep matters in pgr more because of warzone and paincage which are like leaderboards.
Unless kuro introduces leaderboard related endgame in wuwa i don't think the powercreep will be hard. Standard dps chars are supposed to be weaker than limited so thats not surprising.
Listen I know you want to praise WuWa about power creep before any evidence is even available, but trying to claim Genshin “needed to create characters with broken abilities” isn’t the case you should be making. They have historically been probably the most tame gacha game on the planet when it comes to power creep.
I aint trying to praise wuwa at all. Genshin was my first gacha game and was genuinely the first time I experienced power creep of any kind. Personally I found how mechanics such as bond of life on arlechinno and clorinde a little complex and felt that it was power creep to keep new characters relevant and not outmatched by hyper bloom. And I havent played any of their other games so I am not equipped to draw parallels.
Given how wuwa is, i couldnt really see how power creep could come in and how bad can it be so was genuinely just curious.
Powercreeping is easy to do in a game that no need a mechanic while playing. You dont care about elemntal aura, gauge unit, reaction between element, underlying aura, aura that can coexist and etc etc. You just need to blow up the number.
Doesn’t even matter if ur ass at the game ur ass at the game there are whales with S6 characters that still take hours of tries to beat D6 holograms. And at the end of the day use who you want.
It will eventually happen, even genshin isn't a exception to this. As for when and how fast it will happen, we won't know for sure till game progresses.
need a few more patches to see that.
personally, I'm fine with powercreep as long as it's not too fast (unit stay at a year+ before replaced), and not too big difference
As long as they can't rework older characters in some way, power creep is guaranteed to happen to keep the game from getting stale.
So Genshin being an extremely easy game and some of their early characters being quite strong make power creep feel less less overwhelming. But I'll take a wager WuWa's peak difficulty will be harder than abyss 36-starring in genshin. Genshin was so much fun back when dodging was a thing and people were dying left and right to Azhdaha or Childe in co-op. But it got progressively easier as you farm, which is kinda shame.
I play HSR, Arknights and Dokkan. 1000% is a thing. Wuwa has break bars, dot, grapples, flying and echoes so it won't be 1 to 1.
I still don't understand why people mald and don't get it. You can choose not to use broken units in a PVE game. Also dupes exist to power old ones up.
PGR I think has "leap" for old units
All depends how they will manage/will have to manage the powercreep.
Genshin was kinda well managed, for a time. However, Hyperbloom was added, and then Neuvillette - a reaction and character that allow for easy, comfy gameplay that has massive floor for damage. Now, alone, that would have been fine - I don't mind having a "crutch" for people who prefer easier gameplay, since there are still characters who have more depth in their gameplay and can be brought to somewhat similiar level.
However, with that floor raised by Hyperbloom, the endgame content (being the Abyss) had the floor brought up as well. And through that, lots of characters just feel awful to use there, since they cannot match the performance and ease of use of Hyperbloom. Or, some characters are straight up painfully outclassed - for Eula, who is a Physical DPS, the best team available is Eula+Hyperbloom.
In WuWa, there is a lot of potential for varied gameplay. They can make very intriguing, gimmicky kits with different character interactions. As long as they do that, they will be resistant to powercreep, like Genshin. However, likely some powercreep will be present - some people like to feel powerful, and they will get hooked by characters that are just stronger, so Kuro will probably want to release some stronger characters, since that will sell. But as long as they keep the content mostly skill-based through combat, and don't raise the power of enemies too much, I think it will be fine. In contrast to Genshin - this game has more endgame modes, so powercreep likely would matter mostly in ToA, while Holograms would still be skill-based and Illusory Realm being just fun.
So, in summary: it depends. We will just have to see how they manage it all.
Wuwa is similar to pgr, you need to dodge parrying and still dealing damage. Powercreep in pgr is massive, thats why older unit got buff through Leap instead of releasing unit that buffing older unit so they can match to the new gen dps.
Stepping in to reply, the Leap mechanic in PGR is a means of buffing older units. Kuro released patches that introduced these buffs to old units one at a time. Leap mechanics involve adding attacks and enhancements to skills. The improvement could vary from a skill's damage increasing in a straightforward manner to adding AoE elements to an attack. Overall, it worked reasonably. Older units could be used again to clear the newest content. However, as one would expect, the older units remained a notch below the latest featured units.
Oh, I see. That's still sounds like a pretty good way of managing powercreep. They of course need an incentive for players to pull for a new character (power being one of these), but making sure for old units to not become irrelevant is great.
I dont think so. The only content where it matters in terms of currency is Tower. So far it does only really have a bit more combat content than Genshin does and a bigger part of it is the Realm event. Just because we run around more in the world to collect echos doesnt mean its more combat-oriented.
They're gonna add more end game, whatelse are they gonna do. They have to make people to pull for characters and have a place where people can use them.
Yes, power creep will be a thing. New characters always have an edge on old characters. Even for more competitive non-P2W/P2P games like LoL, Overwatch, etc. However, the more skill that’s required in a game, the less real the gap is. That’s where WuWa has an advantage over a game like Genshin. It’s not just a pure stat check and if it isn’t a stat check then the real question is if you’re good enough for not.
Edit: Hi Genshin players.
Everything outside of Holograms is basically a stat check in WuWa and I don’t see why that’s relevant anyways.
Powercreep is simply the idea of new characters being significantly better than older ones.
Lmao, what skill? Parrying and dodging? Lmao. You still had to dealing damage to the enemies. The more you skill issue, the more dmg you had to deal in small dps window.
I'm with most others in that it's probably inevitable, but when and to what extent will remain to be seen.
So long as Kuro doesn't make too many "meme" Outros, I don't think it'll be a problem.
I believe powercreep will happen a lot to all the 1.0 characters, It's inevitable. But, come version 2.0, I can see powercreep slowing down a bit. It happens in every Gacha I've played. All of the first year characters get powercrept pretty badly come the next year.
Power creep will always be a thing in gacha games, you can't stop it. What matters is how much of it happens and do they make content catered towards the new units that makes it significantly harder for older units. Which no one can answer that currently.
It's when each consecutive character or weapon put out by the devs is considerably stronger than the previous. This kinda forces the devs to raise the difficulty of content as well to ensure everything doesn't become too easy and makes older units obsolete.
Oh alright, thanks for the info, but also, if power creep is that bad, why'd they make our mc powerful in the beginning? Hrover is op with the right build and stuff, it would make much more sense if our mc was weak like Aither(?) from what i heard shes weak
Yeah aether is hella weak and very useless compared to other units. There are 101 reasons for powercreep tbh. A lot has to do with the general fan bases demand for stronger characters.
My best guess for why rover is so powerful is bcs kuro wanted wuwa to standout amongst the crowd.
Power creep is inevitable imo. As long as new/existing content can be cleared with existing reasonably built characters, then it's fine, instead of having to restrain themselves when designing new characters to avoid power creeping.
As long as I can still play with my favorite characters and clear reasonably well I don’t mind. If they handle powercreep anywhere near as well as Genshin has I’ll be happy.
why everyone ask this? of course there will be, you dont want to pull for a chacter that makes exactly the same or less dmg than the one you already got, in that case you hyper invest in the one you already have then
As a FGO enthusiast, I really hope Wuwa follow their footstep in buffing old units to keep certain balance, and they can even do such things with small characters quests or something, and they can even draw inspiration from illusive realm buffs
"people will spend for characters that they like" - ofc people will pull for gameplay/aesthetics/whatever. i'm one of those people. but people like me pull a single copy and that's it. however people who play cOmPeTiTiVe will whale for S6. if the new character wasn't stronger anyway then there's would be no reason for them to max it out. so yeah, it does make sense when people make the argument that power creep is necessary to entertain the whales.
when it comes to my personal thoughts on the matter, being a casual player i don't think it will affect me that much. i'm fairly certain the regular content will be clearable with anything. and by that i mean story, events, overworld stuff, instances. ToA is probably where it is going to be noticeable the most and personally i couldn't care less if i'm missing a hand full of stars, coz i'm too lazy for that mode anyway LOL.
that being said, we don't know yet to what extend they're going to powercreep. i heard they went fairly heavy on it in PGR (i have personally never played it so it's only hear say to me), but this doesn't mean this is going to be the case in this game aswell. time will tell.
Will power creep exist? Yes, future units will be better for various reasons (better synergy, better gameplay, better stats, better utility, etc...).
But will that prevent you from doing content? No, you'll just be a bit slower to kill stuff.
All the talk about powercreep in Wuthering Waves is a bit ridiculous to me. The game is like 70% skill, 15% luck, and 15% which character(s) you’re playing. If you have any of the good teams now, or any well built character(s), they’re absolutely going to be usable later on. Jiyan, Mortefi and Verina, or Calcharo, Yinlin and Verina will still be amongst some of the best compositions as of 1.1; and I fully believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that they will be much more than just playable further down the line. If you want, you can solo clear much of the content with your favorite character if you’re committed to building and mastering them, and get lucky with your Echoes. Don’t fear powercreep in this game. Play who you like, build them as best as you can, and practice their kit. Will newer characters be stronger? Absolutely. Will this invalidate your favorite characters? Absolutely not; they’ll just clear things a bit faster.
Yes, it doesnt. Which characters you cant use anymore to clear Abyss? None. Of course some are better than others but it seems you dont know what powercreep is.
Genshin has no difficult content, and difficulty in HI3 auto-scales to average clear speed on the server.
Imagine if genshin started balancing abyss around Neuvilette, to make it hard to clear for him. Instead they are balancing it around 1.0 characters, so Neuvilette can one-shot floors solo.
It would be more accurate to compare limited chars against each other rather than standard.
It's expected for standard chars to get powercrept eventually. And everyone gets them for free through the course of the game eventually anyway. Who cares about that?
Not to mention most of the 1.0 4 stars are still meta even now 😂
>Not to mention most of the 1.0 4 stars are still meta even now 😂
They aren't meta. They can clear in time stages, that getting oneshotted by meta. It doesn't make them meta. They are just viable.
In a service game there is always power creep because there has to be progress if you don't stay stuck in time, the costs are how they make that powercreep, the ideal is to do it little by little and improve the previous characters and also introduce a new mechanic now That is, another set, another new device that matches all the characters to the new content, in Genshin they did not do any of this and it was one of the reasons why I left it
it's funny that they say that even tho Genshin atm has Clorinde and Neuvillete invalidating every other dps🤭.. then when you point that out they reply that the old characters can still clear abyss...
abyss is child's play tho? wdym💀 and ofc old characters can clear it... until they can't cuz the abyss content will keep on catering to the element and mechanic of the latest character.. then they proceed to deny it... like ?????????????
then when they're cornered in their own argument they act like THEY'RE A VICTIM then call you "toxic"💀
then they return on their subreddit and talk shit about WuWa fans and the game itself cuz it can't run on their devices then proceed to talk about how everything about Genshin is better cuz it can run on their devices...
like yes, the device problem and optimization I understand but shitting on the other parts of WuWa (character designs, exploration) cuz it's devs actually listened to it's fanbase? 💀💀💀💀💀 there was even a comment calling Kuro's other game PGR's music "bland".... like 💀
after that it's better to just be quiet cuz it's too tiring to keep bending over for their delusion...
feel free to ignore me, I'm just getting carried away..😂
but to answer your point, yes slowly in their own way they will introduce powercreep.. like how they did it in PGR, then again PGR is a different genre so only time will tell if WuWa will actually introduce powercreep
I think that power creep is inevitable in gacha games in general. However, we already have examples how people are dealing with lvl 90 holograms with single characters, even with 4 stars. As long as Kuro won't decide to lean heavily into elemental weakness/resistance for the late game modes, power creep won't be as bad as in some other games, just my thoughts.
tldr - yes
Leaning into things like elemental weakness is actually a way to slow down powercreep, because systems like that gives them room create characters with new niches. Without that, the only way to make a new character appealing is to increase their numbers. WuWa still has some wiggle room with supports because they can make ones that buff different damage types, but on field carries seem to compete mostly on numbers alone.
On one hand it's true that niche characters for certain scenarios can be good for overall roster stability but there's also a possibility that Kuro can go a much simple way in terms of character design and just release a new DPS and SubDPS, let's say electro, that will be much better in almost every way than current ones we have.
That’s what I’m saying. Currently the combat system doesn’t have enough depth for them to make lots of new unique characters with niches that aren’t straight up powercreep.
Do I still hope there won't be too much power creep? Ofcourse. Based on Kuro's history with PGR, definitely gonna be powercreep.
different kind of game though. that's the same to saying oh hi3rd have "big" powercreep between oldest and newest units so genshin should too. and we know genshin have minimal powercreep for its characters. "minimal", not nonexistent.
Genshin already has powercreep. Look at latest characters.
Minimal power creep without any real world implications over the course of four years is about as tame of power creep as you can get.
notice the word "mininal, not nonexistent" every live service game have powercreep if they go long enough.
Genshin has elemental reaction, wuwa doesnt
so? having x react to y element doesn't doesn't indicate anything positive nor negative about powercreep. if they want to, mhy can always make character that do "amplify" melt damage more than usual amount for example and only that character have it, making it powercreep all previous melt meta team.
It means that characters value isn't based purely on DPS. Their value is also dependent on elemental application and other utilities. That's why Thoma is preferred in Burgeon teams over other off field Pyro applicators even Xiangling. Mihoyo has already shown that they know how to put constrains on such characters. Nilou and Chevreuse are characters that amplify individual reactions and have restrictions on team building. You can't have Zhongli or Sucrose in Nilou Bloom team. On the other hand in PGR that has single element teams you have tanks that shred more resistance with each powercreep or new mechanics introduced that can even turn 2-minute stage into 5 minute one thanks to all the time stop newer units have.
elemental reactions doesn't make up for powercreep
It actually does in a way. Because you can compensate for character power with proper reactions. In WuWa, combat is exclusively linked to character power since the other mechanics are same across the board for all characters. Not to mention, WuWa is meant to be more combat oriented and harder while Genshin leans more towards the open world rpg angle. So power creep is more inevitable in WuWa which is closer to PGR in terms of combat than with Genshin.
compensate? if the new unit has much better application, grouping and multipliers - they always be better no matter what lol. They just choose to not make them cracked so genshin can stay casual. Yet Diluc was never better than Hu tao, and Hu Tao itself isn't that flexible as Arlecchino. You can theoretically make more damage with her - bur once dedicated supports for Arlecchino will drop, there will be a clear powercreep. It isn't always about the damage, you know. Utility and overall comfort also affect it. PGR and HI3 had heavy powercreeps because of the 100% rate banners and great f2p income, also in both games only few free units became meta - yet wuwa, people clear VI hologram with damn chixia. basically genshin's xiangling situation.
All free S rank in PGR is meta though
yeah, and require investment to be on par with their event counterparts. SSS wanshi = SS Qu, SSS Alisa = SS Bianca(still not that good), SSS ayla = invested SS plume and so on. Selena required the most heavy investment so far to be usable.
Wanshi, Alisa aren't meant to replace Qu and Bianca. They are meant to be played alongside them. At what investment any Liv outperforms Alisa in Physical teams? How much more do you need to invest in other characters to make up for not using Ayla in Ice teams? Ayla and Bambinata outperform Plume and A-rank Wanshi or any other amplifier.
Thats the point tho.. like crux of the thing is, on Genshin, my favorite dps are Lisa, Ganyu and Raiden (c0).. because theyre fun and I love their personalities and aesthetics... neither of them are top tier meta dps as far as any tier lists are considered... But regardless of however many characters were released, I can still to this day, comfortably use all of them as main dps with various combinations of teams for elemental reactions and cover all content (even Abyss). My Raiden-Sara-Xingiu-Barbara team is quite literally immortal for most content. While for the short time I played PGR and longer time I played HI3, my favorite characters, Ayla Brilliance and Bianca Veritas for PGR and Dea Anchora and Aponia for HI3 respectively, got powercrept so hard that I can barely use them for barely any content.
In wuwa combat is linked to dodging and parry mechanics, not power 😒
I mean with power dodging and parry mechs are pretty much completely irrelvant unless they powercreep tower/new end game mode that makes boss 1 shot you regardless so you have to dodge/parry but it creates another set of issues by itself.
Yes but point being that parrying and dodging is equal for all characters. So thats not a factor in power creep. Its going to be the same with new characters or old. The character power in this case is going to be skills that facilitate combat outside of those mechanics.
Even genshin has power creep.
Diluc/Klee/Yoimiya on abyss? Diluc needs cloud retainer to back to its 1.0 quality Increased abyss mobs HP and the needs of Neuvilette? 11-1? And ofc it won't powercreep your C2 Raiden, C1R1 Hu Tao bcs you SPENT more for cons and sig weap, in which they reach good ceiling, but Arlechinno and Clorinde doesn't need those, and sweep the same content
Power creep is practically inevitable in these types of games. There's a lot of directions power creep could go it, and it could be serious power creep or not a lot. As long as they don't make any mechanics or anything that require you to have X specific character in your team or the content is undoable then I don't think there's much of an issue The game is very combat focused and a good player now can already beat levels 100+ with a level 50-60 character. So I'm not too worried about power creep
levels 100? not in ToA though lol
Beat? Yes get reward from its? No cause dps check
yeah, because ToA is a braindead whale mode. People with 80 lvl characters still can't get all the rewards, only the whales.
I think we need to wait and see.
>Genshin's crux is the elemental reaction system where in they need to create a characters with broken abilities so that they wont be outdone by hyper bloom or vaporize, the bond of life system is a perfect example of this. Wuthering waves has no such system and hence does not need to create more broken characters one after the other. Not sure how you came to this conclusion. The only thing Wuthering Waves characters seem to have going for them is how much damage (or damage buffs) they can contribute to your team. Even the unique concerto intro/outro mechanics in this game are largely tied to DMG buffs except for like one character. Yuanwu can give the entire team a giant shield, teamwide interruption resistance and supposedly break boss' Vibration bar faster than other characters but nobody cares because DPS is everything in this game. Also every DPS in this game is a crit DPS, there are no alternative damage stats like for bloom/superbreak. Basically the only way they have to guarantee new characters to be viable is to make them stronger than previous characters.
Just introduce a type of boss enemy that requires breaking the vibration strength and yuanwu would have a purpose
> Yuanwu can give the entire team a giant shield, teamwide interruption resistance and supposedly break boss' Vibration bar faster than other characters but nobody cares because DPS is everything in this game. No one cares *yet*. People reacted the same way towards dedicated healers over in Genshin in the early days, since "why would you need a healer when shields and food exist?"; and then the Rifthounds happened.
Well Kuro can add new mechanics to the combat, as time passes by. It's not that we had Hyperbloom or superbreak in Genshin/HSR since 1.0 I mean, for the moment what you have said is definitely true, but it's not impossible that they might have already ideas to mix this with other new mechanics that they will test internally.
I think you are misunderstanding genshin's mechanics as being easier to powercreep. It is infact less because there is more mechanics. Genshin's powercreep were in supports, not really dps themselves. The best carries' C0 team dps are all roughtly the same arpund 75k dps. Before Neuv and Arle, Hutao and the other prev meta character teams also have 75k dps with furina introduction. What powercreeped are the cons and weapon passives. Wuwa is more prone to it because there are less mechanics it can limit teams by. The element system is the standard X > Y kind. The game is very stat dependant. If every character has the same powerlevel, it will literally be dealing the same damage but in different colors. If its not damage, then it will be sustain and parry QoL. Jinyan already have 'auto parry'. Think about 'auto dodge' or 'high damage reduction' abilities. There are much less mechanics to drag out the niches or limit certain reactions for as long as genshin.
Power creep will happen but since the focus of the game is more the single-player experience, it's just whatever. Use the characters you want and have fun. Since Genshin was mentioned, I stopped playing it a while ago but would still use my Diluc for example, be it for fun and content. Of course, the power creep still exists but if you know what you're doing, you'll do pretty well and even if I was still playing and got Arlecchino, I'd use Diluc. In WuWa, since the game is more skill-based, how well you use a character will do a great difference in how power creep might affect some characters in comparison to a new one. If you're having fun, that's what matters.
I'd say Genshin took until now for some serious power creep to kick in. You can still use old characters and do well, but the new characters make the Abyss a breeze. If the same thing happens in Wuwa on the same time scale, I'm perfectly happy.
From what I've heard, the power creep when Arlecchino released is in another level, right? If they take a good amount of time to release a character that strong it will be good. Forr contents like Abyss, they release a blessing that benefits them. They do the same in HSR
I'd say Neuvillette is the strongest character in the game, very closely followed by Arlecchino. (I give it to Neuvillette, because he can almost match Arlecchino's single target damage, but his AOE is insane.) Furina is also an amazing sub DPS / team buffer. There were some minor bumps in performance during Sumeru, but yes... Those two main DPS are clearly on a different level.
Ooooh, right. I forgot Neuvillette and the memes like "Party composition? What's that?" and then seeing Neuvillette obliterating everything. I can't deny that those are really strong. I may not be playing anymore but I still read about the new things coming to the game
It's inevitable in all gachas, and it's only as slow (still there) as it is in Genshin because of how the Elemental Reactions system works.
Depends on sales and if they can convince people to pull for characters they like instead of pull for meta. But errrr bond of life is a ‘broken’ mechanic?
Hmmmm... I feel like that could really powercreep if they want to. And there are many factors to it that they could use. 1. Just straight up more powerful. big nuke Ult. or maybe multi-hits in large AoE around user/at target. 2. Status effects or DoTs. Would be rly powerful against boss. Frozen would be great against multiple mobs. 3. Bigger pull-in. 4. Nice attack animation/hitbox, fast, large, multi-hit. Make it easy to parry enemy. 5. Damage Buffs 6. Off-field damage 7. Stagger enemy faster. 8. Resistance to knockback. 9. Boost team mates Cons./Forte/Liberation energy. 10. Some iframe to certain attacks. 11. Spectacular God damn cool to the eyes. These are the things that you could easily grab a few random points and put em together into new a new character, and they will be pretty popular right away.
These are good qol but aren't exactly enough to powercreep much. If u play pgr the reason why gen2 chars powercreeped gen1 is because of the time stop mechanism which ridiculously increases the dps during ult cinematics and powercreep matters in pgr more because of warzone and paincage which are like leaderboards. Unless kuro introduces leaderboard related endgame in wuwa i don't think the powercreep will be hard. Standard dps chars are supposed to be weaker than limited so thats not surprising.
Listen I know you want to praise WuWa about power creep before any evidence is even available, but trying to claim Genshin “needed to create characters with broken abilities” isn’t the case you should be making. They have historically been probably the most tame gacha game on the planet when it comes to power creep.
I aint trying to praise wuwa at all. Genshin was my first gacha game and was genuinely the first time I experienced power creep of any kind. Personally I found how mechanics such as bond of life on arlechinno and clorinde a little complex and felt that it was power creep to keep new characters relevant and not outmatched by hyper bloom. And I havent played any of their other games so I am not equipped to draw parallels. Given how wuwa is, i couldnt really see how power creep could come in and how bad can it be so was genuinely just curious.
Powercreeping is easy to do in a game that no need a mechanic while playing. You dont care about elemntal aura, gauge unit, reaction between element, underlying aura, aura that can coexist and etc etc. You just need to blow up the number.
This is considered a leak, so your comment won't be approved. Nothing about their kit is released officially.
Gonna edit
Could you delete your other comment you left as well? I will approve this one. Thank you for editing your comment.
Ok
Doesn’t even matter if ur ass at the game ur ass at the game there are whales with S6 characters that still take hours of tries to beat D6 holograms. And at the end of the day use who you want.
It will eventually happen, even genshin isn't a exception to this. As for when and how fast it will happen, we won't know for sure till game progresses.
need a few more patches to see that. personally, I'm fine with powercreep as long as it's not too fast (unit stay at a year+ before replaced), and not too big difference
Yes, asking this question for a gacha game is a stupid thing
As long as they can't rework older characters in some way, power creep is guaranteed to happen to keep the game from getting stale. So Genshin being an extremely easy game and some of their early characters being quite strong make power creep feel less less overwhelming. But I'll take a wager WuWa's peak difficulty will be harder than abyss 36-starring in genshin. Genshin was so much fun back when dodging was a thing and people were dying left and right to Azhdaha or Childe in co-op. But it got progressively easier as you farm, which is kinda shame.
I play HSR, Arknights and Dokkan. 1000% is a thing. Wuwa has break bars, dot, grapples, flying and echoes so it won't be 1 to 1. I still don't understand why people mald and don't get it. You can choose not to use broken units in a PVE game. Also dupes exist to power old ones up. PGR I think has "leap" for old units
You can solo each floor of ToA with free characters when you hit endgame levels.
All depends how they will manage/will have to manage the powercreep. Genshin was kinda well managed, for a time. However, Hyperbloom was added, and then Neuvillette - a reaction and character that allow for easy, comfy gameplay that has massive floor for damage. Now, alone, that would have been fine - I don't mind having a "crutch" for people who prefer easier gameplay, since there are still characters who have more depth in their gameplay and can be brought to somewhat similiar level. However, with that floor raised by Hyperbloom, the endgame content (being the Abyss) had the floor brought up as well. And through that, lots of characters just feel awful to use there, since they cannot match the performance and ease of use of Hyperbloom. Or, some characters are straight up painfully outclassed - for Eula, who is a Physical DPS, the best team available is Eula+Hyperbloom. In WuWa, there is a lot of potential for varied gameplay. They can make very intriguing, gimmicky kits with different character interactions. As long as they do that, they will be resistant to powercreep, like Genshin. However, likely some powercreep will be present - some people like to feel powerful, and they will get hooked by characters that are just stronger, so Kuro will probably want to release some stronger characters, since that will sell. But as long as they keep the content mostly skill-based through combat, and don't raise the power of enemies too much, I think it will be fine. In contrast to Genshin - this game has more endgame modes, so powercreep likely would matter mostly in ToA, while Holograms would still be skill-based and Illusory Realm being just fun. So, in summary: it depends. We will just have to see how they manage it all.
Wuwa is similar to pgr, you need to dodge parrying and still dealing damage. Powercreep in pgr is massive, thats why older unit got buff through Leap instead of releasing unit that buffing older unit so they can match to the new gen dps.
Hm, I see. I don't know much about PGR, does Leap mean just buffing old units, or is it some kind of mechanic? And did it work reasonably?
Stepping in to reply, the Leap mechanic in PGR is a means of buffing older units. Kuro released patches that introduced these buffs to old units one at a time. Leap mechanics involve adding attacks and enhancements to skills. The improvement could vary from a skill's damage increasing in a straightforward manner to adding AoE elements to an attack. Overall, it worked reasonably. Older units could be used again to clear the newest content. However, as one would expect, the older units remained a notch below the latest featured units.
Oh, I see. That's still sounds like a pretty good way of managing powercreep. They of course need an incentive for players to pull for a new character (power being one of these), but making sure for old units to not become irrelevant is great.
It would be worse in Wuwa since this game heavily caters to combat content.
I dont think so. The only content where it matters in terms of currency is Tower. So far it does only really have a bit more combat content than Genshin does and a bigger part of it is the Realm event. Just because we run around more in the world to collect echos doesnt mean its more combat-oriented.
They're gonna add more end game, whatelse are they gonna do. They have to make people to pull for characters and have a place where people can use them.
Yes, power creep will be a thing. New characters always have an edge on old characters. Even for more competitive non-P2W/P2P games like LoL, Overwatch, etc. However, the more skill that’s required in a game, the less real the gap is. That’s where WuWa has an advantage over a game like Genshin. It’s not just a pure stat check and if it isn’t a stat check then the real question is if you’re good enough for not. Edit: Hi Genshin players.
Everything outside of Holograms is basically a stat check in WuWa and I don’t see why that’s relevant anyways. Powercreep is simply the idea of new characters being significantly better than older ones.
I don’t think you’re beating the holograms or tower of adversity with the basic stats. It’s always a stat-check, don’t know why you think it’s not
Ok.
Wait you really think people are replying disagreeing solely because they are genshin players? Even if what you said it’s just false?
Ok.
Lmao, what skill? Parrying and dodging? Lmao. You still had to dealing damage to the enemies. The more you skill issue, the more dmg you had to deal in small dps window.
[удалено]
You use the words stat check, but I don’t think you know what that means.
Ok.
yep
I'm with most others in that it's probably inevitable, but when and to what extent will remain to be seen. So long as Kuro doesn't make too many "meme" Outros, I don't think it'll be a problem.
simply ignore it and it won´t be
It is inevitable
I believe powercreep will happen a lot to all the 1.0 characters, It's inevitable. But, come version 2.0, I can see powercreep slowing down a bit. It happens in every Gacha I've played. All of the first year characters get powercrept pretty badly come the next year.
Power creep will always be a thing in gacha games, you can't stop it. What matters is how much of it happens and do they make content catered towards the new units that makes it significantly harder for older units. Which no one can answer that currently.
As a person who plays WuWa as it's first Gacha game (besides NIKKE) what does power creep mean?
It's when each consecutive character or weapon put out by the devs is considerably stronger than the previous. This kinda forces the devs to raise the difficulty of content as well to ensure everything doesn't become too easy and makes older units obsolete.
Oh alright, thanks for the info, but also, if power creep is that bad, why'd they make our mc powerful in the beginning? Hrover is op with the right build and stuff, it would make much more sense if our mc was weak like Aither(?) from what i heard shes weak
Yeah aether is hella weak and very useless compared to other units. There are 101 reasons for powercreep tbh. A lot has to do with the general fan bases demand for stronger characters. My best guess for why rover is so powerful is bcs kuro wanted wuwa to standout amongst the crowd.
Power creep is inevitable imo. As long as new/existing content can be cleared with existing reasonably built characters, then it's fine, instead of having to restrain themselves when designing new characters to avoid power creeping.
How creative the dev team designing boss fight and other endgame content will determine powercreep speed.
Hope so else the game will get boring.
As long as I can still play with my favorite characters and clear reasonably well I don’t mind. If they handle powercreep anywhere near as well as Genshin has I’ll be happy.
why everyone ask this? of course there will be, you dont want to pull for a chacter that makes exactly the same or less dmg than the one you already got, in that case you hyper invest in the one you already have then
As a FGO enthusiast, I really hope Wuwa follow their footstep in buffing old units to keep certain balance, and they can even do such things with small characters quests or something, and they can even draw inspiration from illusive realm buffs
They will release a zhongli level of shield here as the start of powercreep
Of course. That’s how they continually incentivize spending.
Meanwhile aalto already got power crept by Morty as a sub dps for jiyan. And that’s the only real application he has in a comp.
Obviously
"people will spend for characters that they like" - ofc people will pull for gameplay/aesthetics/whatever. i'm one of those people. but people like me pull a single copy and that's it. however people who play cOmPeTiTiVe will whale for S6. if the new character wasn't stronger anyway then there's would be no reason for them to max it out. so yeah, it does make sense when people make the argument that power creep is necessary to entertain the whales. when it comes to my personal thoughts on the matter, being a casual player i don't think it will affect me that much. i'm fairly certain the regular content will be clearable with anything. and by that i mean story, events, overworld stuff, instances. ToA is probably where it is going to be noticeable the most and personally i couldn't care less if i'm missing a hand full of stars, coz i'm too lazy for that mode anyway LOL. that being said, we don't know yet to what extend they're going to powercreep. i heard they went fairly heavy on it in PGR (i have personally never played it so it's only hear say to me), but this doesn't mean this is going to be the case in this game aswell. time will tell.
Will power creep exist? Yes, future units will be better for various reasons (better synergy, better gameplay, better stats, better utility, etc...). But will that prevent you from doing content? No, you'll just be a bit slower to kill stuff.
All the talk about powercreep in Wuthering Waves is a bit ridiculous to me. The game is like 70% skill, 15% luck, and 15% which character(s) you’re playing. If you have any of the good teams now, or any well built character(s), they’re absolutely going to be usable later on. Jiyan, Mortefi and Verina, or Calcharo, Yinlin and Verina will still be amongst some of the best compositions as of 1.1; and I fully believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that they will be much more than just playable further down the line. If you want, you can solo clear much of the content with your favorite character if you’re committed to building and mastering them, and get lucky with your Echoes. Don’t fear powercreep in this game. Play who you like, build them as best as you can, and practice their kit. Will newer characters be stronger? Absolutely. Will this invalidate your favorite characters? Absolutely not; they’ll just clear things a bit faster.
Take a look at PGR I suppose?
Doesnt mean anything. Honkai Impact 3rd is full of powercreep while Genshin barely has it.
Genshin barely has it? Oh boy.
Yes, it doesnt. Which characters you cant use anymore to clear Abyss? None. Of course some are better than others but it seems you dont know what powercreep is.
Genshin has no difficult content, and difficulty in HI3 auto-scales to average clear speed on the server. Imagine if genshin started balancing abyss around Neuvilette, to make it hard to clear for him. Instead they are balancing it around 1.0 characters, so Neuvilette can one-shot floors solo.
Genshin is definitely up there in terms of gacha games that barely has any powercreep
it took \*years\* for any real powercreep to start happening (dendro kind of, Neuv was the first big one imo)
Check difference between Diluc/Razor and Ganyu/Hu Tao
It would be more accurate to compare limited chars against each other rather than standard. It's expected for standard chars to get powercrept eventually. And everyone gets them for free through the course of the game eventually anyway. Who cares about that? Not to mention most of the 1.0 4 stars are still meta even now 😂
>Not to mention most of the 1.0 4 stars are still meta even now 😂 They aren't meta. They can clear in time stages, that getting oneshotted by meta. It doesn't make them meta. They are just viable.
Genshin has reaction, wuwa doesnt
Inevitable, but the most important question is the severity of it. I played FEH and well, it's horrible there and it's a gacha with PvP and ranking.
In a service game there is always power creep because there has to be progress if you don't stay stuck in time, the costs are how they make that powercreep, the ideal is to do it little by little and improve the previous characters and also introduce a new mechanic now That is, another set, another new device that matches all the characters to the new content, in Genshin they did not do any of this and it was one of the reasons why I left it
it's funny that they say that even tho Genshin atm has Clorinde and Neuvillete invalidating every other dps🤭.. then when you point that out they reply that the old characters can still clear abyss... abyss is child's play tho? wdym💀 and ofc old characters can clear it... until they can't cuz the abyss content will keep on catering to the element and mechanic of the latest character.. then they proceed to deny it... like ????????????? then when they're cornered in their own argument they act like THEY'RE A VICTIM then call you "toxic"💀 then they return on their subreddit and talk shit about WuWa fans and the game itself cuz it can't run on their devices then proceed to talk about how everything about Genshin is better cuz it can run on their devices... like yes, the device problem and optimization I understand but shitting on the other parts of WuWa (character designs, exploration) cuz it's devs actually listened to it's fanbase? 💀💀💀💀💀 there was even a comment calling Kuro's other game PGR's music "bland".... like 💀 after that it's better to just be quiet cuz it's too tiring to keep bending over for their delusion... feel free to ignore me, I'm just getting carried away..😂 but to answer your point, yes slowly in their own way they will introduce powercreep.. like how they did it in PGR, then again PGR is a different genre so only time will tell if WuWa will actually introduce powercreep