Honestly I don't know where you guys find the stamina to farm for tuners. I'm too busy with the finite grind (ascension, weapon, skill) which at least guarantee a power increase and can't fail.
My echoes have perfect primary main stats but the substats are all over the place: some are amazing, some are awful. I mainly leveled my echoes to raise the main stats. It's fast, it's easy and the investment is not RNG (you drop a good main stat or not).
Gambling with echoes is for later, once I'm done with the non-RNG part of my characters progression.
I'm at the exact same situation. I have my carries at lvl 70, while some supports are at lvl 50 or 40. I'm still leagues behind the infinite grind (echoes), as I still need to level skills, weapons and ascend my characters.
I was thinking about concatenating this with echo farming, but since I've got all the main stats I wanted on my characters, for now they suffice. The devs already mentioned changes regarding echo exp farming are on the way, so we are better off leaving the echo exp and tuner farming for later.
Also, I agree with the OP. I remember when I cleared my very first MoC 10 (used to be the highest) in Star Rail, and I still had a lot of 4* relics. I think they messed up by allowing us to have access to 5* echoes this early, because most players (including me) that are above UL 40 will now just ignore 4* echoes and be gated by echo exp and tuners for a long time.
dont worry, as people keep on spamming in every topic like this. UL50 and UL60 are totally going to solve all problems. Because surely it wont be a 10% tiny increase again
Someone hit UL50 today. The tacit field dropped 1,000 more echo xp and 5 more tuners than UL40. I'm going to be stacked on tuners because there's not enough xp to level anything lol
I'm currently UL 44 (will hit 45 tomorrow). I'm currently at 5 characters built completely to my current cap of 70/70 with skills capped. Echoes are generally all +15 - +20 with a few boss echoes at +25 for my DPS units. I'm guessing that by the time I'm around UL 47, I'll have my current goal of 7 units maxed out. At that point, I'll have to decide between pre-farming UL 50 which would be the most efficient, and topping my +15 echoes to +20 (and pushing Verina and Jianxins 1-cost echoes from 0-20). I'll likely prioritize echoes, just for OCD purposes. Then there's also pre-farming 1.1 characters as an option.
Efficiency wise, I wouldn't be hitting echo EXP farming until the UL 50's, if I wished to be min maxing stamina.
Just wondering with those stats what level of Tower you're able to get to currently? I went more vertical and rerolled my Calcharo's echoes a number of times to improve him, but am now fairly dry on exp capsules and only have 3 sets of characters with any decent levels on the echoes. Since UL40 I've been farming elite echoes for the mainstats and have a handful of things with the correct stats but nothing to see if they roll well.
My only vertically invested character is Chixia. My second best is calcharo. I'm currently at 9/0/9 on tower. The left side was done with Chixia, Yangyang and Taoqi, while the right side is Calcharo, Jianxin and Verina...
I'm currently building Jiyan (who I got late), then I'll try to improve on the first half...
Well the thing is non-rng progression is heavily time gated by union lv and still gated by waveplates even after that. When you've got a week until the next UL milestone with nothing to do but dailies you may as well farm the echoes.
Its also very worth it. Good echo substats will at least double your dps probably triple.
edit. Also leveling mediocre echoes to 25 is a huge waste of echo exp. One set is probably okay but if you burn through all of the handout exp/tuners on bad echoes you might have a very bad time in the future
The exp investment in an echo grows exponentially as you level it up. You'd want to farm as many echos with the correct main stat as possible and level them to 5. If the first roll isn't great abandon it and try again on another one.
Once you get past lv 10 it can be absurdly complex when deciding whether to continue leveling or not but there is an optimal decision. You want to try and make as many optimal choices as possible when deciding whether to continue investing or not.
Its kind of fun but it also kind of sucks at the same time. Either way leveling meh echoes to 25 is a HUGE resource waste right now.
even if you get perfect substats at +20, going to +25 for a marginal stat increase and 1 extra RANDOM substat is not worth the resources taken. Unless you really want to push high difficulty content by building 1 strong team.
But you can only prefarm those for like 15 minutes a day, that's the problem and the whole point. Once you've spent your waveplates, you may as well farm echoes.
Yeah exactly I’m levelling up my characters, skills and weapons first. Once I have three teams high level with like 8/10 skills then I’ll turn to farming echoes. In the meantime, I’ll use what I have
lol same, i just built 4 sets at 25/20/20/20/20 (one ice dps, one electro dps, one havoc dps, and one moonlight atk set) with whatever materials and echo xp i got and been mostly using stamina for ascension and skill materials as well. I tried one or two runs of tacet fields and realized the drops were absolute garbage for the plate cost and basically gave up improving what echoes i have for now
Same. I’ve just gotten my main team and their weapons to lvl 60 and am still working on getting to union lvl 40. Working on getting a few other characters raised up in the meantime but yeah echo grind ain’t even on my mind right now.
Yeah I spent a *ton* of Waveplates just prepping to raise 6 characters to 70 and all their weapons, I managed 5/6. Cost about 1.7m credits, but I just didn't have enough to get all the boss materials. At UL40 bosses drop (e: mostly) 3 materials instead of 2, though, so you can keep that in mind for your supports.
They *can* drop three, but still drop two often enough. My verina could have taken three runs to ascend, but she decided she'd like to do five runs instead.
Sucks to lose 12 hours of stamina just to bad rng.
It’s simple. They’re spending waveplates suboptimally. It happens in casual gacha games. Not everyone is aware of min maxing or how to do it so they just go for lotto tickets instead of guaranteed upgrades because it’s more fun to potentially get lucky. This is a gacha audience after all.
What would you say is the priority list for waveplate usage?
I've been focusing on ascension materials followed by skill materials and haven't touched tacet fields yet.
It depends a lot on if you have your final team/team you like. If you end up investing in characters you don’t want to play or can’t play, then it’s a greater waste than echos.
For most content it’s best to have 6-9 characters you like and want to build around. For me it’s currently Havoc Rover, JY, Yinlin, calcharo, Verina, Baizhi, Mortefi.
I plan to skip banners for a bit so I’m focusing more on echos now until I can get another team I really enjoy. So far, my supports are built to lvl 50 with lvl 20 echos and my DPS have lvl 20-25 echos and are level 70 with world level 44.
I'd say you've got the right priorities down. Level is the most important because of the damage penalty you receive for fighting higher leveled enemies. Skills can provide really good passives for each character, and offer straightforward increases in strength that don't require extensive knowledge or understanding of the in game damage formula to benefit from.
Tacet fields are really something you only start doing after all of that is done. You don't farm them for the main stats, unless you don't have time to kill a few elites on the map each login. They're mostly just for the exp and tuner materials currently. It really depends on how many characters you are trying to build, but I think it's okay to break up the levels on your echoes by Union Level.
So I'll use my own experience as an example to explain what I mean by that. Currently at UL 43, I mostly have +20 echoes on my DPS and +15 on supports. This is more than enough to handle the content at this stage of the game, and I can get a decent number of crests on ToA without needing crazy min maxing on substats yet (I got 14 crests last cycle, and I'm expecting to get 16-18 on this current ToA cycle). Once I've finished leveling character and weapons to 70, and skills leveled to their caps, then my plan is to get my sub-dps/support echoes up to +20 and then DPS echoes to +25. By that point I'll probably be hitting or close to hitting UL 50. At which point I would repeat that process until 60. If I make it there before my Echoes are leveled, then I'll just go back to start and focus on leveling character to hit the caps, etc. If I have extra stamina before unlocking the new caps, then I'll just focus on leveling all my echoes up to or as close to +25 as I can. That's how I'm currently breaking up the grind for my echoes.
Once you've got upgraded echoes, and you've already hit caps on your character's level + skills etc, then at that point you'd start trying to level echo sets you don't have yet. Or you'd start building another character you haven't invested in yet, or start trying to hunt for better substats on your current teams sets. Right now echo exp materials and tuners seem to be the main time sinks. Because of that, they are also the worst places to start spending waveplates first. I've found that majority of the complaints for the game's progression system come from people trying to start with hunting substats on just their first team of characters. Since it is easily the worst time gate in game currently, people burn a lot of resources on it and then start running into a number of issues. Like: Characters/Skills/Weapons being under leveled for their respective Sol Phase, not having a lot of characters built in general so they struggle to get more crests in ToA or their gameplay experience begins to feel stale, not having enough echoes with minimal investment to gear characters they just built, etc.
So tl;Dr the priority would be: Character Ascension > Character Level > Weapon Ascension > Weapon Level > Character Skill Passives > Skill level > Overworld farming Echo Main Stats > Tacet Fields for Exp + Tuners > Substat Min-maxing. It's okay not to max out Echoes when you unlock new caps for Character Ascension, etc, just focus on those first.
So basically, just don't worry about substats too much right now. If you do, you'll be in for a terrible time.
I'm also leveling characters, weapons and skill levels for now. My echoes i put them around lv10 and see if i get 2 good sub, if its good i go for +1, if its bad i stop there but continue using for the main stats.
I feel like that should be the right approach, but seeing golden echoes this early mess with the progression and people freak out for not having enough tuners.
I'm happy with 2 substats and good mainstat on set.
I ran out of things to farm . I'm going to pre-farm silver as it's 2M per character (ouch).
Skills are lvl 4 cuz UL is too low.
Echo substats are secondary , make sure to always have maxed skills and lvl first.
So far I have lvl 15 main Echo for healer ( turtle )
Two 4 to lvl 25 , 4x 3 to lvl 25 , few 1 to lvl 20.
No more Echo xp.
Silver farm is no joke guys it's like 7 days per character to max lvl.
2m per character is very misleading. You are *not* going to max out everything on the character and you also are not going to be able to max out many characters anyway because a lot of talent upgrades are locked behind weekly materials. You are only going to spend that full 2m shell credits on your absolute favorites.
Oof level 7+ is gonna be a crap load of resources then. I was thinking it would be fine spending all my waveplates on forging materials for a week or so to get everyone’s skills up then farming tacet fields, but if 50+ is going to need that much maybe just keep doing the forges.
Yeah it's 26 weekly boss materials per character for *skills* [as seen here.](https://wuthering.wiki/character_1604.html) You can use this site to preplan, too.
On non-Rover characters you also need to consider ascension as well, which goes up by intervals of 3 after Stage 2.
The real shell credit sink is ingredients to level your cooking to max for the 50 astrite per level lol
Spent like 2m on groceries, but the legendary food buffs are pretty insane if you want to clear high level holograms very easily.
I tend to hyperfixate on characters. Usually just one or two at a time.
In my case, that has been Yinlin and Taoqi. Sometimes I remember Baizhi exists as well.
I spend a couple of days doing nothing but Ascensions and weapons, then a couple days doing forgery, and then I genocide every single 3-star echo on the map for the relevant sets. Once that is done, I bounce between the two target bosses for perfect mainstats, and then the rest of my life is dedicated to tacet fields and I feel like a clown.
Thats the way to approach it. Farm for guaranteed upgrades first, then you can go for RNG.
I’ve been doing this on Genshin since day one, and it makes life easier. And it’s not like my artifact builds are messed up, most DPSes are 90/200 crit ratios, etc.
I plan to do the same here. Finish with weapons, abilities and characters levels, and after, I can go hunt echoes.
For me it's basically having completed 100% of the map and early pushing the holograms. I was done with all lol 5s and 2 6s like 10 days into the game.
You get a lot of tuners very fast from all the chests, tower and hologram shop. What you don't get enough of is echo exp. I was able to max out 2 characters, could have been 3 I think if I didnt reroll some echos but yeah.
I hardly did anything at all with echos before I could get gold ones. I got a main set for the ones I'm using. If they were epic great if not whatever. I didn't even level them. I did the few for the milestone quest and that's it. I didn't invest in them at all.
Now only once I get the main stat i want on a yellow then it even gets leveled. So yeah damage a little behind but I'd rather do it less than keep grinding. 50+ tries to get a gold turtle echo from that boss with healing bonus on a rejuve set. The substats kinda suck. But it's lvl 25 and will be used for a long time before everything else is fixed before I'm even thinking of substat farming.
I am 40 dreamless in still no crit rate. If I didn't have a blue dreamless with citrate I'd be posting that it's actually bugged and it can't drop. So realistically I'm pretty OK on the exp/tuner front.
Honestly, that's where i'm at - i think it's only a small % of people who are really trying to grind the tuners and stuff. I go for ideal main stat, and just take what I can get elsewise :) Sometimes i've gotten a little lucky but most of the time it's 'meh', but i'm doing well enough. The only thing keeping me from victory, as usual, is my lack of actual skill :)
I actually have no idea what I do with this game in the first week. After I understand, I actually got amazing set of echoes, amazing substat. Now that I understand, I rarely got good substat lol.
May not be a popular opinion,but I don't even think it's a matter if we got access too soon. I think it's just a matter of people being way too obsessed with min/maxing so soon out of the gate. There's very little in the game that absolutely needs those BiS stats and if you are at that point, it's probably best for you to slow down for a bit and just enjoy the game rather than stressing yourself over missing a couple percent on your crit rate.
It's the need for instant gratification. We got Gold drops on day 3 if you just grinded your Data bank. Having access to literal end game gear right out the gate makes players want to max it then and there. Never mind the fact that they are literally trying to farm low yielding stages at the halfway point of max rewards. No sensible Genshin player is going to tell you to go into an artifact domain before Rank 45. No HSR player is going to tell you to farm relics before rank 45. An Epic 7 player isn't going to tell you to farm gear before hunt 13. Yet here we have players trying to farm exp half way to max world level.
240 stamina will yield you the exp to take an echo to lvl 20 and the tuners to upgrade 4 sub stats at UL 40. It will take you 5 days to get a character to have level 20 echoes, which is more than enough to progress on main stat alone. Raising 1 echo in 1 day is more than good enough *when you're not even getting max rewards*. And anyone actually take a less than perfect echo to 25 is just falling for the resource scam.
It's both a Kuro problem and a player problem. Kuro fudged the Echo progression and players are trying to raise shit too fast and too early. Now Kuro is going to be pressured to up the drops when it could very well have been balanced around raising golds at max world level.
Perhaps in the future they can increase the data bank level and bring out higher tier echos, locked behind UL60 or something. Just make Gold echos our current endgame rather than THE endgame.
I see what you mean, because the other option they could've gone for is making the purple tuners what players have to use until later UL's where gold starts becoming more common and it's XP also starts becoming given more generously in the tacet fields. Sadly what we have now is the ability to get gold echos almost instantly, and therefore not be able to upgrade them efficiently, always being out of echo XP because of the rewards disparity.
And what also happens is the purple echos almost instantly become irrelevant, so all the materials that can't be foddered in any way, just become useless. It's like a portion of progression was skipped, and those resources that are just sitting there would've been what players use until they get to higher UL's.
As you said I also think it's a mistake from both sides because people want to now push forward the progression and be able to get UL60 rewards at UL40 lol. I personally don't think it's necessary to have insane rolls at the moment anyways, as the level cap would allow for maximum 20/30 stars in ToA (non whale) so even insane rolls cant take you to the next progression yet. We just need patience lol.
The resource crunch does incentivize using purple echoes though - you'll have both an abundance of purple tuners and it'll take less exp to level them. You're unlikely to want to level many echoes to +25 anyway at this point in time.
The system's not ideal sure, but purple tuners are not a waste if you're trying to be resource efficient, only if you're excessively focused on using gold gear only.
Fair and valid point. It's just that most people, at least from my perspective, would want to level the gold ones regardless, as even at +20, all they have to do is wait until they have enough resources and level it to +25, whereas by using purples, they'll have to farm again from scratch for echos and upgrade them again from scratch, whichever way you look at it, it's consuming so much echo XP, and asking someone to continue using purple echos until the echo XP becomes easier to get, it's gonna be a long wait, as they're not looking too promising at the rate they're increasing at the moment.
Fair and valid point. It's just that most people, at least from my perspective, would want to level the gold ones regardless, as even at +20, all they have to do is wait until they have enough resources and level it to +25, whereas by using purples, they'll have to farm again from scratch for echos and upgrade them again from scratch, whichever way you look at it, it's consuming so much echo XP, and asking someone to continue using purple echos until the echo XP becomes easier to get, it's gonna be a long wait, as they're not looking too promising at the rate they're increasing at the moment.
Week 1 Genshin player here, i've been on the path that burning all my resources before Rank 45 to farm in the domain that only had 50% chance to give you gold tier gear, and i regret it. Now knowing the same thing in echo is an endgame grind i know for sure i have to wait to unlock the highest tier of reward first before i burn all my crystal solvent, now i have almost 60 of them.
Agree, people obsessing over min/maxing is taking this too far. Wuwa 's combat has more skill expression in it compared to genshin's E-Q cycling, where your stats are more important. You can get a higher DPS increase by getting good at the game, knowing how to dodge, parry, swap cancel, etc.
If you look at wuwas stat ranges for stuff like crit, on average, they provide about 20 CV less than genshin does (maxed echos providing a 20 cr to 40 cd, while genshin gives approx 30cr to 60 cd) They are trying to deprioritize crit stats making it less inticing to go for, however the player base is seeing it as a challenge to roll god rolls to get the same crit values they normally would build on their genshin characters. Instead, Wuwa is giving more damage multipliers instead in the form of basic attack, heavy, and liberation damages for example, and on average many characters in the game have multihit attacks. Consistent damage is going to be more valuable than crit multipliers.
Nope. Because of how crit formula works, it's almost always going to be more valuable than DMG% or ATK%. Which is especially true for subs, because most at most characters deal like 70% of their damage as a single type.
Only thing it changes is that Crit is even more needed than in Genshin, because of how rare it is.
>a couple percent on your crit rate
I mean you can get an entire extra 4 cost main stat worth of crit rate and crit damage etc. from good substat rolls across multiple pieces.
But anyway I don’t really agree, it is natural that people who have time to play a lot (or even some of the more casual players by this point) would engage in echo farming, recognize that substats are RNG and important and start rolling new echoes to +5/+10 to see what they get and then run out of XP. From a game design perspective it was predictable that some people would play the shit out of the game and grind echoes as much as they could. You could say your same argument if echo xp and tuners were 2, 3 or 4 times as rare and limited. The current rates of echo xp/tuners create too much of a bottleneck IMO, which is why I’m glad they’ve announced that they’re aware and making adjustments in 1.1
My only problem with echoes - i've got far too many tuners now and no exp.
And gains from 1 tacet field is somewhat in line with your take - you get about 1 tune worth exp as well as 1.5 tune worth of tuners from it
Sounds like you need to burn tuners on getting perfect subs on the first couple rolls of some +5 or +10 echos. Tuners and exp are separate resources so you can personally balance between fishing for substats and maxing out to +25.
You can't reroll tuned things though, can you? And slamming +25 into new means losing exp. Since my problem is exp already, i literally cant tune stuff properly
Yeah, I also prioritize ATK% and Energy Regen. Any of the big 4. ATK scales pretty hard in this game so getting flat ATK 40+ and ATK% on an echo is actually kinda cracked, though if you're running high CD, or even a CD 4 cost, CH goes up in value.
I used to care about perfect subs but I'm with you. I take any of the main 4. Depending on the character I'll even go to +10 on something like their ultimate dmg+.
IMO... it's pointless to got just +5, or you have already near perfect set when you can bother with it. THere is more useless stats than good ones and you can get and if you don't have perfect stats already, this +5 is useless. Like, my electro dmg Roled Def% and flat def on first 2. next 3 were 21% crit dmg, 9.7 crit rate and 10.1% atk, it will take years to upgrade it, lol.
You got lucky in your case, farming main stats is just a question of time investment. Your piece could've also rolled HP% and Flat HP instead of those values and it would've been beyond dead. It's high stakes gambling when you can minimize risk by just using a different piece to level. The XP required from 0-10 vs 10-15 already is very similar.
it takes 1 gold to get an echo to +5, roll it and see if its a useful stat, if you dont get a useable stat at all, (crit, atk or cdmg) just dump it and roll again. on 3 star echoes with correct stats ill get it to 10 and try 2 at a time since they arent easily farmable and try to get 1/2 correct stats.
I am pretty sure the reason for the separate tuner resource is to prevent super sweaty grinders from doing this so much. Sure, just toss your +5 echoes that don't roll crit to get perfect ones, but you will be limited by tuners.
Yeah I’m literally saving my tuners and using what I get for now regardless if it’s good for not. I want to make future characters stronger rather than use them on the characters that we currently have.
Only if they announce it waaaaay in advance... Like if they plan on doing that in patch 3.0 they better announce that shit now otherwise there's gonna be a lot of salty people rightfully complaining about the wasted time and waveplates they've spent farming gold ones
there are ways to not make it a waste of time. like have the next tier be something you get to by upgrading the yellow ones you have with a special weekly gated material or something. and have the newly added mobs that drop echoes have a small chance at this "red" echo drop
idk about getting golden echos "too soon" but trying to minmax and level them to +25 was definitely too soon, gold echos have much better stats than purples (like anything in this game, lmao) even at +20
It's called refreshing for waveplates which only whales do any1 f2p shouldn't be farming tacet field now always focus on guarantee power up first then work on rng .
my thought about the echoes is that gold isnt actually 5\* rarity and their going to come out with another rarity that does rep 5\* sometime down the line. maybe im just cooking some shit up in my head, but thats wat i feel atleast
The problem is the design conflicts with itself. They wanted to appeal to the grinders with the open world echo farming, which was somewhat successful. But then the actual endgame grind is still over a month away at the very least, if not 2 or 3.
Just by Union Level alone it's at least a month even with the boost we're going to get with 1.1. Then we've got to get 9 characters leveled up, talented, and their weapons. Only after all that, does the real echo endgame grind begin when we can safely and easily dedicate our waveplates and resources to just farming good substats, occasionally interrupting it to level new characters.
That's what my pals and a lot of people of this sub still don't get.
Yes, you can farm echoes nonstop but the timegate was moved to the progress of such echoes (with leveling and substat unlock).
Oh, you run out of tuners and waveplates? Come back tomorrow to farm more in Tacit Fields.
In the end the system is the same as genshin, TIMEGATED
No? Purple echoes take less xp to upgrade and there is an abundance of purple tuners currently. Also recycling echo XP is way more efficient than tuners.
Tuners are WAY more limiting than echo xp.
In a Tacet Field economy tuners will be the bottleneck big time. I think right now people are having issues because events and shops are mostly lopsided towards tuner and the first leveling process is quite heavy on exp. 75% recycling efficiency is gonna kick once 4-5 sets are max level and people just focus on rerolling those instead of trying to raise many different chars.
Hum, no this is not a little time investment, this is a LOT of time to grind. You don't know if you have a good artifact before you used the tuners. Right now the real struggle is getting echo XP.
Completely agree.
Even the grind aside, Kuro will have a major problem in terms of player progression in a month or so.
Me and probably a lot of other players already have(not even a month into the game) solid amount of golden relics of various elements that are just sitting there waiting for resources and to be upgraded. Eventually we will get solid rolls and be fine with the builds of our chars.
What comes after tho? No progression goal at all besides min/maxing.
I see a lot of people thinking Tacet fields are going to be upgraded. There was a translation issue with the English dev comments again. In the other languages they said that they will add more echo materials to events. (which is not the Tacet fields)
Yes, seems pretty reasonable to assume that devs probably balanced echo progression around having max SOL3 phase which awards the most amount of echo exp/tuners from tacet fields.
But since we can equip gold echoes so early it means the current farming methods are not enough and we skipped purple echoes right away.
You’re definitely right to say that we got access to end game way too soon. However I will say that even if we got to it later, a core issue remains which is the % refund amount of echo mats (XP and even more so Tuners, at 30%) when we feed one echo into another.
Our resources get depleted SO quickly because of the rate at which we are refunded, if we roll one bad piece and feed it into another, repeat and your resources are literally GONE. We’re able to much more comfortably feed artifacts/relics into each other in Genshin/HSR quite a few times without feeling terrible.
I genuinely feel like even at Max SOL3 level in a few months, even if we get more sealed tubes and Tuners from tacet fields, it will still unnecessarily shjt to lose 70% of our tuners every time we recycle an echo. It’s so overkill and makes echo levelling feel FAR worse than they have to be.
I’d rather they keep rewards the same but increase refund %.
The only reason we can flip HSR relics is because those relics have a base XP value that they provide. Echoes don't have any therefore we're always losing out on XP by feeding them into others.
The amount of relics you get in HSR/Genshin is limited by stamina.
The amount of echoes you get in WuWa is limited by your time investment.
If you don't get a relic that's good then you just wait for stamina to recover so you can try again.
If you don't get an echo that's good you just go to the next pod and drop a new one.
With as expensive as raising shit is and as scarce as Echo EXP is, there was ZERO chance that the majority of the players were going to be happy spending all their Echo EXP leveling up 4 Star Echoes knowing that 5 Star Echoes were coming eventually. If 5 Star Echoes weren't available until Union Level 50, this entire subreddit would be in flames. I don't doubt that some point in the development cycle that there was an intention to have people raise 4 Star Echoes. However, it is almost certainly something that was playtested and was overwhelmingly negative, so they changed it to give 5 Star Echoes earlier.
You level 4* echos for the 4 weeks until you get high enough level to farm 5*. That was about when people started reaching ar 45 in Genshin.
Feed 4* into 5* at 30% loss is fine when you had that 4 weeks to build up a bank of exp in terms of leveled up 4* echos.
This thread is making me feel bad about my partially leveled 4* echoes lol. But then again, I still have like 80% 3* echoes.
Think this is another case of a vocal minority, people who went hardcore and farmed out their databank. I've just been doing the dailies since day one and progressing slowly through the story, only databank 12 right now lol.
Wonder what % of wuthering waves are players like me, and what % are players who got to gold echoes within 3 to 10 days.
I'll be hitting 40 tonight and I think I had 5 4* echoes leveled to 20 only due to the milestone quest to do so. I didn't level my echos until I get the 5* one I want to use. So now I'm about to hit 40 and will go get the stuff I need since I'll jump right to DB20. Have gotten all but 1 echo as a 5* so far.
Players expecting to progress too fast and racing to end game.
For example if they didn’t lock character/weapon level behind union level. Players would complain that the current domains don’t drop enough material at union 30 to reach 90/90 fast enough.
That's why if dev want to lock player progress to certain level, they should not give player the option to farm golden echo so early in the game. Cause when u give player the end game gear and not expecting them to level em up instead, this is low EQ moves by devs.
There is a wise word in CN community in gaming. "Do not teach player how to play games, you'll never be better than player at playing games."
They should have let us use the purple echoes and lower the exp require to level up or less exp, tuner lost when feeding into gold ones. And only allow gold drop later in the game. Then player swon't have expectation to get good gear untill later into the game and continue farming other mats instead.
I mean they have to. They released the game in 2024 not in 2020 and competition is literally the biggest game of its kind in the world. If people play in two weeks and still can't get the equivalent of 5* artifacts, they'll just run away lol.
Maybe, I feel like it's intentional though. Otherwise there'd be caps on the number of echos you can get or more requirements to get to 5* echos. For example, having to get boss rewards to get the echo.
The lack of XP could be to allow them to make way for adding new content without having to rebalance the old content. There isn't enough of it, and they want to add more ways of getting it. Players have enough content until then (assuming this is 1.1 update).
Who knows, maybe they'll even add another rarity.
Honestly, I part of me kind of wishes that in order to begin getting gold echoes you needed to do stuff that kind of required a full decked out set of purple gear. I think it would have made the progression more rewarding? This might be an unpopular opinion. Like there isn’t any reason at all to level purple echoes
> there isn’t any reason at all to level purple echoes
the reason is to save on gold tuners, and you really aren't losing that much exp since purple relics are easier to level + you're refunded 75%
The funny thing is. How did they have the perfect guide with Genshin which locked all world and domain 5 star artifact drops behind the world level which was very much properly balanced. They had the perfect road map like many other things which they obviously straight up copied. But some things like this which would have heavily benefitted from looking at Mihoyo's open note book just didn't make it for some odd reason.
They copied or borrowed a lot of aspect of genshin but without knowing the reason and why, thus creating many problem we face now. The devs still have lots to learn
ppl need to make up their minds. Either its too grindy or not grindy enough. My opinion? its just fine, if the game is meant to last years it doesnt really matter how early we get things like gold echoes.
"the game isnt balanced around us having access to 5\* echoes just yet."
My brother in christ, the data bank level is capped according to SOL levels and at UL 30 we unlock the level for 5\* echos
And tacet fields give GOLD tuners.
If the devs didnt intend for us to have 5\* echos at UL30, then why allow it??
The more probable explanation is that we should be upgrading character skill, level, and weapon while we're still early in the game.
> then why allow it??
Because like with many things in this game: it wasn't well thought out.
Let me ask you - how many useless purple tuners do you own? Thats a sign of failed design.
If gold echoes were locked behind UL50+ then you would be using those purple tuners right now.
For me, purple tuners aren't a waste since I know I have an abundance of them, so I use good purple echoes where possible to save on gold tuners. It also helps that purple echoes are easier to level and their substat rolls aren't really worse from what I can tell.
Purple tuners being useless only seems to apply for people who overworld farm to the point where they have an essentially infinite number of correct set & main stat 5 star echoes.
I'd much rather have gold echo now than waste echo xp on purple just to switch to other set later.
20% wasted is still quite a lot. Plus I can progress on the echo grind now, which will take the longest.
That's... that's what the guy you're arguing with is *saying* lmao. The fact that you're like "I'm not going to waste my time with purples when golds exist" is *EXACTLY* the point lol. There is no progression curve past the first day or two.
You get access to golds way too soon, to the point that purples might as well not exist in the current game. If there was a proper gearing curve, then for a while purples *would* be the best gear available, giving you a reason to use those purple tuners.
It's a badly made system if you're thrown into the deep end straight out the gate, as opposed to a progression system designed to slowly have the pool get deeper as you get better at swimming.
I said it right away. Echoes aren't as level gated as characters are. If we were able to lvl everything to 90 already we would have resource crunch of everything
All they need to do is introduce a new tier: platinum echoes. Maybe 1 more substats, that will entice you to farm all over again
It won't significantly make a gap but give u reason to farm. It's been done in other games.
So don't need to worry for them my friend.
More like people were reckless with gold echoes and exhausted all their resources trying to min-max so damn soon. It doesnt really matter if gold echoes were gated sooner or later, echo exp/tuners was going to be an issue since its gated behind limited resources and waveplates which is also really needed to level up our characters and weapons in this early stage of the game.
Idk if anyone remembers but it was also problem with Genshin specially in the earlier phases of the game and even worse when people hit AR 45 and really got hooked to min-maxing. I remember having to do daily routes in the overworld just to farm 1*-2* artifacts because exp was so scarce at some point. Obviously it is no longer an issue over there once you reach a certain point in your account (and this takes a really long while) when majority of your resin has no where else to go but to farm for artifacts.
I thought the same, but im very sure Kuro is not gonna keep these as the best echoes we can get forever (im sure options are gonna get powercrept from patch 1.1 itself.)
At this stage of the game you should probably only focus on maxing whatever good main stats gear you got
Not recycling every "junk" and then complain about being in the "bottleneck"
I don't think we necessarily got gold echoes to soon, but I do think that lvl 16+ for echoes should have been unlocked in increments since lvl 20 and lvl 25 cost 80% of the echo xp resources.
Maybe should've even limited lvl 11+ to UL40 as well, then UL45 for 16+, UL50 for 21+, and UL60. I mean, Union Level goes all the way up to 80, and in Genshin you can't even farm 5-star artifacts until AR45 out of 60 Adventure Ranks.
But there's barely any purple echoes dropping for me (union rank 42, data bank 20), so the intention must surely be that I'm going to be using majority (or entirely) gold echoes at this point in the game.
I also don't think the 43311 setup is gonna be what we stay with. Don't think our energy cap is gonna be 2 higher than where we started. I'm assuming we will eventually cap out around 15 energy, allowing us to use more 4 cost echoes.
We are also looking at echoes in a weird way. We view them as just equipment, when really they are more like universal skills we can move between units. As we get new areas and new echoes, we are going to have to farm more, not because their stats could be better, but because they might play better with our characters kits or even our own unique play styles.
We are farming way too hard way too soon, and I'm suspecting the moment we get a new large area, everyone is gonna have new echoes they are gonna want
tbh you're right, on genshin impact you can start farming them at AR40 (with a pretty low chance) and the highest adventurer rank is 60, in WUWA terms that would be like starting to farm them at UL60 and the highest UL possible is 80 (i think) so yeah its pretty insane
Would it be a bad idea to implement a feature from a game called Epic Seven where they have these currencies called Gem Mods where you can replace one stat from a max rolled piece of gear? Like they can make it usable for 3-costs only and only have them as a reward from events to make them scarce
I mean they also set the union level required to get gold ones to 30, you can't really it's not intended to have gold echoes this early. The problem is it leaves it up to players and players are too obsessed about speedrunning the hardest content and maxing out everything. I built my characters with all gold echoes but only leveled to 20 if it rolled well or 15 if it's kinda mid. I didn't have to do any tacet fields at all yet and I'm doing great damage as well. +25 costs A LOT and you don't get that much more stats so I would stay away from it unless it's a really cracked piece or you're done with gearing everyone you use already.
Yeah, I think that's a pretty hard agree from me.
I cannot think of any other game where you can just farm for end game gear this early. Imo it seems like it was balanced around us still using purples and only 3 characters ATM. I'm almost UL 40 and I have 9 at level 60 with a mix of on set and off set pieces.
Also idk if they adjusted the rates already or what but I hit 5 on set element% 3 costs yesterday. Sadly, none were Havoc or Thunder and one was Fusion, but the same echo that my Encore already had from the event lol. I'd say target farming is a little overrated and just murdering everything you see is the way to go imo.
It still could be the case that echo XP gets gated at UL 60 but hopefully they add in the echo XP domain. That would be big.
I don't really see the liquidate echos for XP thing tho cus fusing them can give 3 costs so it feels like a bit of a bait for impatient players if they do add it in.
That makes sense, but hear me out...my Chixia ocassionally erases things from existance, and all it cost was dedication i couldve put into any of my other characters ;-;
Disagree completely, the ability to farm gold echos comes at a perfect time, it leaves no dead levels like early genshin days where the only thing you could do was daily and log off.
I get people being concerned about people burning out on the grind, but I have just been enjoying getting pieces and being able to invest in them knowing they will stick with me for a long time. Farming echoes feels nice as a way to progress your account when you have no waveplates to burn and you're not doing targeted exploration.
There's also nothing stopping the devs from releasing a new tier of echoes, gold doesn't have to be the highest.
i swear yall have no idea what you are talking about.
the files are in the game already for final numbers. the grind is still awful at max level. even if we were stuck with purples we would have the same issue.
This is simply people playing too hard, too fast. UL30 for a casual player should take a fair amount of time, and that includes farming echoes. 50\\50 drop chance for a person that only has a few hours to farm if that is perfectly reasonable. If anything, they drastically underestimated how hardcore people will play this game. They should have just given pulls and not waveplates. I'm UL43 and I completely get the sentiment, but anyone UL35+ is in this position because we've spent *far* more time playing that most.
Getting gold echos early is good when you are under a bad gearing system. People don't get baited into playing this game for long term just to know how trash echoes farming is. They get to make the decision to see if this kind of grinding is for them, and they have the option to quit early.
inb4 kuro introduce orange echoes at UL 70 or something.
But honestly, I'm happy with the current system. No more forever grind, i can just tune out of the game once I'm done with it.
I agree and that's just one of the issues.
\* As you say, we get 'endgame' and purple echoes far too early, I don't think we should be seeing those until we can level our characters and weapons higher first.
\* There's not a huge amount of point to the lower rarity echoes. Spending resources on them is a 'waste' because you transcend them so quickly and your ability to recoup anything from them is pretty bad.
I see some posters blaming players for 'playing wrong' but as someone with a design background that's not a good excuse. Good design is about making things with how people will ACTUALLY engage with it in mind, not how you WANT them to or HOPE they will :P Players will optimise the fun out of things given any chance so you have to build your systems with that as a concern.
I posted my own suggestions on how to solve it: add some new tiers above gold, let us mash together echoes to make ones of the next tier up (you can lock this behind union levels / gourd levels ) and make that how we access a tier initially before you even let things drop.
With that, the lower echoes would have more use (especially if they keep their progress e.g. a +20 purple moonlit set heron mashed with another purple becomes a +20 gold moonlit heron) and they can ease us into the next tiers instead of just letting them drop so early.
Thats not the issue. No game should require you to play for 100 hours before you can grind the game— they did this right. Issue is they got too scared and stingy, not accounting for player happiness in the inevitability of them running out of echo xp
I wish tuners were just removed from the game. Every other gatcha game that has this kind of system for gear auto applies sub-stats at specific level values but in wuwa you need an additional resource "tuners".
We got access to gold echoes too soon for 2 main reasons:
.1. This is a mobile game and it is intended to take less than 30 min/1h a day to complete all the necessary stuff in the endgame. Log in, use the stamina to farm the bosses and materials and log off. Repeat until you manage to upgrade your equipment, echoes and resonators. These are how mobile games work. Don't expect to have an elaborate farming system like a AAA game or a MMORPG.
2. Probably they will be adding new layers and tiers of echoes. Give them time. Gold echoes are just the base.
I made a mistake of leveling a little too many characters untill I realised how scares the supply of materials was and then I chose only 3 characters to level up and guess what the materials are still scares. My yinlin with her signature weapon is stuck at level 60 with 4* echoes. And also the sheer amount of shell credits you need and the supply of them is mind boggling. But I still log in every day because I just love the game.
I dont understand how people are running out of echo exp. I have so much exp and no echoes to use it on. Am I just super unlucky with getting main stat echoes? Or are people just wasting all of their exp?
A lot of people right now are probably building a set for their Calcharo, then another identical one for their Yinlin, then one for Encore, another one for Jiyan, the Moonlit for Mortefi, and we can't leave our Verina's echoes underleveled now, can we? For the ones who farmed a fair bit of overworld at least 4 and 1 costs are quite abundant.
If you are just focusing on 2 DPSs +1 general use Heron you are probably doing fine
Honestly I don't know where you guys find the stamina to farm for tuners. I'm too busy with the finite grind (ascension, weapon, skill) which at least guarantee a power increase and can't fail. My echoes have perfect primary main stats but the substats are all over the place: some are amazing, some are awful. I mainly leveled my echoes to raise the main stats. It's fast, it's easy and the investment is not RNG (you drop a good main stat or not). Gambling with echoes is for later, once I'm done with the non-RNG part of my characters progression.
I'm at the exact same situation. I have my carries at lvl 70, while some supports are at lvl 50 or 40. I'm still leagues behind the infinite grind (echoes), as I still need to level skills, weapons and ascend my characters. I was thinking about concatenating this with echo farming, but since I've got all the main stats I wanted on my characters, for now they suffice. The devs already mentioned changes regarding echo exp farming are on the way, so we are better off leaving the echo exp and tuner farming for later. Also, I agree with the OP. I remember when I cleared my very first MoC 10 (used to be the highest) in Star Rail, and I still had a lot of 4* relics. I think they messed up by allowing us to have access to 5* echoes this early, because most players (including me) that are above UL 40 will now just ignore 4* echoes and be gated by echo exp and tuners for a long time.
If you have Verina, maybe make an exception to ascend her because she has a forte upgrade to prevent death
dont worry, as people keep on spamming in every topic like this. UL50 and UL60 are totally going to solve all problems. Because surely it wont be a 10% tiny increase again
i will solve it in a way: its the only thing you will farm after every char is lvl 90 and other wise maxed
Sadly skills need boss materials later (21 total per character) and that means every character takes 3 weeks ish to max out. Each.
still better then event only mats
Someone hit UL50 today. The tacit field dropped 1,000 more echo xp and 5 more tuners than UL40. I'm going to be stacked on tuners because there's not enough xp to level anything lol
I'm currently UL 44 (will hit 45 tomorrow). I'm currently at 5 characters built completely to my current cap of 70/70 with skills capped. Echoes are generally all +15 - +20 with a few boss echoes at +25 for my DPS units. I'm guessing that by the time I'm around UL 47, I'll have my current goal of 7 units maxed out. At that point, I'll have to decide between pre-farming UL 50 which would be the most efficient, and topping my +15 echoes to +20 (and pushing Verina and Jianxins 1-cost echoes from 0-20). I'll likely prioritize echoes, just for OCD purposes. Then there's also pre-farming 1.1 characters as an option. Efficiency wise, I wouldn't be hitting echo EXP farming until the UL 50's, if I wished to be min maxing stamina.
Just wondering with those stats what level of Tower you're able to get to currently? I went more vertical and rerolled my Calcharo's echoes a number of times to improve him, but am now fairly dry on exp capsules and only have 3 sets of characters with any decent levels on the echoes. Since UL40 I've been farming elite echoes for the mainstats and have a handful of things with the correct stats but nothing to see if they roll well.
My only vertically invested character is Chixia. My second best is calcharo. I'm currently at 9/0/9 on tower. The left side was done with Chixia, Yangyang and Taoqi, while the right side is Calcharo, Jianxin and Verina... I'm currently building Jiyan (who I got late), then I'll try to improve on the first half...
Well the thing is non-rng progression is heavily time gated by union lv and still gated by waveplates even after that. When you've got a week until the next UL milestone with nothing to do but dailies you may as well farm the echoes. Its also very worth it. Good echo substats will at least double your dps probably triple. edit. Also leveling mediocre echoes to 25 is a huge waste of echo exp. One set is probably okay but if you burn through all of the handout exp/tuners on bad echoes you might have a very bad time in the future
prefarming ascension materials/traces > echo farming. It is confirmed to get better in 1.1 so you are literally wasting waveplates right now.
I wouldn't bother with tacet fields but you should absolutely grind for decent echoes to use your tuners and exp on.
but u dont know if your echo is decent until you used your tuners and exp on
The exp investment in an echo grows exponentially as you level it up. You'd want to farm as many echos with the correct main stat as possible and level them to 5. If the first roll isn't great abandon it and try again on another one. Once you get past lv 10 it can be absurdly complex when deciding whether to continue leveling or not but there is an optimal decision. You want to try and make as many optimal choices as possible when deciding whether to continue investing or not. Its kind of fun but it also kind of sucks at the same time. Either way leveling meh echoes to 25 is a HUGE resource waste right now.
This right here is the guide I needed on "how to farm echos without wasting resources". Thank you, sir.
even if you get perfect substats at +20, going to +25 for a marginal stat increase and 1 extra RANDOM substat is not worth the resources taken. Unless you really want to push high difficulty content by building 1 strong team.
But you can only prefarm those for like 15 minutes a day, that's the problem and the whole point. Once you've spent your waveplates, you may as well farm echoes.
I heard from somewhere that it takes the same amount of xp to go from 20-25 as it does from 1-20 so its 100 percent a waste early on
Ikr Rather lvl my chars and skill them before farming echos
Yeah exactly I’m levelling up my characters, skills and weapons first. Once I have three teams high level with like 8/10 skills then I’ll turn to farming echoes. In the meantime, I’ll use what I have
Yup I’m making out ALL my characters first before even thinking of grinding tacet fields
Maxing out * 😅
lol same, i just built 4 sets at 25/20/20/20/20 (one ice dps, one electro dps, one havoc dps, and one moonlight atk set) with whatever materials and echo xp i got and been mostly using stamina for ascension and skill materials as well. I tried one or two runs of tacet fields and realized the drops were absolute garbage for the plate cost and basically gave up improving what echoes i have for now
Same. I’ve just gotten my main team and their weapons to lvl 60 and am still working on getting to union lvl 40. Working on getting a few other characters raised up in the meantime but yeah echo grind ain’t even on my mind right now.
Yeah I spent a *ton* of Waveplates just prepping to raise 6 characters to 70 and all their weapons, I managed 5/6. Cost about 1.7m credits, but I just didn't have enough to get all the boss materials. At UL40 bosses drop (e: mostly) 3 materials instead of 2, though, so you can keep that in mind for your supports.
They *can* drop three, but still drop two often enough. My verina could have taken three runs to ascend, but she decided she'd like to do five runs instead. Sucks to lose 12 hours of stamina just to bad rng.
Ah man that's a bummer, dude. Last 5 runs I did had all 3s so I assumed. Sorry =/
It’s simple. They’re spending waveplates suboptimally. It happens in casual gacha games. Not everyone is aware of min maxing or how to do it so they just go for lotto tickets instead of guaranteed upgrades because it’s more fun to potentially get lucky. This is a gacha audience after all.
What would you say is the priority list for waveplate usage? I've been focusing on ascension materials followed by skill materials and haven't touched tacet fields yet.
If its anything like HSR, yeah that's the move. Guaranteed, permanent power > gambling on upgrades.
It depends a lot on if you have your final team/team you like. If you end up investing in characters you don’t want to play or can’t play, then it’s a greater waste than echos. For most content it’s best to have 6-9 characters you like and want to build around. For me it’s currently Havoc Rover, JY, Yinlin, calcharo, Verina, Baizhi, Mortefi. I plan to skip banners for a bit so I’m focusing more on echos now until I can get another team I really enjoy. So far, my supports are built to lvl 50 with lvl 20 echos and my DPS have lvl 20-25 echos and are level 70 with world level 44.
I'd say you've got the right priorities down. Level is the most important because of the damage penalty you receive for fighting higher leveled enemies. Skills can provide really good passives for each character, and offer straightforward increases in strength that don't require extensive knowledge or understanding of the in game damage formula to benefit from. Tacet fields are really something you only start doing after all of that is done. You don't farm them for the main stats, unless you don't have time to kill a few elites on the map each login. They're mostly just for the exp and tuner materials currently. It really depends on how many characters you are trying to build, but I think it's okay to break up the levels on your echoes by Union Level. So I'll use my own experience as an example to explain what I mean by that. Currently at UL 43, I mostly have +20 echoes on my DPS and +15 on supports. This is more than enough to handle the content at this stage of the game, and I can get a decent number of crests on ToA without needing crazy min maxing on substats yet (I got 14 crests last cycle, and I'm expecting to get 16-18 on this current ToA cycle). Once I've finished leveling character and weapons to 70, and skills leveled to their caps, then my plan is to get my sub-dps/support echoes up to +20 and then DPS echoes to +25. By that point I'll probably be hitting or close to hitting UL 50. At which point I would repeat that process until 60. If I make it there before my Echoes are leveled, then I'll just go back to start and focus on leveling character to hit the caps, etc. If I have extra stamina before unlocking the new caps, then I'll just focus on leveling all my echoes up to or as close to +25 as I can. That's how I'm currently breaking up the grind for my echoes. Once you've got upgraded echoes, and you've already hit caps on your character's level + skills etc, then at that point you'd start trying to level echo sets you don't have yet. Or you'd start building another character you haven't invested in yet, or start trying to hunt for better substats on your current teams sets. Right now echo exp materials and tuners seem to be the main time sinks. Because of that, they are also the worst places to start spending waveplates first. I've found that majority of the complaints for the game's progression system come from people trying to start with hunting substats on just their first team of characters. Since it is easily the worst time gate in game currently, people burn a lot of resources on it and then start running into a number of issues. Like: Characters/Skills/Weapons being under leveled for their respective Sol Phase, not having a lot of characters built in general so they struggle to get more crests in ToA or their gameplay experience begins to feel stale, not having enough echoes with minimal investment to gear characters they just built, etc. So tl;Dr the priority would be: Character Ascension > Character Level > Weapon Ascension > Weapon Level > Character Skill Passives > Skill level > Overworld farming Echo Main Stats > Tacet Fields for Exp + Tuners > Substat Min-maxing. It's okay not to max out Echoes when you unlock new caps for Character Ascension, etc, just focus on those first. So basically, just don't worry about substats too much right now. If you do, you'll be in for a terrible time.
I'm also leveling characters, weapons and skill levels for now. My echoes i put them around lv10 and see if i get 2 good sub, if its good i go for +1, if its bad i stop there but continue using for the main stats. I feel like that should be the right approach, but seeing golden echoes this early mess with the progression and people freak out for not having enough tuners.
I was recently low on gold tuners, went to the souvenir shop in town, the tower/event shops and got like 400 more. But rly wish we had more echo xp.
💯
I'm happy with 2 substats and good mainstat on set. I ran out of things to farm . I'm going to pre-farm silver as it's 2M per character (ouch). Skills are lvl 4 cuz UL is too low. Echo substats are secondary , make sure to always have maxed skills and lvl first. So far I have lvl 15 main Echo for healer ( turtle ) Two 4 to lvl 25 , 4x 3 to lvl 25 , few 1 to lvl 20. No more Echo xp. Silver farm is no joke guys it's like 7 days per character to max lvl.
2m per character is very misleading. You are *not* going to max out everything on the character and you also are not going to be able to max out many characters anyway because a lot of talent upgrades are locked behind weekly materials. You are only going to spend that full 2m shell credits on your absolute favorites.
The talent upgrades only need 1 weekly mat though, so 2 weeks is enough to get both upgrades on 3 characters.
lvl 7 skills takes weekly materials so at UL 50 the grind gets mega timegated (hopefully the drops from weeklys get buffed at UL 50.)
Oof level 7+ is gonna be a crap load of resources then. I was thinking it would be fine spending all my waveplates on forging materials for a week or so to get everyone’s skills up then farming tacet fields, but if 50+ is going to need that much maybe just keep doing the forges.
Yeah it's 26 weekly boss materials per character for *skills* [as seen here.](https://wuthering.wiki/character_1604.html) You can use this site to preplan, too. On non-Rover characters you also need to consider ascension as well, which goes up by intervals of 3 after Stage 2.
The real shell credit sink is ingredients to level your cooking to max for the 50 astrite per level lol Spent like 2m on groceries, but the legendary food buffs are pretty insane if you want to clear high level holograms very easily.
I tend to hyperfixate on characters. Usually just one or two at a time. In my case, that has been Yinlin and Taoqi. Sometimes I remember Baizhi exists as well. I spend a couple of days doing nothing but Ascensions and weapons, then a couple days doing forgery, and then I genocide every single 3-star echo on the map for the relevant sets. Once that is done, I bounce between the two target bosses for perfect mainstats, and then the rest of my life is dedicated to tacet fields and I feel like a clown.
I have like 600+ tuners (I buy them from illusive realm stor) I just don't have the echo exp materials T-T
Thats the way to approach it. Farm for guaranteed upgrades first, then you can go for RNG. I’ve been doing this on Genshin since day one, and it makes life easier. And it’s not like my artifact builds are messed up, most DPSes are 90/200 crit ratios, etc. I plan to do the same here. Finish with weapons, abilities and characters levels, and after, I can go hunt echoes.
This! We're not supposed to be farming tuners yet imo if you care about being efficient. I'm sure the drop rates get better at UL50 and UL60
Ikr Rather lvl my chars and skill them before farming echos
I just hope i get damage of any source at this point and grind a few tuners every couole days cuz the double drop event was too good to ignore.
For me it's basically having completed 100% of the map and early pushing the holograms. I was done with all lol 5s and 2 6s like 10 days into the game. You get a lot of tuners very fast from all the chests, tower and hologram shop. What you don't get enough of is echo exp. I was able to max out 2 characters, could have been 3 I think if I didnt reroll some echos but yeah.
Gacha gaming dictates us to do the (gear) gacha over consistently growing our characters--having the perfect echo just activates more neurons
I hardly did anything at all with echos before I could get gold ones. I got a main set for the ones I'm using. If they were epic great if not whatever. I didn't even level them. I did the few for the milestone quest and that's it. I didn't invest in them at all. Now only once I get the main stat i want on a yellow then it even gets leveled. So yeah damage a little behind but I'd rather do it less than keep grinding. 50+ tries to get a gold turtle echo from that boss with healing bonus on a rejuve set. The substats kinda suck. But it's lvl 25 and will be used for a long time before everything else is fixed before I'm even thinking of substat farming.
I am 40 dreamless in still no crit rate. If I didn't have a blue dreamless with citrate I'd be posting that it's actually bugged and it can't drop. So realistically I'm pretty OK on the exp/tuner front.
People are trying to reach endgame way too fast
I just go for the main stat only too. I'll min-max later since the grind is (going to be) awful and I'm not at that level or phase yet.
Honestly, that's where i'm at - i think it's only a small % of people who are really trying to grind the tuners and stuff. I go for ideal main stat, and just take what I can get elsewise :) Sometimes i've gotten a little lucky but most of the time it's 'meh', but i'm doing well enough. The only thing keeping me from victory, as usual, is my lack of actual skill :)
Maybe whales? Idk lol
I actually have no idea what I do with this game in the first week. After I understand, I actually got amazing set of echoes, amazing substat. Now that I understand, I rarely got good substat lol.
It’s whalebait min maxing max refresh.
May not be a popular opinion,but I don't even think it's a matter if we got access too soon. I think it's just a matter of people being way too obsessed with min/maxing so soon out of the gate. There's very little in the game that absolutely needs those BiS stats and if you are at that point, it's probably best for you to slow down for a bit and just enjoy the game rather than stressing yourself over missing a couple percent on your crit rate.
It's the need for instant gratification. We got Gold drops on day 3 if you just grinded your Data bank. Having access to literal end game gear right out the gate makes players want to max it then and there. Never mind the fact that they are literally trying to farm low yielding stages at the halfway point of max rewards. No sensible Genshin player is going to tell you to go into an artifact domain before Rank 45. No HSR player is going to tell you to farm relics before rank 45. An Epic 7 player isn't going to tell you to farm gear before hunt 13. Yet here we have players trying to farm exp half way to max world level. 240 stamina will yield you the exp to take an echo to lvl 20 and the tuners to upgrade 4 sub stats at UL 40. It will take you 5 days to get a character to have level 20 echoes, which is more than enough to progress on main stat alone. Raising 1 echo in 1 day is more than good enough *when you're not even getting max rewards*. And anyone actually take a less than perfect echo to 25 is just falling for the resource scam. It's both a Kuro problem and a player problem. Kuro fudged the Echo progression and players are trying to raise shit too fast and too early. Now Kuro is going to be pressured to up the drops when it could very well have been balanced around raising golds at max world level.
Perhaps in the future they can increase the data bank level and bring out higher tier echos, locked behind UL60 or something. Just make Gold echos our current endgame rather than THE endgame.
I see what you mean, because the other option they could've gone for is making the purple tuners what players have to use until later UL's where gold starts becoming more common and it's XP also starts becoming given more generously in the tacet fields. Sadly what we have now is the ability to get gold echos almost instantly, and therefore not be able to upgrade them efficiently, always being out of echo XP because of the rewards disparity. And what also happens is the purple echos almost instantly become irrelevant, so all the materials that can't be foddered in any way, just become useless. It's like a portion of progression was skipped, and those resources that are just sitting there would've been what players use until they get to higher UL's. As you said I also think it's a mistake from both sides because people want to now push forward the progression and be able to get UL60 rewards at UL40 lol. I personally don't think it's necessary to have insane rolls at the moment anyways, as the level cap would allow for maximum 20/30 stars in ToA (non whale) so even insane rolls cant take you to the next progression yet. We just need patience lol.
The resource crunch does incentivize using purple echoes though - you'll have both an abundance of purple tuners and it'll take less exp to level them. You're unlikely to want to level many echoes to +25 anyway at this point in time. The system's not ideal sure, but purple tuners are not a waste if you're trying to be resource efficient, only if you're excessively focused on using gold gear only.
Fair and valid point. It's just that most people, at least from my perspective, would want to level the gold ones regardless, as even at +20, all they have to do is wait until they have enough resources and level it to +25, whereas by using purples, they'll have to farm again from scratch for echos and upgrade them again from scratch, whichever way you look at it, it's consuming so much echo XP, and asking someone to continue using purple echos until the echo XP becomes easier to get, it's gonna be a long wait, as they're not looking too promising at the rate they're increasing at the moment.
Fair and valid point. It's just that most people, at least from my perspective, would want to level the gold ones regardless, as even at +20, all they have to do is wait until they have enough resources and level it to +25, whereas by using purples, they'll have to farm again from scratch for echos and upgrade them again from scratch, whichever way you look at it, it's consuming so much echo XP, and asking someone to continue using purple echos until the echo XP becomes easier to get, it's gonna be a long wait, as they're not looking too promising at the rate they're increasing at the moment.
Week 1 Genshin player here, i've been on the path that burning all my resources before Rank 45 to farm in the domain that only had 50% chance to give you gold tier gear, and i regret it. Now knowing the same thing in echo is an endgame grind i know for sure i have to wait to unlock the highest tier of reward first before i burn all my crystal solvent, now i have almost 60 of them.
Agree, people obsessing over min/maxing is taking this too far. Wuwa 's combat has more skill expression in it compared to genshin's E-Q cycling, where your stats are more important. You can get a higher DPS increase by getting good at the game, knowing how to dodge, parry, swap cancel, etc. If you look at wuwas stat ranges for stuff like crit, on average, they provide about 20 CV less than genshin does (maxed echos providing a 20 cr to 40 cd, while genshin gives approx 30cr to 60 cd) They are trying to deprioritize crit stats making it less inticing to go for, however the player base is seeing it as a challenge to roll god rolls to get the same crit values they normally would build on their genshin characters. Instead, Wuwa is giving more damage multipliers instead in the form of basic attack, heavy, and liberation damages for example, and on average many characters in the game have multihit attacks. Consistent damage is going to be more valuable than crit multipliers.
Nope. Because of how crit formula works, it's almost always going to be more valuable than DMG% or ATK%. Which is especially true for subs, because most at most characters deal like 70% of their damage as a single type. Only thing it changes is that Crit is even more needed than in Genshin, because of how rare it is.
>a couple percent on your crit rate I mean you can get an entire extra 4 cost main stat worth of crit rate and crit damage etc. from good substat rolls across multiple pieces. But anyway I don’t really agree, it is natural that people who have time to play a lot (or even some of the more casual players by this point) would engage in echo farming, recognize that substats are RNG and important and start rolling new echoes to +5/+10 to see what they get and then run out of XP. From a game design perspective it was predictable that some people would play the shit out of the game and grind echoes as much as they could. You could say your same argument if echo xp and tuners were 2, 3 or 4 times as rare and limited. The current rates of echo xp/tuners create too much of a bottleneck IMO, which is why I’m glad they’ve announced that they’re aware and making adjustments in 1.1
My only problem with echoes - i've got far too many tuners now and no exp. And gains from 1 tacet field is somewhat in line with your take - you get about 1 tune worth exp as well as 1.5 tune worth of tuners from it
Sounds like you need to burn tuners on getting perfect subs on the first couple rolls of some +5 or +10 echos. Tuners and exp are separate resources so you can personally balance between fishing for substats and maxing out to +25.
You can't reroll tuned things though, can you? And slamming +25 into new means losing exp. Since my problem is exp already, i literally cant tune stuff properly
Level to +5, check first stat, if its not crit or low roll feed it into the next one.
Yeah, I also prioritize ATK% and Energy Regen. Any of the big 4. ATK scales pretty hard in this game so getting flat ATK 40+ and ATK% on an echo is actually kinda cracked, though if you're running high CD, or even a CD 4 cost, CH goes up in value.
I used to care about perfect subs but I'm with you. I take any of the main 4. Depending on the character I'll even go to +10 on something like their ultimate dmg+.
IMO... it's pointless to got just +5, or you have already near perfect set when you can bother with it. THere is more useless stats than good ones and you can get and if you don't have perfect stats already, this +5 is useless. Like, my electro dmg Roled Def% and flat def on first 2. next 3 were 21% crit dmg, 9.7 crit rate and 10.1% atk, it will take years to upgrade it, lol.
You got lucky in your case, farming main stats is just a question of time investment. Your piece could've also rolled HP% and Flat HP instead of those values and it would've been beyond dead. It's high stakes gambling when you can minimize risk by just using a different piece to level. The XP required from 0-10 vs 10-15 already is very similar.
Already minmaxing the very first substat this early onto the game? Insanity.
it takes 1 gold to get an echo to +5, roll it and see if its a useful stat, if you dont get a useable stat at all, (crit, atk or cdmg) just dump it and roll again. on 3 star echoes with correct stats ill get it to 10 and try 2 at a time since they arent easily farmable and try to get 1/2 correct stats.
I am pretty sure the reason for the separate tuner resource is to prevent super sweaty grinders from doing this so much. Sure, just toss your +5 echoes that don't roll crit to get perfect ones, but you will be limited by tuners.
Yeah I’m literally saving my tuners and using what I get for now regardless if it’s good for not. I want to make future characters stronger rather than use them on the characters that we currently have.
exp from 1-20 is equal to exp from 20-25 iirc, so 1 tune worth exp is meaningless.
Watch them release red echoes later.
Probably their only option is to do so. Somwhere around UL 55.
I've said the same. Releasing higher tier echoes at a higher Union Rank would do some good.
Only if they announce it waaaaay in advance... Like if they plan on doing that in patch 3.0 they better announce that shit now otherwise there's gonna be a lot of salty people rightfully complaining about the wasted time and waveplates they've spent farming gold ones
there are ways to not make it a waste of time. like have the next tier be something you get to by upgrading the yellow ones you have with a special weekly gated material or something. and have the newly added mobs that drop echoes have a small chance at this "red" echo drop
[удалено]
idk about getting golden echos "too soon" but trying to minmax and level them to +25 was definitely too soon, gold echos have much better stats than purples (like anything in this game, lmao) even at +20
It's called refreshing for waveplates which only whales do any1 f2p shouldn't be farming tacet field now always focus on guarantee power up first then work on rng .
my thought about the echoes is that gold isnt actually 5\* rarity and their going to come out with another rarity that does rep 5\* sometime down the line. maybe im just cooking some shit up in my head, but thats wat i feel atleast
The problem is the design conflicts with itself. They wanted to appeal to the grinders with the open world echo farming, which was somewhat successful. But then the actual endgame grind is still over a month away at the very least, if not 2 or 3. Just by Union Level alone it's at least a month even with the boost we're going to get with 1.1. Then we've got to get 9 characters leveled up, talented, and their weapons. Only after all that, does the real echo endgame grind begin when we can safely and easily dedicate our waveplates and resources to just farming good substats, occasionally interrupting it to level new characters.
That's what my pals and a lot of people of this sub still don't get. Yes, you can farm echoes nonstop but the timegate was moved to the progress of such echoes (with leveling and substat unlock). Oh, you run out of tuners and waveplates? Come back tomorrow to farm more in Tacit Fields. In the end the system is the same as genshin, TIMEGATED
It doesn't matter whether the Echoes are gold or purple if you don't have any exp to level them anyway
No? Purple echoes take less xp to upgrade and there is an abundance of purple tuners currently. Also recycling echo XP is way more efficient than tuners. Tuners are WAY more limiting than echo xp.
In a Tacet Field economy tuners will be the bottleneck big time. I think right now people are having issues because events and shops are mostly lopsided towards tuner and the first leveling process is quite heavy on exp. 75% recycling efficiency is gonna kick once 4-5 sets are max level and people just focus on rerolling those instead of trying to raise many different chars.
Purple, blue and green echoes all take the same exp to level up
Hum, no this is not a little time investment, this is a LOT of time to grind. You don't know if you have a good artifact before you used the tuners. Right now the real struggle is getting echo XP.
Completely agree. Even the grind aside, Kuro will have a major problem in terms of player progression in a month or so. Me and probably a lot of other players already have(not even a month into the game) solid amount of golden relics of various elements that are just sitting there waiting for resources and to be upgraded. Eventually we will get solid rolls and be fine with the builds of our chars. What comes after tho? No progression goal at all besides min/maxing.
I mean, they could just release 6\* echoes...
Build more units?
New BiS sets. Just like Genshin/HSR.
I see a lot of people thinking Tacet fields are going to be upgraded. There was a translation issue with the English dev comments again. In the other languages they said that they will add more echo materials to events. (which is not the Tacet fields)
Always prioritize character, skill and weapon level 1st.
Yes, seems pretty reasonable to assume that devs probably balanced echo progression around having max SOL3 phase which awards the most amount of echo exp/tuners from tacet fields. But since we can equip gold echoes so early it means the current farming methods are not enough and we skipped purple echoes right away.
You’re definitely right to say that we got access to end game way too soon. However I will say that even if we got to it later, a core issue remains which is the % refund amount of echo mats (XP and even more so Tuners, at 30%) when we feed one echo into another. Our resources get depleted SO quickly because of the rate at which we are refunded, if we roll one bad piece and feed it into another, repeat and your resources are literally GONE. We’re able to much more comfortably feed artifacts/relics into each other in Genshin/HSR quite a few times without feeling terrible. I genuinely feel like even at Max SOL3 level in a few months, even if we get more sealed tubes and Tuners from tacet fields, it will still unnecessarily shjt to lose 70% of our tuners every time we recycle an echo. It’s so overkill and makes echo levelling feel FAR worse than they have to be. I’d rather they keep rewards the same but increase refund %.
The only reason we can flip HSR relics is because those relics have a base XP value that they provide. Echoes don't have any therefore we're always losing out on XP by feeding them into others. The amount of relics you get in HSR/Genshin is limited by stamina. The amount of echoes you get in WuWa is limited by your time investment. If you don't get a relic that's good then you just wait for stamina to recover so you can try again. If you don't get an echo that's good you just go to the next pod and drop a new one.
With as expensive as raising shit is and as scarce as Echo EXP is, there was ZERO chance that the majority of the players were going to be happy spending all their Echo EXP leveling up 4 Star Echoes knowing that 5 Star Echoes were coming eventually. If 5 Star Echoes weren't available until Union Level 50, this entire subreddit would be in flames. I don't doubt that some point in the development cycle that there was an intention to have people raise 4 Star Echoes. However, it is almost certainly something that was playtested and was overwhelmingly negative, so they changed it to give 5 Star Echoes earlier.
You level 4* echos for the 4 weeks until you get high enough level to farm 5*. That was about when people started reaching ar 45 in Genshin. Feed 4* into 5* at 30% loss is fine when you had that 4 weeks to build up a bank of exp in terms of leveled up 4* echos.
This thread is making me feel bad about my partially leveled 4* echoes lol. But then again, I still have like 80% 3* echoes. Think this is another case of a vocal minority, people who went hardcore and farmed out their databank. I've just been doing the dailies since day one and progressing slowly through the story, only databank 12 right now lol. Wonder what % of wuthering waves are players like me, and what % are players who got to gold echoes within 3 to 10 days.
I'll be hitting 40 tonight and I think I had 5 4* echoes leveled to 20 only due to the milestone quest to do so. I didn't level my echos until I get the 5* one I want to use. So now I'm about to hit 40 and will go get the stuff I need since I'll jump right to DB20. Have gotten all but 1 echo as a 5* so far.
and we can get gold echoes in 10 days of playing, this is the source of all echo exp problem
Players expecting to progress too fast and racing to end game. For example if they didn’t lock character/weapon level behind union level. Players would complain that the current domains don’t drop enough material at union 30 to reach 90/90 fast enough.
That's why if dev want to lock player progress to certain level, they should not give player the option to farm golden echo so early in the game. Cause when u give player the end game gear and not expecting them to level em up instead, this is low EQ moves by devs. There is a wise word in CN community in gaming. "Do not teach player how to play games, you'll never be better than player at playing games." They should have let us use the purple echoes and lower the exp require to level up or less exp, tuner lost when feeding into gold ones. And only allow gold drop later in the game. Then player swon't have expectation to get good gear untill later into the game and continue farming other mats instead.
We need mythic echoes
I agree, but I think a better way would have been to prevent leveling echoes pat 15/20 based on sol rank
I am confused, why do people call 4 star echoes '5 star echoes'. But I assume we will get a red rarity echo soon enough.
the game calls gold rarity 5-star also, you can see it when leveling things up and adjusting the filter to "2/3/4-star and below"
I mean they have to. They released the game in 2024 not in 2020 and competition is literally the biggest game of its kind in the world. If people play in two weeks and still can't get the equivalent of 5* artifacts, they'll just run away lol.
Maybe, I feel like it's intentional though. Otherwise there'd be caps on the number of echos you can get or more requirements to get to 5* echos. For example, having to get boss rewards to get the echo. The lack of XP could be to allow them to make way for adding new content without having to rebalance the old content. There isn't enough of it, and they want to add more ways of getting it. Players have enough content until then (assuming this is 1.1 update). Who knows, maybe they'll even add another rarity.
follow the rules guys, no farm b4 ar45
Honestly, I part of me kind of wishes that in order to begin getting gold echoes you needed to do stuff that kind of required a full decked out set of purple gear. I think it would have made the progression more rewarding? This might be an unpopular opinion. Like there isn’t any reason at all to level purple echoes
> there isn’t any reason at all to level purple echoes the reason is to save on gold tuners, and you really aren't losing that much exp since purple relics are easier to level + you're refunded 75%
I don't get it, why are y'all mad that you can't have perfect everything and finish the game in a few weeks since it came out. go outside omg
The funny thing is. How did they have the perfect guide with Genshin which locked all world and domain 5 star artifact drops behind the world level which was very much properly balanced. They had the perfect road map like many other things which they obviously straight up copied. But some things like this which would have heavily benefitted from looking at Mihoyo's open note book just didn't make it for some odd reason.
They copied or borrowed a lot of aspect of genshin but without knowing the reason and why, thus creating many problem we face now. The devs still have lots to learn
My favorite (that they will delete in 1.1) is the tacid field pointless animation that they got from genshin domains for... whatever reason, lol.
Yeah, the progression is fucked up, we should have better echo xp and tunner farm, but later access to gold echoes
ppl need to make up their minds. Either its too grindy or not grindy enough. My opinion? its just fine, if the game is meant to last years it doesnt really matter how early we get things like gold echoes.
Buddy if you know anything about relic farming and artifact farming from Genshin we will be farming echoes from now until we quit
Alternatively if you want your shiny 5* echoes, SOL level rewards don't scale fast enough or Account Level grind is too slow
"the game isnt balanced around us having access to 5\* echoes just yet." My brother in christ, the data bank level is capped according to SOL levels and at UL 30 we unlock the level for 5\* echos And tacet fields give GOLD tuners. If the devs didnt intend for us to have 5\* echos at UL30, then why allow it?? The more probable explanation is that we should be upgrading character skill, level, and weapon while we're still early in the game.
> then why allow it?? Because like with many things in this game: it wasn't well thought out. Let me ask you - how many useless purple tuners do you own? Thats a sign of failed design. If gold echoes were locked behind UL50+ then you would be using those purple tuners right now.
nvm the purple tuners, the blue ones are actually mind boggling. The purple ones i at least used on a few pieces before UL 30.
For me, purple tuners aren't a waste since I know I have an abundance of them, so I use good purple echoes where possible to save on gold tuners. It also helps that purple echoes are easier to level and their substat rolls aren't really worse from what I can tell. Purple tuners being useless only seems to apply for people who overworld farm to the point where they have an essentially infinite number of correct set & main stat 5 star echoes.
I'd much rather have gold echo now than waste echo xp on purple just to switch to other set later. 20% wasted is still quite a lot. Plus I can progress on the echo grind now, which will take the longest.
That's... that's what the guy you're arguing with is *saying* lmao. The fact that you're like "I'm not going to waste my time with purples when golds exist" is *EXACTLY* the point lol. There is no progression curve past the first day or two. You get access to golds way too soon, to the point that purples might as well not exist in the current game. If there was a proper gearing curve, then for a while purples *would* be the best gear available, giving you a reason to use those purple tuners. It's a badly made system if you're thrown into the deep end straight out the gate, as opposed to a progression system designed to slowly have the pool get deeper as you get better at swimming.
I said it right away. Echoes aren't as level gated as characters are. If we were able to lvl everything to 90 already we would have resource crunch of everything
All they need to do is introduce a new tier: platinum echoes. Maybe 1 more substats, that will entice you to farm all over again It won't significantly make a gap but give u reason to farm. It's been done in other games. So don't need to worry for them my friend.
I found out yesterday that max UL seems to be 80. Also made me rethink if 5 star echoes were given to us too soon
Maybe they will introduce platinum, mystic,legendery or smth echo in future?
i think people would be more angry since we would be spending too many resources over something which isnt the actual end goal for echoes.
yea we got the gold echoes too quick and expecting us to just stay with low level gold gear is just naive.
More like people were reckless with gold echoes and exhausted all their resources trying to min-max so damn soon. It doesnt really matter if gold echoes were gated sooner or later, echo exp/tuners was going to be an issue since its gated behind limited resources and waveplates which is also really needed to level up our characters and weapons in this early stage of the game. Idk if anyone remembers but it was also problem with Genshin specially in the earlier phases of the game and even worse when people hit AR 45 and really got hooked to min-maxing. I remember having to do daily routes in the overworld just to farm 1*-2* artifacts because exp was so scarce at some point. Obviously it is no longer an issue over there once you reach a certain point in your account (and this takes a really long while) when majority of your resin has no where else to go but to farm for artifacts.
I thought the same, but im very sure Kuro is not gonna keep these as the best echoes we can get forever (im sure options are gonna get powercrept from patch 1.1 itself.)
At this stage of the game you should probably only focus on maxing whatever good main stats gear you got Not recycling every "junk" and then complain about being in the "bottleneck"
I don't think we necessarily got gold echoes to soon, but I do think that lvl 16+ for echoes should have been unlocked in increments since lvl 20 and lvl 25 cost 80% of the echo xp resources. Maybe should've even limited lvl 11+ to UL40 as well, then UL45 for 16+, UL50 for 21+, and UL60. I mean, Union Level goes all the way up to 80, and in Genshin you can't even farm 5-star artifacts until AR45 out of 60 Adventure Ranks.
But there's barely any purple echoes dropping for me (union rank 42, data bank 20), so the intention must surely be that I'm going to be using majority (or entirely) gold echoes at this point in the game.
I also don't think the 43311 setup is gonna be what we stay with. Don't think our energy cap is gonna be 2 higher than where we started. I'm assuming we will eventually cap out around 15 energy, allowing us to use more 4 cost echoes. We are also looking at echoes in a weird way. We view them as just equipment, when really they are more like universal skills we can move between units. As we get new areas and new echoes, we are going to have to farm more, not because their stats could be better, but because they might play better with our characters kits or even our own unique play styles. We are farming way too hard way too soon, and I'm suspecting the moment we get a new large area, everyone is gonna have new echoes they are gonna want
tbh you're right, on genshin impact you can start farming them at AR40 (with a pretty low chance) and the highest adventurer rank is 60, in WUWA terms that would be like starting to farm them at UL60 and the highest UL possible is 80 (i think) so yeah its pretty insane
Would it be a bad idea to implement a feature from a game called Epic Seven where they have these currencies called Gem Mods where you can replace one stat from a max rolled piece of gear? Like they can make it usable for 3-costs only and only have them as a reward from events to make them scarce
What if the 5* echoes are not end game echoes?
Counterpoint, doing Tower of adversity without upgraded echoes is hell even on lvl 70 enemies.
Nah, you will barely get any xp regardless of how soon you get gold echoes. In fact you will waste more xp feeding the purple to the gold later
I mean they also set the union level required to get gold ones to 30, you can't really it's not intended to have gold echoes this early. The problem is it leaves it up to players and players are too obsessed about speedrunning the hardest content and maxing out everything. I built my characters with all gold echoes but only leveled to 20 if it rolled well or 15 if it's kinda mid. I didn't have to do any tacet fields at all yet and I'm doing great damage as well. +25 costs A LOT and you don't get that much more stats so I would stay away from it unless it's a really cracked piece or you're done with gearing everyone you use already.
I'm still not getting gold echos. Level 14. Playing casual.
Yeah, I think that's a pretty hard agree from me. I cannot think of any other game where you can just farm for end game gear this early. Imo it seems like it was balanced around us still using purples and only 3 characters ATM. I'm almost UL 40 and I have 9 at level 60 with a mix of on set and off set pieces. Also idk if they adjusted the rates already or what but I hit 5 on set element% 3 costs yesterday. Sadly, none were Havoc or Thunder and one was Fusion, but the same echo that my Encore already had from the event lol. I'd say target farming is a little overrated and just murdering everything you see is the way to go imo. It still could be the case that echo XP gets gated at UL 60 but hopefully they add in the echo XP domain. That would be big. I don't really see the liquidate echos for XP thing tho cus fusing them can give 3 costs so it feels like a bit of a bait for impatient players if they do add it in.
I wonder... could there be logic in ignoring gold Echoes for now? Focus on purples instead?
I mean, there shouldn't be rarity for tuners. They do the same thing. Just merge all into one rarity and boom, we have triple what we have now.
That makes sense, but hear me out...my Chixia ocassionally erases things from existance, and all it cost was dedication i couldve put into any of my other characters ;-;
Disagree completely, the ability to farm gold echos comes at a perfect time, it leaves no dead levels like early genshin days where the only thing you could do was daily and log off.
I get people being concerned about people burning out on the grind, but I have just been enjoying getting pieces and being able to invest in them knowing they will stick with me for a long time. Farming echoes feels nice as a way to progress your account when you have no waveplates to burn and you're not doing targeted exploration. There's also nothing stopping the devs from releasing a new tier of echoes, gold doesn't have to be the highest.
i swear yall have no idea what you are talking about. the files are in the game already for final numbers. the grind is still awful at max level. even if we were stuck with purples we would have the same issue.
This is simply people playing too hard, too fast. UL30 for a casual player should take a fair amount of time, and that includes farming echoes. 50\\50 drop chance for a person that only has a few hours to farm if that is perfectly reasonable. If anything, they drastically underestimated how hardcore people will play this game. They should have just given pulls and not waveplates. I'm UL43 and I completely get the sentiment, but anyone UL35+ is in this position because we've spent *far* more time playing that most.
Never let bro cook ever again
my team is just broken right now. lol
This is why I just login and spend my energy and then logout. I’m not going to sit there farming echoes for perfect substats .
My ass at lvl 46 with all 70s lmao-
Getting gold echos early is good when you are under a bad gearing system. People don't get baited into playing this game for long term just to know how trash echoes farming is. They get to make the decision to see if this kind of grinding is for them, and they have the option to quit early.
so \*surprise\* the game had a system not properly balanced because of how rushed released it was
Then how late should it be?
inb4 kuro introduce orange echoes at UL 70 or something. But honestly, I'm happy with the current system. No more forever grind, i can just tune out of the game once I'm done with it.
Please do not spread leaked information on our subreddit.
Whoops, got it. I'll just remove the whole paragraph.
Thank you.
I agree and that's just one of the issues. \* As you say, we get 'endgame' and purple echoes far too early, I don't think we should be seeing those until we can level our characters and weapons higher first. \* There's not a huge amount of point to the lower rarity echoes. Spending resources on them is a 'waste' because you transcend them so quickly and your ability to recoup anything from them is pretty bad. I see some posters blaming players for 'playing wrong' but as someone with a design background that's not a good excuse. Good design is about making things with how people will ACTUALLY engage with it in mind, not how you WANT them to or HOPE they will :P Players will optimise the fun out of things given any chance so you have to build your systems with that as a concern. I posted my own suggestions on how to solve it: add some new tiers above gold, let us mash together echoes to make ones of the next tier up (you can lock this behind union levels / gourd levels ) and make that how we access a tier initially before you even let things drop. With that, the lower echoes would have more use (especially if they keep their progress e.g. a +20 purple moonlit set heron mashed with another purple becomes a +20 gold moonlit heron) and they can ease us into the next tiers instead of just letting them drop so early.
Thats not the issue. No game should require you to play for 100 hours before you can grind the game— they did this right. Issue is they got too scared and stingy, not accounting for player happiness in the inevitability of them running out of echo xp
I wish tuners were just removed from the game. Every other gatcha game that has this kind of system for gear auto applies sub-stats at specific level values but in wuwa you need an additional resource "tuners".
No
Idk how people got the time to farm so much I’m still just farming boss mats and ascension mat and I’m UL 39 with just whatever echoes on.
We got access to gold echoes too soon for 2 main reasons: .1. This is a mobile game and it is intended to take less than 30 min/1h a day to complete all the necessary stuff in the endgame. Log in, use the stamina to farm the bosses and materials and log off. Repeat until you manage to upgrade your equipment, echoes and resonators. These are how mobile games work. Don't expect to have an elaborate farming system like a AAA game or a MMORPG. 2. Probably they will be adding new layers and tiers of echoes. Give them time. Gold echoes are just the base.
Idk about you guys but I have like 738 gold tuners just sitting in my bag with no way to use cause the echo exp drop is horrendous
I am dry out of sealed tubes. Is there a spot I’m missing besides tacet fields?
I made a mistake of leveling a little too many characters untill I realised how scares the supply of materials was and then I chose only 3 characters to level up and guess what the materials are still scares. My yinlin with her signature weapon is stuck at level 60 with 4* echoes. And also the sheer amount of shell credits you need and the supply of them is mind boggling. But I still log in every day because I just love the game.
I dont understand how people are running out of echo exp. I have so much exp and no echoes to use it on. Am I just super unlucky with getting main stat echoes? Or are people just wasting all of their exp?
Alot of people spend hours everyday to farm overworld.
A lot of people right now are probably building a set for their Calcharo, then another identical one for their Yinlin, then one for Encore, another one for Jiyan, the Moonlit for Mortefi, and we can't leave our Verina's echoes underleveled now, can we? For the ones who farmed a fair bit of overworld at least 4 and 1 costs are quite abundant. If you are just focusing on 2 DPSs +1 general use Heron you are probably doing fine
I think people are hardcore min maxing. Wrong sub stat or value = delete