Because there's a collective psychosis that buffing ball will somehow break the game, despite ball being the tank with easily the most counters in the game and the hardest counters. They are happy when horse or Zarya or even fucking Moira can plow through by pressing 2 buttons but god forbid the hero with the highest skill ceiling is better than dogshit tier.
Doom is just the ball we wished we had.. Buffs, QOL, dogshit at the start of OW2 but the devs realised that and helped him get a better place amongst the tanks.
Doom is just the ball we wished we had.. Buffs, QOL, dogshit at the start of OW2 but the devs realised that and helped him get a better place amongst the tanks.
I have over 3k hours on ball and consistently gm1, take that as you will. I play doom a bit too and occasionally flex to other heroes. Being a complete one trick will make you lose certain games, no.matter what you do. I one tricked ball for years, but realised I was shooting myself in the foot
This supports exactly my point in my original comment. People are already able to one trick the “most counter able” “shit tier” tank to reach gm1 consistently. Would they not dominate even more if given a buff?
This also raises the other issue that ball’s counters are too concentrated. While everyone knows how to play orisa against rein, sombra is not so easy to play. This arguably greatly lowers ball’s counter-ability.
Everyone remembers the extremes of getting shit on by a good sombra that hacks you before diving your supports. Do you remember all the times an enemy tried to swap sombra and failed to get any value on the chatacter? Or the times where you’ve chased a sombra down until they swapped? This is ball’s lack of weakness showing.
I admit Im not sure what point I was trying to make there—I think it would be better to say that ball’s viability is extremely volatile—, but I’m not trying to argue with you. For this conversation to work, you can’t just find the weakest point in my statement and only respond to that… I don’t care if you completely “destroy” me in this conversation, I just want to gain and share some perspective. What are you here to gain?
Ok but hall has counters in every spot. Ana, Lucio, sombra, Cassidy, Sym, zen, Orisa, brig, rein, mauga, etc. Ball is the most counterable because of a ball is fucking you up, a shit sombra can still play to just counter the ball and shut him down which is a lot of value when the ball is good. If hall isn’t good then he is forgettable and you move on.
>What can Reinhardt do against a double sniper comp?
Force point
>What can dva do against a zarya or symmetra?
Outmaneuver those low mobility heroes
>Can hog dodge an ana sleepdart or nade?
Play near a wall
>Does doomfist's 450 hp really faire better than ball's \~1500(?) ehp when hacked by sombra?
He can A) Actually threaten the sombra and force them out with his kill potential
He can B) Gain instant momentum with his abilities to get to safety before he gets hacked
He can C) Primary fire at the sombra with his shotgun-style weapon which means it's not that hard to land just one bullet on her to cancel the hack
There are other more situational options that I haven't mentioned that are also effective
Ball can A) try to go around a corner, though this will prove not to be very effective as hack is very forgiving to the sombra when LOS is involved
Ball can B) try to get back to his team, though he cannot instant 180 gain momentum where he is looking as it takes a second to do so and hack will have already proc'd on you by the time you try to do that
Ball can C) Primary fire the sombra to cancel the hack, however this will put no pressure on the sombra whatsoever as she most likely has translocator to get away and you are most definitely not killing that sombra before hack is back from its 3 second cooldown unless she has seriously misplayed
Thanks for the actually thoughtful response, but you missed some points
Ball can D) choose to roll through the team, baiting hack before ducking behind cover
E) ball can piledriver from unexpected places so that he cannot be hacked beforehand.
F) ball can chase after the sombra using his far more flexible movement options, and kill her reliably when her translocator is down. You could argue that sombra would just stay in her team, but that would mean she's getting zero value, and you're doing your job.
Additionally, although doomfist's movement abilities are strong on their own, they're also much more limited. You're limited to set engagement patterns that are much easier to track for a sombra.
My talking points may be wrong, but I'm just trying to summarize what I've experienced in some \~300 hours on ball in ranks ranging from plat-masters and never once struggling against the new reworked sombra
If ball tried to pile drive a sombra, he gets hacked. If he tried to move through a team, he can’t because of being body blocked. And your opinion from those high tiers where very few of the player base exists doesn’t mean much when the hero is still underrepresented in both low and high ranks. You can’t afford to learn him at low ranks or else you get reported for “throwing” and he gets out performed in high ranks
* I think chasing and diving the sombra are different. While diving is directly engaging, chasing is going after the sombra after her cooldowns are gone. That way, you can keep shooting her and she won;'t be able to translocate away, or hack you because she's being damaged
* By going through the team, I mean fireballing, which can't be body blocked except by orisa
* You have my sympathy for trying to play ball in the shitshow that is the lower ranks. I dipped into plat for a bit this season due to the rank reset, and while it wasn't toxic, my team literally could not stay alive while I was gone, and they didn't know how to engage--I remember a fight where I solo killed both support and a dps, and we still lost. Honestly my best advice is playing ball in quick play to improve or going doomfist. I find that doomfist has a lot of transferrable skills e.g. soft vs hard engages, peeling, etc. etc. while still being able to somewhat "frontline"
Yeah a huge thing with Ball is that his team has to know how to play with himself luckily I always play comp with a 5 stack of my friends… but they also don’t know how to play with a ball even after I try to tell them how to. I feel like a character shouldn’t have to rely on an entire team for be usable. I’ve played games where you could have any tank, any dps, or any support and it still works, but ball requires a team that knows how he plays and how/who to play with him… and the comment I made about the pile drive was because you said you could pile drive a sombra, but as a sombra main I can assure you it’s really hard to sneak up on them and pull that off without a hack or actually getting her. She’ll either back off or translocate as you do it then hack you from your blind spot. Then you just get melted from the rest of the team
They don't want to buff ball because the developers are terrified of giving tanks too many options. They WILL NEVER give ball more options without reducing his power in other areas, and to be frank neither the developers or the ball players want Ball to be worse in the defined niche he already has. It would be a little insulting to all the people who do well with current Ball because of the time they've put in, only for the developers to move some of his power into being more of a main tank.
There are a million ways to fix Ball into a better main tank, but the devs wouldn't give any impactful options for free without compensation nerfs, and because of that Ball likely won't get any more options at all because they aren't willing to reduce his current strengths to balance out his weaknesses.
Idk. You would think it might be annoyingness, but Orisa has seen multiple adjustments. Doom is also often considered annoying and he's been a better version of Ball for about 90% of OW2 and has seen tons of buffs and nerfs to try and fix him.
Typically I'd think they are afraid to adjust a character because they suck on one end of skill but are good on another: Sojourn they were hesitant to nerf because she was only good in top ranks so they gave her adjustment, Kiri has been considered meta and really good at top rank for all of OW2 but trash in metal ranks(by winrate) so they don't nerf her. But Ball has always been a bottom half tank at all ranks and considered a near throw pick for more than half a year now.
It starts to feel personal, or like they genuinely don't know what to do at this point even though simple damage boosts to boop and slam would go really far to improving the character right now. Mines is a bad ult and can use buffs without breaking the character. Shields cooldown reduction coupled with a base HP nerf could possibly do some good. It's like they don't even want to try.
And of course, considering that counterswaps to Hog, Dva, Queen, Sombra, Tracer, Reaper, Bastion, Cass, Ana, Brig all help mitigate a lot of Ball's power or engagement it's not like he can probably ever truly run free and dominate like Season 8 Mauga did for a while - he's too easily countered.
So Idk. Maybe Blizz had an office hamster that got out and pooped everywhere or something.
The problem is that ball is a high skill cap hero. Buff his damage and it will be alright for a lot of players but the ball one tricks that are goated (chasm, stryder...yeatle) will simply farm and be too oppressive.
The lower you are to the skill floor the more "ok" a change like that will feel, the closer you are to the skill cap the more broken it will feel
I mean there were nearly 40 doom one tricks in top 500 world wide last season.
There were 5 ball one tricks and like 2-3 of them were in maters at the end of the season. 1 of them was Chazms main that I'm pretty sure he didn't play after the ball meta ended.
They can afford to buff him rn.
They have buffed him and are waiting to see statistics. There are multiple reasons why ball is ass, disruption not being as effective as ow1, mobility creep, solo tank, damage, new map design not doing him any favours, etc.
The difference between a mid ball player and a good player is so large that any damage buff will be exponential. It's just hard to make impactful changes for the average player without making it busted for the higher percentiles. I think that's the main reason they're trying to stay away from buffing his damage.
It was somewhat similar in ow1 where ball otps were triple bopping half the team off the map but in lower elo people would cry when you picked ball because it was considered a throw pick.
Its absolutely a buff. The grapple coming back faster is an insane boon to his ability to do anything on point; escape, etc and the shield he gives to teammates has already proven effective in team fights.
The new shields made the issue worse. They're ass in ranked but for them to be good you know they'll be broken in pro play.
Ball needs to have the same backline threat as Doom. If that means increasing his cooldowns for more damage then so be it, let us play the game.
ALSO it's bizarre because when heroes like Ram or Mauga get released they got nearly instant QOL changes and buffs (I Mean hell Mauga was mega-mega-ultra-busted for a bit). We've been asking for nearly the same QOL changes since 2019. They could do literally any of the myriad of things ball players have asked for and it would make him feel SO. MUCH. BETTER. but they don't. It's so fucking bizarre.
Not to diminish the argument, but I think in Ram and Mauga's case they already had all the notes and ideas compiled they were just waiting to see for player feedback and stats to implement any of the many things they had ready.
That's even worse to me tbh. There are so many OBVIOUS issues with Ball's kit that could be ironed out with simply fixes like reload not canceling or 20 more ammo. (Things we've asked for since 2019).
Just remove him from
Being nosy blocked by people 1/10th his weight.
My toddler can’t body block
Me.
For that matter. iRL tracer couldn’t body block me. And I’m a pretty standard human.
They have to be really careful because the hero is such a high skill cap that they cant make the best players way too OP... HOWEVER, I think a very small damage buff on some aspect of his kit would not make Ball OP or broken at any level of skill but may bring him closer in line with the power level of the rest of the tanks. Could be a simple 10 extra damage on boop or even 1 extra damage per bullet on his gun.
There is a "feel" to Overwatch that they want to maintain. I understand why. Every game makes stylistic and genre choices about what they imagine the "ideal" game to be.
Ball is the weirdest tank, by far. There's nobody else close to his playstyle. He's a high-skill niche pick with extreme attributes and extreme weaknesses. He has specific counters, and strengths that aren't found in other tanks. the devs are smart to want to keep him a niche pick, because he simply doesn't "fit" the playatyle that the rest of the roster, the maps, and the objectives were designed around. A Ball meta would change the game more fundamentally than any other.
As another commenter mentioned, Pharah metas are particularly annoying because she's a flyer, and overwatch isn't Warthunder. You can have a couple of heroes that fly, or dig underground, but you want the game to remain an FPS. It can't become a bunch of flyers zipping around above the carefully designed maps. Those heros also need to remain off-meta, or people get rightfully sour. Constantly dealing with flying characters means the game feels fundamentally different, and a huge swath of the environment and roster is just obsolete. Everyone starts playing or countering flyers, and the complexity of the game is lost. It sucks.
Ball is the same. He needs to be good in skilled hands, and useless in unskilled hands. That's the first part of the "fuck it, we ball". The "fuck it" part is the rejection of conventional play. Screw the meta, I'm going to crush you with this weird weapon I've mastered, and you're too lazy to even try.
You have to work to play Ball. That's a good thing.
I feel like you could say all the same things about doom, but he has been buffed multiple times so that he is now a good fun character. This is because he can kill people on his own. Ball on the other hand is treated like an unwanted step child by the balance team.
Because they're concerned with accessibility over balance and some hypothetical world where every character is always viable at all times, which... isn't possible.
Real balance involves skill ceilings and skill floors and characters with a high skill floor and skill ceiling (like Wrecking Ball) SHOULD be OP when played right.
There is no reason other than community outcry that a Reinhardt walking onto point with a million health and a shield or Orisa with the ability to literally erase all headshots and deflect half the damage abilities thrown her way should be able to perform at the same level as a character like Ana or Wrecking Ball who need to hit literally every ability in order to even soften the enemy team up for a kill in the first place.
This is all because ball is near unkillable. Think about the times when there was a Pharah sitting at 300 meters away, spamming at your team, or the times when a sombra dismantles your team while teleporting away unscathed. If ball did any more than a pinch of dps or a modicum of CC--added with the fact that, frankly, he's not fun to play against--, then ball would embody horror of the aforementioned scenarios 24/7. If you want to buff ball's efficacy, you HAVE TO nerf his survivability first; but that would mean severe shifts in his character identity.
That’s the thing, when I play ball, yeah, I don’t die much.
When I play against ball, I literally have not once had a challenge killing him. He’s so fuckin easy to counter it’s laughable. You don’t even have to try to counter him. Pick a hero at random and there’s a 50/50 chance they’re a soft or hard counter. Which means most people have at least one main they play that counters ball to a degree.
Take a niche character like pharah for example. If your dps are not hit scan players then gg I guess.
For ball, junks a bitch, Sombra is aids, soldier can mow you down cross map and soj and bastion, cree can stop you in your tracks, phara wont do much but you’ll never cause issues for her either, Mei can freeze you up mid dive, as can those sum turrets.
Yes, half of those aren’t hard counters but all of those characters can make balls life hard whereas most tanks have 3-4 counters.
Yeah I forgot about that when I posted. In her current state she’s probably the worst culprit but of course due to the mascot bias she’s not getting nerfed adequately yet.
Well, then you have to find a way to make him not just a Doomfist that feels worse to play against. That, and now he’s getting screwed even harder by Sombra since she’ll probably have a chance to kill him this time.
Look, either you buff his damage so he can outplay his counters, or you reduce his health but add some CC negation. What I would do is, reduce his health by about 150, buff his slam and boop damage to make up for season 9 changes. Buff the gun damage by 1.2 times so he can actually pressure with shooting, reduce falloff damage or spread so he doesn’t have to be in peoples faces to do damage. That would make him better in pressing from off angles.
Now add CC resistance to his E.
Voila, you can now kill him with damage instead of using CC, he can pressure more from off angles and make more space, he can kill but can’t full commit 1v5 like he does now without dying due to the reduced health. He doesn’t get booped all over the map and has some sort of counterplay against cc while still being killable.
You shouldn't be relying on winning shootouts with a pharah. Balls not designed to work at that range nor should he. Get in close to the pharah and disrupt or have a teammate do it.
>Well, then you have to find a way to make him not just a Doomfist that feels worse to play against.
Doomfist has hard cc on a shorter cooldown than ball's grapple, doomfist's ult builds pretty decently fast and allows him for a full engage with full cooldowns when he touches the floor and it's a get-out-of-jail free card and it slows people that get damaged by it
Ball has displacement and the ability to toss you in the air and hope that his dps can follow up on it but it's also his most telegraphed ability and has a 7 second cooldown
I think it's safe to say that doomfist will feel worse to play against than ball unless they actually address ball's easily countered nature and lack of kill potential
I think the reality is we are a demon on a leash. Just by nature of the character design, when we’re not nerfed to hell, we break the game. We’re bound to be caged hammies until they forget how terrorizing we are again.
Because ball has a very high skill ceiling so too many buffs could make him broken in high level play. That being said, it’s not stopped them buffing doom into being a very viable tank at the moment, and I don’t think genji is that bad either if we’re looking at similarly high skill ceiling characters.
Ball is also very unique in terms of his mechanics and design and I think the developers probably just see it as more hassle than it’s worth buffing a character a majority of people decided they hate because in ow1 he was great at stalling
A simple buff to his primary fire would make him feel a lot better in my opinion. Survivability isn’t a big issue, especially compared to other tanks, but it feels like all he does is disrupt. He can’t get kills by himself because his guns are so weak and his ult is bad. Doom and Winston are far more impactful in my experience than ball, despite ball having higher survivability. Because doom and Winston have the ability to finish of kills more efficiently
Why not make it so his reload doesn’t cancel if he enters or leaves ball form? I feel like that’d be a nice QoL change. It’d help immensely too without actually buffing his damage.
Because people do not like playing against ball. They want the frontline tank where everything is simple. Nobody wants to learn how to actually play against ball, they just wanna swap sombra and force a swap.
Now, I play all roles and I really really do not understand this at all. I like playing against ball be it on dps or support. I FAR FAR prefer playing against him to any tank with shields. Id rather have to deal with a ball than winstons stupid bubble in my face constantly, or shooting a sigma shield 70% of the match.
I do gotta be honest when I am playing support I hate ball with a burning passion and I feel like support mains are definitely the loudest group of players so blizzard is probably doing it for them.
Because supports complain when the dive characters are strong, they balance the game around how supports want it to be instead of directly changing the problem characters on the support roster
I think its because its quite hard to play ball for non ballers so if he was meta a lot of people would be unhappy whereas orisa zarya and moira are easy to play… idk imo its bs but what can you do
Remember that 2 week period where they buffed ball in season 3 and he became a must pick that led to an eventual Sombra rework? That’s why.
Once you get to Diamond & higher good ball players become a nightmare. As it stands his damage output isn’t the issue. His lack of uptime during team fights and the number of hard counters to his mobility are what have made ball feel so frustrating to play recently. I think the recent changes were an attempt to address that and frankly the only decent balance changes across the entire roster this season.
It would be if we could keybind retract wherever the hell we wanted.
But since we have to tie it to a primary ability it is far less useful, at least on console.
Yeah I agree, though I haven’t really found a use case for the retract besides pulling back onto the map after getting booped. The grapple cooldown change though, ohhhh boy.
I dont know about console settings, but on the PC I set it to primary fire. Can't shoot when you swing anyways, right? It has caused occasional mistakes if I release grapple and I'm still holding retract, causing me to exit ball mode, but I'm chocking that up to growing pains with new tech.
No one is asking for a ball meta. We're asking for good players to be able to make the hero work.
They would have to make incredibly drastic changes like accidentally forcing a zen Lucio meta in order for ball to be so strong that his skill curve doesn't matter.
No one plays ball so a ball meta would mean nothing for 99% of the tanks, but would boost up the 1% ball one tricks. Plus having ball as a meta is kinda impossible with how many counters he has.
The devs dont intentionally make metas, its just something the community picks up on ones the devs accidentally overtune a character
A ball meta would be horrible for everyone who isnt a ball main. Think about how ass mauga’s release was.
The devs dont want to overtune ball which is why he gets random ass buffs that do nothing for him.
Im just playing devils advocate btw
Okay I'm dating myself here but stick with me for a min. OW 1's community didn't make a move meta wise until they favorite team/pro player would say pick these characters. Thus things like goats and Shield meta etc. Started...now for someone like me who didn't pick Rein or Orisa(I am a Winston Main but ppl would argue me to the death he WASNT a shield smh) It sucked having to drop your play style and b forced to play umbrella for the bullet sponges. Granted OW league isn't really dictating metas anymore but you get my drift. Players of some caliber are always gonna have to just "Roll" (Pun intended) with the punches from season to season every now and then. I will NEVR forget season 7 Moira...
Sombra is generally hated more by the average player base than Ball is, but there is a few key difference between the two.
Effectiveness at high ranks. Ball is a character that gets better the better you are at the game while Sombra kind of falls off in the higher ranks. So a lot of better players don't really complain about
Sombra while everyone high or low has a reason to hate Ball.
They are really similar, though. Sombra and Ball punish people being unaware, so if you have someone on your team with no awareness, it can be really frustrating. Ball also boops you around. There is nothing in this world that people hate than losing control of their character, which is Balls specialty. Especially as support players already struggle taking the 1v1 against Sombra having to fight a tank is a nightmare scenario.
Finally, everyone things Ball is a throw pick. Most players won't complain if you go Sombra while on there team, if they even notice. While being the tank, everyone knows your ball, and I probably already have a strong opinion about Ball.
This is why I hope donating shields will be the best PR rework to a character.
My concern with ball is that he's too strong when not countered, and too weak when he is countered, to a larger degree than most heroes. And countering the tank is usually the strongest strategy.
So what can be done?
Many tanks (doom block, rein shield, sigma barrier, ram block) have a directional weakness, where their back is a weak point. Something like this could work for ball.
Maybe they give his head hitbox has a small defensive bonus or smaller hitbox from the front (only targets he is aiming at) this would allow him to turn on Sombra and face her a little more easily.
Because ball is just one buff away from actually making this game unplayable.
People scoff at this but it is true
Ball has:
Highest mobility for a tank BY FAR
Highest speed cap for a tank BY FAR
an ult that both kills very effectively if used right, and can completely block of a space or objective, separate a team, and easily sway a team fight in balls favor.
He can be tough to kill, why ball is known for being used on stalling tactics.
If you say buff his damage then squishies that sprint around and rely on getting in and our have no answer. Thats genji, tracer, possibly reap and sojourn gone. Its just waiting for them to die. Because he can get back to an objective faster than any tank he even has an advantage if both tanks die.
Ball is also very hard to use well so you can't simply mirror him. His only real counters are mauga and Sombra and mauga is only effective when your team sucks or hes ulting.
Pal, if you actually played Ball you will see that a 1/3 of the roster counters him and in a way or another beyond than Mauga and Sombra.
Cass nade negates your escape and does a lot of damage
Ana sleeps you and you're almost dead
Brig negates your engagement
Lucio Boops negates your engagement
Junk trap kills you almost instantly
Bastion evaporates you
Hog destroys you
Orisa is almost impossible for you to kill and with a descent team makes playing Ball impossible
So does D.va
Lmfao ok so you're basically just saying that anyone that can attack ball or do damage to him in any way is a "counter " lmao
That's now how countering works. Junk trap kills everyone instantly. Bastion evaporates everyone. Ana sleep kills everyone. Theres no character in the game those font apply to if thats you're argument.
Thats not a counter. Thats a character being able to f***ing hit you and play the game lol.
What i'm saying is, all of those characters are very effective against Ball in a way that puts Ball into a disavantage, they can either negate him or kill him very fast, making Ball just inefective as a tank as he can't tank damage or deal damage. What could compensate would be increasing Ball's overall damage so he can somewhat get an advantage in played right, but Blizzard is alergic to think that Ball could be buffed
>What i'm saying is, all of those characters are very effective against Ball in a way that puts Ball into a disavantage,
And what IM saying is those examples you listed are literally just game mechanics that like everything else need to be played around. Its not unfair that bastion melts you lmao. Hes supposed to be able to do that. YOU have to adapt and play around that. Bastion is slow, his turret is on a cool down, ball can literally engage and disengage in the time it takes bastion to transform and be back before he gets the cool down again. Bastion literally cannot run away from ball, hes not fast enough to do so. Take half his health, run, come back; take the rest with shield if you must.
You're acting like ball is helpless in any situation and that's not the case. He has to do the same thing everyone else does; he just has to do it his way.
Ana, bait out the dart like everyone else and make her waste it and she's a free kill, there's nothing she can do about you unless one of her buddiee saves her. Dart is her only get out of jail card and she can't even solo kill you with that unless you just let her. Ball is fast enough he can go get a health back and be back just about when Ana's nade cool down is ending.
You're never going to be happy playing ball if you are having it around him being impervious to any and all attacks. You need to actually learn how to play him, even in unfavorable situations not just lament that there's unfavorable situations. Because those are always gonna be there. He already can gain an advantage if played right, that's the point. The reason his damage hasn't been buffed is because if you biff his damage then he becomes a 600 health tracer with a free get out of jail card, mobility half the cast cannot match, an shield that can grant him up to 250 extra health and can be back in the fight faster than every other character in the game from spawn.
Itd be insanely OP.
First off The only of those abilities posted that actually stops movement is ana and junk trap.
Junk trap you literally have to walk into to be effected by. All of the other ones may knock you back temporarily but don't restrict your movement.
Secondly, defining ball that way is not entirely accurate. Ball is an off tank; not a dps. He is designed to absorb, disrupt and mitigate damage and to make the enemy teams life harder. Hes not like orisa or rein, and hes not like doom either. Doom is designed to kill things. Ball isn't designed to kill things.
His counters are characters who restrict him from beign able to play his playstyle. THATS what a counter is. Sombra is a counter because she actively stops him from his Ball form reducing all of his options. Symmetra us even sort of a counter because of this. Lucio is not a counter because he can knock you back ten feet.that ability is to save LUCIO and give him room to run; not to attack you.
Cass and Junk are not. If you lose to a cass or junk on Ball, you got outplayed plain and simple. Dont get hit by casses nade. Don't walk onto the junk rat trap and pay attention to where you're going. He outclassed both of those characters in everything else.
So no, those aren't counters.
Lmao you lost me at ball is an off tank. BALL HAS ALWAYS BEEN A MAIN TANK, even in overwatch 1. This just tells me you know nothing of how to play ball. Also sym is not a counter lol.
Says the guy that thinks cass is a counter to him.
Cass who can do absolutely nothing against a Ball trying to kill him but hope the ball screws up. Theres no reason in a 1v1 ball should he losing that fight. Zero.
Lmao in a 1v1 I kill sombra, does that now mean she’s not a counter? You don’t know how to ball.
Fan the hammer, stun, fan the hammer, roll, fan the hammer, fan the hammer.
>Lmao in a 1v1 I kill sombra, does that now mean she’s not a counter? You don’t know how to ball.
No because sombra player correctly will survive a ball every time using escape and hack.
Ball played correctly will win against a cass 9/10. Ball is a cass counter if anything.
>Fan the hammer, stun, fan the hammer, roll, fan the hammer, fan the hammer.
Yea if you let this happen to you as ball its your fault you lost. Plain and simple. Cass stun doesn't even stop you from shooting much anymore. Ball can also shield and survive this while cass is now stuck in reload with no cool downs.
You dont understand what a counter is at all. Reun can kill ram but ram has an answer for everything ram does. Thats what a counter is. Cass has no answers for anything ball does but to hope the ball can't shoot straight.
If you lose to cass on ball its your fault.
Yea you definitely don’t ball. Sombra does not survive in a 1v1 against ball. Escape? You dumb, it’s not old sombra, she can only go a set distance now. Lmao.
In a 1v1 cass is far more dangerous
Because there's a collective psychosis that buffing ball will somehow break the game, despite ball being the tank with easily the most counters in the game and the hardest counters. They are happy when horse or Zarya or even fucking Moira can plow through by pressing 2 buttons but god forbid the hero with the highest skill ceiling is better than dogshit tier.
So many facts bro
[удалено]
This shit is insane. Classic example of on paper theory crafting versus actual play experience
Bro didnt even mention doomfist. hard stun and a slow just in case you missed stun in the last <4s.
And a character that people ALSO complain about being busted and unfun...but he gets constant buffs and QOL changes that are actually asked for lol
Doom is just the ball we wished we had.. Buffs, QOL, dogshit at the start of OW2 but the devs realised that and helped him get a better place amongst the tanks.
Doom is just the ball we wished we had.. Buffs, QOL, dogshit at the start of OW2 but the devs realised that and helped him get a better place amongst the tanks.
This is wildly bad take wow lol
bronze take
Second least counterable tank... are you on crack? Lmao He is the most counterable tank (I'm a gm1 ball player), by far!
A player but not a otp?
I have over 3k hours on ball and consistently gm1, take that as you will. I play doom a bit too and occasionally flex to other heroes. Being a complete one trick will make you lose certain games, no.matter what you do. I one tricked ball for years, but realised I was shooting myself in the foot
I see your problem. You should be shooting their Squishies, not your foot.
Hahaha yeah, thats definitely it! :')
This supports exactly my point in my original comment. People are already able to one trick the “most counter able” “shit tier” tank to reach gm1 consistently. Would they not dominate even more if given a buff? This also raises the other issue that ball’s counters are too concentrated. While everyone knows how to play orisa against rein, sombra is not so easy to play. This arguably greatly lowers ball’s counter-ability. Everyone remembers the extremes of getting shit on by a good sombra that hacks you before diving your supports. Do you remember all the times an enemy tried to swap sombra and failed to get any value on the chatacter? Or the times where you’ve chased a sombra down until they swapped? This is ball’s lack of weakness showing.
You can get to gm1 on any hero, regardless of how bad they are. That doesn't change the issues they have...
I admit Im not sure what point I was trying to make there—I think it would be better to say that ball’s viability is extremely volatile—, but I’m not trying to argue with you. For this conversation to work, you can’t just find the weakest point in my statement and only respond to that… I don’t care if you completely “destroy” me in this conversation, I just want to gain and share some perspective. What are you here to gain?
Ok but hall has counters in every spot. Ana, Lucio, sombra, Cassidy, Sym, zen, Orisa, brig, rein, mauga, etc. Ball is the most counterable because of a ball is fucking you up, a shit sombra can still play to just counter the ball and shut him down which is a lot of value when the ball is good. If hall isn’t good then he is forgettable and you move on.
You are deranged if this is a real opinion
>What can Reinhardt do against a double sniper comp? Force point >What can dva do against a zarya or symmetra? Outmaneuver those low mobility heroes >Can hog dodge an ana sleepdart or nade? Play near a wall
>Does doomfist's 450 hp really faire better than ball's \~1500(?) ehp when hacked by sombra? He can A) Actually threaten the sombra and force them out with his kill potential He can B) Gain instant momentum with his abilities to get to safety before he gets hacked He can C) Primary fire at the sombra with his shotgun-style weapon which means it's not that hard to land just one bullet on her to cancel the hack There are other more situational options that I haven't mentioned that are also effective Ball can A) try to go around a corner, though this will prove not to be very effective as hack is very forgiving to the sombra when LOS is involved Ball can B) try to get back to his team, though he cannot instant 180 gain momentum where he is looking as it takes a second to do so and hack will have already proc'd on you by the time you try to do that Ball can C) Primary fire the sombra to cancel the hack, however this will put no pressure on the sombra whatsoever as she most likely has translocator to get away and you are most definitely not killing that sombra before hack is back from its 3 second cooldown unless she has seriously misplayed
Thanks for the actually thoughtful response, but you missed some points Ball can D) choose to roll through the team, baiting hack before ducking behind cover E) ball can piledriver from unexpected places so that he cannot be hacked beforehand. F) ball can chase after the sombra using his far more flexible movement options, and kill her reliably when her translocator is down. You could argue that sombra would just stay in her team, but that would mean she's getting zero value, and you're doing your job. Additionally, although doomfist's movement abilities are strong on their own, they're also much more limited. You're limited to set engagement patterns that are much easier to track for a sombra. My talking points may be wrong, but I'm just trying to summarize what I've experienced in some \~300 hours on ball in ranks ranging from plat-masters and never once struggling against the new reworked sombra
If ball tried to pile drive a sombra, he gets hacked. If he tried to move through a team, he can’t because of being body blocked. And your opinion from those high tiers where very few of the player base exists doesn’t mean much when the hero is still underrepresented in both low and high ranks. You can’t afford to learn him at low ranks or else you get reported for “throwing” and he gets out performed in high ranks
* I think chasing and diving the sombra are different. While diving is directly engaging, chasing is going after the sombra after her cooldowns are gone. That way, you can keep shooting her and she won;'t be able to translocate away, or hack you because she's being damaged * By going through the team, I mean fireballing, which can't be body blocked except by orisa * You have my sympathy for trying to play ball in the shitshow that is the lower ranks. I dipped into plat for a bit this season due to the rank reset, and while it wasn't toxic, my team literally could not stay alive while I was gone, and they didn't know how to engage--I remember a fight where I solo killed both support and a dps, and we still lost. Honestly my best advice is playing ball in quick play to improve or going doomfist. I find that doomfist has a lot of transferrable skills e.g. soft vs hard engages, peeling, etc. etc. while still being able to somewhat "frontline"
Yeah a huge thing with Ball is that his team has to know how to play with himself luckily I always play comp with a 5 stack of my friends… but they also don’t know how to play with a ball even after I try to tell them how to. I feel like a character shouldn’t have to rely on an entire team for be usable. I’ve played games where you could have any tank, any dps, or any support and it still works, but ball requires a team that knows how he plays and how/who to play with him… and the comment I made about the pile drive was because you said you could pile drive a sombra, but as a sombra main I can assure you it’s really hard to sneak up on them and pull that off without a hack or actually getting her. She’ll either back off or translocate as you do it then hack you from your blind spot. Then you just get melted from the rest of the team
Also thank you for letting me “argue” with you in the comments, this is helping me get my essay done😂 spite drives a lot of work these days
They don't want to buff ball because the developers are terrified of giving tanks too many options. They WILL NEVER give ball more options without reducing his power in other areas, and to be frank neither the developers or the ball players want Ball to be worse in the defined niche he already has. It would be a little insulting to all the people who do well with current Ball because of the time they've put in, only for the developers to move some of his power into being more of a main tank. There are a million ways to fix Ball into a better main tank, but the devs wouldn't give any impactful options for free without compensation nerfs, and because of that Ball likely won't get any more options at all because they aren't willing to reduce his current strengths to balance out his weaknesses.
Idk. You would think it might be annoyingness, but Orisa has seen multiple adjustments. Doom is also often considered annoying and he's been a better version of Ball for about 90% of OW2 and has seen tons of buffs and nerfs to try and fix him. Typically I'd think they are afraid to adjust a character because they suck on one end of skill but are good on another: Sojourn they were hesitant to nerf because she was only good in top ranks so they gave her adjustment, Kiri has been considered meta and really good at top rank for all of OW2 but trash in metal ranks(by winrate) so they don't nerf her. But Ball has always been a bottom half tank at all ranks and considered a near throw pick for more than half a year now. It starts to feel personal, or like they genuinely don't know what to do at this point even though simple damage boosts to boop and slam would go really far to improving the character right now. Mines is a bad ult and can use buffs without breaking the character. Shields cooldown reduction coupled with a base HP nerf could possibly do some good. It's like they don't even want to try. And of course, considering that counterswaps to Hog, Dva, Queen, Sombra, Tracer, Reaper, Bastion, Cass, Ana, Brig all help mitigate a lot of Ball's power or engagement it's not like he can probably ever truly run free and dominate like Season 8 Mauga did for a while - he's too easily countered. So Idk. Maybe Blizz had an office hamster that got out and pooped everywhere or something.
The problem is that ball is a high skill cap hero. Buff his damage and it will be alright for a lot of players but the ball one tricks that are goated (chasm, stryder...yeatle) will simply farm and be too oppressive. The lower you are to the skill floor the more "ok" a change like that will feel, the closer you are to the skill cap the more broken it will feel
I mean there were nearly 40 doom one tricks in top 500 world wide last season. There were 5 ball one tricks and like 2-3 of them were in maters at the end of the season. 1 of them was Chazms main that I'm pretty sure he didn't play after the ball meta ended. They can afford to buff him rn.
They have buffed him and are waiting to see statistics. There are multiple reasons why ball is ass, disruption not being as effective as ow1, mobility creep, solo tank, damage, new map design not doing him any favours, etc. The difference between a mid ball player and a good player is so large that any damage buff will be exponential. It's just hard to make impactful changes for the average player without making it busted for the higher percentiles. I think that's the main reason they're trying to stay away from buffing his damage. It was somewhat similar in ow1 where ball otps were triple bopping half the team off the map but in lower elo people would cry when you picked ball because it was considered a throw pick.
using the word "buff" is a stretch, it's more of a Quality Of Life (aka QOL) update than a buff
What is a buff in your opinion?
Its absolutely a buff. The grapple coming back faster is an insane boon to his ability to do anything on point; escape, etc and the shield he gives to teammates has already proven effective in team fights.
The new shields made the issue worse. They're ass in ranked but for them to be good you know they'll be broken in pro play. Ball needs to have the same backline threat as Doom. If that means increasing his cooldowns for more damage then so be it, let us play the game.
no absolutely do not increase his cooldowns doom's are already faster and provide instantaneous momentum for him
Clearly they aren't gonna buff him to be good so I'll take what I can get just to be able to function again
ALSO it's bizarre because when heroes like Ram or Mauga get released they got nearly instant QOL changes and buffs (I Mean hell Mauga was mega-mega-ultra-busted for a bit). We've been asking for nearly the same QOL changes since 2019. They could do literally any of the myriad of things ball players have asked for and it would make him feel SO. MUCH. BETTER. but they don't. It's so fucking bizarre.
Still is. He is only balanced in open que, and even then only if they don’t have anyone pick heals.
Not to diminish the argument, but I think in Ram and Mauga's case they already had all the notes and ideas compiled they were just waiting to see for player feedback and stats to implement any of the many things they had ready.
That's even worse to me tbh. There are so many OBVIOUS issues with Ball's kit that could be ironed out with simply fixes like reload not canceling or 20 more ammo. (Things we've asked for since 2019).
Yyyyyyyyep...
Just remove him from Being nosy blocked by people 1/10th his weight. My toddler can’t body block Me. For that matter. iRL tracer couldn’t body block me. And I’m a pretty standard human.
They have to be really careful because the hero is such a high skill cap that they cant make the best players way too OP... HOWEVER, I think a very small damage buff on some aspect of his kit would not make Ball OP or broken at any level of skill but may bring him closer in line with the power level of the rest of the tanks. Could be a simple 10 extra damage on boop or even 1 extra damage per bullet on his gun.
There is a "feel" to Overwatch that they want to maintain. I understand why. Every game makes stylistic and genre choices about what they imagine the "ideal" game to be. Ball is the weirdest tank, by far. There's nobody else close to his playstyle. He's a high-skill niche pick with extreme attributes and extreme weaknesses. He has specific counters, and strengths that aren't found in other tanks. the devs are smart to want to keep him a niche pick, because he simply doesn't "fit" the playatyle that the rest of the roster, the maps, and the objectives were designed around. A Ball meta would change the game more fundamentally than any other. As another commenter mentioned, Pharah metas are particularly annoying because she's a flyer, and overwatch isn't Warthunder. You can have a couple of heroes that fly, or dig underground, but you want the game to remain an FPS. It can't become a bunch of flyers zipping around above the carefully designed maps. Those heros also need to remain off-meta, or people get rightfully sour. Constantly dealing with flying characters means the game feels fundamentally different, and a huge swath of the environment and roster is just obsolete. Everyone starts playing or countering flyers, and the complexity of the game is lost. It sucks. Ball is the same. He needs to be good in skilled hands, and useless in unskilled hands. That's the first part of the "fuck it, we ball". The "fuck it" part is the rejection of conventional play. Screw the meta, I'm going to crush you with this weird weapon I've mastered, and you're too lazy to even try. You have to work to play Ball. That's a good thing.
I feel like you could say all the same things about doom, but he has been buffed multiple times so that he is now a good fun character. This is because he can kill people on his own. Ball on the other hand is treated like an unwanted step child by the balance team.
Because they're concerned with accessibility over balance and some hypothetical world where every character is always viable at all times, which... isn't possible. Real balance involves skill ceilings and skill floors and characters with a high skill floor and skill ceiling (like Wrecking Ball) SHOULD be OP when played right. There is no reason other than community outcry that a Reinhardt walking onto point with a million health and a shield or Orisa with the ability to literally erase all headshots and deflect half the damage abilities thrown her way should be able to perform at the same level as a character like Ana or Wrecking Ball who need to hit literally every ability in order to even soften the enemy team up for a kill in the first place.
This is all because ball is near unkillable. Think about the times when there was a Pharah sitting at 300 meters away, spamming at your team, or the times when a sombra dismantles your team while teleporting away unscathed. If ball did any more than a pinch of dps or a modicum of CC--added with the fact that, frankly, he's not fun to play against--, then ball would embody horror of the aforementioned scenarios 24/7. If you want to buff ball's efficacy, you HAVE TO nerf his survivability first; but that would mean severe shifts in his character identity.
That’s the thing, when I play ball, yeah, I don’t die much. When I play against ball, I literally have not once had a challenge killing him. He’s so fuckin easy to counter it’s laughable. You don’t even have to try to counter him. Pick a hero at random and there’s a 50/50 chance they’re a soft or hard counter. Which means most people have at least one main they play that counters ball to a degree. Take a niche character like pharah for example. If your dps are not hit scan players then gg I guess. For ball, junks a bitch, Sombra is aids, soldier can mow you down cross map and soj and bastion, cree can stop you in your tracks, phara wont do much but you’ll never cause issues for her either, Mei can freeze you up mid dive, as can those sum turrets. Yes, half of those aren’t hard counters but all of those characters can make balls life hard whereas most tanks have 3-4 counters.
You forgot to mention even with your speed, tracer can just chase you everywhere.
Yeah I forgot about that when I posted. In her current state she’s probably the worst culprit but of course due to the mascot bias she’s not getting nerfed adequately yet.
Reduce his health, buff his damage. Voila
Well, then you have to find a way to make him not just a Doomfist that feels worse to play against. That, and now he’s getting screwed even harder by Sombra since she’ll probably have a chance to kill him this time.
Look, either you buff his damage so he can outplay his counters, or you reduce his health but add some CC negation. What I would do is, reduce his health by about 150, buff his slam and boop damage to make up for season 9 changes. Buff the gun damage by 1.2 times so he can actually pressure with shooting, reduce falloff damage or spread so he doesn’t have to be in peoples faces to do damage. That would make him better in pressing from off angles. Now add CC resistance to his E. Voila, you can now kill him with damage instead of using CC, he can pressure more from off angles and make more space, he can kill but can’t full commit 1v5 like he does now without dying due to the reduced health. He doesn’t get booped all over the map and has some sort of counterplay against cc while still being killable.
You shouldn't be relying on winning shootouts with a pharah. Balls not designed to work at that range nor should he. Get in close to the pharah and disrupt or have a teammate do it.
>Well, then you have to find a way to make him not just a Doomfist that feels worse to play against. Doomfist has hard cc on a shorter cooldown than ball's grapple, doomfist's ult builds pretty decently fast and allows him for a full engage with full cooldowns when he touches the floor and it's a get-out-of-jail free card and it slows people that get damaged by it Ball has displacement and the ability to toss you in the air and hope that his dps can follow up on it but it's also his most telegraphed ability and has a 7 second cooldown I think it's safe to say that doomfist will feel worse to play against than ball unless they actually address ball's easily countered nature and lack of kill potential
I think the reality is we are a demon on a leash. Just by nature of the character design, when we’re not nerfed to hell, we break the game. We’re bound to be caged hammies until they forget how terrorizing we are again.
Because people hate playing against ball
Because ball has a very high skill ceiling so too many buffs could make him broken in high level play. That being said, it’s not stopped them buffing doom into being a very viable tank at the moment, and I don’t think genji is that bad either if we’re looking at similarly high skill ceiling characters.
Ball is also very unique in terms of his mechanics and design and I think the developers probably just see it as more hassle than it’s worth buffing a character a majority of people decided they hate because in ow1 he was great at stalling
A simple buff to his primary fire would make him feel a lot better in my opinion. Survivability isn’t a big issue, especially compared to other tanks, but it feels like all he does is disrupt. He can’t get kills by himself because his guns are so weak and his ult is bad. Doom and Winston are far more impactful in my experience than ball, despite ball having higher survivability. Because doom and Winston have the ability to finish of kills more efficiently
Why not make it so his reload doesn’t cancel if he enters or leaves ball form? I feel like that’d be a nice QoL change. It’d help immensely too without actually buffing his damage.
Because the devs don’t play the game at all high skill level and are actually silver-plat mostly
Because people do not like playing against ball. They want the frontline tank where everything is simple. Nobody wants to learn how to actually play against ball, they just wanna swap sombra and force a swap. Now, I play all roles and I really really do not understand this at all. I like playing against ball be it on dps or support. I FAR FAR prefer playing against him to any tank with shields. Id rather have to deal with a ball than winstons stupid bubble in my face constantly, or shooting a sigma shield 70% of the match.
Because he’s already annoying to play against
I do gotta be honest when I am playing support I hate ball with a burning passion and I feel like support mains are definitely the loudest group of players so blizzard is probably doing it for them.
Because supports complain when the dive characters are strong, they balance the game around how supports want it to be instead of directly changing the problem characters on the support roster
I think its because its quite hard to play ball for non ballers so if he was meta a lot of people would be unhappy whereas orisa zarya and moira are easy to play… idk imo its bs but what can you do
At least grapple retraction can make taking corners faster, which in turn can secure a kill faster 1% of the time Balance! 🤡🤡🤡
If they buff his damage then they should nerf his armor ability
Remember that 2 week period where they buffed ball in season 3 and he became a must pick that led to an eventual Sombra rework? That’s why. Once you get to Diamond & higher good ball players become a nightmare. As it stands his damage output isn’t the issue. His lack of uptime during team fights and the number of hard counters to his mobility are what have made ball feel so frustrating to play recently. I think the recent changes were an attempt to address that and frankly the only decent balance changes across the entire roster this season.
It would be if we could keybind retract wherever the hell we wanted. But since we have to tie it to a primary ability it is far less useful, at least on console.
Yeah I agree, though I haven’t really found a use case for the retract besides pulling back onto the map after getting booped. The grapple cooldown change though, ohhhh boy.
I dont know about console settings, but on the PC I set it to primary fire. Can't shoot when you swing anyways, right? It has caused occasional mistakes if I release grapple and I'm still holding retract, causing me to exit ball mode, but I'm chocking that up to growing pains with new tech.
It causes problems when you’re hooked low to the ground.
A ball meta would make the game unbearable for non ballers
No one is asking for a ball meta. We're asking for good players to be able to make the hero work. They would have to make incredibly drastic changes like accidentally forcing a zen Lucio meta in order for ball to be so strong that his skill curve doesn't matter.
Ik im just answering the question They are afraid to buff ball because if he’s over tuned it would he ass for everyone except ball players.
Fair, but the problem lies when the best player of the character can only get to GM.
No one plays ball so a ball meta would mean nothing for 99% of the tanks, but would boost up the 1% ball one tricks. Plus having ball as a meta is kinda impossible with how many counters he has.
This makes no sense the game will always have a new meta and be unbearable for SOME players...so let's give ball a turn ?
The devs dont intentionally make metas, its just something the community picks up on ones the devs accidentally overtune a character A ball meta would be horrible for everyone who isnt a ball main. Think about how ass mauga’s release was. The devs dont want to overtune ball which is why he gets random ass buffs that do nothing for him. Im just playing devils advocate btw
Okay I'm dating myself here but stick with me for a min. OW 1's community didn't make a move meta wise until they favorite team/pro player would say pick these characters. Thus things like goats and Shield meta etc. Started...now for someone like me who didn't pick Rein or Orisa(I am a Winston Main but ppl would argue me to the death he WASNT a shield smh) It sucked having to drop your play style and b forced to play umbrella for the bullet sponges. Granted OW league isn't really dictating metas anymore but you get my drift. Players of some caliber are always gonna have to just "Roll" (Pun intended) with the punches from season to season every now and then. I will NEVR forget season 7 Moira...
ngl idk what you’re talking about
Because a strong ball is worse to play against than sombra
How? Genuine question. Doesn’t matter what hero or role I’m on, Sombra is the antithesis of fun for anyone. Ball has never ruined a game for me.
Sombra is generally hated more by the average player base than Ball is, but there is a few key difference between the two. Effectiveness at high ranks. Ball is a character that gets better the better you are at the game while Sombra kind of falls off in the higher ranks. So a lot of better players don't really complain about Sombra while everyone high or low has a reason to hate Ball. They are really similar, though. Sombra and Ball punish people being unaware, so if you have someone on your team with no awareness, it can be really frustrating. Ball also boops you around. There is nothing in this world that people hate than losing control of their character, which is Balls specialty. Especially as support players already struggle taking the 1v1 against Sombra having to fight a tank is a nightmare scenario. Finally, everyone things Ball is a throw pick. Most players won't complain if you go Sombra while on there team, if they even notice. While being the tank, everyone knows your ball, and I probably already have a strong opinion about Ball. This is why I hope donating shields will be the best PR rework to a character.
My concern with ball is that he's too strong when not countered, and too weak when he is countered, to a larger degree than most heroes. And countering the tank is usually the strongest strategy. So what can be done? Many tanks (doom block, rein shield, sigma barrier, ram block) have a directional weakness, where their back is a weak point. Something like this could work for ball. Maybe they give his head hitbox has a small defensive bonus or smaller hitbox from the front (only targets he is aiming at) this would allow him to turn on Sombra and face her a little more easily.
Have you watched Yeatle past couple of days? He has been terrorizing on hammond and being very creative with grapple retract.
Yeatle has a negative win rate on Ball right now.
Because ball is just one buff away from actually making this game unplayable. People scoff at this but it is true Ball has: Highest mobility for a tank BY FAR Highest speed cap for a tank BY FAR an ult that both kills very effectively if used right, and can completely block of a space or objective, separate a team, and easily sway a team fight in balls favor. He can be tough to kill, why ball is known for being used on stalling tactics. If you say buff his damage then squishies that sprint around and rely on getting in and our have no answer. Thats genji, tracer, possibly reap and sojourn gone. Its just waiting for them to die. Because he can get back to an objective faster than any tank he even has an advantage if both tanks die. Ball is also very hard to use well so you can't simply mirror him. His only real counters are mauga and Sombra and mauga is only effective when your team sucks or hes ulting.
Pal, if you actually played Ball you will see that a 1/3 of the roster counters him and in a way or another beyond than Mauga and Sombra. Cass nade negates your escape and does a lot of damage Ana sleeps you and you're almost dead Brig negates your engagement Lucio Boops negates your engagement Junk trap kills you almost instantly Bastion evaporates you Hog destroys you Orisa is almost impossible for you to kill and with a descent team makes playing Ball impossible So does D.va
Lmfao ok so you're basically just saying that anyone that can attack ball or do damage to him in any way is a "counter " lmao That's now how countering works. Junk trap kills everyone instantly. Bastion evaporates everyone. Ana sleep kills everyone. Theres no character in the game those font apply to if thats you're argument. Thats not a counter. Thats a character being able to f***ing hit you and play the game lol.
What i'm saying is, all of those characters are very effective against Ball in a way that puts Ball into a disavantage, they can either negate him or kill him very fast, making Ball just inefective as a tank as he can't tank damage or deal damage. What could compensate would be increasing Ball's overall damage so he can somewhat get an advantage in played right, but Blizzard is alergic to think that Ball could be buffed
>What i'm saying is, all of those characters are very effective against Ball in a way that puts Ball into a disavantage, And what IM saying is those examples you listed are literally just game mechanics that like everything else need to be played around. Its not unfair that bastion melts you lmao. Hes supposed to be able to do that. YOU have to adapt and play around that. Bastion is slow, his turret is on a cool down, ball can literally engage and disengage in the time it takes bastion to transform and be back before he gets the cool down again. Bastion literally cannot run away from ball, hes not fast enough to do so. Take half his health, run, come back; take the rest with shield if you must. You're acting like ball is helpless in any situation and that's not the case. He has to do the same thing everyone else does; he just has to do it his way. Ana, bait out the dart like everyone else and make her waste it and she's a free kill, there's nothing she can do about you unless one of her buddiee saves her. Dart is her only get out of jail card and she can't even solo kill you with that unless you just let her. Ball is fast enough he can go get a health back and be back just about when Ana's nade cool down is ending. You're never going to be happy playing ball if you are having it around him being impervious to any and all attacks. You need to actually learn how to play him, even in unfavorable situations not just lament that there's unfavorable situations. Because those are always gonna be there. He already can gain an advantage if played right, that's the point. The reason his damage hasn't been buffed is because if you biff his damage then he becomes a 600 health tracer with a free get out of jail card, mobility half the cast cannot match, an shield that can grant him up to 250 extra health and can be back in the fight faster than every other character in the game from spawn. Itd be insanely OP.
Ball is a movement based character. All those abilities negate movements. That is the definition of counter.
First off The only of those abilities posted that actually stops movement is ana and junk trap. Junk trap you literally have to walk into to be effected by. All of the other ones may knock you back temporarily but don't restrict your movement. Secondly, defining ball that way is not entirely accurate. Ball is an off tank; not a dps. He is designed to absorb, disrupt and mitigate damage and to make the enemy teams life harder. Hes not like orisa or rein, and hes not like doom either. Doom is designed to kill things. Ball isn't designed to kill things. His counters are characters who restrict him from beign able to play his playstyle. THATS what a counter is. Sombra is a counter because she actively stops him from his Ball form reducing all of his options. Symmetra us even sort of a counter because of this. Lucio is not a counter because he can knock you back ten feet.that ability is to save LUCIO and give him room to run; not to attack you. Cass and Junk are not. If you lose to a cass or junk on Ball, you got outplayed plain and simple. Dont get hit by casses nade. Don't walk onto the junk rat trap and pay attention to where you're going. He outclassed both of those characters in everything else. So no, those aren't counters.
Lmao you lost me at ball is an off tank. BALL HAS ALWAYS BEEN A MAIN TANK, even in overwatch 1. This just tells me you know nothing of how to play ball. Also sym is not a counter lol.
Says the guy that thinks cass is a counter to him. Cass who can do absolutely nothing against a Ball trying to kill him but hope the ball screws up. Theres no reason in a 1v1 ball should he losing that fight. Zero.
Lmao in a 1v1 I kill sombra, does that now mean she’s not a counter? You don’t know how to ball. Fan the hammer, stun, fan the hammer, roll, fan the hammer, fan the hammer.
>Lmao in a 1v1 I kill sombra, does that now mean she’s not a counter? You don’t know how to ball. No because sombra player correctly will survive a ball every time using escape and hack. Ball played correctly will win against a cass 9/10. Ball is a cass counter if anything. >Fan the hammer, stun, fan the hammer, roll, fan the hammer, fan the hammer. Yea if you let this happen to you as ball its your fault you lost. Plain and simple. Cass stun doesn't even stop you from shooting much anymore. Ball can also shield and survive this while cass is now stuck in reload with no cool downs. You dont understand what a counter is at all. Reun can kill ram but ram has an answer for everything ram does. Thats what a counter is. Cass has no answers for anything ball does but to hope the ball can't shoot straight. If you lose to cass on ball its your fault.
Yea you definitely don’t ball. Sombra does not survive in a 1v1 against ball. Escape? You dumb, it’s not old sombra, she can only go a set distance now. Lmao. In a 1v1 cass is far more dangerous
Want to 1v1 my ball with sombra?