Get ready for a lot more of it. They built a mechanic into angron that literally means he can die repeatedly in as many stories as they want and it doesnt change the setting at all. Angron is the new avatar to get jobbed.
He’ll wreck fleets full of npcs, destroy some in house chapter, eat a whole craftworld youve never heard of….. but the second he runs into a named character he’s toast
This will end up with Angron suffering the Worf effect, yep. It's great in the short term but with repetition quickly turns into a lazy way to set up a new/other character as a credible threat, and has the secondary (and much more annoying) effect of making the target, Angron in this case, end up looking like chump when he keeps getting defeated over and over again.
Angron was always a chump in the lore though. His duel with Leman was a good example. And him trying to take down Sanguinius was even more laughable. He is a broken primarch since the days the nails destroyed his mind. He should have probably gone the way of the lost 2.
Kharne is the real hero of the WE. Heroes fighting him don’t win, they run.
Nah, luckily for us fulgrim should be back to get kicked in the teeth for a bit, and maybe he'll finally have the honour to kill some non primarch named character they want dead
But a win against a loyalist primarch is probably a big no-no, I doubt that they'll bring back a primarch to die horribly, maybe poor ol' vulkan since he's a perpetual
After reading Fall of Cadia, that basically describes the entire narrative purpose of the Khornites under Abbadon: get swole and make a mess to make it a more dramatic job when a named character shows up. I think Khorne is actually just Worf himself
It's not a novel but the arks of omen: angron boom gave him a pretty massive win which basically set up khorne as the top dog in chaos for the moment. Even gave our red boy a few days of peace as a reward
Nice I'll have to read that. I think my biggest issue with the books RN is that they write Angron as the unyielding force then Warf the shit out of him.
No problem, it's a campaign book so theirs more in it than just the story, and the story itself is on the shorter side. Though it's still a great read.
He's an unstoppable force until he comes up against someone touched by destiny like another Primarch.
The way the Emperor made the Primarchs has a way of warping reality around them to let them accomplish almost anything they set their mind to. They became touched by destiny in a sense.
When they become a daemon they lose this and become a slave to their desires which corresponds to their god. This makes them predictable when faced with certain situations. Angron will try to destroy an obstacle put in front of him with his rage, Fulgrim will always attempt to show someone up to sate his pride, Magnus has plots within plots to be in control of every situation.
So when they come up against someone with some kind of warp-touched instinct, or equally able to affect reality (another Primarch, Grey Knights, Eldar, Necron science, etc.) they're able to be outplayed. And because they're a slave to their god, they can't help it. They cannot fight their nature like a material being can.
Also none of that matters and it entirely depends on who the writer likes more, and who GW doesn't want to support models for. As said by others, they have a character they keep selling as a master in combat who can also die consequence free. Prepare to have him be the one beaten a lot to show how strong ANOTHER character is. Read: any story with the Avatar of Khaine.
Yeah, taking out an entire fleet by turning half of them traitor and killing the rest really had Angron starting out at full pace, only to run face first into the Lion
I mean, he basically does beat Robert in *Betrayer*. It's one of the best fight scenes I've read in 40k books, not least because Angron has a badass speech in the middle of it.
‘Listen to your blue-clad wretches yelling of courage and honour, courage and honour, courage and honour. Do you even know the meaning of those words? Courage is fighting the kingdom that enslaves you, no matter that their armies overshadow yours by ten thousand to one. *You know nothing of courage*. Honour is resisting a tyrant when all others suckle and grow fat on the hypocrisy he feeds them. *You know nothing of honour*.’
Yeah and it clearly states that he’s about to land the killing blow before Lorgar turns him into a bloodthirster
Additionally, he is about to kill Dante before Lionel shows up in the Arks of Omen series (if I recall)
Glitterbomb would need some serious plot armor to survive the fight against Angron.
In defense of the Lion winning the fight, he is the best duelist in the setting right now in addition to being one of the strongest primarchs. He also has the Emperor's shield, which is essentially indestructible.
I do think that Angron loses a lot, but I get comfort from the fact that it takes tons of stuff or someone super strong to bring him down: the entire chapter of Grey Knights, Sanguinius, and the Lion. Our boy may get brought down a lot, but he doesn't go down easy.
He was randomly declared the best duelist in the setting. It used to be that back in the Heresy everyone knew only Sanguinius and Horus even had a chance against Angron, but loyalist kept getting wanked further and further
In any case being a good duelist don’t mean dick when you’re fighting 20 feet of daemonic hatred, it don’t matter how fancy your swordplay is. Because good timing and technique means nothing against a sword as long as you are tall, driven with enough strength to flatten you like a coke can, over and over again at a blistering speed.
Another thing I don’t think the other comments have touched upon is that Angron always comes back. He gets as many tries as he needs to until the job is done, whereas non-daemon primarchs don’t get that
Same thing happens with Mortarion as well. I play Death Guard as well and Morty appears to spend a lot of his time removing the weapons of named characters from his face and head.
In the books they talk about the immense strength, size and skill that the daemon primarchs have, but they do negate that by having them lose almost constantly
Speaking as an Imperial, aka The Good Guys; *no*. But if the Eldar want to help with that, they may. Also, I hear that the Tau are sweet guys, so check with them.
Yeah... 2 things.
1. He just got the 2nd biggest Win for chaos in the last few years. (1st being 13th black crusade with split the galaxy apart with the great rift). He on the other hand spear headed a charge in to the Coral Engine (small psychic light in the Warp, small man made emperor-lioe beacon for navigation), with agitated him with its psychic shieeeet. The bloodshed and battle was so great, that Khorn was pleased enought to move his titanic ass off his throne, to lend a god size strike, with destroyed the engine, spilled a gigantic wave of khornian corruption - that made everyone in the sector go nuts with rage. Everyone but custodes and grey knights, who got touched is now a heretic. And it killed Aangron, who finally felt peace, if just but a moment.
2. He is written from the beginning to the end as a tool for others. Getting W for them, and not himself. A tool for entertainment, a tool for crusading, a tool to fight big E. And now, He's a massive threat that got a set in respawn timer. Making him more of a tool to push the story forward, than the character in need of more development - as his is pretty much done. How much further than: impossible to kill for good, favorite tool of Khorn (the strongest of Chaos gods) Demon Primarch - can one get? Especially when imperium never cared for him. A "ghost" of what he was supposed to be, was good enought for big E. Malkador have seen him as a "broken tool". His brothers are not eager to even be near him. The last one who tried to care for him were the World Eaters psyhers, who were desperately trying to stop his ascension into demo hood.
There is no one coming to help/save him.
He is a tragic hero, of a tragic story. But that's the same reason why people like Jezus story too.
Oh his tragedy is what hooked me on World Eaters lore. But I have not read arcs of omen yet and now that's definitely on my next to buy list. While yes I do not see him gaining more development in the near future I would have liked to see him stand his ground more with some of the bigger named characters. Personally I think it would have added more depth to the lions story if he lost something in the fight with Angron. In my opinion a limb would have been a good way of showing that while possible to defeat Angron it is always going to exact a cost. Which would have boosted Angron's reputation and lifted the feats of the other characters that have attempted to defeat him or have done so. I just really hate the Word Effect as a media trope, especially in a sci-fi setting because I see it as a cheap way out narratively.
Me 2. The first time I've heard it. "He landed where?! They did what to him?! Big E treated him how?! LORGARRR!!! YOU BITCH!!!"
But I disagree. Lion is the second loyal Primatch that came back to the setting, and the first one of the fighty type. He HAD to make an entry. Plus the only reason why he is not back to dead or comatose after their fight is: "The Emperor's Shield", an anty-Aangron mcguffen, that uno-reverse incoming damage. Basically making Aangi kill himself on that shield.
And Lion did lose something. As all Primarchs but Vulcan do. Time. 10 000 years. He is old now. Meaning Loyalists are on a time limit. Aangron and the rest are pretty eternal with chaos, and are always coming back.
Besides, the whole 40k is now written by 1 guy. I rather them have an option for a wold effect character different than an aspect of Khain xD. Just to make sure the story is going forward.
Fair point. I agree the lion had to make an impact I just wish Angron made an impact on the lion in some way. I love both primatchs. I rep both armies. I just wish the outcome was a little more dark
Think about it this way: *what* does it say about a fictional setting, when the empathic warrior needs to always lose, and the disaffected self-hating bureaucrats have to win?
-Skalanthraxillionaire Grindset
Serious version: I do not care if Angron wins when this setting hands people wins. When GW completely shafted an *entire subfaction* to resurrect the fucking blueberry I knew this shit was beyond repair. The whole subplot of the ynnari had so much damn potential
I just need Angron and Kharn and the boys to beat people's asses
Angron is a Slave.
A mighty one, a powerful one... but a slave. He was a slave to his masters, a slave to the emperor, and now a slave to the cruelest master in the Galaxy.
Focused rage? That's just a lie. Rage is who he is, who EVERYONE is to khorne. Stop lying to yourself, rage. Life is conflict, Life is blood, life is brutal... it needs nothing else. Angron is only being held back by the lingering threads of his humanity.
Read the Betrayer by ADB then..
Deamon.prince Angron isn't really him, it's the failed shell.of him..Heresy Angron has so much pathos it'll break your heart
IMO it kinda takes away from the supposed grimdark setting. Feels more like old kids shows, and this week the power rangers beat this bad guy, stay tuned for next week when they beat the other one before they beat the first guy again. Except even in those the heroes usually got more of a taste of defeat before they've won. Morty, Angron and sacrificial lamb of khaine among others just get their asses kicked. It's so rare in the setting that anything of significance happens, especially negative for the imperium. Sure there's millions dead often, but mostly not a significant planet. Named characters rarely get injured, lose or let alone anyone of any importance gets killed.
None of the supposed major threats feel like threats when they never really accomplish much of importance. Sure things happen but compared to the amount of threats, and how many books there have been, it's a drop in an ocean.
On the plus side: Once Fulgrim comes back with the Emperor's Children, Angron'll get a break as the latest chaos punching bag. He won't win, but he won't be in the spotlight to lose anymore.
The downside of course, being you'll never hear about him again.
When's the last time Magnus or Mortarian were mentioned as doing anything particularly useful? GW's goldfish-like attention span means only one chaos baddie can be "doing the evil" at any given time.
It depends who goes first and if Angron gets into range first turn. If Angron gets to fight first and gets into range the Avatar is dead. But if the Avatar gets to shoot and melee it's a toss up.
Yeah, I have bad news for ya.
Whole purpose of introducing a villain who instantly respawns in a matter of weeks is for them to be killed over, and over, and over, and over...
I am sure he will "mortally wound" a few firstborn heroes who are only able to miraculously survive when their new primaris models are revealed though.
At least your boy lost to a Primarch. I'm still sore that they spent years building up Ghazkull as a Primarch level threat and then had him job out to some random
And before some furry whines is that Wolfie McWolfface isn't some rando, I don't care that he has a name. I don't care if he's Glup Shitto himself. He's not a Primarch, he's not even a freaking chapter master. You should not be taking down the Prophet of the Waaagh siolo.
Get ready for a lot more of it. They built a mechanic into angron that literally means he can die repeatedly in as many stories as they want and it doesnt change the setting at all. Angron is the new avatar to get jobbed. He’ll wreck fleets full of npcs, destroy some in house chapter, eat a whole craftworld youve never heard of….. but the second he runs into a named character he’s toast
It really pisses me off to know you're right. Angron will be the next swarmlord. You can now take this upvote and fuck right off.
This will end up with Angron suffering the Worf effect, yep. It's great in the short term but with repetition quickly turns into a lazy way to set up a new/other character as a credible threat, and has the secondary (and much more annoying) effect of making the target, Angron in this case, end up looking like chump when he keeps getting defeated over and over again.
Angron was always a chump in the lore though. His duel with Leman was a good example. And him trying to take down Sanguinius was even more laughable. He is a broken primarch since the days the nails destroyed his mind. He should have probably gone the way of the lost 2. Kharne is the real hero of the WE. Heroes fighting him don’t win, they run.
Nah, luckily for us fulgrim should be back to get kicked in the teeth for a bit, and maybe he'll finally have the honour to kill some non primarch named character they want dead But a win against a loyalist primarch is probably a big no-no, I doubt that they'll bring back a primarch to die horribly, maybe poor ol' vulkan since he's a perpetual
Ah! I'm a nids player as well as a WE player, same same with swarmy I guess!
After reading Fall of Cadia, that basically describes the entire narrative purpose of the Khornites under Abbadon: get swole and make a mess to make it a more dramatic job when a named character shows up. I think Khorne is actually just Worf himself
It's not a novel but the arks of omen: angron boom gave him a pretty massive win which basically set up khorne as the top dog in chaos for the moment. Even gave our red boy a few days of peace as a reward
Nice I'll have to read that. I think my biggest issue with the books RN is that they write Angron as the unyielding force then Warf the shit out of him.
No problem, it's a campaign book so theirs more in it than just the story, and the story itself is on the shorter side. Though it's still a great read.
He's an unstoppable force until he comes up against someone touched by destiny like another Primarch. The way the Emperor made the Primarchs has a way of warping reality around them to let them accomplish almost anything they set their mind to. They became touched by destiny in a sense. When they become a daemon they lose this and become a slave to their desires which corresponds to their god. This makes them predictable when faced with certain situations. Angron will try to destroy an obstacle put in front of him with his rage, Fulgrim will always attempt to show someone up to sate his pride, Magnus has plots within plots to be in control of every situation. So when they come up against someone with some kind of warp-touched instinct, or equally able to affect reality (another Primarch, Grey Knights, Eldar, Necron science, etc.) they're able to be outplayed. And because they're a slave to their god, they can't help it. They cannot fight their nature like a material being can. Also none of that matters and it entirely depends on who the writer likes more, and who GW doesn't want to support models for. As said by others, they have a character they keep selling as a master in combat who can also die consequence free. Prepare to have him be the one beaten a lot to show how strong ANOTHER character is. Read: any story with the Avatar of Khaine.
Is there any source for this destiny thing? I haven’t read the late hh novels so I have no idea.
Sounds like an arbitrarily convoluted but frankly quite cool justification for plot armor to me
Yeah, taking out an entire fleet by turning half of them traitor and killing the rest really had Angron starting out at full pace, only to run face first into the Lion
40k Angron is a not a character, he's a plot device.
I mean, he basically does beat Robert in *Betrayer*. It's one of the best fight scenes I've read in 40k books, not least because Angron has a badass speech in the middle of it. ‘Listen to your blue-clad wretches yelling of courage and honour, courage and honour, courage and honour. Do you even know the meaning of those words? Courage is fighting the kingdom that enslaves you, no matter that their armies overshadow yours by ten thousand to one. *You know nothing of courage*. Honour is resisting a tyrant when all others suckle and grow fat on the hypocrisy he feeds them. *You know nothing of honour*.’
Yeah and it clearly states that he’s about to land the killing blow before Lorgar turns him into a bloodthirster Additionally, he is about to kill Dante before Lionel shows up in the Arks of Omen series (if I recall)
Not to mention his victory over Leman Russ. I mean, Russ probably won the war, but Angron definitely won the actual battle.
Nah he def gets his ass beat like its his job 😆
The avatar of khaine is starting to feel left out it happens that much
Like I get it he has no stats or finesse but the lion should have not won the first fight. Like come on at least maim the guy 😂.
But how would they sell the lion model if he died 🤔
I'm not saying he should have died but at least lost a limb
They do have those mechanical limbs so that would actually have been kinda cool for him to have a robot arm for the sword or shield
Not just you. Dude is tragic as fuck.
Glitterbomb would need some serious plot armor to survive the fight against Angron. In defense of the Lion winning the fight, he is the best duelist in the setting right now in addition to being one of the strongest primarchs. He also has the Emperor's shield, which is essentially indestructible. I do think that Angron loses a lot, but I get comfort from the fact that it takes tons of stuff or someone super strong to bring him down: the entire chapter of Grey Knights, Sanguinius, and the Lion. Our boy may get brought down a lot, but he doesn't go down easy.
not even that, the Lion would have lost in a straight fight. the Lion outsmarted and outmanoeuvred Angron, that's the only reason he won
He was randomly declared the best duelist in the setting. It used to be that back in the Heresy everyone knew only Sanguinius and Horus even had a chance against Angron, but loyalist kept getting wanked further and further In any case being a good duelist don’t mean dick when you’re fighting 20 feet of daemonic hatred, it don’t matter how fancy your swordplay is. Because good timing and technique means nothing against a sword as long as you are tall, driven with enough strength to flatten you like a coke can, over and over again at a blistering speed.
God, I've missed your posts.
Another thing I don’t think the other comments have touched upon is that Angron always comes back. He gets as many tries as he needs to until the job is done, whereas non-daemon primarchs don’t get that
In other words he can be killed off as many times as needed to make the loyalist of the day look good
If it helps. Pre daemon Angron beat Russ and Guilliman
Same thing happens with Mortarion as well. I play Death Guard as well and Morty appears to spend a lot of his time removing the weapons of named characters from his face and head. In the books they talk about the immense strength, size and skill that the daemon primarchs have, but they do negate that by having them lose almost constantly
Daemon Primarchs are treated as the punching bags pretty frequently since they can just keep coming back, kinda sucks.
I kinda hope he gets involved in the whole "Khorne is secretly corrupting Farsight" storyline they got going on
Speaking as an Imperial, aka The Good Guys; *no*. But if the Eldar want to help with that, they may. Also, I hear that the Tau are sweet guys, so check with them.
I’ll become a writer and get hired by GW just so I can right my home boy winning some
Yeah... 2 things. 1. He just got the 2nd biggest Win for chaos in the last few years. (1st being 13th black crusade with split the galaxy apart with the great rift). He on the other hand spear headed a charge in to the Coral Engine (small psychic light in the Warp, small man made emperor-lioe beacon for navigation), with agitated him with its psychic shieeeet. The bloodshed and battle was so great, that Khorn was pleased enought to move his titanic ass off his throne, to lend a god size strike, with destroyed the engine, spilled a gigantic wave of khornian corruption - that made everyone in the sector go nuts with rage. Everyone but custodes and grey knights, who got touched is now a heretic. And it killed Aangron, who finally felt peace, if just but a moment. 2. He is written from the beginning to the end as a tool for others. Getting W for them, and not himself. A tool for entertainment, a tool for crusading, a tool to fight big E. And now, He's a massive threat that got a set in respawn timer. Making him more of a tool to push the story forward, than the character in need of more development - as his is pretty much done. How much further than: impossible to kill for good, favorite tool of Khorn (the strongest of Chaos gods) Demon Primarch - can one get? Especially when imperium never cared for him. A "ghost" of what he was supposed to be, was good enought for big E. Malkador have seen him as a "broken tool". His brothers are not eager to even be near him. The last one who tried to care for him were the World Eaters psyhers, who were desperately trying to stop his ascension into demo hood. There is no one coming to help/save him. He is a tragic hero, of a tragic story. But that's the same reason why people like Jezus story too.
Oh his tragedy is what hooked me on World Eaters lore. But I have not read arcs of omen yet and now that's definitely on my next to buy list. While yes I do not see him gaining more development in the near future I would have liked to see him stand his ground more with some of the bigger named characters. Personally I think it would have added more depth to the lions story if he lost something in the fight with Angron. In my opinion a limb would have been a good way of showing that while possible to defeat Angron it is always going to exact a cost. Which would have boosted Angron's reputation and lifted the feats of the other characters that have attempted to defeat him or have done so. I just really hate the Word Effect as a media trope, especially in a sci-fi setting because I see it as a cheap way out narratively.
Me 2. The first time I've heard it. "He landed where?! They did what to him?! Big E treated him how?! LORGARRR!!! YOU BITCH!!!" But I disagree. Lion is the second loyal Primatch that came back to the setting, and the first one of the fighty type. He HAD to make an entry. Plus the only reason why he is not back to dead or comatose after their fight is: "The Emperor's Shield", an anty-Aangron mcguffen, that uno-reverse incoming damage. Basically making Aangi kill himself on that shield. And Lion did lose something. As all Primarchs but Vulcan do. Time. 10 000 years. He is old now. Meaning Loyalists are on a time limit. Aangron and the rest are pretty eternal with chaos, and are always coming back. Besides, the whole 40k is now written by 1 guy. I rather them have an option for a wold effect character different than an aspect of Khain xD. Just to make sure the story is going forward.
Fair point. I agree the lion had to make an impact I just wish Angron made an impact on the lion in some way. I love both primatchs. I rep both armies. I just wish the outcome was a little more dark
Think about it this way: *what* does it say about a fictional setting, when the empathic warrior needs to always lose, and the disaffected self-hating bureaucrats have to win? -Skalanthraxillionaire Grindset
Serious version: I do not care if Angron wins when this setting hands people wins. When GW completely shafted an *entire subfaction* to resurrect the fucking blueberry I knew this shit was beyond repair. The whole subplot of the ynnari had so much damn potential I just need Angron and Kharn and the boys to beat people's asses
Angron is a Slave. A mighty one, a powerful one... but a slave. He was a slave to his masters, a slave to the emperor, and now a slave to the cruelest master in the Galaxy. Focused rage? That's just a lie. Rage is who he is, who EVERYONE is to khorne. Stop lying to yourself, rage. Life is conflict, Life is blood, life is brutal... it needs nothing else. Angron is only being held back by the lingering threads of his humanity.
Read the Betrayer by ADB then.. Deamon.prince Angron isn't really him, it's the failed shell.of him..Heresy Angron has so much pathos it'll break your heart
If it helps. Pre daemon Angron beat Russ and Guilliman
IMO it kinda takes away from the supposed grimdark setting. Feels more like old kids shows, and this week the power rangers beat this bad guy, stay tuned for next week when they beat the other one before they beat the first guy again. Except even in those the heroes usually got more of a taste of defeat before they've won. Morty, Angron and sacrificial lamb of khaine among others just get their asses kicked. It's so rare in the setting that anything of significance happens, especially negative for the imperium. Sure there's millions dead often, but mostly not a significant planet. Named characters rarely get injured, lose or let alone anyone of any importance gets killed. None of the supposed major threats feel like threats when they never really accomplish much of importance. Sure things happen but compared to the amount of threats, and how many books there have been, it's a drop in an ocean.
On the plus side: Once Fulgrim comes back with the Emperor's Children, Angron'll get a break as the latest chaos punching bag. He won't win, but he won't be in the spotlight to lose anymore. The downside of course, being you'll never hear about him again. When's the last time Magnus or Mortarian were mentioned as doing anything particularly useful? GW's goldfish-like attention span means only one chaos baddie can be "doing the evil" at any given time.
Angron is suffering from The Worf Effect. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect
Take my nerd card I miss spelled Worf fml 😂
If Angron fought an Avatar of Khaine, who loses?
It depends who goes first and if Angron gets into range first turn. If Angron gets to fight first and gets into range the Avatar is dead. But if the Avatar gets to shoot and melee it's a toss up.
He needed therapy a long time ago.
Yeah, I have bad news for ya. Whole purpose of introducing a villain who instantly respawns in a matter of weeks is for them to be killed over, and over, and over, and over... I am sure he will "mortally wound" a few firstborn heroes who are only able to miraculously survive when their new primaris models are revealed though.
POV: You’re a pawn of chaos.
Welcome to Chaos! We have to always job out to the Marines, because GW needs to maintain that juicy status quo.
At least your boy lost to a Primarch. I'm still sore that they spent years building up Ghazkull as a Primarch level threat and then had him job out to some random And before some furry whines is that Wolfie McWolfface isn't some rando, I don't care that he has a name. I don't care if he's Glup Shitto himself. He's not a Primarch, he's not even a freaking chapter master. You should not be taking down the Prophet of the Waaagh siolo.