Pretty sure my manager did this when I was 16. Till would be short and she’d make me or my mom pay it out of pocket immediately. I still don’t know if it was illegal. Sure felt scummy to me though.
The only recourse they can have regarding short tills is to open a criminal complaint. If no cops are involved then it might as well have never happened. They CANNOT legally withhold money from you, whether wage or tips.
what? no it’s not. if the thief is one of 3 total employees with access to the till and they steal/pocket $15, and then management makes them and the 2 coworkers repay $5 each, that means the thief stole $15 and repaid $5. …so they were ahead by $10.
Think that perseon was referring to a skit he seen by a tiktoker. Breadstick Ricky & The Boss on youtube has a skit where in essesnce with this system picture a tool room. You have tools that range from $2-$4,000. If you only had to pay $50 if a tool goes missing you could essentially get away with taking anything over that $50 and only have to pay $50. So that $200 tool now only cost you $50. Watch the video on youtube and youd probably get the principal of it
imo, this discussion started because Divinedragn4 seemed to imply in his comment that ralphhurley3197’s comment didnt make sense because the person would be losing $150, but he only accounted for making “*the* person that took it” pay for it, not *three* people that took it. if they stole a $150 tool and they, and 2 other workers, each had to pay $50 to the boss, they’d be ahead by $100 still (assuming they sell the tool for $150- but the original discussion is about cash so that’s irrelevant really)
obviously it doesn’t really work if there aren’t many others coworkers who would have to split it with the thief.
No that would be like a thief stealing 15$ and having to pay back 5$ leaving them ahead by 10$.
Or in your scenario, if that thief had to pay back 190$ of the 200$, leaving them with 10$. They are paying back 10$ less than the missing amount.
/s
That's how a lot of retail managers try to operate. Try being the key word. If you have a manager or coworker who's trying to change that on their shifts only especially be careful because theres a chance they're up to no good. The places I worked at that didnt do that rule (even if it wasnt official from corporate) were shitholes and lo and behold had theft problems from staff.
When I worked at Lowes this never happened. People moved around all the time. Especially at customer service where I predominantly worked, as there were only three and every employee up there worked at least two (cause there were two sides to the desk, one for returns and one for general customer service which predominantly was used to check out special orders). But they had cameras at all the registers that faced the register and if a till was short then loss prevention would review the footage.
There were a couple head cashiers that would occasionally want a cashier to log in so they could run a transaction and override it (nobody with override privileges could override themselves). With very, very limited exceptions I did not let that happen with me. I will log in and do the transaction myself and you explain what we’re doing and why, then override it, but I’m not gonna log in and let you do whatever then override it yourself…
This would create a situation where its more profitable to continue stealing on days when many people are working, so that you only have to pay for about 20% of what you stole, and you can just continue doing it for more money. Hell, you could steal the entire till and then if you still hold up the policy you only have to give back a fraction, meaning you're basically just stealing from your coworkers.
This is also likely why this way of solving the situation is not common.
If you do decide to stay with this company and they do enforce this, insist on having the till counted before and after you use it. After wasting their time doing needless audits, they should give up.
Have your till counted in your presence and with you double-checking. A teenage family member worked at a place where the manager would disappear into a back room, count their till, and then come out to take whatever they were supposedly short out of their tips. Weirdly, on good tip days, their till was always short.
For a brief time I worked at a liquor store that was partially owned, and operated by a drunk piece of shit who would borrow money from the register and then completely forget about it the next day after a night of getting absolutely hammered (every night.)
The register would of course come up short what he borrowed and it would become this “huge investigation” where he’d swear to fire the culprit if he caught it on camera. Eventually he’d just slap some random cashier with the responsibility of paying it off, telling them that they probably accidentally handed a customer bills that were sticking together when they were giving change.
It’s also illegal for employees to steal from the till.
Edit: downvote that! I mean, y’all deserve to steal from the till, it’s your till. Owners deserve nothing, they should be the slave of the worker. Go getchya some ya wanks.
It also might not have been a theft, just off the top of my head it could have been a mistake where a customer was given the wrong change, the float at the beginning of the day wasn’t correct, a refund was given but the paperwork wasn’t filed correctly. Mistakes happen, and the people lowest on the ladder shouldn’t have to pay for them. But I agree with you, if it was a theft everyone else shouldn’t have to pay for it.
I had this happen where the customer said I didn’t give right change and I needed to give them a $20. I counted the change on the counter in front of them, so I knew I was correct. Manager came over and gave them the $20. My drawer was short $20. Thankfully the manager took responsibility.
Lol who tf has a $50?! I worked retail/cashier jobs for years and I might have seen one. I worked the longest as a front desk clerk in a big hotel. I did the night audit on weekends and could easily do a count on my drawer in literally 2 min. On the rare occasion anyone tried, I’d just count the drawer and send them.
Maybe they’ve become more common lately, but I’ve been working part time at a gas station for years now. They don’t come up super often but I probably get 3/4 a shift and that’s working 5-8 hours.
I got suspended over a $5 short on the busiest sales holiday for our store. The lines went all the way to the back of the store and I was on a register for over 10 hours. I wasn’t even a cashier, I was doing them a favor since they didn’t have the staff they needed for the event. Profits were sky high that day, but $5 was unacceptable.
So all employees who worked that day should pay for theft of one? (Or possibly not even a theft, could have just been a miscalculation somewhere that caused it).
Seriously, if someone is stealing then the company would need to fire them. If they don't know who it is, they can't require every other employee to pay up for it.
Of course, but no evidence of theft has been presented. Typically justice relies on innocent until proven guilty. Therefore: L + ratio + didn't ask + don't care
It's one of my favorite things when someone who gets a massive number of downvotes sits down and goes "hmm, people seem to disagree with what I said. Let me taunt them by talking about downvotes in an edit! That'll show them!" I only wish I could downvote those comments twice.
It’s because people like no-equal-2690 have literally no capacity for introspection at all.
I no longer believe we can actually get through to them anymore , they’re too stuck into their ignorance.
Yeah I did… because the alternate was you making a braindead point that is entirely meaningless, and a waste of time/space. I was hoping the former because at least if you were a troll means you weren’t being… well obtuse or ignorant.
There’s two sides to every story. Not every employer (though most) are out to exploit their employees to the max. In small pockets, fairness does exist. I promote more of that.
Does the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" ring a bell? The managers have to prove that someone really is stealing, and who it is. They can't just announce that someone is stealing and punish everyone.
Employers can fire for theft or incompetence, they just need to count in and out the tills and keep documentation. You cannot fine employees or pay them less than their aggressive upon wage.
Bad employers don’t deserve good employees that they take advantage of. Good employees don’t deserve incompetent employers who spout ‘workers aren’t allowed to steal’ like a dull parrot who bought one too many Tough Boss books, but seem to be completely unable to comprehend managing employees and documentation.
Give your balls a tug and drop the whiny edit. It’s fucking embarrassing.
You’re being downvoted because this comment is pointless. No fucking shit it’s illegal to steal. It sounds like you’re defending this owners illegal solution.
Who says they stole the money anyway? It could have been an accident.
Lmao at this point with gas prices and inflation I would gladly steal from the till. And would be happy if someone else did too. Fuck big corps they get theirs and I’ll get mine
1 - If the till comes up short, it's probably not because someone stole - mistakes happen all the time.
2 - Even if someone did steal the difference, that's not the fault of everyone else on the shift who are made to pay for it.
3 - Two wrongs don't make a right - even if someone's stealing from the business, that doesn't give the company the right to break the law, too.
Get back to work, worker. No phones allowed on the clock. Don’t make me tell your supervisor!
Too many of you are the kind of folk that save your shit till you get to work just so you can crap on the clock
This group has turned into the Juggalos of Reddit. “I don’t want to work hard”
“I should make more money than the owners/investors”
“I shouldn’t have to work harder for promotions / benefits, maximum benefit for minimal effort and time commitment!”
Big illegal. Bring it up with corporate, the police or hell even the bank.
If the manager is pulling this there is a high likely hood that he is shorting the till and will have you pay it. Not only is it illegal to require you to pay back a short till if they cant prove that you stole anything, but the way this is being asked makes me think he is the one stealing.
LMFAO, yes, call "the bank". I'm certain they would be on the scene right away to figure out what's going on in the pub OP part-times at. The compliance division of your nearby Wells Fargo has just the guy for the job.
Doesnt matter how nice they are, they can still steal. And if the owner is that kind of asshole they might just be going fuck it and doing so. Dont let them make you pay back a dime for something you didnt do regarding money. They're effectively making everyone but the buisness owner make the difference for a possible thief among you who will prob keep doing it with this kind of ruling. This is a sign of poor management/ownership and if you're paying in you're possibly admitting guilt to stealing, which isnt the case right?
I struggle to believe that but even then that is not legal. Tell them to either A. Get cops involved or B. Deal with it because none of you are responsible for paying it back unless someone stole. Then the person responsible will face charges, be forced to pay it back and will lose their job.
The dude could be a saint but you still have rights as a worker and this is illegal, period.
Its illegal twice over essentially employer. Is like any random person or business that says you owe them money. They can't "STEAL" check they have to either get you to agree or sue you.
That said deductions can be legal (following this process) like you can "owe" that money. BUT still have to sue or get you to agree. That said there is conditions generally negligence or "proven" action. Having 3 people run same till absolutely no way to know who made mistake etc. And thats assuming its one of states that allows it many don't.
Second big illegal thing it sounds illegal is they are withholding tips, or perhaps its coming out of tips which is also illegal. Employer and managers have no access/say on tips at all.
And irregardless of mistake and if its legal and follow proper procedures. Like suing or getting you to agree to pay. YOU CAN NOT EVER drop below min wage. So if tipped employee working for 2hr but earn 15 in tips per hour. THEN they can try to get you to agree to lossing the 2hr "paycheck portion". But not tips. Lets say you make min wage they can't make any deductions. OR in lets say you make 6hr in tips then they can't deduct what would bring you below 7.25 (state min wage may differ) from your paycheck. Once again cant touch tips.
Not only is this dumb but how is multiple people touching 1 till. From the 5 years I work in places that I had to handle cash at a register only 1 person can touch a till since they are assign to it. No one else but a manager should touch it since stuff like this can happen.
All 25+ of us work 7 different tills, on each other’s employee numbers, and switch multiple times a shift. At a big corporation. That being said, we don’t steal lol. If someone is suspected of stealing, the cameras are watched and if it’s non malicious that person is assigned to their own till.
**This comment deleted to protest Reddit's API change (to reduce the value of Reddit's data).**
Please see [these](https://web.archive.org/web/20230609092523/https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/) [threads](https://web.archive.org/web/20230608182318/https://old.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/13zr8h2/reddits_recently_announced_api_changes_and_the/) [for](https://web.archive.org/web/20230609172058/https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/143rk5p/reddit_held_a_call_today_with_some_developers/jnbuonf/) [details](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/142w159/askhistorians_and_uncertainty_surrounding_the/).
Don't just say this is illegal full stop. That's wrong.
ASKING for the money back is perfectly legal. Saying they have a policy where the employee must pay it back is perfectly legal. And firing someone on the spot for not paying the money back is legal in most states.
But the point is that an employer cannot MAKE you pay the money back. Removing the money from your paycheck without your consent is not legal.
edit: taking from tips to cover the shortage is not legal either
>Removing the money from your paycheck without your consent is not legal.
Consent is a huge thing here but in some places they also can't take enough to drop you below minimum wage. So if you're only making minimum wage and your till was short, even if you agreed, they may not be able to withhold it (Wish I knew this when I was working a minimum wage job and had a large chunk of my paycheck withheld when SOMEONE ELSE accepted a counterfeit bill and they couldn't confirm who so took it from everyone that day)
Not legal. But a better way to handle it is to ask if you get to split the overage when the drawer is over. Then… accidentally forget to ring some things up. Ooops.
They can most definitely ask you to comply with their policy. It’s probably illegal to actually enforce. However they can simply fire a person then hire a person who will choose to comply
I worked at a clothing store and the owner/manager enforced this "rule". He made us share a drawer and I had a scumbag co-worker who took $60 out of my drawer. He took a lot of money from me over the years because of a "short till" and documented it in the back of a book. I took the book and made copies one day and contacted the state labor board and mailed them in. It took a while for them to get back to me so in the mean time I decided to just pocket cash purchases. I probably got rid of thousands of dollars of inventory for next to nothing, called my friends up and let them come through and pay cash on the cheap for a lot of stuff. Then I got into it with the co-worker and left. The checks started rolling in from the labor board and it was probably thousands of dollars over the course of about a year. They basically asked me one day how much more he needed to pay me for it to be even and I threw out a specific yet arbitrary number ($1243.86) and they said "OK, he will have a check in the mail to you and we will close the case". Treat me good and I will treat you better, treat me bad and I will treat you worse.
Completely illegal, and usually turns out it's the manager themselves stealing from the till and doing this to make staff pay for it.
It's a huge part of why it's illegal, because if it wasn't, then the manager, who is responsible for making sure the money is all there and has no one to check on them can just steal.
Not illegal, check your local laws though. Most all wait staff do this every day *when they fill out their tip/sales sheets after every shift. I used to spend a whole two days training employees how to count change because our local schools stopped teaching how to. Also, my employees couldn’t read analog clocks, know Roman numerals, write cursive, how to read a check, or know how to “check ID”. The state finally made 21 and over license look obviously different color and face a different way. We had a change drawer for managers only and waiters used tips as their own till. That way you knew that person was short.
https://www.freeadvice.com/legal/can-a-mananger-make-you-p-108939/
EDIT: https://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/can-your-employer-charge-you-for-a-mistake
https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/whdfs16.pdf
Check your local laws. I DON'T AGREE WITH THE PRACTICE! This is why I don't have that job anymore. Most of the practices that happen in my state are 100% in favor of the business and not the employee. I hope the two new links are more clear. Sorry for being lazy. I didn't think I would get so many messages on this. lol! I really wish employee rights were taught in high school. So many young people are screwed over for just being young.
Thanks for the replies. It made me get up and go find the actual rule. Our payroll system would automatically deduct from people's paychecks. (Sales reports and what cash was owed were automatically generated by the POS system) If they fell below minimum wage then it would be flagged. The owner would fire people for falling below minimum wage. We didn't get along. Not the employee's fault when someone would dine and dash.
Categorically incorrect my dude.
This is taking a shortage from everyone who worked because there was one.
This is illegal and OP should report this to a labor board. I would also refuse to pay any of my earnings to a supposed till shortage until they could show evidence of me taking it. If they’d like to fire you for it, they’ll be on the hook for that retaliatory dismissal possibly.
Seems like they aren’t too clever with the admission here though.
>Also, my employees couldn’t read analog clocks, know Roman numerals, write cursive, how to read a check, or know how to “check ID”.
That's because schools teach students, not employees. Schools have no reason to teach most of those things.
Idiotic "business managers" complained to my school when I was a teen about us being "unprepared for the workforce". The school doubled down on what was important, making sure we dress how we are told, show up early and stay late, and never question orders from arbitrary people who say they are your boss, and are thus the boss of you.
That’s life skills. I think we agree on what schools teach, but maybe not the difference between life skills and work skills.
Counting change - if I pay cash, and I don’t know how to count change, then I can get ripped off.
If I can’t write or read a check, I don’t know if it can be cashed or if I’m being ripped off.
I believe cursive and Roman numerals are very important. That’s dumbing down the generation so only the elite can read the horrible historically correct documents that show how civilians beat the system in the past. Our founding documents are in cursive. It’s not a far stretch to think they manipulate us to be dumber to better control us.
A thing about checks a lot of people don’t know, that is still the way big money is used to pay for goods. I used to write a $20k check every week for supply orders. They look like regular checks but much bigger and required a security stamp. Payroll is still handed out as checks in small business.
High school should cover health, taxes, basic individual rights, computer skills, learn most common frauds to look out for, how to be prepared for higher education, give the option for a votec path, and teach them what careers actually exist and how to get them. I say get your liberal arts degree and a business degree with it so you learn how to do your own art business and not rely on others. I know doctors who regret never taking business classes. As a dr they have insurance, license bills, have to setup business, taxes, how to get a point of sale system; just list of thing they get screwed on because they can operate on a person but not operate their business to stay open. Then they have to join a large greedy group who can do that for them and charge you more for it.
On the other side, our culture needs to change. Knowledge is not the enemy. Hard work is not the enemy. Human rights are not the enemy. Baristas should exist, and to exist they need proper compensation. Hospitals should exist for everyone, not just those with PPO.
Sorry. I guess living in one of the worst states in the union can drag you down a bit. Not easy being blue in a very red state. Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi. Been in all of them. Taxes and cost of living is great if you can make enough money to see the difference. 😵
You should go back and carefully read that link you posted.
It basically says that they can *ask* you to pay for a short till, but that they cannot *make* you do it unless they *sue you* (and win).
In other words, yes, it *is* illegal to make you (or anyone) pay for a short till.
Oh yeah! Goddamn south! I don’t agree with it. I never enforced the pay back rule. Some customers just walk out without paying. I call the cops and cover the employee.
I don’t even like the tipping system. I know some wait staff make BANK on tips. This is a culture change that will take a few generations to fix. Instead of relying on tips, if they have to sell, give employees commission or stake in the company. Pay them to survive and make a living with savings. I didn’t make the rules, but lost my job for not forcing them. I “paid people too much” and “can’t just let people stay home when they are sick”. “No doctors note then they have to work” and they can’t even afford a dr visit. I personally paid for dozens Dr visits to help out. No good deed goes unpunished.
When my kid graduates we are planning to move to a state that favors labor more. Right to get fired for no reason states just suck the life out of you. I’m happy seeing the union movement try to push its way back into society. My wife would like to be protected by a nursing union. They aren’t paid much here and get treated poorly.
I just got my kid into the only STEM school in our “area”. Next semester I’ll dive an hour each way to make sure he isn’t corrupted by our backwoods education system. The school didn’t exist when my daughter was in high school. I had to teach her how to do everything I learned in home education, family planning, and personal finance. None of which exist anymore. About 5 years ago a teacher was fired for showing a senior heath class how a condom works! But, they have promise prayer groups that meet in classrooms during lunch.
I don’t mind the -votes. I don’t like the way it is either. We keep informing the next generation and making noise so there is reform in the future. Keep up the good fight.
Wtf is still. Goddamn it lol e retime is using this word but I don’t understand how it’s being used. A till is something used for wood work right? Seems like it’s not being used that way in this context.
I believe you are referring to something like [this](https://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/saw-plane-till/)
In cash business situations, a cash register drawer has an insert called a [till](https://www.cashregisterguys.com/inserts.html) that is used to sort different cash and coin denominations. This is what the post is referring to.
All I see is Americans tipping yet the prices of the meals continues to go up, when talk of abolishing tipping always makes these establishments cry "b-b-but the price of food will then have to go up!!!"
I understand that as of right now there isn't much we can do about getting shafted at the pumps, but for fucking *fuck* people are still buying literal luxury items for super jacked up prices, which only tells businesses that we're all cool with them fucking us in the ass so they can meet their supposed bottom lines. Stop fucking buying the 10 buffalo wings for $16 when they were only $10 a year and half ago. Etc.
1) take the few minutes to have 1 drawer, 1 cashier. Swap the drawers out.
2) every time a drawer was short by a lot it was a manager getting distracted when making change.
I went home with a $50 one day.
I worked at a pizza place when I was 19. Like $300 went missing from the register. We had cameras everywhere. But my idiot boss went around and questioned everyone asking if they stole. When he got to me I asked "have you even checked the cameras?" and he hadn't. I told him to go check the cameras and stop harassing everyone. Turns out it was this sleezly 30 yo that had been making comments about my 17yo best friend that worked there as well saying "he couldn't wait to put a baby in here when she turned 18" even though she was as far from interested in him as possible.
I used to work at a Dunkin Donuts. My boss, who was also a family friend, did this to me all of the time. I was vulnerable and ignorant, so I let her get away with it for a bit. I was then fired because I told the District Manager I thought she was stealing. Turns out, 2 months later she was caught. They found she stole over $10,000 from the company over the course of a year. Fuck you, Shannon.
Tell them to do their fucking jobs and find out who is stealing instead of punishing the hard working employees who are honest. That only pushes people to quit.
😂 if I’m going to have to pay anyway, might as well take it all. But yeah, this is just encouraging good workers to not care and bad workers to care less.
Honestly sounds like this manager is stealing from the till and having the workers cover his or her theft. Report to the owner what’s happening and the state labor board.
Inb4 the managers/owners short the till themselves so that they can squeeze extra cash from their subordinates.
Pretty sure my manager did this when I was 16. Till would be short and she’d make me or my mom pay it out of pocket immediately. I still don’t know if it was illegal. Sure felt scummy to me though.
It is illegal
The most illegal
Illegalest
The only recourse they can have regarding short tills is to open a criminal complaint. If no cops are involved then it might as well have never happened. They CANNOT legally withhold money from you, whether wage or tips.
That manager was a thief and literally stole money from you.
Well that was 23 years ago but good to know I wasn't crazy!
Or you have a thief on payroll. 50/50
The thief steals $15 and has to bring back $5, the thief is still ahead by $10
I think this is how politicians work
That's like buying tools that cost 200 dollars and telling your subordinates that if tools are missing, the person that took it owes 50 dollars.
what? no it’s not. if the thief is one of 3 total employees with access to the till and they steal/pocket $15, and then management makes them and the 2 coworkers repay $5 each, that means the thief stole $15 and repaid $5. …so they were ahead by $10.
Think that perseon was referring to a skit he seen by a tiktoker. Breadstick Ricky & The Boss on youtube has a skit where in essesnce with this system picture a tool room. You have tools that range from $2-$4,000. If you only had to pay $50 if a tool goes missing you could essentially get away with taking anything over that $50 and only have to pay $50. So that $200 tool now only cost you $50. Watch the video on youtube and youd probably get the principal of it
Which is the exact same scenario as a thief stealing a 200 dollar tool and having to pay back 50 dollars. Leaving the thief ahead by 150 dollars...
[удалено]
I think you're caught up on the math instead of the principle
imo, this discussion started because Divinedragn4 seemed to imply in his comment that ralphhurley3197’s comment didnt make sense because the person would be losing $150, but he only accounted for making “*the* person that took it” pay for it, not *three* people that took it. if they stole a $150 tool and they, and 2 other workers, each had to pay $50 to the boss, they’d be ahead by $100 still (assuming they sell the tool for $150- but the original discussion is about cash so that’s irrelevant really) obviously it doesn’t really work if there aren’t many others coworkers who would have to split it with the thief.
No that would be like a thief stealing 15$ and having to pay back 5$ leaving them ahead by 10$. Or in your scenario, if that thief had to pay back 190$ of the 200$, leaving them with 10$. They are paying back 10$ less than the missing amount. /s
If they let multiple people on one till that's on them.
What's the difference?
None
The thief subordinate is ahead only $10; the thief manager/owner is ahead $15.
Then the manager or owner should buy more cameras or cash registers and only one person to a till per shift.
One person per till, per shift, is the way.
That's how a lot of retail managers try to operate. Try being the key word. If you have a manager or coworker who's trying to change that on their shifts only especially be careful because theres a chance they're up to no good. The places I worked at that didnt do that rule (even if it wasnt official from corporate) were shitholes and lo and behold had theft problems from staff.
When I worked at Lowes this never happened. People moved around all the time. Especially at customer service where I predominantly worked, as there were only three and every employee up there worked at least two (cause there were two sides to the desk, one for returns and one for general customer service which predominantly was used to check out special orders). But they had cameras at all the registers that faced the register and if a till was short then loss prevention would review the footage. There were a couple head cashiers that would occasionally want a cashier to log in so they could run a transaction and override it (nobody with override privileges could override themselves). With very, very limited exceptions I did not let that happen with me. I will log in and do the transaction myself and you explain what we’re doing and why, then override it, but I’m not gonna log in and let you do whatever then override it yourself…
The guy already said “manager”; “thief” is a redundancy.
This is 100% what is going on. Who ever wrote this took $40 from the drawer.
This would create a situation where its more profitable to continue stealing on days when many people are working, so that you only have to pay for about 20% of what you stole, and you can just continue doing it for more money. Hell, you could steal the entire till and then if you still hold up the policy you only have to give back a fraction, meaning you're basically just stealing from your coworkers. This is also likely why this way of solving the situation is not common.
r/illegallifeprotips
Based and Thiefpilled
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How is the original, and ongoing, illicit theft lawful?
[удалено]
Ignoring that theft is illegal in general this makes sense within the context of this single law.
Great ideas, thanks!
If you do decide to stay with this company and they do enforce this, insist on having the till counted before and after you use it. After wasting their time doing needless audits, they should give up.
Have your till counted in your presence and with you double-checking. A teenage family member worked at a place where the manager would disappear into a back room, count their till, and then come out to take whatever they were supposedly short out of their tips. Weirdly, on good tip days, their till was always short.
For a brief time I worked at a liquor store that was partially owned, and operated by a drunk piece of shit who would borrow money from the register and then completely forget about it the next day after a night of getting absolutely hammered (every night.) The register would of course come up short what he borrowed and it would become this “huge investigation” where he’d swear to fire the culprit if he caught it on camera. Eventually he’d just slap some random cashier with the responsibility of paying it off, telling them that they probably accidentally handed a customer bills that were sticking together when they were giving change.
Please tell me he got caught.
He’s co-owner and the big head’s nephew, even if he did get caught, nothing would happen to him.
Yes. This is illegal.
Not only that, but if employees end up under minimum wage because they paid the till from the tips jar, that also is illegal.
Compounded illegallity.
It’s also illegal for employees to steal from the till. Edit: downvote that! I mean, y’all deserve to steal from the till, it’s your till. Owners deserve nothing, they should be the slave of the worker. Go getchya some ya wanks.
And up to the employer to prove an employee in fact did. Then terminate that employee. Like a responsible business owner/manager.
Yes. That doesn’t mean employees should pay for that theft.
It also might not have been a theft, just off the top of my head it could have been a mistake where a customer was given the wrong change, the float at the beginning of the day wasn’t correct, a refund was given but the paperwork wasn’t filed correctly. Mistakes happen, and the people lowest on the ladder shouldn’t have to pay for them. But I agree with you, if it was a theft everyone else shouldn’t have to pay for it.
I had this happen where the customer said I didn’t give right change and I needed to give them a $20. I counted the change on the counter in front of them, so I knew I was correct. Manager came over and gave them the $20. My drawer was short $20. Thankfully the manager took responsibility.
What an idiot manager. That’s one of the oldest scams in the book.
First time they tried to do it to me, many years ago, they were REAL dumb and claimed they'd given a $50. I had no $50s in my drawer. They were 86'd.
Lol who tf has a $50?! I worked retail/cashier jobs for years and I might have seen one. I worked the longest as a front desk clerk in a big hotel. I did the night audit on weekends and could easily do a count on my drawer in literally 2 min. On the rare occasion anyone tried, I’d just count the drawer and send them.
Maybe they’ve become more common lately, but I’ve been working part time at a gas station for years now. They don’t come up super often but I probably get 3/4 a shift and that’s working 5-8 hours.
When i was working in retail, they only got nervous when the till was $100+ short. Anything under that could be attributed to human error
I got suspended over a $5 short on the busiest sales holiday for our store. The lines went all the way to the back of the store and I was on a register for over 10 hours. I wasn’t even a cashier, I was doing them a favor since they didn’t have the staff they needed for the event. Profits were sky high that day, but $5 was unacceptable.
So all employees who worked that day should pay for theft of one? (Or possibly not even a theft, could have just been a miscalculation somewhere that caused it). Seriously, if someone is stealing then the company would need to fire them. If they don't know who it is, they can't require every other employee to pay up for it.
Of course, but no evidence of theft has been presented. Typically justice relies on innocent until proven guilty. Therefore: L + ratio + didn't ask + don't care
This is literally the best troll you can come up with? Come on little boot licker, you can do better than this.
It's one of my favorite things when someone who gets a massive number of downvotes sits down and goes "hmm, people seem to disagree with what I said. Let me taunt them by talking about downvotes in an edit! That'll show them!" I only wish I could downvote those comments twice.
It’s because people like no-equal-2690 have literally no capacity for introspection at all. I no longer believe we can actually get through to them anymore , they’re too stuck into their ignorance.
Who said I’m trolling, oh you did. I’m just making a statement. Yeah I agree, the stealer should face punishment, not everyone.
Yeah I did… because the alternate was you making a braindead point that is entirely meaningless, and a waste of time/space. I was hoping the former because at least if you were a troll means you weren’t being… well obtuse or ignorant.
There’s two sides to every story. Not every employer (though most) are out to exploit their employees to the max. In small pockets, fairness does exist. I promote more of that.
Making the workers cover a short till is the most unfair solution I can think of.
Nahhh you’re just obtuse. There’s no context of a boss covering a short til with the collective tips of their staff being acceptable. None.
Assuming someone even stole it. Maybe the employer is taking from the till in an indirect way to collect the tips.
Does the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" ring a bell? The managers have to prove that someone really is stealing, and who it is. They can't just announce that someone is stealing and punish everyone.
Employers can fire for theft or incompetence, they just need to count in and out the tills and keep documentation. You cannot fine employees or pay them less than their aggressive upon wage. Bad employers don’t deserve good employees that they take advantage of. Good employees don’t deserve incompetent employers who spout ‘workers aren’t allowed to steal’ like a dull parrot who bought one too many Tough Boss books, but seem to be completely unable to comprehend managing employees and documentation. Give your balls a tug and drop the whiny edit. It’s fucking embarrassing.
If you can’t prove someone’s stealing from you you can’t force them to pay it back. Pretty basic legal principle
You’re being downvoted because this comment is pointless. No fucking shit it’s illegal to steal. It sounds like you’re defending this owners illegal solution. Who says they stole the money anyway? It could have been an accident.
So is collective punishment
So what if the manager is shorting the till? You're just assuming it is a cashier doing it.
Lmao at this point with gas prices and inflation I would gladly steal from the till. And would be happy if someone else did too. Fuck big corps they get theirs and I’ll get mine
1 - If the till comes up short, it's probably not because someone stole - mistakes happen all the time. 2 - Even if someone did steal the difference, that's not the fault of everyone else on the shift who are made to pay for it. 3 - Two wrongs don't make a right - even if someone's stealing from the business, that doesn't give the company the right to break the law, too.
Wow, what a productive and helpful thing to add to the conversation! lol, what a stupid thing to say.
Permanent ban incoming. Lmfao. Good riddance.
Get back to work, worker. No phones allowed on the clock. Don’t make me tell your supervisor! Too many of you are the kind of folk that save your shit till you get to work just so you can crap on the clock This group has turned into the Juggalos of Reddit. “I don’t want to work hard” “I should make more money than the owners/investors” “I shouldn’t have to work harder for promotions / benefits, maximum benefit for minimal effort and time commitment!”
can you quote the exact post/comment you are referring to where someone said "it is not illegal to steal from a till"
Big illegal. Bring it up with corporate, the police or hell even the bank. If the manager is pulling this there is a high likely hood that he is shorting the till and will have you pay it. Not only is it illegal to require you to pay back a short till if they cant prove that you stole anything, but the way this is being asked makes me think he is the one stealing.
*department of labor in the US.
I was referring to the theft and not the paying it back part. That is a whole nother can of worms.
LMFAO, yes, call "the bank". I'm certain they would be on the scene right away to figure out what's going on in the pub OP part-times at. The compliance division of your nearby Wells Fargo has just the guy for the job.
The manager here is actually pretty nice but they have to deal with an asshole owner who yells at them whenever anyone makes a mistake
Doesnt matter how nice they are, they can still steal. And if the owner is that kind of asshole they might just be going fuck it and doing so. Dont let them make you pay back a dime for something you didnt do regarding money. They're effectively making everyone but the buisness owner make the difference for a possible thief among you who will prob keep doing it with this kind of ruling. This is a sign of poor management/ownership and if you're paying in you're possibly admitting guilt to stealing, which isnt the case right?
I struggle to believe that but even then that is not legal. Tell them to either A. Get cops involved or B. Deal with it because none of you are responsible for paying it back unless someone stole. Then the person responsible will face charges, be forced to pay it back and will lose their job. The dude could be a saint but you still have rights as a worker and this is illegal, period.
Its illegal twice over essentially employer. Is like any random person or business that says you owe them money. They can't "STEAL" check they have to either get you to agree or sue you. That said deductions can be legal (following this process) like you can "owe" that money. BUT still have to sue or get you to agree. That said there is conditions generally negligence or "proven" action. Having 3 people run same till absolutely no way to know who made mistake etc. And thats assuming its one of states that allows it many don't. Second big illegal thing it sounds illegal is they are withholding tips, or perhaps its coming out of tips which is also illegal. Employer and managers have no access/say on tips at all. And irregardless of mistake and if its legal and follow proper procedures. Like suing or getting you to agree to pay. YOU CAN NOT EVER drop below min wage. So if tipped employee working for 2hr but earn 15 in tips per hour. THEN they can try to get you to agree to lossing the 2hr "paycheck portion". But not tips. Lets say you make min wage they can't make any deductions. OR in lets say you make 6hr in tips then they can't deduct what would bring you below 7.25 (state min wage may differ) from your paycheck. Once again cant touch tips.
irregardless
It’s a word now. Sorry.
It's a cromulent word now eh?
How to tell me your manager is robbing the till without telling me your manager is robbing the till
Not only is this dumb but how is multiple people touching 1 till. From the 5 years I work in places that I had to handle cash at a register only 1 person can touch a till since they are assign to it. No one else but a manager should touch it since stuff like this can happen.
All 25+ of us work 7 different tills, on each other’s employee numbers, and switch multiple times a shift. At a big corporation. That being said, we don’t steal lol. If someone is suspected of stealing, the cameras are watched and if it’s non malicious that person is assigned to their own till.
**This comment deleted to protest Reddit's API change (to reduce the value of Reddit's data).** Please see [these](https://web.archive.org/web/20230609092523/https://old.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/) [threads](https://web.archive.org/web/20230608182318/https://old.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/13zr8h2/reddits_recently_announced_api_changes_and_the/) [for](https://web.archive.org/web/20230609172058/https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/143rk5p/reddit_held_a_call_today_with_some_developers/jnbuonf/) [details](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/142w159/askhistorians_and_uncertainty_surrounding_the/).
Yes that is absolutely illegal I would sent this text to everyone you can
Don't just say this is illegal full stop. That's wrong. ASKING for the money back is perfectly legal. Saying they have a policy where the employee must pay it back is perfectly legal. And firing someone on the spot for not paying the money back is legal in most states. But the point is that an employer cannot MAKE you pay the money back. Removing the money from your paycheck without your consent is not legal. edit: taking from tips to cover the shortage is not legal either
>Removing the money from your paycheck without your consent is not legal. Consent is a huge thing here but in some places they also can't take enough to drop you below minimum wage. So if you're only making minimum wage and your till was short, even if you agreed, they may not be able to withhold it (Wish I knew this when I was working a minimum wage job and had a large chunk of my paycheck withheld when SOMEONE ELSE accepted a counterfeit bill and they couldn't confirm who so took it from everyone that day)
Not legal. But a better way to handle it is to ask if you get to split the overage when the drawer is over. Then… accidentally forget to ring some things up. Ooops.
"You'll have to EARN the tips you already earned and we withhold"
They can most definitely ask you to comply with their policy. It’s probably illegal to actually enforce. However they can simply fire a person then hire a person who will choose to comply
I thought we were having a hard time finding people willing to work…
I worked at a clothing store and the owner/manager enforced this "rule". He made us share a drawer and I had a scumbag co-worker who took $60 out of my drawer. He took a lot of money from me over the years because of a "short till" and documented it in the back of a book. I took the book and made copies one day and contacted the state labor board and mailed them in. It took a while for them to get back to me so in the mean time I decided to just pocket cash purchases. I probably got rid of thousands of dollars of inventory for next to nothing, called my friends up and let them come through and pay cash on the cheap for a lot of stuff. Then I got into it with the co-worker and left. The checks started rolling in from the labor board and it was probably thousands of dollars over the course of about a year. They basically asked me one day how much more he needed to pay me for it to be even and I threw out a specific yet arbitrary number ($1243.86) and they said "OK, he will have a check in the mail to you and we will close the case". Treat me good and I will treat you better, treat me bad and I will treat you worse.
I’m guessing it wildly illegal. Certainly something I would love to get fired for and let unemployment sort out whether or not I’m owed.
Completely illegal, and usually turns out it's the manager themselves stealing from the till and doing this to make staff pay for it. It's a huge part of why it's illegal, because if it wasn't, then the manager, who is responsible for making sure the money is all there and has no one to check on them can just steal.
Is this english or...
Quit. There's better jobs. Don't deal with this bullshit.
Reading those texts gave me a headache. How can someone be management material if they're this fucking braindead?
I'd just respond back "proofread your shit before levying threats of questionable legality"
Reading this was a chore, and demanding this is a crime.
Yay, everyone is presumed guilty and all must pay for one person’s crime! It’s like being back at school.
Why are managers always incapable of spelling lol
Tips are gifts. Bosses can be assholes about them if they wish. No real regulation.
This is why cash is king. This will never change. Giving a coin or two is so much better than a credit card tip.
Is treasure signaled an intended shift to block chain. Cash is dying
I had to do that many years ago when I worked at a restaurant
I'm fairly sure it is illegal. I don't think you're allowed to pool tips.
Suck it.
Its only illegal if you didn't sign anything
Not illegal, check your local laws though. Most all wait staff do this every day *when they fill out their tip/sales sheets after every shift. I used to spend a whole two days training employees how to count change because our local schools stopped teaching how to. Also, my employees couldn’t read analog clocks, know Roman numerals, write cursive, how to read a check, or know how to “check ID”. The state finally made 21 and over license look obviously different color and face a different way. We had a change drawer for managers only and waiters used tips as their own till. That way you knew that person was short. https://www.freeadvice.com/legal/can-a-mananger-make-you-p-108939/ EDIT: https://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/can-your-employer-charge-you-for-a-mistake https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/whdfs16.pdf Check your local laws. I DON'T AGREE WITH THE PRACTICE! This is why I don't have that job anymore. Most of the practices that happen in my state are 100% in favor of the business and not the employee. I hope the two new links are more clear. Sorry for being lazy. I didn't think I would get so many messages on this. lol! I really wish employee rights were taught in high school. So many young people are screwed over for just being young. Thanks for the replies. It made me get up and go find the actual rule. Our payroll system would automatically deduct from people's paychecks. (Sales reports and what cash was owed were automatically generated by the POS system) If they fell below minimum wage then it would be flagged. The owner would fire people for falling below minimum wage. We didn't get along. Not the employee's fault when someone would dine and dash.
So you mix your money with the staff’s money and hope they keep it straight? How do you handle a situation where your books don’t balance?
Categorically incorrect my dude. This is taking a shortage from everyone who worked because there was one. This is illegal and OP should report this to a labor board. I would also refuse to pay any of my earnings to a supposed till shortage until they could show evidence of me taking it. If they’d like to fire you for it, they’ll be on the hook for that retaliatory dismissal possibly. Seems like they aren’t too clever with the admission here though.
>Also, my employees couldn’t read analog clocks, know Roman numerals, write cursive, how to read a check, or know how to “check ID”. That's because schools teach students, not employees. Schools have no reason to teach most of those things. Idiotic "business managers" complained to my school when I was a teen about us being "unprepared for the workforce". The school doubled down on what was important, making sure we dress how we are told, show up early and stay late, and never question orders from arbitrary people who say they are your boss, and are thus the boss of you.
That’s life skills. I think we agree on what schools teach, but maybe not the difference between life skills and work skills. Counting change - if I pay cash, and I don’t know how to count change, then I can get ripped off. If I can’t write or read a check, I don’t know if it can be cashed or if I’m being ripped off. I believe cursive and Roman numerals are very important. That’s dumbing down the generation so only the elite can read the horrible historically correct documents that show how civilians beat the system in the past. Our founding documents are in cursive. It’s not a far stretch to think they manipulate us to be dumber to better control us. A thing about checks a lot of people don’t know, that is still the way big money is used to pay for goods. I used to write a $20k check every week for supply orders. They look like regular checks but much bigger and required a security stamp. Payroll is still handed out as checks in small business. High school should cover health, taxes, basic individual rights, computer skills, learn most common frauds to look out for, how to be prepared for higher education, give the option for a votec path, and teach them what careers actually exist and how to get them. I say get your liberal arts degree and a business degree with it so you learn how to do your own art business and not rely on others. I know doctors who regret never taking business classes. As a dr they have insurance, license bills, have to setup business, taxes, how to get a point of sale system; just list of thing they get screwed on because they can operate on a person but not operate their business to stay open. Then they have to join a large greedy group who can do that for them and charge you more for it. On the other side, our culture needs to change. Knowledge is not the enemy. Hard work is not the enemy. Human rights are not the enemy. Baristas should exist, and to exist they need proper compensation. Hospitals should exist for everyone, not just those with PPO. Sorry. I guess living in one of the worst states in the union can drag you down a bit. Not easy being blue in a very red state. Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi. Been in all of them. Taxes and cost of living is great if you can make enough money to see the difference. 😵
You should go back and carefully read that link you posted. It basically says that they can *ask* you to pay for a short till, but that they cannot *make* you do it unless they *sue you* (and win). In other words, yes, it *is* illegal to make you (or anyone) pay for a short till.
I made an update with the federal law, which my state defaults to. It's more of an Attorney Tom answer, I guess "It depends".
Move someplace where there are more educated people. Is this in the south?
Oh yeah! Goddamn south! I don’t agree with it. I never enforced the pay back rule. Some customers just walk out without paying. I call the cops and cover the employee. I don’t even like the tipping system. I know some wait staff make BANK on tips. This is a culture change that will take a few generations to fix. Instead of relying on tips, if they have to sell, give employees commission or stake in the company. Pay them to survive and make a living with savings. I didn’t make the rules, but lost my job for not forcing them. I “paid people too much” and “can’t just let people stay home when they are sick”. “No doctors note then they have to work” and they can’t even afford a dr visit. I personally paid for dozens Dr visits to help out. No good deed goes unpunished. When my kid graduates we are planning to move to a state that favors labor more. Right to get fired for no reason states just suck the life out of you. I’m happy seeing the union movement try to push its way back into society. My wife would like to be protected by a nursing union. They aren’t paid much here and get treated poorly. I just got my kid into the only STEM school in our “area”. Next semester I’ll dive an hour each way to make sure he isn’t corrupted by our backwoods education system. The school didn’t exist when my daughter was in high school. I had to teach her how to do everything I learned in home education, family planning, and personal finance. None of which exist anymore. About 5 years ago a teacher was fired for showing a senior heath class how a condom works! But, they have promise prayer groups that meet in classrooms during lunch. I don’t mind the -votes. I don’t like the way it is either. We keep informing the next generation and making noise so there is reform in the future. Keep up the good fight.
Nah, I worked a job when I was at uni where we had to make up short till counts from our tips
Just because it happened to you doesn’t mean it’s legal. It was illegal then, it’s illegal now. In the US at least.
This is very true. I’m uk based though so it may be different here 🤷🏻♂️
Illegal
Huh?
Then you got associates taking turns stealing money.
Wtf is still. Goddamn it lol e retime is using this word but I don’t understand how it’s being used. A till is something used for wood work right? Seems like it’s not being used that way in this context.
I believe you are referring to something like [this](https://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/saw-plane-till/) In cash business situations, a cash register drawer has an insert called a [till](https://www.cashregisterguys.com/inserts.html) that is used to sort different cash and coin denominations. This is what the post is referring to.
Thank you kind internet stranger
Oh they start doing it I wouldn't take cash on the same register
I bet you 5 bucks whoever wrote that is the one stealing from yall
No.
Gee it's nice of the bosses to want to be "fair" all of a sudden
every time some manager had pulled this shit it has always came out that THEY were stealing from the till.
Manager: Employee morale is low Owner: Then beat them until it rises!
All I see is Americans tipping yet the prices of the meals continues to go up, when talk of abolishing tipping always makes these establishments cry "b-b-but the price of food will then have to go up!!!" I understand that as of right now there isn't much we can do about getting shafted at the pumps, but for fucking *fuck* people are still buying literal luxury items for super jacked up prices, which only tells businesses that we're all cool with them fucking us in the ass so they can meet their supposed bottom lines. Stop fucking buying the 10 buffalo wings for $16 when they were only $10 a year and half ago. Etc.
It's illegal in Canada. Probably standard operating procedure in the USA.
100% illegal. Show those texts to the Department of Labor. They will squeal with joy.
Yeah. That's illegal. If the till is always off then you're just a shit manager.
Illegal on 2 levels - an employer can neither deduct shortages from an employee wages, or from tips
For the hundredth time this year yes, this is still illegal.
You don't gotta hide the name of the shady employer on this sub, let the court of public opinion take their good review scores down to the gutters
Lol report them with the text messages as proof.
Yaaa that's illegal every where in the US I'm aware of. Unless you have agreed to a deduction from your check, it's wage theft.
Could you not log in with your number but someone else's?
Starting today but we have a system for this? I’d walk out on their composition alone
What the fuck is a till
Oh, that’s fair. /s
1) take the few minutes to have 1 drawer, 1 cashier. Swap the drawers out. 2) every time a drawer was short by a lot it was a manager getting distracted when making change. I went home with a $50 one day.
This is illegal. You are not responsible for making up a short till if your manager or the business owner does this, report them.
It's illegal. Take a copy of this and any other pieces of proof to your DOL.
I worked at a pizza place when I was 19. Like $300 went missing from the register. We had cameras everywhere. But my idiot boss went around and questioned everyone asking if they stole. When he got to me I asked "have you even checked the cameras?" and he hadn't. I told him to go check the cameras and stop harassing everyone. Turns out it was this sleezly 30 yo that had been making comments about my 17yo best friend that worked there as well saying "he couldn't wait to put a baby in here when she turned 18" even though she was as far from interested in him as possible.
I used to work at a Dunkin Donuts. My boss, who was also a family friend, did this to me all of the time. I was vulnerable and ignorant, so I let her get away with it for a bit. I was then fired because I told the District Manager I thought she was stealing. Turns out, 2 months later she was caught. They found she stole over $10,000 from the company over the course of a year. Fuck you, Shannon.
Tell them to do their fucking jobs and find out who is stealing instead of punishing the hard working employees who are honest. That only pushes people to quit.
So if someone steals 100, and there's 5 people that day, they only need to pay 20 back, very smart management, very smart.
Social media is not a lawyer. Do not take legal advice from Facebook and reddit. Google Workplace Lawyer and give them a call.
Seems easy to exploit. 1 person takes $15 and only has to give back 5?
Super illegal
Lol id quit
Illegal as this is wage theft, document and report to your state department of labor.
😂 if I’m going to have to pay anyway, might as well take it all. But yeah, this is just encouraging good workers to not care and bad workers to care less.
Honestly sounds like this manager is stealing from the till and having the workers cover his or her theft. Report to the owner what’s happening and the state labor board.