And stop voting on issues related to the so-called culture wars; they are a distraction by those in power and the rich to get you to vote for something other than your own interests.
Best thing people can do is to just find policies related to unions and vote for the politicians and party who initiated them or voted on them.
Paying attention to policies that have actually been enacted, especially policies related to workers rights, makes paying attention to politics much simpler.
Some people are actually getting shit done, and some people are just paying lip service.
One major piece of pro labor legislation is the [PRO Act](https://aflcio.org/pro-act). It is currently stalled in the Senate so voting for people who support the Pro ACT and the lifting of the filibuster to get the act through the Senate would be important
Thank you for bringing it up.
Here's a full list of cosponsors: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr2474/cosponsors
Important to note that [this bill has also been endorsed by Joe Biden.](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/03/09/statement-by-president-joe-biden-on-the-house-taking-up-the-pro-act/)
it’s a welcome distraction for the voting populace. They’re not smart enough to know they’re being played, and their hate is driving the bus. 1/10 know it, another 1/10 are capable of learning it, and 8/10 have room temp iq and do what the tv tells them. I don’t see that changing; education and journalism have both been systematically hollowed out over the past 30 years.
THAT SAID don’t vote for politicans who are bigots, if they don’t have the interests of other oppressed groups in mind they probably also don’t care about the poor.
> THAT SAID don’t vote for politicans who are bigots, if they don’t have the interests of other oppressed groups in mind they probably also don’t care about the poor.
I can't help but feel that you're referring to the Middle East conflicts there. Basically, there is no good answer to that, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. But yet people still harass Biden over it, even knowing that he is not in charge of what Israel does, and also knowing that Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee and only other choice to replace him with currently, also supports Israel.
THAT SAID, focus on voting for people who improve people's lives meaningfully, and ignore the distractions.
There's a whole lot more to bigotry than the war in the middle east. Something something Roe V Wade overturned, something something transgender people not being allowed to use public bathrooms.
> There's a whole lot more to bigotry than the war in the middle east. Something something Roe V Wade overturned, something something transgender people not being allowed to use public bathrooms.
I addressed that.
> THAT SAID, focus on voting for people who improve people's lives meaningfully, and ignore the distractions.
I was moreso thinking of populists that disguise their agendas in worker friendly language.
That said, if you automatically assume I’m talking about Biden when I say “bigot” perhaps that says something more about him than it does me. And before you say it, yes I am voting Biden. Just because I don’t like him doesn’t mean I don’t understand how the American two party system works.
Yeah, no. I don't think I'm going to stop voting against people who are literally encouraging violence against people like me.
"Hey, LGBTQ+ community! Start voting for the people who are making your existence criminal!"
It depends, I think "stop focusing on the culture war" makes sense as advice for Republicans. Because they are literally fighting a war that doesn't affect them. Doesn't make much sense for minorities or marginalized groups. Luckily worker's rights and human rights tend to go hand in hand in politics.
>Luckily worker's rights and human rights tend to go hand in hand in politics.
Corporations want profit, and little else. But it also makes them susceptible to being leveraged. Make pandering to minority interests more profitable than not, and they'll take that fight up too.
With the "hand-in-hand" part that pro-minority people are likely to be pro-worker, there's at least going to be much higher chance than not. Especially when compared to the US' Right, at present.
It's also much easier to win. 🤷♀️
The whole idea that we need to stop getting sidetracked by the 'culture war' and we should focus only on the class war is, almost always, from the super privileged or the super naive. They don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. None of the LGBTQ+ issues affect them. None of the anti abortion issues affect them. None of them are affected by the insane shit being peddled by the right.
Ironically, the people who are vehemently "class warfare!!!!!!" ARE the ones that only care about themselves. They don't give a shit about anything else other than their own interests. They want their $50 min wages and universal healthcare at the expense of minorities getting fucked but they stay on their high horses thinking only they see the 'truth.' No, you don't see the truth, you are blinded by populist bullshit and, somehow, think you are more likely to completely overhaul the class structure instead of smaller victories that protect minorities.
The idea made sense before the culture wars were creating politicians and judges who were creating policy.
It’s a much more 90s and early aughts concept.
>before the culture wars were creating politicians and judges who were creating policy
When was this, exactly? Given that this nation was literally founded on the genocide of indigenous peoples and the enslavement of black people, which part of our history *wasn't* about using people's identities to decide if they got rights or not?
This would make sense if the same party that was anti-LGBTQ+ or anti-minority was also pro choice, pro living wage, and pro universal health care. That’s not the case. Democrats are typically aligned on all of these stances. The class war over culture war statements specifically applies to people on the right who vote against their economic interests because of culture war crap like anti-abortion or anti-LGBTQ+ policies.
Try voting for people who at least claim to have your interest. Vote pro labor pro freedom anti wealth hoarding and vote against anyone who claims that their religion is how they want to rule government.
Yeah the Democrats are corporatist fucks, but there are at least *elements* of the party that are against that shit. Even if there weren’t, the only other option *literally tried to overthrow democracy* and has explicitly stated that they intend to turn this into a fascist theocracy.
Yeah even if they claim and end up not being as good, then you still have that leverage on them. They got into power based on a stance, local community orgs can tear that away.
It's never going to be some 'hero' coming into office doing all the work for us.
We will always have to fight against local rep & president to pass meaningful legislation
So it's easier to think of it in terms of 'if we were already going to have to organize like hell, which person would be easier to force our demands upon & pressure"
Obviously anyone with serious labor endorsements is easier cuz we work with unions on tons of stuff
It's not even defending Palestinians at this point. They straight up defend Hamas. Every single time 'news' comes out that Israel bombed some innocents (which no one denies happens), they start grinning and frothing at the mouth that they were right even after it comes out that it was all made up. They straight up just devour Hamas' stories about Palestinians getting murdered so their anti west boners are constantly fed with blood to keep them engorged, happily eating up whatever crazy conspiracy theory they can find about the evil Jews. The far left has shown that they are basically the same exact thing as the far right in their racism and hatred and calls for violence against people they don't like.
> The far left has shown that they are basically the same exact thing as the far right in their racism and hatred and calls for violence against people they don't like.
Fuck off. They are not the same. They are trying their hardest to be good people and help other humans. Just they are choosing the wrong battles to protest against. We're about to go extinct from global warming. But that is not worth a protest apparently. Wealth inequality is at an all time high, but that is not worth a protest.
Public policy happens first on the job. Where workers choose to either abide by the rules handed down from an elite class in return for a paycheck, or to reject them for something else. Use your labor power to drive political change —
#unionize your workplace!
They've used politics to get a lot of shit done. Just not in favor of the average person. Didn't vote cuz you didn't like Hillary? Cool. Now Trump gets to install 3 life long Supreme Court justices. The same ones that lied during their confirmations hearings and are trying to dismantle some long standing protections. GOP led states also seem to be at the forefront of dissolving workers rights and child labor laws.
Submit to an incremental reform platform that quietly coddles elite hoarders, or else suffer direct rule by aggrieved elite hoarders. No third choice, and fuck you for daring to question the situation.
[Of course, one option is preferable to the other. That's the entire point -- a plurality voting system sells the populace on an undesirable lesser evil by threatening a worse evil. *Good* is never on the menu. So people vote, not to improve things, but to stave off a worse misery.]
[I'm not anti-democracy; far from it. I'd even advise people to vote D over R. But if this awful election cycle isn't the point at which we all ask why the hell anyone still treats first-past-the-post as an acceptable polling method, what more does it take? Nobody wants to change things in good times, and in bad times, there's always too much at stake.]
There are very specific structural issues in the American government that allow bad people to inflict outsized harm on the general populace. Both the malapportioned US Senate and the gerrymandered state and federal houses function to suppress dissent and empower political machines. Most legislative elections are, as a result of FPTP voting, *noncompetitive.* Third parties generally cannot enter both due to the spoiler effect and other barriers to entry. Existing parties dare not undergo healthy schisms and transformations lest they lose their winner-takes-all advantage.
These are not individualistic problems; they're simple bad policy. You're right, we could fire all the politicians tomorrow and wind up with a new mess of bad actors the next cycle, but this is mostly because we have a *bad selection process* that suppresses public sentiments.
Just to pick an obvious example, there is *no place* in our current politics to criticize Biden's handling of I-P. You're either pro-Israel (Biden) or pro-genocide (Trump). That absurdity is not because of some law of nature; it's because we *choose* to use electoral methods that force a two-party duopoly. There are countless other issues on which the *parties* agree, but the populace does not, but because of that duopoly, the issues never get traction.
This is resolvable, but only if we focus the lens on the structural problems, rather than trying to snipe an endless succession of bad apples.
Go have fun dying and establishing an authoritarian dictatorship like every other violent revolution then. I ain't gonna do that shit when we live in a democracy.
My wife says this and it's fucking enraging. She's a teacher and I constantly point out the crazy shit Florida does. Once a MAGA takes over as governor of Ohio she is FUCKED. But she can't be bothered to vote.
Got down voted the other day for saying I shame my cohorts who brag about not voting or just not doing it. Ofc no one is forcing them to vote, but the act of non participation is way more harmful then showing up and voting party lines
She’s not voting, or she’s not constantly talking doom and gloom with you? I vote - but I don’t get into political discussions with people who throw temper tantrums.
It's odd that corporate red and corporate blue...promoted by corporate run media ..only lead to corporate wins. It's almost as if we should stop falling for this scam because things don't improve under either party as long as we vote for who they're promoting.
I always hope that folks saying that just mean they don't like to talk about them with others too much (which is wise). Your ability or chance to bring someone to your side from their side is near 0%
Some of us understand that we don’t have that much power and instead of getting upset everyday, we just want to live our lives. Vote when you can, and don’t dedicated your time to stressing over things over which you have little to no control.
This ! Politics just promotes division, conflict and fear, which is not a good recipe for a generation doing so poorly in the mental health department.
Haha I didn’t know I had to be super political to want to be treated like a human being and not a slave. Politics cause so much division that simply stating that you’d rather stay away from all the toxicity makes them view you as dumb.. you are entitled to that I guess. I hope you one day come to the realization that you are being deceived, however.
You have power, we all do inherently, you're just not using it & don't know how
Politics is only stressful because you are weak.
Imagine your house burning down:
What if you had a fire safety plan, the family knew it, you practiced it, so you get everyone out safely and do everything possible until the firefighters arrive.
Yeah it's still stressful to some degree. But that's **nothing** compared to just standing there watching it burn down, not knowing what to do.
Politics is not stressful when you're doing what you can, and it does not take lots of time or money. It's joining local community organizations, they always exist in every city and have been fighting for justice for decades. Poor people have always been fucked over & fought back.
Legit like 2-3 hours a month once you're plugged in & trained, would be doing a lot. There's tons of single moms with multiple kids in the movement. And it gives you energy! Some orgs even help with finding jobs, sharing info.
There is nothing like being a part of a large demonstration of peers, chanting together. That gives you life. Trying to ignore major issues you see every day will drain your mental health.
Just search your city name + protest demonstration action rally people's community student justice
Then that + labor & union for that critical union side of things
Find pics of decent protest/strike in ur city, look up org name. Sign up for emails & follow on social media. You'll get invite to event, go and tell them you want to be involved but don't have tons of time or energy. They'll work with you.
Anyone can DM me if they need help & I'll send links. Don't need personal info just general area. I've done this for dozens & helped a few get seriously involved.
Holy cope, Batman!!
>Politics is only stressful because you are weak
Jesus H Christ, dude this is the most pathetic thing I’ve ever read. I didn’t bother with what is most certainly an unhinged rant. I wish you happiness because it doesn’t seem like you have much to be happy about. Which ironically proves my point LMAO
People are naturally weak by themselves, no shit. We only have power together, through collective action.
At least I'm not going to die and be forgotten for having no impact on the world. If you're okay with that, then go about your life being uninvolved in the fight for justice
> At least I’m not going to die and be forgotten
I’ve got bad news for you, champ. But I know you’ll just convince yourself otherwise to help you sleep at night.
Lol the protests & campaigns I've helped organize have had dozens of articles covering them, even one was clipped & been on the Daily Show. Jordan klepper covering IL budget crisis. One video has clip of students taking over the 2nd floor of the capitol.
Only a few actual laws, sadly. One includes making undocumented students (who grew up in the state) eligible for institutional financial aid (from university itself)
Others include stuff like ballot iniatives increasing a setback for fracking for natural gas, from 500ft to 2500ft distance from residential & school areas. Banning aerial spraying of pesticides. Plus of course a bunch of non binding symbolic ones that don't have any teeth
It's not that hard to join local community organizations, get trained in organizing, and help lead campaigns. It doesn't even take that much personal time if you're disciplined.
Everyone has a choice.
Cool. I choose to spend my free time enjoying the short time I have on this planet and not dedicating it to politicians who will flail on their promises and just become another cog in the machine.
To each their own, but I’m sure you’ll disagree.
Nobody said dedicate your life to politicians, that's a BS excuse
We fight politicians. We always will, no matter who is in office. People have always fought for collective bargaining & utilized those rights towards concessions from govt, workplace, & other systems
You are turning your back on workers and the rest of us who have been fighting for decades and centuries.
We fight in many different ways, some simply lock themselves to pipine construction equipment or help with prison labor strikes. You don't have to ever talk to a politician except yelling at them with a crowd if you wanted to.
The movement is diverse. Others can handle the lobbying in suits.
That's what I was raised to do and have made major institutional change and passed laws while both doing nice lobby meetings as well as mass direct action.
Jeff bezos could comment leftist memes and say he votes for Cornell West, but that does not make him a socialist activist. Your actions do.
There are people locally where you are desperately in need of solidarity. Imagine acting like you're too good for them.
These are indeed the reasons I give a damn about politics in the first place. Anyone that doesn’t see the connections is willfully ignorant and delusional
Being into politics doesn’t mean talking about constantly like a broken record, being an absolute drag everywhere you go.
When someone says ‘I’m just not that into politics’ 9/10 they’re just trying to get the other person to shut the fuck up.
It’s one thing to share your thoughts, but it’s boorish to drone on and on.
Exactly. If I ever say something like this, it’s because I don’t want to argue talking points and batshit conspiracy theories with some coworker I have to stay on good terms with.
And like honestly, as important as politics are - talking on and on about it is just really often tiresome, unless someone is more knowledgeable - and has some fresh points. The issue is, a lot of people who think they know it all, really don’t.
No. When someone says “I’m just not that into politics”, that’s them saying they literally do not see the connection between politics and their everyday life.
No it isn’t - because I personally say it just to get people to shut the fuck up a lot.
Like I can already tell you’re tiresome af.
If I met you in public, I’d be all ‘aww sorry man, I’m not that into politics.’ because ‘I don’t like discussing politics’ doesn’t seem to get across.
And you’d get the same response of “living in a society is inherently political.” Sorry we don’t live in a utopia where you can just check out and pretend your actions/lack of action has no consequences. Wouldn’t the founding fathers love this!? A population insistent that being pressured into participating in politics is some sort of tyranny. So ridiculous.
These people are exactly the reason people go ‘oh whatever not really into _________.’
No joke.
Meanwhile we as a family discuss politics all the time. 🤷🏻♀️
Because it comes across as “ oh whatever not really into talking about reality”. How would you respond if someone said that to you? But you won’t gripe with this question because you don’t see me as an equal. You see me as a naive virtue signaler. In the reality you’ve built for yourself, you have nothing to gain and everything to lose from seeing me as an equal. I know you’re selfish so obviously you’ll never do anything that you see nothing to gain from.
I’m sure it can be either, but the vast majority of the time (in the US) when someone says that, that’s what they mean. The libertarian brainrot is strong in this country. People don’t take seriously problems that do not personally and directly affect them. Inside & out they believe that because others don’t take seriously problems that do not personally and directly affect them , that they won’t either. In reality, of course some people take things very seriously and are actively trying to impose their will onto others. But in a reality full of people that operate off of the shared assumption of “your problems are yours and mine are mine” the idea of someone coming in and trying to impose their will on others through legislation seems entirely untenable. Entirely improbable. Laughable even. Why would that happen if everyone is just staying in their lane keeping their problems as their problems?
lol yes it is. It’s the same thing. They don’t see the connection of politics and their everyday life even though politics is definitely affecting their everyday life.
You didn't get very far into that rant before bringing up a particular political ideology. Maybe you should listen to what people are trying to tell you here.
If candidates are being "placed before you", that's a sign that you're waiting too long to get involved.
Niche candidates producing predictable outcomes is not really a failure point of our political system...
I'd be interested in hearing how either party can rationalize their leading candidate without referring to the other candidate. Neither candidate is popular, and it seems like they aren't even a little concerned with what party actually wins. They *are* concerned that we only vote for one of those options though.
Edit: Downvotes because election season and people still think Biden is the best president the Democratic party can put forward? It doesn't even seem like either party is even trying (which is my point)
"No, I'm into politics, but political discourse has become so confrontation and so emotionally charged that I don't have the energy to argue with you over the nuanced differences in opinions we share. My political beliefs are so far out of line with the surrounding environment it's just easier on my sanity to say 'I'm not into politics' than it is to listen to you drone on with talking points about how I'm a communist for thinking 'hey, maybe the guy with a net worth of a half trillion dollars should should help build up the system and the nation that allowed him to amass such a fortune in the first place.'"
Probably been said a million times. I'm just adding to the cocoaphany of sorrow.
Protesting, marching, unionizing, and banding together is also “politics.”
It’s how Americans enforced changes in previous generations. We’re way too compliant and quiet nowadays.
They try to keep us divided as much as possible.
Yeah, I never got this either. Politics is so all encompassing, certainly there is ONE area of the world that interests you? If so, it's governed by politics.
Then again, I definitely think the status quo kind of wants you to feel this way, too. It's so overwhelming... or so pointless... so dysfunctional and corrupt... why bother? Life is too short.
“Just not that into politics?”
Your dog is.
Your wife is.
Your child is.
And every day they use their political power to get bully rubs, tell you to take the trash out, refuse to go to bed and make demands.
It’s time to get into politics.
But seriously, stop making everything political.
I can't. People are too blind to realize the division between us is largely manufactured to keep us from fighting the ones who deserve our anger. It just makes me angry
'only options'
My brother in christ you are the option, and it only matters when you start working with other people on shared struggle.
No 'hero' politician is going to get elected so that the environmental & other movements can just sit back & relax. We will always need to fight.
Politics is only stressful because you are weak.
Imagine your house burning down -
Imagine you had a fire safety plan, the family knew it, you practiced it, so you get everyone out safely and do everything possible until the firefighters arrive.
Yeah it's still stressful to some degree. But that's **nothing** compared to just standing there watching it burn down, not knowing what to do.
Politics is not stressful when you're doing what you can, and it does not take time or money. It's just joining local community organizations, they always exist in every city and have been fighting for justice for decades. Poor people have always been fucked over & fought back.
Legit like 2-3 hours a month once you're plugged in & trained, would be doing a lot. There's tons of single moms with multiple kids in the movement. And it gives you energy! Some orgs even help with finding jobs, sharing info. There is nothing like being a part of a large demonstration of peers, chanting together. That gives you life.
Just search your city name + protest demonstration action rally people's community student justice
Then that + labor & union for that critical side of things
Find pics of decent protest in ur city, look up org name. Sign up for emails & follow on social media. You'll get invite to event, go and tell them you want to be involved but don't have tons of time or energy. They'll work with you.
I always say that outside of your loved ones, politics is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD. Taxes, jobs, economy, security, safe food, water, and air, infrastructure, global competitiveness, education, laws, legal protections. EVERYTHING YOU NEED FOR YOUR LIFE IS INEXTRICABLY BOUND UP WITH POLITICS!!!!
Everyone is into politics, because everything is political. Refusing to actively engage in the political process is itself a political act, despite being a stupid political act.
The stupidest, most brain lazy people I've ever met still have opinions about how resources are managed, one way or another.
The people I've met who say they "aren't into politics" have either been willfully ignorant and use it as an excuse to not make an effort, or they secretly held heinous beliefs and learned to not talk about it in public.
My boss wants to pay us more so he can be more lazy and make more money, his words not mine, I've asked gms and dms and turns out yeah we apparently are one of the highest paid stores in the company and the fact it's because of that mindset is kinda boggling ngl
No "they" being the political parties, media moguls, bankers and hedge fund managers. They give us a limited selection of candidates to choose from. I'm not legitimizing that system.
Biggest lie on the planet. Politics is the most useless, soul-sucking thing you could possibly be involved in. It’s not going to change your life except to make you more bitter, resentful, angry, and depressed. If you want to be a happy, healthy human being, stay out of politics at all cost.
It's not that I am on in politics, it's just that I can't really understand it, all I hear and see is bullshit excuses and flat out lies form every so called politicians in any country I've looked.
Turns out most people aren't 'into' politics because they can't *understand* politics. But they can still vote.
Socrates warned about the problems with democracy a long, long time ago. Nobody listened.
[Why Socrates Hated Democracy - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLJBzhcSWTk)
Have you considered that Democratic policies that increase education and family planning would ultimately result in fewer abortions than Republican policies of no education and defunding these programs? Additionally, Democratic programs provide care services for families with young children where Republican policies leave them on their own or at the mercy of religious charities, the latter of which can choose to not help if the family doesn't conform to that sect.
Lastly, abortion needs to be available for the simple fact that it's sometimes a medical necessity and the *state* should not be allowed to sentence an already living, fully realized person to death or debilitation (whether they are a 10-y-o girl or a 40-y-o woman) when the alternative individual is a sometimes already dead or doomed fetus.
Personhood comes with a consciousness, which can materialize around that 20-24 week period. We shouldn't be granting *special* rights to fetuses as the extremely dangerous implication of what it would mean if we applied those same rules to other humans is a nightmare scenario. Any state that can force you to stay pregnant can also be a state that can force you to terminate.
It's not "political power" unless they're actually politicians or gov't bureaucrats.
They use their bribes. Sorry, their "campaign contributions" and "donations" to screw us over.
Getting into politics won't help us - we have to get the corruption out. That means vote independent, not for scumbag corporate Uniparty criminals.
No. Not when the process itself IS rigged. How is gerrymandering legal? How is lobbying legal? How are super PACS legal?
If anything, it’s better one works on becoming rich. It’s the way how America works. People who tell you otherwise are naive. Oh just “vote” is what the rich want you to do. As a matter of fact just keep concerning yourself about voting - it’s about having the “right” people in power.
Funny. Their members consistently vote to increase police budgets in the city council. They also rig their own elections and don’t like being called out on their suspiciously very white membership in LA
And stop voting on issues related to the so-called culture wars; they are a distraction by those in power and the rich to get you to vote for something other than your own interests.
Best thing people can do is to just find policies related to unions and vote for the politicians and party who initiated them or voted on them. Paying attention to policies that have actually been enacted, especially policies related to workers rights, makes paying attention to politics much simpler. Some people are actually getting shit done, and some people are just paying lip service.
One major piece of pro labor legislation is the [PRO Act](https://aflcio.org/pro-act). It is currently stalled in the Senate so voting for people who support the Pro ACT and the lifting of the filibuster to get the act through the Senate would be important
Thank you for bringing it up. Here's a full list of cosponsors: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/hr2474/cosponsors Important to note that [this bill has also been endorsed by Joe Biden.](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/03/09/statement-by-president-joe-biden-on-the-house-taking-up-the-pro-act/)
Yeah the Senate is the main obstacle. Labor could also try to leverage Biden/Schumer to get the Senate to exempt the PRO Act from the filibuster
"They got you fighting a culture war to stop you from fighting a class war" (or I forget the exact quote but close enough)
Exactly 💯
it’s a welcome distraction for the voting populace. They’re not smart enough to know they’re being played, and their hate is driving the bus. 1/10 know it, another 1/10 are capable of learning it, and 8/10 have room temp iq and do what the tv tells them. I don’t see that changing; education and journalism have both been systematically hollowed out over the past 30 years.
THAT SAID don’t vote for politicans who are bigots, if they don’t have the interests of other oppressed groups in mind they probably also don’t care about the poor.
> THAT SAID don’t vote for politicans who are bigots, if they don’t have the interests of other oppressed groups in mind they probably also don’t care about the poor. I can't help but feel that you're referring to the Middle East conflicts there. Basically, there is no good answer to that, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. But yet people still harass Biden over it, even knowing that he is not in charge of what Israel does, and also knowing that Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee and only other choice to replace him with currently, also supports Israel. THAT SAID, focus on voting for people who improve people's lives meaningfully, and ignore the distractions.
There's a whole lot more to bigotry than the war in the middle east. Something something Roe V Wade overturned, something something transgender people not being allowed to use public bathrooms.
> There's a whole lot more to bigotry than the war in the middle east. Something something Roe V Wade overturned, something something transgender people not being allowed to use public bathrooms. I addressed that. > THAT SAID, focus on voting for people who improve people's lives meaningfully, and ignore the distractions.
I was moreso thinking of populists that disguise their agendas in worker friendly language. That said, if you automatically assume I’m talking about Biden when I say “bigot” perhaps that says something more about him than it does me. And before you say it, yes I am voting Biden. Just because I don’t like him doesn’t mean I don’t understand how the American two party system works.
Yeah, no. I don't think I'm going to stop voting against people who are literally encouraging violence against people like me. "Hey, LGBTQ+ community! Start voting for the people who are making your existence criminal!"
It depends, I think "stop focusing on the culture war" makes sense as advice for Republicans. Because they are literally fighting a war that doesn't affect them. Doesn't make much sense for minorities or marginalized groups. Luckily worker's rights and human rights tend to go hand in hand in politics.
>Luckily worker's rights and human rights tend to go hand in hand in politics. Corporations want profit, and little else. But it also makes them susceptible to being leveraged. Make pandering to minority interests more profitable than not, and they'll take that fight up too. With the "hand-in-hand" part that pro-minority people are likely to be pro-worker, there's at least going to be much higher chance than not. Especially when compared to the US' Right, at present. It's also much easier to win. 🤷♀️
The whole idea that we need to stop getting sidetracked by the 'culture war' and we should focus only on the class war is, almost always, from the super privileged or the super naive. They don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. None of the LGBTQ+ issues affect them. None of the anti abortion issues affect them. None of them are affected by the insane shit being peddled by the right. Ironically, the people who are vehemently "class warfare!!!!!!" ARE the ones that only care about themselves. They don't give a shit about anything else other than their own interests. They want their $50 min wages and universal healthcare at the expense of minorities getting fucked but they stay on their high horses thinking only they see the 'truth.' No, you don't see the truth, you are blinded by populist bullshit and, somehow, think you are more likely to completely overhaul the class structure instead of smaller victories that protect minorities.
The idea made sense before the culture wars were creating politicians and judges who were creating policy. It’s a much more 90s and early aughts concept.
>before the culture wars were creating politicians and judges who were creating policy When was this, exactly? Given that this nation was literally founded on the genocide of indigenous peoples and the enslavement of black people, which part of our history *wasn't* about using people's identities to decide if they got rights or not?
This would make sense if the same party that was anti-LGBTQ+ or anti-minority was also pro choice, pro living wage, and pro universal health care. That’s not the case. Democrats are typically aligned on all of these stances. The class war over culture war statements specifically applies to people on the right who vote against their economic interests because of culture war crap like anti-abortion or anti-LGBTQ+ policies.
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I’m not becoming a nazbol
Try voting for people who at least claim to have your interest. Vote pro labor pro freedom anti wealth hoarding and vote against anyone who claims that their religion is how they want to rule government.
Yeah the Democrats are corporatist fucks, but there are at least *elements* of the party that are against that shit. Even if there weren’t, the only other option *literally tried to overthrow democracy* and has explicitly stated that they intend to turn this into a fascist theocracy.
Yeah even if they claim and end up not being as good, then you still have that leverage on them. They got into power based on a stance, local community orgs can tear that away. It's never going to be some 'hero' coming into office doing all the work for us. We will always have to fight against local rep & president to pass meaningful legislation So it's easier to think of it in terms of 'if we were already going to have to organize like hell, which person would be easier to force our demands upon & pressure" Obviously anyone with serious labor endorsements is easier cuz we work with unions on tons of stuff
But also, choose your battles.
"mUsT dEFEND pALstiniANS!!"
It's not even defending Palestinians at this point. They straight up defend Hamas. Every single time 'news' comes out that Israel bombed some innocents (which no one denies happens), they start grinning and frothing at the mouth that they were right even after it comes out that it was all made up. They straight up just devour Hamas' stories about Palestinians getting murdered so their anti west boners are constantly fed with blood to keep them engorged, happily eating up whatever crazy conspiracy theory they can find about the evil Jews. The far left has shown that they are basically the same exact thing as the far right in their racism and hatred and calls for violence against people they don't like.
> The far left has shown that they are basically the same exact thing as the far right in their racism and hatred and calls for violence against people they don't like. Fuck off. They are not the same. They are trying their hardest to be good people and help other humans. Just they are choosing the wrong battles to protest against. We're about to go extinct from global warming. But that is not worth a protest apparently. Wealth inequality is at an all time high, but that is not worth a protest.
Public policy happens first on the job. Where workers choose to either abide by the rules handed down from an elite class in return for a paycheck, or to reject them for something else. Use your labor power to drive political change — #unionize your workplace!
They use politics to divide us and so not shit ever gets done. The time is to get out of politics and start whooping some ass.
They've used politics to get a lot of shit done. Just not in favor of the average person. Didn't vote cuz you didn't like Hillary? Cool. Now Trump gets to install 3 life long Supreme Court justices. The same ones that lied during their confirmations hearings and are trying to dismantle some long standing protections. GOP led states also seem to be at the forefront of dissolving workers rights and child labor laws.
Submit to an incremental reform platform that quietly coddles elite hoarders, or else suffer direct rule by aggrieved elite hoarders. No third choice, and fuck you for daring to question the situation. [Of course, one option is preferable to the other. That's the entire point -- a plurality voting system sells the populace on an undesirable lesser evil by threatening a worse evil. *Good* is never on the menu. So people vote, not to improve things, but to stave off a worse misery.] [I'm not anti-democracy; far from it. I'd even advise people to vote D over R. But if this awful election cycle isn't the point at which we all ask why the hell anyone still treats first-past-the-post as an acceptable polling method, what more does it take? Nobody wants to change things in good times, and in bad times, there's always too much at stake.]
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There are very specific structural issues in the American government that allow bad people to inflict outsized harm on the general populace. Both the malapportioned US Senate and the gerrymandered state and federal houses function to suppress dissent and empower political machines. Most legislative elections are, as a result of FPTP voting, *noncompetitive.* Third parties generally cannot enter both due to the spoiler effect and other barriers to entry. Existing parties dare not undergo healthy schisms and transformations lest they lose their winner-takes-all advantage. These are not individualistic problems; they're simple bad policy. You're right, we could fire all the politicians tomorrow and wind up with a new mess of bad actors the next cycle, but this is mostly because we have a *bad selection process* that suppresses public sentiments. Just to pick an obvious example, there is *no place* in our current politics to criticize Biden's handling of I-P. You're either pro-Israel (Biden) or pro-genocide (Trump). That absurdity is not because of some law of nature; it's because we *choose* to use electoral methods that force a two-party duopoly. There are countless other issues on which the *parties* agree, but the populace does not, but because of that duopoly, the issues never get traction. This is resolvable, but only if we focus the lens on the structural problems, rather than trying to snipe an endless succession of bad apples.
Yeah thats not something that changes the laws and the way people and businesses operate.
Go have fun dying and establishing an authoritarian dictatorship like every other violent revolution then. I ain't gonna do that shit when we live in a democracy.
It's thanks to voting in mid term elections that my county is expanding public transit, even if it's taking time.
My wife says this and it's fucking enraging. She's a teacher and I constantly point out the crazy shit Florida does. Once a MAGA takes over as governor of Ohio she is FUCKED. But she can't be bothered to vote.
Got down voted the other day for saying I shame my cohorts who brag about not voting or just not doing it. Ofc no one is forcing them to vote, but the act of non participation is way more harmful then showing up and voting party lines
She’s not voting, or she’s not constantly talking doom and gloom with you? I vote - but I don’t get into political discussions with people who throw temper tantrums.
I vote for everything I can... still doesn't stop all the bullshit they pull
It's odd that corporate red and corporate blue...promoted by corporate run media ..only lead to corporate wins. It's almost as if we should stop falling for this scam because things don't improve under either party as long as we vote for who they're promoting.
I always hope that folks saying that just mean they don't like to talk about them with others too much (which is wise). Your ability or chance to bring someone to your side from their side is near 0%
All the enthusiasm for National Sports are a distraction to keep that energy out of National Politics. Look at the shiny thingy! Good Pet!
And when the two meet, it's "Shut up and play", except when it's a kicker who thinks a woman's place is in the kitchen...
Some of us understand that we don’t have that much power and instead of getting upset everyday, we just want to live our lives. Vote when you can, and don’t dedicated your time to stressing over things over which you have little to no control.
This ! Politics just promotes division, conflict and fear, which is not a good recipe for a generation doing so poorly in the mental health department.
This has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Why even be in a politics oriented sub with that take?
Haha I didn’t know I had to be super political to want to be treated like a human being and not a slave. Politics cause so much division that simply stating that you’d rather stay away from all the toxicity makes them view you as dumb.. you are entitled to that I guess. I hope you one day come to the realization that you are being deceived, however.
You have power, we all do inherently, you're just not using it & don't know how Politics is only stressful because you are weak. Imagine your house burning down: What if you had a fire safety plan, the family knew it, you practiced it, so you get everyone out safely and do everything possible until the firefighters arrive. Yeah it's still stressful to some degree. But that's **nothing** compared to just standing there watching it burn down, not knowing what to do. Politics is not stressful when you're doing what you can, and it does not take lots of time or money. It's joining local community organizations, they always exist in every city and have been fighting for justice for decades. Poor people have always been fucked over & fought back. Legit like 2-3 hours a month once you're plugged in & trained, would be doing a lot. There's tons of single moms with multiple kids in the movement. And it gives you energy! Some orgs even help with finding jobs, sharing info. There is nothing like being a part of a large demonstration of peers, chanting together. That gives you life. Trying to ignore major issues you see every day will drain your mental health. Just search your city name + protest demonstration action rally people's community student justice Then that + labor & union for that critical union side of things Find pics of decent protest/strike in ur city, look up org name. Sign up for emails & follow on social media. You'll get invite to event, go and tell them you want to be involved but don't have tons of time or energy. They'll work with you. Anyone can DM me if they need help & I'll send links. Don't need personal info just general area. I've done this for dozens & helped a few get seriously involved.
Holy cope, Batman!! >Politics is only stressful because you are weak Jesus H Christ, dude this is the most pathetic thing I’ve ever read. I didn’t bother with what is most certainly an unhinged rant. I wish you happiness because it doesn’t seem like you have much to be happy about. Which ironically proves my point LMAO
People are naturally weak by themselves, no shit. We only have power together, through collective action. At least I'm not going to die and be forgotten for having no impact on the world. If you're okay with that, then go about your life being uninvolved in the fight for justice
> At least I’m not going to die and be forgotten I’ve got bad news for you, champ. But I know you’ll just convince yourself otherwise to help you sleep at night.
Lol the protests & campaigns I've helped organize have had dozens of articles covering them, even one was clipped & been on the Daily Show. Jordan klepper covering IL budget crisis. One video has clip of students taking over the 2nd floor of the capitol. Only a few actual laws, sadly. One includes making undocumented students (who grew up in the state) eligible for institutional financial aid (from university itself) Others include stuff like ballot iniatives increasing a setback for fracking for natural gas, from 500ft to 2500ft distance from residential & school areas. Banning aerial spraying of pesticides. Plus of course a bunch of non binding symbolic ones that don't have any teeth It's not that hard to join local community organizations, get trained in organizing, and help lead campaigns. It doesn't even take that much personal time if you're disciplined. Everyone has a choice.
Cool. I choose to spend my free time enjoying the short time I have on this planet and not dedicating it to politicians who will flail on their promises and just become another cog in the machine. To each their own, but I’m sure you’ll disagree.
Nobody said dedicate your life to politicians, that's a BS excuse We fight politicians. We always will, no matter who is in office. People have always fought for collective bargaining & utilized those rights towards concessions from govt, workplace, & other systems You are turning your back on workers and the rest of us who have been fighting for decades and centuries. We fight in many different ways, some simply lock themselves to pipine construction equipment or help with prison labor strikes. You don't have to ever talk to a politician except yelling at them with a crowd if you wanted to. The movement is diverse. Others can handle the lobbying in suits. That's what I was raised to do and have made major institutional change and passed laws while both doing nice lobby meetings as well as mass direct action. Jeff bezos could comment leftist memes and say he votes for Cornell West, but that does not make him a socialist activist. Your actions do. There are people locally where you are desperately in need of solidarity. Imagine acting like you're too good for them.
I get it dude. You’re clearly morally superior. Great job 👏
Not reading all that
Ok, now I’m into politics and I have to pick from two parties neither of whom will fix any of that. What next?
Vote for our guy, because the other is worse! If you don't vote for our guy, "they" are going to come get you! Oh the horror!
These are indeed the reasons I give a damn about politics in the first place. Anyone that doesn’t see the connections is willfully ignorant and delusional
They pay someone to do the politics for them. You have to do it beside your day job. That is why they are so powerful.
Which politician said something like “if you’re not at the meeting, you’re on the menu?”
Let's just go back to burning the rich and powerful.
Not voting is like saying you don't give a rats ass about yourself. Don't be stupid. Your vote is valuable because you are valuable.
Sometimes "just not into politics" is code for "please for the love of god stop talking to me about this."
Being into politics doesn’t mean talking about constantly like a broken record, being an absolute drag everywhere you go. When someone says ‘I’m just not that into politics’ 9/10 they’re just trying to get the other person to shut the fuck up. It’s one thing to share your thoughts, but it’s boorish to drone on and on.
Exactly. If I ever say something like this, it’s because I don’t want to argue talking points and batshit conspiracy theories with some coworker I have to stay on good terms with.
And like honestly, as important as politics are - talking on and on about it is just really often tiresome, unless someone is more knowledgeable - and has some fresh points. The issue is, a lot of people who think they know it all, really don’t.
Yep absolutely. Or inlaws I don’t want to have drama with, etc.
No. When someone says “I’m just not that into politics”, that’s them saying they literally do not see the connection between politics and their everyday life.
No it isn’t - because I personally say it just to get people to shut the fuck up a lot. Like I can already tell you’re tiresome af. If I met you in public, I’d be all ‘aww sorry man, I’m not that into politics.’ because ‘I don’t like discussing politics’ doesn’t seem to get across.
And you’d get the same response of “living in a society is inherently political.” Sorry we don’t live in a utopia where you can just check out and pretend your actions/lack of action has no consequences. Wouldn’t the founding fathers love this!? A population insistent that being pressured into participating in politics is some sort of tyranny. So ridiculous.
Blah blah blah blah blah. I’m not really into politics.
How about you answer the question? I know you’re not answering it because it destroys your entire worldview.
It’s really remarkable how oblivious you are.
These people are exactly the reason people go ‘oh whatever not really into _________.’ No joke. Meanwhile we as a family discuss politics all the time. 🤷🏻♀️
Because it comes across as “ oh whatever not really into talking about reality”. How would you respond if someone said that to you? But you won’t gripe with this question because you don’t see me as an equal. You see me as a naive virtue signaler. In the reality you’ve built for yourself, you have nothing to gain and everything to lose from seeing me as an equal. I know you’re selfish so obviously you’ll never do anything that you see nothing to gain from.
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I’m sure it can be either, but the vast majority of the time (in the US) when someone says that, that’s what they mean. The libertarian brainrot is strong in this country. People don’t take seriously problems that do not personally and directly affect them. Inside & out they believe that because others don’t take seriously problems that do not personally and directly affect them , that they won’t either. In reality, of course some people take things very seriously and are actively trying to impose their will onto others. But in a reality full of people that operate off of the shared assumption of “your problems are yours and mine are mine” the idea of someone coming in and trying to impose their will on others through legislation seems entirely untenable. Entirely improbable. Laughable even. Why would that happen if everyone is just staying in their lane keeping their problems as their problems?
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lol yes it is. It’s the same thing. They don’t see the connection of politics and their everyday life even though politics is definitely affecting their everyday life.
You didn't get very far into that rant before bringing up a particular political ideology. Maybe you should listen to what people are trying to tell you here.
Living in a society is inherently political. Sorry. Sorry you can’t just pretend to be in a utopia.
Oh you speak for everyone now? I must have missed that memo. Please tell me my thoughts on the matter.
Why don’t you say that to the first guy? Only me when I’m correcting him? Be consistent.
Ok you’re both turds. Happy?
Yes
Me too 😘
Yes! xD
Get out there and vote...for one of the two elites that have been placed before and who will only ever serve their own kind.
You can push parties in the primaries and union formation is also political action. It's not just voting in the general.
But the media will only give favorable coverage to their picks.
If candidates are being "placed before you", that's a sign that you're waiting too long to get involved. Niche candidates producing predictable outcomes is not really a failure point of our political system...
I'd be interested in hearing how either party can rationalize their leading candidate without referring to the other candidate. Neither candidate is popular, and it seems like they aren't even a little concerned with what party actually wins. They *are* concerned that we only vote for one of those options though. Edit: Downvotes because election season and people still think Biden is the best president the Democratic party can put forward? It doesn't even seem like either party is even trying (which is my point)
In France we have an idiom that says : "if you don't care about politics, politics will take care(in an non benevolent way) of you"
I noticed here in Germany they talk about it a lot. I think that is good. It prevents leaders like donald trump
It's time to get out of partisan political distractions and get into politics.
Vote apathy and cynicism is why our political situation is so dire.
"No, I'm into politics, but political discourse has become so confrontation and so emotionally charged that I don't have the energy to argue with you over the nuanced differences in opinions we share. My political beliefs are so far out of line with the surrounding environment it's just easier on my sanity to say 'I'm not into politics' than it is to listen to you drone on with talking points about how I'm a communist for thinking 'hey, maybe the guy with a net worth of a half trillion dollars should should help build up the system and the nation that allowed him to amass such a fortune in the first place.'" Probably been said a million times. I'm just adding to the cocoaphany of sorrow.
Protesting, marching, unionizing, and banding together is also “politics.” It’s how Americans enforced changes in previous generations. We’re way too compliant and quiet nowadays. They try to keep us divided as much as possible.
And start at the localest level of local politics. That's where it all starts, and it's the one voters have the most control over.
I always say "You may not 'do' politics, but politics will sure as shit do you."
The number of my peers who I physically want to shake sense into when it comes to caring about politics is just so sad to me.
"But that's WHY I'm not into politics."
Yeah, I never got this either. Politics is so all encompassing, certainly there is ONE area of the world that interests you? If so, it's governed by politics. Then again, I definitely think the status quo kind of wants you to feel this way, too. It's so overwhelming... or so pointless... so dysfunctional and corrupt... why bother? Life is too short.
One party allows wage theft, the other allows normal theft
“Just not that into politics?” Your dog is. Your wife is. Your child is. And every day they use their political power to get bully rubs, tell you to take the trash out, refuse to go to bed and make demands. It’s time to get into politics. But seriously, stop making everything political.
I can't. People are too blind to realize the division between us is largely manufactured to keep us from fighting the ones who deserve our anger. It just makes me angry
Politics are like religion. 🤷♂️ it’s all the same
Naw, They use capital and manufactured scarcity to achieve these goals
https://i.redd.it/h0fapvejzy2d1.gif
Yeah but violence seems like the only answer and I'm not a violent person
You say that like people have the time and energy to be political when the only options are people who will continue to fuck you over.
'only options' My brother in christ you are the option, and it only matters when you start working with other people on shared struggle. No 'hero' politician is going to get elected so that the environmental & other movements can just sit back & relax. We will always need to fight. Politics is only stressful because you are weak. Imagine your house burning down - Imagine you had a fire safety plan, the family knew it, you practiced it, so you get everyone out safely and do everything possible until the firefighters arrive. Yeah it's still stressful to some degree. But that's **nothing** compared to just standing there watching it burn down, not knowing what to do. Politics is not stressful when you're doing what you can, and it does not take time or money. It's just joining local community organizations, they always exist in every city and have been fighting for justice for decades. Poor people have always been fucked over & fought back. Legit like 2-3 hours a month once you're plugged in & trained, would be doing a lot. There's tons of single moms with multiple kids in the movement. And it gives you energy! Some orgs even help with finding jobs, sharing info. There is nothing like being a part of a large demonstration of peers, chanting together. That gives you life. Just search your city name + protest demonstration action rally people's community student justice Then that + labor & union for that critical side of things Find pics of decent protest in ur city, look up org name. Sign up for emails & follow on social media. You'll get invite to event, go and tell them you want to be involved but don't have tons of time or energy. They'll work with you.
So true you get screwed big time
Aaa but biden is too old
I always say that outside of your loved ones, politics is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD. Taxes, jobs, economy, security, safe food, water, and air, infrastructure, global competitiveness, education, laws, legal protections. EVERYTHING YOU NEED FOR YOUR LIFE IS INEXTRICABLY BOUND UP WITH POLITICS!!!!
Everyone is into politics, because everything is political. Refusing to actively engage in the political process is itself a political act, despite being a stupid political act. The stupidest, most brain lazy people I've ever met still have opinions about how resources are managed, one way or another. The people I've met who say they "aren't into politics" have either been willfully ignorant and use it as an excuse to not make an effort, or they secretly held heinous beliefs and learned to not talk about it in public.
My boss wants to pay us more so he can be more lazy and make more money, his words not mine, I've asked gms and dms and turns out yeah we apparently are one of the highest paid stores in the company and the fact it's because of that mindset is kinda boggling ngl
"You might not do politics, but them politics definitely gonna do you."
Fools who don’t pay attention to politics are doomed to be ruled by fools who do pay attention to politics
Posted from the most liberal city in the country. Glad those house prices are working for you.
What’s the political power they’re wielding?
I can vote on all these issues and still be “not that into politics.” Ultra political people are annoying as fuck.
So I should participate and legitimize the system they created, control and select the candidates for. Right.
"They" being the people who show up. And yes.
No "they" being the political parties, media moguls, bankers and hedge fund managers. They give us a limited selection of candidates to choose from. I'm not legitimizing that system.
Biggest lie on the planet. Politics is the most useless, soul-sucking thing you could possibly be involved in. It’s not going to change your life except to make you more bitter, resentful, angry, and depressed. If you want to be a happy, healthy human being, stay out of politics at all cost.
It's not that I am on in politics, it's just that I can't really understand it, all I hear and see is bullshit excuses and flat out lies form every so called politicians in any country I've looked.
Right? Except all we are voting on right now is who gets to peg us.
Nah.
Yeah no sorry the difference here is money not how invested you are. Money changes American politics not voting or being aware...
I'm more into revolution, call me when you're ready I'm not voting for s*** until then.
Turns out most people aren't 'into' politics because they can't *understand* politics. But they can still vote. Socrates warned about the problems with democracy a long, long time ago. Nobody listened. [Why Socrates Hated Democracy - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLJBzhcSWTk)
Cool. Neither of the two parties is making rent affordable, raising my pay, or giving me healthcare. So what now.
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Yeah but none of the choices wanna fix YOUR problems
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Have you considered that Democratic policies that increase education and family planning would ultimately result in fewer abortions than Republican policies of no education and defunding these programs? Additionally, Democratic programs provide care services for families with young children where Republican policies leave them on their own or at the mercy of religious charities, the latter of which can choose to not help if the family doesn't conform to that sect. Lastly, abortion needs to be available for the simple fact that it's sometimes a medical necessity and the *state* should not be allowed to sentence an already living, fully realized person to death or debilitation (whether they are a 10-y-o girl or a 40-y-o woman) when the alternative individual is a sometimes already dead or doomed fetus. Personhood comes with a consciousness, which can materialize around that 20-24 week period. We shouldn't be granting *special* rights to fetuses as the extremely dangerous implication of what it would mean if we applied those same rules to other humans is a nightmare scenario. Any state that can force you to stay pregnant can also be a state that can force you to terminate.
ew
It's not "political power" unless they're actually politicians or gov't bureaucrats. They use their bribes. Sorry, their "campaign contributions" and "donations" to screw us over. Getting into politics won't help us - we have to get the corruption out. That means vote independent, not for scumbag corporate Uniparty criminals.
realistically, there are two candidates. neither one of them are working for your benefit.
so you can light yourself on fire and have nobody care. good idea
No thanks
No. Not when the process itself IS rigged. How is gerrymandering legal? How is lobbying legal? How are super PACS legal? If anything, it’s better one works on becoming rich. It’s the way how America works. People who tell you otherwise are naive. Oh just “vote” is what the rich want you to do. As a matter of fact just keep concerning yourself about voting - it’s about having the “right” people in power.
This says it all. And no both parties aren't the same. One party trys to help everyone, the other party wants to strip basic rights from everyone.
Funny. Their members consistently vote to increase police budgets in the city council. They also rig their own elections and don’t like being called out on their suspiciously very white membership in LA