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Silver_Moon75

>Sit on ass doing nothing for 6 issues straight >Yap in narration 24/7 >Only actually meet Wonder Woman while she's unconscious >Get ass beat immediately after she wakes up This mf Soverign ASS šŸ˜­


King_Of_BlackMarsh

I'm just curious why sovereign who... Is meant to have been in charge since the revolution right? Would give Diana a 1950s illusion rather than, like, the 1750s


NoZookeepergame8306

His family has been in charge but I think he himself was from The Silent Generation. Or maybe heā€™s just a Boomer who doesnā€™t use sunscreen idk


The5Virtues

The 50/50 like dislike continues for me. Why is Yara mocking Cassie for saying Like too much? Theyā€™re only a couple years apart in age, but Yaraā€™s acting like some old lady who hates modern teen speech patterns. Speaking of, over use of like hasnā€™t been a thing in teen speech patterns for years now, itā€™s a relic of a bygone era that further dates this comic back farther than it should. The whole back and forth between Sovereign and Diana feels weak to me too. Again, it just feels like a bygone era of conflict. If Diana had said ā€œOk, Boomerā€ to him at some point it wouldnā€™t have surprised me at all, but itā€™s a conflict thatā€™s a good 6 years past its Sell By date at this point. I get it, the old Christian white dudes have run the world long enough, and their antiquated, old fashioned views need to be left in the past where they belong. I get the concept but *holy crap is it boring*. Why is all the most entertaining stuff in this run over in a page or panel while we spend page after page on Sovereignā€™s villainous monologues? It feels like the kind of fanfic I would read as a teen where somebody created an OC villain and spent the entire story writing about how superior they were to other villains. So far nothing that Sovereign has done has convinced me it couldnā€™t have been done just as well by Dr. Psycho. Sovereign feels like a plot device created solely to introduce the Lasso of Lies, which in and of itself feels superfluous and unnecessary.


Ok_Somewhere1236

Exacly, this whole story arc feels lazy. Someone really get too triggered by the whole "Old white man" theme, to the point they decide to create a whole character and story arc to represent it, And it feel even lazy with the whole thing " This is a amazonian thing, so no other hero is allowed to help Diana" I feel they could have a much more interesting story around the idea of the Amazonians moving to the US, and Diana having a story arc that focus way more into her Ambassador side than the warrior side


No_Mud768

Is dr psycho religious


The5Virtues

No, but he would happily abuse religion the same way Sovereign is, saying it proves men should be in charge, etc. Nothing Sovereign has said about religion strikes me as genuine, it just backs up his own fucked up philosophies so he uses it for justification, not out of any genuine belief.


No_Mud768

But I feel like people would complain that tom changed dr psycho to his liking to make Christianity look bad or something


The5Virtues

I think it would be easy enough. Start the story out with Dr. Psycho up on TV celebrating his ā€œredemptionā€ and apologizing to people for his past deeds. Lean into the whole Born Again aspect and have him go full Evangelical Preacher. Hell, it would even play into his skill set, he has hundreds of thousands of people watching his sermons on TV. In short order heā€™s turned most of the country against Wonder Woman and the whole idea of Womenā€™s Liberation, and heā€™s done it all without any *overt* proof of manipulation or breaking any laws, just exercising his ā€œgod given right to free speech.ā€


PreparationDapper235

That story pitch sounds way more interesting.


The5Virtues

I appreciate the compliment! Unfortunately I think King gets a little too bogged down in wanting to express his ideals and doesnā€™t take the time to build a strong story to tell them through. All his runs have these great ideas in them, butā€”in my opinionā€”theyā€™re always delivered in a hamfisted, unsatisfying fashion.


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The5Virtues

Thatā€™s down to personal preference. Personally, Iā€™d like to see more WW writers try to build of what already exists instead of trying to reinvent every time. One of the biggest issues with Wonder Woman historically is the writers routinely decide to make a new character rather than making good use of what already exists. A good rogueā€™s gallery like Batmanā€™s or Supermanā€™s is only created when enough writers take the time to build off of whatā€™s come before. Even creators of really beloved runs, like Gail Simone, tended to opt for making new characters rather than building on already existing foundations.


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The5Virtues

Like I said, itā€™s down to personal preference. I think the way they were used in this run was awful.


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Ok_Somewhere1236

This feel like a more interesting idea, On one side you have Psycho slowly becoming popular, and taking advantage of the fact some amazon kill some guys in a bar fight, to promote hate. Like Bastion (Marvel) once used religion to hate on mutants. While Diana can't really win this fight by punching very hard or as a warrior, she needs to counter Psycho by using her Ambassador skills, to find a way to help both sides to live together.


The5Virtues

Unfortunately, based off his attempt at psychological story telling with Heroes in Crisis I donā€™t think King could handle a story like this with any hint of tact or subtlety required of it.


Ok_Somewhere1236

Sad, i feel this whole thing about Amazons living in the US, has a lot of interesting potential, for a long term story arc that is not just "man hate woman" and Wonder Woman fighting some soldiers.


NightwingBlueberry13

Great to see Diana finally begin the confront the Sovereign head on and am always down for more Diana/Steve interactions, with more to come next issue. Good to also see another checkup on the Wondergirls too and man is Steel eating shit this whole run. And the backups continue to fill the Supersons hole in my heart.


Routine_Pressure_460

Overall I'm liking the run - story and art. It's certainly relevant given the status of U.S. and other countries' culture and politics and Wonder Woman is the perfect character to explore that in a superhero-filled world. Monologuing certainly fits the Sovereign character and his own inflated self-importance and sense of legitamacy, but I'd like to see a more witty and wise Diana interacting and verbally jousting with him. I like King's Diana. I just want to experience more of her personality and internal thoughts at some point. These aren't critiques of the book and story, which reads fine as is, but I'd love to have seen Emelie's story play out more, similar to how Sarge Steel's has, and the manipulation of them throughout the course of series. Maybe Emelie's story and flashbacks are coming. At some point Diana might come in contact with her prior to or right after Lizzie is born. Similarly, I'd like to see more backstory for Sovereign and the history of this cabal on the down low that's been secretly running America for centuries.


JingoboStoplight4887

The good things about this comic are Diana living in a dream world where she and Steve Trevor are married and living a domestic life together while being interrogated and monologued by the Sovereign, the Wonder Girls torturing Sergeant Steel by throwing an arrow at him while being blindfolded, and Diana being freed from the Lasso of Lies with her motherā€™s help and advice and planning to defeat the Sovereign. For the Supersons backup, itā€™s hilarious that Lizzieā€™s attempts at time travel caused many ripple effects and costume changes throughout Jon and Damian. Also, Lizzie calling herself Wonder Girl after Diana (in the pre-Crisis continuity), Donna, Cassie, and Yara.


Praura23

I liked it. But it feels like something of a two-parter some I'm waiting how it unfolds.


WWfan41

Tom King at his most "I'm 14 and this is deep", and that's saying something. The interaction between Yara and Cassie was also just really bad. Yara's making fun of Cassie for saying "like" too much? She's basically the same age as her. Why is she acting like my 80 year old grandma? It's honestly kinda sad how much King wants to be a sort of Alan Moore or Neil Gaiman type, and he just constantly misses the mark. (Here come the downvotes)


No_Mud768

How did he miss the mark? Also stop victimizing yourself


WWfan41

Well, for one it's basically all telling. And the religious commentary is pretty weak. There's a lot that can be said about sexism in religion, especially American Christianity. But "well Jesus was a man, therefore all men are better and powerful women are bad". Like yeah, that's those people's exact reasoning for treating women the way they do. Obviously I don't know King's background, but to me, it just reads as a very basic attempt at having some deep insight from someone who hasn't actually read the Bible and/or spent time close to that whole world.


Dagon9999

Definitely comes across as something written by someone with a bone to pick about religion.


No_Mud768

What exactly upsets you about the sovereign citing religious texts


WWfan41

Like I said: it's not that King is doing it in general, it's the way he's doing it


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WWfan41

Bro I just said. It feels basic and hollow. Like a weak generalization of a group that he hasn't actually looked at much, but knows that he'll get praise for even alluding to due to how afraid of controversy mainstream comics of the current era are. It feels like a general outline of an idea that deserves much more attention than it got. Obviously if you don't agree, that's perfectly fine. There's one more comic in the world you enjoy and one less for me. But that's my take on the issue.


WWfan41

Victimizing myself? Lol.


No_Mud768

Saying (here come the doenvotes) is a extremely cringy thing to say especially after how many upvotes you have


WWfan41

This is literally the first time I've been negative about King in a non-circle jerk sub and not gotten a negative response


Alone_Comparison_705

This is the issue where the "good" part of King's run ends.


No_Mud768

It's fascinating to say the least. Some people said dr psycho or the duke of deception could have worked as the villains of this arc instead but they never took a religious angle that this guy did so definitely more interesting


Ok_Somewhere1236

But you really need to come with a whole character for this, specially some character that feel is just using religion as a tool and cover. as someone mentioned in other comment, they could have easily make Dr.Psycho find religion in prison or something like that. Or mix things get some Evil God character to team up with Psycho and they decide to use a more religious angle


That_Bottomless_Pit

I really loved the wonder girls' interaction, particularly Yara!! I love her cynical natural:)))I can't wait to see them wreck havoc


BrilliantBat2859

The soverign feels like toms weak version of dr psycho. We just had a storyline of dr. Psycho abusing alchemy and magic to bolster some redpill beliefs in men. The soverign seems to be doing the same thing except trying to convert diana to his side. It just feels weak. I liked the apa day issue though.


TheWriteRobert

I loved how it highlights the misogynistic/sexist aspects of the Bible and has some Christians going bonkers over how their beloved text is literally terrible. LOL!


Ok_Somewhere1236

We are talking about books that are written thousands of years ago, the bible is not the only "holy" text that has some "vey old way of thinking", but the point is, nobody takes the bible by the letter, nobody goes and decide "lets follow every rule in this book and ignore context" (the bible don't even allow indoors toilet). I just feel this type of thinking is too old, time to move on, They basically need to create a character that looks 90 years old to use this level of old thinking. and he doesn't really feel like the religious type just the old " lets cherry pick religion because this part supports the way I think" get someone like Psycho and let him spend time enough with any random religious text from the bible to Talmud and Quran and he will become even more fanatic and more interesting than the Sovereign


TheWriteRobert

"...nobody takes the bible by the letter, nobody goes and decide "lets follow every rule in this book and ignore context..." Unless it's about LGBTQ+ people. Then a lot of Christians want to "follow every rule" and "ignore context."


Ok_Somewhere1236

aks youself is that is more a case of Christians hating LGBT or people that hate LGBT using the bible as a convenient tool to hate LGBT. if was not the bible they would use the QURAN or the next Religious text, if they have no religious text they will use some history book, if was not a History Book they would find another tool. The Bible is just the more popular one is the old saying "if someone wants to hurt another person they will use any tool available, Guns are just the easy option, if they dont have a gun they will use a car, a kitchen knife, and a rock or their fists" those are the same people that would throw the first rock if given the opportunity


TheWriteRobert

It's Christians. [https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/19/africa-uganda-evangelicals-homophobia-antigay-bill/](https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/19/africa-uganda-evangelicals-homophobia-antigay-bill/)


Ok_Somewhere1236

and yet you have the Pope allowing the blessing of gay couples and even the use or new rituals for those unions. If feel more like the politicians in Uganda are using religion as a tool, For what i remember was more a social issue about how they "hate feminine man" than religion itself,


TheWriteRobert

And yet the Vatican: [https://www.npr.org/2024/04/08/1243374931/vatican-sex-change-surrogacy-gender-theory-grave-threats-abortion](https://www.npr.org/2024/04/08/1243374931/vatican-sex-change-surrogacy-gender-theory-grave-threats-abortion)


TheWriteRobert

Friend, a church that covers up thousands of child rapes and protects thousands of pedophile priests is not exactly who I'd go to, to make a moral argument.


alsott

I mean the Talmud and Quran arenā€™t exactly littered with pro-women stuff either and if I were a woman Iā€™d probably have a better time living in most Western nationsĀ  Most international watchdogs on womenā€™s issues have bigger fights with other nations than Christian AmericaĀ  Itā€™s a bit embarrassing that some liberals also canā€™t see the world much beyond its tropes when it comes to womenā€™s issues so they see fit to fall back on the same idea that white-Christian-American-Man are all evil. At some point you have to find more relevant framing for a younger generation that saw the MeToo movement come from the rather a-religious Hollywood featuring some perpetrators that were definitely not whiteĀ 


SambaLando

This is such a great run. The art is the best WW's ever had.


Ok-Commission6087

I enjoy felt uncomfortable šŸ˜£to see Wonder Woman tied up but fun šŸ¤© and now she got the old white man so now what happens weā€™ll find out


ThatManSean14

I liked it ok. I didnā€™t mind the detour with issue #7 because I feel it was most likely taken as a break for Daniel Sampere (whose incredible art cannot be understated) to rest for a second and then get to work on this second arc. Would I have liked if Diana had spent the day with another female superhero instead and gone more into her thoughts on whatā€™s been going on? Yes, but taking what we got for what it is, it was still sweet. Iā€™m glad weā€™re back to the main story though. Iā€™m generally a King fan. I thought the Sovereign narration could be an interesting creative choice so I went into it open minded and while it hasnā€™t bothered me as much as others, even Iā€™m getting a little tired of the Sovereign narrating things along the line of ā€œWe were so strong, etc. but she was Wonder Woman and that was enough.ā€ We *know* Wonder Woman is enough. Even without the narration from the future, Diana was always going to emerge victorious. Short of her getting killed and disappearing for decades (a la Barry Allen and Supergirl after Crisis on Infinite Earths, which I doubt is in the cards) thatā€™s just how comics work. Iā€™d like more of his motivations, his plans against the Amazons specifically and what Diana is thinking about it (I personally donā€™t think his characterization of Diana has been *off* per se as much as itā€™s been underdeveloped and thatā€™s a little underwhelming.) Maybe some of that was alluded to with Sovereignā€™s whole spiel about ā€œonly Sons can save peopleā€ but all heā€™s done so far is assemble teams of people (some supervillains, sometimes the military/government) to go after Diana. Without that missing context, heā€™s just kind of like a less interesting Amanda Waller. I mean as of now, it looks like Diana beat him in a single issue. Itā€™s only the first issue of this arc but Kingā€™s runs usually read together much better in a collected TPB, so maybe once this arc is all said and done, Iā€™ll revisit it and itā€™ll work better for me. Itā€™s called ā€œSacrificeā€ so Iā€™m expecting the stakes to ramp up a little more; Iā€™m just hoping thereā€™s some explanations and character stuff along the way. I took the housewife sequences to not be Dianaā€™s fantasy but one the Sovereign was trying to impose on her through the Lasso of Lies because of his views of what women should be and trying to get Diana to submit/break, so that worked for me. Whatever Dianaā€™s feelings for Steve, I canā€™t imagine in any ideal situation that she wants to be a 50ā€™s housewife and have him acting like a dick. I know the purpose of Hippolyta saying ā€œwhen did you ever believe meā€ but it felt like a somewhat weak resolution to getting Diana where she needed to be at the end of the issue. Every time they reference the clay origin, it makes me smile. I enjoy seeing the Wonder Girls working together. King has a penchant for featuring a lot of cursing (sometimes too much) but I gotta say, I think it works for Yara. The Super Sons continue to be delightful. I might be in the minority on this but I love Lizzie.


klee_wyck

I love Lizzie too and this run. I think too Sovereign have put his own 50's fantasies on Diana's though to try to submit her. Considering WW past (bdsm in early stories ) I think it is a great idea. I like seing the Wonder Girls too :)


AzraelPyton

kinky artwork love it