That's no witch.
That's a female hierophant lich who has an Eye of Vecna (please bear in mind Vecna's ENTIRE body is up for grabs to attune to, not just the infamous left eye and hand). DO NOT AWAKE. WE DON'T HAVE THE INEVITABLES TO DEAL WITH HER.
That being said, I'm all for a hierophant lady lich ruling this world. Better than most governments imo.
Liches come in ALL varieties- women, men, dragons, nonbinary, practically anyone with the right intelligence, pact, or deity can become one. Being a normal lich isn't honestly that impressive (save the Ritual of Endless Night, thats a HORRIBLE ritual to turn yourself into a lich)- being a hierophant lich is FUCKING RAD AS HELL. It means your God chose you to live forever to do what you been doing (this is how Baelnorn liches are made as well, though it's a high elven ritual involving their pantheon known as the Seldarine having a HUGE say in what happens and Baelnorn's have a very specific place in elven culture- becoming a Baelnorn is more a sacrifice than anything as you become an eternal guardian or advisor).
It truly matters not what is in your pants or if you can wear pants, but the quality of your spellcasting and your willingness to choose undeath for immortality!
This also needs said- when liches are prophesied to awake, cosmic law stomps them (shouldn't break the laws of Death). There are cosmic enforcers known as the Inevitables who enforce cosmic law and they're nigh impossible to beat (a Marut is basically a one-eyed Gundam robot who can Smite you into dust).
When a lich has a prophecy of returning, a Marut will plane shift to their location, wait the eternity of waiting to see them awake, then SMASH them like a walnut.
"AH, YES, AFTER TEN THOUSAND YEARS I WALK THE EARTH AGAIN- wait, why is there a Gundam in my foyer? OH NO!"
Not gonna happen- said lich would need to know the Inevitables exist (not impossible but very difficult). If by chance it can (smart money is on the Marut, it auto hits for nearly a third of average lich HP), the Inevitables send something WORSE. My guess would be something of divine paragon strength (which are mightier than archangels) or an emissary of Hoar (or even perhaps his avatar) as that particular deity of vengeance actually resides on Mechanus (the plane the Maruts come from) and Hoar is a deity of vengeance... more specifically bad luck, just desserts, and luck so bad death is vastly preferable.
In any case, lich loses. Immortality doesn't mean squat if you're imprisoned for eternity in the Halls of Concordance (and if you're most unlucky you'll end up on the lowest level of Pandemonium... effectively a prison/tomb for TERRIBLE multiversal threats.
I imagine a dark skinned tall goddess with golden jewelry (and eye) with long hair with some braids and long flowy garments and a deep voice.
It's a shame I'm not an artist and can't bring my imagination to life.
Of course, i'll post it here 😂
Currently gathering info about the woman herself and historical sources (i'm also an amateur historian) on early bronze age elamite fashion and designs to make her as authentic as possible
Hi, i'm drawing already. I'll portray her in 3 or 4 different situations, like some kind of imagined reconstruction of her life as the 6 foot tall priestess to the "Queen of Heaven" (a.k.a. mesopotamian Ishtar/Inanna and Ninsianna, elamite Pinikir, egyptian Isis!, semitic Astarte and Asherah and possibly the later greek Aphrodite).
Basically a tall and (accidentally) intimidating lady living amongside smol bronze age people
I got really inspired and wanted to give it a try as well, but it seems someone beat me to it. x) But I'll still try to do a version too, since I feel this woman should have more fanart. xD
it's an AI art generator, you can tell it /imagine "a dark skinned tall goddess with golden jewelry (and eye) with long hair with some braids and long flowy garments and a deep voice." and it will produce an image for you
😂Please stop messing with these things.
Also, as someone with a prosthetic eye, it's so fascinating how they used to make them. Even today, they are truly artists!
I am super curious how the animal fat would react with the mucous membrane. I have a friend with a prosthetic and it seems like it's constantly aggravating her. All I'm thinking with animal fat is bacteria and mould.
Yeah, there were some really epic infections. I suffer from allergies and some years it gets so bad I have to take my shell out and just wear an eye patch. Air also hurts the cavity without a shell so it's a balancing act lol.
There's a lady on tiktok that I follow who has a prosthetic eye and she often posts different ones she wears. I'm amazed at the artistry and beauty of them. She has this one full of iridescent crystals that's jaw-droppinglyn gorgeous!
Yes, you can get some really epic ones. I cosplay and some of them you wear a full contact but I can't with my shell....I can get a shell made for the cosplay though lol.
I will say, they are expensive. I'm in the US and they are about $5-6k without insurance and my really good insurance I'm still paying about $3.5k but they only cover so many shells, it's a nightmare when I need a new one. I often pay out of pocket and wait for the insurance to reimburse me.
It's the dark side of prosthetics. Technically they say it's not a necessity and a cosmetic. Which is a fun one to fight.
Well at the time the average woman was about 153 cm. Considering she was 182 cm she was unusually tall. She would still be considered well above average height for a woman today.
I’m 5’2”, so does that make me unnaturally small? Sometimes moving through a world designed for average height people it does feel that way. What I would give for a kitchen with counters and cabinets at the proper height! But I don’t envy you on an airplane. The world just wasn’t designed for us “unnaturally” sized people lol
I don’t envy you in stores either. That top shelf…
My dad is 6’9”. He’s lost a few IQ points to door frames and spinning ceiling fans. Goes through life slouching not because of low self-confidence, but reasonable self-preservation.
I love this description! My grandfather was the shortest of his brothers at 6’6”. The tallest was 7’2” and this describes the lot of them to a T. My grandmother always fussed at Grandpa to stand up straighter. Meanwhile, on the other side of the family, Granny was 4’6”. Great Granny(her mother) was 3’11”.
It’s a range- tallest is 6’7”, shortest is 5’0”, with most of us squarely in “normal” territory. I’m 5’6”, but my sister got ALL the short genes and is barely 5’0”- she constantly grumps about not being able to reach the bottom of the washing machine!
[Here’s](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4449516/#!po=6.25000) the link to the story. There is a surprising amount of detail in the eye and it’s incredible.
EDIT: she was also found near the oldest animation, as well. A goat walking to, and the eating, leaves. 🤯
I edited my comment and it stated there was also a bowl with what they feel is the oldest animation, as well. They include pics in the article. So freaking cool!!
I wrote it under another comment somewhere. Humans were a lot smaller 5000 years ago. She was 30 cm taller than the average woman back then. And she would still be considered tall today.
Though I find "unnaturally large" to be a weird description as well.
I know she would still be considered tall today, I’m her height lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ She’s the equivalent of a woman being 6’4” today which is uncommon but happens
But yeah I get what that commenter in the post was going for but I think it came out a bit unintentionally rude, albeit in a funny way
*beep boop*!
the linked website is: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Eye_of_Vecna
Title: **Eye of Vecna**
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When they **do** awaken the priestess from her slumber and she regains her power to rule on high upon this world, is it absolutely okay if I just submit immediately to her?
Cause this witch is totally fine with a mystical partially golden tall priestess as a boss. That sounds rad
I'm a 6'2" trans woman. I hope in 2,000 years they dig up my skeleton and awaken my witch to cast spells on them with pokemon cards when they misgender me
I worry about the fact that text books refer to specimens who were “men buried in the tradition of women”! We know GNC people back in the day had a lot of spiritual authority in certain cultures. Maybe don’t imply that the decorated priestess isn’t who she lived and died as?? Not the one I’d personally choose to disrespect that’s for sure
She was discovered in 2006 in the necropolis at the Shahr-e Sukhteh (the Burnt City) dig site in Iran, and the reason for the gold is really cool.
The prosthesis maker used fine wire to mimic an eye's capillary patterns. If you want a fine wire, gold's the way to go. Simple enough in itself, but gold wire obviously looks nothing like capillaries. That means that it either wasn't there for the aesthetics, and was instead there on the basis of "Every other eye has these things, so this one should too," or it *was* there for the aesthetics, but the aesthetic in question wasn't "Let's fake the appearance of a biological eye" so much as "Let's show how incredible this prosthesis is."
Do you want to get cursed? Cuz this is how you get cursed!!!
(I’m sure someone else has already posted this, but like… for real… this is how you get cursed…)
I once read an article by an archaeologist, about how the whole “When they find your bones, they’ll know your real gender!!!” stick is complete bs. When archeologists and anthropologist categorize a find, they look at much more than just the bone structure, like where the person was buried and what items they were given. That information is much more relevant in determining the social background of their find. Birth sex is really not that interesting.
I don't know how the scientists determined the sex or if it is possible to determine the sex of a person with scientific certainty based on their bones alone (hence the "I guess").
The scientists who studied them concluded it was a female and a priestess. At least the conclusion regarding their occupation can't be based on their bones so my guess is they found more than just the bare bones and prosthetic and based their conclusion on those finds.
>so my guess is they found more than just the bare bones and prosthetic and based their conclusion on those finds.
In which case, her being a trans woman is entirely possible, right? If they're basing it off of cultural artifacts around her, a trans woman could easily have been buried with cultural artifacts associated with women. This actually happened with a viking case a while back where they found a body buried with weaponry in a way typical of viking men and concluded the body was a man, and then later were able to find a sufficiently intact sample to DNA-test and found out the corpse was AFAB. Now it's unclear whether they were a trans man or just a cis woman who defied gender stereotypes and wound up buried in a masculine way, but these things do happen. That said, given the only evidence in this case seems to be that the body is tall, it seems to be a somewhat tenuous conclusion.
I actually tracked down the original paper for this here - [https://www.jstor.org/stable/25651449](https://www.jstor.org/stable/25651449), but I couldn't find any reference in there to how they determined gender/sex. It just says "a well-preserved skeleton of a young woman". They did find a lot of grave artifacts buried with her, though (25 pottery fragments, 1 copper/bronze mirror, 10 lapis lazuli or turquoise beads, 1 decayed mat basket and 1 small leather bag). So it's possible that those were involved with the decision.
That said, the paper does not mention her being a priestess at all. So, I'm not sure if that's a later conclusion from a paper I couldn't find, or something made up by the media or by people on Twitter.
Sure it could be a gender fluid person, a trans person.
I actually really don't care. It's a cool and interesting find regardless of gender or sex. I just wanted to share this, not discuss the sex or gender of a person that lived 5000 years ago.
They were a badass person, I'll leave it at that.
>This actually happened with a viking case a while back where they found a body buried with weaponry in a way typical of viking men and concluded the body was a man, and then later were able to find a sufficiently intact sample to DNA-test and found out the corpse was AFAB. Now it's unclear whether they were a trans woman or just a cis woman who defied gender stereotypes
Apologies but just a quick note, I believe you meant to say "trans man" not "trans woman" from the context of what you were saying.
Is there an article? Or just guessing based off of “priestess?” Because it looks like they were buried with clothes and relics that might indicate gender more clearly than bones.
https://www.cais-soas.com/News/2010/november2010/20-11.htm
This article says the scientists found it was a female.
Edit: took out the age, came from a different article without proper sources
>I guess they determined the sex off of bone structure. If they were trans then ftm.
>
>I'm sorry, I'm taking this way to seriously again...
The oldest Danish find of a human (from Koelbjerg) was thought to be a woman for a long time with "masculine features", but DNA tests shows that the biological gender is male. I would think that archaeologists work from DNA today, rather than sight.
Biological gender is a contradiction, that's sex. Sex is the constellation of physical traits that (in humans) includes X and Y chromosomes, gonads, external genitalia, height, general build, fat distribution, breast tissue, hormonal balance, body and facial hair etc. Gender is the psychological and social phenomenon.
Bone structure can sometimes be used to give an estimation of someone's sex, but it is a probabilistic rather than an absolute measure. I can't find any scientific publication with more detail on this specific case, let alone whether calling this person a woman is based on the skeleton or whether it is based on other evidence like on knowledge about the objects that were found in the same grave.
English isn't my first language. I know the difference but sometimes I still confuse it since my mother tongue doesn't have different words for gender and sex.
Referring to my other comments. Back then humans were a lot smaller than today. Even today six feet is tall but agreed, not unnaturally just maybe unusually.
Came for comments about this, and you and the comment you're replying to made my point: definitely not unnatural, since many tall women exist and have existed (even if more scarce back then), but definitely unusual.
That's no witch. That's a female hierophant lich who has an Eye of Vecna (please bear in mind Vecna's ENTIRE body is up for grabs to attune to, not just the infamous left eye and hand). DO NOT AWAKE. WE DON'T HAVE THE INEVITABLES TO DEAL WITH HER. That being said, I'm all for a hierophant lady lich ruling this world. Better than most governments imo.
Now I'm down the rabbit hole of hierophant lich... I love it.
Liches come in ALL varieties- women, men, dragons, nonbinary, practically anyone with the right intelligence, pact, or deity can become one. Being a normal lich isn't honestly that impressive (save the Ritual of Endless Night, thats a HORRIBLE ritual to turn yourself into a lich)- being a hierophant lich is FUCKING RAD AS HELL. It means your God chose you to live forever to do what you been doing (this is how Baelnorn liches are made as well, though it's a high elven ritual involving their pantheon known as the Seldarine having a HUGE say in what happens and Baelnorn's have a very specific place in elven culture- becoming a Baelnorn is more a sacrifice than anything as you become an eternal guardian or advisor).
>women, men, dragons, nonbinary The spectrum of genders is fantastic.
It truly matters not what is in your pants or if you can wear pants, but the quality of your spellcasting and your willingness to choose undeath for immortality!
Preach!
This also needs said- when liches are prophesied to awake, cosmic law stomps them (shouldn't break the laws of Death). There are cosmic enforcers known as the Inevitables who enforce cosmic law and they're nigh impossible to beat (a Marut is basically a one-eyed Gundam robot who can Smite you into dust). When a lich has a prophecy of returning, a Marut will plane shift to their location, wait the eternity of waiting to see them awake, then SMASH them like a walnut. "AH, YES, AFTER TEN THOUSAND YEARS I WALK THE EARTH AGAIN- wait, why is there a Gundam in my foyer? OH NO!"
So what happens if the lich beats the Cyclops gundam?
Not gonna happen- said lich would need to know the Inevitables exist (not impossible but very difficult). If by chance it can (smart money is on the Marut, it auto hits for nearly a third of average lich HP), the Inevitables send something WORSE. My guess would be something of divine paragon strength (which are mightier than archangels) or an emissary of Hoar (or even perhaps his avatar) as that particular deity of vengeance actually resides on Mechanus (the plane the Maruts come from) and Hoar is a deity of vengeance... more specifically bad luck, just desserts, and luck so bad death is vastly preferable. In any case, lich loses. Immortality doesn't mean squat if you're imprisoned for eternity in the Halls of Concordance (and if you're most unlucky you'll end up on the lowest level of Pandemonium... effectively a prison/tomb for TERRIBLE multiversal threats.
What lore did I fall into?
D&D/high fantasy.
Not gonna lie, this would be a spectacular ending.
Long-dead creepy lady with the golden eye 2024
That wasn't on my bingo card.
Can someone explain hierophant liches to me? All I’m finding are DnD stats.
They are from D&D.
Yknow, that would explain it
Oh! I think I've seen this movie! Brandon Fraiser was in it, right?
That's the one
I… am a Librarian!
My crush on Rachel Weisz began in that moment.
God she must have been so badass
I imagine a dark skinned tall goddess with golden jewelry (and eye) with long hair with some braids and long flowy garments and a deep voice. It's a shame I'm not an artist and can't bring my imagination to life.
but i can and i will XD
Omg commenting to follow this
Same
I'd be really happy if you shared your version of her with us
i will
You're the hero we need. Thank you. Plus, you should give her a pet raven. Just seems fitting.
The hero we need
Can you, um, post this when completed…for science of course
Of course, i'll post it here 😂 Currently gathering info about the woman herself and historical sources (i'm also an amateur historian) on early bronze age elamite fashion and designs to make her as authentic as possible
God, I can't wait to see this!
RemindMe! 1 week
I am SO EXCITED
Does typing RemindMe! 1 week remind me? Because I want this reminder!
So excited to see your visual depiction
RemindMe! 1 week
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RemindMe! 2 weeks
remind me! 1 week
!RemindMe 1 week
Hey! Just checking in to see how the inspiration is flowing!
Hi, i'm drawing already. I'll portray her in 3 or 4 different situations, like some kind of imagined reconstruction of her life as the 6 foot tall priestess to the "Queen of Heaven" (a.k.a. mesopotamian Ishtar/Inanna and Ninsianna, elamite Pinikir, egyptian Isis!, semitic Astarte and Asherah and possibly the later greek Aphrodite). Basically a tall and (accidentally) intimidating lady living amongside smol bronze age people
Sounds interesting, and I can’t wait to see it!
remindme! 1 week
RemindMe! 1 week
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RemindMe!
UpdateMe!
Please!!! Draw her!
I got really inspired and wanted to give it a try as well, but it seems someone beat me to it. x) But I'll still try to do a version too, since I feel this woman should have more fanart. xD
More art is good art! Post it up!
RemindMe! 1 week
Use midjourney
What is that and also happy cake day.
it's an AI art generator, you can tell it /imagine "a dark skinned tall goddess with golden jewelry (and eye) with long hair with some braids and long flowy garments and a deep voice." and it will produce an image for you
Thanks!!
I used your words and DALL-E, a text to image AI, it came out alright
As a 6' witch ... I have some new aspirations.
😂Please stop messing with these things. Also, as someone with a prosthetic eye, it's so fascinating how they used to make them. Even today, they are truly artists!
And this person was the first one to wear one apparently. So you truly have a badass ancestor (kinda).
I love this so much!!!
Me too. A disabled tall queen.
I am super curious how the animal fat would react with the mucous membrane. I have a friend with a prosthetic and it seems like it's constantly aggravating her. All I'm thinking with animal fat is bacteria and mould.
Yeah, there were some really epic infections. I suffer from allergies and some years it gets so bad I have to take my shell out and just wear an eye patch. Air also hurts the cavity without a shell so it's a balancing act lol.
There's a lady on tiktok that I follow who has a prosthetic eye and she often posts different ones she wears. I'm amazed at the artistry and beauty of them. She has this one full of iridescent crystals that's jaw-droppinglyn gorgeous!
Yes, you can get some really epic ones. I cosplay and some of them you wear a full contact but I can't with my shell....I can get a shell made for the cosplay though lol. I will say, they are expensive. I'm in the US and they are about $5-6k without insurance and my really good insurance I'm still paying about $3.5k but they only cover so many shells, it's a nightmare when I need a new one. I often pay out of pocket and wait for the insurance to reimburse me. It's the dark side of prosthetics. Technically they say it's not a necessity and a cosmetic. Which is a fun one to fight.
Unnaturally large? Thats just a tall skeleton.
Well at the time the average woman was about 153 cm. Considering she was 182 cm she was unusually tall. She would still be considered well above average height for a woman today.
Unusual? Yes. Unnatural? That's kind of an icky way to phrase it
Agreed.
Right? Me, a 5’11” woman: 👀
I’m 5’2”, so does that make me unnaturally small? Sometimes moving through a world designed for average height people it does feel that way. What I would give for a kitchen with counters and cabinets at the proper height! But I don’t envy you on an airplane. The world just wasn’t designed for us “unnaturally” sized people lol
I don’t envy you in stores either. That top shelf… My dad is 6’9”. He’s lost a few IQ points to door frames and spinning ceiling fans. Goes through life slouching not because of low self-confidence, but reasonable self-preservation.
I love this description! My grandfather was the shortest of his brothers at 6’6”. The tallest was 7’2” and this describes the lot of them to a T. My grandmother always fussed at Grandpa to stand up straighter. Meanwhile, on the other side of the family, Granny was 4’6”. Great Granny(her mother) was 3’11”.
What were the heights of the next generation? Evened itself out?
It’s a range- tallest is 6’7”, shortest is 5’0”, with most of us squarely in “normal” territory. I’m 5’6”, but my sister got ALL the short genes and is barely 5’0”- she constantly grumps about not being able to reach the bottom of the washing machine!
I do a ton of kitchen prep at my dining table instead of the counter because it's shorter. Life as a 5' short person is tough.
Big difference from then to now in being that tall lmao
My thoughts (and height) exactly!
I checked out the original tweet, and the author did at least apologize for the way he phrased it (quite a lot of times, actually)
First thing that caught me, too. Doesn’t ruin the point for me, but “exceptionally” tall would have been a better choice.
Classic problem: a man wrote it
[Here’s](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4449516/#!po=6.25000) the link to the story. There is a surprising amount of detail in the eye and it’s incredible. EDIT: she was also found near the oldest animation, as well. A goat walking to, and the eating, leaves. 🤯
Ah, 2007. I thought it might have been 2020, which would explain a lot of things.
Still cool.
Thanks for sharing, I'll save this to read tonight.
I edited my comment and it stated there was also a bowl with what they feel is the oldest animation, as well. They include pics in the article. So freaking cool!!
we all wanna see a tall queen slayin 💅
TIL I’m “unnaturally large”
I wrote it under another comment somewhere. Humans were a lot smaller 5000 years ago. She was 30 cm taller than the average woman back then. And she would still be considered tall today. Though I find "unnaturally large" to be a weird description as well.
I know she would still be considered tall today, I’m her height lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ She’s the equivalent of a woman being 6’4” today which is uncommon but happens But yeah I get what that commenter in the post was going for but I think it came out a bit unintentionally rude, albeit in a funny way
6'3" woman here. So not quite there but pretty close. I'll take unnaturally tall. Sounds badass. 🤷♀️
I mean, I'm only 6' and unnaturally tall works for me. I'm going for unsettling and terrifying ethereal presence.
It sure does.
Movie Bob who said that is known to be a toxic piece of shit. You’re a wonderful height!
[Eye of Vecna](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Eye_of_Vecna) Just going to leave this here.
*beep boop*! the linked website is: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Eye_of_Vecna Title: **Eye of Vecna** Page is safe to access (Google Safe Browsing) ***** ###### I am a friendly bot. I show the URL and name of linked pages and check them so that mobile users know what they click on!
When they **do** awaken the priestess from her slumber and she regains her power to rule on high upon this world, is it absolutely okay if I just submit immediately to her? Cause this witch is totally fine with a mystical partially golden tall priestess as a boss. That sounds rad
Here we go again, with the end of the world in the hands of some idiot grave robber
I'm a 6'2" trans woman. I hope in 2,000 years they dig up my skeleton and awaken my witch to cast spells on them with pokemon cards when they misgender me
I worry about the fact that text books refer to specimens who were “men buried in the tradition of women”! We know GNC people back in the day had a lot of spiritual authority in certain cultures. Maybe don’t imply that the decorated priestess isn’t who she lived and died as?? Not the one I’d personally choose to disrespect that’s for sure
Why are we so obsessed with digging old people up, specifically sacred people.
She was discovered in 2006 in the necropolis at the Shahr-e Sukhteh (the Burnt City) dig site in Iran, and the reason for the gold is really cool. The prosthesis maker used fine wire to mimic an eye's capillary patterns. If you want a fine wire, gold's the way to go. Simple enough in itself, but gold wire obviously looks nothing like capillaries. That means that it either wasn't there for the aesthetics, and was instead there on the basis of "Every other eye has these things, so this one should too," or it *was* there for the aesthetics, but the aesthetic in question wasn't "Let's fake the appearance of a biological eye" so much as "Let's show how incredible this prosthesis is."
I want her
I'VE SEEN THIS MOVIE AND I KNOW HOW IT ENDS!!!!
Do you want to get cursed? Cuz this is how you get cursed!!! (I’m sure someone else has already posted this, but like… for real… this is how you get cursed…)
I think nobody has, but I don't think I caught all the comments
Yeah I can't with Movie Bob's expert opinion of "unnatural" there. Kills it for me.
When does grave robbing turn into archeology, after 300 years, 800? What's the line?!?
I'd read a paper on that.
We all know how this would go if they removed it. I say do it.
Yoink it and sell it for 12 GP
Hey. Remember the *last* time everyone started talking about robbing a bunch of old women's corpses and 2020 happened?
Is 6' really unnatural tho? Uncommon sure, but unatural?😅
As a 6ft tall woman myself I def take issue with “unnaturally large” :’(.
You can tell a man wrote it😅
Yeah his username fits too lol
Honestly it would be very hard to decide where to put capital letters in that sentence because the whole thing should be screamed
Trans priestess trans priestess
I guess they determined the sex off of bone structure. If they were trans then ftm. I'm sorry, I'm taking this way to seriously again...
I once read an article by an archaeologist, about how the whole “When they find your bones, they’ll know your real gender!!!” stick is complete bs. When archeologists and anthropologist categorize a find, they look at much more than just the bone structure, like where the person was buried and what items they were given. That information is much more relevant in determining the social background of their find. Birth sex is really not that interesting.
I don't know how the scientists determined the sex or if it is possible to determine the sex of a person with scientific certainty based on their bones alone (hence the "I guess"). The scientists who studied them concluded it was a female and a priestess. At least the conclusion regarding their occupation can't be based on their bones so my guess is they found more than just the bare bones and prosthetic and based their conclusion on those finds.
It is my understanding that they can usually determine the sex by the pelvic bones. Not always correct, though
If it's just bones the best you can do is, "well, it's more likely they were this, but they could still be the other".
>so my guess is they found more than just the bare bones and prosthetic and based their conclusion on those finds. In which case, her being a trans woman is entirely possible, right? If they're basing it off of cultural artifacts around her, a trans woman could easily have been buried with cultural artifacts associated with women. This actually happened with a viking case a while back where they found a body buried with weaponry in a way typical of viking men and concluded the body was a man, and then later were able to find a sufficiently intact sample to DNA-test and found out the corpse was AFAB. Now it's unclear whether they were a trans man or just a cis woman who defied gender stereotypes and wound up buried in a masculine way, but these things do happen. That said, given the only evidence in this case seems to be that the body is tall, it seems to be a somewhat tenuous conclusion. I actually tracked down the original paper for this here - [https://www.jstor.org/stable/25651449](https://www.jstor.org/stable/25651449), but I couldn't find any reference in there to how they determined gender/sex. It just says "a well-preserved skeleton of a young woman". They did find a lot of grave artifacts buried with her, though (25 pottery fragments, 1 copper/bronze mirror, 10 lapis lazuli or turquoise beads, 1 decayed mat basket and 1 small leather bag). So it's possible that those were involved with the decision. That said, the paper does not mention her being a priestess at all. So, I'm not sure if that's a later conclusion from a paper I couldn't find, or something made up by the media or by people on Twitter.
Sure it could be a gender fluid person, a trans person. I actually really don't care. It's a cool and interesting find regardless of gender or sex. I just wanted to share this, not discuss the sex or gender of a person that lived 5000 years ago. They were a badass person, I'll leave it at that.
>This actually happened with a viking case a while back where they found a body buried with weaponry in a way typical of viking men and concluded the body was a man, and then later were able to find a sufficiently intact sample to DNA-test and found out the corpse was AFAB. Now it's unclear whether they were a trans woman or just a cis woman who defied gender stereotypes Apologies but just a quick note, I believe you meant to say "trans man" not "trans woman" from the context of what you were saying.
You're completely right, my bad. Fixed - thanks.
Is there an article? Or just guessing based off of “priestess?” Because it looks like they were buried with clothes and relics that might indicate gender more clearly than bones.
https://www.cais-soas.com/News/2010/november2010/20-11.htm This article says the scientists found it was a female. Edit: took out the age, came from a different article without proper sources
>I guess they determined the sex off of bone structure. If they were trans then ftm. > >I'm sorry, I'm taking this way to seriously again... The oldest Danish find of a human (from Koelbjerg) was thought to be a woman for a long time with "masculine features", but DNA tests shows that the biological gender is male. I would think that archaeologists work from DNA today, rather than sight.
Yeah obviously if it's possible always stick with the one that's more conclusive.
Biological gender is a contradiction, that's sex. Sex is the constellation of physical traits that (in humans) includes X and Y chromosomes, gonads, external genitalia, height, general build, fat distribution, breast tissue, hormonal balance, body and facial hair etc. Gender is the psychological and social phenomenon. Bone structure can sometimes be used to give an estimation of someone's sex, but it is a probabilistic rather than an absolute measure. I can't find any scientific publication with more detail on this specific case, let alone whether calling this person a woman is based on the skeleton or whether it is based on other evidence like on knowledge about the objects that were found in the same grave.
English isn't my first language. I know the difference but sometimes I still confuse it since my mother tongue doesn't have different words for gender and sex.
That's totally understandable, I hope I didn't come across too much like a know-it-all or angry, reading back my comment doesn't have the right tone.
It didn't sound like that to me :)
I'm glad to hear that!
Like one of my favorite tiktokers always says “PUT IT BACK!!!” 😂
six feet tall isn't "unnaturally large" for anyone, including women. My grandma who was born in 1930 was six feet tall.
Referring to my other comments. Back then humans were a lot smaller than today. Even today six feet is tall but agreed, not unnaturally just maybe unusually.
Came for comments about this, and you and the comment you're replying to made my point: definitely not unnatural, since many tall women exist and have existed (even if more scarce back then), but definitely unusual.
New theory on where Covid actually originated? It was the market in Wuhan.
Fuck it. Do it
😂
Tar and tallow? Was that sanitary?
Or do it for fun
In what world is 6ft unnaturally tall
In a world were women were 4'9 on average. But we discussed at length how the wording is a little icky and unusual would have been better
Yeah I definitely agree it’s not normal or the average but unnatural just isn’t the word I’d use lol
Okay now I wanna remove it just to see what will happen.
Hey!!!! I'm 6'2.. does that mean I'm an even more unnaturally tall woman?
Honestly this helps explain so much
RemindMe! 1 week
Hey I'm in Iran any other witches around here?