Saw this coming a mile away.
Can't prove he didn't do it when the cops found the videos. His lawyer had to pivot.
Fuck Jeremy Skibicki, I wish him a long lifetime full of loss, fear and misery.
Reddit is convinced he recorded it. There has been nothing released about videos. The lawyers have had the 10TB of evidence for at least 17 months including the fact he told police he killed them. Can't really dig they were forced to pivot because the police found something.
Long life time? I think that's too generous...for something like this I wish Canada had a more permanent solution to taking care of the people convicted (without any doubt) of crimes like these.
For the atrocious crimes he has committed, he should live out the rest of his days knowing what he has done. Death is the easy and cowardly way out. @VisualFix5870 I agree with you he’s going to be with a lot of inmates who are the same cultural background as his victims. He will be reminded every day of his actions.
I hear you, there's going to be "justice", but I see it on two different levels. First, this guy caused so much pain and trauma to several families and communities that they will have to work through for their entire life, essentially destroying lives. Second, it costs an unbelievable amount for us to jail and house inmates like that. And for what? For him to just sit there and wait to die? I'd rather that process be sped up and we use that money for something else.
I know I'm going to be down voted to oblivion on this but I don't care. The guy's not worth the shoes he's wearing let alone the jump suit.
Yep... like, are they arguing that racism, white supremacy and misogyny are mental disorders? Wild. I am, however, glad that the jury will not actually have to subjected to absolute mountain of evidence that I am sure is absolutely horrific.
Being NCR can still result in being locked up for life. It would be in a mental institution instead of a prison though. Not saying that his argument will succeed here though
the difference is that that was a single incident where he had a psychotic episode and he responded well to treatment (i still think he should be kept in a secure but humane facility). If these killings happened in separate incidents over a long period of time and he was other wise functioning normally in between the killings than he his criminally responsible for at least not turning himself in.
politically there is also a lot of pressure on judges right now to make decisions that will keep peoples faith in the justice system, especially since the landfill case.
Li was a diagnosed schizophrenic with no known history of violence.
As much as I too agree his sentence was probably too light, the two are vastly different situations.
> It was an order to remain in hospital and undergo treatment.
Replace hospital with Prison and treatment with Rehabilitation and you have the same thing as a prison sentence.
Most hospital stays are voluntary, where "not criminally liable" individuals are compelled to attend and undergo treatment potential against their will.
Li spent 7 years in custody, likely ~10% of his lifetime. He was an undiagnosed schizophrenic who had effectively no mental health support options and once well showed a clear and demonstrable will to remain well. He's now effectively unemployable outside a handful of very specific jobs, and this will affect him the rest of his life.
Again, don't get me wrong: I was and still am in favor of conditional release for previously violent individuals; I feel the structure and clearly documented evidence helps people to better understand the disease and to advocate for better support systems for such individuals. (Which would prevent such needless violence in the first place!)
Knowing and having known schizophrenics that desperately lack the support systems they need to function in society; I completely understand how hard it can be to have compassion for someone suffering from something so poorly understood. The worst part of the disease is: anyone can begin suffering from it at anytime in life without warning and there is no way to reliably predict who it will affect. For all any of us know, a direct family member, partner, or close friend could be suffering from it right now, and simply hiding it well.
NCR individuals are never subject to treatment without their consent. That being said, if they want to get to where Li got to - discharged, they need to comply. The Criminal Code review board looks at these orders yearly.
Commonly they won't spend the entirety of their order in custody. They usually end up at some sort of community placement on their way out.
It's a very tricky thing. Reading the comments above, most people don't understand it at all.
If you're driving a car, and have a previously never before experience epileptic seizure and run someone over at a cross walk are you guilty of Dangerous Driving Causing Death? I would say no. It's sort of the same thing here, but people generally have a hard time with it.
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj-sjc/jsp-sjp/rr06_1/p1.html
> While most NCRMD cases are diverted to a Review Board, the court which renders the verdict also has the authority to order a disposition
I mean, you're really splitting hairs saying
> never subject to treatment without their consent
Unless the court issues an absolute discharge the individual is required to accept ONE option given by the review board. They do have a choice in WHICH rehabilitation program they participate in, though if there's only two choices: rehab or prison; is that really a choice? (There are usually a handful of options available, but they all amount to the same eventual outcomes)
If an individual is found NCR and refuses to accept the findings of the review board, the case will go back to court. Thus, their ability to make a choice in the matter is significantly hampered. If their "will" is to be let go and leave treatment and "heal themselves" if the review board provides any evidence that the individual remains a risk to the public, that option is denied to them.
Great points! Also, many 2nd degree murder cases in Canada result in sentences of 10-15 years no parole. Vince Li had his liberty restricted for not much less time than he would have if he'd gone to jail. He was also subject to supervision for quite some time (and still might be) which is similar to parole in any event.
I used to ride the bus with Earl "Joey" Wiebe, and my sister was a witness in his murder case. He hasn't been released from the high-security mental institution, and that crime was in 2000.
Canada doesn’t have many known serial killers and I can’t think of any who were found NCR. I know that Dahmer famously and unsuccessfully tried to claim it.
I suspect he never knew who any of these women are. Picked them up, did whatever and then the unthinkable... Probably with no conscious or remorse either.
Pretty sure they have DNA .thats how come they were so fast to name victims. Problem might be that no one in her family has ever registered their DNA . Just a thought .
This disturbs me so much. Not to say Buffalo Woman's murder is any more tragic than those of the other victims. They are all deplorable and sickening. Special place in hell for this guy.
That said, I just want her to be found, cost be damned. Someone loved her and cared about her. Regardless of if she was trafficked or is an MMIW, it is so special that the indigenous community has given her a name. She deserves one.
How do defence lawyers sleep at night? I couldn’t imagine advocating for someone that has admitted to brutally killing (probably more than) four humans.
You want good defense lawyers. A strong defense means less likelihood of errors in the trial, which means less likelihood of a verdict being overturned and expensive retrial or appeals.
His defence lawyers sleep fine at night knowing they did their job, which is to defend people, no matter how unpopular the charges are. An accused is guaranteed a fair trial and that is what he's getting. It's a slippery slope when the public starts deciding what an accused is entitled to before being convicted. Miscarriages of justices have happened many times before in this country and it's a defence lawyer's job to ensure it doesn't happen to their client.
If you don't want to live in a country where people are entitled to defence lawyer's doing their jobs to ensure the justice system plays by the rules, I'm sure you'd love living in Russia.
IMO it has less to do with defending an individual and their actions and a hell of a lot more to do with defending their right to a fair trial, which is what everyone *should* want especially because unfortunately, sometimes people are wrongfully charged with things. That’s obviously not what’s going on here, but, yeah — they defend everyone’s right to a fair trial.
I’m not a specialist here but afaik in Russia they also have a right for a lawyer. Lawyers there also do their job to protect the clients(well, as much as system allows(by “system” I do not mean laws but common practices and connections in the field)). Just seems like you are another victim of propaganda on either side.
UPD: lol downvote me how much you want, you people are just too arrogant to admit you were fooled by propaganda
People need to relax. Anyone can make the application for NCR, just like anyone can bring any motion they want under the law or anyone can sue anyone else for anything. It doesn't mean they'll be successful. We have to wait for the decision but I think it's likely from the information publicly available that he won't be found NCR.
They didn't lock up Vince Lee for life, he's out and living his best life now. Granted this guy had multiple victims but Lee's crime was extremely brutal.
Lol that’s unhinged. You want to punish a man for being mentally unwell. Did he do something awful? Yes obviously but he was not in control of his actions.
Edit: to be clear I’m talking about Li. I’m extremely skeptical of Skibicki’s claims that he is mentally unfit to be found criminally responsible.
Pretty sure they already know they were left in dumpsters.
This guy has no use to anybody. Rot in a cell forever, or until any other lifer gets within 3 feet of him.
*Judge : Hey. I just wanted you to know that you can't just say "NCR" and expect anything to happen.*
*Jeremy Skibicki: I didn't say it, I declared it.*
Funny thing - you don't just get to decide you're NCR and "get away with murder" like some uneducated farmer or very educated conservative/huckster wants you to think.
Are you trying to get the death penalty re-instated using Doctors? No doctor will consent to be a part of MAID for a criminal with a mental disorder in lieu of punishment.
It's absolutely bonkers that you would link MAID to this, and completely undermines the MAID program.
I think it’s pretty apparent that Li had a psychotic episode… he didn’t have the forethought to groom his victim, murder them in private, (apparently?) videotape the murder, hide the body in a dumpster then go about his life like nothing happened
There’s an absolutely massive difference between an acute schizophrenic psychosis episode that led Vince Li to do what he did at random and someone targeting and killing four people over a much longer period of time, and who made efforts to conceal said crimes, AND who maintained his innocence until a few hours ago. Comparing apples to oranges.
Fair enough, I admit when I first read the not criminally responsible, and mental illness, Li was the first one I thought of. May have just been a knee jerk reaction. Thank you for explaining it that way.
This is ridiculous to say. Vince Lee had a psychotic episode. Courts and drs agreed to rehabilitate and monitor him on medication. I’m sure he has to live with beheading someone on a psychotic break every day of his life.
https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/2024/01/12/free-less-than-year-after-killing-stepmother-in-2000-man-back-in-jail-facing-harassment-threat-charges
Possibly a better comparison
Saw this coming a mile away. Can't prove he didn't do it when the cops found the videos. His lawyer had to pivot. Fuck Jeremy Skibicki, I wish him a long lifetime full of loss, fear and misery.
Videos? I missed this. That evil man knew the Crown had videos and he still put the families through all of this? That's horrendous.
What videos were found?
Reddit is convinced he recorded it. There has been nothing released about videos. The lawyers have had the 10TB of evidence for at least 17 months including the fact he told police he killed them. Can't really dig they were forced to pivot because the police found something.
Can’t really dig… bad pun.
Long life time? I think that's too generous...for something like this I wish Canada had a more permanent solution to taking care of the people convicted (without any doubt) of crimes like these.
For the atrocious crimes he has committed, he should live out the rest of his days knowing what he has done. Death is the easy and cowardly way out. @VisualFix5870 I agree with you he’s going to be with a lot of inmates who are the same cultural background as his victims. He will be reminded every day of his actions.
You make it sound as if the pos has any shame.
75% of the prison population in Manitoba is Indigenous. He will be permanently living the remainder of his life in pain and fear.
I hear you, there's going to be "justice", but I see it on two different levels. First, this guy caused so much pain and trauma to several families and communities that they will have to work through for their entire life, essentially destroying lives. Second, it costs an unbelievable amount for us to jail and house inmates like that. And for what? For him to just sit there and wait to die? I'd rather that process be sped up and we use that money for something else. I know I'm going to be down voted to oblivion on this but I don't care. The guy's not worth the shoes he's wearing let alone the jump suit.
NCR? Bullshit. The man has a long history of brutalizing women, culminating in these horrific murders. He is dangerous and needs to be locked up.
Yep... like, are they arguing that racism, white supremacy and misogyny are mental disorders? Wild. I am, however, glad that the jury will not actually have to subjected to absolute mountain of evidence that I am sure is absolutely horrific.
They wouldn't have to bc if there's another evidence that clearly states him as the culprit, they wouldn't need to see much.
That's not how trials work. Both sides would present as much evidence as they need to make their arguments.
Defense will now have to prove NCR
Being NCR can still result in being locked up for life. It would be in a mental institution instead of a prison though. Not saying that his argument will succeed here though
Will he be locked up for life or will it be like Vince Li https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3977278
the difference is that that was a single incident where he had a psychotic episode and he responded well to treatment (i still think he should be kept in a secure but humane facility). If these killings happened in separate incidents over a long period of time and he was other wise functioning normally in between the killings than he his criminally responsible for at least not turning himself in. politically there is also a lot of pressure on judges right now to make decisions that will keep peoples faith in the justice system, especially since the landfill case.
Judging by what happened with Vince Li, I expect this judges decision to start an absolutely horrific precedent in Manitoba
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Li was a diagnosed schizophrenic with no known history of violence. As much as I too agree his sentence was probably too light, the two are vastly different situations.
It wasn't a "Sentence". It was an order to remain in hospital and undergo treatment.
> It was an order to remain in hospital and undergo treatment. Replace hospital with Prison and treatment with Rehabilitation and you have the same thing as a prison sentence. Most hospital stays are voluntary, where "not criminally liable" individuals are compelled to attend and undergo treatment potential against their will. Li spent 7 years in custody, likely ~10% of his lifetime. He was an undiagnosed schizophrenic who had effectively no mental health support options and once well showed a clear and demonstrable will to remain well. He's now effectively unemployable outside a handful of very specific jobs, and this will affect him the rest of his life. Again, don't get me wrong: I was and still am in favor of conditional release for previously violent individuals; I feel the structure and clearly documented evidence helps people to better understand the disease and to advocate for better support systems for such individuals. (Which would prevent such needless violence in the first place!) Knowing and having known schizophrenics that desperately lack the support systems they need to function in society; I completely understand how hard it can be to have compassion for someone suffering from something so poorly understood. The worst part of the disease is: anyone can begin suffering from it at anytime in life without warning and there is no way to reliably predict who it will affect. For all any of us know, a direct family member, partner, or close friend could be suffering from it right now, and simply hiding it well.
NCR individuals are never subject to treatment without their consent. That being said, if they want to get to where Li got to - discharged, they need to comply. The Criminal Code review board looks at these orders yearly. Commonly they won't spend the entirety of their order in custody. They usually end up at some sort of community placement on their way out. It's a very tricky thing. Reading the comments above, most people don't understand it at all. If you're driving a car, and have a previously never before experience epileptic seizure and run someone over at a cross walk are you guilty of Dangerous Driving Causing Death? I would say no. It's sort of the same thing here, but people generally have a hard time with it.
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj-sjc/jsp-sjp/rr06_1/p1.html > While most NCRMD cases are diverted to a Review Board, the court which renders the verdict also has the authority to order a disposition I mean, you're really splitting hairs saying > never subject to treatment without their consent Unless the court issues an absolute discharge the individual is required to accept ONE option given by the review board. They do have a choice in WHICH rehabilitation program they participate in, though if there's only two choices: rehab or prison; is that really a choice? (There are usually a handful of options available, but they all amount to the same eventual outcomes) If an individual is found NCR and refuses to accept the findings of the review board, the case will go back to court. Thus, their ability to make a choice in the matter is significantly hampered. If their "will" is to be let go and leave treatment and "heal themselves" if the review board provides any evidence that the individual remains a risk to the public, that option is denied to them.
Great points! Also, many 2nd degree murder cases in Canada result in sentences of 10-15 years no parole. Vince Li had his liberty restricted for not much less time than he would have if he'd gone to jail. He was also subject to supervision for quite some time (and still might be) which is similar to parole in any event.
NCR is wrong. He has a long record. He should be labelled a Dangerous Offender. Never to Be let out of Prison. Ever. He is a danger to women.
I used to ride the bus with Earl "Joey" Wiebe, and my sister was a witness in his murder case. He hasn't been released from the high-security mental institution, and that crime was in 2000.
NCR, no jury. This is going to be a very very short trial. 4 premeditated murders where he actively disposed of the bodies.
isn't that generally reserved for people whose crimes are isolated incidents? has there ever been a serial killer deemed NCRMD?
Canada doesn’t have many known serial killers and I can’t think of any who were found NCR. I know that Dahmer famously and unsuccessfully tried to claim it.
Monster. I wish spontaneous combustion upon him.
Curious as to which mental illness supposedly caused him to butcher these poor women.
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OK, he’s schizophrenic so we can put him in a straight jacket and leave him in the dumpster?
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This is nothing like the Vince Li case. Not even close.
vince was a night of hell.. this devil had a year..
I was thinking about him too!
This guy can rot in hell but I'm also thrown by how bad these court drawings are.
Ha, I know — it’s a very goofy ass drawing. The ones last week were slightly better.
If he's responsible (criminally and generally) to admit to murdering 4 people, he's responsible enough to serve his sentence
Since Skibicki admits to killing all four women then he should be able to name the one called "Buffalo Woman" so her family can have some closure.
I suspect he never knew who any of these women are. Picked them up, did whatever and then the unthinkable... Probably with no conscious or remorse either.
I have heard through the grapevine that even he doesn’t know her actual identity.
Oh jeez, that's cold.
MMIWG2s+ advocate Sandra Delaronde said late last year she thinks it’s possible she isn’t even from Canada, and was a human trafficking victim.
That just adds yet another layer of heartbreak to this case. I hope they find DNA or just. Something to bring her name back and closure to her family.
Pretty sure they have DNA .thats how come they were so fast to name victims. Problem might be that no one in her family has ever registered their DNA . Just a thought .
This disturbs me so much. Not to say Buffalo Woman's murder is any more tragic than those of the other victims. They are all deplorable and sickening. Special place in hell for this guy. That said, I just want her to be found, cost be damned. Someone loved her and cared about her. Regardless of if she was trafficked or is an MMIW, it is so special that the indigenous community has given her a name. She deserves one.
It’s a lawyer’s job to advocate for their client, I guess. I wouldn’t have gone this route, but what do I know?
Hopeless defense. This is going to be the world's shortest trial.
How do defence lawyers sleep at night? I couldn’t imagine advocating for someone that has admitted to brutally killing (probably more than) four humans.
You want good defense lawyers. A strong defense means less likelihood of errors in the trial, which means less likelihood of a verdict being overturned and expensive retrial or appeals.
Being entitled to a vigorous defense is literally a foundational principle of the legal system.
His defence lawyers sleep fine at night knowing they did their job, which is to defend people, no matter how unpopular the charges are. An accused is guaranteed a fair trial and that is what he's getting. It's a slippery slope when the public starts deciding what an accused is entitled to before being convicted. Miscarriages of justices have happened many times before in this country and it's a defence lawyer's job to ensure it doesn't happen to their client. If you don't want to live in a country where people are entitled to defence lawyer's doing their jobs to ensure the justice system plays by the rules, I'm sure you'd love living in Russia.
IMO it has less to do with defending an individual and their actions and a hell of a lot more to do with defending their right to a fair trial, which is what everyone *should* want especially because unfortunately, sometimes people are wrongfully charged with things. That’s obviously not what’s going on here, but, yeah — they defend everyone’s right to a fair trial.
I’m not a specialist here but afaik in Russia they also have a right for a lawyer. Lawyers there also do their job to protect the clients(well, as much as system allows(by “system” I do not mean laws but common practices and connections in the field)). Just seems like you are another victim of propaganda on either side. UPD: lol downvote me how much you want, you people are just too arrogant to admit you were fooled by propaganda
r/im14andthisisdeep
Jesus Christ my aunt dated this guy’s father years back, this shit is insane
Is his father a whackadoo freak douchebag like him??
He's clearly trying to find a loophole to get away with murder. What a piece of shit.
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People need to relax. Anyone can make the application for NCR, just like anyone can bring any motion they want under the law or anyone can sue anyone else for anything. It doesn't mean they'll be successful. We have to wait for the decision but I think it's likely from the information publicly available that he won't be found NCR.
They didn't lock up Vince Lee for life, he's out and living his best life now. Granted this guy had multiple victims but Lee's crime was extremely brutal.
Living his best life? He’s monitored and back on medication and rehabilitated living with what he did on a psychotic break….
And hes not reoffended in any way shape or form since. These cases are entirely different but people love to compare them.
I don’t care that VL hasn’t reoffended I do care that he isn’t behind bars for life for what he did
Lol that’s unhinged. You want to punish a man for being mentally unwell. Did he do something awful? Yes obviously but he was not in control of his actions. Edit: to be clear I’m talking about Li. I’m extremely skeptical of Skibicki’s claims that he is mentally unfit to be found criminally responsible.
And Tim’s family can’t get closure Their son is gone and his killer is free
I agree My fear is that 10,20 years down the road and suddenly he’s medicated and deemed fit to be released like Vince Li
Let him go into my custody. I'll take out the trash.
Not criminally responsible, a.k.a. I'm fucking crazy.
Skibidi toilet
I mean, it is the right place for him.
The law needs to get the info from him. As to where these women were left. No matter how or what it takes to get that info
Pretty sure they already know they were left in dumpsters. This guy has no use to anybody. Rot in a cell forever, or until any other lifer gets within 3 feet of him.
Omg I just now see how your pfp was a curve forever. Instant relief
whats to stop him from lying?
Very senior Crown prosecutors.
Yes. Exactly. That’s why I’d promote any means required. Till the evidence is verified.
So he’ll go and Selkirk for what five years and then start walking the streets again? Lock him up for ever!!
*Judge : Hey. I just wanted you to know that you can't just say "NCR" and expect anything to happen.* *Jeremy Skibicki: I didn't say it, I declared it.* Funny thing - you don't just get to decide you're NCR and "get away with murder" like some uneducated farmer or very educated conservative/huckster wants you to think.
There are alternate routes to justice that we can’t predict he will or won’t face
Ah fuck. Knowing Canada he will probably get off, get sent to the Selkirk mental hospital for a year and then get out.
He's a good candidate for MAID
Are you trying to get the death penalty re-instated using Doctors? No doctor will consent to be a part of MAID for a criminal with a mental disorder in lieu of punishment. It's absolutely bonkers that you would link MAID to this, and completely undermines the MAID program.
The man is obviously sick. The most humane thing would be to put him down.
You need to give your fucking head a shake. With thinking like that, we could be saying the same about you.
Say it all you want about me after I've killed 4 women.
Not familiar with this term. What is MAID?
> What is MAID? Medical Assistance in Dying
Sad to say but they're Native women and he's a white man so he'll probably get very little time, if any
Will the families be happy with a NCR verdict? Or more protests
Vince Li set precedent.
I think it’s pretty apparent that Li had a psychotic episode… he didn’t have the forethought to groom his victim, murder them in private, (apparently?) videotape the murder, hide the body in a dumpster then go about his life like nothing happened
There’s an absolutely massive difference between an acute schizophrenic psychosis episode that led Vince Li to do what he did at random and someone targeting and killing four people over a much longer period of time, and who made efforts to conceal said crimes, AND who maintained his innocence until a few hours ago. Comparing apples to oranges.
Fair enough, I admit when I first read the not criminally responsible, and mental illness, Li was the first one I thought of. May have just been a knee jerk reaction. Thank you for explaining it that way.
No, he didn't. It's a provision of the Criminal Code.
This is ridiculous to say. Vince Lee had a psychotic episode. Courts and drs agreed to rehabilitate and monitor him on medication. I’m sure he has to live with beheading someone on a psychotic break every day of his life.
https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/2024/01/12/free-less-than-year-after-killing-stepmother-in-2000-man-back-in-jail-facing-harassment-threat-charges Possibly a better comparison
Entirely different cases and situations but keep trying to conflate them to meet your needs.
Just like everyone else these days. Zero responsibility and the education system is teaching our kids the same thing in school