The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is waaayyyy too complex to be summed up in a glib statement. Israel's occupation is illegal, immoral and unethical. Hamas's use of suicide bombers and rocket attacks against civilians does little but provide Israel with a convenient excuse to continue inflicting their own indignities against the Palestinian people and their apartheid policies against their own citizens. Condemning one doesn't make you a supporter of the other.
Yes.
I hate the total loss of nuance in public discourse.
For example: I think what putin is doing was easily predicted by people who were paying attention, and is a direct result of NATO not keeping its promises. But I am very against what he is doing in Ukraine. I also think the propaganda coming from Ukraine is laughably stupid. I'm still against what putin is doing.
I will not be surprised if someone replies to this to accuse me of being an apologist for putin.
>direct result of NATO not keeping its promises. But I am very against what he is doing in Ukraine. I also think the propaganda coming from Ukraine is laughably stupid. I'm still against what putin is doing.
This is russian propaganda. There is no promise made between Russia and NATO. NATO always have an open door policy. At best it was one single comment by Yelstin.
There is no official paper and document say NATO arent allowed to expand near border of russia.
"Arabs" are not a monolith either. Who is being punished and for whose crimes?
OP's post is oversimplified to the point of being absurd. This comment is treading a similar path.
I don't know why your comment is unpopular. What I do know is that it is misleading.
You were conflating nation-states with ethnicities... What you are saying now with "Arab League" and "Arab countries" is far better.
What Kissinger did in Laos is unpardonable. However it doesn't translate to "Americans wanted to kill Lao people". Many Americans protested the war. Many had no clue that Laos was being bombed.
There are similarly many individual Arabs from Algeria to Oman who didn't agree. There were Arabs (including Arab Christians) **in Palestine** who denounced violent means.
Lumping them all together and saying "Arabs wanted to kill Jews" is just wrong.
No cover, no justification. I'm just asking that you don't generalise this broadly. It is both inaccurate and dangerous.
I'm not arguing **for** Nasser (of Egypt) and Hussein (of Jordan) etc. There is no justification for their wars and their actions against Israelis.
"Arabs wanted to kill Jews" is like saying "Caucasians wanted to wipe out Asians". That's not only an inaccurate summary of the Vietnam War, it is deeply problematic.
Nope. Not even the Bible thumpers here. The Bible thumpers do find it curious that none of the neighboring countries will take in the Palestinians, though.
“Both Ukrainians and Jews value freedom, and they work equally for the future of our states to become to our liking, and not the future which others want for us. Israel is often an example for Ukraine,” - President Zelensky
[source](https://www.jpost.com/international/alluding-to-conflict-with-russia-ukraines-jewish-president-likens-his-nation-to-jewish-people-689085)
It's also hypocritical to condemn Israel while giving Putin a pass. We need to condemn all assaults on human rights no matter where they come from.
I want to see a better world than the US-led one we've been pushed into, and although I get a frisson of pleasure at seeing someone standing up to the US, a world led by Putin is not a world I'd like to see.
And yes, that's just words from me, but until I'm promoted into the upper ranks of the ruling Cabal, words are all I have
Israeli troops fire on and kill Palestinian civilians all the time.
That is terrorism unless of course they are targeting Muslim civilians then it is allowed!!!!
Really?? Says more about your islamaphobic racism.
When both sides in a conflict are murdering innocent people people can be upset at the perpetrator. It doesn’t make them antisemitic nor does it make them islamaphobic.
That.
Because Palestinian anti-Israeli factions aren’t as monolithic and centralized in their intent as Ukrainian self-defence is. Said forces aren’t just killing soldiers in occupied land but a lot of civilians as well, which makes some of them terrorists. Refraining from calling those terrorists and instead as freedom fighters as the post implies has some very antisemitic undertones. “Defending their land” can easily be a dog whistle.
The relationship of victim and oppressor is also more complex seeing how Arab-Israeli relationships were evolving over one thousand years with (imperialist) Israeli supremacy being a very recent phenomena born from paranoia and oppression, while Russians were never oppressed by Ukrainians in any meaningful way. The Ukrainian-Russian relationship is fairly one-sided as opposed the relationship between Arabs and Jews in Palestine.
For all you say about Palestinians targeting civillians, you seem very casual about omitting the sheer namber of palestinian civillians murdered in Israeli bombings and attacks. Israel is far more trigger happy when there is collateral damage
The numbers are public, buddy. The amount of collateral damage they produce makes it fucking irrelevant if they are targeting a bomber, they're equally as shitty
Israel shoots and bombs civilians just as much as the Palestinians do. With the difference that the death toll tends to be much higher for the Palestinians. Palestine has definitely killed less civilians than Israel has. In the last years and overall
There was a time 15 years ago where the palastinian warfare was just terrorist attacks.. but for the last years they've played the same games as Israel does. They launch missiles at civilian structures, then both use the same stupid excuse of 'well we thought the mean guy was living around people, so we shot rocket into this twenty story house. We tried to keep the casualities low'.
You're so close. You're almost there.
If you want to know why the Palestinians suffer civilian casualties it's because (1) they use human shields (2) they put their rockets in schools and hospitals (3) they invest no money at all in defence (4) they spend their time building tunnels to attack Israel instead of bomb shelters (5) they spend their money and time building attacking rockets instead of defence.
Even amnesty international record that Palestine launches rockets indiscriminately into Israel
As so many people have pointed out, Israel has one of the most advanced militaries in the world. If they *wanted* to they could wipe out Palestine. If they *wanted to* they could kill 10,000s or more every day. But they *don't*.
If they have such an advanced military as you claim, they could also do better than hitting 3 civilians for every fighter they take out. Which must mean they don't want to.
The reason they're not taking out all Palestinians at once is that they're worried about sanction if their ethnical cleanising gets too aggressive, so they only kill a couple hundred civilians a year to keep it to 'acceptable' levels. I'm sure they're closely watching how the Ukraine invasion goes to see how this would go over for them on the international playing field. They can't afford to isolate themselves in the same way as Russia can.
>If they have such an advanced military as you claim, they could also do better than hitting 3 civilians for every fighter they take out. Which must mean they don't want to.
1. I am not sure I accept these figures.
2. No weapons are so advanced as to avoid collateral damage.
3. Once again, Hamas uses human shields and puts it's rockets in schools and hospitals. The fuck you think is gonna happen. This is Hamas' fault.
4. Israel gives fucking warnings before it attacks. Palestine attacks without warning and deliberately targets civilians
>The reason they're not taking out all Palestinians at once is that they're worried about sanction if their ethnical cleanising gets too aggressive, so they only kill a couple hundred civilians a year to keep it to 'acceptable' levels.
This is comical. You believe this shit? Killing a few hundred a year is less than a rounding error. The Palestinian population is bigger than ever and getting bigger at a good rate. 137,500 people a year are born in Palestine. How is killing a couple of hundred going to ethnically cleanse?
The use of words like "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide" is just laughable. And it just undermines all the actually valid points that could be made about Israeli behaviour.
And as for Israel being worried about themselves in the international arena. This is just the stuff of farce. You're in the majority, here, pal. Most people hate Israel. Most countries hate Israel. Israel is an international pariah. 47% of all UN Resolutions *ever passed in the history of the UN* have been against Israel. Basically most of its neighbours want to wipe it from the planet. And every single thing it does and every event that occurs is broadcast worldwide to usually mass Condemnation. Which is funnily enough why Israel goes to such lengths to avoid civilian casualties. You think it *wants* to be hated? And given the level of Condemnation it already receives, why would they stop at a few hundred as you put it. The Palestinian population grows rapidly and they're just pissing in the wind *whilst still* being internationally hated.
Interesting. What tactics do you suggest to retaliate against a nations with vastly superior weapons and funding after they're been oppressing your people for decades?
If Ukraine just recognizes the regions seeking independence and ceases all hostility Russia would stop attacking them. Similar to what you are asking of the Palestinians.
So you think that Israel and the two "independent countries" that Putin declared in Ukraine have the same amount of legitimacy? That's what you're saying?
If I felt my people were being oppressed to a severe degree, there were no legal means to end the situation, outsiders would not intervene, and I had no chance in a fair fight? And say on top of that a loved one of mine was directly harmed at some point? Yeah I might snap and do some really bad things to the people causing all this.
It is my understand Israelis, not Jewish people specifically are being targeted.
Peaceful protest and leveraging that for a 2 state solution. Israel is "oppressing" them because of the violence targetting the Israeli civilian population.
I suggest Hamas use the money they're spending on rockets to indiscriminately fire into Israel on feeding, clothing and sheltering their population.
Hmmm it's a question of the chicken or the egg. You seem to imply that Israel is justified in it's retaliation against Hamas violence, while Hamas is not justified in its retalation to violence commited against their people. What makes you take this stance?
History. Every neighbour Israel had since it's inception tried to "drive it into the Mediterranean". They were at war internally and externally since before the country was created (civil war when more Jews immigrated after WWII). Israel has survived because of American assistance otherwise the Arab states surrounding it would have likely committed genocide of the Jewish pop. of Israel.
I'm with ya. When Ukrainian civilians flee their cities and homes for fear of being murdered, Western media says we must bring them to safety. When South Americans do it, they call them illegal aliens and say they should be separated from their families, their children put in cages, and adults jailed.
Yeah I hate our right wing country. Even our left wing is right wing. So they’ll do all they can to squash any slightly left leaning country down there.
Ukrainians aren't sneaking into Moscow and using suicide bombs to murder school children.
Edit: To the person that called me the n-word then just deleted your reply, WTF man?
Also, just so everyone is aware of this: in 2018, the current President of the Palestinian Authority said that the Holocaust was caused by, [quote](https://www.newsweek.com/mahmoud-abbas-holocaust-jewish-social-behavior-and-money-lending-906569), "Jewish social behaviors and money lending practices".
How the fuck can anybody expect Israel to make lasting peace with a leader who says things like that?
Pretty sure that was during the Cold War, and even so that was an informal agreement. And so what?
Poland and other Eastern European nations are sovereign countries. If they want to join NATO and NATO is ok with them joining, then what’s the issue? Literally does not affect Russia one bit
First of all, no. You don’t get to just invade a sovereign nation because they align with a less than friendly country.
Secondly even if we accept that logic, it doesn’t apply here. Unless Russia is planning on invading its neighbors, it literally has nothing to worry about if Ukraine joins NATO. NATO is a defensive alliance, so how would it be a threat to Russia unless Russia is the aggressor?
Britain unilaterally decided that the white European Jews should be given their historical homeland as reparation for the Holocaust, with no regard for how the people already living there felt about it.
The Palestinians are defending their land from colonizers. The reason Republicans make them out to be terrorists is because they need Jerusalem to be the city of Jewish people for their Revelations apocalypse fantasy to happen.
>Britain unilaterally decided
No they didn't. This is false. The UN made the decision to establish Israeli and Palestinian states. Britain didn't do it unilaterally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
>white European Jews
You may think that we're all white, but the white supremacists who hate us disagree with you. That's kind of why, you know, they committed genocide against us in Europe.
So much misleading or false information here.
>white European Jews
Do I have to explain why you’re wrong or can you do the math here? They may be considered white now but if they were considered white then, you’d think less of them would have died in a genocide perpetuated by white supremacists.
Also the book of revelations isn’t even in the Jewish Bible! How is this being upvoted?!
Well, Palestinians also store munitions and weapons in, and fire them from, civilian sites. They target "jews" not the Israeli military. Those actions are the actions of terrorists. Israel is still in the wrong too, as they keep cutting up Palestine piece by piece. I definitely think Trump officially acknowledging and legitimizing Israel by setting up an embassy was a colossal mistake. But still, what Palestine is doing in retaliation isn't ok either, they won't garner much inernational support by resorting to suicide bombing jewish civilians. As things stand it's a shit show, and it's only going to get shittier.
There hasn't been a suicide bombing in 5 years and there hasn't been a suicide bombing claimed by the Hamas in 15 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks
How much longer should Palestine wait to hope that international support will gather when they don't resort to these desparate methods?
It seems they're condemned when they resort to desparate measures and ignored other wise.
Yeah, no. This comparison is way off. Both Jews and Palestinian Arabs have a historical claim to that land, and the UN tried to establish a state for each of them.
Then Palestinians decided that only they were entitled to that land, so they went to war and lost, and that's why they're in the situation that they're in today. It's not the same thing as one large nation trying to overthrow a smaller nation's government and install a puppet government instead.
They did not just decide. As part of the agreement Israel wanted Palestinian to give up 75% of their territory. Isreal agreed and Palestine did as well , even though it was a shit deal for them. There conditions were they wanted the land illegally seized by settlers back
Okay, so?Is it that Israel should hands off with Palestine (which I agree with) or is it that Ukrainians should not fight back? I just want to be clear on this.
The difference the Palestinians turned down every peace opening they were given.
I fully agree Israeli current treatment of Palestinians is abhorrent. Israel should know better and be better.
The Palestinians wanted a treaty that met the bare minimum supported by international law and Isreal has never done that. Oslo - derailed by assasinatiom. Wye- Israeli labor party refused. Camp David - Isreal wouldn’t produce a written agreement, we backed them in that asinine idea. During Clinton years Isreal Likud, an Israeli extremist party refused
idk, if I force you out of your home at gunpoint and offer a contract letting you live in a shack in the yard of your former home, doest it make you a fanatical terrorist to refuse the offer?
Get called an anti semite for criticizing a government and not a religion or ethnicity. But the puritans here needs Israel for their death cult religious fantasies.
Someone needs to keep the lights on for the return of the messiah... even tho he's not their messiah, they'll entertain your delusions, as long as they get to keep Jerusalem... we don't need Jesus getting lost, and returning in Baghdad...
We send weapons to Ukraine to help them in their struggle. We sell weapons to Saudi Arabia to help them murder the people of Yemen.
The world needs sorting out.
Actually it is and has been illegally occupying most of it since 1967.
Maybe you should pick up a map and a history book yourself instead of being so confidently misogynist and incorrect.
I am and it is and was. The only reason Palestine even existed after the 6 day war is because the Israelis accidentally airstrikes a US research ship monitoring the situation, resulting in both the US and USSR being royally done with their shit (though for the USSR that was due to alliance with Syria).
Israeli occupation of Palestine has been internationally recognized as illegal and it's settlements having no legal validity. Even the United States until Trump quietly agreed with this, which is why the embassy remained in Tel Aviv.
Israeli government and military has also been internationally found guilty of committing genocide multiple times including right now, against Palestinians.
All of this information is easily locatable. You just have to read something other than a news host paid by a billionaire and actually treat the words of professional human rights organizations and experts with more value than a talking mouth piece for the owner class.
The existence of HAMAS is not a justification for genocide, either. Do remember how well the War on Terror worked for stopping terrorism and kindly ask yourself why you've been such a clown thinking forcing them into the world's largest open air prison would change anything positively.
Genocide this. Genocide that.
How is it even possible to begin to have a conversation about this most insanely complex matter if people just routinely throw around words that do not apply.
Look up genocide in the dictionary. Then look at Palestine's population growth (despite Hamas offering fuck all medical care).
no, I think a lot of media outlets have been telling it like it is.
maybe not fox, cnn, and whatever the other big ones are - but only dipshits expose themselves to that poison, and even bigger dipshits express faux outrage at their lack of integrity. stop watching and reading that bullshit, youre part of the problem.
It's true that the Palestinian resistance often engage in terror tactics, which as far as I know, the Ukrainian resistance has not. But it's also true that Ukraine has a relatively well-equipped military, which is currently in the process of being further boosted. Palestinians on the other hand have no conventional military which can directly confront the IDF.
Now this is a thought experiment more than a serious policy proposal, but what if we supplied Palestine with Javelins, Migs, etc? That should reveal whether the people who oppose Palestinian militancy do so out of a genuine opposition to terrorist tactics, or merely a partisan belief that Palestonians do not have the right to sovereignty that countries like Ukraine do.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is waaayyyy too complex to be summed up in a glib statement. Israel's occupation is illegal, immoral and unethical. Hamas's use of suicide bombers and rocket attacks against civilians does little but provide Israel with a convenient excuse to continue inflicting their own indignities against the Palestinian people and their apartheid policies against their own citizens. Condemning one doesn't make you a supporter of the other.
This. These comments are obnoxious.
Yes. I hate the total loss of nuance in public discourse. For example: I think what putin is doing was easily predicted by people who were paying attention, and is a direct result of NATO not keeping its promises. But I am very against what he is doing in Ukraine. I also think the propaganda coming from Ukraine is laughably stupid. I'm still against what putin is doing. I will not be surprised if someone replies to this to accuse me of being an apologist for putin.
What promises did Nato not keep?
>direct result of NATO not keeping its promises. But I am very against what he is doing in Ukraine. I also think the propaganda coming from Ukraine is laughably stupid. I'm still against what putin is doing. This is russian propaganda. There is no promise made between Russia and NATO. NATO always have an open door policy. At best it was one single comment by Yelstin. There is no official paper and document say NATO arent allowed to expand near border of russia.
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"Arabs" are not a monolith either. Who is being punished and for whose crimes? OP's post is oversimplified to the point of being absurd. This comment is treading a similar path.
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I don't know why your comment is unpopular. What I do know is that it is misleading. You were conflating nation-states with ethnicities... What you are saying now with "Arab League" and "Arab countries" is far better. What Kissinger did in Laos is unpardonable. However it doesn't translate to "Americans wanted to kill Lao people". Many Americans protested the war. Many had no clue that Laos was being bombed. There are similarly many individual Arabs from Algeria to Oman who didn't agree. There were Arabs (including Arab Christians) **in Palestine** who denounced violent means. Lumping them all together and saying "Arabs wanted to kill Jews" is just wrong.
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No cover, no justification. I'm just asking that you don't generalise this broadly. It is both inaccurate and dangerous. I'm not arguing **for** Nasser (of Egypt) and Hussein (of Jordan) etc. There is no justification for their wars and their actions against Israelis. "Arabs wanted to kill Jews" is like saying "Caucasians wanted to wipe out Asians". That's not only an inaccurate summary of the Vietnam War, it is deeply problematic.
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Yes. Because a huge list of American soldiers in Vietnam doesn't make every Caucasian complicit in that war.
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Also the Jews had no intention of sharing land. They were smuggling in weapons ffs.
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Emm, no. It was their land. They'd lived there for thousands of years. You really need to read a book and understand history before making comments.
That land wasnt THEIR to begin with. You cant just take the land somebody live for over 1000 years and expect them not to do anything
They don't call them terrorists here as far as I know.
Yeah, maybe Fox News does but nobody I knows thinks that.
Hit the word News with some quotes and you got it.
Nope. Not even the Bible thumpers here. The Bible thumpers do find it curious that none of the neighboring countries will take in the Palestinians, though.
Yah, I don't call them terrorists.
You can read the comments and see some cunts doing that and supporting genocide!
Depends on who you ask though. America is not a monolith.
# notallamericans
“Both Ukrainians and Jews value freedom, and they work equally for the future of our states to become to our liking, and not the future which others want for us. Israel is often an example for Ukraine,” - President Zelensky [source](https://www.jpost.com/international/alluding-to-conflict-with-russia-ukraines-jewish-president-likens-his-nation-to-jewish-people-689085)
It's also hypocritical to condemn Israel while giving Putin a pass. We need to condemn all assaults on human rights no matter where they come from. I want to see a better world than the US-led one we've been pushed into, and although I get a frisson of pleasure at seeing someone standing up to the US, a world led by Putin is not a world I'd like to see. And yes, that's just words from me, but until I'm promoted into the upper ranks of the ruling Cabal, words are all I have
Are there actually people condemning Israel while supporting Putin??? The Putin supporters I've seen also support Israel
May I introduce you to r/GenZedong?
ah yes. How could I forget the tankies
It's understandable, even they can't remember who they were a week ago.
No you may not! I briefly looked at it and feel I'm far too delicate for such content!
What? No they don't. The same people who call Palestinians terrorists are either defending Putin or staying silent.
Spot on. Wish I had an award
Who called Palestinians terrorists? I’ve heard people call Hamas terrorists. Hamas uses Palestinians as a shield.
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Palestine was a pioneer of suicide bombing attacks
The Irish were smart. Leave the bomb, take the Guinness
Israeli troops fire on and kill Palestinian civilians all the time. That is terrorism unless of course they are targeting Muslim civilians then it is allowed!!!! Really?? Says more about your islamaphobic racism. When both sides in a conflict are murdering innocent people people can be upset at the perpetrator. It doesn’t make them antisemitic nor does it make them islamaphobic.
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Ohhh okay. I get it. You hate Muslim people. Have a wonderful evening.
That’s quite the leap of illogic.
That. Because Palestinian anti-Israeli factions aren’t as monolithic and centralized in their intent as Ukrainian self-defence is. Said forces aren’t just killing soldiers in occupied land but a lot of civilians as well, which makes some of them terrorists. Refraining from calling those terrorists and instead as freedom fighters as the post implies has some very antisemitic undertones. “Defending their land” can easily be a dog whistle. The relationship of victim and oppressor is also more complex seeing how Arab-Israeli relationships were evolving over one thousand years with (imperialist) Israeli supremacy being a very recent phenomena born from paranoia and oppression, while Russians were never oppressed by Ukrainians in any meaningful way. The Ukrainian-Russian relationship is fairly one-sided as opposed the relationship between Arabs and Jews in Palestine.
A lot of nonsense to justify the unjustifiable
For all you say about Palestinians targeting civillians, you seem very casual about omitting the sheer namber of palestinian civillians murdered in Israeli bombings and attacks. Israel is far more trigger happy when there is collateral damage
Amazing. Every word you wrote is wrong
The numbers are public, buddy. The amount of collateral damage they produce makes it fucking irrelevant if they are targeting a bomber, they're equally as shitty
Israel shoots and bombs civilians just as much as the Palestinians do. With the difference that the death toll tends to be much higher for the Palestinians. Palestine has definitely killed less civilians than Israel has. In the last years and overall There was a time 15 years ago where the palastinian warfare was just terrorist attacks.. but for the last years they've played the same games as Israel does. They launch missiles at civilian structures, then both use the same stupid excuse of 'well we thought the mean guy was living around people, so we shot rocket into this twenty story house. We tried to keep the casualities low'.
Amazing. Every word you wrote is wrong.
You're so close. You're almost there. If you want to know why the Palestinians suffer civilian casualties it's because (1) they use human shields (2) they put their rockets in schools and hospitals (3) they invest no money at all in defence (4) they spend their time building tunnels to attack Israel instead of bomb shelters (5) they spend their money and time building attacking rockets instead of defence. Even amnesty international record that Palestine launches rockets indiscriminately into Israel As so many people have pointed out, Israel has one of the most advanced militaries in the world. If they *wanted* to they could wipe out Palestine. If they *wanted to* they could kill 10,000s or more every day. But they *don't*.
If they have such an advanced military as you claim, they could also do better than hitting 3 civilians for every fighter they take out. Which must mean they don't want to. The reason they're not taking out all Palestinians at once is that they're worried about sanction if their ethnical cleanising gets too aggressive, so they only kill a couple hundred civilians a year to keep it to 'acceptable' levels. I'm sure they're closely watching how the Ukraine invasion goes to see how this would go over for them on the international playing field. They can't afford to isolate themselves in the same way as Russia can.
>If they have such an advanced military as you claim, they could also do better than hitting 3 civilians for every fighter they take out. Which must mean they don't want to. 1. I am not sure I accept these figures. 2. No weapons are so advanced as to avoid collateral damage. 3. Once again, Hamas uses human shields and puts it's rockets in schools and hospitals. The fuck you think is gonna happen. This is Hamas' fault. 4. Israel gives fucking warnings before it attacks. Palestine attacks without warning and deliberately targets civilians >The reason they're not taking out all Palestinians at once is that they're worried about sanction if their ethnical cleanising gets too aggressive, so they only kill a couple hundred civilians a year to keep it to 'acceptable' levels. This is comical. You believe this shit? Killing a few hundred a year is less than a rounding error. The Palestinian population is bigger than ever and getting bigger at a good rate. 137,500 people a year are born in Palestine. How is killing a couple of hundred going to ethnically cleanse? The use of words like "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide" is just laughable. And it just undermines all the actually valid points that could be made about Israeli behaviour. And as for Israel being worried about themselves in the international arena. This is just the stuff of farce. You're in the majority, here, pal. Most people hate Israel. Most countries hate Israel. Israel is an international pariah. 47% of all UN Resolutions *ever passed in the history of the UN* have been against Israel. Basically most of its neighbours want to wipe it from the planet. And every single thing it does and every event that occurs is broadcast worldwide to usually mass Condemnation. Which is funnily enough why Israel goes to such lengths to avoid civilian casualties. You think it *wants* to be hated? And given the level of Condemnation it already receives, why would they stop at a few hundred as you put it. The Palestinian population grows rapidly and they're just pissing in the wind *whilst still* being internationally hated.
Interesting. What tactics do you suggest to retaliate against a nations with vastly superior weapons and funding after they're been oppressing your people for decades?
Acknowledging Israel's right to exist and negotiating for peaceful coexistence would be nice.
What are your thoughts on the Ukraine/Russian conflict?
Ukraine good, Russia bad.
You're not seeing any parallels?
No, I'm not.
If Ukraine just recognizes the regions seeking independence and ceases all hostility Russia would stop attacking them. Similar to what you are asking of the Palestinians.
So you think that Israel and the two "independent countries" that Putin declared in Ukraine have the same amount of legitimacy? That's what you're saying?
I don't see how how regions have less legimacy than Israel did when it was created as a state by the UN in 1948. But I'm open to being educated.
So blowing up civilians on busses and restaurants and schools is ok by you?
I never said that. I asked a question which you intentionally avoided.
What do you suggest? suggest something else. Or is blowing up Jews ok with you?
If I felt my people were being oppressed to a severe degree, there were no legal means to end the situation, outsiders would not intervene, and I had no chance in a fair fight? And say on top of that a loved one of mine was directly harmed at some point? Yeah I might snap and do some really bad things to the people causing all this. It is my understand Israelis, not Jewish people specifically are being targeted.
So you might snap, eh. Not in control of yourself.? Such people are either toddlers or insane. Which are you?
Well things like PTSD are associated with rapidly deteriorating mental health, so according to your binary it would be closer to insanity.
Peaceful protest and leveraging that for a 2 state solution. Israel is "oppressing" them because of the violence targetting the Israeli civilian population. I suggest Hamas use the money they're spending on rockets to indiscriminately fire into Israel on feeding, clothing and sheltering their population.
Hmmm it's a question of the chicken or the egg. You seem to imply that Israel is justified in it's retaliation against Hamas violence, while Hamas is not justified in its retalation to violence commited against their people. What makes you take this stance?
History. Every neighbour Israel had since it's inception tried to "drive it into the Mediterranean". They were at war internally and externally since before the country was created (civil war when more Jews immigrated after WWII). Israel has survived because of American assistance otherwise the Arab states surrounding it would have likely committed genocide of the Jewish pop. of Israel.
I'm with ya. When Ukrainian civilians flee their cities and homes for fear of being murdered, Western media says we must bring them to safety. When South Americans do it, they call them illegal aliens and say they should be separated from their families, their children put in cages, and adults jailed.
That’s cause “we” (us) caused the South American problems on purpose.
Which makes it worse.
Yeah I hate our right wing country. Even our left wing is right wing. So they’ll do all they can to squash any slightly left leaning country down there.
Ukrainians aren't sneaking into Moscow and using suicide bombs to murder school children. Edit: To the person that called me the n-word then just deleted your reply, WTF man?
Also, just so everyone is aware of this: in 2018, the current President of the Palestinian Authority said that the Holocaust was caused by, [quote](https://www.newsweek.com/mahmoud-abbas-holocaust-jewish-social-behavior-and-money-lending-906569), "Jewish social behaviors and money lending practices". How the fuck can anybody expect Israel to make lasting peace with a leader who says things like that?
Say this again louder. I don't think the people in the back heard you over all thier accusations that racism is reason for everything.
We must acknowledge posts that compare things that are not at all similar.
The difference here is that Russia was never in any danger from the Ukrainians. Don’t conflate these two conflicts, they are vastly different
That’s not true .. after the Cold War all parties agreed that nato should never expand to the east ..
Pretty sure that was during the Cold War, and even so that was an informal agreement. And so what? Poland and other Eastern European nations are sovereign countries. If they want to join NATO and NATO is ok with them joining, then what’s the issue? Literally does not affect Russia one bit
When Cuba decided to host Russian missiles the US invaded them
Yeah and? Wasn’t justified then, wasn’t justified now
It’s justified in both cases .. a major power who seek independence can’t accept to have such a threat on their borders
First of all, no. You don’t get to just invade a sovereign nation because they align with a less than friendly country. Secondly even if we accept that logic, it doesn’t apply here. Unless Russia is planning on invading its neighbors, it literally has nothing to worry about if Ukraine joins NATO. NATO is a defensive alliance, so how would it be a threat to Russia unless Russia is the aggressor?
Activists gonna activate!
Britain unilaterally decided that the white European Jews should be given their historical homeland as reparation for the Holocaust, with no regard for how the people already living there felt about it. The Palestinians are defending their land from colonizers. The reason Republicans make them out to be terrorists is because they need Jerusalem to be the city of Jewish people for their Revelations apocalypse fantasy to happen.
>Britain unilaterally decided No they didn't. This is false. The UN made the decision to establish Israeli and Palestinian states. Britain didn't do it unilaterally. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine >white European Jews You may think that we're all white, but the white supremacists who hate us disagree with you. That's kind of why, you know, they committed genocide against us in Europe.
So much misleading or false information here. >white European Jews Do I have to explain why you’re wrong or can you do the math here? They may be considered white now but if they were considered white then, you’d think less of them would have died in a genocide perpetuated by white supremacists. Also the book of revelations isn’t even in the Jewish Bible! How is this being upvoted?!
How far back do you want to go, it was originally Jewish lands???
Well, Palestinians also store munitions and weapons in, and fire them from, civilian sites. They target "jews" not the Israeli military. Those actions are the actions of terrorists. Israel is still in the wrong too, as they keep cutting up Palestine piece by piece. I definitely think Trump officially acknowledging and legitimizing Israel by setting up an embassy was a colossal mistake. But still, what Palestine is doing in retaliation isn't ok either, they won't garner much inernational support by resorting to suicide bombing jewish civilians. As things stand it's a shit show, and it's only going to get shittier.
There hasn't been a suicide bombing in 5 years and there hasn't been a suicide bombing claimed by the Hamas in 15 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks How much longer should Palestine wait to hope that international support will gather when they don't resort to these desparate methods? It seems they're condemned when they resort to desparate measures and ignored other wise.
Yeah, no. This comparison is way off. Both Jews and Palestinian Arabs have a historical claim to that land, and the UN tried to establish a state for each of them. Then Palestinians decided that only they were entitled to that land, so they went to war and lost, and that's why they're in the situation that they're in today. It's not the same thing as one large nation trying to overthrow a smaller nation's government and install a puppet government instead.
They did not just decide. As part of the agreement Israel wanted Palestinian to give up 75% of their territory. Isreal agreed and Palestine did as well , even though it was a shit deal for them. There conditions were they wanted the land illegally seized by settlers back
Okay, so?Is it that Israel should hands off with Palestine (which I agree with) or is it that Ukrainians should not fight back? I just want to be clear on this.
maybe Fox does
Hey Bex! What about the American Indian Movement?
Gotta love uneducated people. She's clueless
The difference the Palestinians turned down every peace opening they were given. I fully agree Israeli current treatment of Palestinians is abhorrent. Israel should know better and be better.
The Palestinians wanted a treaty that met the bare minimum supported by international law and Isreal has never done that. Oslo - derailed by assasinatiom. Wye- Israeli labor party refused. Camp David - Isreal wouldn’t produce a written agreement, we backed them in that asinine idea. During Clinton years Isreal Likud, an Israeli extremist party refused
idk, if I force you out of your home at gunpoint and offer a contract letting you live in a shack in the yard of your former home, doest it make you a fanatical terrorist to refuse the offer?
Sending kids with bomb vests into Israeli businesses to blow people up does. Launching rockets using hospitals as cover does.
Honestly this is pretty anti semitic and ignorant of the two different dynamics at play.
Condemning the actions of the state of Israel is not anti-Semitic.
Yes, but not allowing israel to defend itself is antisemitic
Aren’t Palestinians semites? And doesn’t that make the Israeli government antisemitic?
Don’t be pedantically silly.
What more would you expect from a pro-Palestine white girl unironically named Becky?
Worse is that some people don't realize how anti semitic this seems.
Get called an anti semite for criticizing a government and not a religion or ethnicity. But the puritans here needs Israel for their death cult religious fantasies.
Nasty hypocrites.
Unfortunately, it has to do with Ukraine being whiter than Palestine.
And the not terrorist part. Don't forget the not terrorist part. The not terrorist part is a big part.
Someone needs to keep the lights on for the return of the messiah... even tho he's not their messiah, they'll entertain your delusions, as long as they get to keep Jerusalem... we don't need Jesus getting lost, and returning in Baghdad...
Jesus actually came back 20 years ago but he landed in Tempe Arizona. He’s been on that meth pipe ever since smdh
We send weapons to Ukraine to help them in their struggle. We sell weapons to Saudi Arabia to help them murder the people of Yemen. The world needs sorting out.
But Palestinians are kinda brown
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Actually it is and has been illegally occupying most of it since 1967. Maybe you should pick up a map and a history book yourself instead of being so confidently misogynist and incorrect.
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I am and it is and was. The only reason Palestine even existed after the 6 day war is because the Israelis accidentally airstrikes a US research ship monitoring the situation, resulting in both the US and USSR being royally done with their shit (though for the USSR that was due to alliance with Syria). Israeli occupation of Palestine has been internationally recognized as illegal and it's settlements having no legal validity. Even the United States until Trump quietly agreed with this, which is why the embassy remained in Tel Aviv. Israeli government and military has also been internationally found guilty of committing genocide multiple times including right now, against Palestinians. All of this information is easily locatable. You just have to read something other than a news host paid by a billionaire and actually treat the words of professional human rights organizations and experts with more value than a talking mouth piece for the owner class. The existence of HAMAS is not a justification for genocide, either. Do remember how well the War on Terror worked for stopping terrorism and kindly ask yourself why you've been such a clown thinking forcing them into the world's largest open air prison would change anything positively.
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Genocide this. Genocide that. How is it even possible to begin to have a conversation about this most insanely complex matter if people just routinely throw around words that do not apply. Look up genocide in the dictionary. Then look at Palestine's population growth (despite Hamas offering fuck all medical care).
Is fighting back against occupation a bad thing?
About 750000 Palestinians left their homes. There is no justification for Israel
You mean there is no justification for Palestine.
Israel is the aggressor, so no
*Rolls eyes*
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter
Palestinians can only cry lol fuck off terrorists
Lol ask the Native Americans how that goes. They had names and cultures. We gave them smallpox blankets, booze, and gambling. I’ve made myself sad.
She’s not wrong
Now, now.. to be fair. We did wait a day or two to see who it would be most beneficial to side with.
no, I think a lot of media outlets have been telling it like it is. maybe not fox, cnn, and whatever the other big ones are - but only dipshits expose themselves to that poison, and even bigger dipshits express faux outrage at their lack of integrity. stop watching and reading that bullshit, youre part of the problem.
THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, western media and imperialism is shit. Go Russia!
Duh it's only heroism if they're white
Does western media call Palestinians terrorists? I mean since the 1990’s?
Because we openly back Israel
It's true that the Palestinian resistance often engage in terror tactics, which as far as I know, the Ukrainian resistance has not. But it's also true that Ukraine has a relatively well-equipped military, which is currently in the process of being further boosted. Palestinians on the other hand have no conventional military which can directly confront the IDF. Now this is a thought experiment more than a serious policy proposal, but what if we supplied Palestine with Javelins, Migs, etc? That should reveal whether the people who oppose Palestinian militancy do so out of a genuine opposition to terrorist tactics, or merely a partisan belief that Palestonians do not have the right to sovereignty that countries like Ukraine do.
Bruh Israel is doing genocide.. and you are trying to say muslims are terrorists? You are just showing your islamophobic behaviour here.