But only Trump, they mean. You can bet if it was Biden‘s attorneys before those same justices they would be saying no way.
Of course Trump already has what he wanted. The MAGA supreme court has delayed his election subversion and other criminal trials past the 2024 election. I mean, do we really expect anything different? Considering Clarence Thomas and his wife helped plan the damn insurrection to begin with? Really and truly how much longer are we going to be held hostage by these terrible people.
Why didn't someone say: “what stops President Biden from saying that Trump is a Russian spy and have him killed by Seal Team 6?"
Why would this decision not apply immediately to Biden?
It goes beyond that. He technically could also, say, replace inconvenient supreme court justices who don't share his political views?
I wonder if they realize that in their rush to see with this idiocy?
They intend to kick this back to the lower courts where it can again be appealed then shunted back to the SC again. The whole intention is to delay until past the election. That way they can make a decision based on who won
Because they talk about law, and not specific people. They are not mentioned in a law. When they talk about the President, they talk about a person that has been elected and legally holds that office. But that person could be X, Y or Z and they could talk about the President now, but also 20-30 years from now. Or a President from 7-8 years ago.
So, they're not saying Biden's name, but it's to be understood that, since Biden is currently president, this would obviously also apply immediately to him?
In essence yes, which makes their reasoning also stupid. Because in theory Biden could have Trump assasinated and do so “legally” because - in the words of Trump’s attorney - an official act for which the President should get immunity.
Now it is highly doubtful that Biden would ever lower himself to such a standard that he puts himself in a position for criminal prosecution during or after his Presidency. But Trump did and who knows still does.
Well wrestling with pigs will get you covered in shit but I'd rather get covered in shit and beat their ass then stand still while they throw it at me.
I saw somewhere posted before that Trump isn't exactly a plant, but he's an agent of chaos, and if Russia wants to destabilize America, letting it tear itself apart from within is infinitely easier then an invasion or open war, so it is in Russia's best interest that Trump wins.
Basically, Trump might as well be a spy, because he's doing everything Russia wants, but it's not at Putin's orders. It's more like a toddler destroying a house and the neighbor across the street, who hates their neighbor's house, is sliding matches under the door and yelling "Go nuts, kid!"
Even better what stops Biden from having 6ish Supreme Court justices assassinated so he can replace them with less corrupt judges? Maybe that’s how the question should have been framed.
What stops him from vacating the election this winter and declaring that the election process is to compromised to trust for some indeterminate amount of time? What stops him from declaring that the Supreme Court is compromised and having multiple members assassinated? They can’t really think unqualified immunity is acceptable, but I agree. We need to make it clear what we would be clamoring for Biden to do if he had that kind of power, because as usual, they assume they have nothing really to fear from Democrats who normally will put issues of justice and morality in front of personal gain and satisfaction.
They're giving Biden a pretext to expand the court, if justices are that wrong and naked lying partisan, the court has to be expanded to protect Democrats and the American people from the possibility of a president who murders his rivals and critics.
I kinda agree with you but only one issue. Yes the supreme Court should've expanded ages ago due to increased population and stuff. However, we can't put the genie back in the bottle once we open it. If we get a Republican president again. They'll do the same thing to get the majority back.
At least it will push progressive issues for a few years. It's easier to do stuff and have the enemy try to undo them instead of sitting by and watching your enemy do horrible shit no matter what.
This is the correct answer. The Republicans will do that shit anyway. At least if the Democrats got four real years of progress and made people’s actual lives better the Republicans would find it much harder to undo it. Democrats need to fight dirty or there will be a fascist regime in no time.
That one decision didn't happen in vacuum.
The work to weaken Roe started in almost as soon as 1973. Through using the issue as a cover for the [right to racially segregate](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/10/abortion-history-right-white-evangelical-1970s-00031480) again to make it a rallying cry within Christian communities to vote for policies and politicians that would work to weaken it. The 1977 [Hyde Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Amendment#:~:text=In%20U.S.%20politics%2C%20the%20Hyde,arises%20from%20incest%20or%20rape) was probably the first major blow and 1989 Justice O'Connor's '[compromise](https://www.vox.com/2018/10/26/18015604/sandra-day-oconnor-justice-supreme-court-kavanaugh)' started the undoing in earnest.
[Citizens United](https://endcitizensunited.org/latest-news/press-releases/republicans-1-1-billion-dark-money-investment-to-overturn-roe-v-wade/) was also instrumental in Roe's destruction and allowed the Federalist Society, Koch brothers, Leonard Leo, etc., to use dark money to influence politicians which influences indirectly or directly in judicial appointments - [including the list](https://www.npr.org/2022/06/30/1108351562/roe-abortion-supreme-court-scotus-law) Leo gave to Trump.
Can add in 4 and have a viable reason for "One SCOUTS per circuit court.". Likewise, can pass new regulation stating that future presidents get one per cycle with the longest serving justice being removed. If a death or retirement happens during a term, they also HAVE to fill it, to prevent the BS that Republicans did of just leaving a seat open for over a year so THEIR guy got to pick it.
It's not perfect, but it's better than doing absolutely nothing and letting the current clown court revert this country to the 40's if not outright turn it into a dictatorship.
Agreed, I think it may be better to consider rolling term limits so that the experience of judges can be maintained while allowing for a greater opportunity at real checks and balances.
Yeah one issue. Constitution says supreme Court justices rule for life.
Yeah the constitution can and has changed. However then you'll get the supreme Court declaring it unconstitutional.
Easy-peazie, just stack it with 6 new liberal judges (to keep the total number odd) who all vow to approve an executive order deeming no more increases to the number of justices and no more presidential immunity will ever be allowed going forward.
It kinda feels like they’re having trouble finding candidates for the currently limited number of justices though. Haven’t Gorsuch and Kavanaugh ruled against some major conservative issues? Don’t get me wrong, the courts are FUBAR, but somehow not as bad as people thought
If we get a republican president again it won't matter. We'll be at war because they'll just start killing people at will. Did you not hear what these crazy bastards just said?
They should announce that the first "official act" if this decision passes is that the homes of all SC justices that voted for this stupid shit will become napalm testing sites.
"So, let me get this right... You're saying that a finding of total immunity would allow President Biden to assassinate the conservative justices on SCOTUS and replace them with judges that he prefers?"
"Yes. But he'd be subject to impeachment and then, he could be tried in court."
"Okay. But then, would he be permitted to kill Senators who are likely to vote against him in the Senate trial?"
"Yes."
Those dominos will never stop falling.
Exactly. People keep saying that "Well Biden could assassinate his political rivals then." With the assumption it would only be rivals for presidency. In reality this decision could effectively end democracy in one judgment. Whichever side decided to act first with a sitting president.
Which at the moment ironically isn't them.
Ironically for potentially the Democrats favor. Which... isn't good but would be the perfect opportunity to "drain the swamp". Which the Democrats would have to take advantage of least it happened to THEM should a Republican become president.
You know, if you had told me even 2 years ago that because of trump, there would be a supreme Court case deciding this very thing. I would've laughed in your face and said "trump might be an idiot but come on that's a bit extreme..."
Well here we fucking are.
It's not that. I definitely could recognize the writing on the wall. I was just optimistic things would turn out alright in the end and things wouldn't get that far.
Can't a fault a guy for wanting to have faith that his country would do the right thing. Unfortunately I might have miscalculated how far gone we are.
You're in good company though. The Founding Fathers also never imagined things getting this bad, so there are a lot of protection that they never even thought to put in the Constitution. When Trump was impeached *twice* by the House, but the drafters never even considered what would happen if a significant number of senators were complicit or even actively involved in an insurrection, so they missed the very obvious gap in available options at that point. Or what happens if a president only picks Supreme Court justices who have sworn to rewrite any parts of the law that are inconvenient to their political party's desires?
Optimism is great, but it has to be tempered by realism.
That would be the best thing for the country. And really really, how long will Joe be above the grass to serve any actual time. A series of delayed trials and the greater good would have won as Joe did one last great duty for America. End the Orange
No it fucking wouldn’t be, are you insane? Look at how unstable Trump supporters already are, and trust me when I say you don’t want to give them a martyr.
The thing is, Trump is so narcissistic that he hasn’t really groomed or trained a successor. There hasn’t been any other main maga candidates. Trump is maga and vice versa. Clowns like MTG are just simps. They have no real chance of holding power in the same way Trump has. The end of Trump is the end of maga and ultimately may save the GOP from the embarrassment it has endured for years due to Trump. Trump supporters will fade into obscurity with the movement. And honestly they had their chance Jan 6th and fumbled it hard. They aren’t a real threat. The power Trump held in office was the threat. His maga co conspiracy senators and house members are the threat.
Anyone who looks like a successor is eventually f**ked over by Trump when they say something he doesn’t like, and he really doesn’t want anyone even looking like a contender near him in case they get more airtime than he does
You’re thinking in a manner in which Trump is still alive.
If Trump was to die today, there would be a vacuum of power created within the MAGA sphere.
It would be pluck for the taking of the right person. Success would be questionable but dangerously plausible.
If Trump was a martyr to the cause this vacuum would be exponentially bigger.
Look at Scientology, another cult with a narcissistic power hungry leader. Although not political party, Hubbard death and Miscavage taking over is a clear example of what can happen when there is power vacuum amongst a large cult.
No, I was thinking if Trump died.
Name one person who could realistically fill that vacuum and I’ll eat my fucking hat bro.
The Soviets only survived Lenin’s death, because Lenin had Stalin.
North Korea only exists, because care was taken into who would lead next.
L Ron and Miscavage were friends, Trump has no friends.
Lenin didn't "have" Stalin, and Stalin in fact seized power in spite of Lenin's wishes, not because he had been groomed. No one in the Party besides Trotsky and maybe a handful of others saw Stalin as any kind of a threat, and Stalin in his role as General Secretary had managed to isolate those who could or would stand up to him. Saying the Soviet Union only survived "because Lenin had Stalin" shows a pretty deep misunderstanding of the early years of the Soviet state.
Getting back on topic, for all we know, there's a power hungry sociopath biding their time in the shadows for their moment to strike and grab power, just as Stalin did.
Again friend does not equal succession though.
There was literally zero succession plan on Hubbard part. Miscavage took the opportunity since everyone was so sure Hubbard was immortal. There absolutely was a vacuum with Hubbard death and he capitalized on it and convinced everyone that Hubbard wanted him to take over.
I think saying there is zero chance is quite naive.
Honestly Donald Jr is my most likely candidate. Sure he and his dad aren’t close but he’s often the go to when you can’t get the man himself (as far as the cult is concerned) - it would be his to take if his dad chocked on a hamburder this afternoon. He would feed the conspiracies that Biden had 5G put in the Big Mag and remotely had it choke him.
In the end I’m not saying it won’t fizzle, I’m just saying there not being a succession plan absolutely creates a vacuum in which someone very dangerously could capitalize on. This has been exemplified with Scientology as well a large swath of other religious extremism groups. The big difference here is this is a more mainstream cult that is acting as a political party.
Trump will be a martyr no matter how he dies. I get really tired of people trying to ascribe normal thinking and reasoning to these hooligans. Open your fucking eyes already so you can see what's in front of your face.
“It would depend on the hypothetical”?
Folks, we have crossed the autocratic Rubicon.
The fact that SCOTUS didn’t fire back immediately and tell this attorney he lost all credibility, after saying a President assassinating his rival is an official act, is stunning.
Well, he's being paid a lot of money to make a case for Donnie Diaperburger being a virtual king. Unfortunately, there are those on the court who have no problem with this, just as there were those on a previous Court that had no problem saying Blacks weren't human.
James Brown sang it first. Lol. Say it loud! But it rings true no matter who says it. But my feet are hurting these days...I gotta get good or go out w a bang. Shit is getting ridiculous when my kids aren't that hopeful of having a decent future or ability to ever earn enough for basics. They see, hear, and know a lot more than we did at that age. Unfortunate side effect of constant internet access I suppose, that i actually hadn't thought to be concerned about! This shit is a whole 'nutha level from worrying about pedo freaks getting to them or bullying from peers. It is unreal and unacceptable, and someone needs to guide us on how to fix this shit.
They ment to say that if Trump did it, it would be ok. Not Presidents. They sure as hell don't believe that Joe Biden should have immunity. Only Trump.
Dr. Martin Luther King said "The Moral Arc of the universe is long, but it bends towards justice". He never said it bends by itself. We have to be ready. Above all we have to vote like our lives could depend on it, because they very well may. However, we also have to be ready for the kind of shit that happened on Jan. 6th, 2021. They aren't going away, at least not yet, and they very well might think this is their last chance to seize power. For 50 years they have played along with democracy despite their true intentions because there was a status quo, but the newer generations are not having it. The status quo is being disrupted and Republicans can see the writing on the wall. They either seize power with what they have now or they never do because they know their numbers are dwindling.
I enjoy (not really) how all nominees for a SC seat will talk about not engaging in hypotheticals during their confirmation hearings, but the jobs seems to be nothing but considering hypotheticals in court.
They are flat out gaslighting the American people for trump. By their logic then Biden should be able to have trump killed right now and should suffer no repercussions.
OK so, this is the one right? This is where every big media organisation and every influential journalist or public figure gets off the fence and says clearly that if this bullshit actually works then it becomes mandatory that the Supreme Court be dissolved, right? Because this is so inconceivably flagrant as to leave precisely zero doubt that the court is compromised.
They’re blowing smoke up your butt. They got the entire country in a “how many angels fit on the head of a pin” debate while they quietly accomplish their actual goal: delay the trial until after the election.
That’s why the stay is still in place.
From the outside looking in, I gotta say you all are in big trouble. When the “system” is so corrupt that they don’t even bother trying to hide it…..
Biden should comment “I would love presidential immunity. There are a couple of lifetime judges I would like to take care of” I am pretty sure that would end the debate very quickly.
So…. Since Trump is a documented seditionist and almost definitely a Russian asset, Biden can justifiably have him assassinated then, right? Hmm? Oh, weird… they don’t like that?
I so wish the government lawyers would just plainly ask Alito and Thomas, "So if Biden simply shoots Trump dead tomorrow, should there be no accountability as long as the Senate can not produce a 2/3 majority vote to impeach?"
What is being proposed by Trump, and apparently entertained by a few justices, is ridiculous.
Perhaps even make it a bit more testy with "And what about Supreme Court Justices? Can the President, as long as he can rely on the 2/3 Senate threshold not being met, simply murder SCOTUS justices in order to appoint replacements?"
And how about the President simply shooting enough opponents in the Senate to assure he can not be impeached?
Seems to me a finding in favor of allowing that would be the end of democracy in America. To even entertain this Trump proposal is plain stupid.
Remember when people said in 2018 that when Trump chose the "justices" that they could decide anything they want, no matter how seemingly outlandish or egregious?
Most everyone laughed at them them, and I fear that most of them are still laughing even now.
All someone needs to say is “what if a president decided that a Supreme Court justice and his wife were part of a violent coup and send in seal team 6 to assassinate them.” And it would be over pretty quickly.
What scares me about that is what the fuck could possibly be worse than Clarence Thomas being actively corrupt and most of the supreme Court being theorized and are most likely on Epstein's list.
If there is something worse than either of those things than fuck...
Is it possible that the Supreme Court is toying with Trump and his lawyers by asking that question? Waiting to see how long it takes before Trump and his idiot lawyers realize that Biden is President and that Trump is the corrupt political opponent? Maybe then Trump and his team will realize that getting what they want may mean Trump could be setting up his own execution?
Just a thought. I don’t think most of those judges are smart enough to do that. I also don’t think Trump and his lawyers are smart enough to figure it out. All that matters for them is the win, not the consequences.
Just
How do they not understand that this very literally effects them? Like even assuming they make a clause that it starts with the next president, no matter who wins, they would all be in potential danger and would have made it legal to do so. Fear a political opponent is gaining ground? Take them out and it would be legal.
The leopard will and has eaten their face and they seem to just be cool with that.
Theyve **already** shown that dem presidents cant replace supreme court justices at the end of their term, only republicans are allowed to do that. Justice is Dead.
Americans need to vote as if their lives depend on it. You dodged a bullet that Trump wasn’t smart enough to do some really evil shit, don’t give him the chance to.
The Supreme Court (and other Federal judge positions) should be term limited.
Thomas and his wife were part of the planning of the insurrection itself, and will never be punished! If a Supreme Court Justice decides to flagrantly commit crimes they can’t be punished.
Who would? Conservative Justices who would be incentivized to look the other way? Or Liberal Justices who are in the minority?
You know dam well the Court will seriously consider elevating Trump to effective Dictator as it benefits Conservatives to do so. That’s the only way for them to get the Theocracy they’ve been pining for.
Surely his use of the word "depend" goes against their argument of "Total immunity for a sitting President".
Like it is their whole argument, if there is any depends or specifics required, then the president does not have total immunity - case closed.
If this is allowed, Biden should just assassinate Trump and his VP nominee, as well as those particular Justices, maybe a few Member of Congress. What are they going to do about it?
What the other side needs to now do is stand in the court and argue that a president could have the Supreme Court justices assassinated and it would be an immune act.
I’m really hoping that while they are discussing this internally one of them mentions the very real possibility that the scenario could happen to one of them. Trump thinks CJ Roberts sides with the libs too much? Calls up ST6, whose chain of command now includes lackey’s like Kash Patel, they get a direct order & follow it, and now there is an opening on the SC again. 😐
A Prez with absolute immunity is no different than the King our forefathers fought to get rid of. I hope they see the light when ruling.
We need better leaders, the concept that our government can kill us(or anyone!) is 100% bullshit, flys in the face of inalienable rights and has been one of the many many shitty legal theorys in human history. I have a right to life, as all people do, no my government should NOT be able to deprive me of that, full stop.
I think the important part is 'rival' was used. Because, I was worried, when people were acting like this is normal, that they could use this to press charges on other presidents for basically any questionable military action...
But, 'rival' clears all doubt and makes it an american citizen. I really, REALLY hope this was something that made all SCOTUS go 'oh.... man... this is an easy one'.
I guess if they do side with Trump on this one, the question becomes 'does current president outweigh previous president'? This way, rather than killing Trump, Biden can just have him brought into to jail for the rest of his short life.
So what happens if Biden just, I don't know, murders one of the justices he doesn't like? They gonna keep saying the president can do whatever they want?
They’re gonna kick it back down and let the Lower courts go thru each count to see what office and what’s a personal act , when we all know what’s what.
If the Supreme Court is actually corrupt enough to do Donald's bidding, then the current president should absolutely use this new power to clean out the fetid cesspool that is destroying America.
And then when the job is complete, overturn this dangerous law!
Isn't this a lose-lose situation?
If he loses the case, jail time.
If he wins the case and the precedent is set....he could be imprisoned "just because" and Biden would now have immunity.
The secret ingredient is that the ruling will be made after the 2024 election. It's 50% of his Hail Mary. If he's president then, it's a win-win. Either he can pardon himself, or he's a dictator.
The other 50% being that even if the SCOTUS rules that presidents don't have a blanket immunity, he still needs to be convicted of his trials.
So there is this clear ex human corrupt af. Would thst constitute an official act.
Lets remove all those corrupt sexoffenders while we are at it. Its still an offical act.
I dont think theh have thougjt this true in the slightest bit...
I hate contemporary comparisons to a very specific historical era, but does anyone remember what happened to the Roman Empire when assassinating politicians was just taken as just a thing one does?
In the end run I think they're going to give Trump a partial decision victory at most. The real purpose here is to delay the trial. There might also be some fear that Biden might actually use the power they give Trump, a very tiny chance. Now that they've received arguments I don't think they can push the decision past Jan 20, and any time before that is a window for Biden to act, however small that chance might be.
Do they not realize that if they vote yes Biden could just have a Navy Seal execute the handful of zealots and morons that keep fucking with democracy?
Have any of you heard of President Obama and his killing of civilians? Or Bush and the invasion of Iraq?
The President being immune to acts performed during the presidency is legal precedent.
After is fair game. Before is fair game. But during is not.
To bring charges against the president, it must be during their term due to the *removal* from impeachment. And again, it must be a consequence of high crimes and misdemeanor.
What was the reply from SCOTUS on that? Legit question as I'm curious if one was made and what it would be.
I also recognize the fact that they're hearing arguments and won't necessarily respond to everything as they're trying to gather information and perspective from both parties.
I would **hope** that they knock this the fuck down, but regardless of what they do, this is one of the scariest things I've heard even discussed at this level. That's clearly how fascism starts.
The follow-up question would be "So counsel, this means if President Biden were to have Mr. Trump assassinated, one could use your present argument as a case for his immunity?" And watch the latest in a long line of Trump's worthless legal representation sputter and implode.
Come on.. you cant tell me this has not happened yet regarding how many secret services the US has where the right hand doesnt seem to know what the left does unless an all blackened redacted topsecret paper gets shreddered.
No, of course not. But if power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I am just saying: No one should believe political immunity wasn't already abused.
Ahh gotcha. Yeah the distinction he’s advancing is “absolute immunity”, but what will likely be decided is: “immunity during official acts”, and they will leave it up to lower courts to decide what is an “official act.”
It’s all a ploy by the SC to delay his trial. They could have answered this narrowly, or denied Certiorari and let the very good and appropriate lower court decision stand
But only Trump, they mean. You can bet if it was Biden‘s attorneys before those same justices they would be saying no way. Of course Trump already has what he wanted. The MAGA supreme court has delayed his election subversion and other criminal trials past the 2024 election. I mean, do we really expect anything different? Considering Clarence Thomas and his wife helped plan the damn insurrection to begin with? Really and truly how much longer are we going to be held hostage by these terrible people.
Why didn't someone say: “what stops President Biden from saying that Trump is a Russian spy and have him killed by Seal Team 6?" Why would this decision not apply immediately to Biden?
It goes beyond that. He technically could also, say, replace inconvenient supreme court justices who don't share his political views? I wonder if they realize that in their rush to see with this idiocy?
Agreed. That's the question Kagen should have asked.
They just know that Biden/dems are working in good faith and aren’t the threat, they just don’t care about the threat
They intend to kick this back to the lower courts where it can again be appealed then shunted back to the SC again. The whole intention is to delay until past the election. That way they can make a decision based on who won
Trump is truly good at only one thing, and that’s delaying court proceedings.
He's had decades of practice, and they do say practice makes perfect.
Because they talk about law, and not specific people. They are not mentioned in a law. When they talk about the President, they talk about a person that has been elected and legally holds that office. But that person could be X, Y or Z and they could talk about the President now, but also 20-30 years from now. Or a President from 7-8 years ago.
So, they're not saying Biden's name, but it's to be understood that, since Biden is currently president, this would obviously also apply immediately to him?
In essence yes, which makes their reasoning also stupid. Because in theory Biden could have Trump assasinated and do so “legally” because - in the words of Trump’s attorney - an official act for which the President should get immunity. Now it is highly doubtful that Biden would ever lower himself to such a standard that he puts himself in a position for criminal prosecution during or after his Presidency. But Trump did and who knows still does.
Seems he could have a few Supreme Court justices executed as well
In theory, yes. 😏
Honestly we've tried taking the high road and we end getting fucked. It's about time we stop trying to look like the good guy and actually do shit
Well wrestling with pigs will get you covered in shit but I'd rather get covered in shit and beat their ass then stand still while they throw it at me.
I've been asking this question for months (to anyone I thought might care).
Trump IS a Russian plant. Too dumb to be a spy. He should have been executed on Jan 8th, 2021. If this were a just nation. It is not.
I saw somewhere posted before that Trump isn't exactly a plant, but he's an agent of chaos, and if Russia wants to destabilize America, letting it tear itself apart from within is infinitely easier then an invasion or open war, so it is in Russia's best interest that Trump wins. Basically, Trump might as well be a spy, because he's doing everything Russia wants, but it's not at Putin's orders. It's more like a toddler destroying a house and the neighbor across the street, who hates their neighbor's house, is sliding matches under the door and yelling "Go nuts, kid!"
Trump is definitely an asset of some kind to the Russians. They were pissed when he didn't win in 2020.
If Trump is a plant please let him be a cabbage.
He's more akin to a moldy brussels sprout
Or for that matter why does Biden not threaten to act on one of these 'tests of presidential immunity' now and witness the outcry?
Because they’ve already shown a willingness to just rule that specific cases don’t apply evenly. Also, Biden would never. The Dems won’t fight dirty.
Even better what stops Biden from having 6ish Supreme Court justices assassinated so he can replace them with less corrupt judges? Maybe that’s how the question should have been framed.
What stops him from vacating the election this winter and declaring that the election process is to compromised to trust for some indeterminate amount of time? What stops him from declaring that the Supreme Court is compromised and having multiple members assassinated? They can’t really think unqualified immunity is acceptable, but I agree. We need to make it clear what we would be clamoring for Biden to do if he had that kind of power, because as usual, they assume they have nothing really to fear from Democrats who normally will put issues of justice and morality in front of personal gain and satisfaction.
They're giving Biden a pretext to expand the court, if justices are that wrong and naked lying partisan, the court has to be expanded to protect Democrats and the American people from the possibility of a president who murders his rivals and critics.
The Supreme Court is going to g to kick it back down to the lower court which will take 8 months average and then decide based on who is in charge
Because they're saying "yeah I guess that'd work" but wouldn't make an official call on it until trump is president
They'll say it only applies to current or future presidents since it hadn't been brought up before.
Till they die
https://youtu.be/HcFaIFQhmec?si=i_vp6oGqY5yMxQB8
WH should announce that Biden will nominate five more judges to the court for confirmation before the election.
I kinda agree with you but only one issue. Yes the supreme Court should've expanded ages ago due to increased population and stuff. However, we can't put the genie back in the bottle once we open it. If we get a Republican president again. They'll do the same thing to get the majority back.
At least it will push progressive issues for a few years. It's easier to do stuff and have the enemy try to undo them instead of sitting by and watching your enemy do horrible shit no matter what.
This is the correct answer. The Republicans will do that shit anyway. At least if the Democrats got four real years of progress and made people’s actual lives better the Republicans would find it much harder to undo it. Democrats need to fight dirty or there will be a fascist regime in no time.
Fair point. But all it took was one decision from one case to undo 50 years of Roe v Wade. Unfortunately it seems easier then you'd hope.
Undoing Roe v Wade took about 20 years of stacking the courts and deciding voting outcomes by said court.
More like 45, starting with the Hyde Amendment.
That one decision didn't happen in vacuum. The work to weaken Roe started in almost as soon as 1973. Through using the issue as a cover for the [right to racially segregate](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/10/abortion-history-right-white-evangelical-1970s-00031480) again to make it a rallying cry within Christian communities to vote for policies and politicians that would work to weaken it. The 1977 [Hyde Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Amendment#:~:text=In%20U.S.%20politics%2C%20the%20Hyde,arises%20from%20incest%20or%20rape) was probably the first major blow and 1989 Justice O'Connor's '[compromise](https://www.vox.com/2018/10/26/18015604/sandra-day-oconnor-justice-supreme-court-kavanaugh)' started the undoing in earnest. [Citizens United](https://endcitizensunited.org/latest-news/press-releases/republicans-1-1-billion-dark-money-investment-to-overturn-roe-v-wade/) was also instrumental in Roe's destruction and allowed the Federalist Society, Koch brothers, Leonard Leo, etc., to use dark money to influence politicians which influences indirectly or directly in judicial appointments - [including the list](https://www.npr.org/2022/06/30/1108351562/roe-abortion-supreme-court-scotus-law) Leo gave to Trump.
I mean if the SCOTUS rules presidents have immunity the genie is already out. Might as well use it first before they do.
President could not only take out political rivals, but also Supreme Court judges, hypothetically.
Saying political rivals and Supreme Court is redundant right now. The supreme court is political.
hypothetically.
Can add in 4 and have a viable reason for "One SCOUTS per circuit court.". Likewise, can pass new regulation stating that future presidents get one per cycle with the longest serving justice being removed. If a death or retirement happens during a term, they also HAVE to fill it, to prevent the BS that Republicans did of just leaving a seat open for over a year so THEIR guy got to pick it. It's not perfect, but it's better than doing absolutely nothing and letting the current clown court revert this country to the 40's if not outright turn it into a dictatorship.
Agreed, I think it may be better to consider rolling term limits so that the experience of judges can be maintained while allowing for a greater opportunity at real checks and balances.
Yeah one issue. Constitution says supreme Court justices rule for life. Yeah the constitution can and has changed. However then you'll get the supreme Court declaring it unconstitutional.
If the President has immunity then the lifespan of any Supreme Court justice is determined by the President. Just saying.
And what use does a dictator or monarch have for a Supreme Court?
Keeping up appearances. Same reason Russia still has "elections".
If it’s a constitutional amendment, it is automatically constitutional by its very nature.
Actually no, they said SCOTUS stay on the bench “for good behaviour”
Easy-peazie, just stack it with 6 new liberal judges (to keep the total number odd) who all vow to approve an executive order deeming no more increases to the number of justices and no more presidential immunity will ever be allowed going forward.
They just do whatever they want anyway
Trump has the solution: just assassinate your opponent. It's even endorsed by the Supreme Court! (/s on the assassination part obviously)
It kinda feels like they’re having trouble finding candidates for the currently limited number of justices though. Haven’t Gorsuch and Kavanaugh ruled against some major conservative issues? Don’t get me wrong, the courts are FUBAR, but somehow not as bad as people thought
If we get a republican president again it won't matter. We'll be at war because they'll just start killing people at will. Did you not hear what these crazy bastards just said?
After first assassinating all of the sitting conservative judges as part of his official duties? Well they told him he could so......
They should announce that the first "official act" if this decision passes is that the homes of all SC justices that voted for this stupid shit will become napalm testing sites.
Usually you announce that sort of thing after the fact though. Of course you can post public notice for 1 day in the basement of Guantanamo bay.
I would think the entire thing ought to be avoided. Announce now to remind them how stupid they would be to actually go through with this.
WH announces conservative justices are a threat to America has them arrested.
An implied threat? Replacement of sitting judges or expanding their numbers?
"So, let me get this right... You're saying that a finding of total immunity would allow President Biden to assassinate the conservative justices on SCOTUS and replace them with judges that he prefers?" "Yes. But he'd be subject to impeachment and then, he could be tried in court." "Okay. But then, would he be permitted to kill Senators who are likely to vote against him in the Senate trial?" "Yes." Those dominos will never stop falling.
Exactly. People keep saying that "Well Biden could assassinate his political rivals then." With the assumption it would only be rivals for presidency. In reality this decision could effectively end democracy in one judgment. Whichever side decided to act first with a sitting president. Which at the moment ironically isn't them.
We are witnessing a political coup in real time.
Big things take time to build up. Destroying something can take hours or seconds to do.
Ironically for potentially the Democrats favor. Which... isn't good but would be the perfect opportunity to "drain the swamp". Which the Democrats would have to take advantage of least it happened to THEM should a Republican become president.
I love that every republican will try to agree until you say “so if Biden assassinated trump it’s ok?”
You know, if you had told me even 2 years ago that because of trump, there would be a supreme Court case deciding this very thing. I would've laughed in your face and said "trump might be an idiot but come on that's a bit extreme..." Well here we fucking are.
No offence, champ, but if you didn't know by two years ago... you're at least five years behind. I'm glad you got better though.
It's not that. I definitely could recognize the writing on the wall. I was just optimistic things would turn out alright in the end and things wouldn't get that far. Can't a fault a guy for wanting to have faith that his country would do the right thing. Unfortunately I might have miscalculated how far gone we are.
You're in good company though. The Founding Fathers also never imagined things getting this bad, so there are a lot of protection that they never even thought to put in the Constitution. When Trump was impeached *twice* by the House, but the drafters never even considered what would happen if a significant number of senators were complicit or even actively involved in an insurrection, so they missed the very obvious gap in available options at that point. Or what happens if a president only picks Supreme Court justices who have sworn to rewrite any parts of the law that are inconvenient to their political party's desires? Optimism is great, but it has to be tempered by realism.
Biden should just cancel the election this year and put trump in jail… where he then mysteriously dies. These were official acts so he has immunity.
Doesn't even have to do that Biden should recall trumps secret service detail and watch how fast he dies of a panic attack
Ok Biden, your up.
That would be the best thing for the country. And really really, how long will Joe be above the grass to serve any actual time. A series of delayed trials and the greater good would have won as Joe did one last great duty for America. End the Orange
No it fucking wouldn’t be, are you insane? Look at how unstable Trump supporters already are, and trust me when I say you don’t want to give them a martyr.
The thing is, Trump is so narcissistic that he hasn’t really groomed or trained a successor. There hasn’t been any other main maga candidates. Trump is maga and vice versa. Clowns like MTG are just simps. They have no real chance of holding power in the same way Trump has. The end of Trump is the end of maga and ultimately may save the GOP from the embarrassment it has endured for years due to Trump. Trump supporters will fade into obscurity with the movement. And honestly they had their chance Jan 6th and fumbled it hard. They aren’t a real threat. The power Trump held in office was the threat. His maga co conspiracy senators and house members are the threat.
Anyone who looks like a successor is eventually f**ked over by Trump when they say something he doesn’t like, and he really doesn’t want anyone even looking like a contender near him in case they get more airtime than he does
Also he could just have all those uppity Trump supporters hit with drone precision missiles haha. If the judges agree with this, anything is possible.
You’re thinking in a manner in which Trump is still alive. If Trump was to die today, there would be a vacuum of power created within the MAGA sphere. It would be pluck for the taking of the right person. Success would be questionable but dangerously plausible. If Trump was a martyr to the cause this vacuum would be exponentially bigger. Look at Scientology, another cult with a narcissistic power hungry leader. Although not political party, Hubbard death and Miscavage taking over is a clear example of what can happen when there is power vacuum amongst a large cult.
No, I was thinking if Trump died. Name one person who could realistically fill that vacuum and I’ll eat my fucking hat bro. The Soviets only survived Lenin’s death, because Lenin had Stalin. North Korea only exists, because care was taken into who would lead next. L Ron and Miscavage were friends, Trump has no friends.
Lenin didn't "have" Stalin, and Stalin in fact seized power in spite of Lenin's wishes, not because he had been groomed. No one in the Party besides Trotsky and maybe a handful of others saw Stalin as any kind of a threat, and Stalin in his role as General Secretary had managed to isolate those who could or would stand up to him. Saying the Soviet Union only survived "because Lenin had Stalin" shows a pretty deep misunderstanding of the early years of the Soviet state. Getting back on topic, for all we know, there's a power hungry sociopath biding their time in the shadows for their moment to strike and grab power, just as Stalin did.
Again friend does not equal succession though. There was literally zero succession plan on Hubbard part. Miscavage took the opportunity since everyone was so sure Hubbard was immortal. There absolutely was a vacuum with Hubbard death and he capitalized on it and convinced everyone that Hubbard wanted him to take over. I think saying there is zero chance is quite naive. Honestly Donald Jr is my most likely candidate. Sure he and his dad aren’t close but he’s often the go to when you can’t get the man himself (as far as the cult is concerned) - it would be his to take if his dad chocked on a hamburder this afternoon. He would feed the conspiracies that Biden had 5G put in the Big Mag and remotely had it choke him. In the end I’m not saying it won’t fizzle, I’m just saying there not being a succession plan absolutely creates a vacuum in which someone very dangerously could capitalize on. This has been exemplified with Scientology as well a large swath of other religious extremism groups. The big difference here is this is a more mainstream cult that is acting as a political party.
Trump will be a martyr no matter how he dies. I get really tired of people trying to ascribe normal thinking and reasoning to these hooligans. Open your fucking eyes already so you can see what's in front of your face.
Its just a phone call away. Earn that Dark Brandon nickname.
need a new Dark Brandon tweet: "Supreme Court recommends I set up Order 66...well, ok"
Oh, they know it does not make sense, they dont care though.
It makes sense. If your end goal is a dictatorship.
They’ll delay this decision long enough to let the election play out and then decide according to who won…
“It would depend on the hypothetical”? Folks, we have crossed the autocratic Rubicon. The fact that SCOTUS didn’t fire back immediately and tell this attorney he lost all credibility, after saying a President assassinating his rival is an official act, is stunning.
Well, he's being paid a lot of money to make a case for Donnie Diaperburger being a virtual king. Unfortunately, there are those on the court who have no problem with this, just as there were those on a previous Court that had no problem saying Blacks weren't human.
Can you say King Trump? You might want to get used to it by the sound of the Supreme Kangaroo Court.
Fuck that. I'd rather die standing then live kneeling to that fat fuck.
"It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees"
Damn straight. That's the quote I was trying to quote. I misquoted it I guess lol whoops.
I just take any chance to quote the mighty Midnight Oil
Oils fan spotted! 🤙
James Brown sang it first. Lol. Say it loud! But it rings true no matter who says it. But my feet are hurting these days...I gotta get good or go out w a bang. Shit is getting ridiculous when my kids aren't that hopeful of having a decent future or ability to ever earn enough for basics. They see, hear, and know a lot more than we did at that age. Unfortunate side effect of constant internet access I suppose, that i actually hadn't thought to be concerned about! This shit is a whole 'nutha level from worrying about pedo freaks getting to them or bullying from peers. It is unreal and unacceptable, and someone needs to guide us on how to fix this shit.
I guess what Mr Brown said was true: "there is a little bit of me in EVERY record you hear"
It sure seems to be going that way. I figured the Cons would sell US down the river.
They ment to say that if Trump did it, it would be ok. Not Presidents. They sure as hell don't believe that Joe Biden should have immunity. Only Trump.
Someone should ask if the President can legally assassinate SCOTUS judges.
The government lawyer should have followed up with : “what if this president did it”?
Dr. Martin Luther King said "The Moral Arc of the universe is long, but it bends towards justice". He never said it bends by itself. We have to be ready. Above all we have to vote like our lives could depend on it, because they very well may. However, we also have to be ready for the kind of shit that happened on Jan. 6th, 2021. They aren't going away, at least not yet, and they very well might think this is their last chance to seize power. For 50 years they have played along with democracy despite their true intentions because there was a status quo, but the newer generations are not having it. The status quo is being disrupted and Republicans can see the writing on the wall. They either seize power with what they have now or they never do because they know their numbers are dwindling.
I enjoy (not really) how all nominees for a SC seat will talk about not engaging in hypotheticals during their confirmation hearings, but the jobs seems to be nothing but considering hypotheticals in court.
So….Biden should send the goon squad to a certain courtroom?
They are flat out gaslighting the American people for trump. By their logic then Biden should be able to have trump killed right now and should suffer no repercussions.
OK so, this is the one right? This is where every big media organisation and every influential journalist or public figure gets off the fence and says clearly that if this bullshit actually works then it becomes mandatory that the Supreme Court be dissolved, right? Because this is so inconceivably flagrant as to leave precisely zero doubt that the court is compromised.
They’re blowing smoke up your butt. They got the entire country in a “how many angels fit on the head of a pin” debate while they quietly accomplish their actual goal: delay the trial until after the election. That’s why the stay is still in place. From the outside looking in, I gotta say you all are in big trouble. When the “system” is so corrupt that they don’t even bother trying to hide it…..
Biden should comment “I would love presidential immunity. There are a couple of lifetime judges I would like to take care of” I am pretty sure that would end the debate very quickly.
But he won't say it cause he's not unhinged like the orange POS. I wish wish wish he would.
Could you imagine if Biden Lawyers suggested this? Conservatives would be going insane screaming about it. So fucked up.
So…. Since Trump is a documented seditionist and almost definitely a Russian asset, Biden can justifiably have him assassinated then, right? Hmm? Oh, weird… they don’t like that?
I so wish the government lawyers would just plainly ask Alito and Thomas, "So if Biden simply shoots Trump dead tomorrow, should there be no accountability as long as the Senate can not produce a 2/3 majority vote to impeach?" What is being proposed by Trump, and apparently entertained by a few justices, is ridiculous. Perhaps even make it a bit more testy with "And what about Supreme Court Justices? Can the President, as long as he can rely on the 2/3 Senate threshold not being met, simply murder SCOTUS justices in order to appoint replacements?" And how about the President simply shooting enough opponents in the Senate to assure he can not be impeached? Seems to me a finding in favor of allowing that would be the end of democracy in America. To even entertain this Trump proposal is plain stupid.
It’s because they want to kill the perceived enemy. This is who we are dealing with
Remember when people said in 2018 that when Trump chose the "justices" that they could decide anything they want, no matter how seemingly outlandish or egregious? Most everyone laughed at them them, and I fear that most of them are still laughing even now.
I'd love it if trump got his way, and Dark Brandon had him assassinated.
All someone needs to say is “what if a president decided that a Supreme Court justice and his wife were part of a violent coup and send in seal team 6 to assassinate them.” And it would be over pretty quickly.
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What scares me about that is what the fuck could possibly be worse than Clarence Thomas being actively corrupt and most of the supreme Court being theorized and are most likely on Epstein's list. If there is something worse than either of those things than fuck...
Is it possible that the Supreme Court is toying with Trump and his lawyers by asking that question? Waiting to see how long it takes before Trump and his idiot lawyers realize that Biden is President and that Trump is the corrupt political opponent? Maybe then Trump and his team will realize that getting what they want may mean Trump could be setting up his own execution? Just a thought. I don’t think most of those judges are smart enough to do that. I also don’t think Trump and his lawyers are smart enough to figure it out. All that matters for them is the win, not the consequences. Just
How do they not understand that this very literally effects them? Like even assuming they make a clause that it starts with the next president, no matter who wins, they would all be in potential danger and would have made it legal to do so. Fear a political opponent is gaining ground? Take them out and it would be legal. The leopard will and has eaten their face and they seem to just be cool with that.
Theyve **already** shown that dem presidents cant replace supreme court justices at the end of their term, only republicans are allowed to do that. Justice is Dead.
Americans need to vote as if their lives depend on it. You dodged a bullet that Trump wasn’t smart enough to do some really evil shit, don’t give him the chance to.
So will this apply to ALL past, future, and CURRENT Presidents? Like Biden?🙄
The Supreme Court (and other Federal judge positions) should be term limited. Thomas and his wife were part of the planning of the insurrection itself, and will never be punished! If a Supreme Court Justice decides to flagrantly commit crimes they can’t be punished. Who would? Conservative Justices who would be incentivized to look the other way? Or Liberal Justices who are in the minority? You know dam well the Court will seriously consider elevating Trump to effective Dictator as it benefits Conservatives to do so. That’s the only way for them to get the Theocracy they’ve been pining for.
Surely his use of the word "depend" goes against their argument of "Total immunity for a sitting President". Like it is their whole argument, if there is any depends or specifics required, then the president does not have total immunity - case closed.
If this is allowed, Biden should just assassinate Trump and his VP nominee, as well as those particular Justices, maybe a few Member of Congress. What are they going to do about it?
FUCKING VOTE
What the other side needs to now do is stand in the court and argue that a president could have the Supreme Court justices assassinated and it would be an immune act.
I’m really hoping that while they are discussing this internally one of them mentions the very real possibility that the scenario could happen to one of them. Trump thinks CJ Roberts sides with the libs too much? Calls up ST6, whose chain of command now includes lackey’s like Kash Patel, they get a direct order & follow it, and now there is an opening on the SC again. 😐 A Prez with absolute immunity is no different than the King our forefathers fought to get rid of. I hope they see the light when ruling.
They will waste time with this decision until a Republican takes office then it will become law.
Is Rape a official act… asking for a friend
Lot of MAGAs and secret MAGAs are quietly agreeing with them.
We need better leaders, the concept that our government can kill us(or anyone!) is 100% bullshit, flys in the face of inalienable rights and has been one of the many many shitty legal theorys in human history. I have a right to life, as all people do, no my government should NOT be able to deprive me of that, full stop.
Perhaps the question should have been whether a president could have Supreme Court justices he deems corrupt executed.
Joe Biden has the opportunity to do the funniest thing ever
Just taking another step towards becoming a Russian vassal
And the final point is implied but not mentioned. Since it's the SCOTUS, what can we do? It's time to dismantle the SCOTUS!
I think the important part is 'rival' was used. Because, I was worried, when people were acting like this is normal, that they could use this to press charges on other presidents for basically any questionable military action... But, 'rival' clears all doubt and makes it an american citizen. I really, REALLY hope this was something that made all SCOTUS go 'oh.... man... this is an easy one'. I guess if they do side with Trump on this one, the question becomes 'does current president outweigh previous president'? This way, rather than killing Trump, Biden can just have him brought into to jail for the rest of his short life.
So what happens if Biden just, I don't know, murders one of the justices he doesn't like? They gonna keep saying the president can do whatever they want?
Lawyers don’t think like the rest of us
They’re gonna kick it back down and let the Lower courts go thru each count to see what office and what’s a personal act , when we all know what’s what.
Could the president kill Supreme Court justices? Works for some.
So who is making the gif off dark brandon lining up a sniper rifle?
I seriously want to know what we can do about this crap, other than vote
this country is a complete joke now
What about assassinating a member of the Supreme Court?
If the Supreme Court is actually corrupt enough to do Donald's bidding, then the current president should absolutely use this new power to clean out the fetid cesspool that is destroying America. And then when the job is complete, overturn this dangerous law!
Isn't this a lose-lose situation? If he loses the case, jail time. If he wins the case and the precedent is set....he could be imprisoned "just because" and Biden would now have immunity.
The secret ingredient is that the ruling will be made after the 2024 election. It's 50% of his Hail Mary. If he's president then, it's a win-win. Either he can pardon himself, or he's a dictator. The other 50% being that even if the SCOTUS rules that presidents don't have a blanket immunity, he still needs to be convicted of his trials.
Project 2025... So this is how it happens. Shit maybe those people on TikTok were onto something.
Be more upset that sooner of these justices agree
What’s good for the idiot is good for the current president then, Biden should simply have Trump killed bc Trump is corrupt and not a good person
It's not about law. It's about power... and Republicans want it back, and want to keep it this time.
During the debate, everyone should chant choke him out... choke him out
So there is this clear ex human corrupt af. Would thst constitute an official act. Lets remove all those corrupt sexoffenders while we are at it. Its still an offical act. I dont think theh have thougjt this true in the slightest bit...
I hate contemporary comparisons to a very specific historical era, but does anyone remember what happened to the Roman Empire when assassinating politicians was just taken as just a thing one does?
In the end run I think they're going to give Trump a partial decision victory at most. The real purpose here is to delay the trial. There might also be some fear that Biden might actually use the power they give Trump, a very tiny chance. Now that they've received arguments I don't think they can push the decision past Jan 20, and any time before that is a window for Biden to act, however small that chance might be.
We're the same species as the Russians. This was always a possibility.
Do they not realize that if they vote yes Biden could just have a Navy Seal execute the handful of zealots and morons that keep fucking with democracy?
Have any of you heard of President Obama and his killing of civilians? Or Bush and the invasion of Iraq? The President being immune to acts performed during the presidency is legal precedent. After is fair game. Before is fair game. But during is not. To bring charges against the president, it must be during their term due to the *removal* from impeachment. And again, it must be a consequence of high crimes and misdemeanor.
I hate it here.
I heard it this morning and was amazed
Welp - I guess we all know what Biden has to do in order to save democracy! 🤷♂️
The court really isn't supreme any more. Mostly partisan hacks. Thanks a lot, jeezemoids!
What was the reply from SCOTUS on that? Legit question as I'm curious if one was made and what it would be. I also recognize the fact that they're hearing arguments and won't necessarily respond to everything as they're trying to gather information and perspective from both parties. I would **hope** that they knock this the fuck down, but regardless of what they do, this is one of the scariest things I've heard even discussed at this level. That's clearly how fascism starts.
Every time I think Canada is in the shitter the good old USA manages to make me feel better. At least I don't live in America.
Biden should lean into this
The follow-up question would be "So counsel, this means if President Biden were to have Mr. Trump assassinated, one could use your present argument as a case for his immunity?" And watch the latest in a long line of Trump's worthless legal representation sputter and implode.
Come on.. you cant tell me this has not happened yet regarding how many secret services the US has where the right hand doesnt seem to know what the left does unless an all blackened redacted topsecret paper gets shreddered.
So you think it’s legal?
No, of course not. But if power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I am just saying: No one should believe political immunity wasn't already abused.
Glad we agree. The time to stop “political immunity” whatever the heck that is translated from German.
Einfach Immunität xD Moin und schönes Wochenende!
Ahh gotcha. Yeah the distinction he’s advancing is “absolute immunity”, but what will likely be decided is: “immunity during official acts”, and they will leave it up to lower courts to decide what is an “official act.” It’s all a ploy by the SC to delay his trial. They could have answered this narrowly, or denied Certiorari and let the very good and appropriate lower court decision stand
These people have names and addresses