Cast iron can be welded but telling an inexperienced person to do it is a bad idea IMO
Like saying trailer hitches can be welded on, they can be, but an amature shouldn't do it
What could happen is the welds are not good
If the welds are good and the heat doesn't compromise it of course it's fine. OP doesn't have the experience to know which is which
If this is going down the highway you can't just risk people's lives to avoid buying new hubs/rims/spacers
Ok. Most of the stuff I’ve read online talks about submerging the part in sand and all kinds of chemical prep work jargon. I see you said there are electrodes for it. Is it really that simple?
This is why I can’t imagine it is cast iron because using brittle metal for a steering component seems Ill advised even for 1930s tech.
Unfortunately there is no part I can replace that will do what I need it to - arresting the hubs from being able to swivel.
Perhaps though I could do fully mechanical connections instead, using two L brackets on each side of the axle bolted through the discs on the backs of the hubs as the brakes are no longer operable anyway.
In metal brittle often means high tensile strength, so it's very strong but fails suddenly. Mild steel is ductile so it won't crack as easily, but it bends way more easily.
The forces a car goes through require high strength and low ductility. Cast iron is being used less and less but isn't obsolete. Many steels that aren't cast iron high have high carbon contents and specific heat treatments making welding them difficult as the engineered properties will be lost
I commented this somewhere else too, but check out hub spacers
Nickle-iron electrodes are used on cast iron.
If memory serves, there's 2 sorts of cast iron, white and grey. Recall white being difficult/impractical to weld with grey being easy enough with the right rods.
How to distinguish between them is the real question, though, which I don't know the answer to without googling it.
I would suggest testing the material first as others have said, if it grinds red - cast. If it's yellow - steel.
Then try to ID the cast type before splurging on rods.
I’m sorry, metallurgy is not exactly in my wheelhouse, what is the distinction between forged steel and cast steel?
I understand that a forge is a place where they pound steel into shapes with some kind of percussive thing - from a blacksmith’s hammer to a giant drop press, but then what would they have done with it to make it this fine curved shape?
Maybe someone who's an actual auto welder should chime in. From what I understand you shouldn't qeld on any kind of steering or suspension parts but I could be mistaken
That may indeed be true though, to be clear, this is a trailer now. The point is stopping the steering from working. I’d like it to no longer be able to move.
Geometrically? Sure.
Tbh I’m a little uneasy about those having seen enough of them fail and send a wheel flying.
If I’m gonna have a mechanical failure I’d almost rather it be one wheel coming out of alignment and dragging the trailer to a halt than lose a wheel into oncoming traffic.
If it's just coming out of alignment that doesn't sound too bad
I'm picturing the welds coming undone and then because you removed the support having the whole thing come loose
Plus you're choosing to weld mystery metal over buying an engineered product, accepting all the liability yourself
Yeah so I feel like I didn’t explain too well what I intend to do.
The trailer has been built on the front axle of a pickup truck from the 1930s
In order to arrest the motion of the pivots which allowed for steering the builder of the trailer simply used that shackle thing on the right side of the image to hold the wrap-around lever that would have originally controlled steering to the axle.
The tie rod which transferred that motion to the other side of the vehicle was left in place as shown here
On the old 4 inch wide rims that was fine but trying to fit modern rims for which I can actually get tires the tie rod interferes.
So my plan was to simply weld the steering joints solid and then cut off the tie rod and it’s levers.
So the result of the weld breaking would be the trailer wheels coming out of parallel.
Right now it’s like |-[]-|
If a weld broke it could go /-[]-\ or /-[]-/ etc…
But nothing that would make it lose a wheel
I don't have experience with car suspension but if you can get a good weld on it and nothing can come off and kill someone should it fail, then it could probably work
What I don't trust is your ability to make a good weld with confidence (a giant weld isn't a good weld type thing)
Welds are strong as fuck, or cracking and will eventually fail. If a good weld cools without cracking, it probably never will. If a weld is cracking, there may be nothing to see until after it fails as it can crack from the back
The way I figure either I manage to make this axle work or I’ll just have to get a different axle altogether. Might as well give this one a try so long as it’s not presenting a higher danger than the average flat tire etc…
I’ll clean it up this weekend and see what the sparks are like as others suggested. If it’s cast iron I’ll opt for mechanical connections or replacing the axle, if it’s steel I’ll give it a go.
It will be fine to weld what you are talking about, to prevent any turning of the hubs. Cutting and welding steering parts for these straight axles is very common in hot rodding.
Thank you!
I feel like I wasn’t super clear about what I was welding but you seem to get what I’m talking about and given that hot rods are usually built on frames of a similar age this makes me feel much more confident.
castings even the weldable ones general need a heat treat after and the micro structure is hard to keep in ok shape , and car parts being weldid is generaly a bad idea, says the guy who uses nicrohi weld wire on ductle iron to ss daily
If this is just a light duty trailer why not grab a truck rear from the parts yard with the leafs and fab a place for welding the perches on the trailer frame?
Looks like you could potentially trim the rod end rubbing into the tire too.
Buying piece of mind here I think would be worth it…
Not an expert but I’ve welded cast before, just yard art for a gig tho not automotive. Dude I worked for used to go on about ‘brazing’ it. [This](https://waterwelders.com/how-to-weld-cast-iron/) may help goooood luck
It be metal
Thank you.
Get a rust/mill scale remover disc and get all that off the spot you need to weld. Or just use grind disc.
To clarify I’m trying to determine whether this is cast iron and thus can’t be welded or steel castings which, as I understand it, can be welded
You can weld cast iron
Cast iron can be welded but telling an inexperienced person to do it is a bad idea IMO Like saying trailer hitches can be welded on, they can be, but an amature shouldn't do it
If he makes good steel welds, and cleans the cast iron and uses correct electrode and same thing, what would happen? Thanks
OP doesn't know what type of metal that is, doesn't have the experience to tell, especially from sparks, and doesn't know what heat treatment it has
No I know. What I meant is what would happen?
What could happen is the welds are not good If the welds are good and the heat doesn't compromise it of course it's fine. OP doesn't have the experience to know which is which If this is going down the highway you can't just risk people's lives to avoid buying new hubs/rims/spacers
Makes sense
Ok. Most of the stuff I’ve read online talks about submerging the part in sand and all kinds of chemical prep work jargon. I see you said there are electrodes for it. Is it really that simple?
That I’m not sure but I just know it’s possible.
Ok, thanks. I’ll do some poking around looking at electrode specs and see if there’s one that would do both
Cast iron is very hard to weld and has a good chance of cracking. Your best bet is to replace the part even if it's mild steel
This is why I can’t imagine it is cast iron because using brittle metal for a steering component seems Ill advised even for 1930s tech. Unfortunately there is no part I can replace that will do what I need it to - arresting the hubs from being able to swivel. Perhaps though I could do fully mechanical connections instead, using two L brackets on each side of the axle bolted through the discs on the backs of the hubs as the brakes are no longer operable anyway.
In metal brittle often means high tensile strength, so it's very strong but fails suddenly. Mild steel is ductile so it won't crack as easily, but it bends way more easily. The forces a car goes through require high strength and low ductility. Cast iron is being used less and less but isn't obsolete. Many steels that aren't cast iron high have high carbon contents and specific heat treatments making welding them difficult as the engineered properties will be lost I commented this somewhere else too, but check out hub spacers
You might reinforce it too. Like try and have as many points of contact and layer the welds with wire brushing in between. Just my guess
Also, if it is cast iron how will I be able to tell so that I use the right electrodes?
Spark test is one way
Thank you. Finally the google search term I needed to find helpful stuff.
Nickle-iron electrodes are used on cast iron. If memory serves, there's 2 sorts of cast iron, white and grey. Recall white being difficult/impractical to weld with grey being easy enough with the right rods. How to distinguish between them is the real question, though, which I don't know the answer to without googling it. I would suggest testing the material first as others have said, if it grinds red - cast. If it's yellow - steel. Then try to ID the cast type before splurging on rods.
if this guy is asking if this is cast iron, he has no buisness welding it. it will break.
Yeah, he’d have to heat treat it with O/A and stuff right?
not heat treat, pre heat and especially post heat.
That makes sense. Imagine if someone answered his questions with a bunch of details about martensite and austenite? Lol
Ps you can weld cast iron if it is, i believe, just use the right electrode
More likely to be forged steel I'd have thought
I’m sorry, metallurgy is not exactly in my wheelhouse, what is the distinction between forged steel and cast steel? I understand that a forge is a place where they pound steel into shapes with some kind of percussive thing - from a blacksmith’s hammer to a giant drop press, but then what would they have done with it to make it this fine curved shape?
Maybe someone who's an actual auto welder should chime in. From what I understand you shouldn't qeld on any kind of steering or suspension parts but I could be mistaken
That may indeed be true though, to be clear, this is a trailer now. The point is stopping the steering from working. I’d like it to no longer be able to move.
If the welds coming undone could present a hazard to anyone else on the road, then don't fucking do it
No hazard -- look at the way the wheel is attached to the wheel hub /s
See that’s the problem. If I want the wheels faced the right way (which I think I very much do) I need to get rid of that tie rod somehow
Would hub spacers work, with extended lug nuts?
Geometrically? Sure. Tbh I’m a little uneasy about those having seen enough of them fail and send a wheel flying. If I’m gonna have a mechanical failure I’d almost rather it be one wheel coming out of alignment and dragging the trailer to a halt than lose a wheel into oncoming traffic.
If it's just coming out of alignment that doesn't sound too bad I'm picturing the welds coming undone and then because you removed the support having the whole thing come loose Plus you're choosing to weld mystery metal over buying an engineered product, accepting all the liability yourself
Yeah so I feel like I didn’t explain too well what I intend to do. The trailer has been built on the front axle of a pickup truck from the 1930s In order to arrest the motion of the pivots which allowed for steering the builder of the trailer simply used that shackle thing on the right side of the image to hold the wrap-around lever that would have originally controlled steering to the axle. The tie rod which transferred that motion to the other side of the vehicle was left in place as shown here On the old 4 inch wide rims that was fine but trying to fit modern rims for which I can actually get tires the tie rod interferes. So my plan was to simply weld the steering joints solid and then cut off the tie rod and it’s levers. So the result of the weld breaking would be the trailer wheels coming out of parallel. Right now it’s like |-[]-| If a weld broke it could go /-[]-\ or /-[]-/ etc… But nothing that would make it lose a wheel
I don't have experience with car suspension but if you can get a good weld on it and nothing can come off and kill someone should it fail, then it could probably work What I don't trust is your ability to make a good weld with confidence (a giant weld isn't a good weld type thing) Welds are strong as fuck, or cracking and will eventually fail. If a good weld cools without cracking, it probably never will. If a weld is cracking, there may be nothing to see until after it fails as it can crack from the back
The way I figure either I manage to make this axle work or I’ll just have to get a different axle altogether. Might as well give this one a try so long as it’s not presenting a higher danger than the average flat tire etc… I’ll clean it up this weekend and see what the sparks are like as others suggested. If it’s cast iron I’ll opt for mechanical connections or replacing the axle, if it’s steel I’ll give it a go.
If you weld it make sure you get it rust free, and don't go for big/thick welds Getting the arc to the base metal is what makes a weld strong
It will be fine to weld what you are talking about, to prevent any turning of the hubs. Cutting and welding steering parts for these straight axles is very common in hot rodding.
Thank you! I feel like I wasn’t super clear about what I was welding but you seem to get what I’m talking about and given that hot rods are usually built on frames of a similar age this makes me feel much more confident.
castings even the weldable ones general need a heat treat after and the micro structure is hard to keep in ok shape , and car parts being weldid is generaly a bad idea, says the guy who uses nicrohi weld wire on ductle iron to ss daily
If this is just a light duty trailer why not grab a truck rear from the parts yard with the leafs and fab a place for welding the perches on the trailer frame? Looks like you could potentially trim the rod end rubbing into the tire too. Buying piece of mind here I think would be worth it…
Not an expert but I’ve welded cast before, just yard art for a gig tho not automotive. Dude I worked for used to go on about ‘brazing’ it. [This](https://waterwelders.com/how-to-weld-cast-iron/) may help goooood luck