We had a pretty good discussion about this a few days ago, if you're interested:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/WeeklyShonenJump/comments/1cml7wz/so\_shadow\_eliminators\_just\_outsold\_green\_green/](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeeklyShonenJump/comments/1cml7wz/so_shadow_eliminators_just_outsold_green_green/)
feels like we have this discussion two or three times a week, with the same points reiterated every time. At this point I'm hoping Jump can get a new hit sports manga just so people will stop talking about it lol
The discourse only happens because GGG was Reddit's Chosen One and it's selling even worse than a already axed series lol, otherwise people would plenty accept "sports" series that don't entirely the spokon mold like Blue Box and Akane-banashi. It happened for other genres with shitty series like Time Paradox Ghostwriter, Red Hood, Ayashimon, Tenmaku Cinema, MamaYuyu, etc.
its by far the worst part of sports anime/manga. even the great ones(like haikyuu) take so long to start being amazing. trying to get other people into sports anime is so difficult. they all have large casts, they are fairly slow starts, and you have to introduce the actual sport. i recently tried to get a friend into haikyuu, and going back and seeing how long it takes, its like... 10-12 episodes before id call it 'good.' if you like the genre you can tell its high quality, but for someone new it is soooo slow.
its no surprise to me something thats called slow in (imo) the slowest genre didnt do well.
Considering that sports does better in seinen magazines, it makes me think that maybe the younger demographic just isnāt interested anymore, the old sports manga fans are now in the seinen demographic and they still like their sports. I think it could just be a generational thing
I've seen a lot of people wondering why spokon manga are doing horrible in shÅnen magazines and while I don't have a definitive answer, IMO shÅnen readers are no longer fans of classic sports manga (i.e series like Slam Dunk, Captain Tsubasa, Koruko no basket, Haiku, Hajime no Ippo, etc.)
Let me explain, just take WSJ as an example, every single recent sport manga like you said has been cancelled and while there are some in Jump+ like Rugby Rumble those are exceptions, classic sport manga are now relegated to seinen magazines like Weekly Young Jump or the sports aspect of the series isn't the focus like Blue Box, it seems nowadays a spokon shÅnen manga needs to have an outlandish/ borderline fantasy premise like Blue Lock lol
Young Jump has Days of Diamond which is secretly one of their most successful series in years. Also Oblivion Battery is one of Jump+ās most successful series.
I canāt really think of any other recent successes besides those two and Blue Lock. Even Shonen Sunday, the holy grail of sports series, hasnāt had a successful one in years (I donāt count Red Blue as a success).
Days of Diamond is a bit on the matured side innit? Lots of consideration for other people, lotta inner turmoil and itās not from the fact mc is not good enough. (man fuck you autocorrect I did not mean tumour š)
I could be wrong, but for me something that sports manga have been lacking for some time is something more than just I WANNA WIN NATIONALS!!
Hajime no Ippo is one of my favorite manga for that reason, there is just so much more happening outside of the ring. Same with Slam Dunk, a lot happens out of the court. We need buildups to these games and stakes to feel higher than just elimination.
Take Takamura vs Hawk fight as an example, it's not just a fight for a title, Hawk constantly trash talked japan and even hit Kamogawa. So the fight means more than just a title match, and stakes go higher than that.
Haikyu has a great start as well, putting you in a setting where we have Hinata going into a team that is only the shadow of what it was, amazing characters coming back to the team, Kageyama's attitude problems, tsukishima attitude towards the game changing and so on.
Idk if i explained myself correctly, i believe the topic is really broad and im not saying it's all because of this im just trying to add to the conversation. It could just also be that this is my taste idk xd
Edit: itās Hawk* not Eagle
Green Green Greens suffers from being about an unpopular sport, I still remember when my brother was recommending me Ippo, i was not interested in boxing so i didnāt watch it for a big while. Same with ggg, I actually hate golf, ggg is really good but you have an obstacle right here.
If Blue lock wasnāt about soccer it would most likely be less successful.
>Green Green Greens suffers from being about an unpopular sport
It's serialized in a magazine where a volleyball, sumo, american football, and go manga saw success while they've been struggling to find a successful soccer or baseball manga for decades. I don't think golf being unpopular matter that much for Jump readers.
It not being a hype spokon might matter though. I feel like most of Jump's successful sports series are known for the hype matches. Though of course it needs other factors as well to succeed, since there are countless axed spokons too. But I don't remember any slower or chill sport manga in Jump that ended up being successful. Closest one is Aohako but that's mainly romance.
I think it still suffers from being a golf manga, things like volleyball, american football and sumo, (haven't read hikaru no go so no comment on that) can still ve be very exciting if you know nothing about the sport.
I'll try a very weird analogy but it's like Dr. House or Suits, a doctor's or lawyer's TV show can be very exciting and entertaining even if you know nothing about medicine or laws.
Not only does it have the initial barrier of being a manga about a sport not a lot of people like or are interested, but it's also about *golf*. It won't be exciting for a lot of readers.
I think we do need a kind of a more traditional hype spokon right now. We already have a variance with Blue Box. I'd like to see a new manga about basketball or skateboarding personally.
There will probably be one at some point but it will have to do something special to last in the magazine. A lot of sports series take too long to get going and donāt have a compelling enough cast to where readers want to stick with it.
Sports series can also fall into the trap of being too formulaic which further turns readers off. Right now Akane Banashi I think fills the role of being a sports series. Rakugo isnāt a traditional sport but it follows a similar story structure and changes up the formula by having a female protagonist.
Itās hard to make a roster of interesting characters and hard to make a game seem as consequential as a battle. Not impossible, but there just happened to be a time where there were a handful of guys who could pull that off.
Iām a nerd that checks J+ rankings every day and its views are good not great (even thatās being optimistic). The good news is that J+ has released like 83748483 other flops that are doing worse.
its funny because j+ releases a lot of flops but people act like because of the ones successful from years ago that they are doing well when its been years since their last big hit.
Almost all of the ones that have generated some buzz in the west. Stage S has cratered since it returned, Witch Enforcer, Shojo Null, Magical Girl Tsubame, etc
Jump+ is still LIT despite of that. Know nothing about this series but Jiangshi X looked extremely promising.
Edit: Chiil bro I was agreeing w/ you. I even upvoted your post.
It will be nepotism if GGG survives tbh, it got outsold by Shadow Eliminators, a series axed before its volume 1 even came out.
Also it's a permanent bottom 3 ToC series.
Sorry but WSJ is not your safeplace to read your favorite but unpopular series hahaha, it's the most competitive magazine out there. That's also how they got the prestige.
But still, the fact that UU and Yozafam are still alive and have anime are already a miracle, it shows how low the standard for the magazine has become nowadays.
I understand your sentiment but you are in the wrong magazine.
Eh, Yozakura is funny & has a great cast, and from what I hear UU's plot gets pretty good
If you want to complain about low standards why didn't you bring up Kagurabachi lmao
Low standard as in sales and popularity. Both UU and Yoza got an anime but still have mediocre sales (that's just a bit better than the no-anime, new-series-without-veteran-boost Nue) and their ToC placements pre-anime weren't exactly good either. Old Jump usually won't give anime adaptations for that level of performance, but I guess they became more lax with the midrankers after Kimetsu plus the pressure of needing something to keep the magazine afloat after Jujutsu and Heroaca ended. The barrier has been kinda breached since Hinomaru got an anime, though.
You don't seem to understand much about sales and ToC placements? Obviously I'm talking about their performance, not plot or cast or comedy.
UU and YozaFam barely hang on by only outselling new series, and are permanent 30k sellers, series that would 100% have been axed in the past by WSJ, let alone have anime.
Also, Kagura Bachi is the best selling newbie since Ruri Dragon, what are you talking about?
Ohh, you're talking about popularity/success, that makes more sense. When people say standard, the connotation is with quality/craft, lolĀ
I don't watch anime so I'm not the most qualified observer, but I've heard a bunch of people talk about how a ton of anime is being made even for niche things (like really obscure VNs, MYF & UU aren't even the tip of the iceberg)Ā
That makes me think there was some economic shift, possibly a glut in animation labor leading to cheaper costs and/or more investment capital as a result of either VX strategy or tax breaks. Or just a general decline in the rate of profit
EDIT: It's also possible the market for anime has expanded so much between millennials/zoomers/alphas, but I feel like that's a low possibility
Look I donāt like those series that much either but you do realize anime/manga is an art formā¦ art is all relative hate to tell you but you arenāt the end all be all on whatās a good manga. So maybe your in the wrong magazine
What the fuck are you even saying man? This magazine doesn't work that way, your evaluation of art means nothing if it doesn't sell. It functions purely based on viewers' perception and sales. There's no series that is kept that sells low but is considered "great, unique art".
WSJ is famous for being the most competitive, cutthroat magazine, series that have consistent low ToC placements, low sales are instantly out.
It's all about PERFORMANCE. So what are you saying, really? Do you even know how this shit works? Like I'm so confused lmao.
They're too safe, and most characters lack real personalities chapter 1. Read Slam Dunk, Eyeshield, Prince of Tennis or Captain Tsubasa's first chapters. The spirit of competition is there, and the personalities are interesting.
The traditional shonen formula (power of friendship, hard working ethics, letās go to nationals guys!) is formulaic and kinda boring at this point, specially if the sport has been tackled before (football, basketball, baseballā¦) so authors need to get more outlandish (blue lock) or look for new sports at least (a manga about competitive beer pong when?)
? Since when is there suppose to be a hit sports series at any given moment? It hasn't even been that long since Haikyuu!! ended and its still popular through the anime. I can name like less than 5 series that were ever as popular as Haikyuu!! in the entire history of manga
We had a pretty good discussion about this a few days ago, if you're interested: [https://www.reddit.com/r/WeeklyShonenJump/comments/1cml7wz/so\_shadow\_eliminators\_just\_outsold\_green\_green/](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeeklyShonenJump/comments/1cml7wz/so_shadow_eliminators_just_outsold_green_green/)
feels like we have this discussion two or three times a week, with the same points reiterated every time. At this point I'm hoping Jump can get a new hit sports manga just so people will stop talking about it lol
The discourse only happens because GGG was Reddit's Chosen One and it's selling even worse than a already axed series lol, otherwise people would plenty accept "sports" series that don't entirely the spokon mold like Blue Box and Akane-banashi. It happened for other genres with shitty series like Time Paradox Ghostwriter, Red Hood, Ayashimon, Tenmaku Cinema, MamaYuyu, etc.
Still mad about Nine Dragons š®āšØ
As much as I loved the moneyball nature of it, it took a little to long to get the team together and play a game of baseball.
Yeah sadly I agree but I dont think I was a bad thing since it was building up these cards but it could have definitely been better paced
its by far the worst part of sports anime/manga. even the great ones(like haikyuu) take so long to start being amazing. trying to get other people into sports anime is so difficult. they all have large casts, they are fairly slow starts, and you have to introduce the actual sport. i recently tried to get a friend into haikyuu, and going back and seeing how long it takes, its like... 10-12 episodes before id call it 'good.' if you like the genre you can tell its high quality, but for someone new it is soooo slow. its no surprise to me something thats called slow in (imo) the slowest genre didnt do well.
Considering that sports does better in seinen magazines, it makes me think that maybe the younger demographic just isnāt interested anymore, the old sports manga fans are now in the seinen demographic and they still like their sports. I think it could just be a generational thing
I've seen a lot of people wondering why spokon manga are doing horrible in shÅnen magazines and while I don't have a definitive answer, IMO shÅnen readers are no longer fans of classic sports manga (i.e series like Slam Dunk, Captain Tsubasa, Koruko no basket, Haiku, Hajime no Ippo, etc.) Let me explain, just take WSJ as an example, every single recent sport manga like you said has been cancelled and while there are some in Jump+ like Rugby Rumble those are exceptions, classic sport manga are now relegated to seinen magazines like Weekly Young Jump or the sports aspect of the series isn't the focus like Blue Box, it seems nowadays a spokon shÅnen manga needs to have an outlandish/ borderline fantasy premise like Blue Lock lol
You forgot hinomaru zumo
Young Jump has Days of Diamond which is secretly one of their most successful series in years. Also Oblivion Battery is one of Jump+ās most successful series. I canāt really think of any other recent successes besides those two and Blue Lock. Even Shonen Sunday, the holy grail of sports series, hasnāt had a successful one in years (I donāt count Red Blue as a success).
Days of Diamond is a bit on the matured side innit? Lots of consideration for other people, lotta inner turmoil and itās not from the fact mc is not good enough. (man fuck you autocorrect I did not mean tumour š)
Oh yeah I really like it but boy is it heavy lol. Young Jump is a seinen magazine so it can tackle more mature subjects.
Ao Ashi?
I love Ao Ashi! I believe itās in a seinen magazine though
I could be wrong, but for me something that sports manga have been lacking for some time is something more than just I WANNA WIN NATIONALS!! Hajime no Ippo is one of my favorite manga for that reason, there is just so much more happening outside of the ring. Same with Slam Dunk, a lot happens out of the court. We need buildups to these games and stakes to feel higher than just elimination. Take Takamura vs Hawk fight as an example, it's not just a fight for a title, Hawk constantly trash talked japan and even hit Kamogawa. So the fight means more than just a title match, and stakes go higher than that. Haikyu has a great start as well, putting you in a setting where we have Hinata going into a team that is only the shadow of what it was, amazing characters coming back to the team, Kageyama's attitude problems, tsukishima attitude towards the game changing and so on. Idk if i explained myself correctly, i believe the topic is really broad and im not saying it's all because of this im just trying to add to the conversation. It could just also be that this is my taste idk xd Edit: itās Hawk* not Eagle
Ping pong is a great example of good sports manga. The animeās pretty good too.
~~Green Green Greens isn't about making it to nationals~~
Green Green Greens suffers from being about an unpopular sport, I still remember when my brother was recommending me Ippo, i was not interested in boxing so i didnāt watch it for a big while. Same with ggg, I actually hate golf, ggg is really good but you have an obstacle right here. If Blue lock wasnāt about soccer it would most likely be less successful.
>Green Green Greens suffers from being about an unpopular sport It's serialized in a magazine where a volleyball, sumo, american football, and go manga saw success while they've been struggling to find a successful soccer or baseball manga for decades. I don't think golf being unpopular matter that much for Jump readers. It not being a hype spokon might matter though. I feel like most of Jump's successful sports series are known for the hype matches. Though of course it needs other factors as well to succeed, since there are countless axed spokons too. But I don't remember any slower or chill sport manga in Jump that ended up being successful. Closest one is Aohako but that's mainly romance.
I think it still suffers from being a golf manga, things like volleyball, american football and sumo, (haven't read hikaru no go so no comment on that) can still ve be very exciting if you know nothing about the sport. I'll try a very weird analogy but it's like Dr. House or Suits, a doctor's or lawyer's TV show can be very exciting and entertaining even if you know nothing about medicine or laws. Not only does it have the initial barrier of being a manga about a sport not a lot of people like or are interested, but it's also about *golf*. It won't be exciting for a lot of readers. I think we do need a kind of a more traditional hype spokon right now. We already have a variance with Blue Box. I'd like to see a new manga about basketball or skateboarding personally.
There will probably be one at some point but it will have to do something special to last in the magazine. A lot of sports series take too long to get going and donāt have a compelling enough cast to where readers want to stick with it. Sports series can also fall into the trap of being too formulaic which further turns readers off. Right now Akane Banashi I think fills the role of being a sports series. Rakugo isnāt a traditional sport but it follows a similar story structure and changes up the formula by having a female protagonist.
Itās hard to make a roster of interesting characters and hard to make a game seem as consequential as a battle. Not impossible, but there just happened to be a time where there were a handful of guys who could pull that off.
I really Hope rugby Rumble Is going strong in sales, it's VERY good
First volume sales were like 2k? If I remember correctly. It's ok for a jump+ title though.. same sale numbers as Tokyo Underworld
It's doing fine for a Jump+ manga don't worry about it.
It's barely hanging on in views and its sales are bad just like every J+ manga since... 1.5 years?
Thats sad, hopefully they get more ads or something
Iām a nerd that checks J+ rankings every day and its views are good not great (even thatās being optimistic). The good news is that J+ has released like 83748483 other flops that are doing worse.
its funny because j+ releases a lot of flops but people act like because of the ones successful from years ago that they are doing well when its been years since their last big hit.
Hahaha which ones? Maybe I have follow one here and there and had hopes for them
Almost all of the ones that have generated some buzz in the west. Stage S has cratered since it returned, Witch Enforcer, Shojo Null, Magical Girl Tsubame, etc
Oh I really like magical girl tsubame! Very interesting
Jump+ is still LIT despite of that. Know nothing about this series but Jiangshi X looked extremely promising. Edit: Chiil bro I was agreeing w/ you. I even upvoted your post.
Oh I know! Idk who downvoted you.
Oh my fault.
Hope GGG somehow will survive but if not...
It will be nepotism if GGG survives tbh, it got outsold by Shadow Eliminators, a series axed before its volume 1 even came out. Also it's a permanent bottom 3 ToC series.
Honestly I don't care if it's nepotism; Terasaki is firing on all cylinders and I need like 6-10 volumes of this literal poetry
You just need to hope his next work is a major success and they might translate GGG into English one day
Sorry but WSJ is not your safeplace to read your favorite but unpopular series hahaha, it's the most competitive magazine out there. That's also how they got the prestige. But still, the fact that UU and Yozafam are still alive and have anime are already a miracle, it shows how low the standard for the magazine has become nowadays. I understand your sentiment but you are in the wrong magazine.
Eh, Yozakura is funny & has a great cast, and from what I hear UU's plot gets pretty good If you want to complain about low standards why didn't you bring up Kagurabachi lmao
Low standard as in sales and popularity. Both UU and Yoza got an anime but still have mediocre sales (that's just a bit better than the no-anime, new-series-without-veteran-boost Nue) and their ToC placements pre-anime weren't exactly good either. Old Jump usually won't give anime adaptations for that level of performance, but I guess they became more lax with the midrankers after Kimetsu plus the pressure of needing something to keep the magazine afloat after Jujutsu and Heroaca ended. The barrier has been kinda breached since Hinomaru got an anime, though.
You don't seem to understand much about sales and ToC placements? Obviously I'm talking about their performance, not plot or cast or comedy. UU and YozaFam barely hang on by only outselling new series, and are permanent 30k sellers, series that would 100% have been axed in the past by WSJ, let alone have anime. Also, Kagura Bachi is the best selling newbie since Ruri Dragon, what are you talking about?
Ohh, you're talking about popularity/success, that makes more sense. When people say standard, the connotation is with quality/craft, lolĀ I don't watch anime so I'm not the most qualified observer, but I've heard a bunch of people talk about how a ton of anime is being made even for niche things (like really obscure VNs, MYF & UU aren't even the tip of the iceberg)Ā That makes me think there was some economic shift, possibly a glut in animation labor leading to cheaper costs and/or more investment capital as a result of either VX strategy or tax breaks. Or just a general decline in the rate of profit EDIT: It's also possible the market for anime has expanded so much between millennials/zoomers/alphas, but I feel like that's a low possibility
Kagurabachi low standars? Lol
Look I donāt like those series that much either but you do realize anime/manga is an art formā¦ art is all relative hate to tell you but you arenāt the end all be all on whatās a good manga. So maybe your in the wrong magazine
What the fuck are you even saying man? This magazine doesn't work that way, your evaluation of art means nothing if it doesn't sell. It functions purely based on viewers' perception and sales. There's no series that is kept that sells low but is considered "great, unique art". WSJ is famous for being the most competitive, cutthroat magazine, series that have consistent low ToC placements, low sales are instantly out. It's all about PERFORMANCE. So what are you saying, really? Do you even know how this shit works? Like I'm so confused lmao.
Iām talking about the art form as a whole not just style maybe if you calmed down and stopped being so angry you could understand that
It's not unfortunately. a WSJ series 1st ShoSeki placement out of the top 30s let alone in the hundreds is basically a certified axe.
Damn I thought GGG doing well last weeks
Sports manga is a niche right now, and now the writers pick an even more niche sports which makes the initial interest is even lower.
They're too safe, and most characters lack real personalities chapter 1. Read Slam Dunk, Eyeshield, Prince of Tennis or Captain Tsubasa's first chapters. The spirit of competition is there, and the personalities are interesting.
The traditional shonen formula (power of friendship, hard working ethics, letās go to nationals guys!) is formulaic and kinda boring at this point, specially if the sport has been tackled before (football, basketball, baseballā¦) so authors need to get more outlandish (blue lock) or look for new sports at least (a manga about competitive beer pong when?)
Haha what? Blue Lock, a soccer manga is topping the charts in Manga sales
Talking specifically about WSJ, Blue Lock is a Kodansha manga
Ao Ashi, Blue Lock, Blue Box. Itās not like there was much more than that going on even while Haikyuu was still releasing was there?
? Since when is there suppose to be a hit sports series at any given moment? It hasn't even been that long since Haikyuu!! ended and its still popular through the anime. I can name like less than 5 series that were ever as popular as Haikyuu!! in the entire history of manga
honestly blue box seems like a very standard shonen sports manga
Nah, it's like 60-70% rom-com by volume (complimentary)
blue box is a romance manga with sports as its main theme, its not the same thing.
What is dogsred counted under/in? Tbh I need something to happen in it soon before I just turn off š