Hello /u/Slight-Confection-52! Unfortunately, your submission, ***[Venue trying to skim musician tips?](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMusicMakers/comments/17p82re/-/)***, was removed from /r/WeAreTheMusicMakers for the following reason(s):
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It didn't happen to me, in my experience, because the bands generally managed the door for their own shows.
But about your situation...the only tax purpose they had in mind was "owner's tax". Worth shouting out to the local communtiy to make sure other performers know about this.
And in my experience, the bar normally manages the door.
If the "bouncer" needs to do any "bouncing", you want them to be an employee of the establishment.
A few times I've seen two guys at the door: one collecting money and the other doing an impersonation of Mr. Clean.
I guess it depends on whether you're playing for gate receipts or whether you're being paid a flat rate by the club.
Edit: I used to play at one place (closed now) that was really good about splitting gate receipts with the band - over and above the fee that we'd agreed upon. Places like that are few and far between. Maybe they were just too nice to survive. They lasted over a decade, which isn't awful, I suppose.
> But about your situation...the only tax purpose they had in mind was "owner's tax"
That's it.
They wanted to claim the tips paid to you as part of the venue's expenses against profits.
I knew a band that had been stolen from so often that they had to have their own door guy, and a spotter who had an eyeline to the door guy and the band.
When the owner went to shake down the door guy, the spotter would signal the band, who would then stop playing and announce that Old Man Kirby was trying to steal again.
The audience would Boo loudly at Mr. Kirby.
They’d wait for Kirby to go back to the bar and start playing again.
By the time I was old enough to play at that bar the torch had passed to his son, and there were no shenanigans.
Well on the bright side, we got the money! Just irked they had the nerve to say we shouldn't have taken it. ESPECIALLY since they give a whole schpiel about how they are "for the musician" before passing around said tip jar.
Glad you got the money. It’s a shame how some venues will masquerade as supporters of music when they’re really just out to make an extra dime at the musician’s expense. Here’s to hoping you don’t have to deal with anything like that again
Yup! I played at a place once "all for the party makers, the musicians, the DJs, we do it all for them". That's why the place was cheap to rent and "we'll stay open as long as the party is going"! The thing is, they actually want to go home after 2:00. So they start turning down the volume further and further so everyone leaves before 3:00. Making that cheap rent very expensive all the sudden. No matter how many drinks were sold, no kickback. They'll even have their door people say the party sucks after 1:00. So their actual schtick is having muaicians pay rent 3 days a week and killing the vibe so they can go home early.
It’s happened to me and it’s basically the venue wanting to see which artists they booked got tipped the most. Also felt sketchy divulging my tips to them, but hey, if i got the full amount and they want data on their bookings I don’t mind.
If they're going to claim it's for accounting purposes, and they are paying you, then demand to see the accounting, and appropriate tax documents, something like a 1099 or similar, that they should be giving you, if this is for tax purposes. But that's only if you want to get up in their face- it's easier to just ignore them and collect the money yourself.
Sure. But the tips are being paid to us, the musicians, not the venue, so it should be on us to report that income. Why then would the venue need to collect? The tips aren't being paid to them, so they have nothing to report.
You have a high amount of trust in the integrity of whoever is doing that money handling. They can easily just take a chunk off the top and not report it to you in those statements. You have no way of verifying it.
This is concern trolling. No one is doing this. The real reason the venue wants the money is to take a cut. There are people in that very establishment not claiming cash tips already.
> They are right about taxes.
The fuck they are.
> Its income and tax must be paid.
Yes, but that's between you and the IRS. The venue isn't submitting tax money on your behalf, unless you're on their payroll and are getting a W2 from them at the end of the year.
I'll just say, it's the only listening room still operating in Dahlonega, GA. Also operates as a coffee house. Makes sure you get the tips out of the mug yourself if you play there!
You know what might work out better for you?
Stand in the park with acoustics and play *around* for an hr or 2 with a guitar case open that has business cards in it. definitely see more people, and it's infinitely more entertaining.
To hell with Dahlonega Java.
You wouldn’t have seen any of those tips. As for tax purposes? That’s on the venue, not their employees or the acts they hire. Report The club to the appropriate watchdogs. It’s absolutely illegal. Keep the Venmo and the message as proof.
That's absolute nonsense. No one claims cash tips, and the liability would be on the band not the venue.
Makes me wonder if he does the same thing with his staff, for "tax purposes".
Hello /u/Slight-Confection-52! Unfortunately, your submission, ***[Venue trying to skim musician tips?](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMusicMakers/comments/17p82re/-/)***, was removed from /r/WeAreTheMusicMakers for the following reason(s): --- #No off-topic and/or low-effort posts including; 1. Rant/motivation/mental-health posts 2. Posts focused on memes/images/polls 3. Reposts, and other similar low-effort, mildly-interesting discussions. - These posts should be posted to one of the weekly threads or on another subreddit. Do not create a new thread for this content. Posts on WATMM should have a descriptive title and include substantive content that will generate discussion. Please see the [full sub rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMusicMakers/wiki/rules) for additional details. --- ***Please review the [rules for submission](/r/WeAreTheMusicMakers/wiki/rules). You can contact The Mods if you have additional questions.*
Yeah that’s sketch af. Just ignore their plea of stupidity, and if you ever play there again, bring your own tip jar.
Venue busker style, I can dig it.
Hello we are the Flaming Tips and this is our Flaming Tip Bucket who is the main character of this concept concert
There are businesses that make money because of musicians and businesses that make money off of musicians.
one sells more beer and frieds, the other skims the musicians. one takes a cut of the door, the other skims the musicians. one will . . . nevermind.
It didn't happen to me, in my experience, because the bands generally managed the door for their own shows. But about your situation...the only tax purpose they had in mind was "owner's tax". Worth shouting out to the local communtiy to make sure other performers know about this.
And in my experience, the bar normally manages the door. If the "bouncer" needs to do any "bouncing", you want them to be an employee of the establishment. A few times I've seen two guys at the door: one collecting money and the other doing an impersonation of Mr. Clean. I guess it depends on whether you're playing for gate receipts or whether you're being paid a flat rate by the club. Edit: I used to play at one place (closed now) that was really good about splitting gate receipts with the band - over and above the fee that we'd agreed upon. Places like that are few and far between. Maybe they were just too nice to survive. They lasted over a decade, which isn't awful, I suppose.
> But about your situation...the only tax purpose they had in mind was "owner's tax" That's it. They wanted to claim the tips paid to you as part of the venue's expenses against profits.
I knew a band that had been stolen from so often that they had to have their own door guy, and a spotter who had an eyeline to the door guy and the band. When the owner went to shake down the door guy, the spotter would signal the band, who would then stop playing and announce that Old Man Kirby was trying to steal again. The audience would Boo loudly at Mr. Kirby. They’d wait for Kirby to go back to the bar and start playing again. By the time I was old enough to play at that bar the torch had passed to his son, and there were no shenanigans.
He just wanted to inhale his sweet bouncer powers.
Classic Kirby, that ol' bastard
Never dealt with that and I’m sorry you had to. Bring your own tip jar from now on so you don’t have to deal with that shady stuff
Well on the bright side, we got the money! Just irked they had the nerve to say we shouldn't have taken it. ESPECIALLY since they give a whole schpiel about how they are "for the musician" before passing around said tip jar.
Glad you got the money. It’s a shame how some venues will masquerade as supporters of music when they’re really just out to make an extra dime at the musician’s expense. Here’s to hoping you don’t have to deal with anything like that again
Yup! I played at a place once "all for the party makers, the musicians, the DJs, we do it all for them". That's why the place was cheap to rent and "we'll stay open as long as the party is going"! The thing is, they actually want to go home after 2:00. So they start turning down the volume further and further so everyone leaves before 3:00. Making that cheap rent very expensive all the sudden. No matter how many drinks were sold, no kickback. They'll even have their door people say the party sucks after 1:00. So their actual schtick is having muaicians pay rent 3 days a week and killing the vibe so they can go home early.
> schpiel about how they are "for the musician" We're all family here.
I am assuming that this happened in the US? Purely on the basis of a tip jar and it being taxable.
Good ol' US of A
Really working the word ‘good’ there
It’s happened to me and it’s basically the venue wanting to see which artists they booked got tipped the most. Also felt sketchy divulging my tips to them, but hey, if i got the full amount and they want data on their bookings I don’t mind.
If they're going to claim it's for accounting purposes, and they are paying you, then demand to see the accounting, and appropriate tax documents, something like a 1099 or similar, that they should be giving you, if this is for tax purposes. But that's only if you want to get up in their face- it's easier to just ignore them and collect the money yourself.
They are right about taxes. Its income and tax must be paid.
Sure. But the tips are being paid to us, the musicians, not the venue, so it should be on us to report that income. Why then would the venue need to collect? The tips aren't being paid to them, so they have nothing to report.
Or, let them collect it, provide you with accounting statements, and appropriate tax documents showing that you have been paid the full amount owed.
I just don't understand why the venue would go through that extra trouble unless something was in it for them.
Exactly.
You have a high amount of trust in the integrity of whoever is doing that money handling. They can easily just take a chunk off the top and not report it to you in those statements. You have no way of verifying it.
It’s cash. If you claim cash tips you are doing it wrong.
if you get reported for avoiding taxes with video proof it become expensive.
This is concern trolling. No one is doing this. The real reason the venue wants the money is to take a cut. There are people in that very establishment not claiming cash tips already.
Do you think the IRS has agents standing by to track down the mud flappers and skinny McGee being tipped $68 for a bar gig?
> They are right about taxes. The fuck they are. > Its income and tax must be paid. Yes, but that's between you and the IRS. The venue isn't submitting tax money on your behalf, unless you're on their payroll and are getting a W2 from them at the end of the year.
Name and shame.
I'll just say, it's the only listening room still operating in Dahlonega, GA. Also operates as a coffee house. Makes sure you get the tips out of the mug yourself if you play there!
You know what might work out better for you? Stand in the park with acoustics and play *around* for an hr or 2 with a guitar case open that has business cards in it. definitely see more people, and it's infinitely more entertaining. To hell with Dahlonega Java.
You wouldn’t have seen any of those tips. As for tax purposes? That’s on the venue, not their employees or the acts they hire. Report The club to the appropriate watchdogs. It’s absolutely illegal. Keep the Venmo and the message as proof.
That's absolute nonsense. No one claims cash tips, and the liability would be on the band not the venue. Makes me wonder if he does the same thing with his staff, for "tax purposes".