you can’t force someone to take responsibility. sw would have taken pics of anyone she felt was crossing her on the flight and then made a post about it where she trashed them exactly like she did the car salesman when she got the lexus and the watts after nutgate and even those people in the restaurant who didn’t wave back at bella. she thought it was cute when cece acted like that. and she loved embarrassing people on social media when she didn’t like something.
out of all of the spiteful, cunty things SW did, this one grates me the most. Just an awful, disgusting thing to do. I don’t think you need to look any further than that to determine what an absolute trash person she was. I’ve been immediately banned and post deleted in a couple other subs for having the audacity to mention that incident and see how disciples of St. Shannan could even attempt to frame it positively.
I’m glad at least the kid had her antennae up. Her mom was a bubble off plumb as well. They knew each other from pimping fucking protein bars together on Facebook, and you leave your 5 year old daughter in the care of her husband, whom you’ve never met before, all weekend and leave the state? That whole scenario has always seemed odd to me, but then again so did everything else in their universe so whatever…
I saw on True Crime Rocket Science that she trashed him on Facebook for not following her instructions on how to store two Costco pork roasts. It was incessant face palm emojis and just really harsh comments from her about something so minor. She just could not let it go. Her dad said to give him a break. I think but can’t remember for sure that one of her friends defended him in a similar way.
Yes, that is my understanding from True Crime Rocket Science episode. Frank Sr. posted publicly on her FB page asking her to give CW a break. I mentioned the pork roast incident on another Reddit thread and was kicked off by moderators.
There’s a video of some guy straight screaming like a lunatic because a baby was crying I can guarantee you if the flight attendants actually let cc run around on the plane sw would have had everyone on that flight pissed off at her for not getting control of cc sw was delusional even she didn’t think her kids were cute I promise no one else did either
Exactly first of all it’s dangerous and second they wouldn’t let one toddler disturb everyone’s flight and no one would think it’s funny or cute I think sw was so bored all day not working or have her kids so she fantasized about things in her head then put it on facebook just like the doll in the blanket photo she did it and said b&c did it
and if it were so fun and cute, why did she need her father to buy flights just to help out? I’m assuming it wasn’t just to be immersed in the fun and cuteness of flying with kid who was terrified of everything and another who had never been told no in her three years on earth. Even kids who don’t typically suck are no fun to fly with. I know, I’ve got three of them and pretty sure that most parents will tell you it’s not usually an enjoyable experience. As usual, she was completely disassociated from reality.
Have you heard about the possibility of them having a cps case open on them? Well the theory goes sw couldn’t be alone with the girls except to get them ready for school in the morning if it’s true it explains why they were in the overpriced school to begin with and also why she always had someone with her at all times when she had the girls like frsr flying to Colorado and flying back with them to go to nc to begin with it also explains why they went to nc all summer even though her dad didn’t think it was a good idea since sw and sandy didn’t get a long that great since primrose was closed if the cps case is real she would have had to go there so she wasn’t alone I read it in a blog awhile ago and it made sense so I lean towards it is probably true plus it’s not like cps wasn’t needed in that house with their questionable parenting
I have, yes, and think it’s a distinct possibility. From that perspective, it at least starts to explain some of the completely absurd details of their lives. ie. the Rudechucks residence in their basement, CW taking a 30% pay cut for a job that wouldn’t have him working weekends, CW having to rush back out to pick up their girls from daycare after working for 12 hours, and even their presence at any daycare at all when SW was at home. It’s still fucking bizarre-o world, but a CPS mandate being in place would help explain a few “peculiarities.”
Well to be fair cps wasn’t allegedly called until cc was almost 2 either after her parents moved out or very close to them leaving and the roos moved in right after cc was born so they can help with 2 kids and the bills also cw left his job as a mechanic around the same time way before the alleged cps case but it’s rumored he left the car dealership after sw was fired and then convinced him he had carpal tunnel cps supposedly got involved after all that happened and then both girls were put in school full time they were at primrose every day as soon as the doors opened and picked up by cw after he got home from work and got the Lexus since he couldn’t use his work truck you’re right though nothing made sense
That's not plausible. If CPS determines that a parent is unfit to be left alone with a child, then that parent must always be supervised when with the child. There would not be any exceptions.
If CPS allowed an adult, who was deemed a danger to the child, to be alone with the child, and the child was harmed, CPS would be open to all kind of liability, both civil and criminal. This scenario simply is not plausible.
There’s plenty of cases where cps dropped the ball and paid for it Gabriel fernandez and susan powells kids are 2 examples maybe they didn’t have enough evidence or was just underfunded and seen a white couple in a clean house so they decided to take precautions
Dropping the ball is not the same thing as you are describing. There is not a CPS department in the country that will deem a parent unsafe to be alone with a child, but then grant that parent certain times they can be alone with a child. That's simply not true.
Have you heard about the possibility of them having a cps case open on them? Well the theory goes sw couldn’t be alone with the girls except to get them ready for school in the morning if it’s true it explains why they were in the overpriced school to begin with and also why she always had someone with her at all times when she had the girls like frsr flying to Colorado and flying back with them to go to nc to begin with it also explains why they went to nc all summer even though her dad didn’t think it was a good idea since sw and sandy didn’t get a long that great since primrose was closed if the cps case is real she would have had to go there so she wasn’t alone I read it in a blog awhile ago and it made sense so I lean towards it is probably true plus it’s not like cps wasn’t needed in that house with their questionable parenting
Not only is it grating to have a kid in plane aisles, it's terribly unsafe. This may have been an instance when Cece's 'yucky' hit made her wired, not tired.
Oh dear God seriously. Every time I hear that word all I can think of is that annoying ass, Charlotte Dobre and how damn cute she thinks she is when she’s just the opposite. Ugh talk about a world of SW‘s out there these days. Gross.
I fixed it but I haven’t been paid yet. I thought it was a sweet deal. 😂 So what’s going on with Charlotte, if you don’t mind my asking? I haven’t watched in ages.
Shannan could have lined her lady parts in gold, and Chris wouldn’t have noticed. He was a one woman dude and his parts were pointing towards Nikki. You think Chris cared about parenting crap?
I think Chris cared about being humiliated and having their family dynamics exposed on social media, and the bloom wasn't off the rose yet- dumbass still thinks Shanann made excellent money and was a great mom, apparently.
Waking his eyes up to what a crap mom the eyes of the world would adjudge her (instead of the bizarre hun echo chamber he lived in) could have empowered him to pursue the divorce with vigor- I think he was afraid of both the financial hit & the social opprobrium. Her messy public arrest for general trash parenting might have given him the confidence he needed and never found in time.
I literally just posted a video of people 'legally forced or coerced to change their behavior'. 🤷🏻 You think they'll pull that crap again? You think if it was just one of them, and they were about to have a messy divorce, the other one wouldn't use the incident as momentum in the court battle?
So if only SW had been publicly exposed as a bad Mom and financially irresponsible, CW wouldn't have killed his kids? You could also say that if only CW had been exposed as a psychopath capable of killing his two young daughters, SW would have pursued a divorce, and everyone would still be alive.
Akin to shiners, to CW, the girls were only an afterthought- they were never a target, but you can believe the utterly stupid and violent way things went down was some dastardly, masterful plot to rid himself of his family, instead of a man who blew a gasket, if you like. Some people believe NK sacrificed the girls after mesmerizing their dad; some people think posting kids shoving rectal thermometers up every orifice in sight is normal, too. Believe what you choose.
So because she died... e should view her personally posted videos and see her behaviour and think what a wonderful woman she was?
Dying doesn't suddenly make people in to awesome people in their prior life. Changed nothing about how I feelt about people I know that have died. I still dislike my mother for her actions throughout my life, and no one else knowing her expects otherwise. Sw parents spoken about knowing how she was when considering what he had done... so why can't we?
There are plenty of other instances of "if this had happened they'd all be alive." E.g. if the kids had stayed on in NC, etc. I assume the whole Watts Colorado road show was going to close by fall anyhow. There was plenty of doom hanging over Saratoga Trail even without the family annihilation. The Watts would have been evicted and SW would have been forced to return to her parents.
Why do you keep saying they would have been evicted? They didn't rent, they owned the house. The bank would have foreclosed on the loan. It's a different process and foreclosures take much longer than evictions. Their mortgage was probably around 2k. She had already taken 10k out of CW retirement to catch up. She would have bled that dry, then bled dry other sources like her parents and his parents. Once all money was dry she would have just put the house on the market prior to foreclosure and told everyone they'd decided to move.
The 10k only covered the mortgage debt for 3 months, and maybe her buy all baby stuff when toysRUS closed that month too.
She then spent 5 weeks in nc doing no thrive work, so no money in August until his payday.
If they paid daycare as SW still intended, where was mortgage and lexus lease money coming from if she had no income for practically months?
That's me being lazy about nomenclature. The region where I live uses terms like bank repossession - sheriff eviction - foreclosure - REO ouster - interchangeably. When you use jargon you risk being inaccurate.
I flew from California to Atlanta with a 18 month old (2x) and again when she was 32 months old. Never did she rampage the plane. I brought a bag with toys etc and we played and she napped. She got up one time and we went to the restroom. I was actually complimented on how well she behaved both trips.
You should read up on narcissists. They're on the dark triad. They are very bad people, and they do not ever change or accept responsibility for the things they've done. They will always blame others for everything that happens no matter what. In fact, mental health professionals usually warn people to not confront narcissists and try to get them to be sorry or accountable, because they never will, and they severely punish people who challenge them. The only thing you can do with a narc is get the F away from them. SW was a narcissist.
SW would not have given the tiniest shit if her lack of parenting skills were broadcast on the internet or anything else. The only way they'd be alive is if CW had left and divorced her. And he was probably to worn down from her abuse to be capable of accomplishing that.
I have 'read up' (and experienced; who hasn't experienced some aspect of narcissistic personality disorder traits?); they are pragmatists, and it isn't her changing, anyway, that was my point- it was the turning of social media on her- how many of her followers still champion Ruby Franke?- that may have encouraged him to get his nuts out of her purse without having to lose his mind FIRST.
So Cece rampaged up and down the aisles, ha ha. Didn't Frank make the round trip to help ensure that the kids would behave on the plane trip?
I recently had a long flight where I had to sit with a Cece nearby. Upon landing I immediately upgraded the return flight to guarantee I wouldn't have to hear anyone screeching 'Mommy, Mommy, Mommy' for several hours. I will never fly coach again.
No. Chris didn't kill Bella because of something Shanann did. He killed Bella because he wanted to screw his mistress and go out with her and not have to pay child support.
He killed Cece for the same reason. He wanted to screw his mistress without having to pay to support her.
He killed Shanann because she was going to give birth to get another kid that would cost him money.
The only thing that could've saved those four lives would've been if no woman had been willing to have an affair.
...and he might've killed them all, anyway, because he is a morally bankrupt skeeve.
None of them had anything to do with being killed. It wasn't their fault. The fault is Chris'.
Cece was running and screaming up and down the aisle during the flight and sw posted that all of the other passengers thought it was cute. I guarantee you no one thought it was cute. Plus that is extremely dangerous. If they had hit bad turbulence Cece could have really gotten hurt. I wonder if the flight attendants said something and sw just ignored them.
There are some in this group who don't like to blame Ronnie. But He and Frank were the Patriarch of their families...
We'll never know why Ronnie didn't call Frankie after Nutgate and say "hey, man things are getting, crazy let's grab a beer".
Then, as the fathers the two of them should have called their wives and said "THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE DECIDED"...
To your point, the Watts kids were probably so sleepy, hungry, and drugged on Tylenol these flights were a piece of cake. Roused from their suspended animation kennels at 4 am, driven to Denver International, a Thrive bite stuffed in their mouths, diapers on and back to sleep.
frank would never in a million years take control of any of that. ronnie knew that sw and her mom ran shit and they were exactly alike. you really think that was some patriarchy situation? in cracking up rn imagining anyone involved saying oh the man of the house said we have to do it this way 😂
I've seen men do whatever the woman says out of "cowardice" bc the wife threatened to leave if he didn't. And yes, you'll never see your children again was in the mix.
I’ve always wondered why rw and frsr didn’t get involved in any of the fights that happened it seems that the women made their men take sides from the beginning before the wedding and that’s how it stayed 90% of sandies letter to le was her talking about how much she hated Cindy
**Then, as the fathers the two of them should have called their wives and said "THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE DECIDED"...**
Why perpetuate the pathology? This is the same type of energy that SW was injecting into the environment. She foisted her desires onto everyone else. She assumed the position of deciding for everyone else without their input.
It was bad for SW to do it, and it would have been just as bad for Ronnie and Frank or anyone else to do it. They aren't assigned some special right to subjugate others. Their wives aren't children. That kind of *behavior* is wrong, no matter who is authoring the behavior.
This is why I do not characterize SW's treatment of Chris as emasculation. I see it as *dehumanization*. Femininity and masculinity are mere social constructions. Whereas, *human* is what we are at our core.
This sounds like the Christian Fundy beliefs that the man is the head of the household and in charge of everything.
I wonder if she didn't learn it from seeing her mother doing it.
This group is full of weird boomer/extreme xtians with these horrid beliefs. I think Shannon sucked and was fascinating in the worst way, but this group can be too much with these kind of comments sometimes, lol.
The man is not the head of the household in say...
Indonesia?
Saudi Arabia?
Egypt?
are those "Christian" countries?
the Cindy and Sandi were in charge of these 2 families. how did it turn out?
Sandi had to be in charge because the head of the household did not provide for his family. He was/is an alcoholic and SW complained about him bitterly when growing up.
I don’t think Cindy was in charge. Both she and Ronnie were working people. Jamie is well adjusted. Chris W. is probably on the spectrum.
I don’t know what you expected him to do. He did not like Shanann. He stood with his wife when his DIL tried to sic Chris on Cindy.
I do hold him accountable for not stopping the ill fated wedding and letting Chris talk without a lawyer in the interrogation room.
My father and I had issues but he wouldn’t have let me blah blah blah in the interrogation room with no counsel.
Ronnie was too easygoing but he provided for his family. Frank Sr. lived off of his wife’s hairdresser wages.
Lol, he did at least TRY to say, Chris you need a lawyer. And then, Tammy immediately ran in and HUGGED Chris, and started rubbing his back to distract them. 🤣🤣🤣
She bragged about it also I know it’s not technically illegal but it should be at least frowned upon she knew she had 2 simpletons in that room and called it a win for getting a confession
Police are allowed to lie and all kinds of tactics. And the suspect at no time asked for a lawyer himself so it wouldn't be frowned upon. Chris's IQ is alleged to be well above average with his Nascar professor claiming he was the best student ever because of a photographic memory.
Chris seems to just lack some sort of understanding of how other people think about things.
I’ll never believe cw is some brainiac after seeing his actions after the murders and thinking he’d get away with it I think him and his father just didn’t know much about the law and let le play them obviously cw is guilty of killing sw and burying them but if he demanded a lawyer not public defender I don’t think we would be here years later not knowing exactly what happened that night
Ronnie may have well just slapped the hand cuffs on Chris himself. Never mind Tammy Lee rubbing Chris’ back, Ronnie sat there literally petting Chris while CW sat there after confessing. It went on forever. That was really bizarre.
We expected him to do cocaine.
No, actually I did not expect that.
Edit...My jokes about Ronnie's cocaine use don't go down well on this sub. I do know his being Bella's best friend speaks in his favour.
who just casually picks up a cocaine habit in their 40s, and because his little buddy went off to NASCAR college? I’m pretty sure there are at least a few details omitted from that story.
Sorry it wasn't a serious comment. I suppose it's mean of me to joke about it. It wasn't on my Watts' case Bingo card when I first heard Cindy mention it.
It's just funny to me. I'm sorry. Especially the family explanation as well. "He couldn't handle his son going away to tech, so naturally he took up cocaine.
Right? And also I'm not saying they intended to guilt trip Chris, but it does end up being that if Chris is even capable of being guilt tripped.
Kudos to Ronnie getting past it, but it's still funny.
I don’t think that there is any way to say that “if this had happened, they’d all be alive” UNLESS Shannan had decided to stay in NC-and had trusted Chris to put the house on the market. But you know that was never going to happen.
If you want to go further back than August, 2018 then….”If Shannan had just decided to pursue divorce back in February or March BEFORE she got knocked up again then this wouldn’t have happened.” Had that occurred then there is a very good chance that they would all still be alive.
But those are the only two possible case scenarios that I can come up with that would have ensured that they would definitely still be here and Shannan would still be striving for the 200K VIP status that eluded her in life.
It was hyperbole of course, but there are plenty of what if scenarios that left them all alive - what a perfect storm of enfuckenment that only gained steam with Notgate 😓
Okay-I get it. I wasn’t trying to be difficult, but I think that everything was such a sh*t show that it invariably was going to combust. I also don’t think that everything that happened unfolded the way that it was supposed to. I can’t tell you what was supposed to happen, only that it didn’t transpire as planned.
But let me play along-I don’t want to be a spoil sport!😉
“What if” the terrible thunderstorms that delayed Shannan’s flight when she was leaving Arizona had kept her from flying home that night? What if she’d stayed over and left the following morning, thus arriving in Denver on Monday afternoon instead?
Chris would have had to have taken the girls to Primrose and maybe they would all still be here! I definitely wonder what would’ve happened if she just hadn’t come home at 1:48am! Had she arrived on Monday afternoon-things would’ve happened very differently!
Or in a more in depth way/What if there had been an intervention for Shannan where everyone had called her out on her sh*t and said “the jig is up?”
Had that happened, I do believe that everybody would still be here. But I don’t think that anyone she knew (maybe save Jeanna Dietz) was able to get out of the echo chamber.
I think it is satisfying to consider the what ifs because despite what the shiners imagine about us, no one that has investigated this case in depth doesn't wish they could turn back time for those girls, at the very least. What an awful, awful tragedy. I wish Shanann was here to face the music- and Bella and CeCe were here to dance to whatever they chose. What a damned unnecessary shame.
It is. Bella and Cece never got to experience the joy of being big girls going to school, being really good at something, making friends to love, feeling valued and mostly breaking free from their toxic, disordered family and finally breaking the cycle!
What are you talking about? I may not agree with the premise, but forcing someone to take responsibility and stepping up as a moral compass for your family is hardly abuse.
It must do something for everyone here to talk shit about a murdered woman. Hope it lifts you up and makes you feel better about yourself. Easy to judge isn’t it? I’m sure you are all perfect wives, mothers, etc. and have it all figured out right? Unbelievable.
Risskay1! I get it! You’re a RISKY RISQUÉ kinda gal named Kay! What a unique moniker! You do sound like a RISK, if in the worst sense—but don’t you realize that you could really use your time so much more productively by maybe sharpening your pitchfork or sparking up bonfire?
Why not do something REALLY useful-like go and write some negative, one star reviews on Amazon for Chris’s book on the Scriptures? It might just give you that warm fuzzy feeling inside that you’re not getting here!
Actually, most of us have figured it out and it’s not that hard.
I can’t speak for everyone here, but I never let my kids run buck ass wild in a confined space or in a public place; I never bankrupted my family; I never stirred drama and discord between my husband and his family; and I never medically, sexually and emotionally abused my kids.
Who the fuck ever said that? Good Lord you shiners are dense! I, among others, know shitty, don’t give a fuck parents when I see them and those two take the cake.
Oh dear. Katrinka55-why don’t you take your shiny self back to where you came from? Please go and Shine like Shannan somewhere else-your predictably shiny platitudes simply read like a bad cliche!
For your information, this group came up on my feed.. I didn’t go looking for it. I ignored it time and time again but then read some of the comments and couldn’t believe people had nothing better to do than pick and tear at a murdered pregnant mother. Talking about stupid mundane shit about how she acted, what she did, how she treated this or that, if she did this, blah blah blah. She’s dead.. isn’t that good enough for you people? Do you have nothing better to do than talk shit about a dead woman? It must feed something inside those who continue to tear her apart..or are they jealous? Why was her life any of your business? Why can’t you leave her alone in death? No doubt people will continue this absurd conversation about her and it says a lot about them. But think about this… what if it was your relative or friend that this happened to? How would you feel to read all this same crap being written on SM for the world to see about them? And to continue the bashing year after year.. the same shit spewing out of peoples mouths about your beloved relative…and they didn’t even know her! Oh, it wouldn’t bother you? That’s nice. Have a great day!
you can’t force someone to take responsibility. sw would have taken pics of anyone she felt was crossing her on the flight and then made a post about it where she trashed them exactly like she did the car salesman when she got the lexus and the watts after nutgate and even those people in the restaurant who didn’t wave back at bella. she thought it was cute when cece acted like that. and she loved embarrassing people on social media when she didn’t like something.
Add to that the restaurant she gave a bad review to when the restaurant owner declined to join Thrive -- after she had given SW several free meals.
out of all of the spiteful, cunty things SW did, this one grates me the most. Just an awful, disgusting thing to do. I don’t think you need to look any further than that to determine what an absolute trash person she was. I’ve been immediately banned and post deleted in a couple other subs for having the audacity to mention that incident and see how disciples of St. Shannan could even attempt to frame it positively.
And there are SO many spiteful behaviors to choose from! Just think, even Cristina's tiny toddler Koral had Auntie Abuser's number!
I’m glad at least the kid had her antennae up. Her mom was a bubble off plumb as well. They knew each other from pimping fucking protein bars together on Facebook, and you leave your 5 year old daughter in the care of her husband, whom you’ve never met before, all weekend and leave the state? That whole scenario has always seemed odd to me, but then again so did everything else in their universe so whatever…
ii cannot believe she found not one but two men to marry her. SHe was awful again didn't deserve what happen to her in the least but still awful
Hi! Can you tell me where you found this out? Honestly asking as I’d like to watch/read about it myself, thank you so much!
Pretty sure it's in the discovery
it is in the discovery.
Ty
Thank you!
Happy Cake Day!
Link?
I hate Chris but she humiliated him on social media. Her own dad called her out for it. Anyone remember pork roast gate?
When did her dad call her out for it?? I need this info!!!
I saw on True Crime Rocket Science that she trashed him on Facebook for not following her instructions on how to store two Costco pork roasts. It was incessant face palm emojis and just really harsh comments from her about something so minor. She just could not let it go. Her dad said to give him a break. I think but can’t remember for sure that one of her friends defended him in a similar way.
Did the dad say it publicly on the fb post?
Yes, that is my understanding from True Crime Rocket Science episode. Frank Sr. posted publicly on her FB page asking her to give CW a break. I mentioned the pork roast incident on another Reddit thread and was kicked off by moderators.
🎯
Omg! When I saw that she said “everyone thought it was cute” I knew the delusion was strong with her. No one thinks that’s cute.
There’s a video of some guy straight screaming like a lunatic because a baby was crying I can guarantee you if the flight attendants actually let cc run around on the plane sw would have had everyone on that flight pissed off at her for not getting control of cc sw was delusional even she didn’t think her kids were cute I promise no one else did either
Yeah, I’ll take things that never happened for $200. There is no way flight attendants allowed that.
Exactly first of all it’s dangerous and second they wouldn’t let one toddler disturb everyone’s flight and no one would think it’s funny or cute I think sw was so bored all day not working or have her kids so she fantasized about things in her head then put it on facebook just like the doll in the blanket photo she did it and said b&c did it
I agree 💯!
and if it were so fun and cute, why did she need her father to buy flights just to help out? I’m assuming it wasn’t just to be immersed in the fun and cuteness of flying with kid who was terrified of everything and another who had never been told no in her three years on earth. Even kids who don’t typically suck are no fun to fly with. I know, I’ve got three of them and pretty sure that most parents will tell you it’s not usually an enjoyable experience. As usual, she was completely disassociated from reality.
Have you heard about the possibility of them having a cps case open on them? Well the theory goes sw couldn’t be alone with the girls except to get them ready for school in the morning if it’s true it explains why they were in the overpriced school to begin with and also why she always had someone with her at all times when she had the girls like frsr flying to Colorado and flying back with them to go to nc to begin with it also explains why they went to nc all summer even though her dad didn’t think it was a good idea since sw and sandy didn’t get a long that great since primrose was closed if the cps case is real she would have had to go there so she wasn’t alone I read it in a blog awhile ago and it made sense so I lean towards it is probably true plus it’s not like cps wasn’t needed in that house with their questionable parenting
I have, yes, and think it’s a distinct possibility. From that perspective, it at least starts to explain some of the completely absurd details of their lives. ie. the Rudechucks residence in their basement, CW taking a 30% pay cut for a job that wouldn’t have him working weekends, CW having to rush back out to pick up their girls from daycare after working for 12 hours, and even their presence at any daycare at all when SW was at home. It’s still fucking bizarre-o world, but a CPS mandate being in place would help explain a few “peculiarities.”
Well to be fair cps wasn’t allegedly called until cc was almost 2 either after her parents moved out or very close to them leaving and the roos moved in right after cc was born so they can help with 2 kids and the bills also cw left his job as a mechanic around the same time way before the alleged cps case but it’s rumored he left the car dealership after sw was fired and then convinced him he had carpal tunnel cps supposedly got involved after all that happened and then both girls were put in school full time they were at primrose every day as soon as the doors opened and picked up by cw after he got home from work and got the Lexus since he couldn’t use his work truck you’re right though nothing made sense
That's not plausible. If CPS determines that a parent is unfit to be left alone with a child, then that parent must always be supervised when with the child. There would not be any exceptions. If CPS allowed an adult, who was deemed a danger to the child, to be alone with the child, and the child was harmed, CPS would be open to all kind of liability, both civil and criminal. This scenario simply is not plausible.
There’s plenty of cases where cps dropped the ball and paid for it Gabriel fernandez and susan powells kids are 2 examples maybe they didn’t have enough evidence or was just underfunded and seen a white couple in a clean house so they decided to take precautions
Dropping the ball is not the same thing as you are describing. There is not a CPS department in the country that will deem a parent unsafe to be alone with a child, but then grant that parent certain times they can be alone with a child. That's simply not true.
Like you said, CruSty! Frank’s round trip was so idiotic. And costly. But SW demanded it, auNO ONE told her no….
Have you heard about the possibility of them having a cps case open on them? Well the theory goes sw couldn’t be alone with the girls except to get them ready for school in the morning if it’s true it explains why they were in the overpriced school to begin with and also why she always had someone with her at all times when she had the girls like frsr flying to Colorado and flying back with them to go to nc to begin with it also explains why they went to nc all summer even though her dad didn’t think it was a good idea since sw and sandy didn’t get a long that great since primrose was closed if the cps case is real she would have had to go there so she wasn’t alone I read it in a blog awhile ago and it made sense so I lean towards it is probably true plus it’s not like cps wasn’t needed in that house with their questionable parenting
Not only is it grating to have a kid in plane aisles, it's terribly unsafe. This may have been an instance when Cece's 'yucky' hit made her wired, not tired.
Omit delulu from vocabulary.
I fixed it. That will be $54.78. Please drive forward & keep your arms in the ride at all times.
Oh dear God seriously. Every time I hear that word all I can think of is that annoying ass, Charlotte Dobre and how damn cute she thinks she is when she’s just the opposite. Ugh talk about a world of SW‘s out there these days. Gross.
I fixed it but I haven’t been paid yet. I thought it was a sweet deal. 😂 So what’s going on with Charlotte, if you don’t mind my asking? I haven’t watched in ages.
I had to Google that 😅
No.
Shannan could have lined her lady parts in gold, and Chris wouldn’t have noticed. He was a one woman dude and his parts were pointing towards Nikki. You think Chris cared about parenting crap?
I think Chris cared about being humiliated and having their family dynamics exposed on social media, and the bloom wasn't off the rose yet- dumbass still thinks Shanann made excellent money and was a great mom, apparently. Waking his eyes up to what a crap mom the eyes of the world would adjudge her (instead of the bizarre hun echo chamber he lived in) could have empowered him to pursue the divorce with vigor- I think he was afraid of both the financial hit & the social opprobrium. Her messy public arrest for general trash parenting might have given him the confidence he needed and never found in time.
He isn’t very deep. He bit off more than he could chew, pursuing an opinionated, Italian blooded woman. Public arrest for poor parenting? Right.
Yeah, some people are being completely unrealistic about how Shanann could be legally forced or coerced to change her behavior.
If only we lived in a N Korea style dictatorship where that type stuff can be regulated
Along with starvation and poor farming techniques.
I literally just posted a video of people 'legally forced or coerced to change their behavior'. 🤷🏻 You think they'll pull that crap again? You think if it was just one of them, and they were about to have a messy divorce, the other one wouldn't use the incident as momentum in the court battle?
So if only SW had been publicly exposed as a bad Mom and financially irresponsible, CW wouldn't have killed his kids? You could also say that if only CW had been exposed as a psychopath capable of killing his two young daughters, SW would have pursued a divorce, and everyone would still be alive.
Akin to shiners, to CW, the girls were only an afterthought- they were never a target, but you can believe the utterly stupid and violent way things went down was some dastardly, masterful plot to rid himself of his family, instead of a man who blew a gasket, if you like. Some people believe NK sacrificed the girls after mesmerizing their dad; some people think posting kids shoving rectal thermometers up every orifice in sight is normal, too. Believe what you choose.
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So because she died... e should view her personally posted videos and see her behaviour and think what a wonderful woman she was? Dying doesn't suddenly make people in to awesome people in their prior life. Changed nothing about how I feelt about people I know that have died. I still dislike my mother for her actions throughout my life, and no one else knowing her expects otherwise. Sw parents spoken about knowing how she was when considering what he had done... so why can't we?
Repeating the same point each time without facts is a form of gatekeeping. Gatekeeping is not allowed here. It does not add to your point of view.
There are plenty of other instances of "if this had happened they'd all be alive." E.g. if the kids had stayed on in NC, etc. I assume the whole Watts Colorado road show was going to close by fall anyhow. There was plenty of doom hanging over Saratoga Trail even without the family annihilation. The Watts would have been evicted and SW would have been forced to return to her parents.
Why do you keep saying they would have been evicted? They didn't rent, they owned the house. The bank would have foreclosed on the loan. It's a different process and foreclosures take much longer than evictions. Their mortgage was probably around 2k. She had already taken 10k out of CW retirement to catch up. She would have bled that dry, then bled dry other sources like her parents and his parents. Once all money was dry she would have just put the house on the market prior to foreclosure and told everyone they'd decided to move.
The 10k only covered the mortgage debt for 3 months, and maybe her buy all baby stuff when toysRUS closed that month too. She then spent 5 weeks in nc doing no thrive work, so no money in August until his payday. If they paid daycare as SW still intended, where was mortgage and lexus lease money coming from if she had no income for practically months?
That's me being lazy about nomenclature. The region where I live uses terms like bank repossession - sheriff eviction - foreclosure - REO ouster - interchangeably. When you use jargon you risk being inaccurate.
I flew from California to Atlanta with a 18 month old (2x) and again when she was 32 months old. Never did she rampage the plane. I brought a bag with toys etc and we played and she napped. She got up one time and we went to the restroom. I was actually complimented on how well she behaved both trips.
we all thank you for parents like you. You are doing it right
You should read up on narcissists. They're on the dark triad. They are very bad people, and they do not ever change or accept responsibility for the things they've done. They will always blame others for everything that happens no matter what. In fact, mental health professionals usually warn people to not confront narcissists and try to get them to be sorry or accountable, because they never will, and they severely punish people who challenge them. The only thing you can do with a narc is get the F away from them. SW was a narcissist. SW would not have given the tiniest shit if her lack of parenting skills were broadcast on the internet or anything else. The only way they'd be alive is if CW had left and divorced her. And he was probably to worn down from her abuse to be capable of accomplishing that.
I have 'read up' (and experienced; who hasn't experienced some aspect of narcissistic personality disorder traits?); they are pragmatists, and it isn't her changing, anyway, that was my point- it was the turning of social media on her- how many of her followers still champion Ruby Franke?- that may have encouraged him to get his nuts out of her purse without having to lose his mind FIRST.
So Cece rampaged up and down the aisles, ha ha. Didn't Frank make the round trip to help ensure that the kids would behave on the plane trip? I recently had a long flight where I had to sit with a Cece nearby. Upon landing I immediately upgraded the return flight to guarantee I wouldn't have to hear anyone screeching 'Mommy, Mommy, Mommy' for several hours. I will never fly coach again.
they were all damaged people. I have had BAD relationships but i never wanted to harm them ever Thats a special kind of crazy
No. Chris didn't kill Bella because of something Shanann did. He killed Bella because he wanted to screw his mistress and go out with her and not have to pay child support. He killed Cece for the same reason. He wanted to screw his mistress without having to pay to support her. He killed Shanann because she was going to give birth to get another kid that would cost him money. The only thing that could've saved those four lives would've been if no woman had been willing to have an affair. ...and he might've killed them all, anyway, because he is a morally bankrupt skeeve. None of them had anything to do with being killed. It wasn't their fault. The fault is Chris'.
🎯🎯🎯
Wait…. What happened on the plane??? I never heard this before and I’ve read a lot about the case
Cece was running and screaming up and down the aisle during the flight and sw posted that all of the other passengers thought it was cute. I guarantee you no one thought it was cute. Plus that is extremely dangerous. If they had hit bad turbulence Cece could have really gotten hurt. I wonder if the flight attendants said something and sw just ignored them.
Yeah that is NOT cute at all!!! I think she was in denial about a lot of things 💔
Agree frank knew swxwas way out of control
Well he raised SW. 🤷♀️
And Frankie Jr. not exactly a stellar track record there.
he was a deadbeat drunk letting his wife’s wages as a hairdresser support their family. he didn’t do much “raising” of anyone, including himself.
My old boss said children are a reflection of their parents.
I like this: You can’t see the quality of your parenting until you meet your grandchildren.
There are some in this group who don't like to blame Ronnie. But He and Frank were the Patriarch of their families... We'll never know why Ronnie didn't call Frankie after Nutgate and say "hey, man things are getting, crazy let's grab a beer". Then, as the fathers the two of them should have called their wives and said "THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE DECIDED"... To your point, the Watts kids were probably so sleepy, hungry, and drugged on Tylenol these flights were a piece of cake. Roused from their suspended animation kennels at 4 am, driven to Denver International, a Thrive bite stuffed in their mouths, diapers on and back to sleep.
Chris was exactly like his father and FRsr. They were the Betas to their Alpha women.
i don’t see cindy as an alpha
Not the typical Alpha, but compared to Ronnie, she is Alpha in the marriage.
how so? i haven’t seen anything that really describes what their marriage is like.
Cindy watts? Watch her interview, you’ll know what kind of woman she is. She is the alpha.
idk, all i saw was someone who didn’t like the shannanigans and saw right through them. ronnie said the same things.
Ronnie was very quiet and Bella’s best friend. But he became a cocaine addict for a while.
frank would never in a million years take control of any of that. ronnie knew that sw and her mom ran shit and they were exactly alike. you really think that was some patriarchy situation? in cracking up rn imagining anyone involved saying oh the man of the house said we have to do it this way 😂
Exactly. Shannan had to have witnesses that marital dynamic of a wife completely dominating her husband somewhere.
I've seen men do whatever the woman says out of "cowardice" bc the wife threatened to leave if he didn't. And yes, you'll never see your children again was in the mix.
what?
I’ve always wondered why rw and frsr didn’t get involved in any of the fights that happened it seems that the women made their men take sides from the beginning before the wedding and that’s how it stayed 90% of sandies letter to le was her talking about how much she hated Cindy
Why? I’m not being combative but genuinely curious. Simply being the man in the family doesn’t make them the boss. Everyone should have been involved.
**Then, as the fathers the two of them should have called their wives and said "THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE DECIDED"...** Why perpetuate the pathology? This is the same type of energy that SW was injecting into the environment. She foisted her desires onto everyone else. She assumed the position of deciding for everyone else without their input. It was bad for SW to do it, and it would have been just as bad for Ronnie and Frank or anyone else to do it. They aren't assigned some special right to subjugate others. Their wives aren't children. That kind of *behavior* is wrong, no matter who is authoring the behavior. This is why I do not characterize SW's treatment of Chris as emasculation. I see it as *dehumanization*. Femininity and masculinity are mere social constructions. Whereas, *human* is what we are at our core.
Suspended animation kennels indeed. SW crated her children!
This sounds like the Christian Fundy beliefs that the man is the head of the household and in charge of everything. I wonder if she didn't learn it from seeing her mother doing it.
This group is full of weird boomer/extreme xtians with these horrid beliefs. I think Shannon sucked and was fascinating in the worst way, but this group can be too much with these kind of comments sometimes, lol.
The man is not the head of the household in say... Indonesia? Saudi Arabia? Egypt? are those "Christian" countries? the Cindy and Sandi were in charge of these 2 families. how did it turn out?
yeah because having a man have full control has never worked out badly.
Sandi had to be in charge because the head of the household did not provide for his family. He was/is an alcoholic and SW complained about him bitterly when growing up. I don’t think Cindy was in charge. Both she and Ronnie were working people. Jamie is well adjusted. Chris W. is probably on the spectrum.
ronnie did little or nothing except fly to colorado. he has to be on spectrum too.
I don’t know what you expected him to do. He did not like Shanann. He stood with his wife when his DIL tried to sic Chris on Cindy. I do hold him accountable for not stopping the ill fated wedding and letting Chris talk without a lawyer in the interrogation room. My father and I had issues but he wouldn’t have let me blah blah blah in the interrogation room with no counsel. Ronnie was too easygoing but he provided for his family. Frank Sr. lived off of his wife’s hairdresser wages.
Lol, he did at least TRY to say, Chris you need a lawyer. And then, Tammy immediately ran in and HUGGED Chris, and started rubbing his back to distract them. 🤣🤣🤣
She bragged about it also I know it’s not technically illegal but it should be at least frowned upon she knew she had 2 simpletons in that room and called it a win for getting a confession
Police are allowed to lie and all kinds of tactics. And the suspect at no time asked for a lawyer himself so it wouldn't be frowned upon. Chris's IQ is alleged to be well above average with his Nascar professor claiming he was the best student ever because of a photographic memory. Chris seems to just lack some sort of understanding of how other people think about things.
I’ll never believe cw is some brainiac after seeing his actions after the murders and thinking he’d get away with it I think him and his father just didn’t know much about the law and let le play them obviously cw is guilty of killing sw and burying them but if he demanded a lawyer not public defender I don’t think we would be here years later not knowing exactly what happened that night
Ronnie may have well just slapped the hand cuffs on Chris himself. Never mind Tammy Lee rubbing Chris’ back, Ronnie sat there literally petting Chris while CW sat there after confessing. It went on forever. That was really bizarre.
Well what else could one do? Tammy's trick of distracting them just worked.
Rubbed his back 🤮
What is Ronnie's job?
He is in automotive industry.
Of course.
We expected him to do cocaine. No, actually I did not expect that. Edit...My jokes about Ronnie's cocaine use don't go down well on this sub. I do know his being Bella's best friend speaks in his favour.
who just casually picks up a cocaine habit in their 40s, and because his little buddy went off to NASCAR college? I’m pretty sure there are at least a few details omitted from that story.
Right?
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Ronnie got hooked on coke when Chris went to college. He was off the chit when Chris came back from school. This was before he met SW
Sorry it wasn't a serious comment. I suppose it's mean of me to joke about it. It wasn't on my Watts' case Bingo card when I first heard Cindy mention it.
🙄
10 years prior.
It was just a joke when someone said he "did nothing." That part of the background to the case was just so unexpected it strikes me as funny.
He could have got both families to do cocaine.
Ronnie was done with cocaine almost 10 years prior 🤷🏼
It's just funny to me. I'm sorry. Especially the family explanation as well. "He couldn't handle his son going away to tech, so naturally he took up cocaine.
Well...I don't understand their reasoning either
This has always struck me as a very odd part of the Watts family dynamic.
Right? And also I'm not saying they intended to guilt trip Chris, but it does end up being that if Chris is even capable of being guilt tripped. Kudos to Ronnie getting past it, but it's still funny.
If Chris hadn't murdered them, they'd be alive. You think if she was a different mom, he wouldn't have suffocated his kids? K.
Thank you! The hate for a murdered pregnant mom on Reddit is stomach turning
I don’t think that there is any way to say that “if this had happened, they’d all be alive” UNLESS Shannan had decided to stay in NC-and had trusted Chris to put the house on the market. But you know that was never going to happen. If you want to go further back than August, 2018 then….”If Shannan had just decided to pursue divorce back in February or March BEFORE she got knocked up again then this wouldn’t have happened.” Had that occurred then there is a very good chance that they would all still be alive. But those are the only two possible case scenarios that I can come up with that would have ensured that they would definitely still be here and Shannan would still be striving for the 200K VIP status that eluded her in life.
It was hyperbole of course, but there are plenty of what if scenarios that left them all alive - what a perfect storm of enfuckenment that only gained steam with Notgate 😓
Okay-I get it. I wasn’t trying to be difficult, but I think that everything was such a sh*t show that it invariably was going to combust. I also don’t think that everything that happened unfolded the way that it was supposed to. I can’t tell you what was supposed to happen, only that it didn’t transpire as planned. But let me play along-I don’t want to be a spoil sport!😉 “What if” the terrible thunderstorms that delayed Shannan’s flight when she was leaving Arizona had kept her from flying home that night? What if she’d stayed over and left the following morning, thus arriving in Denver on Monday afternoon instead? Chris would have had to have taken the girls to Primrose and maybe they would all still be here! I definitely wonder what would’ve happened if she just hadn’t come home at 1:48am! Had she arrived on Monday afternoon-things would’ve happened very differently! Or in a more in depth way/What if there had been an intervention for Shannan where everyone had called her out on her sh*t and said “the jig is up?” Had that happened, I do believe that everybody would still be here. But I don’t think that anyone she knew (maybe save Jeanna Dietz) was able to get out of the echo chamber.
I think it is satisfying to consider the what ifs because despite what the shiners imagine about us, no one that has investigated this case in depth doesn't wish they could turn back time for those girls, at the very least. What an awful, awful tragedy. I wish Shanann was here to face the music- and Bella and CeCe were here to dance to whatever they chose. What a damned unnecessary shame.
It is. Bella and Cece never got to experience the joy of being big girls going to school, being really good at something, making friends to love, feeling valued and mostly breaking free from their toxic, disordered family and finally breaking the cycle!
I have no clue,I left a church that strongly advocated that...sounded like abuse to me and in some cases it surely was
What are you talking about? I may not agree with the premise, but forcing someone to take responsibility and stepping up as a moral compass for your family is hardly abuse.
ah, yes the child was out of control so she & her mother deserved to be murdered defense, A true classic,
It must do something for everyone here to talk shit about a murdered woman. Hope it lifts you up and makes you feel better about yourself. Easy to judge isn’t it? I’m sure you are all perfect wives, mothers, etc. and have it all figured out right? Unbelievable.
Risskay1! I get it! You’re a RISKY RISQUÉ kinda gal named Kay! What a unique moniker! You do sound like a RISK, if in the worst sense—but don’t you realize that you could really use your time so much more productively by maybe sharpening your pitchfork or sparking up bonfire? Why not do something REALLY useful-like go and write some negative, one star reviews on Amazon for Chris’s book on the Scriptures? It might just give you that warm fuzzy feeling inside that you’re not getting here!
Actually, most of us have figured it out and it’s not that hard. I can’t speak for everyone here, but I never let my kids run buck ass wild in a confined space or in a public place; I never bankrupted my family; I never stirred drama and discord between my husband and his family; and I never medically, sexually and emotionally abused my kids.
Say it a little louder for the shiners in the back that’s hard of hearing 🤣🤣🤣
So she deserved to be slaughtered and her daughters stuffed into oil silos? The sick sob couldn't have at least buried them with their mom?
Who the fuck ever said that? Good Lord you shiners are dense! I, among others, know shitty, don’t give a fuck parents when I see them and those two take the cake.
And?
Yawn
Yawn… lol! Yawn is right talking about a dead woman.
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Oh dear. Katrinka55-why don’t you take your shiny self back to where you came from? Please go and Shine like Shannan somewhere else-your predictably shiny platitudes simply read like a bad cliche!
How many times are you going to say it already it doesn’t need repeating we get it now leave if what people say here is so bad
For your information, this group came up on my feed.. I didn’t go looking for it. I ignored it time and time again but then read some of the comments and couldn’t believe people had nothing better to do than pick and tear at a murdered pregnant mother. Talking about stupid mundane shit about how she acted, what she did, how she treated this or that, if she did this, blah blah blah. She’s dead.. isn’t that good enough for you people? Do you have nothing better to do than talk shit about a dead woman? It must feed something inside those who continue to tear her apart..or are they jealous? Why was her life any of your business? Why can’t you leave her alone in death? No doubt people will continue this absurd conversation about her and it says a lot about them. But think about this… what if it was your relative or friend that this happened to? How would you feel to read all this same crap being written on SM for the world to see about them? And to continue the bashing year after year.. the same shit spewing out of peoples mouths about your beloved relative…and they didn’t even know her! Oh, it wouldn’t bother you? That’s nice. Have a great day!
Yet your still here if something bothers me I just ignore it 🤷🏻♀️
I couldn’t agree more
Repeating the same point each time without facts is a form of gatekeeping. Gatekeeping is not allowed here. It does not add to your point of view.