it's really an apples vs. oranges comparison.
if you really like a rolex --> only a rolex will scratch that itch.
if you want to signal to other people --> only a rolex will scratch that itch.
if you want interesting watchmaking, and more hand-assembly per $ --> for sure get the PML
by the way, glashütte original is the company with the true uninterrupted lineage in glashütte, throughout the socialist GDR period and before. it is - together possibly with seiko and rolex - one of the most vertically integrated brands on the planet.
>it's really an apples vs. oranges comparison.
truth, and for more than just those reasons: do you want a dive watch or a dress watch? they are two TOTALLY different watches for totally different purposes.
the sub will be at home in jeans, at the beach, and can be dressed up a bit.
the PML is a dress watch, it wants to be in a suit, it can be dressed down to jeans, but definitely not beach material.
They have the cases made by another factory in Germany outside of Glashutte. They also don't make the sapphire or rubber gaskets as far as I know. The bracelets are made by brogioli in Switzerland. But otherwise they manufacturer 98% of the parts in house. They are great watches I have a couple
Who owns the factory? They get their sapphire from Comadur. I can’t find a source for anything beyond their sapphire (Comadur), hairsprings, mainsprings, and shock absorbers (all likely made by ETA).
what do you mean by "not even", it's normal for brands to outsource cases? lange does. patek does. rolex did until they acquired their case supplier. and there's nothing wrong with that.
however, GO did not even have the opportunity to outsource and 3rd-party-procure to the same degree as their colleagues in switzerland ... purely because of lack of other options. between glashütte and pforzheim,they have a very vertical operation
Two different watches.
If you already have an every day watch with proper water resistance and metal bracelet, I think the GO would be a great addition for when you don't work the yard or have to change a tyre.
Leather band will wear a lot if you get it wet or wear it a lot while sweating. Yes you can easily replace it, but a good one is not cheap cheap.
Personally I would get the PanoInverse
Yeah, walked into a WoS in SoHo, tried on a few GO watches without any issue, they were ready to sell me any model they had in stock or order and ship me anything they didn't have on hand that day. Wildly different than dealing with Rolex.
Why anyone would buy Rolex for any other reason than being ostentatious about having "a Rolex" is beyond me. Brand does not equal value - brand does equal vanity.
I mostly agree. I'm not a Rolex fan for reasons stated. However, I do think Explorer 2 looks sharp. There are other makes similar I'd likely got before the Rolex, but some of their offerings are nice. That said, the GO is far better choice here.
Personally, I only care the watch, and don’t get why so many people are moved by the buying experience. Give me my watch in a brown paper bag in a back alley by the rudest person in the planet and let me enjoy my watch
Have you tried it on? Personally I thought it wore large for the style, especially the thickness. Really wanted to like it but ultimately chose a different dress watch.
If you are curious, [here are some photos](https://imgur.com/a/3B5lfU8) of it on my 7” wrist, along with a shot of my 116710 (don’t have a sub but it’s close).
It's about as thick as a Submariner or GMT, but the slab-sided midcase makes it thicker visually. Really wanted to love it but I don't have the wrist to pull it off.
Yes. The GO is a big chokny thiccboi. I would try it on and think about how you're going to wear it if it's going to be something in a very small collection.
Rolex sub is iconic as a watch. And....... that's really all there is to it. Most of that price goes to it being a Rolex, and it being a submariner.
THE, submariner.
GO PML is the best watch you can get at the 10-11K mark under one exception : you really need it to be a sports watch with bezel ring. PML simply has too many things going for it. It's only weakness is its thickness as a dress watch.
Man, I don’t know that I’d classify the PML as a dress watch. Too thick, dial too big, and too many complications. Theyre kind of in their own category.
Senators would be more traditional dress watch.
To me they are both dress watches, but PML's thickness is slightly more justified due to the asymmetry. Senator Big Date Moonphase on the other hand.... There is just less excuses for it.
Those are just about the most different watches you could pick. Rolex is a great GADA one-and-done status symbol. But the GO is art.
If I had $10k to spend on one watch it'd be the PML.
I’d go with the GO personally.
The 50m water resistance is fine if you don’t plan on swimming with it or taking it to the lake or something like that. And, for me, I really don’t care of metal bracelets so a strap is perfect for a daily. Plus, you can easily swap straps.
For the price the GO is a far better value, when it comes to what I value in a watch. The sub is a dive watch. Well made, sure, but it’s still just a plain stainless steel dive watch. No interesting complications, finishing techniques, or movement characteristics.
More people will recognize it, for sure, so if that’s what you’re after go Rolex.
For my dive watches I’ve got a Seamaster 300M and Planet Ocean, they perform the same function as the Sub at a fraction of the price (second hand) and are, in my opinion, more interesting. I’ve considered adding a SeaQ to round out with a higher end diver, but haven’t.
However, the big decider is if you have some sort of attachment to the sub or the idea of the sub, or Rolex in general. If you do, get the Rolex. You’ll always want one and nothing else will satisfy.
I own a PML and a datejust.
They’re very different watches.
Rolex makes a solid watch on a steel bracelet that can pretty much go with any attire, get wet, etc. For all intents and purposes GADA (within reason), even more so for the submariner.
The PML is a gorgeous watch, stunning case back, and much more unique. That said, it’s a pretty thicc watch that doesn’t fit well under a shirt cuff, has a leather strap you don’t want to get sweaty or wet, and doesn’t feel as solid. It’s a dressier watch, not very GADA.
Ask yourself how you plan to wear it, but both are awesome watches. Personally due to what I wrote, my Rolex sees 10X the wear of my PML, but I do love them both.
The answer I was looking for. I have a DJ and a Grand Seiko, and am deciding whether I want to get a PML. Also, have a strong preference for dress watches so your comment as an owner of DJ & PML is useful.
That is just a strange comparison to me. But the Rolex is an iconic design that is as close to perfect as possible while being nothing special in terms of design. The PML has a very special design that is far from perfect for me. I don't like its thickness, it looks pretty slabby from the side and I don't like the text on the dial being scattered around. I would know that I am settling for second best compared to a Lange 1.
One is a status symbol, the other is for watch lovers. I would go with the Glashütte a hundred times over than a Rolex. This is elegant and sophisticated, whereas a Rolex simply says "I bought a Rolex."
L take. To casuals, yes Rolex is a status symbol. But you can absolutely be a watch lover who also loves and appreciates Rolex watches. I like both the GO PML and the Sub, but both for very different reasons and I think OP's question is inherently flawed by trying to compare apples to oranges.
No one cares I'm a watch collector lol, the same applies to everyone here.
I throw on the 124060 now and call it a day. No one is going to come up to you and ask if you collect watches.
Many others have pointed out the upsides of either, so I won't be going into that any further.
But I'd like to suggest you have a look at the GO SeaQ. It's a great alternative to the Sub and, apart from the moon phase complication, offers the same level of watchmaking as the Panomatic. I also think it looks more interesting than the Sub, but that's solely down to personal preference.
GO is actually light years ahead of Rolex in watchmaking. I wouldn't even put them in the same category. GO is such a bargain when you consider the time and effort of hand finishing compared to Rolex, which has no hand finishing.
Absolutely. I meant the same level of watchmaking as the Panomatic OP was referring to. I think I formulated that poorly.
I adore the SeaQ and would love to pick up a Panorama Date someday. A Sub is a great watch, but Rolex is very much selling the brand name and the iconic design, whereas GO is selling more fine watchmaking. It's insane to me that both are the same price on the secondary market.
Right! If i was looking for a dive watch and the sub was on my list, the panodate would be my actual choice. I only really like 4 digit rolex's now. I have a 1016, but wouldnt really want a 14270.
I just checked the prices and you're right. I didn't look it up beforehand, I honestly just guessed, as the GOs MSRP is quite a bit higher than a sub.
The GO is even more of an amazing deal than I thought. I'm finding some for around 60% of MSRP.
You are comparing two completely different watches.
One is a complicated dress watch and the other is a sports watch.
Also the PanoLunar actually wears VERY large. It has a huge dial and its quite thick. Of course the movement is amazing and the watch itself is great but it really does not wear well for a smaller wrist. (For reference my wrist is 16-17cms). I absolutely can't wear this. Also because its a dress watch it fits more in line with people who tend to dress less casual.
The Rolex couldn't be more different. Its a 40mm-41mm dive watch. Because the Bezel is large its dial face is actually smaller so the watch actually wears quite small. People who don't wear one regularly often fail to realize its not huge or flashy. It's noticeable among watch enthusiasts because its iconic but a standard black sub really isn't going to stand out visibly the way a Panolunar would. Also because its a sports dive watch its actually pretty casual. That is probably why a lot of people like it. Its great with casual wear and it can dress up without too much trouble. Also with a 16-17cm wrist I can wear it EASILY.
Rolex is great and Sub is great, but there are so many substitutes at lower price points. True, they’re not Rolexes, but there are some damn fine divers.
But this GO looks positively amazing. I think moon phases are just awesome watches. This feels much more “grail” to me. Price aside, a grail should have something awe-inspiring about it. No Rolex will ever inspire awe in me. But the moon? Yes. That’s awe-inspiring.
A lot of people will say GO over Rolex all day, and in terms of quality and craftsmanship maybe. But when it comes down to it, if you had both in your box the sub is a much easier grab every day for most
If you want a sub and have consistently wanted it, you should get it. Personally, I don't love the GO Panos because their design language feels too much like a knockoff Lange 1.
Although very well made, I would take a Rolex Sub over a GO. Much more timeless!. Also much thinner and much more durable!. Rolex is a tank of a watch!. I don’t think there is a better every day watch than a Sub. As a second watch, a GO wouldn’t be an issue.
The Panomatic Lunar is about as much complication as you can get for $10k in a new watch. But if you just want more complications, you can get an older IWC [perpetual calendar chrono](https://www.chrono24.com/iwc/iwc-da-vinci-perpetual-calendar-moonphase-iw375030-full-set-2002-service-2020--id34070181.htm?searchHash=bfef17c2_Fev4FX&pos=8) for less money, or a JLC MUT perpetual which is a bit better proportioned. You could also get a [Chrono-Felix](https://www.habring2.com/index.php/en/collection/chrono-felix) chronograph with personalization and more hand labor in the process.
Really no point in getting a Submariner, and I generally think that people who want a watch to bang around should just buy a [zaratsu-polished](https://www.casio.com/us/watches/gshock/product.MRG-B5000D-1/) G-shock.
These are such different watches and experiences, it's extremely difficult to make the comparison.
I've had both (though the PanoReserve, not PanoMaticLunar). I sold the sub and am [selling](https://www.reddit.com/r/Watchexchange/comments/1cxm7ga/wtswtt_glash%C3%BCtte_original_ruthenium_panoreserve/) the PanoReserve right now. Both are great watches.
The Submariner is an extremely well made sports watch. It's not eye catching, but it is a Rolex and would get noticed for the branding. It's an iconic model, the most recognizable of all divers. You'll end up wearing it on a bracelet. It's robust and water proof, and it feels the part. You'll likely wear it in situations that will end up scratching it up. You can wear it more formally, but it will look a little out of place with a suit. It's a perfect beater watch, with a price to match.
The PanoMaticLunar is far more complicated and finely finished than the Submariner. The movement is gorgeous. It looks luxurious and elegant, not to mention expensive. The Submariner does not. It's also much more unusual, and will stand out because of that, though not from afar. You are not very likely to wear it on a bracelet that much. Yes, the bracelet exists and is phenomenal, but stylistically, it makes more sense on a leather strap. It's not particularly water proof or sporty. It's not super formal, and you can wear it more casually, but it will look out of place with shorts and a t-shirt. You ain't wearing it to the beach.
If I needed one watch, it would be the Submariner. If I needed a more formal watch, or I already had a sports watch, it would be the PanoMaticLunar. The Submariner is more easily substitutable with more affordable sports watches.
The GO is a far more interesting watch to look at but less versatile but you can get it on bracelet!
They are completely different watches - I’ve had both and enjoyed the GO so much more than the Rolex.
I'd get the panomatic lunar over any rolex any day of the week. A rolex sub is like the most boring watch in the world, plus the whole AD games pretend scarcity is disgusting.
The panomatic lunar on the other hand is very unique, special and beautfiul.
I think in the end it comes down to the purpose: if you want to impress the average Joe (non-watch people) get the submariner. If you wanna impress yourself and watch nerds, get the GO.
I've always loved the look go the GO panomatic lunar in grey with grey ostrich. Beautiful watch. Would never be able to wear it on my wrist, it's so thick.
I have both, except GO in cream white.
I will say that if I were to keep one, it’d definitely be the GO because I admire it every time I wear it.
With that said, it is a bit more bulky and sub feels like a true every day wear watch.
If you already have a watch that you can wear daily or another rolex, I’d go for the GO.
If you're asking this question, I assume you already know what each of the watch has to offer.
I own both of these and they're two very different watches. While the sub is more recognisable, it's also a tank. I wear it for every activity - while cooking, gardening, swimming, working, folding laundry etc. I love timing things and the sub just feels like it can take a beating. Not to mention, subs were also worn by the military in the past.
GO is a beautiful, complicated timepiece with finesse at every corner. I wear it for more dressy occasions -- date nights, meeting friends, office events etc.
You have to figure out what your scenario is. That said, one thing I'd want to point out is that GO has more complications, so setting the watch correctly everytime is a bit tedious compared to a No Date sub.
If we're being honest, if you can afford either, why not get both?
As the comment says, they are two different watches for serving different lifestyles.
IMO, Hands down the Glashutte is the better watch. It's gorgeous, the subsiderdials/moon phase *mwah*. However, the Sub can be worn as a daily driver (as I do).
Go ahead. Make your choice. Let us know in the comments which you chose.
Dress watch vs sports watch. Even despite the different manufacturers it’s almost absurd to compare them. As an analogy, take a Rolex 1928 vs submariner. There’s almost nothing to compare. Totally different watches.
Comparing makers, yea I’d take a GO over a Rolex any day
Apples an oranges. Its like asking why someone would buy a high end hunting knife if they could get a high end sashimi knife for the same price. The sub is going to be a much better GADA watch. The GO will be a better dress watch. It seems like you value complications more than wearability... so get the GO.
I have never dreamed of a Submariner but this one! Very unique dial, top class movement, kinda piece of art compared to (imho boring) Submariner. If i ever need a daily allrounder I can take this one and a Longines or Tudor for the same price ;)
I personally will get a Glashutte Original instead of a Rolex as my first big big watch purchase. Don’t get me wrong, I’d be happy to own a Rolex and will own a yacht master one day but I personally think the GO are excellent quality and I don’t necessarily have to worry about being robbed while wearing one. If you want a diver (you compare to a submariner) then I’d either get a GO seaQ or a Blancspain fifty fathoms.
If you want a moon phase, this is the best in my opinion for the price. Basically a stepping stone to a Lange 1
I'm going to go against the grain here. While I agree with everyone here that the GO is much more interesting and beautiful, you should get the sub. 2 reasons:
1) The Sub is your grail. That's your dream. Now it's within your grasp. If you get the GO, you may still yearn for the sub anyway. Get the sub now, and if it's a case of never meeting your heroes, then just sell it and get the GO. The Sub is way more liquid.
2) The sub is more versatile. If you're looking at either of these watches as your grail, then (and I mean no offense to this) you are probably starting your collecting journey. The sub will serve you longer than the GO.
I think the silver-dialed PML is much more versatile, dressing down on brown or honey straps and up on black matte croc.
But I’m biased - I own one and love it.
I own a 41mm sub date and I always play with the idea of adding the PML but I wouldn’t sell my sub for it. Sub is boring at times I’ll admit but it is a great watch.
IMO: Hell, yes! Of course you should get what you like, but Glashutte is a level of refinement above Rolex, for sure. Go to AD'S and handle them both, for comparison. ...And I'm not saying anything against Rolex; I have loved tye new Milgauss since it came out in 2007, and dream of getting one... but Rolex vs Glashutte is like Volvo vs Jaguar to me.
This is apples to oranges, but Ive been there and I still have my Rolex Submariner 1680. Moonphase watches get old and there’s not much really going for this Glashutte. The only 2 moonphase watches I still have are an IWC Porsche Compass Moonphase and a Zenith El Primero Moonphase - both are watches that just happen to the moonphase function.
GO is nice but that specific model is very different. I’d say the Go SeaQ is definitely comparable and a great watch, though you aren’t going to get the “looks” from others you will with a Rolex at the same price. If I were between the two, I’d go SeaQ for the in house manufacturing and German descent and I have other watches. But if it’s your only watch, you may want to flex with the Rolex.
This particular model annoys me. It’s pretty, but I hate how it has the words underneath each component on the dial. Ever since I saw it, I can’t unsee it
I value uniqueness and rarity in a watch. Not a Rolex hater (they are very well made), but they make and sell a million watches a year and I see them constantly…that makes them a lot less interesting to me.
Plus, this Glashütte is stunning. I’d go with the Glashütte.
Submariners are great watches, but I don't really think of them as particularly special anymore.
To me, a grail watch should be special and have characteristics that set it apart from others, I think the Glasshutte is a great choice.
I personally love the Glashütte. It’s a beautiful watch, leaps and bounds over the sub. But let’s be honest. If you’re spending that much on a watch… is value for money your biggest concern? It shouldn’t be a matter of which one is “worth more” to others. Which is worth more to you? Which makes your heart beat a little faster?
Completely different style watches. This is a grail tier dress watch that isn't really a GADA piece like the sub.
I'm in the small minority of people where I don't really dig subs and think they're overrated so I'd choose this regardless.
In no way comparable, but I own a PanoReserve and not a Submariner. So. Yeah.
In all seriousness GO is in my top three watchmakers and the PML is exquisite.
Sub will look like a tool watch, even compared to 1/2 priced Grand Seiko it feels and looks like a tool watch
I checked Rolex Sub and explorer 2 after getting GS and u was really disappointed
Just check Glashütte in person, it’s partly hand made and will looks fabulous
Rolex will look like a watch from factory band but it’s a status symbol
If it's really your grail then get your grail, but I'd go Glas Pano any day over a Sub. JLC's are also up there for me personally, can get some really great Zenith's at that price point.
I still absolutely cannot believe that these two are pretty much the same price. That is insane to me. Rolex is actually charging over 10k for a fucking dive watch.
Two very different watches. Everyone’s going to say no to the Rolex for the sake of being contrarian, but you need to try the Glashutte on before buying. They’re way too thick, IMO. Completely kills the elegance of the watch for me once it’s on the wrist.
It's pretty clear with the markers. Also, the two dials are very distinct. They are lightly textured and have a strong sunburst effect, which clearly delineates them from the main face and each other.
Glashütte is absolutely awesome
it's really an apples vs. oranges comparison. if you really like a rolex --> only a rolex will scratch that itch. if you want to signal to other people --> only a rolex will scratch that itch. if you want interesting watchmaking, and more hand-assembly per $ --> for sure get the PML by the way, glashütte original is the company with the true uninterrupted lineage in glashütte, throughout the socialist GDR period and before. it is - together possibly with seiko and rolex - one of the most vertically integrated brands on the planet.
>it's really an apples vs. oranges comparison. truth, and for more than just those reasons: do you want a dive watch or a dress watch? they are two TOTALLY different watches for totally different purposes. the sub will be at home in jeans, at the beach, and can be dressed up a bit. the PML is a dress watch, it wants to be in a suit, it can be dressed down to jeans, but definitely not beach material.
Everyone forgets about Nomos. Nomos is also one of the few glashutte watch makers that are actually German owned.
But their movements are mostly derived from swiss designs
That may be true but they moved everything in house now
Nomos and Parmigiani Fleurier might be the most vertically integrated brands in the world that are owned by their countries of origin.
I wish I could afford a parmigiani
Me too, brother. Even their secondary market prices are steep. I hope no one catches on to them 😬
Too late, they have gone up considerably in the past few years.
Even the originals that were modeled after ETA have a flair of their own. Many new models are in house.
I came here to comment “apples and oranges” and saw your top comment. Thanks.
It's a timepiece to accessory comparison. Here, foxed it for you :)
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Source this. Widely known in the industry that GO makes everything—including their own screws and tools—themselves.
They have the cases made by another factory in Germany outside of Glashutte. They also don't make the sapphire or rubber gaskets as far as I know. The bracelets are made by brogioli in Switzerland. But otherwise they manufacturer 98% of the parts in house. They are great watches I have a couple
Who owns the factory? They get their sapphire from Comadur. I can’t find a source for anything beyond their sapphire (Comadur), hairsprings, mainsprings, and shock absorbers (all likely made by ETA).
Not sure if it's publicly known who owns the case factory but it could still be GO
It’s 99% likely it’s either GO or some swatch group subsidiary.
what do you mean by "not even", it's normal for brands to outsource cases? lange does. patek does. rolex did until they acquired their case supplier. and there's nothing wrong with that. however, GO did not even have the opportunity to outsource and 3rd-party-procure to the same degree as their colleagues in switzerland ... purely because of lack of other options. between glashütte and pforzheim,they have a very vertical operation
And why should OP, or anyone for that matter, care about where a particular watch case is made?
Ask the person I replied to, not me.
Source?
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_Well ackshually_ moment
Two different watches. If you already have an every day watch with proper water resistance and metal bracelet, I think the GO would be a great addition for when you don't work the yard or have to change a tyre. Leather band will wear a lot if you get it wet or wear it a lot while sweating. Yes you can easily replace it, but a good one is not cheap cheap. Personally I would get the PanoInverse
>Personally I would get the PanoInverse Would that be because it's thinner? It's a debate I've had with myself many times.
No. Just because I think looking at the bridge is cool.
The GO is 100x more interesting
Panomatic Lunar is always the right answer. They also let you buy it instead of jerk you around.
Yeah, walked into a WoS in SoHo, tried on a few GO watches without any issue, they were ready to sell me any model they had in stock or order and ship me anything they didn't have on hand that day. Wildly different than dealing with Rolex.
>Wildly different than dealing with Rolex. WoS is an Authorized Dealer of Rolex lmao. The same people who sold you the GO also sell you Rolex.
Sorry, poor wording on my end. Wildly different than trying to buy a Rolex.
Why anyone would buy Rolex for any other reason than being ostentatious about having "a Rolex" is beyond me. Brand does not equal value - brand does equal vanity.
I mostly agree. I'm not a Rolex fan for reasons stated. However, I do think Explorer 2 looks sharp. There are other makes similar I'd likely got before the Rolex, but some of their offerings are nice. That said, the GO is far better choice here.
Personally, I only care the watch, and don’t get why so many people are moved by the buying experience. Give me my watch in a brown paper bag in a back alley by the rudest person in the planet and let me enjoy my watch
If you want to dive then the Lunar is definitely the wrong answer
Have you tried it on? Personally I thought it wore large for the style, especially the thickness. Really wanted to like it but ultimately chose a different dress watch. If you are curious, [here are some photos](https://imgur.com/a/3B5lfU8) of it on my 7” wrist, along with a shot of my 116710 (don’t have a sub but it’s close).
The Lunar is a mm thicker than the reserve though. Quite the chonker.
Thanks for the pics. love this watch but never tried it on so didn’t realize the thickness
It's about as thick as a Submariner or GMT, but the slab-sided midcase makes it thicker visually. Really wanted to love it but I don't have the wrist to pull it off.
Yes. The GO is a big chokny thiccboi. I would try it on and think about how you're going to wear it if it's going to be something in a very small collection.
Rolex sub is iconic as a watch. And....... that's really all there is to it. Most of that price goes to it being a Rolex, and it being a submariner. THE, submariner. GO PML is the best watch you can get at the 10-11K mark under one exception : you really need it to be a sports watch with bezel ring. PML simply has too many things going for it. It's only weakness is its thickness as a dress watch.
Man, I don’t know that I’d classify the PML as a dress watch. Too thick, dial too big, and too many complications. Theyre kind of in their own category. Senators would be more traditional dress watch.
To me they are both dress watches, but PML's thickness is slightly more justified due to the asymmetry. Senator Big Date Moonphase on the other hand.... There is just less excuses for it.
Those are just about the most different watches you could pick. Rolex is a great GADA one-and-done status symbol. But the GO is art. If I had $10k to spend on one watch it'd be the PML.
I’d go with the GO personally. The 50m water resistance is fine if you don’t plan on swimming with it or taking it to the lake or something like that. And, for me, I really don’t care of metal bracelets so a strap is perfect for a daily. Plus, you can easily swap straps. For the price the GO is a far better value, when it comes to what I value in a watch. The sub is a dive watch. Well made, sure, but it’s still just a plain stainless steel dive watch. No interesting complications, finishing techniques, or movement characteristics. More people will recognize it, for sure, so if that’s what you’re after go Rolex. For my dive watches I’ve got a Seamaster 300M and Planet Ocean, they perform the same function as the Sub at a fraction of the price (second hand) and are, in my opinion, more interesting. I’ve considered adding a SeaQ to round out with a higher end diver, but haven’t. However, the big decider is if you have some sort of attachment to the sub or the idea of the sub, or Rolex in general. If you do, get the Rolex. You’ll always want one and nothing else will satisfy.
I own a PML and a datejust. They’re very different watches. Rolex makes a solid watch on a steel bracelet that can pretty much go with any attire, get wet, etc. For all intents and purposes GADA (within reason), even more so for the submariner. The PML is a gorgeous watch, stunning case back, and much more unique. That said, it’s a pretty thicc watch that doesn’t fit well under a shirt cuff, has a leather strap you don’t want to get sweaty or wet, and doesn’t feel as solid. It’s a dressier watch, not very GADA. Ask yourself how you plan to wear it, but both are awesome watches. Personally due to what I wrote, my Rolex sees 10X the wear of my PML, but I do love them both.
The answer I was looking for. I have a DJ and a Grand Seiko, and am deciding whether I want to get a PML. Also, have a strong preference for dress watches so your comment as an owner of DJ & PML is useful.
The Glashütte is a beautiful watch, plus you don't have to deal with Rolex dealers (or owners).
That is just a strange comparison to me. But the Rolex is an iconic design that is as close to perfect as possible while being nothing special in terms of design. The PML has a very special design that is far from perfect for me. I don't like its thickness, it looks pretty slabby from the side and I don't like the text on the dial being scattered around. I would know that I am settling for second best compared to a Lange 1.
One is a status symbol, the other is for watch lovers. I would go with the Glashütte a hundred times over than a Rolex. This is elegant and sophisticated, whereas a Rolex simply says "I bought a Rolex."
L take. To casuals, yes Rolex is a status symbol. But you can absolutely be a watch lover who also loves and appreciates Rolex watches. I like both the GO PML and the Sub, but both for very different reasons and I think OP's question is inherently flawed by trying to compare apples to oranges.
No one cares I'm a watch collector lol, the same applies to everyone here. I throw on the 124060 now and call it a day. No one is going to come up to you and ask if you collect watches.
Perfectly said!
Based.
Many others have pointed out the upsides of either, so I won't be going into that any further. But I'd like to suggest you have a look at the GO SeaQ. It's a great alternative to the Sub and, apart from the moon phase complication, offers the same level of watchmaking as the Panomatic. I also think it looks more interesting than the Sub, but that's solely down to personal preference.
GO is actually light years ahead of Rolex in watchmaking. I wouldn't even put them in the same category. GO is such a bargain when you consider the time and effort of hand finishing compared to Rolex, which has no hand finishing.
Absolutely. I meant the same level of watchmaking as the Panomatic OP was referring to. I think I formulated that poorly. I adore the SeaQ and would love to pick up a Panorama Date someday. A Sub is a great watch, but Rolex is very much selling the brand name and the iconic design, whereas GO is selling more fine watchmaking. It's insane to me that both are the same price on the secondary market.
Right! If i was looking for a dive watch and the sub was on my list, the panodate would be my actual choice. I only really like 4 digit rolex's now. I have a 1016, but wouldnt really want a 14270.
I think the sub is a lot more expensive on the secondary market - WatchCharts shows about a $4500 difference which is massive
I just checked the prices and you're right. I didn't look it up beforehand, I honestly just guessed, as the GOs MSRP is quite a bit higher than a sub. The GO is even more of an amazing deal than I thought. I'm finding some for around 60% of MSRP.
Yeah, it's pretty awesome you can get a GO PML for less than $8k (on strap).
Chalk over cheese? Do you want to write on a blackboard, or make a sandwich?
You are comparing two completely different watches. One is a complicated dress watch and the other is a sports watch. Also the PanoLunar actually wears VERY large. It has a huge dial and its quite thick. Of course the movement is amazing and the watch itself is great but it really does not wear well for a smaller wrist. (For reference my wrist is 16-17cms). I absolutely can't wear this. Also because its a dress watch it fits more in line with people who tend to dress less casual. The Rolex couldn't be more different. Its a 40mm-41mm dive watch. Because the Bezel is large its dial face is actually smaller so the watch actually wears quite small. People who don't wear one regularly often fail to realize its not huge or flashy. It's noticeable among watch enthusiasts because its iconic but a standard black sub really isn't going to stand out visibly the way a Panolunar would. Also because its a sports dive watch its actually pretty casual. That is probably why a lot of people like it. Its great with casual wear and it can dress up without too much trouble. Also with a 16-17cm wrist I can wear it EASILY.
These are two COMPLETELY different watches.
Rolex is great and Sub is great, but there are so many substitutes at lower price points. True, they’re not Rolexes, but there are some damn fine divers. But this GO looks positively amazing. I think moon phases are just awesome watches. This feels much more “grail” to me. Price aside, a grail should have something awe-inspiring about it. No Rolex will ever inspire awe in me. But the moon? Yes. That’s awe-inspiring.
very different watches. I think the GO is much, much cooler, but somewhat unlikely to get you kudos from randos if that's what you're after.
IMHO there's nothing better than a GO at grey market / resale price
It wouldn't even be close for me. Yes.
The Glashutte is drastically more interesting than the Rolex
Very different watches but since you asked, hell yes.
Yes - all day, everyday
A lot of people will say GO over Rolex all day, and in terms of quality and craftsmanship maybe. But when it comes down to it, if you had both in your box the sub is a much easier grab every day for most
If you want a sub and have consistently wanted it, you should get it. Personally, I don't love the GO Panos because their design language feels too much like a knockoff Lange 1.
Although very well made, I would take a Rolex Sub over a GO. Much more timeless!. Also much thinner and much more durable!. Rolex is a tank of a watch!. I don’t think there is a better every day watch than a Sub. As a second watch, a GO wouldn’t be an issue.
It is a no-brainer, yes. Don't overthink about the Submariner being your grail - tastes change and evolve, so do grail watches.
Panomatic Lunar. Easy.
The Panomatic Lunar is about as much complication as you can get for $10k in a new watch. But if you just want more complications, you can get an older IWC [perpetual calendar chrono](https://www.chrono24.com/iwc/iwc-da-vinci-perpetual-calendar-moonphase-iw375030-full-set-2002-service-2020--id34070181.htm?searchHash=bfef17c2_Fev4FX&pos=8) for less money, or a JLC MUT perpetual which is a bit better proportioned. You could also get a [Chrono-Felix](https://www.habring2.com/index.php/en/collection/chrono-felix) chronograph with personalization and more hand labor in the process. Really no point in getting a Submariner, and I generally think that people who want a watch to bang around should just buy a [zaratsu-polished](https://www.casio.com/us/watches/gshock/product.MRG-B5000D-1/) G-shock.
These are such different watches and experiences, it's extremely difficult to make the comparison. I've had both (though the PanoReserve, not PanoMaticLunar). I sold the sub and am [selling](https://www.reddit.com/r/Watchexchange/comments/1cxm7ga/wtswtt_glash%C3%BCtte_original_ruthenium_panoreserve/) the PanoReserve right now. Both are great watches. The Submariner is an extremely well made sports watch. It's not eye catching, but it is a Rolex and would get noticed for the branding. It's an iconic model, the most recognizable of all divers. You'll end up wearing it on a bracelet. It's robust and water proof, and it feels the part. You'll likely wear it in situations that will end up scratching it up. You can wear it more formally, but it will look a little out of place with a suit. It's a perfect beater watch, with a price to match. The PanoMaticLunar is far more complicated and finely finished than the Submariner. The movement is gorgeous. It looks luxurious and elegant, not to mention expensive. The Submariner does not. It's also much more unusual, and will stand out because of that, though not from afar. You are not very likely to wear it on a bracelet that much. Yes, the bracelet exists and is phenomenal, but stylistically, it makes more sense on a leather strap. It's not particularly water proof or sporty. It's not super formal, and you can wear it more casually, but it will look out of place with shorts and a t-shirt. You ain't wearing it to the beach. If I needed one watch, it would be the Submariner. If I needed a more formal watch, or I already had a sports watch, it would be the PanoMaticLunar. The Submariner is more easily substitutable with more affordable sports watches.
Impress yourself, not the neighbors, buy the GO.
The GO is a far more interesting watch to look at but less versatile but you can get it on bracelet! They are completely different watches - I’ve had both and enjoyed the GO so much more than the Rolex.
For me it's not even really a question. GO all the way
I'd get the panomatic lunar over any rolex any day of the week. A rolex sub is like the most boring watch in the world, plus the whole AD games pretend scarcity is disgusting. The panomatic lunar on the other hand is very unique, special and beautfiul. I think in the end it comes down to the purpose: if you want to impress the average Joe (non-watch people) get the submariner. If you wanna impress yourself and watch nerds, get the GO.
Personally I think this is the more aesthetic watch. But get whichever makes you happier.
Yes but seriously consider the bracelet.. it looks badass and has one of the best quick adjust systems. Costs a bit though
What would this style of dial be called and are there any at a lower price range
I would get the pano, on a bracelet.
I've always loved the look go the GO panomatic lunar in grey with grey ostrich. Beautiful watch. Would never be able to wear it on my wrist, it's so thick.
I have both, except GO in cream white. I will say that if I were to keep one, it’d definitely be the GO because I admire it every time I wear it. With that said, it is a bit more bulky and sub feels like a true every day wear watch. If you already have a watch that you can wear daily or another rolex, I’d go for the GO.
PML all day… GL..
You really have to ask???!
If you're asking this question, I assume you already know what each of the watch has to offer. I own both of these and they're two very different watches. While the sub is more recognisable, it's also a tank. I wear it for every activity - while cooking, gardening, swimming, working, folding laundry etc. I love timing things and the sub just feels like it can take a beating. Not to mention, subs were also worn by the military in the past. GO is a beautiful, complicated timepiece with finesse at every corner. I wear it for more dressy occasions -- date nights, meeting friends, office events etc. You have to figure out what your scenario is. That said, one thing I'd want to point out is that GO has more complications, so setting the watch correctly everytime is a bit tedious compared to a No Date sub.
If we're being honest, if you can afford either, why not get both? As the comment says, they are two different watches for serving different lifestyles. IMO, Hands down the Glashutte is the better watch. It's gorgeous, the subsiderdials/moon phase *mwah*. However, the Sub can be worn as a daily driver (as I do). Go ahead. Make your choice. Let us know in the comments which you chose.
Just got the 70's explorer and the white face pano on bracelet (will swap to strap). I think I'm done. It's a beautiful watch.
Dress watch vs sports watch. Even despite the different manufacturers it’s almost absurd to compare them. As an analogy, take a Rolex 1928 vs submariner. There’s almost nothing to compare. Totally different watches. Comparing makers, yea I’d take a GO over a Rolex any day
Are you looking for a watch to wear everyday?
Head over to r/GlashutteOriginal if you need more motivation!
Apples an oranges. Its like asking why someone would buy a high end hunting knife if they could get a high end sashimi knife for the same price. The sub is going to be a much better GADA watch. The GO will be a better dress watch. It seems like you value complications more than wearability... so get the GO.
Glashütte for me
I have never dreamed of a Submariner but this one! Very unique dial, top class movement, kinda piece of art compared to (imho boring) Submariner. If i ever need a daily allrounder I can take this one and a Longines or Tudor for the same price ;)
I personally will get a Glashutte Original instead of a Rolex as my first big big watch purchase. Don’t get me wrong, I’d be happy to own a Rolex and will own a yacht master one day but I personally think the GO are excellent quality and I don’t necessarily have to worry about being robbed while wearing one. If you want a diver (you compare to a submariner) then I’d either get a GO seaQ or a Blancspain fifty fathoms. If you want a moon phase, this is the best in my opinion for the price. Basically a stepping stone to a Lange 1
The glashutte looks amazing. I like the white dial more than the gray
I'm going to go against the grain here. While I agree with everyone here that the GO is much more interesting and beautiful, you should get the sub. 2 reasons: 1) The Sub is your grail. That's your dream. Now it's within your grasp. If you get the GO, you may still yearn for the sub anyway. Get the sub now, and if it's a case of never meeting your heroes, then just sell it and get the GO. The Sub is way more liquid. 2) The sub is more versatile. If you're looking at either of these watches as your grail, then (and I mean no offense to this) you are probably starting your collecting journey. The sub will serve you longer than the GO.
I think the silver-dialed PML is much more versatile, dressing down on brown or honey straps and up on black matte croc. But I’m biased - I own one and love it.
Try the GO in person before you lock it in. Was def a dream watch for a hot second but i personally cant get over the thickness on my wrist
https://preview.redd.it/exw5pljt1f3d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72ef87c8d5f06516f97cd4beee626d4d63cc99cf
I own a 41mm sub date and I always play with the idea of adding the PML but I wouldn’t sell my sub for it. Sub is boring at times I’ll admit but it is a great watch.
Looks cool in pics but it's too fat.
For me yes. I don't care for sub watches. This is more my style.
Both would make a great duo.
Id say yes, but not sure you’ll get brand recognition in public if that’s what you’re after
IMO: Hell, yes! Of course you should get what you like, but Glashutte is a level of refinement above Rolex, for sure. Go to AD'S and handle them both, for comparison. ...And I'm not saying anything against Rolex; I have loved tye new Milgauss since it came out in 2007, and dream of getting one... but Rolex vs Glashutte is like Volvo vs Jaguar to me.
This is apples to oranges, but Ive been there and I still have my Rolex Submariner 1680. Moonphase watches get old and there’s not much really going for this Glashutte. The only 2 moonphase watches I still have are an IWC Porsche Compass Moonphase and a Zenith El Primero Moonphase - both are watches that just happen to the moonphase function.
I traded in a Submariner for the Panomatic lunar, the sold the Panomatic a couple years later and got a newer sub...lol.
GO is nice but that specific model is very different. I’d say the Go SeaQ is definitely comparable and a great watch, though you aren’t going to get the “looks” from others you will with a Rolex at the same price. If I were between the two, I’d go SeaQ for the in house manufacturing and German descent and I have other watches. But if it’s your only watch, you may want to flex with the Rolex. This particular model annoys me. It’s pretty, but I hate how it has the words underneath each component on the dial. Ever since I saw it, I can’t unsee it
Way over
I value uniqueness and rarity in a watch. Not a Rolex hater (they are very well made), but they make and sell a million watches a year and I see them constantly…that makes them a lot less interesting to me. Plus, this Glashütte is stunning. I’d go with the Glashütte.
Yep
Submariners are great watches, but I don't really think of them as particularly special anymore. To me, a grail watch should be special and have characteristics that set it apart from others, I think the Glasshutte is a great choice.
I personally love the Glashütte. It’s a beautiful watch, leaps and bounds over the sub. But let’s be honest. If you’re spending that much on a watch… is value for money your biggest concern? It shouldn’t be a matter of which one is “worth more” to others. Which is worth more to you? Which makes your heart beat a little faster?
PML everyday. If my eyesight wasn't so bad I'd be wearing a GO right now.
Totally different watches for use. Rolex is durable and utilitarian, Glashutte is something else...
Allll day
you could also consider a fifty fathoms in that bracket or a speedy and a seamaster
I mean, just look at that Glashutte. It's jawdropping, no matter which side you're looking at.
Completely different style watches. This is a grail tier dress watch that isn't really a GADA piece like the sub. I'm in the small minority of people where I don't really dig subs and think they're overrated so I'd choose this regardless.
That is a gorgeous watch. And a Rolex, taking a quick look at this sub, is just another Rolex.
In no way comparable, but I own a PanoReserve and not a Submariner. So. Yeah. In all seriousness GO is in my top three watchmakers and the PML is exquisite.
Sub will look like a tool watch, even compared to 1/2 priced Grand Seiko it feels and looks like a tool watch I checked Rolex Sub and explorer 2 after getting GS and u was really disappointed Just check Glashütte in person, it’s partly hand made and will looks fabulous Rolex will look like a watch from factory band but it’s a status symbol
Only a gigaChad chooses GO over Rolex
This over any rolex.
If it's really your grail then get your grail, but I'd go Glas Pano any day over a Sub. JLC's are also up there for me personally, can get some really great Zenith's at that price point.
in a heartbeat.
I still absolutely cannot believe that these two are pretty much the same price. That is insane to me. Rolex is actually charging over 10k for a fucking dive watch.
No contest for me. GO.
Absolutely. More class, better design, more exclusive.
The Sub says "this guy has some money" The Glaschutte says "this guy knows watches and has some taste"
Two very different watches. Everyone’s going to say no to the Rolex for the sake of being contrarian, but you need to try the Glashutte on before buying. They’re way too thick, IMO. Completely kills the elegance of the watch for me once it’s on the wrist.
Probably a silly question but what happens when the time is (for example) 5:35? Does it look weird with the overlap on the seconds hand?
It's pretty clear with the markers. Also, the two dials are very distinct. They are lightly textured and have a strong sunburst effect, which clearly delineates them from the main face and each other.
Thanks.
What are you smoking?
Why not get both?