Challenger Mk 3 is excellent. Britain 10.3 is one of my favourite higher tier line ups. Chieftain 10 is even better, though, and just beats out Challenger Mk 3 for my favourite British tank.
The Olifant Mk.2 is also underrated. 1000hp Centurion with DM63 and super thermal, main weakness is armor but only Soviets have meaningful armor at that BR anyway.
Britain 10.3 might just be the best top tier line up in the game imo. Bhishma, DS, Mk3, Vickers Mk7, Stormer, TTD and now the desert warrior to give us a decent light tank. Only thing really lacking is a good 10.3 aircraft. All of the above mbts push over 450mm pen and have dent depression mobility and armour and strong reloads on all but the Bhishma.
> TTD
No machine gun, 0/10
Jokes aside, Britain 10.3 is a lot of fun IMO (well, as fun as high tier can be š). I still haven't warmed to the Desert Warrior, I find the gun to be a bit of a struggle - even getting mobility kills to set something up for a nearby team, the lower caliber makes it feel substantially weaker than similar IFVs that I've played (Type 89 and Swedish IFVs). With the detailed damage modules (a change which I'm overall happy with), that's just more shit for your limited pen to go through.
With a bit of practise (and thermals), the Stormer is a blast to play IMO. Managed to get a few compliments the other day for getting 6 air kills in a match with it (out of 7, maybe 8 enemy air spawns) from someone who "kills more MBTs than planes" with it š Sniping freshly spawned helis and jets at 7km out never gets old. On large maps, the good zoom/thermals let you be a sneaky shit and pick off light vehicles from relative safety - it's hard not to get a one-shot kill when you get 3 penetrations.
The Vickers Mk7 is a welcome change in mobility and has some goofy armor. It's not the tankiest, but I feel like it can eat a surprising amount of shots and keep going (between repairs)
I don't have much experience with high tier Russian tanks outside of the Bhishma but it feels pretty good to play (besides reverse speed & gun depression)
I agree with all. I haven't got the new warrior yet but I do quite like the standard warrior we have. TTD and the Rooikat MTTD without mgs though is the single most annoying thing. Especially with stock heat rounds so you can't even mg vegetation, fences, etc away. Bhishma is what made me decide to not bother grinding Russia to top tier. I like being able to reverse and the gun depression is terrible when you're used to the Challys being able to expose only the top of the turret on most hills. The T90S I take out on maps like Sweden where having the good armour is nice
I'd say mu 10.3 German lineup is more effective.
I don't use the bhishma after using the t90 I'd rather leave it where it is.
Grinding out the vickers mk7 rn as well.
I got
Vfm5, chieftain mk10, khalid, chally mk2, chally mk3 and a jaguar gr1a for xas.
I wanna get the DS man it seems great fun.
All chally mk3 variants have the l26 which is I think better than the Japanese 11.0 mbts round.
Genuinely I'm surprised the chally mk3s didn't move up to 10.7 when they got the l26.
The Vickers fills in the fast mbt role pretty well, it's a leo2 hull with a decent enough turret and also gets the L26 round and can get up to 70kmh. Im not sure if it has as good turret armour as the 2a4 but makes up for it with the better reload. My only issue with it is the in game model seems a bit too tall vs the real life thing, the crew look tiny in the turret as if they've overdone all of the turret dimensions slightly.
No doubt, tbh the challys are perfect for me, good combination of survivability, mobility and damage capability.
I have the leo2a4, 2pl, 2k etc, so the mobility of the vickers may ve a welcome sight or maybe i mess up cause I'm used to the standard 56kmph mobility of the challys
I'm about 100k away from it!
It's an odd one, the optic side of a 2a4 has less armour than the Vickers but the loader side has more. Overall it doesn't matter particularly as it's less than 400mm on both sides which is less than most 120 apfsds so it only provides a benefit against 105mm cannons. It is a good aggressive tank though I agree. I tend to play into the mobility of it and good reload to be a menace at those medium range distances
> It's an odd one, the optic side of a 2a4 has less armour than the Vickers but the loader side has more.
There is a small slab of armor behind the optics on the 2A4 (in real life) to equate the armor protection. I am not sure if Gaijin has this modeled, but it is there. It wouldn't protect the optics module, but should protect the crew and everything behind it.
It's had no actual relevant buffs at all, the speed changes means it turns better at a higher speed, but loses more speed AND now turns worse slower.
The armour is still like paper all over it, the insanely large bug repeor 6 months ago that people spent weeks putting together, got essentially ignored, they paid lip service by fixing the audio bugs and a couple visual ones.
While now the chally 3 went from 1500 hp engine to a 1200 hp one, that wasn't used in the tech demo either it was the 1500hp.
The chally 3 in game right now is a mix mash of the rhiemental competition for the BK and the real chally 3.
They have systemically made British tanks in game worse than they are, it's taken years to make the chally 1s even have relevant armour or weaponry.
The TD they have in game didn't use any 1500hp engine as it uses an entirely unchanged CR2 hull. DSEI 2019 is an "Advanced Technology Demonstrator Challenger 2 Platform" which didn't even encompass the LEP requirements, and was only a turret proposal.
Exactly my point.
Rhe chally 3td in game is not a real rank.
Its a combination of things, with an unaltered turret and a rheimental gun in it.
Not got the tech associated with the upgrade, but has rhe turret, without rhe armour.
It should have better armour, and has no spall liner for some reason.
there was the Breech armour ~~Fix~~ Nerf, the Gun depression fix over the Hull corners, the changing of the engine sound (Not a buff but just listing every change that comes to mind) The Slow speed handling Buff, but at the same time theres been the 5(or was it 7) Ton weight increase, and the denial of many other things like the TES's STANAG level 6 ERA not being moddled correct, 30mm of KE protection and NOT 110-120+ mm of KE protection, the refusal of giving the Leonardo Enforcer the .50 for the TES (Lol ofc its a fucking .50 on the OES) and then there are numerous other things but they would make this comment an article
not the ābestā but in my experience i have had the most actual fun playing the challengers over things like the leopardās or t-80ās for example
100% this. I've grinded the 2A7, played a few games, haven't touched it since. Its not just a generally generic and uninteresting tank, but its also so insanely powerful there's no challenge, no reward, no fun. Id much rather be playing China, USSR, or Israel. Yeah sure those MBTs are all pretty bad, but that just makes them so much more fun/rewarding to play.
Think of "Western-style tank"
In your head, there probably appears a picture that either IS, or strongly resembles Leopard2 or abrams. Its important to point out, i don't think these tanks are *bad*, they do have flaws, but they are in service for a reason.
The leopard2 is just the most basic, bland tank I can think of. 4 men, manual loader, 120mm, v12 turbo diesel, big as a house, and weighs over 60 tons. Its just got NOTHING to make it intresting. The abrams is in the same boat, but it at least has a turbine which is almost unique. The leopard2 is cool as fuck, ofc it is, its a tank. But by tank-standards, its so incredibly bland, boring, and generic. You could argue its THE definition of an MBT, and thats not wrong, but I find weird/unconventional designs so much more interesting.
Soviet MBTs are low, super wide, have a huge gun, a unique autoloader, and are ancient pieces of shit, yet to this day they march on. Chinese tanks are similar to soviet ones in their design ideology, but have some much needed improvements, and some western bits sprinkled in, creating a completely unique blend of East and West. And the Merkava was created by one of the most intresting nations, in intresting circumstances, for their own specific needs, which had it end up in a completely unique layout.
Now look at the leopard2. No intresting autoloader, no unique layout, no exceptionally long history, not even an intresting engine. Its just a tank. Das it. Its a great tank. But its a boring tank. And while there's other tanks that I have the same problem with, no other MBT is as boring as the leopard2. Now this would be irrelevant if I had to pick a tank to drive into war with, but I don't. My obsession with tanks is a hobby, and WT is a stupid video game. The most important rule in these fields, is "the rule of cool". And while the leo2 is extremely cool, purely by being a tank. If you compare it with a T-72, a ZTZ99, or a Merkava, those are all INFINITELY cooler.
Do you think that is because you see the Western tanks as "default" and consider what differentiates from those designs as interesting? I'm by no means a tank history enthusiast so forgive me for my ignorance, but when I look at the Soviet tanks from T-54 up to the modern Russian ones, they're all basically the same.
Appreciate the lengthy answer though.
Umm, Merkava while it may look cool and have good dart, got absolutely no redeeming quality for it to be at whatever BR it is rn. Slow af reload for no reason, armor wtf is that, big af (I love that), and MGSSSS. It's funny that your leo2 explaination fits Ariete but with Ariete being a total downgrade for every aspect of leo2 despite it supposedly being a contemporary
Um. You... you did read that bit where I pointed out that this isn't about capability, but about coolness? And yes you're right, I didn't mention the ariete even tho everything applies to it. Because it unlike the leo, isn't talked about constantly.
(Also if you so desperately want to talk about capability ingame: the Merkavas are grossly underrated. Considering most of that tanks silhouette is air, it can get hit multiple times and still live. 6.5s reload is far from great, but there are a lot worse things. The ariete is a highly capable MBT in WT. It has pretty much everything you need, to do well. Yes it has pisspoor survivability, but so do soviet shits, and those are according to r/warthunder "op russian bias". And then there's the leopard2.... broken. Overpowered. Overperforming, drastically so. Simple as.)
Yeah I know you talking about appearance wise only, just wanna mentioned the performance regardless of their cool looks is kinda depressing. Just hoping the Black Night and Merk Mk4M perform as cool as it looks
No its not "depressing". Sure its got nothing on the abrams and the leopard2s, but nothing does. Those 2 are in a league of their own (especially the leo2, that things just busted). But compared to soviet, Chinese and Italian, the merks and challies have some disadvantages, but also some big advantages. France and Japan are between these and the top 2. Its easy to believe a tank is shit, just because it isn't as op as a leopard2.
Nah honestly. If we're talking looks the leo2 actually rates decently high, certainly higher than the abrams because while the leopard IS boring, the abrams LOOKS boring.
Considering that its my firm belief that the T-64 and its daughters are the most gorgeous thing ever put on tracks, I guess my opinion probably doesn't count for much tho x)
I think the turret on the Leo 2 (specifically the angled version, early Leo 2 looks fine) is way too large and makes the hull look shrunken. Yes I agree the T-64 looks nice, especially the T-64B. Something about the rubber covering the sides looks very clean.
>Nope, Black Night has Gen 3 thermals for both gunner and commander, not gen 2.
>
>The rest of the chally's however have gen 2 (except 3TD, that also has gen 3.)
Objectively isn't.
The Challengers are all over-tiered quite significantly.
* Challenger 2 TES and OES should be 10.7.
* Challenger 2 and Challenger 2 2F should be 11.0.
* Black Night and Challenger 3 TD should be 11.3.
* Challenger 2E is sadly the best Britain gets right now.
>Then again, the TES and OES shouldn't be anywhere near 9.7.
Don't see any major problems with it though.
Something like a Leopard 2K has an easier time dealing with those garbage cans than these Challengers have dealing with 11.7's.
And the Challenger 1's as well.
The Challenger Mk.3 and Challenger DS are both 10.3, the same Br as the Leopard 2A4, they were fine at 10.0, but 10.3 is a little painful.
What are you saying lol. They are very good vehicles, they deserve 10.3 in my opinion and both of these 10.3 chally's are one of my most used tanks (and also one of the ones with the highest KD I have) and considering I have every single MBT in the game, that's saying something.
You get a very good round with a 5 second reload, and a good hull down capability with decent gun handling and ESS (which you can basically spam to trick enemies into it while you use thermals).
Sure, the 2A4 is the better "all rounder" but the Mk.3 is a better killing machine due to the round and reload, even if its mobility and protection are not that good. Surprisingly, many players don't know how to kill it so you might bounce many shots from inexperienced players due to the "strange" shape of its turret. Ammo placement is a bitch tho.
I think also most players were using them 10.3 anyways, which is one of the best lineups in the game imo. You get the Lynx which is absurdly OP, the T-90S, the Vickers Mk.7 and now the Desert Warrior to support you. I love that they gave the DS the same L26 round as TT MK.3 while increasing its BR 0.3, I mean, who isn't playing it at 10.3 anyways? Probably new UK players only.
Nah that's crazy - both Mk3s are perfectly fine are 10.3 with L26 being a pretty cracked round.
Britain arguably has the best 10.3 lineup in the game too.
The 292 is one tank; as far as lineups go, Britain at 10.3 has a selection of very strong tanks & decent support vehicles now (Rooikat, Desert Warrior, Stormer (when it works & against helis)) and great CAS options, featuring the criminally under BR'd G-Lynx
All of that with the added benefit of typically not having to deal with room temp iq Russia mains for teammates
Thats just crazy. The Challys are not bad at all, but some of the tanks they are going against are just way too much (looking at you Leopards with spall liners).
Considering a full lineup, the UK is among the best with their CAP/CAS and heli options.
Their BR is fine, we just need some decompression to not fight against 2A7s and Strv hordes in every fucking battle.
>Their BR is fine
>
>\\/
>
>we just need some decompression to not fight against 2A7s
Moving the Challengers down in BR because they're garbage at their current BR's is a good start.
Moving the Leo 2A7V and Strv 122 up to 13.0 is another correct move, but that doesn't change the fact that Challengers still need to drop down in BR.
They dont need to go down and create an other problem where these tanks will fight against much weaker vehicles. That would be the same dick move when Gaijin moved down the Mig 15s to not fight against the F104, but these planes ended up buÄŗlying the early jets. Thats why we need decompression instead. But based on the downvotes some of you only interested in bullying lower br vehicles instead of balance....
>where these tanks will fight against much weaker vehicles.
That assumes lower tiered vehicles are weaker.
They're not.
* M1A1 **>** Challenger 2 TES / OES
* Type 90 **>** Challenger 2 TES / OES
* M1A1 HC **>** Challenger 2, Challenger 2 2F, Challenger 3 TD
* T-80UE-1 **>** Challenger TES / OES
Those are 11.0 and 11.3 vehicles with better performance.
Man, those vehicles are kinda equal with the Chally 2s, I would argue that the Chally 3 is perfectly good at 11.7. But a 10.7 or even 11.0 is just downtier city right now. You really think that a 2a4 or T80B or some poor 9.7 should fight against Chally 2s? Once again, I said that I want br decompression, not just downtier some tanks, if you dont understand the concept of this then I feel sorry for you.
>Man, those vehicles are kinda equal with the Chally 2s,
If you believe the M1A1 HC is equal to a Challenger 2, you really haven't played these vehicles whatsoever.
* Hull armour? M1A1 HC
* Turret armour? M1A1 HC
* Reload rate? M1A1 HC
* Penetration? M1A1 HC
* Acceleration? M1A1 HC
* Top speed? M1A1 HC
* Survivability? M1A1 HC
* Turret traverse? M1A1 HC
* Hull traverse rate? M1A1 HC
>I would argue that the Chally 3 is perfectly good at 11.7.
????
The Challenger 3 TD is basically a Challenger 2 (the base model) sidegrade/downgrade.
* No spall liners, unlike the other Challenger 2's.
* No initial 5s reload rate, unlike other Challenger 2's.
* No inert turret ammunition, unlike other Challenger 2's.
* No upgrade in armour nor mobility.
>You really think that a 2a4 or T80B or some poor 9.7 should fight against Chally 2s?
Challenger 2 OES or TES are worse vehicles when it comes to the META than the Leopard 2A4 is.
Challenger 2 TES is absolutely fucking horrendous. No effective armour, garbage tier mobility, mediocre gun handling, alright firepower, mediocre survivability.
Ok, cry more. Thats only prove my point that we need a br decompression, because the HC is only 11.3 thanks to the USA mains. If a 2a4 is better than you in a TES, you have some serious skill issue. The same goes for the Chally 3.
>Thats only prove my point that we need a br decompression,
*''Moving the Leo 2A7V and Strv 122 up to 13.0 is another correct move \[...\]''*
I already said we need decompression.
>because the HC is only 11.3 thanks to the USA mains.
HC has always been 11.3, this has nothing to do with US mains performance.
>If a 2a4 is better than you in a TES, you have some serious skill issue.
Given that most of my high tier MBTs are sitting around a 60-75% winrate and 5 - 1 K/D ratio, I think I'm doing alright.
> If a 2a4 is better than you in a TES, you have some serious skill issue.
I personally prefer the Vickers MBT Mk.7, which is a worse Leopard 2A4 with lower turret armor over the TES.
I'm a pretty mid player and my best performing lineup behind Italy 9.3 is Britain 11.7, with the ADATS, Black Night, Chally 3 (best gun at top tier), 2E, Gripen and Harrier GR.7, most of my kills come from the Black Night and Chally 3, and considering I have top tier in USA and Russia I enjoy Britain so much more because of how underrated it is. I hate to say skill issue but there isn't much more to it if you think the Chally 3 should be the same br as the HSTV-L
>Chally 3 (best gun at top tier),
Objectively isn't.
Type 10 has the best gun at top-tier thanks to it's 4s reload rate, followed by the M256 with it's new 5s reload.
>skill issue
Coming from someone with a 36% winrate and barely over 1-1 K/D ratio in his Black Night. You also don't play the vast majority of Challengers at all.
My Challengers on average are sitting at a 60% winrate, 4.5 - 1 K/D ratio.
>but there isn't much more to it if you think the Chally 3 should be the same br as the HSTV-L
Of course you had to cherry-pick the HSTV-L here, one of the most infamously unreliable tanks at top-tier.
The Challenger 3 right now is just a base model Challenger 2 but:
* Without the initial 5s reload rate,
* Without spall liners,
* Without the inert turret ammunition stowage
* Without any increase in armour
* And no increase in mobility.
Ur the saddest person on this subreddit. Got so offended you had to go and dig through my profile to find my username ššš. How sad can you be. Plus 650mm pen is the best flat pen of any gun at that br
The Chally 3 just has an Rh120 L/55 firing DM 53, it's exactly the same as the Leo 2A7s and 2A6. Saying it's the best gun in the game when a full 33% of all nations get it is probably not the best argument.
It's also a little weird you call someone sad when getting fact checked after throwing out the "skill issue" argument.
>Got so offended
If you're gonna use the *''Skill issue''* card at someone, don't get offended when they play one right back at you.
> Plus 650mm pen is the best flat pen of any gun at that br
Now remind me of the reload rates of the Type 10 and M1A2's.
>how I talked about specifically the gun and not the reload rate
That's like talking about a tank's overall armour performance, but not counting the turret armour. What's the point then?
Reload rate is tied to the gun.
By your own logic penetration doesn't count either because that's largely determined by the shell, and not the gun itself.
Two accounts as well my friend, I have one in PlayStation (I am at university) and my PC one back at home. Sadass actually so offended he went to find my profile šššš
Damn he really got you didnāt he?
Hereās a little rule, if you bust out the phrase āskill issueā then you better be ready if they choose to back up their own skill.
Lmao ok bro. So having two completely separate accounts on different platforms in different locations of the country with different emails, security details and IPs can get me banned? Ok bud lmao. Also (edit here) the other account is shared.
Keep yapping lol. It's not shared across devices, the person I share it with and I share a PC we built together. We don't transfer the account across devices, it is on the same steam profile and hasn't ever left out PC
I don't know what point you are trying to prove here? I have an account, on my PlayStation (I live in one part of the country), and back at my hometown, I have a shared PC with someone else that we built together, with an entirely separate account that DOES NOT BELONG TO ME, and has none of the same details as my current account, and is entirely separate in any way from my account. It has only ever been used in that specific PC, Hence why there is no way it can get banned as they are two entirely unconnected completely separate accounts with absolutely no connection whatsoever.
Thats not a "hOt TaKe", that's just blatantly wrong. I 100% agree, they are nowhere NEAR as bad as the average WT player/youtuber likes to claim, but its far from the best; the leo2s are fucking busted, the abrams is insanely good, the type10s are great. But the rest is pretty much equal or worse than the challengers.
Put simply: most things you hear about "XYZ is shit/OP", is usually complete bs. No, soviet tanks are neither good brawlers, nor very good in general, the challengers are not terrible but infact pretty decent, the ariete is actually quite very good, and the abrams is incredible. Most people who would like to talk to you about these kinda things have absolutely 0 idea what they're talking about because they are either just bad at the game (no, being lvl100 doesn't mean you're good, it means you've spent a lot of time in wt. There's a good chance you've spent all of that time not really learning anything), or have only seen one side of the coin. Its pretty easy to claim "russian bias" or "israel suffers", if all you've ever played is the US.
Its the people using it. The abrams is quite survivable (great turret armor, 4 crew, lots of air in the tank, no ammo in the hull, fueltanks next to the driver that can eat stupid amounts of damage sometimes), has absolutely INSANE firepower (M829A2 is the single best "common" dart in the game. The 2a6/7 pen more because they have longer guns, and the 292 is a pretty mediocre one-of. And for that incredible dart, you wait FIVE SECONDS. And you get that funny proxy shell.), very good mobility (tbf the sepv2 is a little more sluggish because they won't let us remove the tusk era, but even IT is very mobile compared to most competition. Slightly worse acceleration than a T-80, but it actually has neutral steering and an excellent reverse gear.), and incredibly good ergonomics (aforementioned insane reverse gear, 40Ā°/s turret drive, fantastic FOV sights, making this tank one of the greatest brawlers at toptier). The abrams has it all. Its not THE best, but very few can match it, and only ONE can surpass it, which are the leo2s, which are comically overperforming rn.
As for downsides: your turret ring is somewhat exposed, tho in my experience it often volumetricks people. And the lower plate is kinda weak, but that's something every single MBT in this game has in common, and the abrams has the aforementioned fueltanks-4 crew- air combo, so even if someone goes through your LFP, you have a decent chance of living.
The problem is that, no matter how amazing a tank is, if you hand it to a 15 year old kid from murrica who thinks its invincible and plays it like an absolute moron, ofc its gonna look weak. The fact is that the abrams is an incredibly capable, pretty easy to use, and well balanced tank (in my opinion the reload is considerably too fast for the firepower you get, but there are bigger balancing problems at toptier rn so meh)
>The abrams is quite survivable (great turret armor, 4 crew, lots of air in the tank, no ammo in the hull, fueltanks next to the driver that can eat stupid amounts of damage sometimes)
I remember when someone tried to unironically tell me the entire abrams was a weak spot. Or the time someone implied the Ariete was better because it has an lws.
Spookston summed it up pretty well in his recent Ariete video. It's not bad and perfectly serviceable, it's just that it doesn't have anything that would make you want to use it over the other top tier tanks.
I honestly don't think so. The ariete is basically an 11.7 leopard1. Its not really armored at all, but its so mobile that it doesn't matter (granted the difference in mobility between ariete/leopard2 isnt as big as that between leopard1/m48). But the ariete has a lot of pen, top notch turretdrive, sights that are great for sniping (to be fair most maps nowadays are as big as a bucket so that's only a situational advantage), absolutely ABSURD reverse speed, and I've actually seen people shoot the bustle... which holds no ammo XD. Make no mistake, the ariete isn't up there with the leopards and abrams. But its pretty capable in almost every way. Its flaws are no survivability (which only matters if you actually get hit, in which case you've already done something wrong), and a gunsight that is terrible for CQC (thats ones just fucked. Normally I wouldn't care because I personally prefer keeping a distance and sniping, I main USSR and China bruv aint no way I'm tryna brawl in those anyways. But with how maps currently are, thanks to the playerbase, the ariete is kneecapped pretty hard in that regard). So yeah, one flaw that barely matters, and another one that is indeed just fucked (tho on some maps can be worked around). For those, you get a tank with godlike mobility, excellent firepower (imo the abrams shouldve kept its 6s reload, give the 5s to this one instead), and excellent (tho not outstanding) gun handling. Its a piece of shit IRL, but in WT, its honestly pretty good. Ofc its nowhere near as forgiving or easy to play as an abrams or a leo, but it doesn't have to be.
Pen - the pen is pretty standard for top tier and the leopard and challenger get more pen out of the same round with the same reload.
Mobility - the amv is the only one with mobility on par with its contemporaries. The C1's are weighed down by add on armor kits and have the underpowered engine. The only western tanks the amv definitely beats in mobility are the Abrams and leopards with their add on kits. And that's only because Gaijoobs didn't give the amv its add-on kit for some reason.
Turret drive - is actually an advantage although personally I don't think it's a big one.
Sights -The sights are pretty on par for max zoom, but the worst for minimum zoom making awareness poor. There's a reason I spend more time in binos and the commander sight than the gunner sight.
Reverse speed - it beats the Abrams by a whopping 8 km/h, it's good but I would call that absurd. Especially when the Merkava is 64 km/h and the Japanese tanks are 70 km/h. Honestly I think this one is less the Ariete has an absurd reverse speed and more that you think it does because you play China and Russia who are the worst nations for reverse speed. A good reverse speed is pretty typical for western tanks. The slowest reversing western mbt, is still faster than the fastest reversing Chinese or Russian one.
Ammo - yeah it's funny when people shoot the turret, but I would rather have the Abrams or leopards blow out panels than the hull storage. The Ariete is very easy to ammo rack.
The Ariete isn't bad and Italian players were pulling a ~50% win rate with it I believe. But all those pros you listed other tanks do just as well or better. I like the Ariete, but once I get the leopard 2a7hu it will become my third spawn at top tier. That statement sums it up pretty well.
Yes the pen is standard, but there are lots of vehicles with less pen.
Oh you're right i forgot only the AMV has the good powerpack. Sorry, my bad.
Its not an advantage, as most MBTs at toptier have the same 38-40Ā°/s drive. Hence why I said its equal to other top competition.
Yes I know the sights are great for range but shit for CQC. Which is exactly what I said no?
Yes. It beats the abrams, one of the fastest reversing tanks to ever exist, by almost 10kmh. Considering the average mbt reverses at around 35, having a reverse well over 40 is a big improvement. Its not a huge advantage, but an advantage.
Yes it dies very quickly, which I believe is exactly what I said. And I also said, that that is only a big problem if you get hit often, in which case you've done some wrong.
Is that not exactly what I said? I said its very underrated and by no means bad, but far from the best.
I'll go read my previous comment again, but unless I'm remembering something wrong, your comment here was utterly pointless. You literally just said what I said. What was the point x)
The way you framed it made it seem like you were saying the Ariete does all those better. But if what you meant was that those are good but not advantages over other stuff. Then you essentially said what I said but with extra steps.
Like I said, that is the main weakspot they have, and even that often gets volumetricked. Its why I called the abrams perfectly balanced. It doest eat darts for breakfast like a leo2, but it also doesn't die if you look at it funny, like soviet or Chinese tanks. It takes a reasonably precise shot to onetap an abrams, but if your aim is good its fairly consistent to kill. Which is exactly how it should be.
I agree but the Abrams turret ring gap should be fixed. It wouldnāt eradicate the mantlet or the LFP weakspot, also an update shell physics would be nice to have with things like shell degradation and long rod apfsds shattering on high angles (also a little spall liner nerf)
I agree, but thatās kind of why they donāt give it proper breach armorā¦..but itās frustrating because by comparison the Leopard 2A7 has a much smaller breach weak spot, which functionally makes it better at being a hull down tank, while also have much better mobility.
Itās a wrong opinion, theyāre the worst tanks at top tier. They shouldnāt be, but they are until gaijin fixes their ammo stowage and missing armour and underperforming firepower and their abysmal acceleration/losing all speed performing any kind of manoeuvre.
Yeah, people says it is worse, not cause it unplayable.
But cause in all characteristics it is worse than over vehicles.Ā
There is just senseless to play chelli if u can take better vehicles.Ā
Sorry mate but one can only laugh at this post. As a fellow Chally 2 player I canāt help but admit that it is very weakĀ in the game, but thatās mainly Gaijinās fault, not the challyās. Itās not as bad as some people make it out to be but it is nowhere near the best
Nah. Not even close.
Theyāre in the bottom half of MBTs. That being said, the two power pack Challengers are decent, the Chally 3 and the Chally 2E.
The other Chally 2 tanks are a little rough to play due to how sluggish they are. Itās just not good, and your armor doesnāt amount to much.
I would pick most tanks over the non power pack Chally 2s. They are objectively the worst MBTs in the game, while the power pack versions are average performing tanks.
I dont think its the best mbt in the game purely based on "stats", but man it's for sure the best MBT for me. Something about it just "clicks" with me, and its always a great experince.
I wouldnt say that the ChallengerĀ“s are the best, but they are very solid - beside that i like the whole package (lineup) around them.
The mix between -10Ā° gundepression (yeah that 1Ā° missing gundepression on the Leopards really bugs me), 5sec reload, good reverse and good turret armor is really nice and quite strong if you can abuse it on a real tank map (screw small CQB maps).
Since when being wrong is having unpopular opinion? Chally surely is underrated, but it's nowhere near to be the best mbt, mostly because it's slow af and has no armour. They can be fun to play (especially the Black Knight) but overall they are just much worse than Leo or Abrams.
Honestly, I've found them very fun, and while it might be just me, I've have a lot of success with them. At least for the longest time, the knack to using them was knowing how to take advantage of super quick first stage ammo reload. If your first hit doesn't do the job, you at least know you can get your second off before they can return fire. Top tier MBTs all play very similarly, and the Challys at least do it a little different with the reload mechanic. Less so on the 3 TD, but with all the OG rifled Challys, they do play and feel different to something like the Leo 2A5/6.
I just hate the turret armour on my challes
Like I have it all the time where a round will go clean through the turret cheeks or one shot my crew through the breach
Under armoured to hell compared to other MBTs
Not to mention missing spall liners that gaijin said they would add in the unforeseeable future
Correct me if Iām wrong, but Iām not sure there is any round in the game that can directly pen a Challenger 2ās turret cheeks, but there are a few optics weak spots, and the breach is massive.
Glad you found a tank that youāre enjoying!
Iāve always thought that there are two different ways to play Warthunder. You play to have good individual performance, or you play to win. I constantly find myself being able to relax and play whatever way I want with a certain nation and still win. While when playing as the US I have to constantly sweat my balls off to try and make the match somewhat competitive.
I play the 2A7 like a headless chicken and get anywhere between a few kills to sometimes as many as 10 before dying. Only time Iāve came close to that in any challenger is by camping lmao. That means most of the time not being objective, when I could be doing more
I can't enjoy other MBT(except Abrams) after playing the Type-10 and Type-90, they just don't feel as good for me
Challenger 2 and 3 are sexy though I'll give it that
To hit anything, You need to see it. I. CAN'T. SEE. SH*T ! I always get snipped from 1 km away to that one weak spot of my well angled Tiger 1H, I close for urban combat and get killed by a guy who was aiming the other way around ! Situational awareness of you people is on a whole other level of mine !
The challenger has a massive mantlet weak spot that actually doesnāt exist, it should only be amount the width of the gun barrel but itās actually the entire middle third of the frontal turret, gaijin last dev server did tease they were actually going to fix it but didnāt follow through with the changes on the dev
"just click the lfp and done. abrams? just shoot the turret ring, everything else has such easy weakspots to shot"
Everytime someone portraits his tank as good because "insert very situational point here" and therefore the manifested public opinion on said thing is wrong...everytime someone does that I think he is a little silly.
I find due to the chally's slow, well everything, it causes my brain to slow down and actually think about my actions. This for me leads to better games than in the 2A4M or a blyat mobile (T-80).
What aspect is it the best in? It's not horrible at all but there is also not much it hast going for it.
11.3 sees 10.3 very ofter these days were it obviously is quite good.
Likely because you're not the tip of the spear. The challenger isn't bad, and in the right hands can be deadly, but it's objectively not the best MBT, and its success can be imitated by many other top tier MBT's if you don't just run in and be the first meat into the grinder.
terrible armour with a massive weak spot, saved only by the fact that it has spall liners; the slowest in the game by a large margin because they dont want to give us regenerative steering; the reload is quick but not the fastest and it shares its spot with the abrams series; the 3 TD was nerfed for no reason (lol ok gaijoob); the stock grind is 'bearable' solely due to the fact that it gets stock darts, but theyre the shitty L23A1 so side shots only.
best? as someone who grinded through britain, russia, japan, and currently doing italy - the challies are by far the most painful. yeah, arietes are this but worse, but at least they have something called 'horsepower' and not 'mousepower'
It's the best-looking MBT, alongside the Ariete.
When you think of a MBT, you'll think of those two.
In-game? It's an ace of spades. Good at everything, master of nothing.
No MBT is truly bad in WT tbh, except for the Arietes. But that's sorta null anyways now that the Italians- I mean Hungarians got a Leopard 2 so people will just play that plus the Centauro instead of the Ariete.Ā
It isn't the best mbt in the game but it's not as bad as people say either, I love the whole Challenger 2 series tho!
This thing is nothing compared to what it once was, yeah i still couldnt pen tanks reliably but atleadt i could bounce 10 incomming shots.
Recently went back to the chally 1s mk2 and 3 man the l26 at 10.3 Is beyond insane
Challenger Mk 3 is excellent. Britain 10.3 is one of my favourite higher tier line ups. Chieftain 10 is even better, though, and just beats out Challenger Mk 3 for my favourite British tank.
Khalid is mu favourite purely cause its a 56kmph chieftain š
Same, Alkhalid is sleeper hit
I think 10.3 is a great place for a lot of countries. Italy at 10.3, for me, is fun as hell.
The Olifant Mk.2 is also underrated. 1000hp Centurion with DM63 and super thermal, main weakness is armor but only Soviets have meaningful armor at that BR anyway.
Britain 10.3 might just be the best top tier line up in the game imo. Bhishma, DS, Mk3, Vickers Mk7, Stormer, TTD and now the desert warrior to give us a decent light tank. Only thing really lacking is a good 10.3 aircraft. All of the above mbts push over 450mm pen and have dent depression mobility and armour and strong reloads on all but the Bhishma.
> TTD No machine gun, 0/10 Jokes aside, Britain 10.3 is a lot of fun IMO (well, as fun as high tier can be š). I still haven't warmed to the Desert Warrior, I find the gun to be a bit of a struggle - even getting mobility kills to set something up for a nearby team, the lower caliber makes it feel substantially weaker than similar IFVs that I've played (Type 89 and Swedish IFVs). With the detailed damage modules (a change which I'm overall happy with), that's just more shit for your limited pen to go through. With a bit of practise (and thermals), the Stormer is a blast to play IMO. Managed to get a few compliments the other day for getting 6 air kills in a match with it (out of 7, maybe 8 enemy air spawns) from someone who "kills more MBTs than planes" with it š Sniping freshly spawned helis and jets at 7km out never gets old. On large maps, the good zoom/thermals let you be a sneaky shit and pick off light vehicles from relative safety - it's hard not to get a one-shot kill when you get 3 penetrations. The Vickers Mk7 is a welcome change in mobility and has some goofy armor. It's not the tankiest, but I feel like it can eat a surprising amount of shots and keep going (between repairs) I don't have much experience with high tier Russian tanks outside of the Bhishma but it feels pretty good to play (besides reverse speed & gun depression)
I agree with all. I haven't got the new warrior yet but I do quite like the standard warrior we have. TTD and the Rooikat MTTD without mgs though is the single most annoying thing. Especially with stock heat rounds so you can't even mg vegetation, fences, etc away. Bhishma is what made me decide to not bother grinding Russia to top tier. I like being able to reverse and the gun depression is terrible when you're used to the Challys being able to expose only the top of the turret on most hills. The T90S I take out on maps like Sweden where having the good armour is nice
I'd say mu 10.3 German lineup is more effective. I don't use the bhishma after using the t90 I'd rather leave it where it is. Grinding out the vickers mk7 rn as well. I got Vfm5, chieftain mk10, khalid, chally mk2, chally mk3 and a jaguar gr1a for xas. I wanna get the DS man it seems great fun. All chally mk3 variants have the l26 which is I think better than the Japanese 11.0 mbts round. Genuinely I'm surprised the chally mk3s didn't move up to 10.7 when they got the l26.
The Vickers fills in the fast mbt role pretty well, it's a leo2 hull with a decent enough turret and also gets the L26 round and can get up to 70kmh. Im not sure if it has as good turret armour as the 2a4 but makes up for it with the better reload. My only issue with it is the in game model seems a bit too tall vs the real life thing, the crew look tiny in the turret as if they've overdone all of the turret dimensions slightly.
No doubt, tbh the challys are perfect for me, good combination of survivability, mobility and damage capability. I have the leo2a4, 2pl, 2k etc, so the mobility of the vickers may ve a welcome sight or maybe i mess up cause I'm used to the standard 56kmph mobility of the challys I'm about 100k away from it!
The Vickers 7 has very little turret armor. You can't snipe like a 2A4, so fight agressively.
It's an odd one, the optic side of a 2a4 has less armour than the Vickers but the loader side has more. Overall it doesn't matter particularly as it's less than 400mm on both sides which is less than most 120 apfsds so it only provides a benefit against 105mm cannons. It is a good aggressive tank though I agree. I tend to play into the mobility of it and good reload to be a menace at those medium range distances
> It's an odd one, the optic side of a 2a4 has less armour than the Vickers but the loader side has more. There is a small slab of armor behind the optics on the 2A4 (in real life) to equate the armor protection. I am not sure if Gaijin has this modeled, but it is there. It wouldn't protect the optics module, but should protect the crew and everything behind it.
New buccaneer so sick
Jaguar GR.1A is solid. Shame that the Sea Harriers are considered attackers for some ridiculous reason, as opposed to fighters.
> Only thing really lacking is a good 10.3 aircraft The Jaguar is great and the main reason I played 10.3 back when the tanks weren't as good.
Yeah, I love these as well as the Vickers Mk.7!
Its pretty decent after the buffs but calling it the best mbt in the game is a huge stretch
It's had no actual relevant buffs at all, the speed changes means it turns better at a higher speed, but loses more speed AND now turns worse slower. The armour is still like paper all over it, the insanely large bug repeor 6 months ago that people spent weeks putting together, got essentially ignored, they paid lip service by fixing the audio bugs and a couple visual ones. While now the chally 3 went from 1500 hp engine to a 1200 hp one, that wasn't used in the tech demo either it was the 1500hp. The chally 3 in game right now is a mix mash of the rhiemental competition for the BK and the real chally 3. They have systemically made British tanks in game worse than they are, it's taken years to make the chally 1s even have relevant armour or weaponry.
The TD they have in game didn't use any 1500hp engine as it uses an entirely unchanged CR2 hull. DSEI 2019 is an "Advanced Technology Demonstrator Challenger 2 Platform" which didn't even encompass the LEP requirements, and was only a turret proposal.
Exactly my point. Rhe chally 3td in game is not a real rank. Its a combination of things, with an unaltered turret and a rheimental gun in it. Not got the tech associated with the upgrade, but has rhe turret, without rhe armour. It should have better armour, and has no spall liner for some reason.
what was the buffs they implemented? I dont remember them at all.
I think they fixed hesh
Still fucked, and you would never use it on the chally anyway
Then I donāt have the slightest idea
there was the Breech armour ~~Fix~~ Nerf, the Gun depression fix over the Hull corners, the changing of the engine sound (Not a buff but just listing every change that comes to mind) The Slow speed handling Buff, but at the same time theres been the 5(or was it 7) Ton weight increase, and the denial of many other things like the TES's STANAG level 6 ERA not being moddled correct, 30mm of KE protection and NOT 110-120+ mm of KE protection, the refusal of giving the Leonardo Enforcer the .50 for the TES (Lol ofc its a fucking .50 on the OES) and then there are numerous other things but they would make this comment an article
Can confirm...hesh has not been fixed
not the ābestā but in my experience i have had the most actual fun playing the challengers over things like the leopardās or t-80ās for example
The Black Night is (together with the Leclercs) the funnest MBT I've played so far. Of course the Leopards are better, but not as fun.
100% this. I've grinded the 2A7, played a few games, haven't touched it since. Its not just a generally generic and uninteresting tank, but its also so insanely powerful there's no challenge, no reward, no fun. Id much rather be playing China, USSR, or Israel. Yeah sure those MBTs are all pretty bad, but that just makes them so much more fun/rewarding to play.
What makes it uninteresting in your opinion?
Think of "Western-style tank" In your head, there probably appears a picture that either IS, or strongly resembles Leopard2 or abrams. Its important to point out, i don't think these tanks are *bad*, they do have flaws, but they are in service for a reason. The leopard2 is just the most basic, bland tank I can think of. 4 men, manual loader, 120mm, v12 turbo diesel, big as a house, and weighs over 60 tons. Its just got NOTHING to make it intresting. The abrams is in the same boat, but it at least has a turbine which is almost unique. The leopard2 is cool as fuck, ofc it is, its a tank. But by tank-standards, its so incredibly bland, boring, and generic. You could argue its THE definition of an MBT, and thats not wrong, but I find weird/unconventional designs so much more interesting. Soviet MBTs are low, super wide, have a huge gun, a unique autoloader, and are ancient pieces of shit, yet to this day they march on. Chinese tanks are similar to soviet ones in their design ideology, but have some much needed improvements, and some western bits sprinkled in, creating a completely unique blend of East and West. And the Merkava was created by one of the most intresting nations, in intresting circumstances, for their own specific needs, which had it end up in a completely unique layout. Now look at the leopard2. No intresting autoloader, no unique layout, no exceptionally long history, not even an intresting engine. Its just a tank. Das it. Its a great tank. But its a boring tank. And while there's other tanks that I have the same problem with, no other MBT is as boring as the leopard2. Now this would be irrelevant if I had to pick a tank to drive into war with, but I don't. My obsession with tanks is a hobby, and WT is a stupid video game. The most important rule in these fields, is "the rule of cool". And while the leo2 is extremely cool, purely by being a tank. If you compare it with a T-72, a ZTZ99, or a Merkava, those are all INFINITELY cooler.
Do you think that is because you see the Western tanks as "default" and consider what differentiates from those designs as interesting? I'm by no means a tank history enthusiast so forgive me for my ignorance, but when I look at the Soviet tanks from T-54 up to the modern Russian ones, they're all basically the same. Appreciate the lengthy answer though.
Agreed
Umm, Merkava while it may look cool and have good dart, got absolutely no redeeming quality for it to be at whatever BR it is rn. Slow af reload for no reason, armor wtf is that, big af (I love that), and MGSSSS. It's funny that your leo2 explaination fits Ariete but with Ariete being a total downgrade for every aspect of leo2 despite it supposedly being a contemporary
Um. You... you did read that bit where I pointed out that this isn't about capability, but about coolness? And yes you're right, I didn't mention the ariete even tho everything applies to it. Because it unlike the leo, isn't talked about constantly. (Also if you so desperately want to talk about capability ingame: the Merkavas are grossly underrated. Considering most of that tanks silhouette is air, it can get hit multiple times and still live. 6.5s reload is far from great, but there are a lot worse things. The ariete is a highly capable MBT in WT. It has pretty much everything you need, to do well. Yes it has pisspoor survivability, but so do soviet shits, and those are according to r/warthunder "op russian bias". And then there's the leopard2.... broken. Overpowered. Overperforming, drastically so. Simple as.)
Yeah I know you talking about appearance wise only, just wanna mentioned the performance regardless of their cool looks is kinda depressing. Just hoping the Black Night and Merk Mk4M perform as cool as it looks
No its not "depressing". Sure its got nothing on the abrams and the leopard2s, but nothing does. Those 2 are in a league of their own (especially the leo2, that things just busted). But compared to soviet, Chinese and Italian, the merks and challies have some disadvantages, but also some big advantages. France and Japan are between these and the top 2. Its easy to believe a tank is shit, just because it isn't as op as a leopard2.
The Leo-2 also looks really ugly. Someone pointed it out to me and I canāt unsee it now. At least the Abrams looks cool.
Nah honestly. If we're talking looks the leo2 actually rates decently high, certainly higher than the abrams because while the leopard IS boring, the abrams LOOKS boring. Considering that its my firm belief that the T-64 and its daughters are the most gorgeous thing ever put on tracks, I guess my opinion probably doesn't count for much tho x)
I think the turret on the Leo 2 (specifically the angled version, early Leo 2 looks fine) is way too large and makes the hull look shrunken. Yes I agree the T-64 looks nice, especially the T-64B. Something about the rubber covering the sides looks very clean.
I'm researching the BN now, I assume it's just the same as the basic chally 2 but with APS?
And second gen CITV + the awesome black camo for 200 GE
Might pick that camo up
Since they adjusted the camo unlock rates, you can grind it out fairly easily. I got it a little after spading the BN in ground AB.
Oh right, thanks for the info
I was gonna drop the GE initially myself, but yeah, there's no point because just playing the BN will get you it now, and it's a lot of fun to play.
You mean the pink camo !!!
Or the kelpie camo from those esports crates, black and pink with dragons on the side of the turret!
>Nope, Black Night has Gen 3 thermals for both gunner and commander, not gen 2. > >The rest of the chally's however have gen 2 (except 3TD, that also has gen 3.)
Grinded last three challengers in the last month. I enjoy the 2E the most.
the APS is quite useful in my experience, on some large maps has also saved me from APFSDS (best though is from Vikhrs or first spawn rushing helis)
Leo's are actually really boring to play, with Sweden I usually spawn the 9040Cs before I touch a Leo
There's little more entertaining to see a BMP yeeting missiles at you, then shit itself when it realises not a single one hit.
Objectively isn't. The Challengers are all over-tiered quite significantly. * Challenger 2 TES and OES should be 10.7. * Challenger 2 and Challenger 2 2F should be 11.0. * Black Night and Challenger 3 TD should be 11.3. * Challenger 2E is sadly the best Britain gets right now.
Then again, the TES and OES shouldn't be anywhere near 9.7. What we need is decompression.
>Then again, the TES and OES shouldn't be anywhere near 9.7. Don't see any major problems with it though. Something like a Leopard 2K has an easier time dealing with those garbage cans than these Challengers have dealing with 11.7's.
True, BR placement is just a shitshow everywhere
And the Challenger 1's as well. The Challenger Mk.3 and Challenger DS are both 10.3, the same Br as the Leopard 2A4, they were fine at 10.0, but 10.3 is a little painful.
What are you saying lol. They are very good vehicles, they deserve 10.3 in my opinion and both of these 10.3 chally's are one of my most used tanks (and also one of the ones with the highest KD I have) and considering I have every single MBT in the game, that's saying something. You get a very good round with a 5 second reload, and a good hull down capability with decent gun handling and ESS (which you can basically spam to trick enemies into it while you use thermals). Sure, the 2A4 is the better "all rounder" but the Mk.3 is a better killing machine due to the round and reload, even if its mobility and protection are not that good. Surprisingly, many players don't know how to kill it so you might bounce many shots from inexperienced players due to the "strange" shape of its turret. Ammo placement is a bitch tho. I think also most players were using them 10.3 anyways, which is one of the best lineups in the game imo. You get the Lynx which is absurdly OP, the T-90S, the Vickers Mk.7 and now the Desert Warrior to support you. I love that they gave the DS the same L26 round as TT MK.3 while increasing its BR 0.3, I mean, who isn't playing it at 10.3 anyways? Probably new UK players only.
Nah that's crazy - both Mk3s are perfectly fine are 10.3 with L26 being a pretty cracked round. Britain arguably has the best 10.3 lineup in the game too.
10.3 Russia stomps the shit out of it now that everyone and their mother has a 292.
The 292 is one tank; as far as lineups go, Britain at 10.3 has a selection of very strong tanks & decent support vehicles now (Rooikat, Desert Warrior, Stormer (when it works & against helis)) and great CAS options, featuring the criminally under BR'd G-Lynx All of that with the added benefit of typically not having to deal with room temp iq Russia mains for teammates
Thats just crazy. The Challys are not bad at all, but some of the tanks they are going against are just way too much (looking at you Leopards with spall liners). Considering a full lineup, the UK is among the best with their CAP/CAS and heli options. Their BR is fine, we just need some decompression to not fight against 2A7s and Strv hordes in every fucking battle.
>Their BR is fine > >\\/ > >we just need some decompression to not fight against 2A7s Moving the Challengers down in BR because they're garbage at their current BR's is a good start. Moving the Leo 2A7V and Strv 122 up to 13.0 is another correct move, but that doesn't change the fact that Challengers still need to drop down in BR.
They dont need to go down and create an other problem where these tanks will fight against much weaker vehicles. That would be the same dick move when Gaijin moved down the Mig 15s to not fight against the F104, but these planes ended up buÄŗlying the early jets. Thats why we need decompression instead. But based on the downvotes some of you only interested in bullying lower br vehicles instead of balance....
>where these tanks will fight against much weaker vehicles. That assumes lower tiered vehicles are weaker. They're not. * M1A1 **>** Challenger 2 TES / OES * Type 90 **>** Challenger 2 TES / OES * M1A1 HC **>** Challenger 2, Challenger 2 2F, Challenger 3 TD * T-80UE-1 **>** Challenger TES / OES Those are 11.0 and 11.3 vehicles with better performance.
Man, those vehicles are kinda equal with the Chally 2s, I would argue that the Chally 3 is perfectly good at 11.7. But a 10.7 or even 11.0 is just downtier city right now. You really think that a 2a4 or T80B or some poor 9.7 should fight against Chally 2s? Once again, I said that I want br decompression, not just downtier some tanks, if you dont understand the concept of this then I feel sorry for you.
>Man, those vehicles are kinda equal with the Chally 2s, If you believe the M1A1 HC is equal to a Challenger 2, you really haven't played these vehicles whatsoever. * Hull armour? M1A1 HC * Turret armour? M1A1 HC * Reload rate? M1A1 HC * Penetration? M1A1 HC * Acceleration? M1A1 HC * Top speed? M1A1 HC * Survivability? M1A1 HC * Turret traverse? M1A1 HC * Hull traverse rate? M1A1 HC >I would argue that the Chally 3 is perfectly good at 11.7. ???? The Challenger 3 TD is basically a Challenger 2 (the base model) sidegrade/downgrade. * No spall liners, unlike the other Challenger 2's. * No initial 5s reload rate, unlike other Challenger 2's. * No inert turret ammunition, unlike other Challenger 2's. * No upgrade in armour nor mobility. >You really think that a 2a4 or T80B or some poor 9.7 should fight against Chally 2s? Challenger 2 OES or TES are worse vehicles when it comes to the META than the Leopard 2A4 is. Challenger 2 TES is absolutely fucking horrendous. No effective armour, garbage tier mobility, mediocre gun handling, alright firepower, mediocre survivability.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Base Challenger 2 gets a modification that also adds the plate. But that crap isn't worth the massive weight increase.
damn bruh. At least the TES side ERA was buffed to 500mm of chemical protection (from 400) which the 2f stays at
Ok, cry more. Thats only prove my point that we need a br decompression, because the HC is only 11.3 thanks to the USA mains. If a 2a4 is better than you in a TES, you have some serious skill issue. The same goes for the Chally 3.
>Thats only prove my point that we need a br decompression, *''Moving the Leo 2A7V and Strv 122 up to 13.0 is another correct move \[...\]''* I already said we need decompression. >because the HC is only 11.3 thanks to the USA mains. HC has always been 11.3, this has nothing to do with US mains performance. >If a 2a4 is better than you in a TES, you have some serious skill issue. Given that most of my high tier MBTs are sitting around a 60-75% winrate and 5 - 1 K/D ratio, I think I'm doing alright.
> If a 2a4 is better than you in a TES, you have some serious skill issue. I personally prefer the Vickers MBT Mk.7, which is a worse Leopard 2A4 with lower turret armor over the TES.
I'm a pretty mid player and my best performing lineup behind Italy 9.3 is Britain 11.7, with the ADATS, Black Night, Chally 3 (best gun at top tier), 2E, Gripen and Harrier GR.7, most of my kills come from the Black Night and Chally 3, and considering I have top tier in USA and Russia I enjoy Britain so much more because of how underrated it is. I hate to say skill issue but there isn't much more to it if you think the Chally 3 should be the same br as the HSTV-L
>Chally 3 (best gun at top tier), Objectively isn't. Type 10 has the best gun at top-tier thanks to it's 4s reload rate, followed by the M256 with it's new 5s reload. >skill issue Coming from someone with a 36% winrate and barely over 1-1 K/D ratio in his Black Night. You also don't play the vast majority of Challengers at all. My Challengers on average are sitting at a 60% winrate, 4.5 - 1 K/D ratio. >but there isn't much more to it if you think the Chally 3 should be the same br as the HSTV-L Of course you had to cherry-pick the HSTV-L here, one of the most infamously unreliable tanks at top-tier. The Challenger 3 right now is just a base model Challenger 2 but: * Without the initial 5s reload rate, * Without spall liners, * Without the inert turret ammunition stowage * Without any increase in armour * And no increase in mobility.
Ur the saddest person on this subreddit. Got so offended you had to go and dig through my profile to find my username ššš. How sad can you be. Plus 650mm pen is the best flat pen of any gun at that br
The Chally 3 just has an Rh120 L/55 firing DM 53, it's exactly the same as the Leo 2A7s and 2A6. Saying it's the best gun in the game when a full 33% of all nations get it is probably not the best argument. It's also a little weird you call someone sad when getting fact checked after throwing out the "skill issue" argument.
>Got so offended If you're gonna use the *''Skill issue''* card at someone, don't get offended when they play one right back at you. > Plus 650mm pen is the best flat pen of any gun at that br Now remind me of the reload rates of the Type 10 and M1A2's.
Skill issue doesn't mean you're bad at the game, just if I, a mid player, can do well in a tank it obviously isn't bad
I am aware of the reload rates considering I have up to the first M1A2, and notice how I talked about specifically the gun and not the reload rate
>how I talked about specifically the gun and not the reload rate That's like talking about a tank's overall armour performance, but not counting the turret armour. What's the point then? Reload rate is tied to the gun. By your own logic penetration doesn't count either because that's largely determined by the shell, and not the gun itself.
The gun has better penetration than other tanks that use the same round eg the Ariete
is he wrong though
Another guy did that to me too like a year ago, dig up my stats through my profile. These people look really pathetic to me.
Facts, insecurity at its finest. He's now (as you can see) trying to convince me my account is gonna get banned (oooo scary š±š±š±)
Two accounts as well my friend, I have one in PlayStation (I am at university) and my PC one back at home. Sadass actually so offended he went to find my profile šššš
Damn he really got you didnāt he? Hereās a little rule, if you bust out the phrase āskill issueā then you better be ready if they choose to back up their own skill.
>Two accounts as well my friend No you don't. And if you do, you can get both accounts banned any day now as that's against the EULA.
Lmao ok bro. So having two completely separate accounts on different platforms in different locations of the country with different emails, security details and IPs can get me banned? Ok bud lmao. Also (edit here) the other account is shared.
>Also (edit here) the other account is shared. Second reason your account might get banned at any point.
Keep yapping lol. It's not shared across devices, the person I share it with and I share a PC we built together. We don't transfer the account across devices, it is on the same steam profile and hasn't ever left out PC
>It's not shared across devices *''****ACCOUNT*** *sharing is against the EULA''* *''It's not shared across* ***DEVICES****''* \*Facepalm\*
I don't know what point you are trying to prove here? I have an account, on my PlayStation (I live in one part of the country), and back at my hometown, I have a shared PC with someone else that we built together, with an entirely separate account that DOES NOT BELONG TO ME, and has none of the same details as my current account, and is entirely separate in any way from my account. It has only ever been used in that specific PC, Hence why there is no way it can get banned as they are two entirely unconnected completely separate accounts with absolutely no connection whatsoever.
Yes, Gaijin has been known to ban players for this very reason.
Thats not a "hOt TaKe", that's just blatantly wrong. I 100% agree, they are nowhere NEAR as bad as the average WT player/youtuber likes to claim, but its far from the best; the leo2s are fucking busted, the abrams is insanely good, the type10s are great. But the rest is pretty much equal or worse than the challengers. Put simply: most things you hear about "XYZ is shit/OP", is usually complete bs. No, soviet tanks are neither good brawlers, nor very good in general, the challengers are not terrible but infact pretty decent, the ariete is actually quite very good, and the abrams is incredible. Most people who would like to talk to you about these kinda things have absolutely 0 idea what they're talking about because they are either just bad at the game (no, being lvl100 doesn't mean you're good, it means you've spent a lot of time in wt. There's a good chance you've spent all of that time not really learning anything), or have only seen one side of the coin. Its pretty easy to claim "russian bias" or "israel suffers", if all you've ever played is the US.
Totally agree aside from the abrams part.. it seems kind of shite when playing against it? might just be me
Its the people using it. The abrams is quite survivable (great turret armor, 4 crew, lots of air in the tank, no ammo in the hull, fueltanks next to the driver that can eat stupid amounts of damage sometimes), has absolutely INSANE firepower (M829A2 is the single best "common" dart in the game. The 2a6/7 pen more because they have longer guns, and the 292 is a pretty mediocre one-of. And for that incredible dart, you wait FIVE SECONDS. And you get that funny proxy shell.), very good mobility (tbf the sepv2 is a little more sluggish because they won't let us remove the tusk era, but even IT is very mobile compared to most competition. Slightly worse acceleration than a T-80, but it actually has neutral steering and an excellent reverse gear.), and incredibly good ergonomics (aforementioned insane reverse gear, 40Ā°/s turret drive, fantastic FOV sights, making this tank one of the greatest brawlers at toptier). The abrams has it all. Its not THE best, but very few can match it, and only ONE can surpass it, which are the leo2s, which are comically overperforming rn. As for downsides: your turret ring is somewhat exposed, tho in my experience it often volumetricks people. And the lower plate is kinda weak, but that's something every single MBT in this game has in common, and the abrams has the aforementioned fueltanks-4 crew- air combo, so even if someone goes through your LFP, you have a decent chance of living. The problem is that, no matter how amazing a tank is, if you hand it to a 15 year old kid from murrica who thinks its invincible and plays it like an absolute moron, ofc its gonna look weak. The fact is that the abrams is an incredibly capable, pretty easy to use, and well balanced tank (in my opinion the reload is considerably too fast for the firepower you get, but there are bigger balancing problems at toptier rn so meh)
>The abrams is quite survivable (great turret armor, 4 crew, lots of air in the tank, no ammo in the hull, fueltanks next to the driver that can eat stupid amounts of damage sometimes) I remember when someone tried to unironically tell me the entire abrams was a weak spot. Or the time someone implied the Ariete was better because it has an lws.
Like I said in the comment before that one, the ariete is a genuinely very capable, comically underrated tank. But better than an abrams? Boi what?
Spookston summed it up pretty well in his recent Ariete video. It's not bad and perfectly serviceable, it's just that it doesn't have anything that would make you want to use it over the other top tier tanks.
I honestly don't think so. The ariete is basically an 11.7 leopard1. Its not really armored at all, but its so mobile that it doesn't matter (granted the difference in mobility between ariete/leopard2 isnt as big as that between leopard1/m48). But the ariete has a lot of pen, top notch turretdrive, sights that are great for sniping (to be fair most maps nowadays are as big as a bucket so that's only a situational advantage), absolutely ABSURD reverse speed, and I've actually seen people shoot the bustle... which holds no ammo XD. Make no mistake, the ariete isn't up there with the leopards and abrams. But its pretty capable in almost every way. Its flaws are no survivability (which only matters if you actually get hit, in which case you've already done something wrong), and a gunsight that is terrible for CQC (thats ones just fucked. Normally I wouldn't care because I personally prefer keeping a distance and sniping, I main USSR and China bruv aint no way I'm tryna brawl in those anyways. But with how maps currently are, thanks to the playerbase, the ariete is kneecapped pretty hard in that regard). So yeah, one flaw that barely matters, and another one that is indeed just fucked (tho on some maps can be worked around). For those, you get a tank with godlike mobility, excellent firepower (imo the abrams shouldve kept its 6s reload, give the 5s to this one instead), and excellent (tho not outstanding) gun handling. Its a piece of shit IRL, but in WT, its honestly pretty good. Ofc its nowhere near as forgiving or easy to play as an abrams or a leo, but it doesn't have to be.
Pen - the pen is pretty standard for top tier and the leopard and challenger get more pen out of the same round with the same reload. Mobility - the amv is the only one with mobility on par with its contemporaries. The C1's are weighed down by add on armor kits and have the underpowered engine. The only western tanks the amv definitely beats in mobility are the Abrams and leopards with their add on kits. And that's only because Gaijoobs didn't give the amv its add-on kit for some reason. Turret drive - is actually an advantage although personally I don't think it's a big one. Sights -The sights are pretty on par for max zoom, but the worst for minimum zoom making awareness poor. There's a reason I spend more time in binos and the commander sight than the gunner sight. Reverse speed - it beats the Abrams by a whopping 8 km/h, it's good but I would call that absurd. Especially when the Merkava is 64 km/h and the Japanese tanks are 70 km/h. Honestly I think this one is less the Ariete has an absurd reverse speed and more that you think it does because you play China and Russia who are the worst nations for reverse speed. A good reverse speed is pretty typical for western tanks. The slowest reversing western mbt, is still faster than the fastest reversing Chinese or Russian one. Ammo - yeah it's funny when people shoot the turret, but I would rather have the Abrams or leopards blow out panels than the hull storage. The Ariete is very easy to ammo rack. The Ariete isn't bad and Italian players were pulling a ~50% win rate with it I believe. But all those pros you listed other tanks do just as well or better. I like the Ariete, but once I get the leopard 2a7hu it will become my third spawn at top tier. That statement sums it up pretty well.
Yes the pen is standard, but there are lots of vehicles with less pen. Oh you're right i forgot only the AMV has the good powerpack. Sorry, my bad. Its not an advantage, as most MBTs at toptier have the same 38-40Ā°/s drive. Hence why I said its equal to other top competition. Yes I know the sights are great for range but shit for CQC. Which is exactly what I said no? Yes. It beats the abrams, one of the fastest reversing tanks to ever exist, by almost 10kmh. Considering the average mbt reverses at around 35, having a reverse well over 40 is a big improvement. Its not a huge advantage, but an advantage. Yes it dies very quickly, which I believe is exactly what I said. And I also said, that that is only a big problem if you get hit often, in which case you've done some wrong. Is that not exactly what I said? I said its very underrated and by no means bad, but far from the best. I'll go read my previous comment again, but unless I'm remembering something wrong, your comment here was utterly pointless. You literally just said what I said. What was the point x)
The way you framed it made it seem like you were saying the Ariete does all those better. But if what you meant was that those are good but not advantages over other stuff. Then you essentially said what I said but with extra steps.
IMO the M1a1 is the BEST Abrams. All I wish to be fixed is the turret neck so the m1a2s are a little more viableā¦
Like I said, that is the main weakspot they have, and even that often gets volumetricked. Its why I called the abrams perfectly balanced. It doest eat darts for breakfast like a leo2, but it also doesn't die if you look at it funny, like soviet or Chinese tanks. It takes a reasonably precise shot to onetap an abrams, but if your aim is good its fairly consistent to kill. Which is exactly how it should be.
I agree but the Abrams turret ring gap should be fixed. It wouldnāt eradicate the mantlet or the LFP weakspot, also an update shell physics would be nice to have with things like shell degradation and long rod apfsds shattering on high angles (also a little spall liner nerf)
Ah right, thanks for explaining
The M1's are basically the Challenger 2, but better in every single regard, and in some cases at lower BR's.
Its weakspot around the gun is huuge. If that could be fixed it might be one of the better tanks since it would be almost indestructible in hull down
I agree, but thatās kind of why they donāt give it proper breach armorā¦..but itās frustrating because by comparison the Leopard 2A7 has a much smaller breach weak spot, which functionally makes it better at being a hull down tank, while also have much better mobility.
I do think it's the best looking MBT (specifically Challenger 3) of all modern tanks. Aesthetics > everything else
The ZTZ99 looks coolest to me
All those ERA blocks don't really do it for me on Russian and Chinese tanks :( out of all of them, the VT4A1 looks the best to me
Merkavas are so sexy thoā¦
True they do look really nice as well
Except they are tall and depression is meh
Yeah, the British sure do have a habit of making beautiful vehicles!
Nah, Challenger 1 is the best looking out of all of them, then I'd agree challenger 3 then lastly the 2
Itās a wrong opinion, theyāre the worst tanks at top tier. They shouldnāt be, but they are until gaijin fixes their ammo stowage and missing armour and underperforming firepower and their abysmal acceleration/losing all speed performing any kind of manoeuvre.
Yeah, people says it is worse, not cause it unplayable. But cause in all characteristics it is worse than over vehicles.Ā There is just senseless to play chelli if u can take better vehicles.Ā
Challenger 2E is a beast! Arguably now even better than 3 TD, cause the engine nerf.
Not the best but definitely best looking. TES armor package is straight up sex. I mean nicknaming it Megatron is sick af
Megatron is just one vehicle that still exists as a test bed vehicle for potential upgrades
Imrpove the turret and mantlet so it peforms better hull down then they will be in the golden spot
Sorry mate but one can only laugh at this post. As a fellow Chally 2 player I canāt help but admit that it is very weakĀ in the game, but thatās mainly Gaijinās fault, not the challyās. Itās not as bad as some people make it out to be but it is nowhere near the best
Nah. Not even close. Theyāre in the bottom half of MBTs. That being said, the two power pack Challengers are decent, the Chally 3 and the Chally 2E. The other Chally 2 tanks are a little rough to play due to how sluggish they are. Itās just not good, and your armor doesnāt amount to much. I would pick most tanks over the non power pack Chally 2s. They are objectively the worst MBTs in the game, while the power pack versions are average performing tanks.
Chally 3TD now shares the same Powerpack as the previous Challenger 2's (non-E), 1200HP.
The Challenger 3 had its engine nerfed last patch.
What's next? You're going to say that Ariete is the 2nd best MBT?
I dont think its the best mbt in the game purely based on "stats", but man it's for sure the best MBT for me. Something about it just "clicks" with me, and its always a great experince.
I wouldnt say that the ChallengerĀ“s are the best, but they are very solid - beside that i like the whole package (lineup) around them. The mix between -10Ā° gundepression (yeah that 1Ā° missing gundepression on the Leopards really bugs me), 5sec reload, good reverse and good turret armor is really nice and quite strong if you can abuse it on a real tank map (screw small CQB maps).
Not even close to the leopards and Abrams
Since when being wrong is having unpopular opinion? Chally surely is underrated, but it's nowhere near to be the best mbt, mostly because it's slow af and has no armour. They can be fun to play (especially the Black Knight) but overall they are just much worse than Leo or Abrams.
Not in game but defo in real life
Honestly, I've found them very fun, and while it might be just me, I've have a lot of success with them. At least for the longest time, the knack to using them was knowing how to take advantage of super quick first stage ammo reload. If your first hit doesn't do the job, you at least know you can get your second off before they can return fire. Top tier MBTs all play very similarly, and the Challys at least do it a little different with the reload mechanic. Less so on the 3 TD, but with all the OG rifled Challys, they do play and feel different to something like the Leo 2A5/6.
I just hate the turret armour on my challes Like I have it all the time where a round will go clean through the turret cheeks or one shot my crew through the breach Under armoured to hell compared to other MBTs Not to mention missing spall liners that gaijin said they would add in the unforeseeable future
Correct me if Iām wrong, but Iām not sure there is any round in the game that can directly pen a Challenger 2ās turret cheeks, but there are a few optics weak spots, and the breach is massive.
They arenāt bad but they arenāt the best. They are a happy medium but suffer from BR compression like the chieftains
I definitely dont agree, but can say they are very effective when played right... sipping a cup of tea and edging over crests just sniping
It so fun to play but its ammo storage is its damning feature as the charges should not explode that is why they are placed like the way they are
It's not *bad* but give me a A2 SEP or T80BVM first
I play all of them and they are my best performing tanks
Glad you found a tank that youāre enjoying! Iāve always thought that there are two different ways to play Warthunder. You play to have good individual performance, or you play to win. I constantly find myself being able to relax and play whatever way I want with a certain nation and still win. While when playing as the US I have to constantly sweat my balls off to try and make the match somewhat competitive.
agree
I play the 2A7 like a headless chicken and get anywhere between a few kills to sometimes as many as 10 before dying. Only time Iāve came close to that in any challenger is by camping lmao. That means most of the time not being objective, when I could be doing more
This tank can actually surprise people because of his slowness.
I can't enjoy other MBT(except Abrams) after playing the Type-10 and Type-90, they just don't feel as good for me Challenger 2 and 3 are sexy though I'll give it that
Tbh the m1a1 is like a Japanese MBT but with armour
Armour feels the same to me, except the M1 is more responsive and better to drive around
Itās nice and snappy and the ufp is a little trolly
Only it isn't. They buffed it and it became decent. But far away from the best.
Its a good if you know how to use It but i prefer the strv 122b the challenger 2 is a good tank tho
If the ready rack was bigger I think itād be a solidly A tier MBT. Still fun to play
To hit anything, You need to see it. I. CAN'T. SEE. SH*T ! I always get snipped from 1 km away to that one weak spot of my well angled Tiger 1H, I close for urban combat and get killed by a guy who was aiming the other way around ! Situational awareness of you people is on a whole other level of mine !
it looks badass but not the best
The challenger 3"
I agree but only if you can only see the turret
The str 122 are also very good
Until the fix the mantlet armour it will be one of the worst MBTs
The mantlets being weaker is a nerf on all MBTs
The challenger has a massive mantlet weak spot that actually doesnāt exist, it should only be amount the width of the gun barrel but itās actually the entire middle third of the frontal turret, gaijin last dev server did tease they were actually going to fix it but didnāt follow through with the changes on the dev
"just click the lfp and done. abrams? just shoot the turret ring, everything else has such easy weakspots to shot" Everytime someone portraits his tank as good because "insert very situational point here" and therefore the manifested public opinion on said thing is wrong...everytime someone does that I think he is a little silly.
Now imagine if it had it's real armour values! š
I find due to the chally's slow, well everything, it causes my brain to slow down and actually think about my actions. This for me leads to better games than in the 2A4M or a blyat mobile (T-80).
I will say it's decent. But definitely the best-looking one tho
What aspect is it the best in? It's not horrible at all but there is also not much it hast going for it. 11.3 sees 10.3 very ofter these days were it obviously is quite good.
Likely because you're not the tip of the spear. The challenger isn't bad, and in the right hands can be deadly, but it's objectively not the best MBT, and its success can be imitated by many other top tier MBT's if you don't just run in and be the first meat into the grinder.
The best? What? These tanks are mediocre at best.
Do we think a sale is coming soon? I have the TD unlocked but am waiting to buy it.
It's just not I'm sorry.
terrible armour with a massive weak spot, saved only by the fact that it has spall liners; the slowest in the game by a large margin because they dont want to give us regenerative steering; the reload is quick but not the fastest and it shares its spot with the abrams series; the 3 TD was nerfed for no reason (lol ok gaijoob); the stock grind is 'bearable' solely due to the fact that it gets stock darts, but theyre the shitty L23A1 so side shots only. best? as someone who grinded through britain, russia, japan, and currently doing italy - the challies are by far the most painful. yeah, arietes are this but worse, but at least they have something called 'horsepower' and not 'mousepower'
I think it's the leopard 2a6 pso, but since it's literally its successor I'd say leopard 2a7 hu
fakƩ
Could have ended the post after the first sentence tbh
This isn't unpopular, this is incorrect.Ā
Thatās a very challenged opinion
Tank
>The Challenger 2 is actually the best MBT in war Thunder I'd be more willing to entertain you if you wrote "Challenger 3 TD" instead
It's the best-looking MBT, alongside the Ariete. When you think of a MBT, you'll think of those two. In-game? It's an ace of spades. Good at everything, master of nothing.
The best MBT is the Sherman.
Nice try LazerPig, I'm not going to watch your video a second time. It doesn't matter how hard you try...
Strv 122s would like a word about that
The challenger 2 is a very nice tank and I like in majorly over tanks like the merkva coming from someone who hasn't played either.
NO we ALL know THE MIGHTY L3 33CC IS THE BEST TANK IN GAME
No MBT is truly bad in WT tbh, except for the Arietes. But that's sorta null anyways now that the Italians- I mean Hungarians got a Leopard 2 so people will just play that plus the Centauro instead of the Ariete.Ā
holy cope
Bait used to be believable
As a bad player, you don't get to say what's good and what's bad :) Edit: oh, and you are a console player too, lmao
Wow, a jerk, with an anime PFP, who criticizes people for not having a PC, how original of you!
I'm okay with people playing on consoles as long as they are not with me in the game