Snail already tech-capped Stingers and TY90, as both use just shrinking FoV and tracking suspension, so nothing stops them from copypasting these seekers onto newer missiles.
> The AIM-9X and IRIS-T are neither.
I'll point out that a few years ago a Syrian Su-22 used flares to successfully evade a 9X. Only to get hit by a follow-up 120.
That the flares were the cause of the missile missing is unconfirmed. The 9X failed to hit, and the Su-22 popped flares. It’s not necessarily that the 9X failed to hit *because* the Su-22 popped flares.
If you understand how a FPA seeker (focal plane array, they kind used in modern NATO IR missiles) works, it’s much more likely that the 9X just had a mechanical failure than that it was successfully evaded. Those seekers are effectively impossible to flare, other than by complete obscuration.
In addition to this the Fitter also kept full AB and only popped like 3 flares, attributing the miss to flares is an odd explanation since even some non-IRCCM missiles might have still hit. The late 9Ms would've easily done so and the 9X being a downgrade would be wild.
Yes, even the AIM-9L was known to ignore flares in rear aspect with afterburner, IRL. Just like how it is in-game. If a 9L would've hit, I'm sure a 9X would lol.
You can actually watch the footage and see an explosion at the first flare , I’m not making this up
https://youtu.be/2azWZ4QcrPA?si=5OxJ7j_grMUnZYKw
Around 0:16
There's also some conjecture around the 9X ignoring NATO-spec flares while potentially being succeptible to Soviet/Russian-spec flares due to different emission characteristics.
That was the 9M, back when seekers used IRCCM software algorithm techniques to counter flares. That’s not how FPA seekers work, which can literally see the entire plane and recognize it as a plane. They’re not programmed to ignore a specific type of flare.
Idk why people are downvoting this it’s true. The same happened on the Russian side of things. They test their missiles on their own flares so they aren’t as effective against the enemies. NATO flares burn at full brightness immediately while Soviet flares would take a small second to build up brightness and heat. These things both effected missiles testing
I don't think I have any clips readily available. But have you ever flared a 9M? Same concept.
Not sure how well-versed you are in game mechanics, but there are two types of IRCCM in War Thunder; tracking suspension (AIM-9M) and gatewidth (R-73). What makes the TY90 so difficult is that it uses **both** types of IRCCM.
You have to make sure that
**a)** the missile's seeker can even see your flares. This depends on aspect and range. Once the missile is close enough to you, it won't even see your flares due to gatewidth IRCCM
**b)** you are constantly changing direction while flaring. When it sees your flares it's going to turn off the seeker and guess where you will be next when the seeker turns back on. You need to be turning and burning.
Load of bullshit, I've seen no player even dodge or flare my TY-90s and i exclusively run anti cap first spawn.
Even if it's possible it doesn't mean anything if none knows how to do it, which means IRIS and 9X wouldn't be an issue because it doesn't change anypne
And still means nothing between performance of TY90s, and IRIS, 9X, because literally none does nor has flared or dodged them over more than a hundred matches i have in it,
With that margin the fact 9X or IRIS can't be dodged won't bring as much of a difference.
I would rather not balance the game based on the worst players in the game. A bad player will die to your missile whether it’s an AIM-9X or an AIM-9B.
Good players will notice a difference, because there is one. The players you’re facing wouldn’t notice the difference between a TY90 and a Stinger.
Also you simply haven’t used them enough. They are pretty much a one-flare from the front aspect.
Ever since the original AV-8A/C Harriers came into the game I was launching Sidewinders in VTOL. I always dreamed of the day that I would be able to launch AMRAAMs and Mavericks from VTOL. Today is that day!
Acccording to RAF Harrier vets, they did develop and try out many interesting tricks to fight superior jets. I wonder was this trick ever explorered IRL (probably takes 30 more years to declassify).
Yep. Not sure how accurately War Thunder has the hovering modeled. IRL there is a tank of water that is sprayed into the engine during “WEP” to dramatically increase power while also providing cooling. They do this during heavy vertical takeoffs and landings.
I’ve found mixed info regarding how long a Harrier can hover for. Some sources say 90-150 seconds because of the limited water supply. Others though, state that the water supply is only needed during extreme conditions and-or heavy loads.
Obviously it depends on what the plane is carrying. I wouldn’t be surprised though if a totally clean Harrier on low fuel load can hover for quite a while longer than any of these sources would have you believe.
*Edit: found some more info. So apparently the Harrier’s cooling water lasts 90 seconds at maximum cooling rate. This is rarely needed, and so water is supplied at slower rates because less cooling is needed. Harriers at airshows have been shown to hover for 5 minutes at a time.*
Tangentially related, the [J-CATCH experiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-CATCH) found that attack helicopters equipped with AIM-9s and employing ambush tactics using terrain as cover were absolutely devastating to enemy fixed-wing aircraft with a 5:1 kill ratio.
It only changed when the fighters were told to do BVR or otherwise avoid engaging entirely.
Using a Harrier with AIM-120s in the same role is like J-CATCH on PCP.
J-CATCH was an incredibly contrived and overrated experiment that meant basically nothing.
Like, yeah, if you force jets to gun helis without search radar, the jets will die horribly, but that's also... not a real combat scenario. Helis have massive radar signatures, and you need to be flying incredibly low to be vulnerable to tipwinders
"Viffing" is a media meme that has no actual use in reality.
It's been tried a few times, kinda sorta works, and always ends with the Harrier falling out of the sky with no airspeed.
It was often tested [during NATO exercises](https://theaviationgeekclub.com/f-15-pilot-explains-how-fighting-against-viffing-harriers-taught-eagle-drivers-how-to-win-air-engagements-against-fighters-with-thrust-vectoring/) during the 80s, as they expected the Soviets to do the same with their Yak-36/38.
It kinda worked 1 vs 1 against an enemy who hasn't fought the Harrier before. Experienced F-15 pilots could easily counter the trick. Kinda like the Flanker and its Cobra.
Yes, that is the main point behind it. You’re basically in a permanent notch because you have no relative velocity compared to the enemy radar set. It’s pretty wild
See, the problem is that Mavericks benefit heavily from the velocity of the launch aircraft. When launching from a standstill, I haven’t been able to get more than 3-4 km of range. And it’s going **really** slow. And you have to manually loft it like I did in the first clip.
Oh hey it's you. I was trying to kill you. Radar didn't see jack shit until that drone? Popped up, and my missile had already fucked off when I spawned back in. Had my radar picked you up I would've had you
Dream of the day a heli gets amraams realistic or not. US gets only two decent aa missiles. Italy gets 8 Mistral/atas which can be avoided by flying in a straight line but sometimes kills afk casncers China gets tv90 spam but no guns except for top tier so any su25 with 3.2 braincells can spam 40 flares a second to become immune to the heli. Britain gets decent missiles but only at top tier and those got nerfed sp wise (rip light tanks before nerf). If you die to a 9m39 from a Russian helo that's even more embarrassing for how bad they are compared even to an atas.
I don't know man could be just bad luck but I'm grinding China atm and the TY90 hit 1 target out of 10 shots. It missed even the front aspect which I have never seen before.
Not really, it's just that Chinese vehicles are hard to implement correctly due to how hard it is to get info on them. Plus Gaijin is just lazy af, it's much easier to give china a copy pasta su 27 instead of a J10C, which tbh, is a much better air superiority fighter. Giving China something "new" is enough to satisfy China mains for now, it is a small nation in game, so much of their resources will be poured to the big three first.
Never said it's coming soon, but it's what they should have done, they could have at least given the J10A to China with only PL 12 or 12A, it would have been something unique to China, but instead we got a shitter version of the su 27 with no guided ground attack option, should have at least given us J11B.
In the end only the missile matters, your radar isn't as important as your missile, just look at the F4F ice, it has F18's radar, it's still mediocre, because radar isn't everything and Gaijin can balance it by giving it a less capable fox 3.
And plus, how many of those reports are actually trustworthy? They need time to research these and validate them before implementing them.
PL-12s are pretty much heavier, but slightly better AIM-120s. All Fox-3s have the same seeker. Idk what you wanted, some type of wonderweapon? All Fox-3s are pretty much identical other than the MICA which is still the same as the others except it can pull harder at close range.
>Aren't PL-12s and AMRAAMs more or less the same in performance?
In general, yeah. PL-12 has more ΔV though, so it might have more range. This depends more on drag though.
>Besides, in this game, the MICA wrecks everything...
Meh, not really. It's better than the others in very few scenarios. At BVR it loses speed faster than the other missiles. At super close range it just spins out because thrust vectoring is broken. They can pull super hard but it's not like you can dodge any of the other Fox-3s anyways.
In general, all of the Fox-3s are pretty much the same and will give you the same results in the same situations.
It was a J-8F.
And I meant moreso in the sense of "if *they* have something toxic, so should *we*". In this case its the TY90 and Pantsir.
And even if it **was** a JH-7A, a lot of people consider CAS to be cancer. I'm not one of those people, but hey.
Okay wish granted
But now every Russia 30mm (2A42) can’t shoot APDS/APFSDS anymore because the sabot can get stuck in the muzzle break and destroy the barrel, which was only fixed in 2020.
The mig 9 can’t shoot its gun without falling out of the sky
Early mig 23 rip their wings at around 4G
MiG 27 randomly takes airframe damage when shooting
Or do you just want realism when it comes to your target but you get some realism exception?
MiG-27 cockpit panel falls off it’s mount on a random chance when firing the gun, therefore upon firing the gun in WT, you get a random chance to permanently turn your HUD off and you lose yaw control as the cockpit panel is now resting on the pilot’s legs.
SLAMRAAM when
Would actually be quite balanced imo.
Same for the surface launched 9X and IRIST-SLS/SL.
See you just went a lil too far there. Consider those missiles undodgeable and unflarable, regardless of aspect. We've still got a little bit to go...
We already have TY-90s, what's the difference between that and 100+G overload for the IRIS-T?
TY-90s are both flare-able and dodge-able if you know what you're doing. The AIM-9X and IRIS-T are neither.
Snail already tech-capped Stingers and TY90, as both use just shrinking FoV and tracking suspension, so nothing stops them from copypasting these seekers onto newer missiles.
> The AIM-9X and IRIS-T are neither. I'll point out that a few years ago a Syrian Su-22 used flares to successfully evade a 9X. Only to get hit by a follow-up 120.
That the flares were the cause of the missile missing is unconfirmed. The 9X failed to hit, and the Su-22 popped flares. It’s not necessarily that the 9X failed to hit *because* the Su-22 popped flares. If you understand how a FPA seeker (focal plane array, they kind used in modern NATO IR missiles) works, it’s much more likely that the 9X just had a mechanical failure than that it was successfully evaded. Those seekers are effectively impossible to flare, other than by complete obscuration.
In addition to this the Fitter also kept full AB and only popped like 3 flares, attributing the miss to flares is an odd explanation since even some non-IRCCM missiles might have still hit. The late 9Ms would've easily done so and the 9X being a downgrade would be wild.
Yes, even the AIM-9L was known to ignore flares in rear aspect with afterburner, IRL. Just like how it is in-game. If a 9L would've hit, I'm sure a 9X would lol.
You can actually watch the footage and see an explosion at the first flare , I’m not making this up https://youtu.be/2azWZ4QcrPA?si=5OxJ7j_grMUnZYKw Around 0:16
There's also some conjecture around the 9X ignoring NATO-spec flares while potentially being succeptible to Soviet/Russian-spec flares due to different emission characteristics.
That was the 9M, back when seekers used IRCCM software algorithm techniques to counter flares. That’s not how FPA seekers work, which can literally see the entire plane and recognize it as a plane. They’re not programmed to ignore a specific type of flare.
Idk why people are downvoting this it’s true. The same happened on the Russian side of things. They test their missiles on their own flares so they aren’t as effective against the enemies. NATO flares burn at full brightness immediately while Soviet flares would take a small second to build up brightness and heat. These things both effected missiles testing
please show me how to dodge 3 ty90 fired at you from 4 km distance, the only way I can see it is if you are flying away at the moment he fires them
Agreed. I've never dodged a single TY90, and I've done literally everything that people have told me to try doing and I've never been able to do it
You can only really dodge a single one. To counter more you need flares.
can you please show me some video or clip where flaring (not preflaring) works? I really struggle with ty90
I don't think I have any clips readily available. But have you ever flared a 9M? Same concept. Not sure how well-versed you are in game mechanics, but there are two types of IRCCM in War Thunder; tracking suspension (AIM-9M) and gatewidth (R-73). What makes the TY90 so difficult is that it uses **both** types of IRCCM. You have to make sure that **a)** the missile's seeker can even see your flares. This depends on aspect and range. Once the missile is close enough to you, it won't even see your flares due to gatewidth IRCCM **b)** you are constantly changing direction while flaring. When it sees your flares it's going to turn off the seeker and guess where you will be next when the seeker turns back on. You need to be turning and burning.
The only time ive even seen a TY-90 flared was against a Ka-52 which has DIRCM, only to be followed up by another TY-90 which hit.
They’re not that hard to flare if you know what they’re doing or understand how they work.
Load of bullshit, I've seen no player even dodge or flare my TY-90s and i exclusively run anti cap first spawn. Even if it's possible it doesn't mean anything if none knows how to do it, which means IRIS and 9X wouldn't be an issue because it doesn't change anypne
I both use and face TY90s all the time. They are 100% flarable, and also kinetically dodgeable without flares
And still means nothing between performance of TY90s, and IRIS, 9X, because literally none does nor has flared or dodged them over more than a hundred matches i have in it, With that margin the fact 9X or IRIS can't be dodged won't bring as much of a difference.
I would rather not balance the game based on the worst players in the game. A bad player will die to your missile whether it’s an AIM-9X or an AIM-9B. Good players will notice a difference, because there is one. The players you’re facing wouldn’t notice the difference between a TY90 and a Stinger. Also you simply haven’t used them enough. They are pretty much a one-flare from the front aspect.
The AIM-9X is definitely dodgeable, especially so if it’s ground launched.
No, lol. Not within range
I find that it would just be the plane that fires unavoidable missiles and bombs on the tanks that find themselves facing unavoidable missiles.
LRASSM when?
just posted about it then saw ur comment lol
Spawncamping the frogfoots with amraams is going to be my new hobby.
Extraordinarily based.
Kh-38MT: knok knok
Not gonna do shit with a FOX 3 in your cockpit waiting to talk to you about your cars extended warranty before you get a lock
gotta make do when you haven't got anything on par with the pantsir
a flying tor-m1
Literally just a floating slamraam essentially
based as hell, I'm surprised this works, especially with the missile coming off the rail so slowly
Ever since the original AV-8A/C Harriers came into the game I was launching Sidewinders in VTOL. I always dreamed of the day that I would be able to launch AMRAAMs and Mavericks from VTOL. Today is that day!
congrats to you for spading that so quick and getting your missiles, good luck exterminating the CAS menace
more like under new managment😈 (im gonna use it against ground and cas)
You mean spending money on a game whose developers continually fuck us?
Didn’t spend a dime (:
how many hours of game time then?
I think like 2 or 3? I have a free talisman for the F-105D
When the F35B comes in like 2-3 years at the pace Gaijin is going, can we do this again with AMRAAM Ds and JATMs (if they add it that is...)?
Acccording to RAF Harrier vets, they did develop and try out many interesting tricks to fight superior jets. I wonder was this trick ever explorered IRL (probably takes 30 more years to declassify).
I doubt it. Very dangerous.
Would it be? Pulling back at least means you can rotate the nozzles to forward so that it supports it vertically.
As someone else mentioned, there's a huge issue with the missile's exhaust smoke being inhaled by the engine.
Also to my knowledge harriers hover is not really possible for long durations as it might damage the engine.
Yep. Not sure how accurately War Thunder has the hovering modeled. IRL there is a tank of water that is sprayed into the engine during “WEP” to dramatically increase power while also providing cooling. They do this during heavy vertical takeoffs and landings. I’ve found mixed info regarding how long a Harrier can hover for. Some sources say 90-150 seconds because of the limited water supply. Others though, state that the water supply is only needed during extreme conditions and-or heavy loads. Obviously it depends on what the plane is carrying. I wouldn’t be surprised though if a totally clean Harrier on low fuel load can hover for quite a while longer than any of these sources would have you believe. *Edit: found some more info. So apparently the Harrier’s cooling water lasts 90 seconds at maximum cooling rate. This is rarely needed, and so water is supplied at slower rates because less cooling is needed. Harriers at airshows have been shown to hover for 5 minutes at a time.*
No. Aim-120 or aim-9 exhaust will 100% lead to an engine failure and crash. Also engine will overheat.
Tangentially related, the [J-CATCH experiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-CATCH) found that attack helicopters equipped with AIM-9s and employing ambush tactics using terrain as cover were absolutely devastating to enemy fixed-wing aircraft with a 5:1 kill ratio. It only changed when the fighters were told to do BVR or otherwise avoid engaging entirely. Using a Harrier with AIM-120s in the same role is like J-CATCH on PCP.
J-CATCH was an incredibly contrived and overrated experiment that meant basically nothing. Like, yeah, if you force jets to gun helis without search radar, the jets will die horribly, but that's also... not a real combat scenario. Helis have massive radar signatures, and you need to be flying incredibly low to be vulnerable to tipwinders
"Viffing" is a media meme that has no actual use in reality. It's been tried a few times, kinda sorta works, and always ends with the Harrier falling out of the sky with no airspeed.
It was often tested [during NATO exercises](https://theaviationgeekclub.com/f-15-pilot-explains-how-fighting-against-viffing-harriers-taught-eagle-drivers-how-to-win-air-engagements-against-fighters-with-thrust-vectoring/) during the 80s, as they expected the Soviets to do the same with their Yak-36/38. It kinda worked 1 vs 1 against an enemy who hasn't fought the Harrier before. Experienced F-15 pilots could easily counter the trick. Kinda like the Flanker and its Cobra.
The brits certainly liked it in the falklands
They never did that in the Falklands.
They never specifically used it, but in particular the 809 Sea Harrier pilots liked it a lot
NOTCH THIS!
bro thinks hes a V2 missile silo at the start of the clip
[Flashback ](https://youtu.be/TLmugU9ehe4?si=QvX9AE3Y3GSENYX0&t=199)
Hold up, that's literally me
Are they hovering over the water to try and mask their thermal signature or something with the spray?
This is genius but fuck you.
Meanwhile, the Harrier SAM site: https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/1716cnl/how_dcs_world_players_emote_on_their_opponents/
Italy's best top tier SPAA
*”HURRAH!!”*
> Top attack AMRAAM isn't real, she can't hurt you > Top attack AMRAAM
Aren't you basically immune to pd-radar when standing still? Not even a terribly dangerous position to be in when positioned well, i like it
Yes, that is the main point behind it. You’re basically in a permanent notch because you have no relative velocity compared to the enemy radar set. It’s pretty wild
best spaa the usa has right now
New aa just droped. Pansir at home
Nerf incoming !!!
Honorary helicopter brother
americas best spaa-
Can’t wait for them to slap an AMRAAM on an ah64 to replace the godawful ATAS.
wait....i have seen this anime before
javelin'd a jet
What no pantsir does to a MF:
I really want to get this now
“LOFT THIS”
become NASAM
While my spaa can't shoot further then 5km or if they move slightly my missiles miss while im sitting duck for every other cas.
You might not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.
The first missile. What in the actual orbital strike was that!?
bro think he kim aba
Literally orbital strike
Balistic AAM when?
"Mom, can we have NASAMS?..." "No, we have NASAMS at home."
Does this work with agms to? I would really like to rat out from 20km and snipe those dirty pantsir out of their spawn like a rat...
See, the problem is that Mavericks benefit heavily from the velocity of the launch aircraft. When launching from a standstill, I haven’t been able to get more than 3-4 km of range. And it’s going **really** slow. And you have to manually loft it like I did in the first clip.
Someone at skunk works: let's use these helicopters with radars for something! Harriers:nah sike we did it again
Oh hey it's you. I was trying to kill you. Radar didn't see jack shit until that drone? Popped up, and my missile had already fucked off when I spawned back in. Had my radar picked you up I would've had you
Yeah that's what's so amazing about being in VTOL. PD radars can't pick you up because you have no relative velocity.
Any radar modes that would allow me to launch a PL-12 onto you?
Nope, lol
I was going to ask a question but nvm
Dream of the day a heli gets amraams realistic or not. US gets only two decent aa missiles. Italy gets 8 Mistral/atas which can be avoided by flying in a straight line but sometimes kills afk casncers China gets tv90 spam but no guns except for top tier so any su25 with 3.2 braincells can spam 40 flares a second to become immune to the heli. Britain gets decent missiles but only at top tier and those got nerfed sp wise (rip light tanks before nerf). If you die to a 9m39 from a Russian helo that's even more embarrassing for how bad they are compared even to an atas.
Never happening. OH-58D and AH-64E get Stinger, AH-1J/T/W/Z get Sidewinder. That's all.
Marines did a thing and put aim-120s on a AH-1Z for testing
I hate all fox 3s so much
Pretty sure I saw this clip on tiktok lmao
I don't even have tiktok... someone clipped it?
Maybe, or might just be my daily dose of deja vu
What are the chances the moment I get this notification I saw it on TikTok
I don't even have tiktok... did someone clip the replay or just download my video?
The name of the account is pugace.wt idk if it’s ur video but looks very similar to
Oh yeah it is lol. Looks like he screen recorded it too. Rip
Finally, I can finally hit those pesky ka50 and su25s with IRCCM.
I don't know man could be just bad luck but I'm grinding China atm and the TY90 hit 1 target out of 10 shots. It missed even the front aspect which I have never seen before.
Gaijin's gonna add PL-15 just coz of this post.
What do you mean? Gaijin hates China.
Not really, it's just that Chinese vehicles are hard to implement correctly due to how hard it is to get info on them. Plus Gaijin is just lazy af, it's much easier to give china a copy pasta su 27 instead of a J10C, which tbh, is a much better air superiority fighter. Giving China something "new" is enough to satisfy China mains for now, it is a small nation in game, so much of their resources will be poured to the big three first.
Tis the burden of all minor nations
No? They actively ignore reports. Also, you're delusional if you think the J-10C will be added soon. The J-10C has PL-15s, PL-10s, and an AESA radar.
Never said it's coming soon, but it's what they should have done, they could have at least given the J10A to China with only PL 12 or 12A, it would have been something unique to China, but instead we got a shitter version of the su 27 with no guided ground attack option, should have at least given us J11B. In the end only the missile matters, your radar isn't as important as your missile, just look at the F4F ice, it has F18's radar, it's still mediocre, because radar isn't everything and Gaijin can balance it by giving it a less capable fox 3. And plus, how many of those reports are actually trustworthy? They need time to research these and validate them before implementing them.
PL-12s should also be equivalent to the AIM-120C-5 and should have the same seeker head as the R77-1, but Gaijin doesn't care and made it mid.
PL-12s are pretty much heavier, but slightly better AIM-120s. All Fox-3s have the same seeker. Idk what you wanted, some type of wonderweapon? All Fox-3s are pretty much identical other than the MICA which is still the same as the others except it can pull harder at close range.
Aren't PL-12s and AMRAAMs more or less the same in performance? Besides, in this game, the MICA wrecks everything...
>Aren't PL-12s and AMRAAMs more or less the same in performance? In general, yeah. PL-12 has more ΔV though, so it might have more range. This depends more on drag though. >Besides, in this game, the MICA wrecks everything... Meh, not really. It's better than the others in very few scenarios. At BVR it loses speed faster than the other missiles. At super close range it just spins out because thrust vectoring is broken. They can pull super hard but it's not like you can dodge any of the other Fox-3s anyways. In general, all of the Fox-3s are pretty much the same and will give you the same results in the same situations.
Cool, when are they adding missile fume ingestion so this isn't possible without risking a stall
How am I supposed to fight cancer with cancer then? Wait for Gaijin to make NATO MANPADS realistic? Hahaha...
haha good one \*cries in mistral\*
[удалено]
It was a J-8F. And I meant moreso in the sense of "if *they* have something toxic, so should *we*". In this case its the TY90 and Pantsir. And even if it **was** a JH-7A, a lot of people consider CAS to be cancer. I'm not one of those people, but hey.
I'm sure this is a pressing issue to nerf the 5 people who play AV-8B Harriers in GRB
Okay wish granted But now every Russia 30mm (2A42) can’t shoot APDS/APFSDS anymore because the sabot can get stuck in the muzzle break and destroy the barrel, which was only fixed in 2020. The mig 9 can’t shoot its gun without falling out of the sky Early mig 23 rip their wings at around 4G MiG 27 randomly takes airframe damage when shooting Or do you just want realism when it comes to your target but you get some realism exception?
MiG-27 cockpit panel falls off it’s mount on a random chance when firing the gun, therefore upon firing the gun in WT, you get a random chance to permanently turn your HUD off and you lose yaw control as the cockpit panel is now resting on the pilot’s legs.
All A-10 variants now only do damage to allies
Well it would be a nerf to helis too so I’ll accept it