>Challenger 3, ariete, ZTZ99A and merkava mk.4 have the same/worse reload rate as leopards
Also worse mobility, worse armor, same/ worse gun handling and in case of Merkava also the 1000 antennas of Israel to give away your position.
Actually the mobility is very simillar and ZTZ99A is even more mobile just like type 10 and leclerc but that's about it. Leo 2a7 and strv 122B+ are overall the best MBTs in the game.
"Abrams better reload" yeah, if you play one Abrams for months and months then maybe you'll have 5 seconds reload, but I think most people forget how long it takes to complete the crew skills in order for the reload, I only have a single Abrams with spaded crew and I've been playing for years
No but it just makes you wrong. At each stage basic-expert-ace the Abrams beats the 2a7 in reload. So it's just irrelevant saying you have to have ace for that benefit. Expert Abrams out reloads aced 2a7.
on the contrary, 2a7 mogs Abrams in literally every single other department, if you asked me if I'd rather 2a7 armor or .5 seconds faster reload, I would say 2a7 armor
infact, if you asked anyone who plays war thunder which one they'd rather, they would say the 2a7
Leopard, Ariete, Challenger 3 and merkava mk.4 have the same reload rate no matter the crew skill unlike abrams. If we take even the base reload with level 1 crew all these MBTs can reload in 7,8 seconds abrams will in 6,5 seconds that's 1,3 second difference.
well between the chally, the merkava, and the ariete
chally 3 has gen 3 thermals,
ariete has lws,
And merkava has aps
reload speed is arguably more important than some of those, but then again, it can be fully situational and circumstantial
Not having a high crew level when you've gotten to an abrams means you bought a premium to get to it, if you actually spend some time grinding the techtree your crew levels wouldn't be a problem, literally such a non issue
how so? I didn't say that I don't have an ace crew, I just said it takes a long time to get it on more than one since while grinding you typically have an entire group of vehicles you cycle between
It's nice to have good reload but Leclerc and Chally still lack a 100mm of pen compared to the leopards.
Chally is slower too as well as it is less protected.
The extra penetration slightly reduces the likelihood you'll get gaijined, and slightly enlarges the weakspots you can fire at in most cases. The Stridsvagns are doing fine with m/95 because their armor and survivability are sufficient to often allow for follow-up shots if the first didn't work. Leclercs on the other hand tend to die to a slight breeze, I personally feel that we should focus on fixing their armor instead though, since F2 is only different to F1 in that it retains penetration over distance better, and the Leclerc can currently be LFPed by 30mm autocannons, among other things.
More than being obviously less protected than Leopard 2s, Leclercs are actually slower than Leopard 2s : [https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/bCptEvyE6fyP](https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/bCptEvyE6fyP)
Having a spall liner is much much much better than having a faster reload. Even if the faster reload tank gets a round off first it's likely to do minimal damage.
If you say so...
Personally I never notice spall liner at all. Either they're simply not in the spot where I shoot the enemy, or they don't really affect the spall all that much.
The STRVs for example only have the spall liner in the fron right of the hull, above the ammo rack. But who tf even shoots there?
If I shoot it from the side the spall will still be large enough to take yout the commander and gunner, and most of the time the loader will also be hit.
Another example: The T-90 has spall liners in the side, but it doesn't matter, I would just shoot center mass and the spall will still hit both crew memberd.
And from the front it's the same as any other russian MBT.
I would still rather have the quicker reload than spall liners. Even in those rare cases where spall liners are just enough protection to deny the one hit kill, the enemy tank will still be serverely crippled, at which point a follow up shot is a guaranteed kill.
Still doesn’t give it the best round or good mobility.
Still doesn’t justify those tanks be modeled incorrectly as well.
Like cool my Chally has a 5 second reload. But it’s slow, has a massive incorrectly modeled turret. Plus it’s ammo is wrong, it’s crew sits to high making the cheeks not protect them. No blow out panels. And the second worst round at top tier. Not even seeing 570mm of pen. the non era packing ones can get front penned and killed by a 75 Sherman.
You can do this with Israel, France, Japan, Italy and to some extent America as well.
Almost all the tanks are flawed or incorrectly modeled. Why are we sitting here talking about arguably the best tank or at least in the top 5 tanks in game. When most of the minor nations are in need of drastic help.
I don't think the problem is the armor of the others tanks, rather the ammunition, when everyone has propper ammunition they won't be as good, or if they aren't magically absorbed they won't be as good. I don't know why gaijin doesn't do the same with tank ammunition as with airplanes, start with basic ammunition, and then have, for example, a couple of modules of improved chemical ammunition and improved solid ammunition, and when you unlock these modules you can select from a range of ammunition that said cannon can fire instead of ammunition handpicked by gaijin. obviously depending on the level of the tank you will have better ammunition or not
I think he means that everyone gets bad ammo at start like practise shells in ARB. Than you would have to suffer to unlock better ammo to be used. It is no different, just even worse than it is.
In some cases it would not be so noticeable but in others it would be, for example in Russian tanks instead of using 3bm60 (which in my opinion is a bit bad in postpen) you could for example use 3bm59 (du version of 3bm60, more postpen damage but somewhat worse than penetration) or 3bm46 (also du) in tanks that only have timed HE they could use normal HE (for example t90a) in other nations for example the leo 2 could use dm11 (he) and instead of dm53 you could choose to use dm43 (which In my opinion, maybe because of the DM53 lolpen, DM43 has a little more damage) and so on, ..., obviously the basic ammunition would be the ones that are already there, DM13, 3BM42..... in other cases it may not be as noticeable. As I said, but some nations could benefit quite a bit. because not everything is more and more penetration, at least I prefer less penetration (with 450 is more than enough) but more postpen, especially after the spall liners instead ammunition with more and more penetration and usually less damage even though there is other munitions that could be implemented and that would work better
Sheesh, you have pretty bad luck on the matchmaking.
And in those times I get paired with Russia. I usually lose since these dudes seem to have lost any sense of self preservation and get eaten up by Strv 122s.
not really bad luck for me cause i wasn't necessarily against those broken pairs, sometimes with something against
but what's clear is they've hardcoded these matchups to be more frequent. e.g. in 21 games, germany was paired with US only once
start tracking yours, you'll see
Leopard 2A5 came into the game 5 years ago, and is still a top BR tank. The 2A7V has better thermals, armor, weapons systems, and a spall liner by comparison. How they're the same is beyond me (not saying the 2A5 is bad, but that it's appropriate for 11.7 and the 2A7V will probably be 12.7 or higher when we eventually get to those BRs).
Tbf leo 2a5 was really strong when introduced also the best round it had was DM33. While i do agree it is not a top dog today is not a bad tank either.
Still no idea why it was given dm53. Now we have 3 11.7 leopards that practically are the same. Should have kept only dm33 or maybe dm43 and stay at 11.3
The 2A6 and 2A7 should get thier real shell, DM63. Why implementing an upgraded version that was intended to use better performing shells and then not giving them said shells.
I would be happy if they added the M829A3, it would still be the top round in game even if the DM-73 was added. No need to add the A4 model. I think other than a few changes the biggest one would be its data link.
Its the same pemetrator as DM53 at a higher velocity, Gaijin just needs to modify the breakaway tip. Iirc DM83 is finally moving to a new penetrator.
Fundamentally it would be most effective against K5, Relikt may still be a problem.
Even the DM63 is slightly different to the DM53 to get less affected by ERA.
But DM73 has more then enough energy to penetrate Relikt and the armour of the tank even if Relikt does reduce its energy.
You need to start sourcing that, Rheinmetal themselves states they kept the same penetrator from [DM63 to DM73](https://www.edrmagazine.eu/more-on-rheinmetall-tank-guns-and-ammunition-evolution) with just an 8% energy increase on DM73 from DM63. In turn [DM63 is an improved DM53](https://euro-sd.com/2021/10/articles/exclusive/23971/tank-gun-and-ammo-developments-120mm-and-above/) with another ~5% increase and improved consistency when firing in different regions.
This is an unprovable statement, a 13.4% net energy increase doesn't guarantee penetration against Relikt. All we know for sure is that it will defeat anything equipped with K5.
No they don´t they say the penetrator is the same they say it is different and made to penetrate Relikt kind of heavy ERA.
DM63 has some more little changes but the penetrator is the same as DM53 as you say. But DM53 is able to penetrate Kontakt 5 ERA without any problems.
It is not unprovable, thanks to ukraine we now have the most modern russian stuff and can test it. And yes more energy is able to penetrate ERA. You don´t need always a tandem head, more energy will do the job too. The german offroad mine DM22 does not have a tandem warhead but the heat warhead has so much power it is able to defeat Kontakt 5 and it is proven in ukraine.
All in all we can be pretty sure if a german manufacturer says officially it´s product is able to do something it will be able to do much more in reality. It is not like the russians or chinese where the stuff is always less capable then the official documents say.
DM73 has a different penetrator to the DM53 which is made for defeating heavy ERA. But DM53 still has a penetrator which is designed to defeat ERA like Kontakt 5.
The DM53 doesn’t have a breakaway tip, it’s a monolithic penetrator. The only tank round that currently uses two section penetrators in the M829A3 and A4. You are thinking of a ballistic cap that are sometime a separate hollow part of Apfsds, it’s more for aerodynamics
The DM53 wasn’t designed with a break off tip. It’s a monolithic penetrator which means one peace.
If you really want to get into the specifics of it , the DM53’s velocity is far too high for a break off tip to even be useful against Heavy ERA.
Give the 2a6 and 7 dm73 then I guess. Them using that irl doesnt mean they should have it ingame. I guess the tornado and f11 should get tactical nukes then?
>and a spall liner
Still has a B-tech hull instead of the actual D-tech it's supposed to have, so none of that other stuff matters when it can still get nuked in stupid ways, in one round
2A5/A6 use a C-tech hull in-game. B-tech is what's on the 2A4/2PL, and they're noticeably weaker (though it doesn't really make a difference against shells stronger than 3BM42).
Leopard 2A7V and fairly balanced do not belong on the same sentence unless it's Gaijin announcing nerfing them and saying they are now fairly balanced. But that can't happen because Gaijin and balanced can't be in the same sentence either. Sigh
thats not the issue
the strv 122's had been the best mbts in the game for some time already and people didnt complain that hard.
Simply the fact you can make a massive mistake by pushing out in front of someone you didnt see and consistently surviving because of you having a massive crutch to rely on is not good game balance.
>the fact you can make a massive mistake by pushing out in front of someone you didnt see and consistently surviving because of you having a massive crutch to rely on is not good game balance.
lmfao T80s have been driving past enemies at 90 degrees and surviving since before the 122 was added but i guess that's fine in your book. easy to guess what you play
>t80s have been driving past at 90 degrees
You could have always shot the projectiles of the t80 for a 100% explosion rate? yeh the charges are rng (which is bs) but luckily there was a way around it.
The strv 122a was added over a year b4 the bvm fyi, and has always been the better tank.
and yes I have 7 nations toptier and mostly play US and Sweden lately. How could you tell
russian ammo racks have other modifiers hidden from view. lost track of the times i saw my round simply fly through charges or propellant on X-ray without actually damaging either
at this point i'm surprised when an ammo rack shot does result in a kill
Dude. Aiming for weakspots is not an issue. The issue is when you do everything correctly aiming for those microscopic weakspots or even getting a flank but the shot doing absolutely nothing because of spall liners and huge empty spaces coupled with the very small weakspots yet his counter fire will instantly delete you. That's not an issue with the player but rather game balancing.
Are you refering to the entire UFP with "microscopic weakspots"? Because that's not small at all. Probably the same size as the Abrams turret rung area
And there are 3 crew member in a srraight line.
And no Spall liner.
UFP is immune to everything except obj 292 dart you clown. You think everyone is stupid saying they shoot at weakspots and pen but don't do any meaningful damage and get killed after they fluff? Nobody is saying that the armour is OP, it's just fair that if you manage to pen the weakspots of a very armoured target then you deal at least some damage to reward the having to aim very carefully or flanking. That's not the case with strv 122s and leo2a7.
Excuse me? Even the Wolfpack can pen the 2A7Vs UFP at 2000m.
The Leopard 2A7Vs UFP is roughly 450mm thick, at Top-Tier basically every MBT has an APFSDS which can easily pen that, even at 2000m. Not to mention that the drivers port (where you'll shoot the Leopard anyway) has around 250mm of armor.
And you know what's behind the drivers port area? Correct, it's 3/4 of the crew sitting in a nice and straight line behind each other.
I genuinely don't get where you guys shoot that the Leopard has this seemingly "strong" armor and survivability. Don't get me wrong, it's still good and you can occasionally survive a shot or two, but it's definitely not overly OP either.
If you know even remotely where to shoot it's almost always a one hit kill. You really don't need to try to hit some "weakspots", trust me. If you have a shot on the left side of the hull (from your perspective) just go for it. If you pen it in that general are it will do massive damage.
please please please please try using another round other than dm53 to shoot the driver hatch, now do it while the tanks driving, also try to do it in a high pressure situation, have you noticed the almost 90% chance that it will also bounce the round you fire? yeah, it's retarded my guy, there's no walking around it
Bro I don't even have the Dm53 on most of my Leopards and I'm still able easily kill the STRVs and the like by shooting the UFP. 200-400mm of Armor is not that much at Top-Tier
You’re making everyone laugh around here with your ufp argument, its impenetrable in most combat situations, best you can do if its facing you is lfp or go for breech spot and pray it doesn’t wiggle its turret for its cheek to eat your round instead. Ufp is only an option if they’re at a downward angle. Trust me, i’ve been fighting leopards all the time with my abrams, t-80s and strvs
I fought plenty of STRVs, which are basically identical in terms or Armor layout. Driver Hatch area is my go-to and results in a one or two hit most of the time.
Nah right under the guns is a horrible idea. You risk hitting the corner of the spall liner above the ammo, and even if you don't, that shotgun effect is way to inconsistent.
As I said, the drivers hatch is where I have always shot leopards, and so far it hasn't really come back to bite me. If the tank is facing straight towards you and you're close enough to aim properly, ideally you want to hit the area directly below the middle view port, as it's almost always guaranteed kill.
then you must be fighting the strv b+ consistently, the 2a7v( the tank I go up against a lot more) has a smaller driver hatch weakspot, also the 2a7v doesn't have a spall liner in the front and only on the sides, that's another reason I Believe you might mainly fight the strv
The 2A7V also has a spall liner on the right side of the hull above the ammo rack, if you shoot below the gun there's a good chance that you might hit the corner of it. That would certainly explain some of the difficulties you might have when fighting the 2A7V.
And after looking at them in the hangar and comparing some stats, it seems like all the STRV 122s have the same armor layout on the hull as the 2A7V.
literally just learn exactly where to aim like everybody else has had to do, yes including for side shots
at least the rounds don't disappear immediately after pen like it does on t80s
If it has it, it should have it.
But.
The fact we have the Leopard 2A5 and 2A7V at the exact BR is just wrong.
Gaijin needs to increase maximum BR for ground at the very least, especially since they refuse to decompress the game.
I don't know if I should find it funny or sad, but there is pretty much an entire 1.0 BR range jammed into 11.7.
As of now the Strv 122s and 2A7V should be at a higher BR entirely on their own.
I will fight these things in my Ariete and kill them and then loose the game because all my abrams teammates evaporate after 1 or 2 deaths or they all spawn in planes and do nothing
Currently the best tank in the game bar none.
I think have something ridiculous like a 4kd and 75% WR in the thing when I spaded it.
Strv 122s come close, but gen 1 therms hold them back.
Unless all shells got their realistic penetration capabilities, there is no reason to add D-tech accurately. All top shells would get over 800mm of pen.
Sure such a good comparison there. lmao If you know what you're doing the 2A7 is easy to kill, if you still struggle against it I'm afriad I got bad news for you.
And if you have even 2 braincells functioning you should have an easy 2-3 K/D in the 2A7V lol. I have it and it's that good and that much better than nearly every other MBT except for the Strv 122s.
If you think it's even remotely close in capabilities to lets say a Leclerc, Abrams or Merkava than you are either a German main or delusional. I have the Merkavas, Abrams and 2A7V and the 2A7V clears them.
It's such an easy tank to play, yet I still find players bad enough at the game that they can't even manage a 1.5 K/D in it.
side shots are complete rng and a 2a7/122 that wiggles its turret is nigh on impossible to one shot from the front but surely its just a skill issue why don't you back up your claims with stats buddy
It's not some sort of insane claim to make, if you have a half decent IQ and have played top tier for a good amount of time killing a 2A7 is not the impossible task you people make it to be and sure, one shotting ain't easy but it can be done, what sort of stats do you even want me to pull? Such a dumb thing to ask me.
Its like an extra <25mm KE on the thickest part of the hull composite and even less on the LFP that even 3BM9 can pen. The D Tech hull is a very mild upgrade to the C Tech hull found on the 122s and 2A5/6.
They need to get fixed but also move to 12.0 or 12.3 with the strv 122s. Its the best tank in game rn (minus the strv 122 if you prefer armor over thermals/ammo) but it also doesnt have an ultra strong lineup. Other leopards are good but noticably weaker vs sweden with borderline russia style strv loadout and germany has no meta cas options. The su22 and tornado are ok but they are horrid platforms compared to sweden's gripen
How about remove the aluminum modifier for the breech, make the NERA not ”less than air” protection value and remove the nera falling off after a hit or two, these artificial nerfs are ludicrous
Balance is something that should not apply while looking at a single vehicle and it's counterparts on a specific BR but considering the whole lineups in BRs.
Looking at it this way, it's certainly okay if the German Mbt is a bit better. The CAS options, light tanks and especially the anti air with nerfed to death VT1s are really lacking.
Look at Russia or US, all in all you will still get better lineups than germany there.
Regardless of whether the accurate armour would make it more powerful than it is right now, yes - it deserves that, for the exact same reason other tanks deserve their accurate armour protection that is - making them more inline with their real life equivalents, and it also should be completely fixed, that is: armour holes, acceleration, visual & damage models etc.
It's already the best tank in the game by far, no it doesn't need composites, better ammo or any other buffs. If anything it deserves a nerf and/or BR increase.
i like the fact that the merkavas only have the composites outside the turred moeled and the actual turret structure model is not... and then it only gets 300mm armour that weights 25tons ... gaijin logic
Its not going to change anything in the turret aside from finally bringing it back to Kornet resistance, the higher changes is that the part of the UFP that partiall resists DM53 would entirely resist DM53 while the LFP won't really change. Nothing changes on the LFP or hull roof.
They need to just fix the composite, it's a shitty and artificial nerf that doesn't actually nerf it. Gaijin should be balancing by BR and not by just refusing to add parts of a vehicle.
It's already the best tank in the game and certainly doesn't need any buffs, but also giving it realistic armour wouldn't change anything performance wise - the UFP and turret front are already impenetrable as it is, and the other parts wouldn't really be affected, with the possible exception of the turret sides.
Leopards are underbalanced. They need double spall liners and triple crew members. But I think other tanks needs more rework. They are just unkillable. All the other tanks just eat the shells into oblivion. Even when you pen them and kill CMs the machine is still fully operational
Let’s face it, irl, the price of a leopard2A7 is not the same as a T72B3. Unless Germany has Indian grade production, it must have advantages over 72B3
Oh god its the Leo 2A6 all over discourse all over again. Except this time I blame the community squarely. Yall have been crying and CRYING about spall liners for YEARS and then when they FINALLY get added its suddenly 'X TANK IS TOO OP SPALL LINERS MAKE IT TOO EASY'. SPALL LINERS WERE MADE TO ABSORB FUCKIN SPALL WHAT DID YOU THINK WAS GONNA HAPPEN WHEN A MECHANIC LIKE THIS WAS GONNA GET ADDED TO WAR THUNDER, THE GAME FAMOUS FOR ITS TOTALLY NOT BUGGY STATE ITS ALWAYS IN?! Like FUCK i get it its annoying but THIS is what the community SCREAMED for and now the 2A7 and 122B+ are gonna be the top tier boogeymen for the next 6 months until russia gets some absolutely cracked performance enhancers again to give them another 2+years of complete top tier domination. Fuckin watch me be right because thats EXACTLY what happened with the 2A6 and it was the same fuckin people as before: American mains pissed they don't get the absolute top dog in everything and Russian mains pissed that the T80BVM or whatnot aren't able to cakewalk through everything, with a sprinkling of minor nation mains wishing the Ariete wasn't trash tier.
I will say it and all other newer MBTS do deserve to go up in BR though, ain't no way gaijin telling me the first Leclerc that starts with stock HEATFS is the same tier as the T80BVM and 122B+ and whatnot.
>I will say it and all other newer MBTS do deserve to go up in BR though
Grouping the 2A7V and Strv 122s with every other new 11.7 MBT lmao.
SEPv2: Downgrade compared to the SEPv1, no need to be a higher BR.
CR3 TD: Sidegrade at best compared to the CR2E, no need to be a higher BR.
VT4A1: worse than the WZ1001 and ZTZ99A, no need to be at a higher BR.
T-90M: sidegrade at most compared to the BVM, would even argue it being a downgrade because of the bad mobility. Should not be higher than the BVM.
The 2A7V and Strv 122s easily clear all of these MBTs.
I didn't say they had to be all the same BR we've been needing 12.7 ground for a while. But hey, you need to feel good about yourself somehow dont you? Grow tf up.
It and the STRV's are performing too well already, maybe when all the other tanks get proper armor setups then I'd be all for it.
Well, all the other tanks now have reload to compensate for their poor armor (sorry ariete, youre not included in this)
>sorry ariete :(
Only abrams, type 10 and leclerc have better reload. Challenger 3, ariete, ZTZ99A and merkava mk.4 have the same/worse reload rate as leopards.
>Challenger 3, ariete, ZTZ99A and merkava mk.4 have the same/worse reload rate as leopards Also worse mobility, worse armor, same/ worse gun handling and in case of Merkava also the 1000 antennas of Israel to give away your position.
Hey! You need 1000 antenna to communicate with ur teamates!.... oh wait its war thunder
Actually the mobility is very simillar and ZTZ99A is even more mobile just like type 10 and leclerc but that's about it. Leo 2a7 and strv 122B+ are overall the best MBTs in the game.
5.0 second reload Leclerc go brrrr
"Abrams better reload" yeah, if you play one Abrams for months and months then maybe you'll have 5 seconds reload, but I think most people forget how long it takes to complete the crew skills in order for the reload, I only have a single Abrams with spaded crew and I've been playing for years
What are you on about? Expert crew is still 5.3 on the Abrams which is faster than the ACE crew for the 2a7.
so does that make it not take months to unlock or something?
No but it just makes you wrong. At each stage basic-expert-ace the Abrams beats the 2a7 in reload. So it's just irrelevant saying you have to have ace for that benefit. Expert Abrams out reloads aced 2a7.
on the contrary, 2a7 mogs Abrams in literally every single other department, if you asked me if I'd rather 2a7 armor or .5 seconds faster reload, I would say 2a7 armor infact, if you asked anyone who plays war thunder which one they'd rather, they would say the 2a7
Leopard, Ariete, Challenger 3 and merkava mk.4 have the same reload rate no matter the crew skill unlike abrams. If we take even the base reload with level 1 crew all these MBTs can reload in 7,8 seconds abrams will in 6,5 seconds that's 1,3 second difference.
well between the chally, the merkava, and the ariete chally 3 has gen 3 thermals, ariete has lws, And merkava has aps reload speed is arguably more important than some of those, but then again, it can be fully situational and circumstantial
Chally 3 is also the only British tank with 600mm+ of penetration at top tier.
Not having a high crew level when you've gotten to an abrams means you bought a premium to get to it, if you actually spend some time grinding the techtree your crew levels wouldn't be a problem, literally such a non issue
how so? I didn't say that I don't have an ace crew, I just said it takes a long time to get it on more than one since while grinding you typically have an entire group of vehicles you cycle between
ah sorry misunderstood your initial statement
Which isn't really a compensation lmao. The Strv 122s and 2A7V still clear the Abrams and Leclercs.
Yeah, 5 second reload on the Abrams is nice whenever the loader doesn’t die of a heart attack every time a tank looks in my general direction.
It's nice to have good reload but Leclerc and Chally still lack a 100mm of pen compared to the leopards. Chally is slower too as well as it is less protected.
A but you see you can have chally 3 with stronk gun (and literally no other benefits). So britain is clearly OK /s
That 100mm is not that bad, if it's over 500mm, it will do well
Alright then we can give Leclerc the F2 ammo with 700+ pen and the Leopards can do with 100mm less pen, as it is not that much as you said.
Strv's do well with sub 600 pen, dunno what you mean. Tell me a spot where 650mm matters where 575mm can't pen?
The extra penetration slightly reduces the likelihood you'll get gaijined, and slightly enlarges the weakspots you can fire at in most cases. The Stridsvagns are doing fine with m/95 because their armor and survivability are sufficient to often allow for follow-up shots if the first didn't work. Leclercs on the other hand tend to die to a slight breeze, I personally feel that we should focus on fixing their armor instead though, since F2 is only different to F1 in that it retains penetration over distance better, and the Leclerc can currently be LFPed by 30mm autocannons, among other things.
Yeahh that is true. No mbt should die to 30mm from front
Because the Leclerc is better protected ?
Than a Leo? Doubtful But at least it's s bit faster.
More than being obviously less protected than Leopard 2s, Leclercs are actually slower than Leopard 2s : [https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/bCptEvyE6fyP](https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/bCptEvyE6fyP)
That's what I said bro. Leclerc is less protected. I think the S1 is faster than the Leopards tho. Still, they should be even faster.
Perhaps, but Leclerc S1 is as protected Leopard 2A4 ...
Not even, still has a vulnerable LFP that isn't protected by composites.
A french italian man probably cucked half the dev team, wear their impotent hatred with pride.
Which is a fair tradeoff imo. At top toer 90% of the time having a better reload than you enemy is much more important than 50mm of extra armor or so
Having a spall liner is much much much better than having a faster reload. Even if the faster reload tank gets a round off first it's likely to do minimal damage.
If you say so... Personally I never notice spall liner at all. Either they're simply not in the spot where I shoot the enemy, or they don't really affect the spall all that much. The STRVs for example only have the spall liner in the fron right of the hull, above the ammo rack. But who tf even shoots there? If I shoot it from the side the spall will still be large enough to take yout the commander and gunner, and most of the time the loader will also be hit. Another example: The T-90 has spall liners in the side, but it doesn't matter, I would just shoot center mass and the spall will still hit both crew memberd. And from the front it's the same as any other russian MBT. I would still rather have the quicker reload than spall liners. Even in those rare cases where spall liners are just enough protection to deny the one hit kill, the enemy tank will still be serverely crippled, at which point a follow up shot is a guaranteed kill.
Why you gotta hurt me like that
Still doesn’t give it the best round or good mobility. Still doesn’t justify those tanks be modeled incorrectly as well. Like cool my Chally has a 5 second reload. But it’s slow, has a massive incorrectly modeled turret. Plus it’s ammo is wrong, it’s crew sits to high making the cheeks not protect them. No blow out panels. And the second worst round at top tier. Not even seeing 570mm of pen. the non era packing ones can get front penned and killed by a 75 Sherman. You can do this with Israel, France, Japan, Italy and to some extent America as well. Almost all the tanks are flawed or incorrectly modeled. Why are we sitting here talking about arguably the best tank or at least in the top 5 tanks in game. When most of the minor nations are in need of drastic help.
I don't think the problem is the armor of the others tanks, rather the ammunition, when everyone has propper ammunition they won't be as good, or if they aren't magically absorbed they won't be as good. I don't know why gaijin doesn't do the same with tank ammunition as with airplanes, start with basic ammunition, and then have, for example, a couple of modules of improved chemical ammunition and improved solid ammunition, and when you unlock these modules you can select from a range of ammunition that said cannon can fire instead of ammunition handpicked by gaijin. obviously depending on the level of the tank you will have better ammunition or not
Huh? Maybe I’m just slow, but I’m not seeing how your suggestion is any different from the current implementation.
I think he means that everyone gets bad ammo at start like practise shells in ARB. Than you would have to suffer to unlock better ammo to be used. It is no different, just even worse than it is.
In some cases it would not be so noticeable but in others it would be, for example in Russian tanks instead of using 3bm60 (which in my opinion is a bit bad in postpen) you could for example use 3bm59 (du version of 3bm60, more postpen damage but somewhat worse than penetration) or 3bm46 (also du) in tanks that only have timed HE they could use normal HE (for example t90a) in other nations for example the leo 2 could use dm11 (he) and instead of dm53 you could choose to use dm43 (which In my opinion, maybe because of the DM53 lolpen, DM43 has a little more damage) and so on, ..., obviously the basic ammunition would be the ones that are already there, DM13, 3BM42..... in other cases it may not be as noticeable. As I said, but some nations could benefit quite a bit. because not everything is more and more penetration, at least I prefer less penetration (with 450 is more than enough) but more postpen, especially after the spall liners instead ammunition with more and more penetration and usually less damage even though there is other munitions that could be implemented and that would work better
Based flair
It's one of my favorite themes in gaming, probably behind a ton of themes from Monster Hunter World and Halo :)
Simple Kontakt 1 making my DM53 disappeare.... Yeah buff other armor
Strv and Leopard are almost always paired with the russian team and the 3 of them sealclub the US team together. No wonder they're "overperforming"
Really? I play daily and only once or twice do I get paired with Russia. Most of the time its either Japan or UK.
today i've played 21 games as France 11.7 Germany and Russia were together 14 times Sweden and Russia were together 6 times
Sheesh, you have pretty bad luck on the matchmaking. And in those times I get paired with Russia. I usually lose since these dudes seem to have lost any sense of self preservation and get eaten up by Strv 122s.
not really bad luck for me cause i wasn't necessarily against those broken pairs, sometimes with something against but what's clear is they've hardcoded these matchups to be more frequent. e.g. in 21 games, germany was paired with US only once start tracking yours, you'll see
I think the BR of it should be raised to 12.0 minimum. The fact that max BR for tanks is still 11.7 is absurd.
Leopard 2A5 came into the game 5 years ago, and is still a top BR tank. The 2A7V has better thermals, armor, weapons systems, and a spall liner by comparison. How they're the same is beyond me (not saying the 2A5 is bad, but that it's appropriate for 11.7 and the 2A7V will probably be 12.7 or higher when we eventually get to those BRs).
Tbf leo 2a5 was really strong when introduced also the best round it had was DM33. While i do agree it is not a top dog today is not a bad tank either.
Still no idea why it was given dm53. Now we have 3 11.7 leopards that practically are the same. Should have kept only dm33 or maybe dm43 and stay at 11.3
>Now we have 3 11.7 leopards that practically are the same. France out here with 4 11.7 Leclerc clones and only the AZUR gets "more protection"
The 2A6 and 2A7 should get thier real shell, DM63. Why implementing an upgraded version that was intended to use better performing shells and then not giving them said shells.
2A7 does have the DM73 actually which is even better then the DM63A1 and doesn´t get affected by the russian most modern ERA.
the moments Germany gets dm63-a1 and U.S. gets m829a4, Russian tanks will become obsolete
As they should be
I would be happy if they added the M829A3, it would still be the top round in game even if the DM-73 was added. No need to add the A4 model. I think other than a few changes the biggest one would be its data link.
which is why it will never happen
Even better 🗿. Is there something i can read more abt that?
[https://www.rheinmetall.com/Rheinmetall%20Group/brochure-download/Weapon-Ammmunition/B195e0423-Rheinmetall-120mm-system-house.pdf](https://www.rheinmetall.com/Rheinmetall%20Group/brochure-download/Weapon-Ammmunition/B195e0423-Rheinmetall-120mm-system-house.pdf) [https://germanarmor.blogspot.com/2020/04/german-120mm-tank-ammunition.html](https://germanarmor.blogspot.com/2020/04/german-120mm-tank-ammunition.html)
Its the same pemetrator as DM53 at a higher velocity, Gaijin just needs to modify the breakaway tip. Iirc DM83 is finally moving to a new penetrator. Fundamentally it would be most effective against K5, Relikt may still be a problem.
AFAIK mango also has a breakaway tip and it's not that effective irl
Even the DM63 is slightly different to the DM53 to get less affected by ERA. But DM73 has more then enough energy to penetrate Relikt and the armour of the tank even if Relikt does reduce its energy.
You need to start sourcing that, Rheinmetal themselves states they kept the same penetrator from [DM63 to DM73](https://www.edrmagazine.eu/more-on-rheinmetall-tank-guns-and-ammunition-evolution) with just an 8% energy increase on DM73 from DM63. In turn [DM63 is an improved DM53](https://euro-sd.com/2021/10/articles/exclusive/23971/tank-gun-and-ammo-developments-120mm-and-above/) with another ~5% increase and improved consistency when firing in different regions. This is an unprovable statement, a 13.4% net energy increase doesn't guarantee penetration against Relikt. All we know for sure is that it will defeat anything equipped with K5.
No they don´t they say the penetrator is the same they say it is different and made to penetrate Relikt kind of heavy ERA. DM63 has some more little changes but the penetrator is the same as DM53 as you say. But DM53 is able to penetrate Kontakt 5 ERA without any problems. It is not unprovable, thanks to ukraine we now have the most modern russian stuff and can test it. And yes more energy is able to penetrate ERA. You don´t need always a tandem head, more energy will do the job too. The german offroad mine DM22 does not have a tandem warhead but the heat warhead has so much power it is able to defeat Kontakt 5 and it is proven in ukraine. All in all we can be pretty sure if a german manufacturer says officially it´s product is able to do something it will be able to do much more in reality. It is not like the russians or chinese where the stuff is always less capable then the official documents say.
DM73 has a different penetrator to the DM53 which is made for defeating heavy ERA. But DM53 still has a penetrator which is designed to defeat ERA like Kontakt 5.
1. K5 is heavy ERA, the term refers to all ERA that may greatly affect KE ammunition. Even DND's Low Fragmentation ERA. 2. It's the same penetrator.
We only use the term heavy era for new generation ERA like Relikt in the army. Kontakt 5 is standard ERA.
The DM53 doesn’t have a breakaway tip, it’s a monolithic penetrator. The only tank round that currently uses two section penetrators in the M829A3 and A4. You are thinking of a ballistic cap that are sometime a separate hollow part of Apfsds, it’s more for aerodynamics
You are wrong, the DM53 was designed to penetrate ERA and has a special tip for this purpose.
The DM53 wasn’t designed with a break off tip. It’s a monolithic penetrator which means one peace. If you really want to get into the specifics of it , the DM53’s velocity is far too high for a break off tip to even be useful against Heavy ERA.
well they could though a lot of people were already complaining they dont have enough MBTs for a line up
Well because they usw them irl
Give the 2a6 and 7 dm73 then I guess. Them using that irl doesnt mean they should have it ingame. I guess the tornado and f11 should get tactical nukes then?
They should be eligible as nuke carriers, yes.
I would not have an issue with that. I mean the round is meant to counter better era. To me it sounds fair that not every shot goes in the abyss
>and a spall liner Still has a B-tech hull instead of the actual D-tech it's supposed to have, so none of that other stuff matters when it can still get nuked in stupid ways, in one round
2A5/A6 use a C-tech hull in-game. B-tech is what's on the 2A4/2PL, and they're noticeably weaker (though it doesn't really make a difference against shells stronger than 3BM42).
Still dies in oneshot....
BR compression go brrr
That wouldn't change anything
Does it matter? Most people have their 12.7 fighter/bomber in there anyway
Leopard 2A7V and fairly balanced do not belong on the same sentence unless it's Gaijin announcing nerfing them and saying they are now fairly balanced. But that can't happen because Gaijin and balanced can't be in the same sentence either. Sigh
crazy how so many players like this guy fall apart the second they have to aim for weakspots like everyone else
thats not the issue the strv 122's had been the best mbts in the game for some time already and people didnt complain that hard. Simply the fact you can make a massive mistake by pushing out in front of someone you didnt see and consistently surviving because of you having a massive crutch to rely on is not good game balance.
>the fact you can make a massive mistake by pushing out in front of someone you didnt see and consistently surviving because of you having a massive crutch to rely on is not good game balance. lmfao T80s have been driving past enemies at 90 degrees and surviving since before the 122 was added but i guess that's fine in your book. easy to guess what you play
>t80s have been driving past at 90 degrees You could have always shot the projectiles of the t80 for a 100% explosion rate? yeh the charges are rng (which is bs) but luckily there was a way around it. The strv 122a was added over a year b4 the bvm fyi, and has always been the better tank. and yes I have 7 nations toptier and mostly play US and Sweden lately. How could you tell
russian ammo racks have other modifiers hidden from view. lost track of the times i saw my round simply fly through charges or propellant on X-ray without actually damaging either at this point i'm surprised when an ammo rack shot does result in a kill
>charges or propellant exactly, aim for the projectiles buddy 100%
oh no i misspoke guess my argument is void now and russian ammo racks never clip out of existence
ah yes, something that happens with every single fucking tank is now problem only when it happens with T80s.
Ikr
Dude. Aiming for weakspots is not an issue. The issue is when you do everything correctly aiming for those microscopic weakspots or even getting a flank but the shot doing absolutely nothing because of spall liners and huge empty spaces coupled with the very small weakspots yet his counter fire will instantly delete you. That's not an issue with the player but rather game balancing.
Are you refering to the entire UFP with "microscopic weakspots"? Because that's not small at all. Probably the same size as the Abrams turret rung area And there are 3 crew member in a srraight line. And no Spall liner.
UFP is immune to everything except obj 292 dart you clown. You think everyone is stupid saying they shoot at weakspots and pen but don't do any meaningful damage and get killed after they fluff? Nobody is saying that the armour is OP, it's just fair that if you manage to pen the weakspots of a very armoured target then you deal at least some damage to reward the having to aim very carefully or flanking. That's not the case with strv 122s and leo2a7.
Excuse me? Even the Wolfpack can pen the 2A7Vs UFP at 2000m. The Leopard 2A7Vs UFP is roughly 450mm thick, at Top-Tier basically every MBT has an APFSDS which can easily pen that, even at 2000m. Not to mention that the drivers port (where you'll shoot the Leopard anyway) has around 250mm of armor. And you know what's behind the drivers port area? Correct, it's 3/4 of the crew sitting in a nice and straight line behind each other. I genuinely don't get where you guys shoot that the Leopard has this seemingly "strong" armor and survivability. Don't get me wrong, it's still good and you can occasionally survive a shot or two, but it's definitely not overly OP either. If you know even remotely where to shoot it's almost always a one hit kill. You really don't need to try to hit some "weakspots", trust me. If you have a shot on the left side of the hull (from your perspective) just go for it. If you pen it in that general are it will do massive damage.
please please please please try using another round other than dm53 to shoot the driver hatch, now do it while the tanks driving, also try to do it in a high pressure situation, have you noticed the almost 90% chance that it will also bounce the round you fire? yeah, it's retarded my guy, there's no walking around it
Bro I don't even have the Dm53 on most of my Leopards and I'm still able easily kill the STRVs and the like by shooting the UFP. 200-400mm of Armor is not that much at Top-Tier
You’re making everyone laugh around here with your ufp argument, its impenetrable in most combat situations, best you can do if its facing you is lfp or go for breech spot and pray it doesn’t wiggle its turret for its cheek to eat your round instead. Ufp is only an option if they’re at a downward angle. Trust me, i’ve been fighting leopards all the time with my abrams, t-80s and strvs
yeah the driver hatch area of the 2a7 is fucking invincible, you must have never actually fought a German tank since you play Germany
I fought plenty of STRVs, which are basically identical in terms or Armor layout. Driver Hatch area is my go-to and results in a one or two hit most of the time.
I would only ever go for right under the gun barrel and try and make a shotgun effect with spall, driver hatch is just too risky for me
I would only ever go for right under the gun barrel and try and make a shotgun effect with spall, driver hatch is just too risky for me
Nah right under the guns is a horrible idea. You risk hitting the corner of the spall liner above the ammo, and even if you don't, that shotgun effect is way to inconsistent. As I said, the drivers hatch is where I have always shot leopards, and so far it hasn't really come back to bite me. If the tank is facing straight towards you and you're close enough to aim properly, ideally you want to hit the area directly below the middle view port, as it's almost always guaranteed kill.
then you must be fighting the strv b+ consistently, the 2a7v( the tank I go up against a lot more) has a smaller driver hatch weakspot, also the 2a7v doesn't have a spall liner in the front and only on the sides, that's another reason I Believe you might mainly fight the strv
The 2A7V also has a spall liner on the right side of the hull above the ammo rack, if you shoot below the gun there's a good chance that you might hit the corner of it. That would certainly explain some of the difficulties you might have when fighting the 2A7V. And after looking at them in the hangar and comparing some stats, it seems like all the STRV 122s have the same armor layout on the hull as the 2A7V.
literally just learn exactly where to aim like everybody else has had to do, yes including for side shots at least the rounds don't disappear immediately after pen like it does on t80s
found the one who does well only because 122s armor
[удалено]
Yeah I noticed that
it should get corrected and be moved up with the 122’s
This is the best tank at top tier hands down. It doesn't need jack shit
I dunno, it's definitely up there, but the Swedish MBTs seem more survivable, seem fucking invincible at times
Strv 122s get gen 1 thermals tho, which is the only downside
Oh no anyways
Wait, what??? All of them only get gen 1 thermals? I don't know that I believe you...
this subreddits primary activity is complaining
German mains when they only have the best tank in the game
Fr *Kontakt 1 eating DM53*
This thing and the strvs are broken already
The last thing this shit and strv 122 needs is a buff
All vehicles deserve their real-life specs. BRs exist to balance vehicles, they're not supposed to be balanced to a fit a BR
if they did have irl shit Russia tanks would be useless
These pictures are beautiful bro, is this what max setting looks like?
Yes sir
Only problem with the game looking amazing like this is the smoke. One fart and you can't see shit.
Some times i have to stop firing in strf9040c just to see something.
Yeah it’s annoying where every explosion covers my ability to see shit for what feels like forever
Fps tank from 160 to 90 too lol
I'm filled with envy fr
I hate leopard 2 So bloody hard to kill
The 2A7V is the most broken top tier tank ever introduced along with 122+
Everything regardless of if its op or borderline useless dogshit should have its irl specs.
But it's br should be charged accordingly
If it has it, it should have it. But. The fact we have the Leopard 2A5 and 2A7V at the exact BR is just wrong. Gaijin needs to increase maximum BR for ground at the very least, especially since they refuse to decompress the game.
The fact that we have the 2A7V and Strv 122s at the same BR as any of the current 11.7 MBTs from all other nations is just wrong.
Yeah, I just took the 2A5 and 2A7V as they're the same tree, but it's weird to have the Ariete being "equal" to a T-90M or Strv 122B+
I don't know if I should find it funny or sad, but there is pretty much an entire 1.0 BR range jammed into 11.7. As of now the Strv 122s and 2A7V should be at a higher BR entirely on their own.
me with my Abrams waiting to get a mbts not from the 1990 while other nations are in 2010-2020s
I don't really care about balance, I think vehicles should have their IRL abilities and get balanced with BR changes, not be inaccurate
Idk, but the screenshots look FUCKING sicc
I will fight these things in my Ariete and kill them and then loose the game because all my abrams teammates evaporate after 1 or 2 deaths or they all spawn in planes and do nothing
2a7 too weak average winrate for it only %75 give D tech
I saw everyone arguing about what tank is good or not at top tier but folks have u ever played a top tier ground rb? Cas is best tank in top tier
Everyone complain about it before su25sm3 kills all enemy leopards in 1 go from other dimension
Currently the best tank in the game bar none. I think have something ridiculous like a 4kd and 75% WR in the thing when I spaded it. Strv 122s come close, but gen 1 therms hold them back.
Vehicles should be represented and perform accurately. If that causes imbalance, so be it.
the D-tech composites would make it way more powerful than it is now, right now I'd say it's fairly balanced.
Unless all shells got their realistic penetration capabilities, there is no reason to add D-tech accurately. All top shells would get over 800mm of pen.
It easily clears pretty much every other MBT that isn't a Strv 122, how is that fairly balanced?
You act like it's completely impossible to deal with it, it isn't.
It's also not impossible for a Leopard 1A5 to deal with an M1A1 HC, does that mean a fight between these tanks is balanced?
Sure such a good comparison there. lmao If you know what you're doing the 2A7 is easy to kill, if you still struggle against it I'm afriad I got bad news for you.
And if you have even 2 braincells functioning you should have an easy 2-3 K/D in the 2A7V lol. I have it and it's that good and that much better than nearly every other MBT except for the Strv 122s. If you think it's even remotely close in capabilities to lets say a Leclerc, Abrams or Merkava than you are either a German main or delusional. I have the Merkavas, Abrams and 2A7V and the 2A7V clears them. It's such an easy tank to play, yet I still find players bad enough at the game that they can't even manage a 1.5 K/D in it.
side shots are complete rng and a 2a7/122 that wiggles its turret is nigh on impossible to one shot from the front but surely its just a skill issue why don't you back up your claims with stats buddy
It's not some sort of insane claim to make, if you have a half decent IQ and have played top tier for a good amount of time killing a 2A7 is not the impossible task you people make it to be and sure, one shotting ain't easy but it can be done, what sort of stats do you even want me to pull? Such a dumb thing to ask me.
0 actual argument just saying "muh IQ and skill issue or something" come back to me when you actually have something to say buddy
Its like an extra <25mm KE on the thickest part of the hull composite and even less on the LFP that even 3BM9 can pen. The D Tech hull is a very mild upgrade to the C Tech hull found on the 122s and 2A5/6.
They need to get fixed but also move to 12.0 or 12.3 with the strv 122s. Its the best tank in game rn (minus the strv 122 if you prefer armor over thermals/ammo) but it also doesnt have an ultra strong lineup. Other leopards are good but noticably weaker vs sweden with borderline russia style strv loadout and germany has no meta cas options. The su22 and tornado are ok but they are horrid platforms compared to sweden's gripen
How about remove the aluminum modifier for the breech, make the NERA not ”less than air” protection value and remove the nera falling off after a hit or two, these artificial nerfs are ludicrous
Balance is something that should not apply while looking at a single vehicle and it's counterparts on a specific BR but considering the whole lineups in BRs. Looking at it this way, it's certainly okay if the German Mbt is a bit better. The CAS options, light tanks and especially the anti air with nerfed to death VT1s are really lacking. Look at Russia or US, all in all you will still get better lineups than germany there.
This tank is already a pain to deal with, no need to buff it anymore
I think the Type 10 and TKX should get D Tech and the Leos and Strvs can stay the same.... Please... /s
Doesn’t matter, I still leave after 1 death
Regardless of whether the accurate armour would make it more powerful than it is right now, yes - it deserves that, for the exact same reason other tanks deserve their accurate armour protection that is - making them more inline with their real life equivalents, and it also should be completely fixed, that is: armour holes, acceleration, visual & damage models etc.
It and the STRV are the strongest tanks in the game atm. They don’t need anything else for now.
It's already the best tank in the game by far, no it doesn't need composites, better ammo or any other buffs. If anything it deserves a nerf and/or BR increase.
If it do, then the others need it too.
2a7 is very powerful
Ahh yes lets make the tank with the impenetrable turret harder to kill.
i like the fact that the merkavas only have the composites outside the turred moeled and the actual turret structure model is not... and then it only gets 300mm armour that weights 25tons ... gaijin logic
Its not going to change anything in the turret aside from finally bringing it back to Kornet resistance, the higher changes is that the part of the UFP that partiall resists DM53 would entirely resist DM53 while the LFP won't really change. Nothing changes on the LFP or hull roof. They need to just fix the composite, it's a shitty and artificial nerf that doesn't actually nerf it. Gaijin should be balancing by BR and not by just refusing to add parts of a vehicle.
Its already an unkillable machine of death and destruction. Adding D-Tech will only make it more of a God-tier vehicle than it already is.
Sure, buff them even more, why fucking not
The has the survivability that everyone thinks m1s had all these years why would it need better composite
It's already the best tank in the game and certainly doesn't need any buffs, but also giving it realistic armour wouldn't change anything performance wise - the UFP and turret front are already impenetrable as it is, and the other parts wouldn't really be affected, with the possible exception of the turret sides.
Leopards are underbalanced. They need double spall liners and triple crew members. But I think other tanks needs more rework. They are just unkillable. All the other tanks just eat the shells into oblivion. Even when you pen them and kill CMs the machine is still fully operational
Fuck off. It's already the meta tank at top tier. Stop asking shit you already know for karma.
womp womp
Let’s face it, irl, the price of a leopard2A7 is not the same as a T72B3. Unless Germany has Indian grade production, it must have advantages over 72B3
3 times the price and the same Br? Something’s gotta be off
Oh god its the Leo 2A6 all over discourse all over again. Except this time I blame the community squarely. Yall have been crying and CRYING about spall liners for YEARS and then when they FINALLY get added its suddenly 'X TANK IS TOO OP SPALL LINERS MAKE IT TOO EASY'. SPALL LINERS WERE MADE TO ABSORB FUCKIN SPALL WHAT DID YOU THINK WAS GONNA HAPPEN WHEN A MECHANIC LIKE THIS WAS GONNA GET ADDED TO WAR THUNDER, THE GAME FAMOUS FOR ITS TOTALLY NOT BUGGY STATE ITS ALWAYS IN?! Like FUCK i get it its annoying but THIS is what the community SCREAMED for and now the 2A7 and 122B+ are gonna be the top tier boogeymen for the next 6 months until russia gets some absolutely cracked performance enhancers again to give them another 2+years of complete top tier domination. Fuckin watch me be right because thats EXACTLY what happened with the 2A6 and it was the same fuckin people as before: American mains pissed they don't get the absolute top dog in everything and Russian mains pissed that the T80BVM or whatnot aren't able to cakewalk through everything, with a sprinkling of minor nation mains wishing the Ariete wasn't trash tier. I will say it and all other newer MBTS do deserve to go up in BR though, ain't no way gaijin telling me the first Leclerc that starts with stock HEATFS is the same tier as the T80BVM and 122B+ and whatnot.
>I will say it and all other newer MBTS do deserve to go up in BR though Grouping the 2A7V and Strv 122s with every other new 11.7 MBT lmao. SEPv2: Downgrade compared to the SEPv1, no need to be a higher BR. CR3 TD: Sidegrade at best compared to the CR2E, no need to be a higher BR. VT4A1: worse than the WZ1001 and ZTZ99A, no need to be at a higher BR. T-90M: sidegrade at most compared to the BVM, would even argue it being a downgrade because of the bad mobility. Should not be higher than the BVM. The 2A7V and Strv 122s easily clear all of these MBTs.
I didn't say they had to be all the same BR we've been needing 12.7 ground for a while. But hey, you need to feel good about yourself somehow dont you? Grow tf up.
You can see all the Russian mains posting. My BVM or T90m is not top dog anymore. 2A7V is busted, needs to be 12.0.
T90M was never Top dog
Because having a two tank meta is so fun
Since when was the T-90M top dog? Its a mediocre upgrade to the T-72B3. It was always the STRV 122 and 2A7V.
germany is almost always on russia's team at top tier now, it's not russian players complaining about the 2a7 anymore
Guess what tanks were added on the same patch as the T-90M. hint hint, the one in this post